Multi questing still going strong... so says the economy?

[Toodles]

Multi-questing serves only two purposes

A) Making money
B) Holding onto items for 'friends' or 'guildies' - or by extension holding onto items with one character of yours for another. You were there but you weren't really there.

Money and questing is a pretty large taboo in MMORPG. The fact many quest items were NO DROP is the common sense part.

Simply because Sony introduced MQ, doesn't mean it's a good thing, and certainly we know they introduced a lot of things that weren't good.

And as for holding items for other people; that's fine, if the item is not usable by someone already with you.

Unfortunately people tend to overlook this. I've seen countless groups now where an item can be used by someone in the group, but they've been told to random/roll because it's multi-questable - as if that suggests it transcends need before greed.

Regardless of the argument classic versus non classic, decency and courtesy do not have to be void of group experiences just because a lot of items are able to be multi-quested.


We should have never had MQ here, it only serves to better the greedy, lazy or not-logged in. Dropping the MQs forces people to loot their own items or farm legitimate sellable items.

Isn't that half of what made the game appealing to those who like difficult experiences?

Apologies if I've ever been grouped with someone whom lost their item because I didn't speak up against it or couldn't prevent it.
And I guess lastly, as a head's up - don't assume people will treat need before greed with any sort of respect because when classic was classic, need before greed was an attitude, not a button on screen.

[Itap]

Unfortunately people tend to overlook this. I've seen countless groups now where an item can be used by someone in the group, but they've been told to random/roll because it's multi-questable - as if that suggests it transcends need before greed.


This should never happen

[Soandso]

join date.....august 2012.... just sayin.....

[stonez138]

Yeah, he hasn't been around long enough to face the sad reality that there is no nbg on this server...

[Psionide]

so if I can sell an item for PP and get the item I NEED what is the difference?

[Itap]

so if I can sell an item for PP and get the item I NEED what is the difference?

because the person who is going to need it is going to use it, youre going to sell it.

[Arrisard]

Zero fucks over people crying in some deep dungeon because they want their pixels defaulted to them simply because they couldn't be troubled to ask how loot was being done or the person getting them there didn't say either because of some retarded social taboo that says "asking how loot is done in a random pickup group before shit actually drops means you're a loot whore".

Ask. If you don't like it, don't go. If you're asking someone to join you, you tell them when you ask them to come. If they don't like it, tell them not to come.

Otherwise you get these absolutely retarded discussions about the "moral ambiguity of profiting off multi-questing practices" (lol).

[planeofdreams]

so if I can sell an item for PP and get the item I NEED what is the difference?

Not saying I agree with the original poster, but I'm pretty sure all the "greed" in "need before greed" means is "I want this to sell for money." Everyone wants plat to upgrade their character but when the option occurs that an item that IS an upgrade drops then the "need" means "I can use it right now". We can argue day and night about whether or not upgrades in plat or items have the priority, but I think you're specifically missing the point when you redefine a pretty standard principle in mmo gaming.

[Orruar]

Multi-questing serves only two purposes

A) Making money
B) Holding onto items for 'friends' or 'guildies' - or by extension holding onto items with one character of yours for another. You were there but you weren't really there.


You forgot C) Using extra money a person has laying around to save many hours of camping some rare random quest piece, or obtaining an item that would otherwise be very difficult or impossible to obtain.

I'm not surprised you would leave out the person who benefits most from MQ'ing.

[Enderenter]

Unfortunately people tend to overlook this. I've seen countless groups now where an item can be used by someone in the group, but they've been told to random/roll because it's multi-questable - as if that suggests it transcends need before greed.


Seems to me the issue you have is with groups not being NBG (which most random groups are not). Not sure why you made a long thread about MQ contributing to this, since groups haven't been NBG on here for years.

[Kratzy]

MQ does have its proper and sometimes profitable uses. I too have been in groups that claim NBG is guild groups only (thats BS!) And just for any dummy who might read this and think they know better NEED BEFORE GREED DID NOT START IN World of Warcraft.......

If you are in a group and something drops that can make your group stronger right then and there, then you should make that intelligent choice. This is a social game, you make friends by being helpful and kind.

I am sick and tired of seeing the same people camping the same camp and selling the MQ. You might know who you are. After 4 or 5 sales of the same MQ how bout you just give it up for a month and figure out a different way to make the pp you obviously dont need.

If you long timers want this server to gain players you need to stop camping all the best gear to be sold to other long timers with multiple k pp in the bank. Us fresh starts have to gear up someway and I'm not going to be buying any MQ, so I'll be happy as can be when I don't see it anymore.

