Resists, Null's custom versus Classic.

[lethdar]

Currently there's a custom by design resist system in place rather than the original classic most of us knew from classic eq. In fact, looking back upon the reported changes the current resist rates for snare/root seem more in line with the post-PoP resist system overhaul (http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=35253&highlight=more+right+than+wrong).

The purpose of this poll is fairly simple, do you want a classic resist system (disclosure, one I am in favor of, as it doesn't involve getting snare/root mindlessly casted until it sticks and the target dies) or Null's custom resist system where you can be rooted/snared fairly easily even at 150+mr, but seems about right regarding resist rates for Fr/Cr spells (with a few exceptions when i last played... chaotic feedback still resisting at stun line rates rather than nuke line rate? Same with SoL?)

[Rushmore]

I don't know enough to vote in the poll. Why is it a bad thing that a class with snare and root can land snare and root? As a cleric I have the spell root! I land it about 1 out of 10-15 attempts! Why is this bad? What makes the old way better? Give me some examples please.

[gloinz]

new way encourages zerg behavior to mass root and target one person. old way means if ur getting hit you can back off and then only worry about pursuers cutting you off and such, not getting rooted and destroyed in 2 secounds by a wave of zergling melee infantry

plus old way meant u could reliably face 6 people and get away, new way means you had better not let them get the chance to cast a root on u

[Danien]

It's bad because while the spell only lands 1 out of 10-15 attempts its still good enough when it does land to keep spamming it, thus most fights become a rootspam fest. It also makes it much harder then it already is to fight while being outnumbered.

It greatly reduces the art of how to actually kill someone and how fights develop. Right now in groupfights it's almost always "Look for the rooted guy and press autoattack". In classic when somebody landed a dot on you it felt like shit, because even if you could cure it you had to stand still while doing so, which leaves you very vulnerable (Like being rooted does, which you didn't get on live). The classbalance just gets too customized.

[lethdar]

1/10 may not feel so broken from an individual perspective Rushmore, but consider where there's 10 rooting classes in a fight? Every round of spell casting a target will be rooted/snared and that target will be mindlessly killed by a melee assist train.

[SearyxTZ]

I don't know enough to vote in the poll. Why is it a bad thing that a class with snare and root can land snare and root? As a cleric I have the spell root! I land it about 1 out of 10-15 attempts! Why is this bad? What makes the old way better? Give me some examples please.


Sure.

Because in classic, when root/snare were effectively landing ~3% of the time against resist geared players, people *still used them* because landing one CC spell has such a large impact + it's easily spammable due to low mana cost and quick cast times.

EQ PvP was not WoW PvP. It could last a long time, especially in outdoor zones.

Utilizing the environment (ie: jousting, sticking to casters, etc) was a core fundamental of the "skill" involved. It is what made EQ PvP what it was. It's what most players want in a classic EQ PvP server.

On live, no class relied on these spells. It was something maybe you'd throw out as random spam against a lower level player, or something you'd try if you were stacking MR debuffs (tash, malo, etc). It was not bread and butter of PvP though. Group PvP was not root spam + assist training one target (fucking terrible).

In Kunark era, I was 50/50 coin flip against a Druid who could not root me. They can kill well enough with SoW + nukes + Winged Death. The fact that I'm going to have a harder time here as a Monk is sort of depressing to me, as is the fact that I won't be able to 1v5 hit and run (which I also did on live) because I'll be having root spammed on me.


I don't think Null would be adverse to changing it to classic. He just isn't actively involved currently or checking the forums regularly (as of last time I talked to him online). I will try to get him to do us all the favor, but I think even if he does make the change then it has to get pushed through Rogean and patched in.

[Nirgon]

Gosh guys, given all the factors involved I think this could really happen.

(lul no)

[SearyxTZ]

He at least raised it to like ~90% @ 120 MR iirc so 1v1 fights won't be too terrible barring unlucky streaks

group pvp is probably still retarded though


I have yet to get into pvp range aka level 45+ on my monk so I won't comment on it beyond that

[SearyxTZ]

pvp champ gloinz summed up in one sentence here what I took like 9 paragraphs to say


new way encourages zerg behavior to mass root and target one person. old way means if ur getting hit you can back off and then only worry about pursuers cutting you off and such, not getting rooted and destroyed in 2 secounds by a wave of zergling melee infantry

[Loli Pops]

currently there is a thread of neckbeard butthurts mad about memories imagined

mad

[SearyxTZ]

I can't wait.

[tokso]

so if classic resist system is implemented, as an enchanter should I just gate after doing a couple dispels?

[SearyxTZ]

+

tashanian (-39 MR)

Most non-warrior classes running around w/ 80-120 MR unbuffed in resist gear == you can still land stuff

Mythd killed me on TZ using rapture-nuke-rapture-nuke-rapture-nuke. No root required. Rapture being the unresistable mez spell you get at 59. Think there's one in the low 50's too.

You also have charm spells.

[Nirgon]

Early pvp change. All spell debuffs take away 70% more.

[Dullah]

He at least raised it to like ~90% @ 120 MR iirc so 1v1 fights won't be too terrible barring unlucky streaks

group pvp is probably still retarded though


I have yet to get into pvp range aka level 45+ on my monk so I won't comment on it beyond that

There is a bug with root/snare. Think it has something to do with first cast. I get first cast rooted constantly, but once that one is out of the way, its not as bad. Last 4 or 5 times I've pvp'd, I was rooted every time first try with anywhere from 130-170mr.

Even without the bug, classic system was just better hands down for all the reasons you stated.

[Vayder]

I still can't fathom that classic resists worked the way you folks have described. Not saying they didn't cause I wasn't playing pvp then but using the explanation and Lucy data the following would be true:

Immune to Ice Comet at 117cr
Immune to Lava Bolt at 107fr
Immune to Venom of the Snake at 96pr
Immune to Anarchy at 71mr

Was that classic? If not, then your appeal to Lucy is wrong.

[gloinz]

can confirm cleric/enchanter nukes never landed not sure bout all that other stuff

[gloinz]

also can confirm enchanters rly dont need nukes to play i'm sure lethdar would still destroy 3/4 the server without nukes

[Lazortag]

Why is it bad if some spells become useless in pvp? Some spells are next to useless in pve (STR-debuffers, gravity flux, etc.) and we don't change them on the blue server to make them more balanced. Snares/roots/stuns are enormously gamebreaking in pvp and give huge advantages to players who have less experience with classic and are overall worse at the game. Moreover, Null seems to have no problem making whirl resist 100% of the time at a certain MR value, why should it be different for root and snare if that's how it was in classic? When people come to a classic server they expect to be able to reliably use strategies that worked throughout the classic period, like stacking lots of MR to become more or less immune from CC spells in pvp. They also expect that some strategies that didn't work (like spamming root over and over again) will still not work. It frustrates players when they invest a lot of time into a "classic" server only for one aspect of the server to be intentionally not classic.

I mean no respect to Null, he's devoted a lot of his time for this server and his work is great. I just don't see why we are forced to play with a resist system most of us hate because, in his opinion, the classic resist system was unbalanced. It makes no sense to me that a dev can unilaterally remove an important classic feature just because they personally dislike it.

[SearyxTZ]

I still can't fathom that classic resists worked the way you folks have described. Not saying they didn't cause I wasn't playing pvp then but using the explanation and Lucy data the following would be true:

Immune to Ice Comet at 117cr
Immune to Lava Bolt at 107fr
Immune to Venom of the Snake at 96pr
Immune to Anarchy at 71mr

Was that classic? If not, then your appeal to Lucy is wrong.

No. We are talking CC spells only. This does not apply to anything else.

Wizard and Druid nukes still hit me plenty on 120+ FR

[Vayder]

No. We are talking CC spells only. This does not apply to anything else.

Looking at Lucy there is no differentiation between CC spells and others. I originally thought this was a big problem to Nirgon's explanation but after reviewing the spell lines I think it seems ok.

It just makes debuffing all the more important.

