Got the itch again - big let down

[Amuk]

Went in for some sweet red99 action pvp in Solb for the first time since months ago, and got first cast rooted with 130 mr - I see the resist code is still garbage... is Null still worken on this over the past year or has he just given up haha.

[Amuk]

My rogues fairly geared, how are casuals supposed to attain over 130 MR - and why are melee's expected to be max gear before starting to pvp - and why am I asking this so late into classic.

Just a few questions etc troll as u wish.

[runlvlzero]

Y u pvping alone on your rogue?

Can I have his gear?

[karsten]

having just gotten back after like six months i have noticed that roots get resisted a lot more than the used to -- not saying its fixed, but definitely changed

[Dullah]

Legit questions. We've been asking them again in the resist thread hoping somehow we might get a last minute fix on resists with kunark. Seems like Null is happy with his custom set and has retired.

[heartbrand]

I dunno I can't seem to land a single root on anyone in nihilum even with tash im thinking you just got unlucky

[Vayder]

Went in for some sweet red99 action pvp in Solb for the first time since months ago, and got first cast rooted with 130 mr - I see the resist code is still garbage... is Null still worken on this over the past year or has he just given up haha.

Clearly a large enough sample set to make a well-informed decision

[Nirgon]

Shouldnt have any chance of landing at 110mr lol ridiculous

[Dullah]

110 MR means about 1 in 7 - or if theres a few casters targeting you it translates to 100% chance of getting rooted after their 2nd cast.

[Coan]

Die in pvp...blame the system. Viable strat bros

[Rushmore]

Went in for some sweet red99 action pvp in Solb for the first time since months ago, and got first cast rooted with 130 mr - I see the resist code is still garbage... is Null still worken on this over the past year or has he just given up haha.

Not saying Stasis is wrong. But I like the custom resists. Root should land every once in awhile. Be happy to show you that with 130 resist it probably lands 1 out of 10 times.

[SamwiseBanned]

Went in for some sweet red99 action pvp in Solb for the first time since months ago, and got first cast rooted with 130 mr - I see the resist code is still garbage... is Null still worken on this over the past year or has he just given up haha.

there is always a chance of bring rooted bro. I have 30 mr and resisted 2 roots in a row which allowed me to escape the zerg. shit is random bra. see how much MR Teruoh has because 3 of us were chain rooting and it wouldnt stick.

[Rushmore]

Root Happens!

[Tycko]

3 of us were chain rooting and it wouldnt stick.

PVP Pro Strategy. You guys are putting in work!

[Dullah]

Its not random. You cast a few roots, one is likely going to stick. Considering you were basically immune to root at 80mr on live, its bad. Eventually, everyone will realize why this is bad as they come to understand how pvp works.

[Nirgon]

It's just mind boggling that this hasn't been fixed yet.

My experience on VZTZ was "ok well one cure poison removes ebolt... cancel magic removes any single buff no matter what.. root lands on high magic... fuck this!"

When will we get the working classic pvp box

[SamwiseBanned]

1 cure poison curing Ebolt would be tite

[Nizzarr]

We're also missing the level based PVP resists. a 42 shouldnt land shit on a 50 with minimum resists. I think it used the same formula as for mobs on live.

[Nirgon]

Player resists and mob resists are completely different calculations and have different values. Christ do I need to find it again and just post it for everyone? Not like it'd make a difference.

[Nirgon]

OK here's how it works and has examples of the "unresistable" type spells in PvP. This also explains why in Planes of Power I had people grouped with bards and very uber gear completely resist goddamn everything from a wizard I played on Rallos.