[Tarathiel]

this is why you rarely find me in a PUG, its kind of a douche move imo to try to roll on a quest item if someone in the group ACTUALLY needs. but the only cases i can even think this might be relevant would be the monk epic pipes and possibly rogue epic mqs. outside of that tho nbg is dumb, i would laugh at someone calling need on a heiro cloak or fungi tunic in a PUG.

[Psionide]

So just because a character can use that item RIGHT NOW instead of someone who can go make the plat doing the MQ then getting there item in EC somehow takes priority because someone wants instant gratification over someone who can go MQ then can the item THEY NEED. once again I don't see the distinction seems like a bunch of whining.

[Tasslehofp99]

Join a good guild and only group with your guildmates that way you know it will be NBG in your group, otherwise discuss it prior to killing shit and if your group dont wanna NBG then leave.

[Kratzy]

People hunt in zones where they usually know gear they can use drops. I'm sorry that you are unable to comprehend kindness and community.

Taking an item to sell to maybe buy something you want, rather than just go hunt down what you want seems counter intuitive. How many days/weeks does it take to wait for someone to hunt what you want so you can buy it, rather than just hunt it yourself for what you actually want?

[fullmetalcoxman]

People hunt in zones where they usually know gear they can use drops. I'm sorry that you are unable to comprehend kindness and community.

Taking an item to sell to maybe buy something you want, rather than just go hunt down what you want seems counter intuitive. How many days/weeks does it take to wait for someone to hunt what you want so you can buy it, rather than just hunt it yourself for what you actually want?

It depends what you want to buy I guess. It's a lot easier to get some money and go buy an item than camp it in most cases. Otherwise people would never buy anything, they would just go camp it themselves.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

This thread...smells like a KC pipe...

[Psionide]

^^^^^

[Nordenwatch]

money camps like seb cannot be NBG, otherwise there would be no non melees camping certain camps... also casters get shafted on NBG because many items that are worth a lot of money that a caster may need can be needed by most classes, obvious example here being a hierophant's cloak.

also who draws the distinction of who NEEDS something? lets say a RBG drops in seb, and a caster would get a stat upgrade from it and decides he/she deserves to need it. The melees in the NBG group would be furious because of the haste on it, but if it is an upgrade can they still need it?

This is why NBG is nonexistant outside of guild groups, if you want the item so bad offer the winner of the roll plat for it.

[Kratzy]

So, you have no casters that you've been nice enough to, that they want to join you in a camp for gear you can use and experience of the fun of grouping with you? So sad.

I have camped frenzy... as an enchanter, and I don't expect to get an FBSS. I have camped Cloaked Dhampyre, and not expected to get a HBC. I play for fun and to get higher level, anything you can camp, can drop loot. You get better groups when people have better gear, people have better gear when they don't have to stop and camp pp to buy something. This is EverQUEST after all.

I am not in a guild, and don't expect to be treated as less qualified for gear upgrades because I am un-guilded.

[Psionide]

Why wouldn't you expect to get a fbss you can go sell it and get some GEBS or something. Also, nobody said you be would treated bad because you were unguilded they said you join a guild and get a guild group if you expect NBG.

[Nordenwatch]

i believe everyone puts in the same time and arguably same effort to camp things when you're grouped. theres no reason one person should get something purely because they "Need" it more than others, not to mention the room for abuse in a NBG system.

rolling dice is luck, over time it should even out.

[Kratzy]

I wouldn't expect to get an FBSS, because if the tank in my group or the monk in my group can hit harder and faster, then we can kill more, more easily. If you can kill more easily, you can get loot more easily. If you help the tank, maybe next time that tank will let you know if theres room in a group that can use my skills. I don't need to take loot to make money in this game. I will take the loot no one wants and quest the rest of the items and sell those things in the game. I've made Lambent and Crafted pieces, that i cannot use, simply to sell them as profit since it was a no drop item and no one wanted it. I do not need the item others can use immediately to proceed in the game.

If I "HAVE" to join a guild to get NBG groups then this server is a sad sad place. Sad that 6 people can't get together and have a positive experience. I have been given loot in groups that didn't have to pre-announce NBG because I could use it. I have also passed along what I was wearing in that slot to anyone in the group who could use it as an upgrade, so two people can get upgraded at the same.

Again, so sad so many don't understand the social aspect of community gaming.

[Kratzy]

Rolling dice is luck? Should even out?!?!?

