Game breaking raid issue: Sirran the Lunatic

[Nirgon]

This NPC should not be charmable due to very very high spell resists.

[bizzum]

If you think these are all "Game Breaking Exploits", it probably would have been smart to post them in the "Exploit" forum.

Also a quick search would have revealed that most of these have been posted and debated about before and proved correct/wrong one way or another.

[Nirgon]

I played EQ Classic and know fully well everything I just posted needs to be addressed.

Please explain to me why you think any of what I posted is wrong other than it may remove the ability to exploit PvE on these servers.

Thanks!

[bizzum]

Most of us played classic. If you read the giant Read before posting thread in this forum, you'd know your memories don't consitute evidence for a change. Go out and find some old site/threads thats mention what you want changed and post it, or nobody is going to even look for more than a second at this. Playing EQ is never enough, and for good reasons.

You could have searched first as well like I mentioned.

Thread regarding Sirran and how he IS charmable: http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=42673&highlight=sirran

Might as well post your concrete evidence there rather than just saying "I played EQ I know how it was change it!"

You also don't need to put Game breaking exploit fix now in your title, but thats just my two cents.

[Nirgon]

People are already doing it, have been doing it forever and its gamebreaking sir. Not like I let a cat out of the bag.

I had people link things like the blue crystal staff should have been dropping in classic using sites like that, which is clearly ridiculous.

[bizzum]

It sure makes you look more credible though, and its the way things have always been aroudn here. After 5000 posts I thought you might have learned something.

You sure didn't let the cat out of the bag, I'll give you that much!

[Nirgon]

Why does this guide mention using rapture and dictate on mobs in sky but not on Sirran?

http://istormer.yuku.com/topic/1035

Source (http://www.tribalfury.org/strats/Plane%20of%20Sky%20Guilde%202%20-%20Sacred%20Honor.rtf)

Does this guy ever show Sirran being sent in to kill mobs? No. Not in the previous example either. It's a misinformed player at this EQrunes site and unfortunately it was implemented here.

Having raided this zone in late Kunark and throughout early Velious, I know for a fact this was not a charmable mob.

The efforts made to trivialize PvE in an effort to claim skill in classic Everquest here can be pretty depressing.

[bizzum]

We'll I'm not the judge of whether his info is false or not, but its more concrete than it simply "not being in a guide".

The bee dictate thing is a good idea though!

[Nirgon]

I'll have you know I received this same kind of responses in threads supporting shaman dots not stacking, and charmed animals being able to dual wield (and consequently proc) weapons =). I do, in fact, know so!

[bizzum]

Good luck! My input ends here for now. Concrete evidence is pretty nice though @_@

[Nirgon]

You do realize that every mechanic is not spelled out in an Everquest patch note and there will be bugs unique to the emu code they have.

Certain bugs were also bugs that would have been fixed had they been DISCOVERED earlier in the time line.

There's a clear case for a game breaking bug that was used on classic for a very short period... but just because it was discovered in Luclin or later doesn't mean it needs to be in here.

[uygi]

You do realize that every mechanic is not spelled out in an Everquest patch note and there will be bugs unique to the emu code they have.

Certain bugs were also bugs that would have been fixed had they been DISCOVERED earlier in the time line.

There's a clear case for a game breaking bug that was used on classic for a very short period... but just because it was discovered in Luclin or later doesn't mean it needs to be in here.

Now you're talking about un-classic balance issues. That's Nilbog territory, so take it up with him. Many things on P99 aren't classic, most especially the player base and its knowledge of the game (and the game's future).

If you're going to post that something is a bug, you need evidence. If you've searched tirelessly and can't find any even though you're REALLY SURE, you can make a post politely requesting assistance.

[Nirgon]

I found "evidence" that says he should death touch..

[Ambrotos]

If anyone has facts through links feel free to post them. Just posting blocks of words from your memory won't cut it to argue.

[Nirgon]

I read what got this changed and if that's considered evidence... heh.

I have posted a detailed raid guide that mentions dictating and rapturing NPCs with absolutely no mention of using Sirran..

[Ele]

I read what got this changed and if that's considered evidence... heh.

I have posted a detailed raid guide that mentions dictating and rapturing NPCs with absolutely no mention of using Sirran..

