Pets proccing mage swords on non summoned

[Nirgon]

http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20001129.html


Evidenced here, it should not be in the game on either server.

[koros]

Except... that patch took effect less than a week before Velious. So yes it should be in effect.

[Nirgon]

Yeah its a BUG that was fixed in Kunark scuse me, place is only been on farm forever.

[Nirgon]

You think this should go in then?


Fixed the Paladin Epic Quest reward, which was procing a spell that would do around one million points of damage if left to its own devices.


http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20001121.html


I'll let Nilbog decide on these two. One not the other? Hm. Look like bugs that need to be fixed to me.

[koros]

it wasn't a bug fix... it was a fundamental change to the way pets operated.

[Nirgon]

Yeah anti summoned spells hitting non summoned, while very inconvenient in PvE when removed... is a bug. It is fixed before Velious, not that I really think it should matter too much personally, but that seems to be a theme here.

There's another bug I can post that would allow you to fully loot another player's corpse. How long should that stay in for? Or the undocumented fix to the shaman epic falsely healing for its amount instead of doing damage for a few weeks?

I'll leave my threads for Kanras and Nilbog to look over and I do have more up my sleeve.

[Writ3r]

How about mentioning how unclassic pets already are (lack of aggro, eat xp, the melee table, etc) to make them weak before totally crying and trying to nerf them on their procs before they should be.

[Nirgon]

I'd be happy to look at that too but they seemed fine when I played on red. They definitely aren't their Luclin+ counterparts like on other EQEmu boxes where people killed Naggy with 5 mages and a cleric.

Bug.

[Writ3r]

i said un"classic" brew not luclin+, also maybe you should post this nonsense in PvP Bugs if you aren't concerned with how it is on blue just red.

[Palemoon]

Honestly I'm with Nirgon on most all of these things. Its fun to talk about all those classic "bugs"

Not so fun to actually have to play the game with them, and with everyone knowing about them and taking advantage of them.

[Ele]

Honestly I'm with Nirgon on most all of these things. Its fun to talk about all those classic "bugs"

Not so fun to actually have to play the game with them, and with everyone knowing about them and taking advantage of them.

That's the game that the devs are having to play here: 1) build a server following the EQ timeline as it was, or 2) build a server according to how EQ should have been.

Just some of the things that the EQ Devs admitted were mistakes, described as bugs, and/or removed as game breaking:

Circlet of Shadow
Manastone
Guise of the Deceive
Thex Dagger
Hybrid/class experience penalties
Egg Shaped Pumice
Restrictive Epic Quests (later implemented to allow more people access)
Timorous Deep binding
Locket of Escape
Charming giants in Kael to act as tanks on bosses
Moving Plane of Mischief to Eastern Wastes
Shissar Apothic Staff
Donal's BP (20s and 30s versions, before they added the 7.5 buff part making it worthless)
Velious Cleric BP's having CE as the right click effect (later changed to Mark of Karn)


What about unfinished quests? What about quests that were broken/incomplete until after Luclin? Should those be fixed from the beginning? Should tradeskills recipes implemented by the end of Velious be fully available from Day 0? What about stuff that wasn't added until after Luclin/PoP, it should coincide with some of the cultural released pre-Luclin, but for whatever reason was delayed in implementation.

If we look to determine what EQ should have been, we will have a wide variety of opinions about what should have been from the beginning rather than fixed along the way.

[Nirgon]

Because a community discovered it later doesn't mean that it they wouldn't have fixed it sooner.

Defending a summoned only damage spell effecting non summoned targets is a total face palm.

I also point to another bugged proc, the paladin epic. Do you really want that in too? :eek:

The manastone was never removed entirely from the game, neither was the prenerf cos. So, no, they are fine here.

There's bugs and then design changes and item nerfs. Bugs DO NOT belong! Not to mention this is an end of Kunark era fix to a bug.

i said un"classic" brew not luclin+, also maybe you should post this nonsense in PvP Bugs if you aren't concerned with how it is on blue just red.

If both servers are intended to be classic in functionalty, I care about both. I want bugs on neither. These patch notes are a function of game breaking bugs being discovered by players at a certain time. The original dev staff never intended to keep them in as a feature.

[Ambrotos]

If anyone has facts through links feel free to post them. Just posting blocks of words from your memory won't cut it to argue.