Wizards lose out on Ice Comet and others but have lures that will land.
Mage spells all suck unless they Malo first.
Enchanter spells all suck unless they tash first and even then are suspect.
Clerics won't land anything.
Necros have some iffy spells, others that are difficult to resist (Ebolt) and the fire line that's basically unresistable.
Shamans have most of their DOTs very difficult to resist and get a debuff just in case.
Druids fire line is marginal without a debuff but have Winged Death (basically unresistable)

[Kief]

+

tashanian (-39 MR)

Most non-warrior classes running around w/ 80-120 MR unbuffed in resist gear == you can still land stuff

Mythd killed me on TZ using rapture-nuke-rapture-nuke-rapture-nuke. No root required. Rapture being the unresistable mez spell you get at 59. Think there's one in the low 50's too.

You also have charm spells.

Searyx you are from TZ. Mythd did not only mez and nuke, he would literally debuff you to the point of him being able to melee you to death. Tell me you remember this? These people claiming that with classic resists classes are effecitvely "gutted" is absolute down syndrome bull-shit. Classic resists allow actual pvp. Anyone saying different NEVER PLAYED CLASSIC - VELIOUS PVP. HELLO GYLEN GETTING OWNED BY AN ENCHANTER (before primal)....FUCKING RETARDS

[Kief]

Looking at Lucy there is no differentiation between CC spells and others. I originally thought this was a big problem to Nirgon's explanation but after reviewing the spell lines I think it seems ok.

It just makes debuffing all the more important.

Wizards lose out on Ice Comet and others but have lures that will land.
Mage spells all suck unless they Malo first.
Enchanter spells all suck unless they tash first and even then are suspect.
Clerics won't land anything.
Necros have some iffy spells, others that are difficult to resist (Ebolt) and the fire line that's basically unresistable.
Shamans have most of their DOTs very difficult to resist and get a debuff just in case.
Druids fire line is marginal without a debuff but have Winged Death (basically unresistable)

This is correct, Searyx is wrong about the other spells landing "plenty". They would land with PARTIALS, significant PARTIALS. They would also be resisted statically with the resists you have mentioned before (120CR for ice comet resist) etc. Here you have ice comet essentially being a low mana lure that is twice the damage of their kunark lures. Druids spamming starfire that would literally be resisted 90% of the time with 80FR in kunark. Did no one pvp before this EMU server crap?

[Cwall]

calm down pls

[Kief]

Cwall why don't you go suck some more cock? Maybe that will make your reading comprehension up to par and understand that cap locks to emphasize a point does not mean someone needs to calm down.

[SearyxTZ]

Don't sass me bro. When I say nukes landed on 120 FR thats what I meant though. They were almost always partial resists.

If you were running ~120 FR it was a pretty wide spread. I remember outright resists being somewhat rare, but hitting for max/full also being rare. 60 Wizards could still easily kill me before going OOM, even with partials. Warrior/Pally with boss resist gear might have been tougher. That's why they had lures though.


and shamans sure as fuck didn't need an easy resist system to kill anyone. Malo + impossible to kill + pet eating at you + nobody had DR/PR so even though their dot lines were easier to resist they always stuck them anyway.

[Ladytron]

old way was it landed, but seemed to last less and less compaired to the amount of resists you had. so ensnare wouldnt last 20min unless you had 0resists etc. and would sometimes last 2-3seconds with high resists. thats how I remembered it

[Dullah]

I remember resisting roots and snares naked on corpse runs. With mr gear, it never landed without debuffs.

[Nirgon]

Disease/poison wasn't hard to resist consistently around 100. They do an all or nothing check on their initial tick, if it doesn't "land for full" it should not land.

And yes, CCs were resisted differently than direct damage magic lines.

Not that any of this is up for debate/change.

At 170 some FR on live I was laughing pretty hard at direct fire nukes.

[Kief]

Searyx, you dirty faggot I was agreeing with you for the most part, not sassing you. If you had spent more time in school instead of flying across country to lose your virginity to a emotionally defunct transvestite you met in EVERQUEST maybe you would have learned to give props to someone offering you respect. Instead, here you are.

[Smedy]

Resist curve just needs to be bumped, that's basically all, i think it's a matter of a few % here and there to correct the huge issues people are having with roots/snares

Difference between 90% resist and 95% is double the amount of resists.

[SearyxTZ]

Searyx, you dirty faggot I was agreeing with you for the most part, not sassing you. If you had spent more time in school instead of flying across country to lose your virginity to a emotionally defunct transvestite you met in EVERQUEST maybe you would have learned to give props to someone offering you respect. Instead, here you are.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKVYcPJbyAM

[jeffd]

extreme unfriendliness in this thread :<

[Nizzarr]

This is correct, Searyx is wrong about the other spells landing "plenty". They would land with PARTIALS, significant PARTIALS. They would also be resisted statically with the resists you have mentioned before (120CR for ice comet resist) etc. Here you have ice comet essentially being a low mana lure that is twice the damage of their kunark lures. Druids spamming starfire that would literally be resisted 90% of the time with 80FR in kunark. Did no one pvp before this EMU server crap?

I've been saying that shit since this server started.

[Vayder]

Looking at Lucy there is no differentiation between CC spells and others. I originally thought this was a big problem to Nirgon's explanation but after reviewing the spell lines I think it seems ok.

It just makes debuffing all the more important.

Wizards lose out on Ice Comet and others but have lures that will land.
Mage spells all suck unless they Malo first.
Enchanter spells all suck unless they tash first and even then are suspect.
Clerics won't land anything.
Necros have some iffy spells, others that are difficult to resist (Ebolt) and the fire line that's basically unresistable.
Shamans have most of their DOTs very difficult to resist and get a debuff just in case.
Druids fire line is marginal without a debuff but have Winged Death (basically unresistable)

In sum, I'm all for using lucy data for pvpresistcalc, pvpresistbase, pvpresistmax, pvpresistadjust to determine pvp resist system here.

[Nizzarr]

I always remembered disease/poison dots being not that hard to resist either.

Basically what this resist system does is make people really hard to kill with spell damages and hard to CC. We'd see longer fights(3x/4x longer) where skill would shine. This makes melees much more viable and a staple in pvp combat. Levels means a lot more than they do now. A level 60 with minimal resists will resist everything a 52 will throw at him.

This means a lower number force can win against greater odds if they're MUCH better than the opposing force. This isnt possible with the current system because joe blow lvl 44 druid can land root/snares/stuns pretty reliably on a lvl 52.

If I understand it right, a level 60 will also have an easier time landing spells on lower levels.

Basically, this is what everquest live was like.


Question is: is this what we really want?

[Smedy]

That's what i really enjoyed about classic pvp, the fights were so damn long.

The longer the better ^^

[heartbrand]

There's no point in stacking any resist on this server other than MR. The return you get for the gear sacrifice to stack fr or cr or any other just never pays off and you lose a lot of MR so you get rooted and owned. The system is terrible.

[CrystalBlue]

Looking at Lucy there is no differentiation between CC spells and others. I originally thought this was a big problem to Nirgon's explanation but after reviewing the spell lines I think it seems ok.

It just makes debuffing all the more important.

Wizards lose out on Ice Comet and others but have lures that will land.
Mage spells all suck unless they Malo first.
Enchanter spells all suck unless they tash first and even then are suspect.
Clerics won't land anything.
Necros have some iffy spells, others that are difficult to resist (Ebolt) and the fire line that's basically unresistable.
Shamans have most of their DOTs very difficult to resist and get a debuff just in case.
Druids fire line is marginal without a debuff but have Winged Death (basically unresistable)

Yes, this is just what we need on a "pvp" server, to make half of our remaining players useless in PvP.

Think long and hard about what you want. Null's system is balanced. "Classic resists" is far less so.

Have fun when half the casters left on the server quit when they are 100 percent powerless to spell-immune rogues and monks backstabing them for 1k and T-staff procing it up.

Null's system is great, it gives everyone a shot at pvp and not just rogues, warriors, and monks with 100 MR.


It just makes debuffing all the more important.