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

The guide you linked also discusses spirocs as having "small aggro", and the poster did not even know how to spawn Sister of the Spire. The poster also recommends just killing the left and right bee and just camping a cleric and coming back 80 minutes later to finish the boss solo. Hardcore mode I suppose. While he discusses being able to pull some mobs from various islands to the preceding islands and using charm on various mobs, such as the bees, he never once mentions we tried to charm Sirran and it resisted or said "cannot be charmed".

So how is this detailed guide evidence that Sirran is not charmable? If anything it would lead to an assumption that they didn't even try it.

[Ele]

I found "evidence" that says he should death touch..

Where is it?

The word document nor the yuku forum post indicate that, and that is the only source of evidence you have provided so far.

[Nirgon]

Raid guide also here lists Sirran as a death touch mob.

http://www.angelfire.com/freak/eqjonze/guides/planes/planeofsky1/posguide.pdf


Sirran The Lunatic, like the Key Master, should never be attacked. He hits for 2000+ and death
touches so you’ll pretty much be dead before you can say “mommy”. Once he spawns, he will despawn 45
minutes later.


Doesn't look like some slob made that guide in 2 minutes either.

He should also apparently be lvl 63?


When the princess is slain, a MOB you’ll come to know and love
spawns in her place, a halfling called Sirran the Lunatic (level 63).


Doesn't sound charmable to me and is way better evidence than someone hearing a story or thinking so and mentioning it briefly in relation to Frozen Moses in Kael who was pretty quickly patched.

[Lazortag]

I'm fairly sure he should DT:

http://web.archive.org/web/20010708041318/http://everlore.com/bestiary/beastdetails.asp?mode=show&BID=187448

[Nirgon]

Awaiting Kanras/Nilbog review of evidence.

Please try to post better evidence than this.

[Nirgon]

You also don't need to put Game breaking exploit fix now in your title, but thats just my two cents.

But it is one as far as that raid is concerned.

I'm fairly sure he should DT:

http://web.archive.org/web/20010708041318/http://everlore.com/bestiary/beastdetails.asp?mode=show&BID=187448


This is a quest npc in the plane of air. He is not kos but he is VERY powerful. He hits for ~1800 and death touches every 3 second. DO NOT attack him!


Excellent find. This matches my memory of raiding Sky in mid/late Kunark.

Great to see we're removing the trivializing of raid content and getting things closer to classic.


Edit from another player I raided with:

i'm 100% positive sirren DTs
i can distinctly remember hitting A while handing in a key to him and getting fucking annihilated

[Ele]

Yay, some actual evidence! Time to pull some teeth.


From page 1 of the http://www.angelfire.com/freak/eqjonze/guides/planes/planeofsky1/posguide.pdf
It is generally never a good idea to either duel or cast area effect damage or stun spells in Plane of
Sky. On the first island, dueling will aggro the quest based efreeti’s underneath in the quest room who will
begin death touching players and wiping out the raid very quickly. Dueling on Gorgalask Island will cause
passing MOBs to consider you free game and will begin attacking you immediately.

[Xanthias]

Also adding this:
Notice it is under RESOLVED ISSUES:

http://www.project1999.org/forums/archive/index.php/t-42673.html

Also RE: Him DT'ing
Never happened, he just hits so hard/fast seems that way

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/npc.html?id=4638#m10250469734748

[Xanthias]

From: http://www.therunes.net/g-charm.htm

Many Enchanters wonder about the why the fixed duration Dictate spell was even added. While the situations for its use are very limited, there are a few places this spell can be useful. The most noteworthy is Kael. The high level giants (55+) there are immune to all forms of Mez, but are still flagged as charmable. Dictate can be used in this situation as a 48 second crowd control spell. However, this spell outlived its usefulness back during Scars of Velious, and with the addition of the newer high level charms it has gone the way of the Dodo bird. Though, “Frozen Moses” and Sirran the Lunatic owned many a mob for the resourceful and daring back in the days of Velious. Ahhhh the memories of solo farming Shields' of the Void! But I digress, back to the guide. /wave Salidor

[Nirgon]

That poster from the runes is mistaken and "heard of it maybe".

This was incorrectly resolved.

I have raid guides that mention what is charmed as a strategy as well as the everlore data and more.

[quido]

"I'm the party pooper."