Okay let me regale you with an experience from back in my live days:::

Paladin lvl 65 killed frenzy..... hmmm...... not exaggeratting at least 150 times. Rolled on every one. NEVER got an FBSS...... That sound even'd out to you?
I always loved when you replace one person with a new one, then the next spawn is frenzy, they roll and win, and ta da now they have to camp....

So everyone putting in equal time in camps is also BS.

[afkbandito]

Zero fucks over people crying in some deep dungeon because they want their pixels defaulted to them simply because they couldn't be troubled to ask how loot was being done or the person getting them there didn't say either because of some retarded social taboo that says "asking how loot is done in a random pickup group before shit actually drops means you're a loot whore".

Ask. If you don't like it, don't go. If you're asking someone to join you, you tell them when you ask them to come. If they don't like it, tell them not to come.

Otherwise you get these absolutely retarded discussions about the "moral ambiguity of profiting off multi-questing practices" (lol).

This thread was over on page one. It's fairly less tactfully said than I would have but it's pretty straightforward here. If you want NBG make sure the group knows it before stuff drops...esp when it's a group of people you don't know.

[fullmetalcoxman]

Rolling dice is luck? Should even out?!?!?

Okay let me regale you with an experience from back in my live days:::

Paladin lvl 65 killed frenzy..... hmmm...... not exaggeratting at least 150 times. Rolled on every one. NEVER got an FBSS...... That sound even'd out to you?
I always loved when you replace one person with a new one, then the next spawn is frenzy, they roll and win, and ta da now they have to camp....

So everyone putting in equal time in camps is also BS.

And I'm sure that one very extreme example you provided is the rule and not the exception.

I'm sure people in NBG groups have never been awarded an item and then turned around and sold it. Sorry dude, not everyone plays like you. Some people think rolling is the fairest way to distribute items.

[Lazortag]

I'd normally be against MQing because, as a Bard, it would be a lot easier for me to get trak gut rots if extras weren't able to be looted for MQing purposes, but that's how it was in classic and I accept that. There are lots of situations where being able to MQ quest items is a positive thing. What if a pipe drops in a chardok group and no monk is there to loot it? Would you rather the pipe rot? I think it's good that you can loot one for a friend or sell it to a willing buyer who doesn't want to waste their time camping it. Most of the time it makes items more accessible than if MQing weren't possible.

Although it seems like this thread is more about NBG more than it's about whether multiquesting should be allowed.

[Nordenwatch]

you will have good rolls and bad rolls, but if the dice are truly random it should even out in the end. you will win some rolls and lose some... paladins are really shitty at rolling though, theres your issue

[Nordenwatch]

I personally think quest items are different, for monk pipes i've never rolled on a pipe a monk in the group has actually needed.

even in non-NBG groups i'd still give quest items to the person who needed it.

[Splorf22]

One of my first crypt groups, I rolled on a rod of mourning and won. The paladin flipped out. Not more than 5 minutes later, I had traded it for a Hiero cloak (probably the single best enchanter item in the game at the time). The reality is everyone needs gear, and pure greed rolls are simply fair in the long run (well unless you go 0-20 on fungi tunics like me).

To me NBG is just this entitled attitude that everyone else exists for my benefit. If you want NBG, get some friends and get them to come down with you to the camp, or otherwise make sure that everyone knows the drill beforehand.

[oldhead]

I personally think quest items are different, for monk pipes i've never rolled on a pipe a monk in the group has actually needed.

even in non-NBG groups i'd still give quest items to the person who needed it.

Pretty much always been my view on things.

Always hated NBG in Pugs. Greed is the way to go.

For quest no drop items tho it should default to people who need. if nobody needs then greed.

[Houdiny]

I wouldn't expect to get an FBSS, because if the tank in my group or the monk in my group can hit harder and faster, then we can kill more, more easily. If you can kill more easily, you can get loot more easily. If you help the tank, maybe next time that tank will let you know if theres room in a group that can use my skills. I don't need to take loot to make money in this game. I will take the loot no one wants and quest the rest of the items and sell those things in the game. I've made Lambent and Crafted pieces, that i cannot use, simply to sell them as profit since it was a no drop item and no one wanted it. I do not need the item others can use immediately to proceed in the game.

If I "HAVE" to join a guild to get NBG groups then this server is a sad sad place. Sad that 6 people can't get together and have a positive experience. I have been given loot in groups that didn't have to pre-announce NBG because I could use it. I have also passed along what I was wearing in that slot to anyone in the group who could use it as an upgrade, so two people can get upgraded at the same.

Again, so sad so many don't understand the social aspect of community gaming.

