What EQ PvP is about

[Dullah]

Since to this day, theres still a ton of confusion being propagated about what EQ PvP really is, and since 99% of the people on these forums didn't play EQ PvP on live, or weren't old enough to accurately recall it, let me draw you a picture.

EQ PvP is

http://i.imgur.com/0Ybnx.jpg + PvP

That means getting:

http://i.imgur.com/vzIFL.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/HPT6G.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/MmQBq.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/OsvCc.jpg
to kill
http://i.imgur.com/sgNKm.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/Vqmuz.jpg

EQ PvP is NOT

http://i.imgur.com/gg2R6.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/G33HZ.jpg can fight http://i.imgur.com/mlH95.jpg

to get rights to

[Dullah]

http://i.imgur.com/vzIFL.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/HPT6G.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/MmQBq.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/OsvCc.jpg

These guys
http://i.imgur.com/2vNAl.jpg

can fight

these guys
http://i.imgur.com/VAvUj.png

to get rights to

http://i.imgur.com/vzIFL.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/HPT6G.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/MmQBq.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/OsvCc.jpg

[Dullah]

Once again

EQ PvP is NOT

http://i.imgur.com/gg2R6.jpg

Thank you.

[Nirgon]

You know on Rallos I could fight:

http://i.imgur.com/mlH95.jpg

and get

http://i.imgur.com/vzIFL.jpg

just saying and you know it.

[heartbrand]

That pic from Live of the t3 UF raid was hard as fuck. Got a big rush when we finally beat that one. But that's the point, if I wanted that rush from raiding I'd be on live. I'm here for pvp. thx

[Dullah]

Who are you kidding?

You sat in dungeons grinding and farming loot 99% of the time you played on this server. When pvp did happen, you begged people not to corpse camp you (myself included).

EQ does not stop being EQ because PvP is involved.

[heartbrand]

destin perpetually mad that he was a non-factor on this server and wasn't even level 10 when the big boys were out PVPing. still asking Cast for permission to grind the hermit in SK bro? It's ok your butt will eventually heal from the wounds pal

[Dullah]

^Obviously angry/offended knee-jerk response. Learn to mask your emotions better, you're doing it wrong.

[heartbrand]

^this guy so mad that his b.s. won't work with me here

[Nirgon]

HB please don't side track my legit discussion disproving that EQ PvP wasn't about killing

http://i.imgur.com/mlH95.jpg

to get

http://i.imgur.com/vzIFL.jpg

[heartbrand]

Item loot would change this server in great ways if it was implemented correctly

[Nirgon]

AKA people can have planar gear and self buffs and not ever get rooted :P.

It's really an advantage for Nihi seeing as they probably have a lion's share of no drop.

If it is implemented as 1 item (no main or off hand), I can rally some troops.

Otherwise, I shall be waiting.

[Tycko]

Item loot would change this server in great ways if it was implemented correctly

Yeah, everyone would roam the server as a caster looking for easy loot. I don't think it would be "great" though.

[Tradesonred]

lol @ dragon loots

I played EQ on Rallos for almost 2 years, only reached 44, cuz i was too busy not giving a fuck about racing to the top and having fun pvping in zones like Gfay/Crushbone pvp central

You think people rolling on a pvp server will care about whats down the line 3 months from now after they grinded alone in an empty server?

Newsflash: If they here to pvp, and they cant find it or repeatedly eat xp death to twinks, guess what will happen

Yeah, yeah, we know you and your 20 buddies wont quit the box, im talking about the rest of the people who potentially could stay on the server.

[heartbrand]

If resists were classic coupled with the huge boosts melees receive in Kunark, this would be much less of a worry.

[Nirgon]

You mean people would log in? And you think everyone would?

Man wouldn't that be something.

Hoping to get an official (read: staff) response.

No one is going to leave over this that's already playing.

[Dullah]

Item loot would never work here. I don't mind, because I'm good at pvp, but I can't see them changing that mechanic at this point because its a game breaker for too many people. Its not what they signed up for.

[Lucky]

EQ PvP That means getting:

http://i.imgur.com/vzIFL.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/HPT6G.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/MmQBq.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/OsvCc.jpg
to kill
http://i.imgur.com/sgNKm.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/Vqmuz.jpg


lol @ OP. "EQPvP is about mindlessly farming gear to slay dragons designed to be defeated"


ty for proving your blueness and no you weren't clever about it at all

[Dullah]

There are more pictures for you to look at on that post. I know reading is hard for you, but surely you can at least look at all the pictures.

[Lucky]

Yea I read it, you are blue as fuck

[Tradesonred]

Yea I read it, you are blue as fuck

[Tr0llb0rn]

Best OP in a long long time, bravo

I hope the wisdom of this sinks into everyones brain.


signed,

EQ pvper from the real 1999

[heartbrand]

I don't mind, because I can click ice comet

[heartbrand]

Best OP in a long long time, bravo

I hope the wisdom of this sinks into everyones brain.


signed,

EQ pvper from the real 1999

cool who was your character on rz, what guild were you in and when did you quit?

[Dullah]

I'm crushed that you think that.

12 years of PvP servers and I own every online fps title in the last decade, yet I'm blue.

Is the guy that bucked the call out chiming in when he was afraid to come pvp me? Theres a laugh.

Almost as funny as HB pretending he played on RZ.

[Nirgon]

I think you're pretty blue for not wanting item loot and you of all people should know way better to post something like the original having played on RZ.

Tr0llb0rn wants to farm pve on a low pop server, fine.