Under a classic resist system ALL debuffs except the unresistable ones will always be resisted. Cripple, malo line, necro line, etc. What debuffs are we talking about? the weak level 60 ones? Ok maybe. Will drop people from 150MR to 100 MR, and they will still be immune to all magic under a "classic" system.

Debuffs land here now only because of Nulls resist system letting them.

tl;dr: Null's resist system leads to more complex pvp where all classes have a fuller role in the pvp. Classic resists system = spell immune meele assist train x100.

Be very careful what you are asking for, we cant afford to lose 50 casters, then it would just be 20 rogues/monks left playing.

[heartbrand]

I didn't realize this was a custom server based upon balancing EQ PVP. If that's the case when is t staff being removed?

[CrystalBlue]

Let me guess, you are a warrior main and you want to be immune to CC/spells?

Yeah, that will be real good for population.

[Vayder]

Yes, this is just what we need on a "pvp" server, to make half of our remaining players useless in PvP.

This is what I originally thought when I saw Nirgon's explanation. But as I looked at the spell data it became clear that it's not actually the case.

Necro
Lifetaps - essentially unresistable
Fire Line - essentially unresistable
Cessation of Cor - need 197 dr to be immune
Envenomed Bolt - need 175 pr to be immune
Scent of Terris - need 181 pr to be immune

Shaman
Malo - unresistable
Bane of Nife - 197pr to be immune
Pox of Bertox - 197dr to be immune

Wizard
Lures - essentially unresistable

Magician
Mala - unresistable
Malosini - 197mr to be immune

Enchanter
Tashanian - unresistable
Rapture - essentially unresistable
Asphyxiate - 197mr to be immune
Largarn's Lamentation - 197mr to be immune
Cripple - 181 mr to be immune

Druid
Winged Death - essentially unresistable
Breath of Ro - 181 fr to be immune


Under a classic resist system ALL debuffs except the unresistable ones will always be resisted. Cripple, malo line, necro line, etc. What debuffs are we talking about? the weak level 60 ones? Ok maybe. Will drop people from 150MR to 100 MR, and they will still be immune to all magic under a "classic" system.

Debuffs land here now only because of Nulls resist system letting them.


Using Lucy data you can see that tash, cripple, mala, malo, and necro line will all be landing.

Honestly, using Lucy data seems the best way to go to me.

[CrystalBlue]

Early pvp change. All spell debuffs take away 70% more.

I do belive it was 50 percent more and it did not happen until at least SZ was around.

[CrystalBlue]

But as I looked at the spell data it became clear that it's not actually the case.



I dont trust any of that spell data on Lucy in regards to what was "classic" spell resists.

Any classic pvper will tell you what classic spell resist pvp was all about. It was all about spells that were impossible to resist (rapture, lifetaps, lures, healing, dispel,pets, etc) and melee.

The question is, and Null answered it for us months and months ago in the form of his custom resist system, is that what is best for this server?

I far prefer what Null has done to what it was like in "classic" pvp. Because remember this too: We all know what is up now. Prepare for nothing but monks with t-staff and rogues with ragebringer owning all if you guys DO succeed in trolling null/nilbog into making it like the bad old days here.

Wizards already have ZERO chance vs. certain melees. (and im talking end game where "pvp happens" and what you all are rushing to get to as fast as you can, please leave out the qeynos noob yard battles).

Bring in anything close to "classic" pvp resists, and then expand that uselessness to most other casters. Then watch them quit because they do not have it in them to level a monk to 60 to join in on the tstaff party.

THINK about what you guys are asking for.

Null: you did a good job, dont let them troll you. You brought a complexity to pvp that did not exist before. Its nice that spells like Cripple, malosnia (the resistable kind..) , etc. have an actual use in pvp. Thanks for helping me to be something other then a one trick rapture bot so I can continue to play and enjoy pvp.

All you rogues and monks out there: How dare you ask to be CC immune ontop of already being grossly overpowered. 1k double backstabs and chain t-staff procs are not enough?

[Nirgon]

It's 70 without me even looking, go dig through patch notes. I'm done with that for a while until my existing stuff's bumped off the pile.

[bamzal]

with the huge RNG factor for resisting CC spells on this server, the strategy in any situation becomes 'spam cc spells' instead of use tactics/strategies/skills that you learned/developed/used on live (like jousting for example). creating a truly un-classic experience

in live a player could take on a group, and a group could take on a raid. Here they just get spam root/snare and zergged down. completely different game requiring no skill like it did on live, catering to the zerg bluebie armies

Ah classic resists, that would be nice

this server caters to zergs and there is no skill required in pvp. doomed from the start. Null - fix resists. What makes you think that you can add a custom mechanic into the server when everyone else on the project is trying to make this classic.

classic eq pvp wasnt about getting rooted or snared or hit by anything magic base. there were whole other aspects that required entirely different skillset that is nonexistant here. not classic

Even though they call this classic, its not. Its custom and its shitty. LoZ on the other hand is custom, and its fun.

If you are stuck playing custom, then why play shit, when you can have fun?

please make resists classic and i will log in. that means not being stunned and rooted. period.

Resist Feedback post 11/6/2011 - 18/6/2012
still bad and non-classic

^derp
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/history/patches.html

This thread is spiralling outta control. So much fail on one page.
It's clear certain players & developers have no interest in a classic experience, even though this is advertised as classic (boggling???), so im just done arguing.
Peace

Zereh, Sirken, and any other moran still wondering:

The question being asked by the OP is NOT: "Heres why resists suck so bad.." OR "Why do resists suck so bad?" OR "Heres how you fix resists"

The question being asked IS: "Why are we implementing this SHITTY CUSTOM resist system, on a CLASSIC server?"

Please stay on topic, you fucking morans

Apple you're gonna get a kick outta this one...

http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/showpost.php?p=853&postcount=7
http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/showthread.php?t=103

06-05-2000, 04:55 PM

^ Thanks for helping me prove my point Neolm, such a relevant post.

This is just a drop in the bucket as to how game-breaking/altering the spell resist mechanics are. This is suppose to be a classic server, but this single non-classic mechanic is affecting entirely all other aspects of the server, giving the overall experience a feel of a custom server (with shitty pvp).

Anyone remember a pvp tactic called jousting??? Obvously Null DID NOT.

[03-02-2001] http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/showpost.php?p=70711&postcount=3
First, dont lvl. Clerics stink at pvp at higher lvls.
Use furor to inturrupt others spells.
All magic based spells (root/blind/stun) are good up to about lvl 35 then many people have the magic resist to pretty much resist all those.
PvP in a group, solo you will stink at mid to higher lvls
There are lots of tactics, just think defense...

[03-08-2001] http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/showpost.php?p=70715&postcount=7
I'm level 49 and I've learned I can only land one spell: cancel magic. Anything else and you're going to be wasting your time on a red server. Blue servers will tell you to use this or that nuke and stun because all the do is duel and people on blue servers have horrible MR. The only stun I even consider loading is the level 1 stun, just to interrupt a cast if I think I can. All the others stun and do damage, giving them 2 sv magic checks, thus making them twice as likely to be resisted.


Null, enough with the custom bullshit. Enough tweaking this and tweaking that. Do work son. Get it right, once and for all. You alone are driving people away.

Just want classic, classic is not getting perma stunned and raped by clerics. Clerics shouldn't be able land their magic based spells in high level pvp with 100+ MR.

PEOPLE WILL ACTUALLY PVP IF THEY ARE NOT GOING TO JUST GET ROOTED AND ZERGGED DOWN. YOUR CUSTOM RESISTS ALREADY CHASED ALL THE DIEHARD PVPERS AWAY. CLASSIC PVPERS CAME HERE TO EXPERIENCE PVP AS IT WAS IN 1999, JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER ASPECT OF PROJECT 1999. HOWEVER YOUR CUSTOM RESIST SYSTEM IS COMPLETELY GAME-BREAKING, NO ONE REMEMBERD IT THAT WAY, NO ONE WANTS TO PLAY IT THAT WAY. JUST STICK TO MAKING THINGS CLASSIC, ESPECIALLY RESISTS.