I agree with this 100% We all want higher population on the server because overall it makes it a better place. When a game is this old the people that are left playing it continue to play it because they enjoy it. The newness wears off a game and many people bolt. Most every group I have been in has been NBG. I imagine when I am in 50+ groups and higher end items are dropping things will change unfortunately.

The ironic part is if everyone was NBG the chances of someone already having the loot increase dramatically. Therefor making more greed rolls. I realize that you can take an item and sell it for something you need. But when you random on 25 RMB's to make up for the price of an FBSS where does one draw the line?

As for looting quest items that are MQ'able for a guildmate, that is wrong on so many levels. Unless it's a greed roll any quest items should go to any members of the group first

[Lagaidh]

To me NBG is just this entitled attitude that everyone else exists for my benefit

I agree that the OP is being oversensitive about NBG, and that folks need to set the ground rules with PUG before beginning, but...

I've personally always seen NBG as being more about not being a dick than thinking strangers exist for the benefit of the needy. I've been on both ends of the NBG set up, just as I've been on both ends of /random. I think it comes down to each item and the group that sees it drop.

[Messianic]

Parse the words behind NBG - Need? Who needs a damn thing in this game? The mentality behind people who are hypersensitive about NBG is ridiculous.

Why is some monk in a KC group (who's probably already heavily twinked, statistically speaking) entitled to the Tstaff drop? Why is his use of it more useful than someone else's use of the 25k it would easily yield?

Because so much of the gear drops in this game are tradeable, the value of the item isn't solely based on its actual use by someone in the group; and in reality, MQ's do change things. I personally would never take a no-drop item so I can sell the MQ if someone in the group could use it and find that kind of silly. But if the MQ is really that valuable and the group agrees to it...there's nothing wrong with it.

Who gets more utility - a monk who upgrades from a peacebringer to a tstaff, or a shaman who buys an iksar regen BP and a host of hp/wis gear using the proceeds from selling the staff? Who was really "needy" (in a loose sense) in that situation? If the goal is to help the "needy", why not do gearscores on every person in the friggin group?

Obviously, that's a waste of time. But just assuming NBG helps the less geared is really stupid.


tl;dr - learn/set the loot rules as soon as you join a pug, and you need to seriously re-think NBG if you think it's actually the best system for helping the "needy" (again, using the word loosely).

[Houdiny]

I think there is merit on both sides of this argument. I prefer NBG, but I can see things working the other way as well.

My main question is since this appears to be a greed oriented server as far as rolling on items, do you just let people win whatever they can? Say someone in the group wins this tstaff and a fungi tunic also drops. Do they get to roll on the fungi as well? Keeping all the high end items for themselves? Or does it at least get distributed a little bit?

The main problem I have is on live hacking randoms was the one of the first big things that was hacked. If a guy has that advantage it isn't really fair to the group. Not saying this has happened but it at least deserves some conversation.

Another thing that I might add is NBG helps the current group but also future groups. I have certain people that I have leveled with basically since lvl 20. We have all went by the NBG method. And it has worked well. People get more gear in this group and further helps the future groups with these same people. Also helps getting an invite back into said group if you aren't greedy. So there is also some benefits to not being selfish and greedy. Of course at the higher end game in old seb and KC and such this begins to dwindle as most of the groups become out of necessity and not preference.

[Itap]

Why is some monk in a KC group (who's probably already heavily twinked, statistically speaking) entitled to the Tstaff drop? Why is his use of it more useful than someone else's use of the 25k it would easily yield?


There is fallacy in your argument. You assume that all monks are heavily twinked. What if the monk is upgrading from a Wu's quivering or a set of trance sticks? Is he not entitled to a monk only weapon that he will use as soon as it is looted?

Either way, i believe the OP was referring to No Drop items, such as the KC pipe. A group rolling on a no drop item that a group member could use to complete his/her epic ,or whatever the case may be, is not right.

Peoples greed for plat overcomes the sense of community and helping each other. In the end, its just a game, fuck it

[Acillatem]

I prefer Hand-me-down round robin in PUGs.

If I'm in a crypt group and I win a Breath of Harmony, and then Heiro Cloak drops and I win that also - I "hand down" the Breath of Harmony to whomever had the 2nd highest roll. If the person who had the 2nd highest roll previously won a lvl 60 spell, they would hand down to #3 etc.

So it spreads the loot around. And IMO, NBG should be reserved for Guild only becuz I will see the long-term benefits of said item drop.

