Pick Pocket

[Treats]

Shouldn't pick pocket only be availabe on NPCs classified as Humanoids?

A few posts here on Google groups stating:

1) Must be Humanoid
2) Must be Non Undead Humanoid?
3) Some exceptions -- Goos (Possibly only Non-Humanoids that hold Platinum?)

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.games.everquest/search?group=alt.games.everquest&q=pick+pocket+humanoid&qt_g=Search+this+group

Scarabs in Sebilis shouldn't be able to be Pick Pocketed

Seafuries in Ocean of Tears? (These are classified as Humanoids though I think)

Allizseur? (Humanoid again I think)

Anyone think of any other NPCs that are pickable that shouldn't be?

[kanras]

Only certain types of NPCs can be pickpocketed, pending update.

[Nubben]

I finally started leveling my rogue, which is a clone of my main on live (from October 1999 to present). I'm now level 10, and have had the pick pocket skill for a few levels. Whenever I try to pick pocket guards or NPC's, I am getting a message that says "You are too inexperienced to pick pocket this target." I've never seen or heard of this message before, and know for a fact it didn't exist on live because I used to do fly by pick pocket attempts on guards and NPCs all the time, getting myself killed quite a few times too. Anyway this can be removed? There should be no max level that a character can pick pocket from.

Edit:
Also the way pick pockets chooses how much coin to take seems off. The way it worked was that once the game decided which kind of coin you were going to take (gold, silver, copper, etc.) the most you could take was half of however many of that coin the mob had and you could never take their last coin of any kind. One giveaway that a rogue was pick pocketing was if most mobs dropped 1 gold, 1 silver, 1 copper frequently. So if a gnoll pup started with 7 copper, you could take 3 copper, then 2 copper, then 1 copper, then you couldn't steal anymore even though it has 1 copper left. The only way to get that last copper would be to loot it. On P1999 it is letting me take all of a mobs coin, and then even telling me that the mob has nothing left to steal. I've never seen that message on live either.

Edit 2:
I did a google search of the exact quote that I receive when I unsuccessfully try to pick pocket a high level npc, and the only results that came up are from an upload of the EQemu source code. This leads me to believe that this is just an artifact of the EQemu code and not something that intentionally exists on P1999

[kanras]

I am getting a message that says "You are too inexperienced to pick pocket this target." I've never seen or heard of this message before, and know for a fact it didn't exist on live because I used to do fly by pick pocket attempts on guards and NPCs all the time, getting myself killed quite a few times too. Anyway this can be removed?

Fixed, pending update.

There should be no max level that a character can pick pocket from.

This is incorrect. However, the current way the server calculates that max level is wrong. That has been corrected, pending update.

Also the way pick pockets chooses how much coin to take seems off. The way it worked was that once the game decided which kind of coin you were going to take (gold, silver, copper, etc.) the most you could take was half of however many of that coin the mob had and you could never take their last coin of any kind.

Fixed, pending update.

On P1999 it is letting me take all of a mobs coin, and then even telling me that the mob has nothing left to steal. I've never seen that message on live either.

Fixed, pending update.

Nice addition, Nubben.

[Nirgon]

Awesome work Treats + Nubben

[Tarathiel]

my pockets are hating all of you right now

(jk good work guys!)

[Nubben]

Glad I was able to help, all my knowledge of classic EQ came through the eyes of my rogue (the only character I played past level 15 until LDoN or so), so any other issues I run into with the class I'll be sure to post here. I think Intimidation (Instill Doubt) will be my next one, it seems way off from what I've seen on my monk.

[Dullah]

This isn't right.

Rogues could steal from a lot of things on live that weren't humanoid. I just noticed that its almost impossible to steal from a lot of stuff in seb (either its impossible, or like 1 in 50). On live, you could do this.

[Treats]

Found this on the Safehouse also, guess this is why Rogues were never doing this on Live:

http://www.thesafehouse.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2855

List of reasons hide will break
Bard Song
Area of Effect (AOE) Spells
Someone casts a spell on you
Looting a corpse
Dealing with a merchant/banker
Successful Instill Doubt
Pickpocket (success OR fail)
Zoning or logging out Zato Thornblade the Dwarven Rogue

[Cecily]

Yay! You just found the reason no rogue ever solo pick pocketed anything from a KoS mob, ever! Or perhaps you just sneak :P

I spent a lot... of time pickpocketing hill giants way before I could kill them on live, who btw aren't a viable source of cash for low level rogues on P99 (or arguably anyone else) because of the stupid SK drake, Rharzar who isn't supposed to path around the HG hill, pathing around the HG hill kinda kills everyone.

