Item loot thread

[Nirgon]

We can play every other MMO out there right now for pvp without item loot.

When can PvP become 4 levels?

What's the hold up with getting item loot if Nilbog is in favor of it?

When is this server actually going to be red EQ?!

[heartbrand]

I've given this some more thought and my conclusion is that item loot would absolutely decimate this server pop. I've been helping a lot of new comers to the server in VV, and there's no way most of these people would keep on grinding if they lost their shiny loots every time they got ganked by twinked out chars killing them with OOR healers. Terribad idea at this point.

[Tradesonred]

As i think this will never happen (I think Nilbog said it wouldnt), i have an alternative solution ive proposed a couple of times on the forums.

You hail a NPC like the priest of discord, and it flags you as a "deep red" pvper. Once you are flagged, you cannot flag back for a fixed amount of time, i propose 1 week.

You can only loot, and be looted by, players who have been flagged "deep red" by the item loot NPC. There is no way for anyone to know whos deep red until you kill him and see if you can take 1 item.

I know there would be many ways to exploit this, feel free to point them out and suggest tweaks to this (or say its a shit idea that will never work, and point out your reasoning).

I think this would spice up pvp at some point, i for one would have fun rolling a toon with throwaway gear to pvp. New blood coming into the server could then actually sell the mid-tier loot they get for plats to older player gearing out these kinds of toons.

Yes i know, there will be naked gank squads. But its optional, so who cares.

You could even organize events in a zone (like the test CTF pvp zone on blue) where gear drops like on Rallos when you die. With rewards that goes along with the risk.

[Nirgon]

Yeah I'm just looking for a Rallos Zek rule set I guess.

I'll keep looking for that perfect server or play any of the other MMOs without item loot for now (read: yeah right).

I know people, myself included on live that lost "shiny loots" playing and didn't quit. *Shrug* gives people something to do other than farm camps and xp for progression and really promotes a PK/Anti-PK mentality.

[heartbrand]

You have much more resilience than do the players here. We've had new comers already who quit because they got corpse camped at level 20.

[Haul]

Ya I love Rallos Zek item loot and ruleset, good chance it could hurt population, but you never know.

[Vile]

Nirgon, I agree with almost everything you say, but as it's already been said, item loot would destroy the population.

Surprisingly, the server has some good momentum right now, it's just unfortunate for me (but not really), I rather spend my time building out new sites and make moar $$$ than log on any box..

Might be on this weekend if I am lucky.. still need that port bros.

[Dullah]

Item loot would never work here. Maybe on a server where everyone consented to it going in, but not after the server began with a different ruleset. The number of players who enjoyed item loot were the smallest minority among EQ players, and after 13 years, those players are all but absent.

Keep crusading for classic EQ, but this feature is likely never going to see the light of day again on a populated EQ server.

[Supreme]

This message is hidden because Nirgon is on your ignore list.

[Vile]

Atleast they've made some great changes here...

Pras Nilbog for sure. He's been up to bat for you bros getting shit done.

YT would probably complete things for most people.. I couldn't care either way about YT, I actually enjoy seeing screen shots posted on the forums with some hilarious editing.

And if that 50% bonus could stay in throughout Kunark, I might be able to hit lvl 25 one day.

Good luck bros.

[SearyxTZ]

Agree that item loot would kill server pop. That's just reality.


Opt-in item loot flag would be awesome though. No drawbacks to that one.

[Vile]

Would need some interesting logic...

player_01 = flagged for item loot
player_02 = flagged for item loot
player_03 = not flagged for item loot

If player_01 and player_02 fight with no interaction from anyone else the victor should be able to loot an item from the other player.

If player_03 interferes with the fight at all, no item loot should be allowed, but it could get tricky here... you can see the possibly "exploitable" scenarios here...

How would you propose opt-in item loot would work if player_03 interferes?

[Nirgon]

No opt in or opt out.

There's such things as no drop gear which become more valuable and with charm working so reliably on planar mobs here (it really shouldn't) anyone should be able to farm the shit out of at least plane of fear for a full suit of no drop.

Coupled with fixes to root / stun / blind / snare... think its a good thing.

Not to mention... you know... you CAN bag things if attacked or just don't want to risk your resist / droppable haste gear.

[SearyxTZ]

Speed-bagging your items while leaving numlock autorun on was always such a retarded mechanic.

I liked item loot for the higher risk/reward but the fact is it will cut the population because it's too hardcore for most people to deal with.

[Nirgon]

Helps create some PKs to run around for you all to get anti and up and arms about. PvP for items is great for the unguilded, gives them something to do to get things other than camp a mob for 4 hours.