[falkun]

"Need" is such a grey area that most people on the server just greed roll everything and let the market sort out individual's needs. If I want a specific piece of loot and don't want to pay for it, I'll get guildies and/or friends to help me camp the item. They won't roll against me because they know I'm at that camp for that item(s).

Also, the other 5 people in the group have put in just as much effort as you have at that camp. Why should they be any less rewarded (besides getting the RNG shaft)?

I do tend to prefer greed groups with either ML or hand-me-down, as Aci mentions above. That way more people walk away with something rather than one person being an RNG god and getting everything.

The biggest point, however, is communication. Know the loot philosophy going into the group, so you are not surprised when something does drop. If you don't like the rules from the get-go, then just leave the group.

[Sebekkha]

Lost two rolls in KC for the pipe when I was in need of it for my epic progression. I swiftly disbanded due to the disgust at how greedy people can be !

[sedrie.bellamie]

obv OP is talking about pipes for monk quests. Sorry other players want to make plat from camping certain mobs. This monk whining for a pipe is the same as any cleric/mage that gets a mark of karn/call of the hero random on and they loose.

Sometimes you win /random sometimes you loose at /random.

Just play more.

[sedrie.bellamie]

let's say a pipe drops from pawbuster in KC. Everyone /random for it and let us say that a ranger wins the role. That ranger could sell the MQ for mabye 10-25k nowadays. That ranger could maybe buy a Tolans BP for that, or several pieces of armor or weapons. How is that ranger not suppose to roll on an item if selling that item makes their character better?

If not a ranger, then it could be any class. If that random class can use the plat to make themselves better by buying spells and items then more power to them.

Let us say a mage wins the pipe and sells it for 15k and buys a COTH for 15k. Then that mage is a better mage for winning a pipe. That mage is more useful in groups and soloing. How else is that mage going to get better? Somtimes a big pa day like getting a pipe to sell for MQ, or even at lower levels selling jboots for 5k, that might make the player enough plat to make their character better.

[falkun]

NBG people, why would you want to subjugate your groupmates for your selfish gain? They are putting in the same time you are being at that camp helping you exp or kill the named you need. If they have not agreed to other loot rules, why should they not be entitled to the rewards of the camp the same as you? Are you inherently better than your groupmates because you are fighting in a place that benefits you?

If that is the case, then clerics shouldn't group in places that don't offer cleric loot, enchanters should eschew camps without chanter loot, and warriors/knights should avoid camps without drops for them. Now no one groups anywhere because beneficial loot doesn't drop for them where it drops for others. If you want people to get together, give them the incentive to do so, let them roll.

[Itap]

let's say a pipe drops from pawbuster in KC. Everyone /random for it and let us say that a ranger wins the role. That ranger could sell the MQ for mabye 10-25k nowadays. That ranger could maybe buy a Tolans BP for that, or several pieces of armor or weapons. How is that ranger not suppose to roll on an item if selling that item makes their character better?

If not a ranger, then it could be any class. If that random class can use the plat to make themselves better by buying spells and items then more power to them.

Let us say a mage wins the pipe and sells it for 15k and buys a COTH for 15k. Then that mage is a better mage for winning a pipe. That mage is more useful in groups and soloing. How else is that mage going to get better? Somtimes a big pa day like getting a pipe to sell for MQ, or even at lower levels selling jboots for 5k, that might make the player enough plat to make their character better.

We all understand your reasoning, it just didnt work that way back in classic, at least not the majority. Tradable items were usually /ran, but no drop items specific for a class-only quest were not. It was defaulted to that person, and nobody thought twice about it. From my memory, the only time no drop items were /ran and MQ'd was if nobody in the group/raid could use. This "WoW" type mentality kills what classic eq was

[Houdiny]

When EQ live released there wasn't this much selfishness that I can remember. Sure there was issues and sure people gained a bad reputation for doing things. I'm not saying nothing ever happened. But it seemed NBG was the consensus on my server and it held true for a long long time.

Maybe the fact that other games have come out since and people have adopted new rules they like to play by, I don't know. I just remember EQ being a more friendly, non greedy experience then this server.

And it doesn't just extend to loot in a group. Raid mobs were taken turns on. You had elite guilds that would let a guild try a mob once or twice and if they had no luck the elite guild would move in and take it out. But all guilds were at least shown the respect to try and take a target down. Not trained in the process of trying to progress. After all how do you know you can or can't kill something until you try it. And furthermore experience gained on an encounter goes a long ways. Maybe letting a guild attempt something a few times then allows them to be able to complete an encounter later on. Instead of just deeming every raid mob in Norrath on this server to two guilds and no more.

