Monk Weapon Question!

[Taiku]

I've got a Wu's Trance Stick, a Knuckle Duster, and a Quivering Staff. And no haste yet!

I was wondering if I should try to ditch the two 1h weapons and just keep my 2h or the other way around, It's mostly about if I should keep the Knuckle Duster or sell it, because I'm trying to afford other things like Jboots, an FBSS, or some Weight Reduction bags, About 1000pp away from getting my Jboots MQ, which is about what a Knuckle Duster is worth.

Just hit level 30 so I don't think I'm capped on damage anymore, and the Quivering Staff is pretty heavy to lug around. I've been switching between 2h and my 1hb set to keep everything leveled up, but was wondering if there was a setup I should try to stick to, or if one theoretically does more damage than the other!

Also KD should be in my main hand, right? O; Thanks!

[Loftus]

I've always gone by the rule: lowest delay in main hand, best ratio in off hand.

My current combo is Jade Mace 9/18 (50% ratio) in main hand and Adamantite Club 15/25 (60% ratio) in off hand.

Knuckle Dusters are 14/28 (50% ratio) but are quite slow. I would use KDs in off hand and find something with a lower delay for main hand.

R

[SyanideGas]

Prolly gonna hit haste cap anyway, shoot for 2hb like peacebringer

[kcabeblli]

In most instances a good 2hb is going to out do 1hb for monks because we get some pretty awesome 2hb weapons. I currently have a adamantite club/knuckle duster for my 1hb and a peacebringer for 2hb and the peacebringer just brings things down way faster then 1hb combo.

This is copied from another monk thread a while back. Someone apparently parsed the dps of each combo.

Ranked in order (purchasable gear):

Tranquil Staff
Adamantite Club/Stave of Shielding
Runed Fighter's Staff
Peacebringer

Adamantite Club/Knuckle Dusters
Imbued Fighters Staff
Wu's Quivering Staff
(These three almost identical in dps, Ada Club/KD being the best)

[Nepenthe]

hard to beat jade mace main hand and adamantite club offhand.

[Enzo13]

I've always gone by the rule: lowest delay in main hand, best ratio in off hand.

My current combo is Jade Mace 9/18 (50% ratio) in main hand and Adamantite Club 15/25 (60% ratio) in off hand.

Knuckle Dusters are 14/28 (50% ratio) but are quite slow. I would use KDs in off hand and find something with a lower delay for main hand.

R

Ratio means nothing in off hand.. if i only had a jade mace and adamantite club id go with club in main hand and bare fist in off hand and sell the mace.

[Loke]

At your level I would avoid advice that says to use fists - at ~30 they're still pretty horrible. If I were you, unhasted and lower level, I'd probably do trance stick in main and KD in off (of the weapons you listed). Maybe sell them and snag an IFS, they're pretty cheap and should out dmg everything you've listed.

If not, download gamparse and find out for yourself which is the best dps. It is pretty easy to use, but if you have any questions, feel free to PM me and I can try to help out with whatever you're having trouble with.

[Enzo13]

At your level I would avoid advice that says to use fists - at ~30 they're still pretty horrible. If I were you, unhasted and lower level, I'd probably do trance stick in main and KD in off (of the weapons you listed). Maybe sell them and snag an IFS, they're pretty cheap and should out dmg everything you've listed.

If not, download gamparse and find out for yourself which is the best dps. It is pretty easy to use, but if you have any questions, feel free to PM me and I can try to help out with whatever you're having trouble with.

Ok so I said if the adamantite club and jade mace were the only weapons he had.. I would use bare fist in off hand and club in main.. even at level 30 bare fist is higher dmg than the mace.

So I would avoid any advice from someone who does not comprehend the text :) ^

[webrunner5]

Buy a Peacebringer and be done with it. Or if your rich a T Staff. Leave every other weapon you have in the bank or sell them. End of story. Over and out.

[Enzo13]

Buy a Peacebringer and be done with it. Or if your rich a T Staff. Leave every other weapon you have in the bank or sell them. End of story. Over and out.

Did you even bother to read the original post? I'm sure he's very rich.. he's only 1k shy of buying a fbss.

[webrunner5]

Did you even bother to read the original post? I'm sure he's very rich.. he's only 1k shy of buying a fbss.

Then why don't you take some of your vast wealth on here and buy him a T Staff since you seem to know everything. Like using a bare fist at level 30 pfhh.

[Tecmos Deception]

Ratio means nothing in off hand

Some peoples' kids.