Making 100+pp in a couple mins on a level 30 rogue while hearing druids in the zone whine about stingy hill giants is something is every rogue should experience. Trailing right behind those big feet, listening to those stomps, and sometimes getting stomped on! That was fun.

[Ele]

Found this on the Safehouse also, guess this is why Rogues were never doing this on Live:

http://www.thesafehouse.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2855

Never doing what?

[Treats]

Never doing what?

Pickpocketing from groups of KoS mobs.

I know it was done on Live but never with the level of ease as it is currently on P99.

[Treats]

Ahahahahahahahah, oh God, please put this in since some post on the Safehouse said so :D

I don't understand why some people even post in the bug forums, do the trolling elsewhere.

All that was needed was a simple search to figure out what he was talking about.

Bard Song

He is talking about the Bard Invis Song, it overrides Hide:

http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/posts/list.m?topic_id=66332

Someone casts a spell on you

Most likely referencing NPC's, not PC's.

[Arrisard]

What trolling? Shit is gonna be hilarious is my point. Infact it sounds even better than I imagined, you don't even have to be grouped? And it affects manasong, too?

Two issues: bards able to break rogues sneaking even if rogue not in same group and bards singing mana song break rouges sneaking even if rogue a moderate distance away

Last time this happened I was S/H in Low Guk and was in the Hall Way heading to the Exe. I was going to join the exe group but was not yet in a group. I saw a an invis Bard's little glowing ball running at me and see the message "XXX tries to cast a spell of you but you are protected" followed by the "you stop hiding" message which then leads strait to " A Wan Ghoul Knight Attacks you" and end's with the "Welcome to West Freeport" message.

And "most likely", well ... Again, from your link:

While bard songs are still inappropriately breaking Hide and Sneak (a problem which we intend to fix soon), I don't believe that player-cast spells still have that problem.

Sounds like PC spells were breaking hide at least at some point to me. Was it all spells or just invisibility type spells?

You people are toooooooooooooooooooouchy.

[Valdarious]

What was really funny back in Live, is you can target an NPC inside of a house then go outside, climb on the roof then practice your pickpocketing all you wanted. Granted, this was a pathing bug but it still worked, at least when I played.

[Velerin]

Yeah that's how they recommended pp'ing the DE guild trainer for the epic on the safehouse, that way if you got agro you had time to make the zone.

[evilkorn]

I don't know why you would grab a random thread from almost two years ago to add a funny anecdote but I'll expand on it:

The z-axis changes made it so Tani can attack while you are on the roof, you still kinda get a head start, but the way mobs are pathing through walls (not really in the position to watch as I run from a GM rogue with my back to him so I could be wrong) it wouldn't surprise me that Tani just runs right through the house. I always pick with jboots so speed isn't really a concern to get to the zone.

[Tue Apr 29 10:57:24 2014] Tani N`Mar says 'Stop Thief! <Jonwayne>'
[Tue Apr 29 10:57:24 2014] Your attempt at stealing was unsuccessful.
[Tue Apr 29 10:57:24 2014] Tani N`Mar tries to punch YOU, but misses!
[Tue Apr 29 10:57:24 2014] Tani N`Mar tries to punch YOU, but misses!
[Tue Apr 29 10:57:24 2014] Tani N`Mar tries to backstab YOU, but misses!
[Tue Apr 29 10:57:58 2014] LOADING, PLEASE WAIT...
[Tue Apr 29 10:58:13 2014] You have entered Neriak Commons.

[Mon Mar 24 09:29:53 2014] Tani N`Mar says 'Stop Thief! <Jonwayne>'
[Mon Mar 24 09:29:53 2014] Your attempt at stealing was unsuccessful.
[Mon Mar 24 09:29:55 2014] You can't reach that, get closer.
[Mon Mar 24 09:30:27 2014] LOADING, PLEASE WAIT...
[Mon Mar 24 09:30:43 2014] You have entered Neriak Commons.

I know this change was made because of people exploiting but in this case it does change a very classic mechanic that may end a poor rogues life while doing the epic for himself.