As for the people who suggest that a person can random on something and take it to sell that is all good and well but what if said person was in that particular group to obtain that very item. He now doesn't have it and considers his time wasted. I'm not saying I wouldn't play with these types of people either. I'm just saying that stuff like this sticks with people and when it comes to deciding whether to invite someone to a group or not plays a large part in whether or not you have had good memories grouping with them or all bad. I have certain people I will not invite to a group. If they stumble into my group I don't leave, but when the opportunity to get someone else is there I employ that right

[falkun]

From my experience on Live, lots of people were unselfish and then there were a few people who abused NBG with a very loose definition of "need". This server just removes NBG from PUG groups so that it can't be abused. Why is CYA considered selfishness?

[Houdiny]

From my experience on Live, lots of people were unselfish and then there were a few people who abused NBG with a very loose definition of "need". This server just removes NBG from PUG groups so that it can't be abused. Why is CYA considered selfishness?

Well for starters your putting your "potential benefit" over the direct benefit of others. Sure you can sell that item, but are you going to get what you need out of it? Are you going to get enough gear that you might need to help your future groups even more? Are you going to dump it all on an alt and play him to level 10 and sell the items off?

Just to note, I have stated there is merits to both sides of this argument. And I don't condemn people for thinking differently than I do. Just discussing, trying to get a feel for how people operate on the server as I am fairly new.

[falkun]

Its direct benefit to you only if you use the item, until then its potential, just like the sale of the MQ. For instance, there was a warrior who received a hand of maestro for his epic over anyone else at the Maestro kill (who is still fairly contested on this server because of the epic piece). The player then sold the warrior and the new owner, figuring he wouldn't complete his epic, sold the hand MQ. That "direct benefit" you speak of could have happened on this warrior account, but instead the player decided to get "direct benefit" out of MQ-ing something usable for him.

NBG all you want, when you realize you've been played you'll cover your own ass the next time. Most players on the server have been burned, so they don't do NBG to help keep themselves from being burned again.

If you are going to claim need on an item, then find 5 people willing to let you claim need, friends or guildees tend to fit this bill the most.

[Happyfeet]

Rolling dice is luck? Should even out?!?!?

Okay let me regale you with an experience from back in my live days:::

Paladin lvl 65 killed frenzy..... hmmm...... not exaggeratting at least 150 times. Rolled on every one. NEVER got an FBSS...... That sound even'd out to you?
I always loved when you replace one person with a new one, then the next spawn is frenzy, they roll and win, and ta da now they have to camp....

So everyone putting in equal time in camps is also BS.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Probability

[Splorf22]

IMO "need" groups are far more greedy than "greed" groups. After all, the guy claiming need is the one who is demanding the item simply because of a few flags on which race/class can use it.

Of course I don't usually roll on MQs but if a RBG drops I'm definitely getting out my dice.

NBG/G seems to be one of those things people just have strong visceral feelings about.

[Arclanz]

The items are no-drop because the game designers wanted the quest-goer to loot the item, themself. MQ is an exploit; plain and simple.

[Happyfeet]

TMO MQ's I hear

[Psionide]

people complaining about MQ most likely MQ'd their jboots......

[Comapavik]

Big difference from here and live is that you're allowed to sell your characters here. Kind of invalidates the whole NBG system imo.

[Houdiny]

Big difference from here and live is that you're allowed to sell your characters here. Kind of invalidates the whole NBG system imo.

This does raise controversy on the subject even further. More bones to add to the pile. In the end everyone is going to have differing feelings on the matter. Some people have suggested to check with the group before hand and if you don't like it leave group or don't even join.

However that plays into the hands of the group not the one who attends the group, as the group already has the camp, and the force to take the named,

[taysk8]

MQ's are soft. All those fart farts hating on OP's call for decency are soft as fuck.

[Autotune]

Roll a necromancer.
Profit.

[Nordenwatch]

Roll a necromancer.
Profit.

confirmed

[Teddie1056]

Greed puts everyone on an even playing field for groups.

Also, I don't know where people get this idea of a Utopian Norrath back in 2000 (I say 2000 because that is where we are on the timeline). I remember every PuG being Greed unless otherwise specified on the Xev server. Sure, we didn't usually MQ stuff as much, but that was because we were much less sure of which items were MQable. This information wasn't readily out there.

If I was in a PuG and a pipe dropped, I would probably pass on it, but I can't promise anything. I care more about making my guild strong than gear at this point, so I'd want it for a guildy. Let's just assume I do pass on it, I wouldn't disapprove of anyone else rolling on it.