IF YOU WANT TO GO MAKE SOMETHING CUSTOM, GO DECORATE A HOUSE IN FREEPORT.

resists are so messed up thats pretty much the only thing making the server utterly broken when it comes to pvp, turning any classic PvPer away (who made it above 20)

Resist Feedback post 11/6/2011 - 19/4/2012 (RIP): THEY BLOW!!! FIX!!! PLZ MAKE IT CLASSIC LIKE YOU NORMALLY DO!!!

How did they think up resists here? They strive for a truly classic experience, and then custom resists? WTF!!!!

Yeah but don't you know? Null had this great system he devloped in his spare time

Next time do your homework Null... You ruined this server.

just fix resist already. no need for some shitty custom resist system. Make it classic alreay! I never got rooted blind stunned snared etc

Won't be logging back in until I am unrootable/usnarable/unstunnable.

don't forget the shitty resist code that needs a mentioning

just take root and snare out of the game altogether. That would be a more classic feel to be honest

shits fucked cry wolf chain casting root gg

This thread is so fail

You think the P1999 developers care about how you think non-classic spell mechanics should work? They are focused on recreating an experience as it was in 1999.

If you don't remember, on live they were always making changes to the PvP mechanics.

All this talk about Kunark and Velious does not matter right now, so just save it for when it does matter.

If you started playing after Kunark you should not be posting. If you only played emulator pvp you should definitely not be posting.

The P1999 developers probably don't want to hear all your theories about how PvP spell mechanics should work, considering it is evident that most of your experiences are far from classic.

Stop wasting everyones time creating false recollections of the truth when the facts are out there.

Example:
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/hist...ches-1999.html


Quote:
------------------------------
September 13, 1999
------------------------------
PVP Changes:
- In order to make PVP combat between spellcasters and melee types more
viable some changes to PVP spell effects have been made. All damage
spells cast in PVP combat will do less damage to the PC than the same
spell would do to an NPC. When a PC is under the effect of a root-type
spell there is a 20% chance that they will break free when a direct
damage spell is cast upon them.


So cut the BS. Help Red99 by getting real facts so they can develop it.

[Nirgon]

I always remembered disease/poison dots being not that hard to resist either.

Basically what this resist system does is make people really hard to kill with spell damages and hard to CC. We'd see longer fights(3x/4x longer) where skill would shine. This makes melees much more viable and a staple in pvp combat. Levels means a lot more than they do now. A level 60 with minimal resists will resist everything a 52 will throw at him.

This means a lower number force can win against greater odds if they're MUCH better than the opposing force. This isnt possible with the current system because joe blow lvl 44 druid can land root/snares/stuns pretty reliably on a lvl 52.

If I understand it right, a level 60 will also have an easier time landing spells on lower levels.

Basically, this is what everquest live was like.


Question is: is this what we really want?

You know Nizzar's been showing up to class lately with his homework done. Poison and disease WERE easy to resist. I'd say with just resistant skin, a rune scale cloak and DMF up on a wizard that should be enough to resist 90% of envenomed bolts casted.

There's a reason shaman dots stacked and disease was prevalent, thank god that's been addressed here and boy did it take some teeth pulling. Insidious decay -> dispell them/heal yourself, dispel your pet if rooted. Dispelled people and scrubs were still highly suspect to taking a "game ender" envenomed bolt. A self buffed caster has pretty much lost a fight where EB lands without cure pots.

Trollborn seems to like this system everyone hates and complains about, he also wants xp gone.

I want the xp gone too, but, I know MANY PEOPLE would leave the box. I also know people sent me tells while playing to keep pushing for resist fixes etc who are no longer here.

People here don't dispel and think resists are fine. Guess what? NOPE.

People think whirl and stun are "balanced" mechanics. Oh fucking really? Lol, I watched a green con basilisk chain stun a 130 magic resist buffed 50 necromancer here. I mean are you serious? People have this kind of stuff happen and just see this as another VZTZ box with slower xp. I can't think of one EQEmu server that has gotten resists anywhere close to right, though this one is right about there in terms of FR/CR.

If Nilbog or Darth Rogean want to have the sit down talk about resist rates, I am happy to go through EVERY aspect of it with them.

Star Wars sucks and being a lime light EQEmu developer is >.

[CrystalBlue]

You have not logged on since they nerfed your Ice Comet to do 66% pvp damage from the previous 80 percent.

Same as Darwoth who left without a trace when they stopped allowing him to recharge his insta gate halfling hats.

Re: Bamzal, good post. Almost everything you said is why we desperatly need to keep Null's custom resist system in. We cant afford for all those potentialy nerfed into the ground classes (in pvp) to quit the box.

All I see is people who want to pvp solo without a risk of dieing. At the expense of half the server's classes being made useless in pvp and at the abject mercy of CC immune rogues/monks/etc.

p.s. pvp debuffs had a 50 percent bonus attached to them, not 70 percent. I wonder what else you were wrong about Nirgon................

[heartbrand]

Why don't you just post as Tr0llb0rn instead of making a fake second account?

[bamzal]

i never would have thought that an everquest pvp server would digress into using 'Blind' as a valid tactic.

[Nirgon]

You have not logged on since they nerfed your Ice Comet to do 66% pvp damage from the previous 80 percent.


Considering I was, nice troll :), it rustled my jimmies a little.

2001 change that was a smart addition:

- Resist-debuffs will do 1.5 times their normal value for PvP
encounters. In other words, if the spell did -60MR in PvP before, it
does -90MR in PvP now. PvE (combat versus NPCs) remains unaffected.


But I wouldn't put it in here until other things are fixed.

[Vayder]

I dont trust any of that spell data on Lucy in regards to what was "classic" spell resists.

I don't think you understand what I'm making the case for. I'm saying I believe the best solution is to use current Lucy data for all classic spells.

[CrystalBlue]

It's 70 without me even looking, go dig through patch notes. I'm done with that for a while until my existing stuff's bumped off the pile.

like I said, 50 percent, not 70.


Considering I was, nice troll :), it rustled my jimmies a little.

2001 change that was a smart addition:


- Resist-debuffs will do 1.5 times their normal value for PvP
encounters. In other words, if the spell did -60MR in PvP before, it
does -90MR in PvP now. PvE (combat versus NPCs) remains unaffected.

But I wouldn't put it in here until other things are fixed.

CrystalBlue is a classic pvp Enchantress.

[Nirgon]

But I did log in after the spells nerfs, for quite some time.

It wasn't until rule flipping to screw us by a certain other ruinous element was removed.

[lethdar]

I still can't fathom that classic resists worked the way you folks have described. Not saying they didn't cause I wasn't playing pvp then but using the explanation and Lucy data the following would be true:

Immune to Ice Comet at 117cr
Immune to Lava Bolt at 107fr
Immune to Venom of the Snake at 96pr
Immune to Anarchy at 71mr

Was that classic? If not, then your appeal to Lucy is wrong.

Unsure of where people started citing lucy for resist % rate, but just looking at this anyone who played classic knows this is hillariously wrong. 107/117 did not ever make you immune to non stun linked nukes. Unless you were a bard rolling around with resist songs you would rarely ever full resist a nuke (unless it was an enchanter/cleric nuke above level 20, furor and chaotic feedback (as well as shock of lightning with its knockback) seemed to be included in the normal resist nuke resist code).

just a quick FYI, not reading whole thread need to go out and hit up the bars pals.

And to morons who believe enchanters are bad in pvp if they can't land nukes... I'm too busy to type out an adequate insult to capture your extreme stupidity.

[SearyxTZ]

FREE NIRGON

[heartbrand]

Why was nirgon banned? Not seeing the post?

[Amuk]

Cant imagine why people arnt playing here, I have only been raging about this since beta - here we are in kunark and its still custom bullshit.

Fuck the blueb zerg shitty fake low pop wanna be pvp server - you can keep it, and fuck loz also.