""IE:
This covers all unresistable spells.
Spell: Tashina (60)
ID: 676
Resist: Unresistable
(this spell is unresistable barring certain factors.) (see below)
PVP resist(base): 5 (if player is 10 levels or more above caster)
PVP resist(max): 12 (if player is 10 levels or more below caster)
pvpresistcalc: 101 (beat this number to resist).

result for lvl 12 enc vs. lvl 22 Player:
calc is 101
base is 5
result : lands, 106 is number to beat but has no resist... so the target is deemed 101 resist points


Spell: Immobilize (39)
ID: 132
Resist: Magic, 0 (standard resists apply)
PVP resist(base): 50
PVP resist(max): -5
pvpresistcalc: 101

result for lvl 39 enc vs. lvl 49 Player:
calc is 101
base is -5
result : does NOT lands, 101 is number to beat but has no resist... so the target is deemed 95 resist points (-5 due to level difference)

Spell: Rapture (59)
ID: 1692
Resist: Magic
PVP Resists(base): -300 <- ten levels lower
PVP Resist(Max): -400 <- ten levels higher then caster
PVP Resist calc: 135< number to beat the spell's effect out-right

result: in addition to the level cap of the spell (affects creatures/people up to lvl 61)
1.) target is 10 levels lower, -400 is their starting point. so they would need a 535 Magic resist to outright resist the spell
2.) target is 10 levels higher, -300 is their starting point, they would need a resist of 435 to outright resist the spell.

Spell:Gasping Embrace (47)
Resist: Magic
PVP Resists(base): -42 <- ten levels lower
PVP Resist(Max): -57 <- ten levels higher then caster
PVP Resist calc: 133< number to beat the spell's effect out-right

result:
1.) target is 10 levels lower, -57 is their starting point. so they would need a 190 Magic resist to outright resist the spell
2.) target is 10 levels higher, -42 is their starting point. so they would need a 175 Magic resist to outright resist the spell.

with the exception of unresistable spells, in PVP there is a 10.5% chance to resist the spell if you do not meet the saving value.
conversely there is a 5.25% chance of the spell landing anyway.
with damaging spells the power of them or "how hard they hit" if they land is directly correlated to how close they came to the number. minimum of 25% dmg.

so if the spell lands it does at least 25% dmg (partial resists).
if 75%+ of the "to beat" number is reached and the spell lands then 25% dmg is incured.

these partial resists come in 25% of spell dmg, 50% and 75%

There's of course much more to this involving complex algorithms using these variables, but this should be enough, hope it helps."


This isn't even up for debate and I can get the exact values. It's based on the exact code/how it functioned on live. So, "Sssh" even before you start.

http://makingspacethejourneyout.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/shh.jpg?w=490&h=348
No one wants to be friends and get this process moving or really even gives a shit. Maybe I'll try posting it on the LoZ boards.

[Nirgon]

As proof and no I don't have a hard drive from 13 years ago because I didn't see myself getting into this.

A naked player with no buffs or gear has a chance to completely resist an elemental based spell as above.

You can look on the RZ thing in my sig for a character Numlar, an RL friend of mine who COMPLETELY RESISTED a conflagaration I casted on him outside of Sol B. He had freshly died, no buffs, no gear.

Case closed, end of convo. No more wondering.

[Nirgon]

And for the magic 3rd "rage" post:

Yes, this proves that root line was completely and always resisted at a certain resist value by players. Fix!

[Cwall]

damn *****

[Nirgon]

Yeah I gotta keep you kids in line with your EQ know how. Sorry I hadta get drastic.

I don't play here but Christ fix some of this shit and I and others might.

I'll now leave you to your regularly scheduled "Nirgon is on your ignore list" ignorant-yet-pompous-dumbfuckery.

[Wamorn]

My SK has 99 mr unbuffed and has had 2,roots land ever. Resists seem fine to me.

[Nirgon]

Experience would say otherwise from people I talked to also.

Try having it spammed on you 200 times and see how many land.

[mindsculptor]

I didn't play classic pvp, but I have to say I am shocked that it was coded in pvp so that there was an actual probability of 0 at any level of mr for a spell landing. Pretty much everything in EQ is governed by a "roll", particularly resists. I think it makes way more sense to have resists modify that roll than oh look I hit the magic number for mr enchanters can do nothing to me but dispell me now.