[Valdarious]

I don't know why you would grab a random thread from almost two years ago to add a funny anecdote but I'll expand on it:



Oh wow. I am sorry, I did not realize the date on this thread. Someone posted it for a reference from a different thread and I did not know it was this old. Not normally a Necro Threader.
I used to this on top of a house in Qeynos to a merchant in the Clerics area.

[Cecily]

I know this change was made because of people exploiting but in this case it does change a very classic mechanic that may end a poor rogues life while doing the epic for himself.

Good. Picking from the roof is a classic exploit and dying while critically failing pickpocket is classic.

[4WOFURY]

Since this thread is up - why aren't giants flagged as pickable? That was one of the joys of rogues, as Cecily mentioned.

[Ele]

Giants PPable

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.games.everquest/hvu5300L9ro/PKwwHBVX_LIJ

Certain types of creatures can not be pickpocketed. None of the arachnid
series can. Nor, I believe, can undead. At least skeletons can't. Nor can
animals - lions and tigers and bears, oh my. From my experience it seems
that only creatures who are not undead and who carry actual coin (in
addition to possible items) can be pickpocketed. For example wisps can be.
I once got a lightstone off of one. Personally I think they should be
considered undead, but I digress. <shrug>

> - And finally... Never pp anything (or anyone) you're not ready, willing
and
>able to kill. ;) Once in a while as you try to pp, you *will* get
>notice--successful or not--and as soon as that happens, you're going to get
>attacked. Um... Trust me on this one. ;D

Agreed. Or at least make sure you are close enough to the zone that you can
get away. As far as PPing giants. Your chances of success, it seems, are
greatly influenced by your respective levels (that of you and your intended
victim). I am never able to succesfully pickpocket a red. I died quite a
few times trying to pick pocket the fishbone earring off of the barbarian
fisherman. He catches me quickly and I never succede in getting anything
off of him.


https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.games.everquest/hvu5300L9ro/o8nztFUaqRoJ
At 35th level with jboots when I need cash I find some giants, my best pick in
one shot so far was 25pp. Normally I use Oasis, if they get mad at me, i can
lead them to the middle of the nro zone where normally there's noone, and shout
like mad if you are dragging one somewhere. I routinely get gold and plat off
stuff. Items I've gotten. Squad ring from a halfling guard, dented or ruined
helm from a freeport guard (quest item), FS weapon from a SG, merchant, guard.
Sands of Ro from a Sg, anyone know what it is for? Flame of Vox, words, runes,
pages, scalps from all kinds of stuff, goblin ears in high keep. Keep
practicing Pick Pocket it pays off at higher levels.


Note sure how reliable this person is, but it is relevant to giant pickpocketability.
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.games.everquest/kMTDDvRRtMs/vYcAsi5mE7oJ

ermm not true.I know a very high lvl rogue who pickpocketed the
rubicite breastplate from the avatar of fear. Also she Disarmed the
giant zweihander from Krag Icebear. They can steal anything from an
NPC. including the money. I am not kidding here. Once for fun she
stole 35 pp 12 gp and some other small coins. from a sand giant.
After we put it down the SG had no cash on him.. and she stole his
fine steel too. i was glad she was in our group tho :P and she was the
master looter. so yeah rouges take the cash from the mosnter loot
pool.


SafeHouse Pickpocket Guide from 1999/2000
https://web.archive.org/web/20001002074002/http:/pub2.ezboard.com/fthesafehouselibraryreadonly.showMessage?topicID=2 0.topic

Note: the level 45 limit directly contradicts this prior bug report (http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133747&highlight=pickpocket) that claimed it had no limit. Report was not acted upon.

What it does:

The pick pocket skill allows a rogue to take coins and/or items directly from an NPC. Success is not guaranteed and is based on the rogue's current skill points. A message will appear stating success or failure. If successful, coins are automatically put into their proper places among your inventory, but items are placed on your mouse cursor so you'll have to put them away manually. You have no control over what you actually get--coins or an item.

How to use it:

1. First, you must be within melee range of your target (lucky you, eh).
2. Use the skill; either click the Pick Pocket button or use an assigned hotkey.

Notes:

A. You can only use this skill on NPC's with pockets, i.e. merchants, orcs, goblins, etc.. It will not work on most animals nor skeletons. Some creatures without pockets CAN be picked, such as wisps and drakes.