[bamzal]

so when does this classic pvp server come out? red99 not classic

[Tecmos Deception]

plus old way meant u could reliably face 6 people and get away, new way means you had better not let them get the chance to cast a root on u

You're supposed to be able to reliably escape a 6v1?

No wonder so many people think EQ PvP is retarded.

[Dullah]

On live, if you have 150mr unbuffed, and the 6 don't have a bard, yes. Here with 150mr, you're rooted in under 5 seconds and its gg.

[Cancerface]

i always enjoyed when lethdar would talk of his world travels on ventrilo, but in my heart of hearts i always knew he was full of shit and a mouth breathing weirdo who jumped from internet server to server. enjoy your gout you fat fuck.

[Cwall]

cface pls calm down

pls

[mostbitter]

The resist system is terrible. I see trollborn telling people that this would have a negative impact in casters as if that is a bad thing. This server desperately needs a reason for people to roll melee. Red Dawn has typically got 25+ people on now, and 3 of them are melee. It's pretty black and white to me that this "balanced system" is favorable to casters.

[Nirgon]

This server needs a touch of classic in its pvp category for sure. Whenever Nilbog or another active developer says they are ready to devote time to it, I will create a list of mechanics that need work along with projected resist rates, spell by spell. Troll all you want! Here's some topics: "Nirgon doesn't play here!" "Nirgon plays a wizard!".

But right now its love it or leave it.

I'll just say also that if root and snare are brought in line, that item loot isn't only a caster's paradise. I almost instantly lost a mana robe in plane of mischief to the rogue botb winner. Here's a fun fact of relevance for people who can't read into situations, he wasn't wearing tons of fancy droppables.

Droppable resist gear in a classic environment is a huge luxury and advantage that you should risk. It makes the system work, it creates something for non raiders to fight for in terms of acquiring shit too.

[mostbitter]

People might be more inclined to take what you say into consideration if you don't make it to obvious that your goal in helping is a selfish desire to push item loot

[Nirgon]

I'm always going to note item loot in things that this server needs or when classic EQ PvP is mentioned.

Single item loot was awesome on Rallos. I think "go play WoW" gets thrown around here QUITE A BIT, that's how I feel about no item loot!

But I get the feeling people want the easy shit so they can claim skill as Classic EQ, see existing bugs being defended etc. Pretty embarassing.

[heartbrand]

I'm always going to note item loot in things that this server needs or when classic EQ PvP is mentioned.

Single item loot was awesome on Rallos. I think "go play WoW" gets thrown around here QUITE A BIT, that's how I feel about no item loot!

But I get the feeling people want the easy shit so they can claim skill as Classic EQ, see existing bugs being defended etc. Pretty embarassing.

Item loot would kill this server. It is literally the worst possible idea and would kill the population overnight more so than any other change, even more so than disabling PVP.

[Nirgon]

With fixed resists? I think you could get used to pvping in no drop, esp on that Checkraise warrior.

Some people (not Heartbrand, or maybe but not directly pointed at him at least) say they want more PvP, but what they really mean is more raiding guilds that are under them. Which is pretty stupid. If you want PvP, give people something to come to the server and try to take (without 80 people with full resist gear).

Sounds like scared in my book.

Classic elements be damned, moving on!

[Dullah]

And to morons who believe enchanters are bad in pvp if they can't land nukes... I'm too busy to type out an adequate insult to capture your extreme stupidity.

[mostbitter]

you must not mind being over looked. keep clutching that dream if it keeps you warm i guess.

[SamwiseBanned]

Maybe resists need a LITTLE tweaking but lol on the first cast posts. I remember first casting Nizzar once but that's it. Ive never landed a root on wakawaka, teruoh, ect. Landed a root on Batlle on e after i dispelled his mr buff. Even I barely got first casted with my 50 or so mr. first cast happens. As far as item loot, just lol

[Dullah]

Maybe resists need a LITTLE tweaking but lol on the first cast posts. I remember first casting Nizzar once but that's it. Ive never landed a root on wakawaka, teruoh, ect. Landed a root on Batlle on e after i dispelled his mr buff. Even I barely got first casted with my 50 or so mr. first cast happens. As far as item loot, just lol


You first (maybe 2nd?) casted me in solb soon as I zoned in with 120+mr. If thats not bad enough, you were around 8 levels under me. I got first casted with 171 last week by someone 4 levels under me. 171 first cast is my record in the last week, but I've had several 140s, 130s and numerous in betweens in the last month.

[SamwiseBanned]

I think you guys been playing garbage boxes so much that you've forgotten actual classic pvP. you are used to 10 v 10 boxing enabled battles, not 15v15+ individuals on vent coordinating cc. If you think you should be immune to 6 people chain rooting you then sorry, maybe a low level twink would be better suited for your ez mode playstyle

[SamwiseBanned]

I don't recall rooting destin. I typical just nuke wizards

[SamwiseBanned]

When I said little tweak I was referring to level range. I had a lvl 16 sk land everything on me with 35 mr. I am 100% sure level range is not being factored in and yes I reported it. I was 45 at the time.

[SamwiseBanned]

All I'm saying is thAt it's not as bad as people make it seem. In a 1v1 situation root isn't really the deciding factor seeing as how it can easily be pumiced off just as fast as it can be casted and you'll resist most roots with 70-90 mr

[Amuk]

I think you guys been playing garbage boxes so much that you've forgotten actual classic pvP. you are used to 10 v 10 boxing enabled battles, not 15v15+ individuals on vent coordinating cc. If you think you should be immune to 6 people chain rooting you then sorry, maybe a low level twink would be better suited for your ez mode playstyle

Most epic quote on forums to date. God this community/GM's are retards LOL.

[heartbrand]

MR did make you immune on live, whether that's a good thing or a bad thing, that's up for debate. Personally, I think the return on investment for resist gear for damaging spells is not worth it, for CC it should be like on live.

Though I do agree, it's funny seeing a lot these VZTZ legends who know nothing of PVE except what they've seen on their boxes be flummoxed repeatedly by classic EQ encounters, and then having the audacity to say "this encounter isn't classic!" lol

[SamwiseBanned]

Dullah, log on with your 170 mr and tell me how many roots land out of 20. I don't care about first, second, third cast and neither does the math involved. Just gimme some real numbers to work with. Right now the arguement from both sides has been "in my experience" including myself. In my experience, more than half if not more of my roots have ever landed, against Nihilum I'd say 1/5th of all my roots have landed. Again the 1/5 ratio is on the top of my head so i could be wrong.

in fact all of you in favor of changing the resist system should be taking pics of you level and mr with one of your chat boxes showing 20 or so roots casted in a row by someone of similiar level. I know Null has that root parser thingamagic but maybe that thing isnt right. Let's put some actual SS of proof up so we can get the facts straights.

[Dullah]

At 120 I was getting rooted about 1 out of 7 with an even con. Sort of moot though when in pvp it doesn't seem to apply for that first cast when you enter a zone. With two people casting, that means you're rooted in a matter of seconds. A pure melee has no chance to pumice if someone is hitting them with 0 channeling. Thats basically good game for something that takes 1% of your mana bar and a matter of a few seconds.

I wasn't playing Destin at the time btw.

[SamwiseBanned]

At 120 I was getting rooted about 1 out of 7 with an even con. Sort of moot though when in pvp it doesn't seem to apply for that first cast when you enter a zone. With two people casting, that means you're rooted in a matter of seconds. A pure melee has no chance to pumice if someone is hitting them with 0 channeling. Thats basically good game for something that takes 1% of your mana bar and a matter of a few seconds.

I wasn't playing Destin at the time btw.

not calling you a liar i just think that SS proof will be better than recollections of the events. I logged on to test it for the discussion. I am going to post my results even thought my first batch of tests doesnt help my case. Casted root/snare on myself 10 times (yes i know this is not enought) with 32 MR then 72 MR. here are the SS.