[Ele]

http://samanna.net/3u/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1688&start=0

Galelor wrote:
drexxell wrote:
Galelor wrote:
http://www.rpgexpert.com/624.html
that is the one i use, it is dated but it gives a good run down of what goes on.

In fact, it was my source for some missing HP data plus all the quest data.

Galelor wrote:
as far as killing sirran, don't bother, considering the amount of DTs someone is going to take just move him with the toon taking all the DTs and die. you can vet aa rez for full xp and it adds about 1 minute inbetween the sister kill he spawns from and the next sister kill. killing sirran is bad from all sources i have seen.


Sirran does NOT Death Touch. That is confirmed, as we've accidentally (sometimes purposefully) aggro'd him plenty in the last few months,
but never took the fight to the end. He never DT'd.


i didn't say he DTed, i said someone is going to have to take DTs anyway (from sister.) why bother killing sirran if you are going to be takeing 20+DTs anyway. just agro him, move him and die (you are going to be vet AA rezing all but 1 corpse anyway.) i was using a necro to agro him and then FD when he was moved out of sister assist range.


I didn't realize you were ONLY talking about farming the Sister, sorry. I was talking in general about whacking Sirran on any of his 7 different islands.

Drex

[Lazortag]

I retract my previous post now that I have a good reason to disagree with Nirgon. Unless someone can produce a screenshot of Sirran DTing someone I think it should be assumed that he shouldn't.

[Ele]

EDIT: It does appear that Artemis was a bard and this occurred after the bard charm changes/bug where it uncapped. However, this still shows that Sirran was capable of being charmed and is not flagged uncharmable.


http://www.********.org/forums/1154798-post59.html

ROFL censored link - FlamesofValhalla.org /wink


Derision was a necro in RoV, used to pull Fear for us, he kicked some ass but yes, he was an asshole.

Xoleres was the ranger who was the original leader of RoV. One day he showed up in all chain and shitty ass fine steel swords and told us he destroyed all of his gear (which was like full Ruby, CoF, 2 Ykeshas, etc.) to "inspire us to do better". I think another guild finally killed Nagafen or some stupid shit like that. Everyone got super pissed because we were basically giving him all the best gear as it dropped since he was our GL, and then after like a week he showed up with all his gear on and told us he tricked us.

Then yes, sometime later into Kunark or Velious, he "died" in real life and then mysteriously reappeared less than a year later and it turned out he staged the whole thing. People on the old Bristlebane message board (smut board I think?) used to call him Zombie Xoleres and had a lot of fun with that.

I was in Succoring Winds too. I actually stole the name Eyashusa from some guy in AO but I'm not actually him.

Does anyone remember the enchanter Brewe? His guild Bixie Busters, was the most hilarious guild name ever. I remember he pissed off the entire server when he rolled on a Cloak of Flames and gave it to himself. Justified rolling by saying it was All/All and casters have to melee sometimes too! Hilarious.

The whole Montes drama was hysterical too...and Artemis charming Sirran the Lunatic and killing everyone in Sky...good times. Any BB people still post on that board?

http://www.********.org/forums/530112-post87.html

same censored website different post

Best broken bard ever was when they could charm anything. Keymaster > Sirran the Lunatic X_X

[Nirgon]

The Keymaster should also death touch if he does not already I've confirmed.

[Nirgon]

http://samanna.net/3u/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1688&start=0

That's from 2006 and all of this may have changed then.

The Flamesofvalhalla link does not work for me.

Charm was broken for a while in EQ, but as of Kunark/Velious Sirran is not charmable and does death touch.

The Everlore link and comments prove this best.

[Ele]

That's from 2006 and all of this may have changed then.

The Flamesofvalhalla link does not work for me.

Charm was broken for a while in EQ, but as of Kunark Sirran is not charmable and does death touch.

The Everlore link and comments prove this best.

You aren't too quick on the uptake. f-i-r-e-s-o-f-h-e-a-v-e-n.org and you have to cut and paste the remainder of the link after you type out the above URL without all the dashes.

The Tashia of Xegony guide was last updated March 2001, post Velious.
The Chango Malavida guide, posted on the Yuku link is dated July 2002, post Luclin.
The three guides linked from the Chango guide are broken.
The Word document guide is listed as having a date of July 2002, post Luclin. (Mentioned nothing of the lack of ability to charm Sirran or Sirran being capable of death touch).