B. The loot you steal comes from the SAME loot you would have gotten if the NPC is killed and looted. There is some debate whether this was changed from a seperate cache in the past or has always been this way (I believe it was changed), but there is no debate that it definately takes from the loot now.

C. Some NPC's will cry out an alarm (such as Dervs) and attack--be prepared to do the same or run...

D. You cannot pick pockets while auto-combat is "on".

E. If you are "hidden" you will become visible after a pickpocket attempt (even if you succeed). Sneak will remain active, but be sure to re-hide ASAP.

F. You can not pickpocket magic items, and creatures level 45+ can not be picked.

[Ele]

https://web.archive.org/web/20011222035330/http://pub35.ezboard.com/fthesafehouselibraryreadonly.showMessage?topicID=1 08.topic

Question: Who/what can I pickpocket?
Answer: You may pick pocket mobs that are level 45 or less if you are lower than 50 and level - 5 if you are over 50. You May NOT pickpocket items that are No Drop or Magic.

And as Ramrod pointed out you cannot pp undead, or animals. but the mobs you can pick are just about anything else in game. when in doubt try, who knows what youll get.

[Daldaen]

Lets do it classic!

[Scrubosaur]

I wanna pickpocket HG's = Classic

[Burgles]

Well, I can't confirm or deny if giants are working but Drolvarg's are not. I know they were on doable on live.

[Dullah]

On live a rogue would get gems in seb all the time with pickpocket. On p99 only mobs that drop gems normally are bugs, which you can't pickpocket.

Something not right.

[Lopretni]

snip

This is really cool, I hope it gets fixed. This is the kind of third-realm kind of gameplay I really like where it's outside of just grinding, crafting or the economy. Just a unique class-specific mechanic you can do stuff with. Would make rogues be more than the backdoor slammers, at least a little bit.

[Burgles]

2.6.1 How does Pickpocket work?
You target an NPC or monster and click the 'pick pockets' skill button. Upon success, you will be given some coinage, or rarely, an item that was in the target's inventory. It is best to use this skill on something you plan to fight anyway. Because if you are detected, the creature will attack you. You can only raise skill or successfully pickpocket non-animal, non-Undead mobs. Animals and skeletons can not be pickpocketed.

Source: http://www.thesafehouse.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2865 from August of 2000

[Burgles]

I have been generously given some combat logs from a rogue from r/Everquest over on reddit. I've uploaded them to scribed.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/236088678/Pickpocket

Example:
-[Thu Oct 19 22:29:49 2000] Sidil slashes a drolvarg gnasher for 26 points of damage.
-[Thu Oct 19 22:29:49 2000] Draayke kicks a drolvarg gnasher for 12 points of damage.
:[Thu Oct 19 22:29:49 2000] You have stolen 3 silver.
-[Thu Oct 19 22:29:50 2000] Jadorm begins to cast a spell.
-[Thu Oct 19 22:29:50 2000] Draayke slashes a drolvarg gnasher for 23 points of damage.

-[Thu Oct 19 22:32:42 2000] Sidil slashes a drolvarg rager for 37 points of damage.
-[Thu Oct 19 22:32:42 2000] Draayke kicks a drolvarg rager for 16 points of damage.
:[Thu Oct 19 22:32:43 2000] You have stolen 4 silver.
-[Thu Oct 19 22:32:43 2000] Auto attack on.
-[Thu Oct 19 22:32:43 2000] You pierce a drolvarg rager for 28 points of damage.

-[Sat Oct 07 10:48:32 2000] Auto attack off.
-[Sat Oct 07 10:48:32 2000] You try to pierce a mountain giant tump, but miss!
:[Sat Oct 07 10:48:33 2000] You have stolen 1 platinum.
-[Sat Oct 07 10:48:33 2000] You begin to hide...
-[Sat Oct 07 10:48:34 2000] You have momentarily ducked away from the main combat.

-[Sat Oct 07 13:19:35 2000] Auto attack off.
-[Sat Oct 07 13:19:36 2000] Auto attack on.
:[Sat Oct 07 13:19:36 2000] You have stolen 4 gold.
-[Sat Oct 07 13:19:37 2000] You try to pierce a mountain giant brae, but miss!
-[Sat Oct 07 13:19:37 2000] Washio shouts, 'Whats the loc of lake plz?'