First test, grasping root with 32 MR then 72 MR. oddly I resisted root more with lower MR lol. Anyhow i'll still post. EDIT: 2nd screenshot should read 4/10 resisted not landed.

http://i.imgur.com/SzlLE.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/MtZYk.jpg

Second test, snare with 32 mr then 72 mr. clearly helped, at 72 mr was almost immune to snare. EDI: first SS should say 4/10 resisted not landed :(

http://i.imgur.com/hgZYW.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/QZnhe.jpg

Last test i went back to grasping root, again first with 32 mr then 72. These results made a little more sense.

http://i.imgur.com/QvYuy.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/jzrcm.jpg

I was casting on myself so this could be issue if somehow the resist check is different when casting on self. at least this ensure even level range.

Wish I had MR gear to test out 100+ mr :)

[SamwiseBanned]

in summary:

Grasping root at 32 MR
5/10 resisted then 6/10 resisted

Grasping root at 72 MR
4/10 resisted then 8/10 resisted

Snare at 32 MR
4/10 resisted

Snare at 72 MR
9/10 resisted

Not shown but tested, another 20 grasping roots with 72 mr
13/20 resisted

[Dullah]

My tests were over 100+ casts. 10 casts is not even close to a legitimate sample size. 100 isn't even, but it gives you a general idea.

[SamwiseBanned]

i know it small, wish i had more time and more mr to test. I am pretty confident that first cast has the same resist check as any other cast. It doesn't make sense for it to be different.

[Yukahwa]

Pro test Samwise, 10 casts beats the zero casts shown by other folks. Definitely need to see more proofs.

Maybe the nulls custom system is just a /random so we're all perplexed haha..turns out resist gear has no bearing. I have a guy with 200 dex and root lands 0/10 times so I think thats the secret.

[Dullah]

Null has already shown the graphs. Its not exactly mysterious if you look up his posts. Its just not classic, or balanced in any way. Having the ability to CC someone with MR in literally every slot is ridiculous.

[SamwiseBanned]

Null has already shown the graphs. Its not exactly mysterious if you look up his posts. Its just not classic, or balanced in any way. Having the ability to CC someone with MR in literally every slot is ridiculous.

may not be classic but a melee immune to CC sounds pretty imba. I've rooted Nizzar several times, yet he doesn't seem to complain much about resists. EQ PvP centers around group PvP. Whereas your opponent is under the same MR rules as you so how can it be imbalanced? I think creating invincible melee will be a bad thing for the server, sure it'll benefit the melee ganker but I see less tactics involved in PvP with no CC.

EDIT: maybe im nub but most of the group pvp ive been involved with has been "FF the clerics/chanters/wizards" so not sure how you are getting rooted right off the bat. sounds like you are running into groups thinking you should be immune to 6 people ability to stop you from emo diving into the casters then plugging your way out of death.

[SamwiseBanned]

From the VZ 60 Cap Rogue on the safehouse.

http://www.thesafehouse.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2872

"Recommended Resists by Order of Importance:
1. Magic: 160-180+ (minimum 140) At this level it is exceedingly rare to be snared/rooted but it occasionally happens when tashed/maloed. Most magic DDs will be resisted totally or partially. Normal mezzes should be resisted.
2. Heat: 140-180+ (minimum 120) Many classes use fire, and it hits hard.
3. Disease: 130-160+ (minimum 100) Most useful against Pox of Bertoxxulous. Pox will stick a good bit at 80 and the surrounding range. Insidious Malady is highly difficult to resist and will decrease disease resist by a lot. It takes 2 charges of SHM cure disease potion to cure and is fast casting. PoB takes 2 charges as well.
3. Poison: 120-140+ (minimum 100) Most useful vs. Envenomed Bolt (ebolt) and Bane of Nife. Same success rate as PoB, perhaps a little lower.
3. Cold: 120-140+ (minimum 100) Not used very much. Shaman nukes and bracer mostly, occasionally druid, rarely wizard. "

this guy ran around with 140 minimum but suggests up to 180+, his guide is huge and a good read. I actually linked it when i first started playing but noone commented. anyhow his suggestions seem to fall in line with what is needed here to be safe from CC.

[Yukahwa]

Pretty good post there. It does seem like MR should be more effective against CC spells. On live during kunark and velious, I remember 100 being considered pretty much fine and dandy for good pvp action at low levels, and the above for higher levels.

[Kevynne]

Pretty good post there. It does seem like MR should be more effective against CC spells. On live during kunark and velious, I remember 100 being considered pretty much fine and dandy for good pvp action at low levels, and the above for higher levels.

[SamwiseBanned]

160-180+ mr to be safe from CC from 1v1, the guide was written as you are fighting each class 1v1. ofc if there is multiple casters, which is what Dullah was complaining about, then the chances of being rooted are a lot higher.

[SamwiseBanned]

Here is a chart for 'Root'. You can ignore the low and high partial lines, since they don't have any bearing on roots.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7751891/root_chart.jpg

And here is the results of 20,000 simulated casts against 120MR:

Spell Name: Root Resist Mod: 25
Casts: 20000 Full Hits: 0 Partials 2305 Resists: 17695
Resists Percent: 88.47% Average Partial: 38.18
Average Damage: 0.00

almost 90% chance to resist root (any root) at 120 mr. so 1/10 will stick, so ofc 2-3 casters will land a root after a few tries. not sure what is going on at 170 mr unless you are trying to solo gank an entire group of casters. so the safehouse posts recommends 160-180+ mr, this chart looks like at 180 MR you become immune to root. seems fair and balanced.

[notCwall]

with the amount of gear required to pvp effectively at all, combined with the amount of time required to level/get said gear, no sane/employed person will play a melee on this server

[Dullah]

From the VZ 60 Cap Rogue on the safehouse.

http://www.thesafehouse.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2872

"Recommended Resists by Order of Importance:
1. Magic: 160-180+ (minimum 140) At this level it is exceedingly rare to be snared/rooted but it occasionally happens when tashed/maloed. Most magic DDs will be resisted totally or partially. Normal mezzes should be resisted.
2. Heat: 140-180+ (minimum 120) Many classes use fire, and it hits hard.
3. Disease: 130-160+ (minimum 100) Most useful against Pox of Bertoxxulous. Pox will stick a good bit at 80 and the surrounding range. Insidious Malady is highly difficult to resist and will decrease disease resist by a lot. It takes 2 charges of SHM cure disease potion to cure and is fast casting. PoB takes 2 charges as well.
3. Poison: 120-140+ (minimum 100) Most useful vs. Envenomed Bolt (ebolt) and Bane of Nife. Same success rate as PoB, perhaps a little lower.
3. Cold: 120-140+ (minimum 100) Not used very much. Shaman nukes and bracer mostly, occasionally druid, rarely wizard. "

this guy ran around with 140 minimum but suggests up to 180+, his guide is huge and a good read. I actually linked it when i first started playing but noone commented. anyhow his suggestions seem to fall in line with what is needed here to be safe from CC.
After luclin.

Everything changed after velious.

As someone who played thru velious, I know that prior to debuff changes, you never needed more than 120mr.

To get my mr just to 140, I sacrifice over 50 str, and over 250 HP on my melee. My average dps is much much lower. Even at 60, my hp isn't even over 1500 in pvp gear...

[Hailto]

Yo Samwise, what Vert mod are you using to have the big HP and Mana numbers visible?

[SamwiseBanned]

After luclin.

Everything changed after velious.

As someone who played thru velious, I know that prior to debuff changes, you never needed more than 120mr.

To get my mr just to 140, I sacrifice over 50 str, and over 250 HP on my melee. My average dps is much much lower. Even at 60, my hp isn't even over 1500 in pvp gear...

being able to resist 9/10 roots at 120 mr seems fair enough. in a 1v1 situation that sounds hella good for you. by the time a caster gets a root off youll have already backstabbed him twice. also in a 1v1 against a caster, 0 channeling shouldnt matter. ive had melees pumice thru my melee attacks, without slam/bash you are good to go. whats the problem with these numbers? yes you sacrifice gear but being almost immune to CC > 50 str.

[SamwiseBanned]

Yo Samwise, what Vert mod are you using to have the big HP and Mana numbers visible?

duxaUI, there is a post about it somewhere. i just downloaded the UI not the installer.