[Tecmos Deception]

I've got a Wu's Trance Stick, a Knuckle Duster, and a Quivering Staff. And no haste yet!

I was wondering if I should try to ditch the two 1h weapons and just keep my 2h or the other way around, It's mostly about if I should keep the Knuckle Duster or sell it, because I'm trying to afford other things like Jboots, an FBSS, or some Weight Reduction bags, About 1000pp away from getting my Jboots MQ, which is about what a Knuckle Duster is worth.

If I were you, I'd sell the KD and trance stick, wield the quivering staff all the time, and buy a fbss asap.

Jboots are great, but you can always get by moving a bit more slowly (it's not like you're a quad-kiting wizard and the jboots are truly an essential piece of your leveling, after all); you can buy a few sow pots too and use them just when travelling or if you're pulling in a no-sow group or something, and they should last you until you get the pp together for jboots. Really though, another 10 or so levels and I think you'd be able to camp your own jboots in sro.

WR bags are great, but the only ones that have significant % reduction AND are not heavy in and of themselves are very expensive (tink bag, dragon bags, etc, 5k+ each). Look for the .4 weight, low reduction (25%) bags like travelers and shralok and whatnot, and use those for your shurikens and bandages and whatnot. You will be better off on weight by leaving your extra weps behind and just using wu's, and being a little overweight is just something you'll need to be used to anyway cause it's very, very difficult to stay underweight for ANY monk until 55+ unless you're wielding gimpy, low-weight weapons and running around half-naked or in nothing but cured silk or something.

[Taiku]

Thanks for the advice guys, after more testing and switching between my 2h and 1h set, i certainly like my 2h more, it's too bad it's so heavy, but I think I will indeed try to sell my 1h weapons, I picked up a couple weight reduction bags too, I farmed a Shralok Pack, and I was given the one that is 1.0 weight 100% reduction SMALL only for my food/bandages/shurikens. And I think I will save up for an FBSS first off before my Jboots, I don't mind spending hours camping stuff (like my Shralok Pack) So maybe I'll be able to get both relatively soon. I learned how Haste works too and I've been doing the math to see ratios of all the different popular 2h monk weapons, I think I will try to stick with 2h, and just level my 1hb and h2h shortly every few levels to keep all my skills up. Anyone have an FBSS to sell? I would rather buy it from someone who is trying to be helpful on the forums than a random person in EC, I should have enough once I move this KD.

[Enzo13]

Then why don't you take some of your vast wealth on here and buy him a T Staff since you seem to know everything. Like using a bare fist at level 30 pfhh.

Again, you should probably reread a few times before remarking as you seem to comprehend very little. If I only had an ac and jm I would main hand the ac and off hand bare fist and sell the jm. If money wasn't an issue i'd go ac/sos and tstaff. I can explain in further detail if youre still having trouble understanding. Peace :p

btw i would do exactly what tecmo suggested in the above post.

[Taiku]

Well, I forgot that I was in a Dalnir raid when the server crashed last night, floor 3 ;-; guess i'll sit on my bank alt for a bit lol, anyone know how I would resolve that situation? x.x

(Edit: Nevermind I've got a guildy coming to clear out floor 3 for me so I can make a break for it)

[phobus]

Try farming yourself a Lionhide Backpack from SK (0.4 weight, 8 large slots, 35% WR, non-lore). Easy to get, and the mob that drops it also drops the Ring of Shadows (3 instant clicks of Invis, very handy).

[Arrisard]

Ratio means nothing in off hand

Why do you say that?

[Taiku]

Try farming yourself a Lionhide Backpack from SK (0.4 weight, 8 large slots, 35% WR, non-lore). Easy to get, and the mob that drops it also drops the Ring of Shadows (3 instant clicks of Invis, very handy).

oo.. I'll check that out, can I do that at level 30?

[phobus]

oo.. I'll check that out, can I do that at level 30?

I think so, yes - he's a level 25 SK (http://wiki.project1999.org/index.php/Groi_Gutblade).

[Rizher]

One's opinion without burden of fact is not worth a whole lot, as you can see from this post everyone has a different opinion.

All I can tell you is that a monk double attack maxes at 210 until you hit 51. I forget exactly when I hit this cap but I think it was like 40.

Duel wield caps at 252 in your early 40's. I am not sure when because I switched back to duel wield around 42.

Let me tell you that when you switch back to 2 1handers in the early 40's the DPS increases a lot.
If both are max, compare your double attack and duel wield. This should indicate what to use.