-[Sun Oct 08 09:23:14 2000] You pierce a mountain giant hillock for 6 points of damage.
-[Sun Oct 08 09:23:15 2000] Auto attack off.
:[Sun Oct 08 09:23:16 2000] You have stolen 1 gold.
-[Sun Oct 08 09:23:16 2000] Auto attack on.
-[Sun Oct 08 09:23:17 2000] Arkaan begins to cast a spell.

[Scrubosaur]

Nice find! Can't wait to sneak through KC pickpocketing for fun.

[Byrjun]

Bump. More mobs (ie. Drolvargs) need to be PPable.

[Scrubosaur]

Bump. Need to be able to pickpocket Drolvargs and Giants.

[Scrubosaur]

Any word on getting this fixed?

[Cecily]

Only certain types of NPCs can be pickpocketed, pending update.

This is what the problem is. Kanras removed the "monster" flag from allowable pickpocket targets. Guess what giants and drolvargs are? Right, monsters.

[nilbog]

This is what the problem is. Kanras removed the "monster" flag from allowable pickpocket targets. Guess what giants and drolvargs are? Right, monsters.

Giants are giants and drolvargs are lycanthropes. There are many bodytypes. If this needs to be changed, it would be best to include only what should be pickpocketable, i.e. if not undead, if not animal, if not ____, if level <= ____. And then, if applicable, exclude certain races/bodytypes. I'm not familiar with this and won't be making the changes myself, but that's the information needed.

[Scrubosaur]

Giants are giants and drolvargs are lycanthropes. There are many bodytypes. If this needs to be changed, it would be best to include only what should be pickpocketable, i.e. if not undead, if not animal, if not ____, if level <= ____. And then, if applicable, exclude certain races/bodytypes. I'm not familiar with this and won't be making the changes myself, but that's the information needed.

Ele's post on page 3 breaks it down.

[Cecily]

Giants are giants and drolvargs are lycanthropes. There are many bodytypes. If this needs to be changed, it would be best to include only what should be pickpocketable, i.e. if not undead, if not animal, if not ____, if level <= ____. And then, if applicable, exclude certain races/bodytypes. I'm not familiar with this and won't be making the changes myself, but that's the information needed.

So the old bestiary classification types don't apply? Animal, Humanoid, Undead, Summoned, Monster? Anything that would fall under "monster" and humanoid should be a valid target. I feel like we're just arguing taxonomic hierarchy here, but that's kinda what it comes down to.

Valid Targets: Not Undead. Not Animal.
Valid Items: Not magic. Not no drop. Not equiped.
Cap = lv 45 mobs or player level - 5, whichever is higher.

I don't know exactly how it's coded, but I'm assuming Kanras changed it to only humanoid targets and that's absolutely incorrect. The applicable target list was cut down far too much. Giants can't be pickpocketed atm, and they were the classic rogue target for this skill.

2.11. How does Pickpocket work?

You target an NPC or monster and click the 'pick pockets' skill button. Upon success, you will be given some coinage, or rarely, an item that was in the target's inventory. It is best to use this skill on something you plan to fight anyway. Because if you are detected, the creature will attack you. You can only raise skill or successfully pickpocket non-animal, non-Undead mobs. Animals and skeletons can not be pickpocketed.

...

2.16. Is there a level cap for pickpocketing creatures?

Yes. The cap is either level 45 or your (own level - 5), whichever is higher. So, until level 50 you will only be able to pickpocket mobs that are level 1-45, but starting at level 51 you can pick higher mobs (46) too, until at level 60 where you are able to pick mobs that are up to level 55.

http://teir-dal.tripod.com/id47.html

[Scrubosaur]

Let's get classic!

[Brocode]

RISE, and fix it!

[Treats]

Nilbog explained it, whether you are able to Pick Pocket an NPC is based on it's body type.

It's not as simple as humanoid/monster/etc.

[Cecily]

Valid Targets: Not Undead. Not Animal.
Valid Items: Not magic. Not no drop. Not equiped.
Cap = lv 45 mobs or player level - 5, whichever is higher.

[paulgiamatti]

Bump

[evilkorn]

Would be nice if there was a min skill level for successful pick pocket of Founy/Tani so you needed to be be higher than 7 to pickpocket epic pieces and have used the skill before. Currently skill level means nothing for successful pick pockets.

[kanras]

Added Giant and Lycanthrope to the bodytypes that can be pickpocket, pending update.