[falkun]

Teddie, you'd also be in a guild group, so you'd see the benefit of that pipe later. If I'm with random_player_05, who says I'll ever see them again and see the benefit of that pipe again?

Also, as a bard, gear is largely irrelevant, besides resists and a drum. Am I supposed to pass on all haste items in groups because a rogue or monk doesn't have one yet? What happens when that rogue turns L2 and obtains his ragebringer? All of a sudden he gets to sell a 25k RBG because he "needed" it, and I'm left broke. That's bullshit when I'm very likely to be the bard that pulled the mob that dropped the RBG. And the bard that played slow song to keep the mob from stomping the group, and the bard that played haste to allow the rogue to kill it faster. I've "earned" that RBG as much as that rogue, if not more because I'm definitely working harder in my group role. Tapping backstab is so hard bros.

[Arclanz]

I'm fine with a greed-roll policy for the server. What sucks is being in a NBG group when something nice drops you could sell; then later in a greed-roll group where something drops that you need. In this case you just got screwed twice. If the policy were consistent you'd just get screwed once.

[Ravager]

Any pickup group should be roll on everything imo. If I join a pickup group, I'm there for exp and loot just like everyone else and /random gives everyone a fair shot. If you're not cool with that, make sure you have the loot policy known in advance and if you don't like it, don't group with them.

If there really is an item that you need that can only be camped with a group, be sociable, make some friends and put together your own group for the purpose of getting that item, and then be ready to help one of those people out in the future when they need it.

And Falkun, I have no sympathy for bards who can PL themselves and kill 100 mobs at a time. ;)

[falkun]

And Falkun, I have no sympathy for bards who can PL themselves and kill 100 mobs at a time. ;)
100? You don't give me enough credit. It is a hilarious point though that I'd level slower getting PLed by a monk/shaman/cleric/druid than just doing it myself. Really only bards can PL bards.

[Ravager]

Well, it seemed like a high number, 99.5 more than I can kill at once anyway.

[Aceofcups]

First i'd like to say Sony didn't invent MQ'ing per say. A lot of 'game mechanics' come about accidentally.

When they designed the game, they decided to have the server check the npc's inventory after each item hand in, instead of doing 1 check per trade. Hense, the accidental creation of MQ'ing.

Same thing probably rings true to the way monks are about to break aswell.

I'm more of a need before greed guy myself, but in truth what others are saying is best. As a warrior, i'd go camp frenzy without a second thought, why? Chance at FBSS. As a caster i'd thing, meh rather do solb nobles. If everything was solely NBG, you'd need friends to come help down names that don't drop items that are needed by both casters and melee.

However, on a side note. I do not believe there should be any MQ'ing on Epics. I know alot of people would be against this, especially ones who need very specific items from highly tracked targets like Trak.

I just feel that for your epic, you should be the one to complete it. Then again it might just be me getting edgy about all these lvl 1 rogues who start with a ragebringer in their main hand and a candle in their offhand.

[Striiker]

Everyone has their own ways of enjoying the game. I just like grouping and helping people get some nice gear. Most groups I have been in (Pick Up Groups) have been Need Before Greed. Sometimes I've been in on greed rolls for all and I personally have never liked them. It's usually a good idea to ask if the group is greed or NBG so that you can set your expectations correctly or pass on the group.
I understand why people want to greed roll on everything; because it helps them get plat to get gear for their characters or to use on their alts. I have alts that can use all kinds of stuff but I will gladly hand an item to a class present that can actually use the item as an upgrade. I have always viewed this from the perspective of "if I were that monk and the pipe dropped in KC or the T Staff dropped and it went to someone else in the group so they could sell it, how would I feel?" Again, it's all a matter of personal play style and motivations. Everyone is different..
You should get in a guild where people help each other out with gear and avoid Pick-Up Groups where possible. This way you get maximum enjoyment out of the game.

[SirAlvarex]

I say keep it as greed in all groups. If you want it to be NBG, then ask it to be NBG. If 2 out of the 5 in the group disagree, then you still have 4 possible winning rolls by players that will give you the "need" item. I've done that before, and have had it happen to me before.

It sucks, but in pick-up groups I agree with the sentiment that everyone in the group be treated equal. The only time I've been in a group where NBG seemed appropriate but wasn't, was in a Pawbuster group in KC. We had 2 monks in the group (one with the WF robe, other with epic) that technically could have called need (WF monk to get his epic and a second WF robe, epic monk to get a WF robe) but didn't. They lost out on the 2 pipe drops as well.