The Everlore link is from March-July 2001, post Velious.


None of the guides you have provided as evidence are Kunark era, none of the guides you have provided have stated Sirran is uncharmable.

You are making a fallacious argument that the absence of evidence is evidence of absence.

[uygi]

The Keymaster should also death touch if he does not already I've confirmed.

If you can't do the slightest amount of work to find out how P99 works, I don't see why we should listen to you. Go up to Sky and find out for yourself.

[bizzum]

Nirgon already confirmed with the clue crew that death touch needs to be there. This sounds like a job for the Hardly Brothers.

[Nirgon]

The FoH link is also based on someone's memory.

If Sirran was charmable ever, at all, it was fixed very quickly.

Sirran and Keymaster should both DT. I'll work on some screenies.

[Ele]

The FoH link is also based on someone's memory.

If Sirran was charmable ever, at all, it was fixed very quickly.

Sirran and Keymaster should both DT. I'll work on some screenies.

I already edited that post that it was after bard charm issues came about, and the relevance of that post is likely not that great to show his overall charmability. It does however indicate that Sirran was indeed charmable and not flagged uncharmable.

Again, you haven't posted any evidence that states Sirran is uncharmable. You keep arguing that because no one in your sources said Sirran was charmed, that it was not possible.

[Nirgon]

The Keymaster was charmable at one point and did death touch.

Sirran may have been charmable during a time that something was broken, but indeed never intended and would have been quickly fixed.

I'll find you that info and hopefully a death touch screen shot.

[Alarti0001]

The FoH link is also based on someone's memory.

If Sirran was charmable ever, at all, it was fixed very quickly.

Sirran and Keymaster should both DT. I'll work on some screenies.

Velious also came out the same year as Kunark.

Pt?

[Nirgon]

You get scored a pt. I'm finding info that he and the key master were charmable for a very brief people of time and would even DT other mobs, kid you not.

However, there's no reason for Sirran not to be death touching as indicated in the raid guide I posted.

[Arteker]

we used sirran back in kunark to kill inte akerra.
the dynamic for sirran was about the same of using frozen moses in velious. wich was when they tweek charm

[Nirgon]

Yes I do know the "Frozen Moses" (here's a bonus point: why does no one use the mob's actual name? It's Legionnaire Blizzardwalker, talk like a raider not a raider fan boi) is patched and fixed VERY quickly... much like Sirran.

I do strongly, strongly hope that you do not have "Frozen Moses" charmable for virtually the entirety of Velious here. What a joke that would be. I could have a 2 man Kael farm guild. Mind you, at a certain point this will jeopardize you same raiders trying to keep things easy here out of some sleeper keys (hi2u they do drop/start dropping from Statue etc).

How about I find some bugs that make PvE easier to offset the recent grouch wave against these necessary fixes? Are they received better here?

[Splorf22]

Meh dictating sirran is about the only fun thing we enchanters get to do on Sky raids. You can talk about this stuff trivializing the content but most of the raids I've seen don't charm him because when dictate wears off he'll aggro your raid and not just the enchanter.

I looked up Legionnaire Blizzardwalker and according to MQemulator he is not only charmable but hits for a max of 200.

P.S. Does anyone know when Dictate was increased to 48 seconds?

[Nirgon]

A mob that we can all agree on that was charmable and then rather quickly patched with great certainty is being used to keep Sirran charmable is the crux of my argument here. Further, we have 2 submitted cases with clear evidence that Sirran the Lunatic and the Key Master should death touch. Why classic or close to classic era raid guides or Everlore data from the way back with people agreeing and sharing stories doesn't work for some.. I'm thinking is only an effort to further the trivialization of content.

[Arteker]

Yes I do know the "Frozen Moses" (here's a bonus point: why does no one use the mob's actual name? It's Legionnaire Blizzardwalker, talk like a raider not a raider fan boi) is patched and fixed VERY quickly... much like Sirran.

?

first this raider fan boy had raided prety much content u didint . i give the name frozen msoes because i liekd it and im very funny man when i had to deal with dorks.

you know what im done in this forum just uploaded old magna charta screenshoots from solusek ro with us using sirran to kill anything in sky .

u go beyond classic because u dont like how things were back then fine .