[Hailto]

duxaUI, there is a post about it somewhere. i just downloaded the UI not the installer.

Thanks dawg

[Dullah]

being able to resist 9/10 roots at 120 mr seems fair enough. in a 1v1 situation that sounds hella good for you. by the time a caster gets a root off youll have already backstabbed him twice. also in a 1v1 against a caster, 0 channeling shouldnt matter. ive had melees pumice thru my melee attacks, without slam/bash you are good to go. whats the problem with these numbers? yes you sacrifice gear but being almost immune to CC > 50 str.

9 out of 10 is hypothetical. In actual pvp, I've never resisted more then 3 or 4 in a row before root/snare with 120+ mr. I check every log, esp when im rooted. In a few tests, it did average out to 1 root out of 6 or 7 but that doesn't include that magical first root that lands so often upon zoning in.

Not acceptable. Its pretty much unanimous. Those in favor of the present UNCLASSIC resists include one person that plays a few days every other month. One thats anonymous...

[SamwiseBanned]

9 out of 10 is hypothetical. In actual pvp, I've never resisted more then 3 or 4 in a row before root/snare with 120+ mr. I check every log, esp when im rooted. In a few tests, it did average out to 1 root out of 6 or 7 but that doesn't include that magical first root that lands so often upon zoning in.

Not acceptable. Its pretty much unanimous. Those in favor of the present UNCLASSIC resists include one person that plays a few days every other month. One thats anonymous...

Who is to say classic resists werent fucked up to begin with? I remember fear and charm working at some point, obv shit was screwed up and it was changed. I do not see the disadvantage of the current system if it affects everyone. I see that Null is trying to fine tune the resist system for real balance. Let's face it, eq devs didnt care about balance (pvp) hence why things like manaburn and shit existed. lol what a joke to run around and insta kill people. also Fast forward to now, 13 years later when everyone knows what to do, what to wear, where to get it, blah blah blah. getting 120+ mr is easily obtainable now a days. it's not like back in the day when people didnt share info, wikis werent available, ect. So Null makes it more challenging to be invincible, sounds like a good thing. Having to shave off 50 str in order to dodge 85% of the roots thrown at you sounds like a fair trade off.

[SamwiseBanned]

also i would like to see SS of you getting rooted 1 in 7 or whatnot at 140 mr.

[Dullah]

Yes, I still play here.

Assuming that "resists were fucked up" is just a stupid assumption. Though some mechanics changed in pvp, most things like the way magic resist worked was quite consistent up to Luclin. Only after EQ was vastly changed by the new Sony EQ team (most here feel for the worse), were resists changed.

[SamwiseBanned]

From the VZ 60 Cap Rogue on the safehouse.

http://www.thesafehouse.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2872

"Recommended Resists by Order of Importance:
1. Magic: 160-180+ (minimum 140) At this level it is exceedingly rare to be snared/rooted but it occasionally happens when tashed/maloed. Most magic DDs will be resisted totally or partially. Normal mezzes should be resisted.
2. Heat: 140-180+ (minimum 120) Many classes use fire, and it hits hard.
3. Disease: 130-160+ (minimum 100) Most useful against Pox of Bertoxxulous. Pox will stick a good bit at 80 and the surrounding range. Insidious Malady is highly difficult to resist and will decrease disease resist by a lot. It takes 2 charges of SHM cure disease potion to cure and is fast casting. PoB takes 2 charges as well.
3. Poison: 120-140+ (minimum 100) Most useful vs. Envenomed Bolt (ebolt) and Bane of Nife. Same success rate as PoB, perhaps a little lower.
3. Cold: 120-140+ (minimum 100) Not used very much. Shaman nukes and bracer mostly, occasionally druid, rarely wizard. "

this guy ran around with 140 minimum but suggests up to 180+, his guide is huge and a good read. I actually linked it when i first started playing but noone commented. anyhow his suggestions seem to fall in line with what is needed here to be safe from CC.

Why would this guy say 140 mr minimum. Hmmmm he must have played a diff eq than dullah during 60 cap

[mostbitter]

I played during the 60 cap and as a shadow knight i stopped at 115 mr because that was all i needed to resist all roots/snares. I guess no one will believe me since I didn't make an allah post I could use to defend myself 12 years down the line.

[SamwiseBanned]

I played during the 60 cap and as a shadow knight i stopped at 115 mr because that was all i needed to resist all roots/snares. I guess no one will believe me since I didn't make an allah post I could use to defend myself 12 years down the line.

exactly, your memory is shit. please provide evidence to support your claim. thanks.

[Dullah]

Finding people making foolish unfounded statements != evidence of anything except their ignorance. Only proves you are completely ignorant of how EQ worked then, and should work now. The only thing worse than your trollin' skills is your ability to run a guild.

[heartbrand]

I played during the 60 cap and as a shadow knight i stopped at 115 mr because that was all i needed to resist all roots/snares. I guess no one will believe me since I didn't make an allah post I could use to defend myself 12 years down the line.

LOL'ed really hard @ this

[bamzal]

ya casting on yourself is definitly different, it doesnt even take player damage reductions into consideration

[bamzal]

exactly, your memory is shit. please provide evidence to support your claim. thanks.

There is enough proof around and enough classic players to know you didnt get rooted or snared in high level classic pvp.
Null knows this. He just wants a custom system. For some stupid ass reason

[CrystalBlue]

there is enough proof around and classic players to know you didnt get rooted or snared in high level classic pvp.

who cares, that was not what was promised as far as the pvp goes. Fuk them bad old days when more then half the classes becamse 100 percent useless free kills in end game pvp.

please see:

What's funny is that you guys seem to think we were going to strictly adhere to 'classic' for the pvp server. On the contrary we would like to make it somewhat interesting and fun for everyone. Call it Custom Classic if you want, I don't give a shit.

[bamzal]

may not be classic but a melee immune to CC sounds pretty imba. I've rooted Nizzar several times, yet he doesn't seem to complain much about resists. EQ PvP centers around group PvP. Whereas your opponent is under the same MR rules as you so how can it be imbalanced? I think creating invincible melee will be a bad thing for the server, sure it'll benefit the melee ganker but I see less tactics involved in PvP with no CC.

EDIT: maybe im nub but most of the group pvp ive been involved with has been "FF the clerics/chanters/wizards" so not sure how you are getting rooted right off the bat. sounds like you are running into groups thinking you should be immune to 6 people ability to stop you from emo diving into the casters then plugging your way out of death.

Maybe if melee had proper strengths here in pvp as they did in live, there would be more than 5 on the entire server

[CrystalBlue]

Maybe if melee had proper strengths here in pvp as they did in live, there would be more than 5 on the entire server

wow please reroll, there is not a caster on the entire server that a single Nihilum melee fears or could not stomp into a mudhole even semi afk.


Is this all because Action Jackson blew you up the other day in Oasis and left your corpse rotting in the hot sun near the docks? LTP, real melee make wizards burn insta gate pots on sight.

[Dullah]

Trying to quote Rogean and place a horrible resist system into the context of saying "some things will be changed" is more than obviously implying things of little importance hence the use of the word STRICTLY which you even bolded but were incapable of comprehending. En Contrare, strictly means they might change the tiny things, but not the heart of the game...

Changing something like resists on a classic server would fall way outside of small change. Even loosely following the classic guidelines wouldn't allow for a complete overhaul and recreation of the pvp mechanics. You might as well just add and delete spells, change effects, damages and mana costs. Null was in way over his head. Its obvious to anyone with a lick of sense.

[Kringe]

who cares, that was not what was promised as far as the pvp goes. Fuk them bad old days when more then half the classes becamse 100 percent useless free kills in end game pvp.

please see:

Again PLEASE See Project 99s OWN Front Page..

Welcome
Relive the classic Everquest MMORPG Gaming Experience as it was in 1999 and onward

[HappyTr33z]

I think it should be changed.

Point A. classic beats custom 5 to 1 in the poll, so it's what the majority wants.

