Playing the Shaman in group

[mokfarg]

I don't particulary enjoy healing that much but would rather play a shaman as a dps/debuffer. Would this be possible to do or should I look to another class? I can't remember how much healing the shaman did back in classic, I mainly remember them slowing/dotting. Could be wrong though!

[Tocs]

Depends on group make-up. If dps is lacking, then I end up slowing and maybe dropping a heal. If we are raping, I do up the frost nukes and poison rains! As far as main healing goes, leave that to clerics and druids, shaman have too much utility to get sucked in to that imo!

[Skope]

slowing isn't a big deal in classic, or kunark/velious really. It was only during and after luclin that was it was considered mandatory.

But yes, you would be considered the off-heal in a group that has a cleric or a priest. with regen/slow/buffs and debuffs it eases the job of the other healer in the group by quite a bit.

You can also manage to heal/buff a group by yourself as well, though that's heavily dependent on how good the group is (tank and DPS). That's not seen a lot in classic, but with the kunark spells/gear it becomes quite a bit more frequent.

[mokfarg]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the info

[Reiker]

The advantage of a Shaman is their versatility. Unfortunately in Classic they're not really able to capitalize on that very much and they're kind of a weak class. You'll be expected to keep buffs up at the least, and back up heal. Depending on the group you may even be able to main heal, and unfortunately in classic healing is usually a Shaman's main job. Their dots, while powerful, are very costly. You really need to mitigate the high mana costs with Canni, regen spells, and a rubi bp to be on top of your game. Enchanters can slow pretty much just as well as you can.

In Kunark things change a bit with the very efficient Canni 3 and Torpor. Turgur's is also (obviously) very powerful and although most raid targets are slow/MR immune, it becomes a necessary spell when soloing. The main thing you want to get your hands on is a copy of Torpor as this completely changes the gameplay of a Shaman. This spell allows you to regain mana at a sickenly efficient rate, and allows the Shaman to take all roles in a group instead of just 1-2. You'll be able to heal, dps, buff, and debuff without a problem as long as you follow the golden Shaman rule: a second without casting a spell is wasted time.

[Branaddar]

I think the others have summed it up pretty well. As they said, focus on one or two roles and let people know which roles you are filling. If there's a cleric in group, focus on buffing with some "oh crap" heal help on the side, as your constant rebuffs will be costly.

If someone is constantly "haste plz" that doesn't mean you have to do it. If you're main healing, tell them you can't heal and haste unless they want to constantly stop pulls for you to med.

Tell them that your haste costs a lot of mana to maintain on multiple people and maybe just give it to the tank (for hate) and one other melee at most.

Regens, honestly, I only ever kept on myself for the most part unless I was main healing. It can be a waste of mana otherwise.

And yeah, slowing won't be "needed" except on raids, and honestly should be ignored until higher levels.

One of my grand philosophies in EQ, no matter which class/role I played, was of mana costs. Is it mana efficient for me to be hasting everyone so they're more likely to pull hate off the tank? Am I nuking/dotting so much I'm always running oom? Am I pulling too fast for the group to get some med time in? Can this group handle multiple pulls efficiently, or is it just costing everyone extra mana?

I always tried to keep my mana equal to the main healers as a DPS, and mitigate my buff casting with the mana required to heal or cast necessary debuffs.

Oldschool EQ was all about micromanagement, when we didn't regain full mana in 10 seconds or have 100 mana per tick regen without sitting. Plan your mana out for 5 fights from now and try to keep it somewhat level, or at least decreasing at a moderate rate.

Let your group know to slow the pulls down a bit or to let the tank get more hate if you're blowing half your mana bar healing in one fight.

I'm really hoping that this server won't suffer from EQLive syndrome, where everyone can burn and debuff like mad and their merc tank or well-geared PC tank can keep hate off them NP, or in most cases, they just let the hate get on them and tank instead.

That don't work so hot here!

Sorry, I digressed a bit :P

[guineapig]

This spell allows you to regain mana at a sickenly efficient rate, and allows the Shaman to take all roles in a group instead of just 1-2. You'll be able to heal, dps, buff, and debuff without a problem as long as you follow the golden Shaman rule: a second without casting a spell is wasted time.


All true

Makes playing a bard sound easy now doesn't it? ;)

[Branaddar]

I was tempted to play a bard again. Then I remembered the wrist pain. And the people bitching if I was twisting 4-5 songs and heaven forbid one of them dropped for half a second. And the people asking me to pull, then bitching that their mana regen sucked when I did.

Though swarm kiting was pretty sweet.

Hmm...

[mokfarg]

I was tempted to play a bard again. Then I remembered the wrist pain. And the people bitching if I was twisting 4-5 songs and heaven forbid one of them dropped for half a second. And the people asking me to pull, then bitching that their mana regen sucked when I did.