But is how worked back then

[Nirgon]

I have been asking people if they can provide photographic evidence (screenie ftw).

I was told by someone that they recall them using Sirran to kill the Keymaster and they he did death touch NPCs during that time even.

I would imagine this was quickly fixed. As far as hard evidence goes man, the raid guide I have says he DTs. The other, that in fact uses charming as a common tactic does not list Sirran. I would think a raid guild would have at least tried an posted that.

As far as what got this changed? It seems to me a brief bug has been accepted as canon and his death touch issue is unresolved based .

[Nirgon]

Update:
From the people I've spoken with who lead raids in the classic era, this much is confirmed: You won't find patch notes on this, only the bits of evidence found stating death touch in Everlore and in the raid guide, as well as saying many mobs maybe the gang here did not know where charmable yet omitting Sirran.

Here's the break down and there's even room for this (imo) bug to make things even easier:
Sirran was charmable at one point.
He always death touched through Velious.
The Keymaster should death touch.
The Keymaster AND Sirran were charmable for the same period of time (this will REALLY make things easy..).
The mobs, when charmed, WILL death touch other NPCs: Alloria of FoH cites that they turned Sirran loose on Overseer of air. The 2 NPCs exchanged death touches, but by luck Overseer actually pulled a win when they did this!
The Keymaster also absolutely beat down raid npcs.
Charm was fixed by at least Velious, it did not exist in plane of sky any further than this.

Adding the Keymaster to Sirran's time line of being charmable is going to make things even easier here again. It's not my sole intent to make this server easier or harder (although I do hate the easier part trust me)! In fact, while the DT change would seemingly make this a "fix to having the NPC charmable", 2 enchanters could just be ready to hold down a charm on him in a worst case scenario. Having him DT other mobs, while definitely classic at some point during the classic time line is also a huge help for you. Also, if he has recently death touched and you just do a quick charm break and recharm, one enchanter should be able to hold him down.

I regret to inform you that outside from the word of the guild who spearheaded this raid and the Everlore data, there is nothing else. We dove through many screen shots and cannot in fact find any pictures of Sirran beating down the raid NPCs (being charmable) NOR can we find any of him shouting an NPC's or player's name.

I guess this is a Nilbog call based on the evidence now discovered.

I know there's quite a bit of hostility towards me for stirring the post on these bugs. I would hope you'd appreciate my efforts here and classic knowledge, still though, please feel free to come throw rotten vegetables in RNF (not here)!

Here's something else from Everlore (http://web.archive.org/web/20010708041318/http://everlore.com/bestiary/beastdetails.asp?mode=show&BID=187448): Level Range 60 / 63

This is also pretty much undeniable throughout the evidence I've compiled. I think this would definitely rule him out as a mob you can dictate..

Along with the reasons for charm being a problem.. same problem applies to fire giants (who are correctly immune to fear, but not charm) being charmable as we noticed on red, this comment here (http://web.archive.org/web/20010711212959/http://everlore.com/magic/Magic.asp?ID=121472&mode=details&spname=Dictate&type=):


This is completely unresistable, expcept for dragons, gods, and mobs immune to magic. It will work on anything besides those that is level 58 or below.


Given that Sirran was flagged as a death touch NPC and his listed level during the Kunark time line.. this is why I made the above claims in this thread.







Up next: dispel mechanics! Nullify magic vs cancel magic vs annul magic.

[Nirgon]

Here's the patch I recall that fixes charm on Sirran and other mobs..

http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20000428.html

Corrected a bug with "Song of the Sirens" that caused an unintended level-cap to affect the spell. Bards should now be able to charm everything that they once could with this spell.


This fits the time line matching what I remember. The fact that he is able to be hit with dictate here is very much incorrect and I don't see where anyone posted any evidence anywhere that dictate should land!!

Here's why you don't see it in a patch note IE SoE/Verant policy (http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20000606.html) (see risk and reward):


Though it is not our policy to announce changes to individual NPCs, we did want to let you know that you will see risk/reward disparities corrected over the next several weeks.