You guys act as if melee are super underpowered in pvp atm, but that is not at all the case. Root and snare have shorter durations in pvp and both are resisted so often that it is even questionable to cast them at all if facing off against someone of equal or higher level with just the most basic resist items.

[Amuk]

It's not about being super underpowered - like I said a max gear melee, buffed will most likely resist cc spells. I just don't understand why they're making it required to be fully geared/buffed to be where you woulda been on live with 90 MR.

It just creates that super geared - semi geared gap, and most people will fight fully geared nihilum melee and figure everythings fine.

My nostalgic class is a rogue, and with this resist system I really can't even chance going in solo on anything with how it is. I can't even imagine a monk without mithril/drt/all the other MR shit.

[Nirgon]

Its also not about over/underpowered or gear or anything else. It's about root spam being a viable tactic here and it never existed in classic. It's not how pvp is supposed to work. The VZTZ "shit boxes" had this same problem with jacked resist rates on spells that completely change the pvp.

I'm totally FOR item loot but NO WAY with broken root/snare/blind.

[Mornin3.0]

nirgon can you condense all your post into 10 or less words so I will actually read it/maybe care....

[Nirgon]

I can't explain and provide sufficient examples of how classic resists worked in 10 words.

But there's a lot of people who think they have the answer in 0 words.

[Vayder]

Nirgon, based on your explanation 0 roots should land at 51mr in pvp assuming even levels right?

pvpresistcalc: 101
pvpresistbase: 50
pvpresistcap: 33

101 to beat, at 50 to start = 51mr needed

compared to say pyrocuror which is basically unresistable:

pvpresistcalc: 135
pvpresistbase: -162
pvpresistcap: -194
resistadjust: -100


135 to beat, -100 resistadjust, -162 to start = 397fr needed

However if this method is correct then the following things would also be true:

Immune to Ice Comet at 117cr
Immune to Lava Bolt at 107fr
Immune to Venom of the Snake at 96pr
Immune to Anarchy at 71mr

[Maybach 2.0]

Nirgon, based on your explanation 0 roots should land at 51mr in pvp assuming even levels right?

pvpresistcalc: 101
pvpresistbase: 50
pvpresistcap: 33

101 to beat, at 50 to start = 51mr needed

compared to say pyrocuror which is basically unresistable:

pvpresistcalc: 135
pvpresistbase: -162
pvpresistcap: -194
resistadjust: -100


135 to beat, -100 resistadjust, -162 to start = 397fr needed

However if this method is correct then the following things would also be true:

Immune to Ice Comet at 117cr
Immune to Lava Bolt at 107fr
Immune to Venom of the Snake at 96pr
Immune to Anarchy at 71mr

I think his point is that your math is correct, yet roots still land when they shouldn't.

[Dullah]

Rooted and snared first and 2nd try yesterday with 120+ mr. Also chain stuns landed without a single resist with 90+ mr (tashed).

Its just sad. One day nilbog may go in and adjust it himself when he realizes how far from classic (and terrible) the current system is.

[heartbrand]

Rooted and snared first and 2nd try yesterday with 120+ mr. Also chain stuns landed without a single resist with 90+ mr (tashed).

Its just sad. One day nilbog may go in and adjust it himself when he realizes how far from classic (and terrible) the current system is.

Yup.

[Vayder]

I think his point is that your math is correct, yet roots still land when they shouldn't.

But my question still stands. If that's the case then if I have ~100 in each resist I should be able to ignore basically everything a caster can do to me.

[SamwiseBanned]

if only there was a way for melees to remove root.

[Maybach 2.0]

But my question still stands. If that's the case then if I have ~100 in each resist I should be able to ignore basically everything a caster can do to me.

I played TZ on live, NO player EVER was "immune" to anything. One of the officers in Pandemonium had Twink Dwarf Rogue that would just RAPE everyone in OT (he had a goofy name too.. pissing me off I cant remember it). The ONE time I got a Darkness to land on him i ended up killing him. I cant tell you how many times he killed me, it was lots. His resist gear was nuts when i inspected his corpse.

tl;dr : On live, Resist Twinks were rarely cast on because that was classic era EQ, and we all played it and loved it. That's not the same here, even though mathmatically it should be. Thusly, system is broke, because we all eat dicks on not getting YT, Duck Interrupts blah blah because "this is a classic server" yet the questionably most important system mechanic of the game is broken as fuck.

Is AC still all fucked up too? I remember that being the hawt topic /wrists theme of forums when red launched.

[Dullah]

AC doesn't seem to be broken. I hit clothies and get hit wearing cloth very hard. The melee dmg against people in plate is considerably lower.

[Amuk]

if only there was a way for melees to remove root.

Pure melee can't channel pumice with even the shittiest melee able to just sit there and attack, which is why noobs have been doing good on this server since it's beginning.

Don't depend on skill - depend on cc/numbers, lame - didn't attempt playing kunark for this one reason, and it doesn't seem that Null even accepts there's a problem...

Just noticed this thread still alive so I figured I'd throw my 2 cents in why I didn't play my rogue for kunark - this isn't classic EQ, this is some fucked up custom feeling shit with basically no population - PASS.

[SamwiseBanned]

i dunno i see it from both sides. i mean to make a chanter just a dispell bot seems pretty dumb. I think without CC pvp becomes a nukefest which seems to be less tactical and more zerg. Maybe the current resists need more tweaking but to ruleout any root/cc at 120 mr seems kinda ridiculous. classic or not.

[lethdar]

i dunno i see it from both sides. i mean to make a chanter just a dispell bot seems pretty dumb. I think without CC pvp becomes a nukefest which seems to be less tactical and more zerg. Maybe the current resists need more tweaking but to ruleout any root/cc at 120 mr seems kinda ridiculous. classic or not.

lol what.

Seriously the worst post i've read about everquest pvp, you're a moron.

[hagard]

lol what.

Seriously the worst post i've read about everquest pvp, you're a moron.

Full blown retard

[SamwiseBanned]

lol what.

Seriously the worst post i've read about everquest pvp, you're a moron.

explain yourself bluebie

[SamwiseBanned]

so at 120 mr you should be safe from any type of CC?

[hagard]

have you ever played EQ pvp before this box?

[SamwiseBanned]

I guess Nihilum is the only ones who have figured out the MR balance problem because they are pretty much un rootable, guess we all need to play better.

[SamwiseBanned]

the main thing that I have a problem with is that currently resist dont check level difference. I've had a 16 sk land everything on me in a /duel at lvl 49.

[hagard]

HAVE YOU EVER PLAYED EQ PVP OUTSIDE R99

[SamwiseBanned]

this is my first emu, played a bit on rz/sz but that was 10+ years ago.

[Amuk]

Yeah I mean it's fine, he wanted enchanters to be useful, and bards not to be unkillable - and TBH I doubt you're stocking any golem wands Sam, so you're probably fighting buffed/fully geared toons - which is exactly what I said in my main post.

I remember in classic/kunark/velious you didn't need to be a super nerd to have fun pvping - I had like 156 unbuffed MR on my rogue during velious and solo pvpd all day, I tried with 130 and got first cast rooted here, I doubt the 26 mr is going to make me unccable like live, which is all I'm missing on my rogue two jac rings.

I remember fucken meleeing on my shaman, jousting with a gator maul rollen with about 100 mr and most of the time I was safe from shit - try that here you're getting snared and fucked up if you arn't fighting 1v1.

This server just doesn't live up to nostalgia memories of TZ, and TBH that's the only reason I really got re-hooked into this game, it certainly isn't the awsome grind that I remember haven so much fun doin back in the day.

[Dullah]

You do realize, for a melee to achieve 120mr, they are basically sacrificing stats, especially str (which gives them MUCH more damage) in order to not be rooted. Not only that, but stacking tons of mr leaves your other resists much lower as well, so those nukes are hitting for nearly full damage just to avoid being CC'd.

It sucks.

[SamwiseBanned]

im all for it if this is what everyone wants. I just hope it doesnt turn into one of those things people regret wishing for. Will definately be a lot more plugging and a fuck ton more melees.

[SamwiseBanned]

You do realize, for a melee to achieve 120mr, they are basically sacrificing stats, especially str (which gives them MUCH more damage) in order to not be rooted. Not only that, but stacking tons of mr leaves your other resists much lower as well, so those nukes are hitting for nearly full damage just to avoid being CC'd.

It sucks.

at the same time melee dps doesnt depend on mana which is what casters sacrifice for mr gear. I know there was a certain point where I literally did not have enough mana to nuke down a fully buffed sk (pre starfire) while I was wearing all Wis gear. in fact i generally only wear wis gear because without the mana i wouldnt be killing squat. its a sacrifice that ive paid for dearly.

[CrystalBlue]

eeek, if they make people invulnerable to CC after 120MR can I please switch out my enchanter for a rogue?

I think the rest of the server will need to be allowed to switch classes too.

[SamwiseBanned]

if these changes are made and i come back ill probably come back on my bard so i can zip around and annoy people without worry when 20 Nilly are trying to root/mez me

[hagard]

You do realize, for a melee to achieve 120mr, they are basically sacrificing stats, especially str (which gives them MUCH more damage) in order to not be rooted. Not only that, but stacking tons of mr leaves your other resists much lower as well, so those nukes are hitting for nearly full damage just to avoid being CC'd.

It sucks.

for once i actually agree with dullah

[SamwiseBanned]

so ac should work in pvp as well (almost certain it doesnt)

[SamwiseBanned]

i also think a lot of people exaggerate the issue. Like i said when i have my mr buff up i have around 70-80mr. I resist roughly half the roots that ive noticed. root happens. please provide a SS of your MR and video of you being rooted 7/10 times or w/e. If you have a 50 melee ill help you test it out.

[Awwalike]

dam people really ridin that nilly D. of course u can't root us we were all given immunity to run speed changes at char select/

[Porkchop]

I resist stuff with 99mr quite a bit so I think its working alright.

[Swampfeet]

Thought things were ok, until I got 2nd cast rooted at 143 MR.

Shits dumb sorry to say lol.

[gloinz]

levels play a huge roll i think or maybe im just superstitious

[Dullah]

eeek, if they make people invulnerable to CC after 120MR can I please switch out my enchanter for a rogue?

I think the rest of the server will need to be allowed to switch classes too.

This does not, or at least should not include mez CC. Mez has a much lower negative resist check than root/snare/stuns. Also, at 60 theres unresistable mez.

[Smedy]

I can't really voice my opinon about resists as my resists are shit. But if you're getting rooted at 140 mr by someone equal to your level there needs to be a little weaking on the resist curve.

Last when i checked with Null the resist curve around 140 would make root land about 1 in 10 which is alright i guess.

[SearyxTZ]

should be landing 1 in 20 @ 100 MR


if people are spamming root in pvp then its probably not enough

[Dullah]

Not only that, but it seems bugged when lower levels cast. People who are like 8 levels below you seem to land roots with even higher frequency. Samwise was rooting and snaring me like 8 levels below first or second try with 120+ mr.

[runlvlzero]

Not only that, but it seems bugged when lower levels cast. People who are like 8 levels below you seem to land roots with even higher frequency. Samwise was rooting and snaring me like 8 levels below first or second try with 120+ mr.

I had the same thing happening with light blue mobs casting in mm, landing fully, were the dark blues would get resisted 99% of the time

[Smedy]

guess there's glitches in the matrix pals

[Nirgon]

But I like the custom resists.

You also think Noah's Ark is real.