Not to mention it makes twinks afraid to risk their gear and not just wear tranix crowns and a full boat of gear without fear of reprisal. I think Nilbog sees all the good reasons to do it and I agree with the rest of you up until the point resists are fixed on the afore mentioned. If root/snare/stun/blind are ever fixed it should go in bros.

[Greegon]

fuck it, just make every nihilum tagged member lootable.
perfect solution :D

[Greegon]

double post-- but btw guys, if you havent popped back on red pvp thriving anyways. corpses errwhere

[Nizzarr]

sure ill make some naked wizards tagged for item loot.

You guys are fucking dumb. There was a reason RZ was the least populated server.

[Tradesonred]

sure ill make some naked wizards tagged for item loot.

You guys are fucking dumb. There was a reason RZ was the least populated server.

If your only input is going to be "You guyz are fookin dumbz" just spare us and stfu plz, this isnt rant and flames

P.S. Rallos was populated enough to have 200+ players in EK during the 2001 halloween event

[BigSlip]

sure ill make some naked wizards tagged for item loot.

You guys are fucking dumb. There was a reason RZ was the least populated server.

Nizzarr, i asked you if you were the nizzarr from LoS. You said no.

Whats up w the avatar dawg?

[Lazortag]

There's already been threads about item loot. There were great arguments against it in those threads. Making a new thread isn't necessary (in fact it's kind of obnoxious), we know it's a bad idea already.

As for opt-in item loot, I think that would be really cool but I wouldn't lose sleep if we didn't have it. It would be great for players like me who enjoy item loot but don't want it to be the default ruleset of the server.

[Nirgon]

Yeah bring your naked wizards who die to an ebolt :P that I'm sure won't be carrying cure poison potions.

Or bring your naked wizard up against a druid/necro in full resist gear

We'll hafta see how you do! =)

Or maybe your naked wizard can acquire some planar loots...

Big resist items should definitely provide an advantage but should also be a risk. Plane of hate is out and Kunark is coming, replacing diamond resist gear if you do manage to lose it before you bag it or gate shouldn't be the end of the world.

I'm just looking for something with Rallos classic pvp that isn't a non-item loot game like everything else out there right now.

[Lazortag]

Nirgon, I'm just gonna put this here:

www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=80885&

[Nirgon]

Glaringly broken resist / melee mechanics (hm!!), cheating (hm!!!) and a box wipe killed the iteration of VZ/TZ that I was on.

This box, because of the reputation of blue, had a big jump start.

[Mornin3.0]

NOT CLASSIC
NOT FUCKING CLASSIC
THIS IS A CLASSIC SERVER
FUCK OFF
NOT CLASSIC NOOB
CANT HANDLE CLASSIC EQ
SCUM SHIT BAG NOT CLASSIC FUCK
NOT CLASSIC

[Nizzarr]

Nizzarr, i asked you if you were the nizzarr from LoS. You said no.

Whats up w the avatar dawg?

What?

[Supreme]

Nizzarr, i asked you if you were the nizzarr from LoS. You said no.

Whats up w the avatar dawg?

Nizzarr was a LoSer.

Lots of LoSers around here lurking.

[Porkchop]

Item loot is fun, but it would destroy the server in the end.

[Nirgon]

Item loot is fun, but it would destroy the server in the end.

No, tons of other stuff did that already lol

[Vile]

slogs up in here

[Porkchop]

Maybe we should have item loot weekends. Or item loot zones.

[mindsculptor]

Maybe we should have item loot weekends. Or item loot zones.

welcome to the zone full of naked casters

[Nirgon]

You act there isn't no drop and it would be completely hopeless for melees if root/snare/stun/blind were fixed.

[runlvlzero]

If you believe in item loot you could always offer up any one of your items to the guy that killed you, i'm sure they would be more then happy to oblige you ;p

I agree its fun, but every EMU server that had it eventually died even though it really wasnt because of item loot.

Not that my opinion matters... I have no clue about this server I just rolled a toon ;p

[HippoNipple]

Yeah I'm just looking for a Rallos Zek rule set I guess.

I'll keep looking for that perfect server or play any of the other MMOs without item loot for now (read: yeah right).

I know people, myself included on live that lost "shiny loots" playing and didn't quit. *Shrug* gives people something to do other than farm camps and xp for progression and really promotes a PK/Anti-PK mentality.

People that never played it have a hard time understanding it. It really is all about the PK/Anti-PK. Right now it is Zerg/Anti-Zerg mentality and it is boring. Eventually the Anti-Zerg becomes the zerg and it goes back and forth.