Though swarm kiting was pretty sweet.

Hmm...

I would play a bard if they could tank, but I have read they do not do any of that even though they are a melee hybrid. Looks like they do more playing of songs and being a caster. Not that I am complaining, it's just the reason I chose not to play one.

I think I may choose another class other than a Shaman, would like to be some type of melee I believe. Looking at Warriors, Monks, and Rogues. I imagine I may have a hard time in the future trying to get in a raid group as a warrior, only need so many. I may go for either a monk or rogue. Shadowknights would be fun, but they too would probably suffer from the same issue the warrior would have finding a raid guild later.

I imagine rogues or monks being dps would have an easier time finding a spot to fill in more dps. I enjoy tanking but enjoy getting to experience everything a game has to offer as well.

[Skope]

I would play a bard if they could tank, but I have read they do not do any of that even though they are a melee hybrid. Looks like they do more playing of songs and being a caster. Not that I am complaining, it's just the reason I chose not to play one.

I think I may choose another class other than a Shaman, would like to be some type of melee I believe. Looking at Warriors, Monks, and Rogues. I imagine I may have a hard time in the future trying to get in a raid group as a warrior, only need so many. I may go for either a monk or rogue. Shadowknights would be fun, but they too would probably suffer from the same issue the warrior would have finding a raid guild later.

I imagine rogues or monks being dps would have an easier time finding a spot to fill in more dps. I enjoy tanking but enjoy getting to experience everything a game has to offer as well.

Just pick what appeals to you. The server population isn't large (comparatively) and as long as you know what you're doing you shouldn't have a problem finding a good raiding guild. You don't have to be a cleric or a ranger to find yourself rolling for planes gear.

[pickled_heretic]

tanks are kind of in short supply so if you act fast you'll be fine no matter what tank you pick but it's only a matter of time before that void is filled..

[Branaddar]

Monks can be very frustrating and/or rewarding, depending on what you plan to get out of your play time.

Epic quest? Royal pain in the ass if you're unlucky on the drops. I did it three times, and each time I spent at least 30 hours camping the Raster in LGuk.

Pulling? Fun, if you're okay with dieing. Often. And you need to really understand things like how to avoid being cast on while feigning (break line of sight at the right time) and how to split mobs. EQLive monks are spoiled with their infinite throwies and unresistable pacify abilities and "feign through spells" AAs. There's none of that here, and believe me, it can be frustrating. You have to be willing to die for your group/raid rather than try to save your skin and overwhelm them with adds.

Tanking? Depends on how this server treats our mitigation, honestly. We used to be pretty good tanks if we could hold the hate. But Sony nerfed the crap out of that when the warriors got pissed off about it. Unfortunately, Sony took the nerf way too far and we tanked as well as a wizard after that.

DPS? I can't remember how we stacked up against other classes at the time, to be honest. Definitely below rogues and wizards and such. Our itemization wasn't built towards high DPS until Luclin+ as far as I recall. So you'll be good DPS, but you won't be invited to a group for that role.

All that being said, I f-ing loved playing my monk. If you work hard at it, learn your shtuff and practice hard at it, you will be known as a good monk. And those are a hard thing to find. Guilds drool at the thought of having a good monk to pull for them, and it brings a whole new game to raiding.

Some of my best times in EQ were as a raid pulling monk. Pulling off wicked splits with my fellow pullers, etc.

Oh, that reminds me...

If you do raid as a monk... work as a team, don't be a lone cowboy douchebag. Sure, it's possible to split a lot of the content solo, but that doesn't mean it's the best way. It's often faster, more efficient and safer to have at least two pullers working as a team.

[guineapig]

DPS? I can't remember how we stacked up against other classes at the time, to be honest. Definitely below rogues and wizards and such. Our itemization wasn't built towards high DPS until Luclin+ as far as I recall. So you'll be good DPS, but you won't be invited to a group for that role.



Currently on this server, monks seem to be right behind rogues in DPS, in most situations out DPS-ing wizards, necros and mages. On raids, the group containing a rogue and a monk are usually the KS exp group.

[Branaddar]

Interesting. Good to know. I'm sure some tweaking will be done to bring them back down a smidge. I guess it depends on how the dual wield / double attacks end up firing. With them as they are now (from reading other posts) I can see how monks would have a leg up in DPS.

I'm still contemplating if I want to wait until Kunark to start my monk or not. My first was an iksar, it feels almost anathema to make a Human monk :P

Edit: Out of curiosity, what's the shaman vs monk situation for the mid- and high-end? Too many/not enough of which? I'm tossed between which of the two I want to play as a main. I'm leaning towards shaman because they're less of an "active" role in raids than monk. But I don't want to hit 50 and find all the guilds are chock full of shaman and lacking monks.