[Nirgon]

If anyone has facts through links feel free to post them. Just posting blocks of words from your memory won't cut it to argue.

http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20001129.html


Random-effects on weapons carried by pets will now behave as if the pet is a player character rather than an NPC. The change last patch reduced them to a rate below player characters. As part of this patch, target-specific random effects will only work if the target is the intended type. For instance, a weapon that processes 'Dismiss Summoned' will only 'go off' on a summoned NPC instead of everything.


Like I originally posted. Dismiss summoned should not hit non summoned targets anyway.

[Morrale]

That doesn't sound like a bug fix so much as a mechanics change. "We have altered pets to be regarded as PCs instead of NPCs when proccing weapons. Of note, this change also has the result of causing procced effects to function for them just as they would a PC, i.e. only taking effect on certain mob types."

Not that I disagree with you that it seems a bit off from a common sense standpoint for an NPC to be able to use Dismiss Summoned or some other such effect on non-summoned creatures, but this is a game where I can carry 8 rusty halberds in any one of 8 large sewing kits I happen to be carrying on my person and not have it at all interfere in my ability to swing a sword. Common sense doesn't exactly operate on its' strongest footing here. XD

Though as you've noted, the final say on what to make of this comes down to the peoples in charge of doin' the fixin'.

[Nirgon]

Regardless of trying to eliminate common sense from the argument. There are Kunark patch notes right there.

Show me the one where they say it is intended again / when it was implemented intentionally? Do you think it should be removed in Velious then?

[Writ3r]

Apparently your intentions are just to try and get banned (as is a post you have elsewhere), however if you have to ask when it was implemented after seeing when it was supposedly altered in your patch notes the answer should lie within your "common sense" and remain simple.

It was implemented intentionally upon release... dummy.

[Morrale]

It's not my job to prove that it was intentional. It's yours to prove that it was unintentional. That's what bug fixin' is all about. Prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that something isn't functioning properly, then bring it to attention. All I am offering is that there is room for interpretation of what you've posted, which means that more evidence to assert your position should be provided if possible.

[Nirgon]

K patch notes show it should be removed in Kunark. Please leave this thread for Nilbog and Kanras.

This SHOULD be in though and I think is:


Higher level Magician, Necromancer, and Shadowknight pets now have the ability to dual-wield without being handed weapons. The calculation used to determine whether or not this ability exists takes several things into account, but for the most part 39th level and above summons (higher for the Shadowknight) will have this ability. It is possible that you could get a 'good' 34th level pet that will, or a 'bad' 39th level pet that will not have this ability.


Again, same patch (http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20001129.html).

[uygi]

Pet dual wielding here is not the same as classic, though it used to be. Prior to the nerf patch, pet dual wielding matches what I remember from Live and the info from eqsummoners- that's not really important any more though. It was nerfed on P99, apparently for balance reasons, on 4/17/11:
Kanras: Pets will no longer automatically dual wield at a certain level. It was then largely restored on 12/18/11:
Kanras: Higher level pets Magician, Necromancer, and Shadowkinght will automatically dual wield. (Blue only)

Now it's something along the lines of 49+ mage/necro pets and 58 SK (not 100% sure if any other Sk pets do) pet will dual wield on their own.

It's worth noting that the game was patched for pet to proc Sword of Runes on anything some time in between those two. I don't recall exactly when and I didn't find it with the quick searches I did.

Nirgon, note that I went into the P99 patch history to see how and when things got the way they are. It's great! Try it.

[Nirgon]

Patch notes say it was fixed during this era and the same as the above change. I rest my case.

[Jjlent]

the only necro pet that dual wields w/o weapons is the 56 monk pet, EoT and 53 rogue pet don't Myu

[uygi]

Patch notes say it was fixed during this era and the same as the above change. I rest my case.

Link? It's not Nilbog's, or anyone else's, job to go find supporting evidence.

[Nirgon]

http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20001129.html

^^^^^
LINK



Random-effects on weapons carried by pets will now behave as if the pet is a player character rather than an NPC. The change last patch reduced them to a rate below player characters. As part of this patch, target-specific random effects will only work if the target is the intended type. For instance, a weapon that processes 'Dismiss Summoned' will only 'go off' on a summoned NPC instead of everything.


^^^^^
THE FIX




NOVEMBER 29, 2000


^^^^^^
THE DATE


I've already posted this..

[happyhappy]

According to same patch note, Velious should be coming this week too, that makes me a happy panda.