I don't want YT, though a leaderboard would be fun. I don't want insta max level either. I want a RZ rule set (classic 99) PvP server. Let me know when that comes around.

[Dullah]

Never said I didn't want item loot, its just not good for the server. Nor is it what this thread was about.

[Nirgon]

If you get 30 more people to log in because of it, it's good for the server.

Maybe if the pop shows over 150, through any means necessary, others won't be so discouraged from logging in. Who knows.

[Dullah]

30 logging in and another 30 logging out because of it doesn't seem to justify the mean.

And in all honesty, most of the people professing themselves pvpers are far too thin skinned. Their little egos can't handle it which can be seen from their rage logging and guild wide rage quitting the server when they are beaten in pvp.

I'm fairly certain that most of the "hardcore pvpers" that front on these forums (make me lol) would be the biggest babies about item loot. They'd have the game uninstalled by the end of the first week.

Anywho, thats all I got to say about item loot. I loved it on RZ, just don't think it would work here. My opinion. Personally, I'm all for it, just not for this server. I'd be thrilled, but again, fairly sure it won't happen. Its a major server mechanic to change, and a lot of people with 1000s of hours didn't sign up for it.

It would also be imperative that the resists be tweaked to work as closely to classic as possible. Getting root ganked with 120MR and losing an item would pretty much be GG for this server.

[Tradesonred]

I can tell you whats EQ pvp not about: Sitting in fear for months with no pvp happening

[Dullah]

a lot of time put into this thread

Lol, i did spend about 30-45 min on google images and imgur, but I was laughing the entire time, so well worth it.

[Dullah]

I can tell you whats EQ pvp not about: Sitting in fear for months with no pvp happening
That's where you'd be wrong.

On RZ, we still sat in fear for hours gearing up to pvp and continue progressing in the game of Everquest. As far as no PvP, that was because the two major guilds quit after getting their asses handed to them. Numerous screenshots of us rolling into fear, clearing them out. Champions of fear bro.

Every post you make only reflects how little you know about what EQ PvP really is.

[Tradesonred]

I didnt say hours, i said months logging in to bluebieing it up and everybody logging off once pve is done with, rinse repeat the next day.

Beside the odd Nihi who would duke it out in Guk like me and Hughman

[Nirgon]

a lot of people
Lot of people? Where? Here? If you haven't noticed..


It would also be imperative that the resists be tweaked to work as closely to classic as possible


Yeah when's that happening again?

Oh keep telling yourself I stopped playing because of PvP.

My now verified reasons for leaving could be posted at the cost of being banned and my post shortly erased.

Here's a hint, same reason I don't want Sarah Palin winning a presidential election - oh and broken resists that too.

[Dullah]

No idea.

Before anything else happens, if Rogean and Nilbog are gonna look to show red some love, resists are where they should start. They are a lot better than the last time you probably played, but still not classic.

[Nirgon]

Is "a lot better" mean I have 90 magic resist and 5 people spamming root on me land one 1 in 10 chance each?

I was against the xp boost but it appeared to keep some. Fine. I still think it shouldn't exist, whatever.

I was against global ooc, but with such a low pop, I came to agreement with it. If the pop ever hits a certain higher #, it should go away agian.

I'll tell you what's good for the server, god damnit!

[Dullah]

I played Rakariz primarily during kunark-velious era.

Rogean actually up in our threads, talking about givin red some attention. Ya, it blew my mind too.

[Nirgon]

I think Null has to fix the resists.

Rogean knows there is absolutely nothing coming out good gaming wise for a while.

Maybe he knows its time for blue velious and fix red. Might as well.

[Dullah]

Is "a lot better" mean I have 90 magic resist and 5 people spamming root on me land one 1 in 10 chance each?

I was against the xp boost but it appeared to keep some. Fine. I still think it shouldn't exist, whatever.

I was against global ooc, but with such a low pop, I came to agreement with it. If the pop ever hits a certain higher #, it should go away agian.

I'll tell you what's good for the server, god damnit!
You know I'm in the same boat as you. I agree with all that stuff, and took the same positions. I think if the server pop picks up, global OOC should be only usable once a minute. Right now its pretty nice.

[Nirgon]

It should be gone completely if the pop picks up. Non classic, kill it with fire.

I sided with and argued for it to try and help things here, much like the xp curve, because it was desperately needed.

Add item loot.

[Lucky]

That's where you'd be wrong.

On RZ, we still sat in fear for hours gearing up to pvp and continue progressing in the game of Everquest. As far as no PvP, that was because the two major guilds quit after getting their asses handed to them. Numerous screenshots of us rolling into fear, clearing them out. Champions of fear bro.

Every post you make only reflects how little you know about what EQ PvP really is.

That's true, RZ was blue as fuck with the hand holding. Salutations to the few pvp heroes.

[Dullah]

Maybe you should find a game that suits you better.

Classic EQ pvp is obviously not for you.

[Nirgon]

I think once Dullah realizes that I really stand for the truth and success, he may change his tune.

[Dullah]

I think once Dullah realizes that I really stand for the truth and success, he may change his tune.
Don't know what you mean. We've been almost entirely in agreement on this forum.

[Nirgon]

Not entirely on what's good and bad for the server, what's ac... screw it, lemme know when we open formal item loot discussions here and root spam isn't a pvp tactic

[Dullah]

You should probably create or bump a thread for resists to get it more exposure. Its something that pretty much everyone agrees with.

[Zuranthium]

A lot of EQ PvPers didn't play to fight over high-level loot. They played to run around and kill other players and to add an extra level of danger and realism into the gaming experience. Well-implemented World PvP in an MMORPG is something we've yet to see. That's certainly the basis of what EQ PvP was trying to accomplish originally. Everyone seems to forget that EQ is supposed to a massive, videographic version of D&D.

[Tradesonred]

A lot of EQ PvPers didn't play to fight over high-level loot. They played to run around and kill other players and to add an extra level of danger and realism into the gaming experience.

[Dullah]

A lot of EQ PvPers didn't play to fight over high-level loot. They played to run around and kill other players and to add an extra level of danger and realism into the gaming experience. Well-implemented World PvP in an MMORPG is something we've yet to see. That's certainly the basis of what EQ PvP was trying to accomplish originally. Everyone seems to forget that EQ is supposed to a massive, videographic version of D&D.

That was about by far the minority on live.

Here its still by far the minority, but their presence on the forum is louder. As long as people keep repeating that PvP only mantra, people will keep joining Nihilum. You can read LoZ boards and know that the people who talk that game here, talk the exact opposite there. EQ is about player progression first and foremost. Without character advancement, PvP gets increasingly hard and increasingly boring.

[Tradesonred]

That was about by far the minority on live.


Nice conclusion, now prove it.

[Dullah]

The top 10 guilds on the server were anti-pk guilds. Every raiding on the server was anti-pk, as well as every alliance.

Those alliances were at war with each other, but none of them random PK'd. Just because you're ignorant of reality, doesn't make it not so. I'd love to take my time machine back and take some screenshots, but alas, it needs a new alternator.

[Tradesonred]

The top 10 guilds on the server were anti-pk guilds. Every raiding on the server was anti-pk, as well as every alliance.

Those alliances were at war with each other, but none of them random PK'd. Just because you're ignorant of reality, doesn't make it not so. I'd love to take my time machine back and take some screenshots, but alas, it needs a new alternator.

Lol i was anti-pk, there was so many pk guilds that it didnt matter which side you chose, it was a target rich environement.

Flowers, malicious intent, scary pirates, artful death, all those other guilds i dont remember, there was tons of people to pvp with each hour of the day, didnt need to random PK.

You got attacked so often starting out that you could fill up a shitlist page in a day.

[Dullah]

Maybe if you leveled past your 30s or 40s, you'd know that there was way more pve than pvp at upper levels, in high lvl dungeons and zones. Unless you were looking for guildwar targets, you were just playing EQ like anyone else would, on any other server. Thats the point. Thats classic EQ. You have the option of doing either, but it was not nonstop pvp unless you were sitting in a newbie area on a newbie char.

[Tradesonred]

Maybe if you leveled past your 30s or 40s, you'd know that there was way more pve than pvp at upper levels, in high lvl dungeons and zones. Unless you were looking for guildwar targets, you were just playing EQ like anyone else would, on any other server. Thats the point. Thats classic EQ. You have the option of doing either, but it was not nonstop pvp unless you were sitting in a newbie area on a newbie char.

It also depends what period you played, and if you raced to the top. Library, Parts of velious with heavy transits (that zone near that indoor town), that place in velious with the cook gargoyle, all those were pvp heavy areas through my 30s during 2001

[Nirgon]

The top 10 guilds on the server were anti-pk guilds.

Top 10 guilds in terms of what? PvE progression?

I know the botb winners were, I definitely wouldn't consider them anti-pk but they didn't random.

Also, there was definitely a rather sizable random pk population.

[Dullah]

There was like what, 1 or 2 guilds that had high level pks? They were permabanned from doing any dungeons, I hardly ever saw them.

If you're not pk, your anti-pk. Doesn't mean anti-pvp, but they didn't roll around killing just anyone.

Prior to Luclin, i can think of like DB.. who else?

[bamzal]

classic eq pvp wasnt about getting rooted or snared or hit by anything magic base. there were whole other aspects that required entirely different skillset that is nonexistant here. not classic

[Tradesonred]

If youre really being honest about EQ pvp being about endgame fighting over content, then youd want people to actually go out and challenge Nihi on raids.

Id go and fuckin 5v30 all nite against Nihi but regrinding all that xp afterwards id rather poke my eyes out with rusted forks.

Thats the biggest prob to me with xp loss, somebodys always gonna be the zerg, and nobody is going to bother trying to stop em when you have to spend hours grinding back the xp youll lose fighting an uphill battle because its boring as fuck.

Holocaust didnt wanna admit that, because they were having their fun griefing noobs and afk people with the xp loss mechanic, so it served them as well.

[Whit]

I want a RZ rule set (classic 99) PvP server. Let me know when that comes around.

This. Classic rule set. That's what this place touts-- classic. Where's the risk? Couldn't kill the server any more than it's already dead dead dead.

[gprater]

I like the added challenge that pvp adds to playing a pve game. If i try to kill another player its to gain advantage in the game by gaining position, camp, or a mob.

Unfortunately there are far too many folks on most pvp servers, including this one at one time, that kill other players solely to cause grief to the human sitting at the keyboard.

So it's either pixel vs pixel OR human vs human. If there is too much of the latter I leave because it's simply not fun. That's the way I see it.

[Dullah]

I like the added challenge that pvp adds to playing a pve game. If i try to kill another player its to gain advantage in the game by gaining position, camp, or a mob.

Unfortunately there are far too many folks on most pvp servers, including this one at one time, that kill other players solely to cause grief to the human sitting at the keyboard.

So it's either pixel vs pixel OR human vs human. If there is too much of the latter I leave because it's simply not fun. That's the way I see it.

Exactly.

To what end? You gain nothing but the possibility of a few coins. At least on rz you had a chance at items. Think about how quickly call of duty or bf3 would get boring if you had no advancement through fighting other players. Every fps thats come out in the last 15 years got exponentially more unlocks to make playing the same 10 maps 1000 times fun.

Without an objective (content) to fight over, pvp gets boring. I had a great time pvping over Lguk (manastone/guise), pof and so forth. Outside of that, people only stand to make jerks out of themselves by killing every single player that hasn't even aligned themselves against them. Thats why they couldn't compete as guilds, or establish alliances - they were too busy fighting everyone over nothing. Think about how things could have been different if Holo / FF wouldn't have alienated so many players thru just random PKing. They'd could have recruited more players, and spent more time fighting us. Heck, they could of even found a way to ally up with each other to accomplish a common goal. Its hard for anyone to not go to Nihilum when they were the only guild that didn't random PK (for the most part).

As far as I'm concerned, something like leaderboards is only going to make this sort of game play worse, and make the server far less appealing to the average player.

[SearyxTZ]

Dullah: You aren't the authority on "what EQ pvp is about", and it is more than a little ironic that you're even talking about pvp given the recent state of the server (it's still just one guild raiding pve stuff uncontested, right?).


Without an objective (content) to fight over, pvp gets boring.

To you. Not to everyone.

For me, I played Counterstrike With Elves. I also played a lot of Counterstrike Without Elves. Never thought either was boring.

Conversely, grinding experience in MMORPGs always has been. There's no challenge or stimulation to it. Item progression and territory/spawn control did enrich the PvP, sure. That's what made it so appealing and different. I'd always want to establish zone control for the dark team -- certain zones were "mine", but I didn't really care about the stuff inside them. I didn't do raids. I liked fighting people with better gear than me because they spent all that time raiding instead of fighting players, and would lose despite holding an advantage because their priorities were the same as what you're peddling in this thread.

We can both agree that the PvP and PvE blend is what made red EQ great, but there are two approaches here that cleanly separate the two of us (and the red playerbase in general):

1.) "I really want to kill those goblins and grind exp and get more items.... but some other players are in my way"

2.) "I really want to kill those players.... but some goblins are in my way and I need a few more levels"


Fundamentally, you have to assume that #2 contains a greater number of people and makes a better case for "what EQ PvP is about". Because the people who keep the first mindset can already get that on a blue server.

[SearyxTZ]

http://fancydresscostumes.co.uk/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/pug-clothing-tuxedo-costume.jpeg

[heartbrand]

^ post of the year candidate

[Tr0llb0rn]

So glad Searyx found this thread, I was about to launch a massive media campaign to get the wisdom from the OP to him because he more then most in this community needed to ingrain this message deep DEEP within his skull.

Searyx, you quit before hitting lvl 40 and have been adrift within a great sea of WoW-clones and counterstrike clones because you have not really grasped what red EQ is really about.

But thanks to Destin you can know discover for the first time the truth about Red Classic EQ. He broke it down to you with pictures, you can get it now.

I'm gonna be referenceing the OP of this thread more then Oprah from now on, its such golden info and cuts to the VERY heart of what Classic Red Legit EQ is all about.

Those that cant handle this TRUTH well........ then Classic Red Legit EQ is just NOT for you.

edit:

Signed,

A veteran of Rallos Zek and Sullon Zek

[SearyxTZ]

http://www.debbieschlussel.com/archives/oprahsowhat.jpg

[SearyxTZ]

Brushing aside neckbearded philosophizing on the nature of red server Everquest, I'll be keeping an eye on this box to see how it does with upcoming Kubark release.


I was hoping Nildog would put teams in, but the exp boost (announced in advance! to the players! on the forum!) is a good move. I'm skeptical that current/committed LoZ players will jump ship for it, but it will probably bring back some players who just haven't been playing at all.

[Salem Orchid]

dang I've been playing this game wrong the whole time, I was under the assumption I should be having fun

[SearyxTZ]

gotta get the prima strategy guide for Kubark

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61BE7ACGN0L._SL500_AA300_.jpg

[Salem Orchid]

#2

[Dullah]

@searyx

As I've said before, there are many approaches to EQ pvp, but the underlying philosophy on this forum is that "pve killed the server", which is entirely false, and more the product of bitter resentment (butthurt).

I think people should play for what they want, but pretending that EQ isn't a pve game first, is a joke.

Also, ironically all those with the pvp only philosophy changed their tune really fast on LoZ. Look at who the big time raiders and item campers are, and what they post about on the boards. Everything they said here was nothing more than trollin.

[Tr0llb0rn]

dang I've been playing this game wrong the whole time, I was under the assumption I should be having fun

You play the game the way you want. YOU have not quit, your enjoying the server set up.

Its the people who bitch and moan all day long (while not playing) (like Searyx) about "the server should cater more to my counter-strike-with-elves" vision that are the issue here.

The server is set up currently in the same vision that true classic red legit EQ was in 1999, as illustrated by Destin in the first two posts.

How you choose to play within that sandbox, is your choice. So Bravo for enjoying this classic red legit sandbox Salem, you are doing it right.

The sidelinders who are bitching about things being too classic from them to handle are doing it WRONG.

signed,

Veteran of Rallos Zek and Sullon Zek

p.s. Searyx: Really?? So still you are gonna just wait and watch from the internet instead of playing and being part of the solution? Whatever, stay on LoZ, please. Classic Red Legit EQ is just not for you.

[mindsculptor]

If youre really being honest about EQ pvp being about endgame fighting over content, then youd want people to actually go out and challenge Nihi on raids.

Id go and fuckin 5v30 all nite against Nihi but regrinding all that xp afterwards id rather poke my eyes out with rusted forks.

Thats the biggest prob to me with xp loss, somebodys always gonna be the zerg, and nobody is going to bother trying to stop em when you have to spend hours grinding back the xp youll lose fighting an uphill battle because its boring as fuck.

Holocaust didnt wanna admit that, because they were having their fun griefing noobs and afk people with the xp loss mechanic, so it served them as well.

going 5v30 is not really challenging a raid its just griefing a raid, b/c other than phinny your 5 man force cannot actually do any raid. If you are going to take 5 people and spend all night trying to prevent a raid from being successful I think its fitting that you should have to do some work to recover from banging your head against a wall in order to annoy people.

I am pretty indifferent to xp loss on pvp death b/c the amount of xp lost is fairly inconsequential anyway(I guess unless you are taking 20+pvp deaths in a row), but "I want to piss off Nihilum without consequence" is a bad argument imo.

I agree that the server will be much more interesting when people are challenging Nihi, but challenge them in a way that you can actually kill the target after you wear them down.

[Zuranthium]

Without an objective (content) to fight over, pvp gets boring.

Only with the game as it is. PvP is not at all boring when implemented such that the game is actually built for it. If there were leaderboards and more incentives for PvPing and combat was interesting, then many people would want to do nothing but PvP.

[Barkingturtle]

Only with the game as it is. PvP is not at all boring when implemented such that the game is actually built for it. If there were leaderboards and more incentives for PvPing and combat was interesting, then many people would want to do nothing but PvP.

How is a leader-board more incentive than rights to a camp or a raid mob?

I guess to me the leader-board thing is just silly. It's a spread-sheet. Who wants to be king of the spread-sheet? Furthermore, if you don't find the combat "interesting" you are probably just playing the wrong game.

[Dullah]

How is a leader-board more incentive than rights to a camp or a raid mob?

I guess to me the leader-board thing is just silly. It's a spread-sheet. Who wants to be king of the spread-sheet? Furthermore, if you don't find the combat "interesting" you are probably just playing the wrong game.

^

Its sounds like you're looking for a WoW or swtor. Something that doesn't have the open world pvp that EQ offers, with 100% contestable content. This is classic EQ. You shouldn't have to manufacture reasons to PvP, when they're already built into the game. I understand the desire to have the server thrive hard, but at what cost? If the end result is a compromised EQ, people who actually like the game are going to feel short changed.

[Rallyd]

Server should have been item loot from the start, it wasn't. It cannot be changed now, would be too detrimental. However exp loss definitely needs to be changed before kubark.

Losing exp during the 100% pure hell levels of 51-60 will be even worse, and I think we all can agree that we would pvp a lot more if there wasn't that exp loss hanging over our head. Do like it was on RZ, pvp death resulted in respawn with 30% hp and 0% mana. PVE death still resulted in full mana and health on respawn. This is actually an important distinction because if you were willing to take the pve death, you could "ring" (IE pull off a high hp item) to cause PVE death and avoid item loss (doesnt matter cuz we cant have item loot) and spawn with full mana and hp.

[heartbrand]

Agree with rallyd.

[Tradesonred]

If you are going to take 5 people and spend all night trying to prevent a raid from being successful I think its fitting that you should have to do some work to recover from banging your head against a wall in order to annoy people.

I agree.

Not from trying for 30 minutes though, where i will be banging my head against a wall of pve xp grind for giving a shot at cockblocking a raid guild that has seen no opposition for months.

I think making xp loss in pvp irrelevant to the point that as long as youre not going to die for a couple hours in a row, youre not going to feel it is an acceptable compromise.

Dont forget you still have to sit down and med after each death.

Its not like a zerg is going to try hard to kill 5 people, its just an extra challenge.

[Whit]

Classic Red Legit EQ
is not classic.

[mitic]

item loot never worked well. meles are pretty much screwed and caster pk other players nakid. besides that, one lag spike during a fight makes u lose an item u camped for endless hours. there was a reason why there hasn't been another server with item loot after RZ.

besides that, numbers tripped on daxums vztz server 3-4 years ago the moment item loot was taken out.

I know that nilbog wanted to have item loot even before red was launched but then pop wouldn't be 50 but more like 0 right now.

[Tr0llb0rn]

also re: item loot

remember going LD with your trak BP on?

yeah

no thanks.

[Juugox2]

WINNINGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG GGGGGGG

[SearyxTZ]

also re: item loot

remember going LD with your trak BP on?

yeah

no thanks.

most of us aren't using AOL dial-up anymore in 2012 bro

[Nizzarr]

not pleased with the probably upcoming yellow text, the trolls want item loot now.

[Salem Orchid]

XP loss is nice in pvp, I dig it. Medium Risk High Reward, pretty much a good time.

[SearyxTZ]

I'm not in the item loot camp btw.

I prefer it and think it owns, but every time we did it on VZTZ, the population dropped because it was too hardcore risk/reward for some people.


Dullah: I agree EQ is a PvE game first. In fact it was a PvE game where they basically just flipped the PvP switch and it happened to work really damn well. Of course almost every MMO since then has ignored that awesomeness in favor of a clean PvE/PvP split and leaning heavily on instancing (ie: death to world pvp), but that's another conversation.

You should really acknowledge that the "counterstrike with elves" players are a sizable contingent (probably the larger one) of the red population. Red servers need both the PvE-first people and the PvP-first people. The classic red servers accommodated both crowds, believe it or not.

[Tradesonred]

You should really acknowledge that the "counterstrike with elves" players are a sizable contingent (probably the larger one) of the red population. Red servers need both the PvE-first people and the PvP-first people. The classic red servers accommodated both crowds, believe it or not.

And right now theres no balance between those 2, its all tilted toward heavy pvp xp loss for poopsock camp control. The thing is you could still control camps with less harsh xp loss, youd just have to work at it a bit.

[Akim]

Yea I read it, you are blue as fuck

I'm hard as fuck.
I think these people are mad.

[SearyxTZ]

Pvp exp loss is one of those things that nobody wanted in the first place and that all I ever see on the forums is calling for it to be removed. Nildog should absolutely ditch that and I'm sure no tears would be shed.


It's a nonsensical no-reward feature that actually lends to griefing, discourages pvp, and forces more grinding.

If someone put up a poll on it I bet it would landslide at something like 90/10 to just remove it.

[Rushmore]

Pvp exp loss is one of those things that nobody wanted in the first place and that all I ever see on the forums is calling for it to be removed. Nildog should absolutely ditch that and I'm sure no tears would be shed.


It's a nonsensical no-reward feature that actually lends to griefing, discourages pvp, and forces more grinding.

If someone put up a poll on it I bet it would landslide at something like 90/10 to just remove it.

put up the poll then sir!

[Zozo]

I'm hard as fuck.

Fuck. Yes.

[SamwiseBanned]

only people who want item loot are people who dont play and wizards.

[Dullah]

Dullah: I agree EQ is a PvE game first. In fact it was a PvE game where they basically just flipped the PvP switch and it happened to work really damn well. Of course almost every MMO since then has ignored that awesomeness in favor of a clean PvE/PvP split and leaning heavily on instancing (ie: death to world pvp), but that's another conversation.

You should really acknowledge that the "counterstrike with elves" players are a sizable contingent (probably the larger one) of the red population. Red servers need both the PvE-first people and the PvP-first people. The classic red servers accommodated both crowds, believe it or not.

I acknowledge they are the more vocal, but more sizable, not even close. Even if half the players at launch actually had no intention of staying after being griefed and harassed for a month, those that were left over were still predominantly the "pve-first" crowd. Truth be told, many of the people, esp on the forums that later mocked bluebies claiming to be hardcore pvpers, were the biggest bluebies. Take a look at LoZ and their forums for further evidence.

We do need both crowds for the server to grow. A splintered pvp community is a lonely one. EQ PvP was almost sandbox in that, though you couldn't manipulate the world, everything else in an open world game like EQ could be controlled and determined by players. It takes all kinds, and as long as respect is shown from both sides, theres no reason it shouldn't thrive given half a chance by an active staff.

[SamwiseRed]

pics were nice, decent thread. Kinda like Destin after reading him slap his dick all overs HBs face. if only I was deceived by HB i could have enjoyed this thread a lot sooner.

[Erebus]

I wish 3 things about PvP:

1 - yellow text (this is server-wide pvp kill/death message right?)
2 - no exp loss
3 - full or partial inventory, but not equipment, loot. fuck your clickies.

[hagard]

if I wanted that rush from raiding I'd be on live. I'm here for pvp. thx

What a gem

[Tippett]

exp loss on pvp still dumb imo

[heartbrand]

Waited up to 230am for PVP tonight and got it ;)

[Rettii]

destin perpetually mad that he was a non-factor on this server and wasn't even level 10 when the big boys were out PVPing. still asking Cast for permission to grind the hermit in SK bro? It's ok your butt will eventually heal from the wounds pal

I laughed at this a lot, because now you guys are blowing each other

You know on Rallos I could fight:

http://i.imgur.com/mlH95.jpg

and get

http://i.imgur.com/vzIFL.jpg

just saying and you know it.

[Junkman]

Since to this day, theres still a ton of confusion being propagated about what EQ PvP really is, and since 99% of the people on these forums didn't play EQ PvP on live, or weren't old enough to accurately recall it, let me draw you a picture.

EQ PvP is

http://i.imgur.com/0Ybnx.jpg + PvP

That means getting:

http://i.imgur.com/vzIFL.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/HPT6G.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/MmQBq.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/OsvCc.jpg
to kill
http://i.imgur.com/sgNKm.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/Vqmuz.jpg

EQ PvP is NOT

http://i.imgur.com/gg2R6.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/G33HZ.jpg can fight http://i.imgur.com/mlH95.jpg

to get rights to

[Nirgon]

Terrified of item loot

[heartbrand]

Yes, absolutely terrified of play my wizard and dropping bombs on melees from the sky that can't hit me due to how god awful the z-axis is and using trak tooths / hoops / golem wands on everyone while holding my pinky over the gate pot hot key.

[Nirgon]

Like I said. Too classic for these guys. P99 purple is more like it.

[heartbrand]

Again, this is what will happen with item loot:

Nihilum or whoever the Alpha Guild is if this went in with a wipe will roll around in gank squads raping newbs and taking their gear. Said newbs will be corpse camped likely, griefed off quickly and quit the server. Alpha Guild will devastate Beta Guild's raids, loot all their corpses, massive QQ will ensue, corpses will be sat upon, more QQ and more quitting. People will never group outside their guild cuz they will be terrified of being PKed mid group and looted. Everyone will have multiple gate pots / hug zone lines, and the apps to the Alpha Guild will continue to flow in as everyone seeks the protection of being in a zerg to protect their pixels as opposed to being in the underdog guild that's on farm status. PVP will continue to disappear, the end. That is how item loot will play out on a server of this pop. Now, if you had a much higher pop server where one guild couldn't effectively do that, then it's a whole different ball game. Back in the old days the whole min/max every1 haz 100 pots etc. etc., wasn't the same, now it is. Item loot won't work here, get over it.

[Nirgon]

You mention levitate and z-axis and shit in the same sentence as golem wands.

If someone does that, dispel them for a full xp loss. Really hate to share my deep dark pvp secrets with someone, especially someone who can't mention them in the same paragraph and put 2 and 2 together.

I know what happens with item loot, I played on a server with thousands of players that had it.

We logged in for more than just training each other, corpse camping and whatever the fuck else I read in the last few threads.

[heartbrand]

That's cool, maybe you haven't seen the pop here lately. This is a server of mostly min/max chest thumping power gamers who want yellow text to stroke their e-peen. Item loot will kill pvp.

[Nirgon]

Some people who brush their teeth and go to bed at a normal hour like Huggies want a real PvP box.

The heeb grime must be cleansed.

Item loot now, item loot forever.

[Nirgon]

No the pop will -1 when you get a cloak of flames or fungi looted.

That's about it.

[heartbrand]

Ya, because people with end game raid gear are going to be walking around solo getting dropped by those in not the top guild with item loot in place, and will have their best droppable equipables on.

[heartbrand]

Right now, am I willing to sacrifice myself for some PVP if I think I can down a couple of people 1v2 or 1v3? Of course, why not, it's fun. If there's item loot? Lol no, I'll wait till the bat phone is rung and we have two to three times the #'s, and even if you down someone you'll be dead and never have a chance to loot said person. If you think it would play out otherwise here u dum.

[Nirgon]

Or fight in no drop and fix the resist system. Risk powerful gear for an advantage. Risk versus reward, EverQuest, etc.

http://i.imgur.com/UtMde.gif

Plays like some more neckbeard WoW right now without the item loot.

[heartbrand]

Again, more huge advantages to the top guild who will likely be a zerg and running around with no droppable VP Gear / Planar Gear / no droppable sky haste, etc. More casuals / non-top guild players being griefed off as they lose valuable pixels to end game players in full no drop gear who don't care about bind rushing people to get the chance to grief them off by looting them.

Edit: It's just too ez to control the end game in Classic-Kunark because there's not enough raid targets. You can dominate all of the no drop gear and the other side will be left with shit.

[Combobreaker]

I play on Red99 as if it were counterstrike with swords

- Sorry smurfs

[Nirgon]

http://i.minus.com/idQoNUfSsIP8X.gif

Boasts about server classic pvp.

Fears it.

[heartbrand]

I play on Red99 as if it were counterstrike with swords

- Sorry smurfs

Said player was in Plane of Sky for 8 hours last night engaging in PVE and wouldn't come down to engage 24 v 13, an 11 person advantage was not enough for this guy to PVP.

[Nirgon]

Heartbrand I'll let you go back to griefing people off the server pal. Sorry for jerking your chain, I got bored this morning (home sick as a leet dawg). But think about what I'm sayin' here pal.

[Holey]

Said player was in Plane of Sky for 8 hours last night engaging in PVE and wouldn't come down to engage 24 v 13, an 11 person advantage was not enough for this guy to PVP.

confirmed scared:mad:

[heartbrand]

Lol nirgon, you think I give a fuck? Item loot would be great for me, but unlike you I care about the server pop and know it would kill it. Dude, there's people who quit from simply being killed ONCE in raid v raid pvp and being unable to retrieve their corpse till the next day. You think people will handle losing their items? LOL. It would make for some good posts for a few weeks till the pop was below 50 and tons of "omg nihilum doesnt care bout the server" posts would pop up everywhere about how big bad nihilum is looting them left and right and killing server.

[Nirgon]

Oh as far as "no drop" etc etc?

Most of you guys'd be in the same gear. Your plane of fear/hate stuff.

And the "joke" pieces like indo helm and shit would suddenly find value.

Item loot would be terrible for you broseph.

[Rettii]

Again, this is what will happen with item loot:

Nihilum or whoever the Alpha Guild is if this went in with a wipe will roll around in gank squads raping newbs and taking their gear.

This will never happen because Nihilum doesnt PvP, they only raid and occasionally run passed people on their way to a raid.

[heartbrand]

Again, if this was a server with 600+ people, multiple end game guilds, etc., etc., I think item loot could be fun. Unfortunately, with the server pop the way it is, it caters to a two guild end game where at least here only one of those guilds is competent enough to accomplish anything. So while I think item loot COULD be fun, I think it would be disastrous here for these reasons.

[heartbrand]

This will never happen because Nihilum doesnt PvP, they only raid and occasionally run passed people on their way to a raid.

lol ask Azrael how the last week has been for them, wiped 4x in hate, wiped in fear, corpses camped in sky and CR delayed for several hours, forced out of TD, etc., etc. There's plenty of pvp, unfortunately the opposition usually just evacs out pal.

[Nirgon]

I think you'd be fightin with your fungi and cloak of flames and shit in a bag and you don't want item loot here.

Read: bad for YOU

[Combobreaker]

Said player was in Plane of Sky for 8 hours last night engaging in PVE and wouldn't come down to engage 24 v 13, an 11 person advantage was not enough for this guy to PVP.

Checkraise still reppin the condom

When you gunna hop off my dick for good... You got something you wanna try and prove?

[hagard]

A true dominant pvp guild would have clicked up and slaughtered then.
A true blubie guild would wait on island 1.5

[heartbrand]

Oh as far as "no drop" etc etc?

Most of you guys'd be in the same gear. Your plane of fear/hate stuff.

And the "joke" pieces like indo helm and shit would suddenly find value.

Item loot would be terrible for you broseph.

The opposition doesn't have the right class make up for me to be 2 scared bro. They run around 5 shadow knights deep and with 100 druids, 1 rogue, and a couple of level 52 wizards.

While there is SOME truth to items being somewhat equal in pvp (though I'd argue we wouldn't have to worry about switching our gear because people would only engage in PVP when the numbers were overwhelmingly in their favor), in Velious this becomes lol as all gear is no drop and ridiculous.

[SamwiseRed]

Lol nirgon, you think I give a fuck? Item loot would be great for me, but unlike you I care about the server pop and know it would kill it. Dude, there's people who quit from simply being killed ONCE in raid v raid pvp and being unable to retrieve their corpse till the next day. You think people will handle losing their items? LOL. It would make for some good posts for a few weeks till the pop was below 50 and tons of "omg nihilum doesnt care bout the server" posts would pop up everywhere about how big bad nihilum is looting them left and right and killing server.

joined zerg, stripped and deleted multiple characters, deleted guild, has spear headed multiple burn it down campaigns, impersonates GMs, sends RL threats, all around back stabbing flip flopper... cares about server pop hahaha good one.

[heartbrand]

This message is hidden because SamwiseRed is mad as fuck

[Nirgon]

It's gonna be OK Sam.

Faith I have in the Nilbog still.

[SamwiseRed]

HB doesnt ignore me, too obsessed with that I have to say :) smilin hard as hell

funny when someone presents facts to heartbrand his response is they are mad. guess that makes sense if you are a moran.

[heartbrand]

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lgfd4sqCHl1qcexbyo1_500.jpg

[SamwiseRed]

dont think you've ever killed me but keep hoop dreamin

[heartbrand]

http://community.secondlife.com/t5/image/serverpage/image-id/82921i5B9C16D5B3ED455A/image-size/original?v=mpbl-1&px=-1

[Nirgon]

He pegged ya tho.

[heartbrand]

He pegged ya tho.

http://iowabiz.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83452ceb069e20120a70b2b80970b-320wi

[Vile]

Selling leet Plane of Sky guild vs guild tactic, has worked on previous boxes. PM me.

[hagard]

Leet tactics won't transform them from smurfs though

[Nirgon]

You don't want the council of forum lawyers to prove this because it'd take about... 40 seconds

[heartbrand]

You don't want the council of forum lawyers to prove this because it'd take about... 40 seconds

http://static5.businessinsider.com/image/4ac621830561e22c544f8d9e/judge-bribe-law-lawyers-attorney-pay-bought.jpg

[BigSlip]

joined zerg, stripped and deleted multiple characters, deleted guild, has spear headed multiple burn it down campaigns, impersonates GMs, sends RL threats, all around back stabbing flip flopper... cares about server pop hahaha good one.

[heartbrand]

http://reason.com/assets/mc/_external/2012_07/i-am-the-law-now-let-me-eat-yo.jpg

[SamwiseRed]

http://www.the-reel-mccoy.com/movies/2000/images/gladiator_In_Chains.jpg

[Nirgon]

http://reason.com/assets/mc/_external/2012_07/i-am-the-law-now-let-me-eat-yo.jpg

I AM THE LAW

[heartbrand]

+50 faction for nirgon for knowin dat quote

[Rettii]

I AM THE LAW

[Tr0llb0rn]

Most of you guys'd be in the same gear. Your plane of fear/hate stuff.

And the "joke" pieces like indo helm and shit would suddenly find value.

Item loot would be terrible for you broseph.

Indo helm? Try no drop Helm of Rile. Its the non-nihilum who will be getting their tranix crowns looted and quit the next second.

I think you'd be fightin with your fungi and cloak of flames and shit in a bag and you don't want item loot here.

Read: bad for YOU

Fungi and CoF? lawl, try Robe of the Azure Sky and Cloak of Piety.

Read: everyone else will be getting their FBSS looted
Read: bad for THEM and they will quit the next second

Like I said. Too classic for these guys. P99 purple is more like it.


^^^ has not logged in since they nerfed Ice Comet from doing 900+ a hit.

Still waiting:

Let us know when you find that perfect server Nirgon!!!

[Rettii]

Man all that sweet VP gear just to make you more scary against other dragons. Those dragons scurred.

[Nirgon]

+50 faction for nirgon for knowin dat quote

I also know what EQ pvp servers need.

Trollborn also on ignore list, bodied countless times (in full gear.... HINT)

[Salem Orchid]

that's just like your opinion, man

[Nirgon]

I've been wrong once and I blame over edited npc database shenanigans

[heartbrand]

I think many people in the bug forums would beg to differ pal

[Nirgon]

No. And add item loot.

[SamwiseRed]

Nirgon's avatar almost back to normal. cmon bro go back to the OG close up of that dude.