Hope this helps. I use Jade mace and SOS, peace bringer is in the bag for later.

[webrunner5]

Again, you should probably reread a few times before remarking as you seem to comprehend very little. If I only had an ac and jm I would main hand the ac and off hand bare fist and sell the jm. If money wasn't an issue i'd go ac/sos and tstaff. I can explain in further detail if youre still having trouble understanding. Peace :p

btw i would do exactly what tecmo suggested in the above post.

He said just what I said. Ditch the 1 handers and go 2 Hander. Smart guy. Not some silly ass bare hand crap.

[RahlaeRuffian]

I'm a little drunk and tired...how do ya'll feel about an monk with an IFS?

[Enzo13]

Why do you say that?

Because your off hand stike is based on your dual wield skill.. sorta like a proc of the main hand. So typically you'd shoot for a high dmg high delay weapon in your off hand to increase dps. I'm sure webrunner5 will disagree, he seems to know a lot about this stuff :)

[Enzo13]

He said just what I said. Ditch the 1 handers and go 2 Hander. Smart guy. Not some silly ass bare hand crap.

Fail ;)

[Arrisard]

So what you're saying is that, for DPS, a Stave of Shielding (17/28) will out parse a Wu's Fist (16/22) in the offhand?

[Tasslehofp99]

Im interested in this conversation. Currently on my monk who is lvl 58 with Epic and around 210-245 str depending on buffs/situation I use either h2h main/SoS offhand or AC main/SoS offhand. The highest DPS i've parsed is 84 with the AC/SOS, and with that combo i average around 60-65. With the h2h main/SoS offhand it averages around 55-60 dps, but I've been told it should be better DPS then the AC/SOS. Any imput on this?

[Enzo13]

So what you're saying is that, for DPS, a Stave of Shielding (17/28) will out parse a Wu's Fist (16/22) in the offhand?

Yes delay doesn't factor into off hand.

[Arrisard]

If that is the case, why does the offhand swing with no primary weapon equipped? Why do a very significant portion of offhand checks happen at different times than main hand swings if they are linked?

[Enzo13]

Im interested in this conversation. Currently on my monk who is lvl 58 with Epic and around 210-245 str depending on buffs/situation I use either h2h main/SoS offhand or AC main/SoS offhand. The highest DPS i've parsed is 84 with the AC/SOS, and with that combo i average around 60-65. With the h2h main/SoS offhand it averages around 55-60 dps, but I've been told it should be better DPS then the AC/SOS. Any imput on this?

h2h at level 58 is 14/28 hum and 14/29 iksar.. so ac in main hand would be better dps

[Arrisard]

Fists are 9/16 for epic monks for any race/level.

[Enzo13]

If that is the case, why does the offhand swing with no primary weapon equipped? Why do a very significant portion of offhand checks happen at different times than main hand swings if they are linked?

with no main hand weapon equipped your fist is your primary weapon.

[Enzo13]

Fists are 9/16 for epic monks for any race/level.

yeah i missed the part about him having his epic :o

[Arrisard]

When I have an instrument, stein, GLS, etc, equipped in the primary?

[Enzo13]

but the ac still has slighty higher dmg/dly ratio than the cf

[Enzo13]

And when I have an instrument, a stein, GLS, etc, equipped in the primary?

i believe you will still swing regardless whats equipped.. so maybe dual wield works independantly off a rng :) I've just always understood it as working off your main hand as a proc.. either way delay still plays no part in off hand weapons.. to my knowledge :)

[Arrisard]

Then again I pose the question, why are my offhand swings then not in sync with my primary hand swings if the offhand checks on the primary hand swings regardless of the offhand's delay?

[isoka]

Im interested in this conversation. Currently on my monk who is lvl 58 with Epic and around 210-245 str depending on buffs/situation I use either h2h main/SoS offhand or AC main/SoS offhand. The highest DPS i've parsed is 84 with the AC/SOS, and with that combo i average around 60-65. With the h2h main/SoS offhand it averages around 55-60 dps, but I've been told it should be better DPS then the AC/SOS. Any imput on this?

I didn't do any parse, but I prefer using AC/SoS rather than fist/SoS because the AC has a nice stun+DD effect.
Also, h2h caps at 60 (+5 skill each level) whereas 1hblunt is capped way before. So at 58, your ATK will be lower with fist as main hand than with AC, which might explain why you have a lower DPS.
Also, keep in mind that even at 60, 1hblunt skill is higher than h2h

[Enzo13]

Then again I pose the question, why are my offhand swings then not in sync with my primary hand swings if the offhand checks on the primary hand swings regardless of the offhand's delay?

Because you may lose your balance when trying to swing both weapons simultaneously? :) Seriously though.. like i said dual wield may work independantly from the main hand off a random number generator or something.. but from what ive read i understand it differently.. just my personal interpretation of the text :)

[theaetatus]

Also, if you're poor don't buy a jboots MQ, just wait a few levels and camp it.

[Cippofra]

off hand is a proc that has a higher chance of proccing depending on dual wield skill. if you have a 20 delay off hand, every 2 seconds you have a chance to strike depending on dual wield skill level

[Arrisard]

Because you may lose your balance when trying to swing both weapons simultaneously? :) Seriously though.. like i said dual wield may work independantly from the main hand off a random number generator or something.. but from what ive read i understand it differently.. just my personal interpretation of the text :)

If the swing-check for the off-hand is disconnected from the off-hand delay, then a Sebilite Croaking Dirk (10/18) should, over-time, swing on average the same number of times as a Wurmslayer (25/40) in the offhand should it not?

This is not what is observed. The faster weapon will produce more attack rounds in a sizable sample of off-hand attacks, with either an actual weapon or non-weapon equipped in the primary.

If the off-hand swing check is the same regardless of delay, how is this possible?

[Enzo13]

off hand is a proc that has a higher chance of proccing depending on dual wield skill. if you have a 20 delay off hand, every 2 seconds you have a chance to strike depending on dual wield skill level

Well I'm convinced.. Thanks man you cleared that up pretty quickly.. i'm always happy to learn :)

This is all you needed to say Arrisard.. i think you were just messin with me :p

Peace

[Arrisard]

i think you were just messin with me :p

Only a little.

Besides, I find actual discussion more valuable and respectful than simple statements of "No, you're wrong". I could very well be missing some piece of vital information I have over looked that has completely skewed my observations. It wouldn't be the first time.

I also like to hear myself talk.

[Happyfeet]

I prefer fist/sos on my 59 monk. Some parses from the verix clear a min ago. Problem is there's a 1 lvl gap, and my haste is better. We were pulling like 4-5 at a time, so sometimes we were on diff mobs...I'll redo it later with a closer comparison
Crappyfeet = Fist/SOS // cof/rbg/epic/59
Maxpower = AC/SOS // Skybelt/epic/60


/G Decayed prisoner in 60s, 6k @105dps --- Crappyfeet 2k @60dps (37.31%) --- Maxpower 2k @39dps (36.23%) --- Kabann 2k @47dps (26.46%) --- Taelara 0k @0dps (0%)

/G Decayed soldier in 44s, 7k @163dps --- Crappyfeet 2k @58dps (34.82%) --- Maxpower 2k @54dps (33.08%) --- Kabann 2k @56dps (32.1%)

/G Decayed soldier in 30s, 6k @199dps --- Kabann 2k @68dps (31.95%) --- Maxpower 2k @61dps (30.61%) --- Crappyfeet 1k @46dps (22.26%) --- Zararn 1k @41dps (15.18%)

/G Decayed soldier in 35s, 6k @174dps --- Maxpower 2k @50dps (29.02%) --- Crappyfeet 2k @64dps (28.53%) --- Kabann 2k @52dps (28.43%) --- Zararn 1k @27dps (14.02%)

/G Verix Kyloxs remains in 55s, 6k @118dps --- Crappyfeet 2k @53dps (34.13%) --- Kabann 2k @49dps (33.2%) --- Zararn 1k @29dps (19.56%) --- Maxpower 1k @16dps (13.11%) --- Taelara 0k @0dps (0%) - max slowed obv.

/G Decayed soldier in 134s, 8k @57dps --- Crappyfeet 3k @26dps (36.41%) --- Kabann 3k @46dps (35.31%) --- Maxpower 2k @17dps (24.01%) --- Zararn 0k @22dps (4.27%) --- Taelara 0k @0dps (0%) --- Lekter 0k @0dps (0%) - Both of us slowed.

/G Decayed soldier in 48s, 7k @156dps --- Crappyfeet 3k @55dps (34.16%) --- Kabann 2k @54dps (33.43%) --- Maxpower 2k @50dps (32.41%)

[Pan]

Generally, for pure dps:

If you see a monk using 1h from L10 to epic, either s/he is getting skillups or not paying attention. Period.

If you see an epic-ed monk with an AC in the mainhand (as day-to-day weapon), s/he has never parsed. Period.