Remember! Only a few days left until the launch of EverQuest: The Scars of Velious. Reserve your copy at your local retailer today!

[Nirgon]

In this same patch, are we then removing:


Made final positive modifications to several Epic Quest rewards. Included in these changes: the SK weapon will now allow you to bash while carrying it.


Until Velious? Would removing this make you a happy panda too? =)

I think the mage sword thing needs to go, man.

[Nirgon]

Patch notes posted. Any dev comments or need more info?

[uygi]

As long as this thread has already been bumped...
In this same patch, are we then removing:
Made final positive modifications to several Epic Quest rewards. Included in these changes: the SK weapon will now allow you to bash while carrying it.
Until Velious? Would removing this make you a happy panda too? =)

I think the mage sword thing needs to go, man.

Please make SK epic non-bash until after SK BotB :p
The evidence! THE EVIDENCE!

[Nirgon]

I have patch notes here showing the SK epic being able to bash and pets being able to proc mage summoned swords removed in the same notes.

Which is it here? IMO time to end the mage swords procs.

[Nirgon]

Is SK epic bash staying and this is going?

Or is SK epic bash going and this is staying?

[Treats]

I'm sure Mage Swords will probably be fixed when Velious releases.

It was done a week before then, use a little common sense.

If you want to post a bug about 2h SK bash then make another thread, christ.

[Nirgon]

They must.... choose.

http://www.flix66.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Indiana-Jones-4.jpg

Imo just fix an obvious damned bug but I make things up all the time or so I'm told.

[Treats]

It was already stated in this thread that it was not a bug, it was a function of how pets worked.

Random-effects on weapons carried by pets will now behave as if the pet is a player character rather than an NPC. The change last patch reduced them to a rate below player characters. As part of this patch, target-specific random effects will only work if the target is the intended type. For instance, a weapon that processes 'Dismiss Summoned' will only 'go off' on a summoned NPC instead of everything.

Pet acted as an NPC before.

Pet acted as a player character after.

[Nirgon]

Ok right, but you can only have one or the other and I'd lead it up to the content head (Nilberg) to decide which stays and which goes per the same patch notes where BOTH changes occur.

Epic bash or mage swords.

I think its going to be pretty obvious the SK bash will stay.

You guys are also, as far as I can tell, on the "end of Kunark" time line. I haven't seen a thread recently where its been stated "we're not far enough into Kunark yet".

I like the point you're making, but I know CYA wording when I see it (in the patch notes, not you, bud) and am not swayed. I'm sure this change really ticked off some mages on live and that's how they addressed it.

And again, as a content dev, I'd leave it to him to decide how he changes pets to work. This does have PvP implications regarding their resists, but I'll await the p99 notes regarding this before any commentary in that bug section.. if any are needed.

[Silo69]

nigron confirmed mad about a positive bug that is not going to be changed because it is in deed classic.... removing it would make it "not classic"

sorry kiddo they are not gonna nerf everyones fun

i did enjoy how dev's here made a change to how pets responded to fine steal daggers having next to 0 delay when server opened....should of stayed in, but then again it took them a year to nerf chanters over powered charm of red con mobs full duration with little to no +cha gear....

i say leave it in till vel is released, even if we are at the "end of the time line" you cant start fixing stuff till SoV goes live... if its not live, its classic brojam

[Nirgon]

I'll settle on Velious development being more important. Blue will hit 1200+ and with all of Velious's zones and content, it will be a nice little play ground that can easily hold that many.

[Nirgon]

http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20001129.html


Evidenced here, it should not be in the game on either server.

bump.

SK being able to bash with epic + no more swords proccing on non-summoned are in the same patch note.


Random-effects on weapons carried by pets will now behave as if the pet is a player character rather than an NPC. The change last patch reduced them to a rate below player characters. As part of this patch, target-specific random effects will only work if the target is the intended type. For instance, a weapon that processes 'Dismiss Summoned' will only 'go off' on a summoned NPC instead of everything.



Made final positive modifications to several Epic Quest rewards. Included in these changes: the SK weapon will now allow you to bash while carrying it.

[Potus]

That's the game that the devs are having to play here: 1) build a server following the EQ timeline as it was, or 2) build a server according to how EQ should have been.

Just some of the things that the EQ Devs admitted were mistakes, described as bugs, and/or removed as game breaking:

Circlet of Shadow


CoS really wasn't gamebreaking considering they put an identical AA in later. The Coterie Mask of the Dead definitely was.