I know I'd be upset if I needed an epic drop and someone took it for a MQ, but I'd get over it and try to get the drop again. Same with big-money droppable items. Falkun brought up a point about a rogue "needing" an RBG. Big money items like that should always be assumed rolled on for the reason he states. The money on those items can be enough to fully equip a character with nearly BiS gear.

If it's something small, like say Cobalt armor that the warrior can use in a group, then I say let the guy have it. But 7k+ items should probably go to the person with the luckiest roll. Unless stated beforehand, of course.

[Toodles]

I'd normally be against MQing because, as a Bard, it would be a lot easier for me to get trak gut rots if extras weren't able to be looted for MQing purposes, but that's how it was in classic and I accept that. There are lots of situations where being able to MQ quest items is a positive thing. What if a pipe drops in a chardok group and no monk is there to loot it? Would you rather the pipe rot? I think it's good that you can loot one for a friend or sell it to a willing buyer who doesn't want to waste their time camping it. Most of the time it makes items more accessible than if MQing weren't possible.

Although it seems like this thread is more about NBG more than it's about whether multiquesting should be allowed.

That's not what I intended, nor did I make it seem that way. Others however twisted it into an debate on NBG.

MQng was Sony saying 'Hi there, we realize some stuff is too hard for more casual players to obtain, so what we've done is introduce multiquesting; items are still no drop and therefore cannot be traded, but with your new innovative system, you can still get your stuff without actually put any effort into achieving it. I know you first era players spent all that time and effort doing it legit, but we have to throw a bone to the EQ players that have a social life."

It's one of those 'classic era' features we could of(and had the power to) do without.

As for the NBG comments, some of you are really void... 90% of all drops, sans anything highly valuable, are offered as NBG. Just because you view the 2k pp item as 'trash' doesn't mean the others don't see it as NBG, and the druid who is in the group can actually use it - to which everyone else says 'man if you need it, take it!'

[fadetree]

MQ was an accident due to lazy programming.

[Toodles]

MQ was an accident due to lazy programming.

Yes, I was being sardonic.
Further to the point that we as players (and the devs alike) know this now as the years passed and yet they still decided to include it.

The example of NBG was just a supporting footnote to the fact that it brings non legit items into the economy/market that were not intended to be.

[Massive Marc]

MQng was Sony saying 'Hi there, we realize some stuff is too hard for more casual players to obtain, so what we've done is introduce multiquesting; items are still no drop and therefore cannot be traded, but with your new innovative system, you can still get your stuff without actually put any effort into achieving it. I know you first era players spent all that time and effort doing it legit, but we have to throw a bone to the EQ players that have a social life."


I'm not sure this is accurate.
EDIT: ninja'd

Classic.

[August]

I hate this debate so, so much.

I'm tired of reading about it. I hate it so much, that I won't even post how I feel about it.

[Slave]

So for anything that drops from VS, or Innoruuk, or Maestro of Rancor, or Ragefire, or any other mob that is contested on this server, you're saying that casual players should be unable to complete their epic? I believe that consists of most epics.

Even though they have put in enough time to potentially earn the item several times over camping it by the time they can buy it? Even though that's not Classic?

What if a Chinese guild started here, spoke only Chinese, allowed only Chinese players in the guild, and camped every significant mob and tried to block any other person on the server from obtaining treasures from these mobs with a large degree of success (because the server raid mechanics are not Classic and despite promises there have been no changes)? Because that is actually what is happening right now with TMO, except instead of being Chinese, they are drooling facecunts.

So not only is your argument bullshit in theory, it is easily shown to be bullshit in what is literally the reality of the day.

[Lyra]

I'm new here. I wanted the 1999 experience.

hahahaha I really am getting it.

EVEN WITH THE FORUM POSTING!

You're really giving me my money's worth. Oh wait...

[Swish]

So for anything that drops from VS, or Innoruuk, or Maestro of Rancor, or Ragefire, or any other mob that is contested on this server, you're saying that casual players should be unable to complete their epic? I believe that consists of most epics.

Even though they have put in enough time to potentially earn the item several times over camping it by the time they can buy it? Even though that's not Classic?

What if a Chinese guild started here, spoke only Chinese, allowed only Chinese players in the guild, and camped every significant mob and tried to block any other person on the server from obtaining treasures from these mobs with a large degree of success (because the server raid mechanics are not Classic and despite promises there have been no changes)? Because that is actually what is happening right now with TMO, except instead of being Chinese, they are drooling facecunts.

So not only is your argument bullshit in theory, it is easily shown to be bullshit in what is literally the reality of the day.

This, totally this ^^