[Nizzarr]

I havent read much of this thread -- I was guilded with the first 60 enchanter on live, we used dictate on sirran once to get the world first? overseer of air kill. It was patched the next day and he was flagged uncharmable.

my 2 cents

[Nirgon]

Here's more evidence from people who remember and it fits the bard charm being broken change (http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20000428.html):

http://www.********.org/forums/145532-post116.html

F-O-H-G-U-I-L-D <- this was referenced before.. mod pls handle if I'm being a bad boy some how


Sirran was killed...back when bard charm was fucked up ;p

Key Master shouts, 'Sirran the Lunatic!!"


I believe I have solved the puzzle. Briefly charmable by bards and does death touch!

Thank you Nizzar. He should be flagged as uncharmable asap and death touch -- both changes should apply to the Keymaster as well.

As I was on Rallos Zek, we were behind the blue servers. However, we raided plane of sky and the raids I attended had no charming of Sirran. What my raids DID have were people using the Thurgadin claw quest BFG thing to jump across islands. I will be happy to share that nugget of wisdom in my detail at the opening of Velious if anyone nicely PMs me asking :). Just saying, trust me, they would have taken advantage of that if it existed and this was mid-end of Kunark and early Velious (hence I mention the BFG claw).

WTB Nilbog response.

[Xanthias]

This fits the time line matching what I remember. The fact that he is able to be hit with dictate here is very much incorrect and I don't see where anyone posted any evidence anywhere that dictate should land!!



Evidence previously posted shows otherwise.

Update:

The Keymaster AND Sirran were charmable for the same period of time (this will REALLY make things easy..).

......

Here's something else from Everlore (http://web.archive.org/web/20010708041318/http://everlore.com/bestiary/beastdetails.asp?mode=show&BID=187448): Level Range 60 / 63

Given that Sirran was flagged as a death touch NPC and his listed level during the Kunark time line.. this is why I made the above claims in this thread.


The date of your everlore post is July 8, 2001, which is half way through Velious which is after the planar revamp.
Expansion Timeline. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EverQuest#Expansions)

I do not deny the fact he was CHANGED, during the revamp, but during Kunark he was charmable.

[Nirgon]

Well he should be bard charmable and not enchanter charmable then. Song of the siren is the one that did this for the long stretch until Velious.

He and the Keymaster, then, should also both be BARD CHARMABLE ONLY with SONG OF THE SIREN and also DEATH TOUCH.

Glad we all got to the bottom of this :). And, in turn, it makes raiding plane of sky quite easier but is classic by time line (whether or not this shit is crazy and unintended!).

[Qriptoniq]

Still waiting for this to be fixed.

I recall raiding with my guild on Druzzil Ro, <House of the Crimson Rose>, back in the day and being unable to charm him with Dictate. However, we had this awesome Bard named Songbird who would charm him and carry him all over PoSky with us. I can recall with certainty, furthermore, that he would DT, seeing as we were ALWAYS having to hand out resurrections to poor Songbird. :p

I'm quite surprised, due to the overwhelming evidence provided, that great Sir Nilbog has not restored this to a Classic™ version!

[Nirgon]

Ah yes, quite right. It was certainly the bard sploit fixed and Sirran being charmable went away along with it.

[Splorf22]

How about you apply your zeal for classicness to providing some evidence that the other mobs in sky were charmable? Because it seems they were.

[Nirgon]

I linked a raid guide. Sorry that there's no Everlore post on this bard bug that was quickly fixed.

Nilbog started posting again maybe I'll find those posts of guys talking about Keymaster vs Sirran and shit. BTW they death touched.

Another who truly has the classic zeal is carrying the torch now. I shall follow him.

[Nirgon]

Still waiting for this to be fixed.

I recall raiding with my guild on Druzzil Ro, <House of the Crimson Rose>, back in the day and being unable to charm him with Dictate. However, we had this awesome Bard named Songbird who would charm him and carry him all over PoSky with us. I can recall with certainty, furthermore, that he would DT, seeing as we were ALWAYS having to hand out resurrections to poor Songbird. :p

I'm quite surprised, due to the overwhelming evidence provided, that great Sir Nilbog has not restored this to a Classic™ version!

Thanks.


More, source (http://www.angelfire.com/freak/eqjonze/guides/planes/planeofsky1/posguide.pdf):

When the princess is slain, a MOB you’ll come to know and love
spawns in her place, a halfling called Sirran the Lunatic (level 63).
Sirran The Lunatic, like the Key Master, should never be attacked. He hits for 2000+ and death
touches so you’ll pretty much be dead before you can say “mommy”.