Point B. this is supposed to be AS CLOSE to classic as possible, while I understand there are things that can't be spot on because of info being lost over the years and what not, but when you know for a fact how something was in classic you should switch it asap.

[Nirgon]

Rogean, time to implement them classic resists when you get done with your leader board (which should show item looted on kill hint hint) dawg

http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/23274_125579460797255_6951_n.jpg

(And everything else Trollborn hates while we're at it)

[CrystalBlue]

^^

only people who want item loot are people who dont play and wizards.



p.s. I think you should have logged on and played once in the last 5 months before requesting changes to the server. Just an idea.

If you dont like the server enough to play now, you never will.

[Nirgon]

I'm asking for changes that would get me to log back in.

I liked it enough until I found out the promise of "get more magic resist, it'll work!" among other things fell apart.

I like Sirken and Ambertis, there's a plus. Problem one apparently resolved.

But there's a few other things before I spend 500 hours in a chair in front of this. Maybe you understand, maybe you don't. Eitherway, Trollborn, you take your classic EQ PvP hating else where like contributing to other non-classic bugs that detract from the experience.

I think you'll learn to love a real classic 4 lvl pvp, item loot server with classic resists. Tons of other people back in the day did, and a whole lot of people came here hoping for and expecting it.


Relive the classic Everquest MMORPG Gaming Experience as it was in 1999 and onward

[CrystalBlue]

changes that would get me to log back in.



:rolleyes:


Lets all hold our breath.

[Nirgon]

I hope you try to until any announcements are made. It would be awesome.

Do you want the tombstone to say Trollborn or Crystalblue? I guess given your anonymity we might hafta consider some kind of different grave option. Maybe like a retarded, pussy version of the unknown soldier?

[Nirgon]

Great turn out at the polls.

[SamwiseBanned]

http://www.chimpout.com/forum/imagehosting/106504d4f8e0c1cfb8.gif

[Dullah]

Real melee shouldn't have to waste hundreds of hp and str to stack 140MR and still get rooted. If its a clutch root in a fight, even a pumice won't save you.

Casters are the ones that need to L2P. Relying on root requires 0 skill.

[RoguePhantom]

Real melee shouldn't have to waste hundreds of hp and str to stack 140MR and still get rooted. If its a clutch root in a fight, even a pumice won't save you.

Casters are the ones that need to L2P. Relying on root requires 0 skill.

Classic brah.

[Dullah]

Classic brah.

10 minutes and 3000 mana wouldn't be enough to land a root in classic on a tashed target with 140MR.

[RoguePhantom]

10 minutes and 3000 mana wouldn't be enough to land a root in classic on a tashed target with 140MR.

Yes it was.

L2P

[Dullah]

Yes it was.

L2P

Dumb

[SamwiseBanned]

My favorite part is Destin actually believes his own bullshit lol

[SamwiseBanned]

not even sure who is rooting him unless Nihilum roots their own members.

[Nirgon]

First root lands with 115 MR I stand there hoping his nukes will break root.. But oh yea, this isnt classic!


Oh look someone who plays here validating my major complaint.

Bamzal, did you feel like an enchantress? LOL

[SamwiseBanned]

Oh look someone who plays here validating my major complaint.

Bamzal, did you feel like an enchantress? LOL

I resisted a first cast at 72 mr and the second against a red con druid. I guess I was lucky

[CrystalBlue]

First root lands with 115 MR I stand there hoping his nukes will break root.. But oh yea, this isnt classic!
?


wow, there is a nice spell SK's get kind of early on called Cancel Magic. Remove one of your beyond useless DoTs in your spell gem lineup and keep cancel magic up instead.


LTP


I guess this is why I see your corpses littered across the world so much.

[Tycko]

Oh damn! Bamzal just PK'd Crystalblue. Nice work!

[Nirgon]

I never see any of these Crystalblue screen shots. lul.

[CrystalBlue]

Because I dwell in the mid level PvP game, I like the slow journy up through Everquest, pvp as I go.

Such is the life of a wandering Enchantress

[Littlegyno 9.0]

Because I dwell in the mid level PvP game, I like the slow journy up through Everquest, pvp as I go.

Such is the life of a wandering Enchantress

or a pussy.

[CrystalBlue]

Also... Cancel Magic...

a) Hardly a low-level spell (getting it after 20 days /played) (39 ogre sk after mage sword pet proc free-ride was removed, after population dive-bombed, before xp bonuses were implemented)

b) Used pumice my entire EQ career. The one day I don't have pumice on me and I am suppose to put some useless spell on my bar that I will never need, and it will never do shit.

c) Cancel Magic sucks shit. Serously, how many times do I have to cast Cancel Magic to remove a Paralyzing Earth? Let me go check so I can come back and continue laughing at you.



Seriously, save those pro-tips for someone who needs them... Like Mellowyellow

wow, you seriously have no clue what you are doing.

I see you DO keep crap like siphon str. up instead of cancel magic lolllllllllllllll

fail

(lol you dont even know what cancel magic is or does I see.. let us know how your tests with it go lawl, i was trolling you about cancel magic and it turns out you think its a bad spell not worth memming on a SK wow im kinda speachless!)

[Nirgon]

You do know siphon strength is bad ass for blocking an open dispel slot. Right?

Coupled with asystole (SKs do get this!) it makes for a pretty savage "snare" for a pure caster to deal with.

Just come out and say you're Mellowyellow already. Why the cowardice?

How about he takes a couple nukes from the gank squad while he is casting dispel? He can't get out of range between cancel and running an average distance from a group.

Who is to stay another root won't land after that too? And another? This is at his posted MR btw, which is ludicrous.

Things'd be a lot better around here if people promoted classic changes and less things that makes the game easier for them. Where's your pride?

[CrystalBlue]

wow Nirgon you are trying to actually defend a SK "pvper" who does not keep cancel magic in his spell gems.

I see you are in a blind rage, lost all pvp logic in a frenzy to just argue with me.

wow

(p.s. the noob in question will never see Asystole)

[Nirgon]

0/10 anonymous coward who has never posted a kill shot and claims to be dominant in PvP.

The server was "won" (read: now pretty much empty) by exploiting, corruption and an organized enemy raid leader -- pvp aside if we're being fair and honest.

In fact red, like blue would be much lower pop without the raid leaders of the big guilds.

Would red have more players if there were 2 capable raid guilds? Yup.

Would there be more nutswingers declaring victory based on the knowledge and leadership of said skilled raid leaders? Yeah, that too and I see it here all the time. Some of said nutswingers can barely handle solo content let alone raid content. I guess you recruit what you can.

[Nirgon]

So Destin is saying fix resists while his alter ego says they're fine? Um yeah no~. However, if the alter ego is a fall guy made to look the counter side of the argument look like retarded? Okay, clever, good play.

[CrystalBlue]

Why keep asking who I am? I have a sig, read it.

As for Tr0llb0rn, I wish he'd start posting again, he was fun to read and inspired me to play on red.

[Samrothstein]

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3551/3412301775_c7de29e5cf.jpg

[runlvlzero]

I don't normally endorse clowns, but the above one looks cool ^^

[runlvlzero]

What can cancel magic do that pumice cant? Sucked on live anyway maybe its OP here who knows. Please prove me wrong with just 1 example.

Nope you are right. I thought cancel magic was a good use of a spell gem until I learned the wonders of pumice. Also if you are trying to pumice off druid dots dont do it in LOS of their nukes ;p (they will kill you before u can finish pumicing)

[Nirgon]

Cancel magic shouldn't be able to remove ignite blood and other big magic effects here, I'll tell you that.

[CrystalBlue]

By all means, continue to not use cancel magic. You will continue to be such a ez kill lawl.

[Nirgon]

I'm stealing that for my dispel bug post, thanks Bamz.

[s1ckness]

xp so hard

[Graahle]

but spend just as much time on the forums as I do in game.

Pretty sure it's unhealthy to play 24 hours a day.

[KefkaPalazzo]

inc ban for pvping Nihilum