Item loot actually pairs people with the same mind set in guilds. Personality shows and shit gets real.

[HippoNipple]

With that said I have 0 faith in this server ever going in that direction. I am content where it is, but will always vote towards YT, item loot, etc.

[runlvlzero]

Hippo you are pretty spot on, item loot shows guild loyalty, affiliation and promotes good players building a community.

Without it, it takes longer but I says someone who's been on either side for a year and put up with w/e from there has earned their ***'s to be considered worthy oponents.

Its far far worse on a pure blue server ;p Were people PVP by KSing and generally being asshats. Here at least you got to set the bar and get trolled by real trolls rather then PL'd 5 year olds.

Not sayin there aint exceptions...

[Nirgon]

Every emu server without it died too

[genrah]

Item loot adds risk vs. reward. Having little to no death penalty on a pvp server is kinda pointless Don't like pvp death penalty, go play blue.

Plus it several elements like a black market for gear, pursuit of no drop items, not to mention more thrill to the battle.

Saying item loot will kill a server that usually averages sub 50 people on it is absurd. I think more people do not play on this server due to a lack of item loot than people realize.

For instance, the DayZ mod has full item loot and perma death. That game just hit a million users.

There is a thirst for hardcore death penalty out there, too bad we cant get an EQ PvP server that realizes this and only straddles the fence between blue and red ruleset. Actually lets just call it a purple server from here on, its more fitting as it seems to want to cater to blues.

Rallos Zek around during Kunark era was possibly the best gaming experience one could have in this game. Nuff said.

-g

[Advisor]

I am Rallos Zek, played the majority of my EQ career there...

Item loot will not work here, too many cry babies and pussies.


Server needs to start with item loot at lvl 1 so people can loot leather and cheer and loot fine steel and retire, only then, will you be prepared, for the brutal, insane, awesome, pvp that is, item loots!

[Nirgon]

They're ready drop it on em. Everyone claims to be so good what's to be afraid of.

[Mornin3.0]

As much as I wish this was a classic EQ pvp server... its not... and I also believe item loot will not work on any EMU box nor was it successful on live... as fun as it was.. It was just flat out unsuccessful for the greater success of the server... sad...


all of nirgons quotes in his sig are fucking hilarious btw... retards...

[Kamid]

item loot isnt going to happen on this server sadly. i would play if it was. someone should make a server with item loot and like 20x xp.

[Kevynne]

ya item loot is a wonderous thing and i think like one weekend out of the month should be an item loot weekend.
it does show true colors and guild loyalties
risk and reward
if your too pussy to loose your gear autorun+bagging.

but it might ruin the server.
if anything make like a beta for it and let people who dint play RZ experience it see it and then after/during beta have a poll for it.
if it passes success!
if not oh well life moves on and pvp will pvp and eq will eq

and the reason(i believe) the pvp lvl range is so high is because of the low population.
but on the other hand that range also lwoers the population b/c people can jsut get buttfucked.
so i'd like to see the 4lvl pvp thing eventually... hell maybe include that on the previously mentioned item loot beta idea

[runlvlzero]

pretty much /agreed

Also i'm pretty sure that allot of the folks on the server now know what its about. i havn't seen much rage here about not having it, just that it "might be bad"

But I dunno I kinda liked SZ's 1-60 (or whatever it was at the time) can buttfuck eachother any day of the week rule. But... at the end game levels it should be enough that its not easy to bring out of range healers/ch'ers to a fight or w/e

But if Item-loot was added, FFA no level range pvp could be a bad thing more then likely ;)

I'm actually pretty indifferent towards the level range thing thats just my tiny personal opinion. Its not based on much factual experience or professional research.

[Smedy]

I am Rallos Zek, played the majority of my EQ career there...

Item loot will not work here, too many cry babies and pussies.


Server needs to start with item loot at lvl 1 so people can loot leather and cheer and loot fine steel and retire, only then, will you be prepared, for the brutal, insane, awesome, pvp that is, item loots!

ü talk mad talk broseph, ain't walking the walk http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=70585

[Cwall]

reminds me of the rage tells he sent me that one time about working at tiger direct

[Nirgon]

Day Z > CoD
Item loot > no item loot

Day Z is becoming its own game and its FULL item loot. I'm sure all the bluebies here, if it were put to a vote on that game would have sent it down the drain with their "no item loot" business.

[runlvlzero]

DayZ is an FPS

I never played DayZ cause i like quake 1-3 which is also full item loot

DayZ sux

CS with other people using wallhacks is funner

A bit diff in an MMO vs FPS afaik item loot effecting gameplay, but really your point is still pretty valid kinda maybe, in that are people hypocritical, yes.

[Nirgon]

Well item loot doesn't just kill everything brotha. That's my point.

Full item loot is definitely too hardcore for this EQ crowd. I'm saying 1 item loot is a great thing. You should have to risk your droppable gear for an advantage. It gives opportunity for gain through PvP.

All these MMOs out right now, even emulators are just so casual, mushy and soft. Shame this has to be one!

I guess I'll just have to wait for correct resist logic to go in before I start making this case. Root spam being viable sucks on any server, especially an item loot one.

[runlvlzero]

It would be really cool if we could figure out a way to build a server were everyone would be happy and we'd have the biggest population and best battles ;) I say this in earnest. I agree!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AGREEE!! AGReeeee!

But yeah while I can totally respect and understand your hardcoreness. I for one like to just float down the river and pick flowers occasionally.

But how one plays the game, is not dependent on the rules of the game. Therefore one can be hardcore with or without item loot. One may be casual with or without it. I'm pretty sure its been done both ways.

Yet I really do agree that item loot increases challenge. Which is semanticly different then casual vs hardcore (in my head). Its like being hard and fast or hard and slow.

I'm starting to get philisophical. ;)

Furthmore you are absolutely correct in single item vs full item is very different also. Single being allot more forgiving and fair. (I neglected to look at it this way)

I was never argueing that item loot was bad. Just trying to point out generalizations in the used analogy. I may have been succesful.

If Discord was brought back one day Ide roll a few toons on it at random occasions.

[Kevynne]

ia gree with the single item loot thing ^^
lol project 1999 Discord for me would be total hell :p im the dumbass who tends to die alot xD

[Balvodes]

Can someone please confirm that on Rallos Zek, at least in the early days, if an npc killed you, a pc could still loot you? I know I remember this happening, but I can't prove it. I could be crazy, but I swear I remember always asking my group to "lock my corpse" after we got killed by some mob. I'm pretty sure I remember Cyrux training sgs in oasis and looting people quite a bit... maybe I am completely nuts though.

[Old_PVP]

Can someone please confirm that on Rallos Zek, at least in the early days, if an npc killed you, a pc could still loot you? I know I remember this happening, but I can't prove it. I could be crazy, but I swear I remember always asking my group to "lock my corpse" after we got killed by some mob. I'm pretty sure I remember Cyrux training sgs in oasis and looting people quite a bit... maybe I am completely nuts though.

This is incorrect. I never remember players being able to loot you if an npc kills ya. Although you were able to /consent other players and they could loot everything (later changed to just being able to drag your corpse). This caused a lot of dick moves with people becoming blacklisted. You WERE able to loot weapons and hand held items early days of RZ on a pvp kill though, later changed to just gear.

Developers/GMs read this and take notes: Item loot is without a doubt, the most hardcore PVP mechanic that can be introduced on a server, and has been proven to survive and thrive in PVP communities. (Disregarding stupidly hardcore rulesets such as Discord, that just went full retard, and didn't last very long.)

I see some people saying that "item loot would be the death of the server/population". When there is no evidence that would suggest this. Sullon Zek had the lowest population on live, and they had EXP LOSS in pvp, without item loot. Rallos Zek started it all with being the first pvp server in EQ, and they were a thriving server full of guild wars all throughout it's history. And before someone starts flaming, I know SZ, TZ/VZ all had some badass PVP as well, I participated heavily in SZ particularly. (They were also team based, and thats an entirely different issue) My point is that item loot enriched, not destroyed, the pvp experience. There is actually more evidence to suggest this than there is otherwise.

Just take a look at Ultima Online, arguably one of the best pvp games of all time. Now take a trip down memory lane to some of your old pvp fights on Rallos Zek. (if you are oldschool enough) What made the pvp so memorable and exciting, and sometimes terrifying in both of these games? ITEM LOOT

The potential to lose your gear, completely changes the atmosphere of the game world. It's a sobering concept that changes attitudes, and ultimately is essential in creating the pk/anti-pk environment that we all love.

You all want to relive classic EQ? Well start with making memories, as gay as that sounds. Some of my most unforgettable gaming moments were focused around item loot and guild wars, political turmoil, and backstabbing. Item loot creates the best stories, and great pvp stories attracts new blood to the server. People will hear a story and think about how they want to get in on the fun.

No where else will you be able to loot a Fungi Tunic off anything besides the Myconid Spore King.

No where else will someone get blacklisted and shunned by the community for opportunistic pking a member of their own group to steal a FBSS.

No where else will you see players hastily bagging their gear, hoping not to be blinded before they die.

No where else will you be able to band together with others to take down an overpowered, overtwinked character, and truly make them pay.

No where else will you have an economy that doesn't get too big and out of control and over inflated.

No where else will the pk/anti-pk dynamic exist, other than an item loot server.

No where else do reputations matter more.

No where else will the underdogs stand a chance.


Sorry for the book. Wipe the server clean, start fresh, and start with item loot. It is absolutely essential to FFA pvp, and will save this server, one shiny loot at a time.

[Wolfgang]

no offense but RZ was trash and you know it. We need to lean closer to SZ rules with hard coded teams if you want to see any kind of population increase. FFA PvP servers are out there, this is nothing new. Let's try something that works for once.

[Nirgon]

Can someone please confirm that on Rallos Zek, at least in the early days, if an npc killed you, a pc could still loot you? I know I remember this happening, but I can't prove it. I could be crazy, but I swear I remember always asking my group to "lock my corpse" after we got killed by some mob. I'm pretty sure I remember Cyrux training sgs in oasis and looting people quite a bit... maybe I am completely nuts though.

You could loot someone if they were killed by another player for a while. Then they changed it to only the person with the killing blow.

Oh hey another let's split the 100 pop server into 3 teams discussion. That would be the best idea. I'll be making the ogre SK.

[RoguePhantom]

no offense but RZ was trash and you know it. We need to lean closer to SZ rules with hard coded teams if you want to see any kind of population increase. FFA PvP servers are out there, this is nothing new. Let's try something that works for once.

[heartbrand]

Item loot WILL kill this server. Who does item loot favor? The post makes it seem like it helps out the little guy giving them a shot @ raid loot they couldn't get on their own. In actual practice however, it will lead to them getting crushed. Nihilum is wearing mainly no drop armor, and it will be even worse with VP. They have trak teeth @ their disposal, conflag wands, etc., the other guys don't. The little guys will get raped with item loot.

Have people also seen how buggy this server still is, particularly in zones such as TT? Do you really want to log into TT, be zone bugged, get PKed, and lose your stuff? The dynamic of this server is too far along to introduce something like item loot at this point, if anything, it will be the biggest recruitment booster for nihilum you ever could put in, for those concerned about that. If you wanted to have an item loot server, the time to do it was @ launch of the server when everyone was on equal footing and people could make their reputations, etc.

[Nirgon]

Item loot will kill this server without a classic resist set.

Imagine a world where all you had to wear to avoid getting root/blind/stun spammed was a shielding buff, or some cheap MR jewelry or if you were so lucky some no drop with magic resist. It worked, tons of people liked it and then left after PoP ruined the resist system and everything else in PvP (lol safe zones).

The risk vs reward for wearing 120 resist all and being immune to most spells, but if killed, dropped a "mad decent" resist piece like a frog crown?

Your warrior has full hate and a monsoon I think HB? You'd be doing real nice.

To everyone against item loot I say go back to WoW.

To everyone who wants SZ style rules? We need to have 98% more population, no training rules etc.

I don't think Nihilum is going to fear or hate unless a raid mob is up, shaddap.

[Old_PVP]

Item loot WILL kill this server. Who does item loot favor? The post makes it seem like it helps out the little guy giving them a shot @ raid loot they couldn't get on their own. In actual practice however, it will lead to them getting crushed. Nihilum is wearing mainly no drop armor, and it will be even worse with VP. They have trak teeth @ their disposal, conflag wands, etc., the other guys don't. The little guys will get raped with item loot.

Have people also seen how buggy this server still is, particularly in zones such as TT? Do you really want to log into TT, be zone bugged, get PKed, and lose your stuff? The dynamic of this server is too far along to introduce something like item loot at this point, if anything, it will be the biggest recruitment booster for nihilum you ever could put in, for those concerned about that. If you wanted to have an item loot server, the time to do it was @ launch of the server when everyone was on equal footing and people could make their reputations, etc.

Well obviously a wipe would be needed and reroll the server with item loot in place. That much is a given. At this point, what difference would a wipe make? The server is dead anyway and only the no lifers will be affected. Its not like we will LOSE players by having a wipe, the no lifers and poop sockers will come back as they always do. To gain a decent population, we must wipe and get it right from the beginning.

[Nirgon]

Some people do have too much time put in.

I don't see why enabling it as a classic feature that needed development time allocated would be such a big deal. The resist fixes would need to go in first though.

[huggies3]

pretty sure they are sticking to the i dont give a fuck attitude for r99 and hoping everyone quits

going to log in now and kill some rhinos bros , still workin the easy side of OT and looking for sponsorship

[Awwalike]

put this in and all your loots are mine