Also, pretty please fix Bzazzt...

I have to say this Plane of Sky is really bad ass and worth a read through for anyone trying to make it more classic.

It also notes how the Eye of Veeshan should work correctly:

She hits for around 170, procs an
efreeti DD on almost every hit and also Death Touches.


Please fix up EoV, Sirran (insane.. come on..) and bee quadding.

I'm sure people will contend that RZ didn't kill any raid bosses because we had no clue what we were doing raid organization wise (sleeper much?), but the truth is, we had people fully geared up and did clear this content. I've combed through this guide and its absolutely written by someone March 2001 (fairly early Velious imo) and also by someone who knows what the hell they're talking about.


More on dictate, source (http://web.archive.org/web/20010711212959/http://everlore.com/magic/Magic.asp?ID=121472&mode=details&spname=Dictate&type=):

This is completely unresistable, expcept for dragons, gods, and mobs immune to magic. It will work on anything besides those that is level 58 or below.


Again from the above:

a halfling called Sirran the Lunatic (level 63).


Please help us make Plane of Sky the classic raid zone it was during live. Plane of Hate feels classic as hell and is very awesome, we only need to address invis stacking and maybe some of the mobs needing to see invis there.

[heartbrand]

Again, any change to Sirran NEEDS to be accompanied by the fixes to EoV / Bee / etc., as well as restoring to charmable thunder spirits and other mobs which were flagged uncharmable despite it not being classic

[Nirgon]

HB, being the honest Abe that I am, I did include that. My goal isn't to make playing miserable for people.

I think this is a very simple fix to implement as well.


Thott's classic writings CONFIRMING that it was bards being the bug, again for great (hopefully) closing of this case:

Source (http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/bard_charm.php):

The level 39 charm fixed charm kiting by adding a mana cost. So the bard could charm kite, but not forever. GZ was always a big proponent of kiting, and I am guessing this was the end solution: kiting was allowed, but limited in duration.
I don't know the whole internal story behind the 39 charm. I don't know if it was meant to scale up with bard level, or had a charm cap equal to the highest kunark charms, or what. It was added fairly close to the kunark release, after the kunark spells were done. It worked on mobs up to level 55, and maybe higher.

All it took was a few gods getting charmed by bards for the nerf hammer to come down, and bard charm was changed to cap at 51. 51 was definitely the best cap pre-kunark, because so many encounters were designed assuming that cap existed. Having a higher cap made some of the toughest encounters at the time (PoS, etc.) easy.

Of course now, enchanters can charm level mobs over level 51 easily.


^ aaand there's your explainins for BARD charming Sirran, NOT enchanters. Thott, like the guy who made that raid guide, isn't just guessing.. trust me.


Another raid guide (for making separate reports):
http://ritualmisery.yuku.com/topic/1312/Plane-of-Sky-Spoiler
http://www.angelfire.com/freak/eqjonze/guides/planes/planeofsky1/planeofair.htm

[Handull]

Make sirran uncharmable but allow people to charm Bzzazzts, island 1, and maybe more, and I don't think anyone will complain.

April '01
"Bzzazzt Isle:
Bzzazzt (3 on Bzzazzt Isle, Aggro, level 50) Look like Wasps from newbie zones, hit for 390, and cast Deadly Poison (1200 DoT) spell on target. Not very magic resistant, and can be mezzed easily (and charmed too with some work)"

[Treats]

This is completely unresistable, expcept for dragons, gods, and mobs immune to magic. It will work on anything besides those that is level 58 or below.

Lots of NPCs in game that are MR immune should not be able to dictate or rapture.

These should be checked, every one I have tried Dictate on has worked.

[Nirgon]

Applying some good reasoning, common logic etc..

If Sirran charmed dark blue to these guys who had dictate or even if he didn't... don't you think they would have at least tried dictate? And when it worked, they would have mentioned it as a viable strat?

:)

[nilbog]

Pending update, Sirran is level 63. Also, pending update, dictate only works on < level 58, so he cannot be dictated. His magic resist is already very high.

Fixed, pending update.

[Leftoverture]

booya

[Nirgon]

http://i.min.us/ijtbcG.gif

halleluuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuujah