Torpor's Price is Artificially High

[myxomatosii]

edit: this doesn't apply anymore with the server pop increasing and demand going *way* up, now the price applies so. also, i'm a whiny bitch.

Go here (http://ahungry.com/eqauctions/) and search Torpor, at the time of this posting there were 10 people WTS and 3 people WTB. So the supply is good, I've had at least 5 people offer it to me via the trade thread. And I've seen the ratio as high as 15 to 2 (Selling to Buying).

Its easy to find.

So if the demand is low and the supply is high why does the price not come down?

Well okay that is just one example, lets check another source, these forums. If we look here (http://www.project1999.org/forums/search.php?searchid=1522044) we can see how many forum postings related to WTB and WTS of Torpor to get an idea of the balance, at the time of this thread:

On the first page: 4 WTB, 12 WTS
On the second page: 6 WTB, 2 WTS
So at the very worst in these (very brief) examples the supply meets the demand. Basically its not like Bane of Nife, which honestly due to its supply and demand should be 30k while it makes more sense for Torpor to be in the 10k range.

What do you guys think? Why doesn't Torpor's price go DOWN regardless of lower demand? Why doesn't Bane of Nife's price go UP due to its massive demand and null supply?

[Triangle]

In a sense this is true, and although I don't have a lot of knowledge of economics, I think the answer is simple: there is a reasonable expectation that people have for certain items/spells, and if they don't get that price they simply keep the item in bank until they do.

Secondly, the supply/demand thing seems to work only if there is a seller who is always wanting to sell stuff because of a duty to make money for shareholders or for him/herself. Here there is no real need to constantly be making money like there is in real life.

[myxomatosii]

In a sense this is true, and although I don't have a lot of knowledge of economics, I think the answer is simple: there is a reasonable expectation that people have for certain items/spells, and if they don't get that price they simply keep the item in bank until they do.

Secondly, the supply/demand thing seems to work only if there is a seller who is always wanting to sell stuff because of a duty to make money for shareholders or for him/herself. Here there is no real need to constantly be making money like there is in real life.

Unfortunately, a lot of these reasons are when someone sees shaman on a spell, dollar signs flash in front of their eyes. Even a useless common spell like Acumen sells for 500+ when it drops all the time, everywhere. Now I don't know anyone who would pay that, but people just have this expectation that shaman spells are rare when its only true of Howler, Bane, and Pox. The rest are pretty easy to find.

[ArumTP]

The tunnel is full of thieves that depends on wiki for their prices. Often I see the "correct" price of an item be auctioned off, sold, put on sale another time (higher price), sold again (cause its "cheaper" that wiki!!), then put up for sale or maybe just maybe sold at wiki price. It is resellers thinking there is demand for it, driving up prices, even though the only demand is from other resellers.

[phobus]

The tunnel is full of thieves that depends on wiki for their prices. Often I see the "correct" price of an item be auctioned off, sold, put on sale another time (higher price), sold again (cause its "cheaper" that wiki!!), then put up for sale or maybe just maybe sold at wiki price. It is resellers thinking there is demand for it, driving up prices, even though the only demand is from other resellers.

A lot of people are simply clueless about how to use the price tracker on the wiki. Their loss.

[Orruar]

A price only comes into being once a buyer and seller agree and make the exchange. Anything before that is speculation.

And your theory about the number of WTB and WTS offers determining the direction of price assumes that people post WTB and WTS with the same frequency. I think in practice you will see people post their WTS, while those WTB will typically just look through those who are selling.

To put it another way, I've seen a dozen commercials for 99 cent tacos for sale, while not a single commercial of people looking to buy tacos. Does that mean tacos are overpriced?

[AenarieFenninRo]

Just because there's 10,000 cars for sale, doesn't mean that they're going to lower the price to $2 to sell them...

there is an expectation of the value of the spell, not just the quantity available. The same applies to other high level spells.

With a combo of Torpor and Canni 3, a shaman has essentially limitless mana... if you dont believe that, look at the recent shaman BOTB which had rounds that lasted up to an hour in some cases.

[Danth]

Speaking of Torpor, doesn't it get nerfed into near-uselessness during the Velious era?


Price is what the market will bear, and given the number of Shamans I see online, I suspect the market will bear quite a lot. I don't blame the sellers so much as I blame EQ's annoying method of spell drops.

Danth

[Orruar]

I don't recall any torpor nerf. What did they change about it?

[Danth]

There is archived discussion on some old forums from the 2001 era of a -50 mana a tick nerf added onto Torpor. I did not play a Shaman and hence don't know if such a change ever made it to Live, hence asking whether this severe nerf actually happened.

Danth

[Extunarian]

To put it another way, I've seen a dozen commercials for 99 cent tacos for sale, while not a single commercial of people looking to buy tacos. Does that mean tacos are overpriced?

Orruar is a smart man.

Edit: I looked around for awhile today and found absolutely nothing regarding a mana drain, except someone claiming it happened on eqclassic forums in 2009. Maybe they were thinking of the rage line that regens hp but drains mana...?

[Orruar]

Edit: I looked around for awhile today and found absolutely nothing regarding a mana drain, except someone claiming it happened on eqclassic forums in 2009. Maybe they were thinking of the rage line that regens hp but drains mana...?

Probably. I also couldn't find anything about torpor draining mana.

[Danth]

Here's one such archived site that mentions such a change: http://web.archive.org/web/20010725174617/http://eq.castersrealm.com/spells/spell.asp?Id=1219

I don't know if such a change ever got out of testing, or if it was patched then rapidly removed due to complaints, or if it was some sort of datamined info that never actually cropped up in-game.

Danth

[Orruar]

Here's one such archived site that mentions such a change: http://web.archive.org/web/20010725174617/http://eq.castersrealm.com/spells/spell.asp?Id=1219

I don't know if such a change ever got out of testing, or if it was patched then rapidly removed due to complaints, or if it was some sort of datamined info that never actually cropped up in-game.

Danth

That site shows the mana drain is still in effect on 8/11/02. Meanwhile, Lucy entered the spell on 3/7/02, and never shows any removal of any kind of mana drain. So I'm guessing this was something only on test or just a typo.

[mwatt]

You have dug up some interesting statistics and I believe they do probably presage a reduction in price for Torpor - eventually, assuming what you depict remains that way for a while. Supply and demand is king in a free market so one might well expect an adjustment coming down the pike.

There is one thing that might derail said postulated adjustment however and I believe it has already been alluded to above. It is this: If there is no pressure, or low pressure to sell, then sellers, believing the spell to be intrinsically worthy of the 30K price range (and it is worth that by the way IMO*), may decide to hold onto their wares until a motivated buyer with sufficient resources comes along. If long term nobody buys the spell at 30K, then of course worth it or not, the price will come down.

Bottom line, you are talking about a snapshot in time, but the ebb and flow of prices due to economics is a process that occurs over time.

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* Torpor is a game changer.

[oddibemcd]

Hehe, shamans these days wish that torpor was in the 30K range.

[DrKvothe]

Edit: Jesus christ this thread is a year old. I typed 3 fucking paragraphs before I realized it.

[fishingme]

This is my take on it, im not sure how much torpor costs so im just going to be throwing in arbitrary numbers here, but. Say the going price of torpor is 40k, they aren't going to sell/drop the price for much lower if any lower than that because they simply don't need the platinum. When you're high enough level to get torpor you more than likely have plenty of platinum in the bank, or you simply don't need any more platinum because the character(s) you enjoy playing are all ready geared.