High End Zones/Mobs -- Trakanon etc (Assist/Aggro Radius)

[Treats]

Mostly only in outdoor zones as Walls/LoS pretty much prevents this in indoor zones (except for Trak Lair).

Plane of Sky

Everything looks to be pretty classic here. Aggro/assist raidus seems fairly large and correct.

Terrain (hills/windmill etc) blocking Line of Sight aggro/assist radius should be removed.

Plane of Hate

Innorruuk -- Very Small

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGJq77noz-8

At 1:30 in the video the Gnome Enchanter is sitting in front of the raid. Innoruuk strolls up pretty close before he is DT'd.

Maestro of Rancor -- ???

Old Sebilis

Trakanon -- Line of Sight on player anywhere in Lair
Will not see you in the very back around the nook
Paths every 20 minutes
Corpse camps (assuming 20 minutes)
Gates
Sebilite Protector -- Will not aggro Trak if Protector is in the front and Trak is in the very back around the nook
Anywhere else that Protector or the Jugg that is on the same path is in Line of Sight, Trak assists
Tolapumj -- Will not aggro if hugging left when entering Lair

http://www.monkly-business.net/forums/showthread.php?t=8606&highlight=trakanon

Chardok

Korocust -- Line of Sight on player???
King -- Line of Sight on player???
Queen -- Line of Sight on player???

Charasis

Druscilla -- ???

Karnor's Castle

Venril Sathir -- Low range, almost up to table before aggro

Skyfire Mountains

Talendor -- ???

Emerald Jungle

Severilious -- ???

Dreadlands

Gorenaire -- ???

Veeshan's Peak

Silverwing and Hoshkar -- Huge, but from these posts it seems they do not path close enough to aggro in the alcove (or possibly a restricted Line of Sight even though it is an outdoor zone)

Silverwing and Hoshkars are roamers, you usually have to clear these
two to get to the other four (as pulling the other four becomes
somewhat tricky with roaming see invis, quarter of the zone aggro
range dragons).

OK, we noticed this. We were camped in the little alcove above and to the
left of the A on the http://www.eqmaps.com/m2/vpeak2.jpg map. We had been
told that this is a no-aggro spot, but I think we learned a couple things
about this spot: It's only no-aggro if you're sitting WAY back in the
corner; fighting anywhere other than way back in the corner is a bad idea;
and the pulling monk should stay feigned during the battle. We had two
wipeouts caused by the monk standing up and then Silverwing and Hoshkar
rushing in to join the party.
I guess I should ask if this is a safe spot, and if so, how far from the
very back can we be and still not aggro the wanderers. Or maybe this is
just a bad camp spot.

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.games.everquest/browse_thread/thread/68beb8c705e6f91e/123fdb9c0d6c0b37?lnk=gst&q=hoshkar#123fdb9c0d6c0b37

Nexona -- Huge, halfway down hall towards Nexona door (cannot see Racnars)
Druushk -- ???
Xygoz -- ???
Phara Dar -- Huge, just outside door (possibly smaller than Nexona?)

Plane of Fear

Dread -- Good as current
Fright -- Good as current
Terror -- Good as current
Dracoliche -- Good as current
Cazic Thule -- Good as current

Other different types of mob here need ranges adjusted looks like
This is going to be pretty difficult ;/

In Plane of Fear terrain is blocking Line of Sight from mobs.

This should not be the case.

Currently if you zone into Plane of Fear with a FD class you will be free from any aggro as long as the two minute pathing Shiverback is not on the top of the hill and the scarelings that path up there are elsewhere (they take a long time to path). The static Spinechiller spider behind the portal as well as the scareling off to the side WILL NOT aggro.

As is right now it is possible to duo Fearplane with a Cleric and a Monk. I think everyone can pretty much agree this is not classic. Removing terrain (additionally the firewall) from blocking Line of Sight would make this utterly impossible and how it should be.

I would test the mobs above on the EQMac server but sadly I do not have a high level character there. Will need a bit of help from the people that play there now and still frequent the forums here.

[happyhappy]

Do you think Plane of Fear should be duo'd by a Monk and Cleric?

Considering that a careful wizard could solo in there on live, yes I'm certain a monk and a cleric should be able to duo in there.

[Ele]

Are you fucking dense? He is asking people to post evidence in either direction. No where did he post an opinion or a conclusion.

It is incumbent upon the person making the bug report asking for things to be changed to present evidence that it was correct within the time period of the server.

You inferred that he asked people to post in either direction, when there was no such implication or directive. The original post listed what the OP believed the aggro radii and lines of sight aggros should be (which are different what is currently used) without any evidence that these changes would be proper.

[Handull]

Do you have any reason to think Drusella Sathir should have a larger agro range? As someone who has solo'd her, i can say she would be much easier if she agro'd all the way down the hallway leading to her room. As it stands she is challenging to pull single, even if you know the tricks to it, as evidenced by my recent corpse in HS.

[Ambrotos]

You can debate and post links/whatever to prove or disprove a report. Attacking the person posting isn't going to cut it. Don't do it.

[nilbog]

In Plane of Fear terrain is blocking Line of Sight from mobs.

This should not be the case.


Plane of Fear is definitely a zone which needs npcs to aggro regardless of line of sight. I occasionally bump another thread where I'm trying to develop a general rule for zones which need this change.

What about non-dungeon/non-city outdoor zones? For example, the planes are outdoors, but not dungeon flagged. Karnor's castle is outdoors, but is also a dungeon.


For the rest of the bug report/questions, I look forward to seeing the results. Definitely willing to fix raid encounters lacking difficulty.

[Gwence]

Mostly only in outdoor zones as Walls/LoS pretty much prevents this in indoor zones (except for Trak Lair).

Old Sebilis

Trakanon -- Line of Sight on player anywhere in Lair (Not in the very back, paths every 20 minutes)
Sebilite Protector -- Will not aggro Trak if Protector is in the front and Trak is in the very back around the nook
Anywhere else that Protector or the Jugg that is on the same path is in Line of Sight, Trak should assist
Tolapumj -- Will not aggro if hugging left when entering Lair

http://www.monkly-business.net/forums/showthread.php?t=8606&highlight=trakanon

Karnor's Castle

Venril Sathir -- Line of Sight on player???

Veeshan's Peak

Silverwing and Hoshkar -- Huge, but from these posts it seems they do not path close enough to aggro in the alcove (or possibly a restricted Line of Sight even though it is an outdoor zone)





http://groups.google.com/group/alt.games.everquest/browse_thread/thread/68beb8c705e6f91e/123fdb9c0d6c0b37?lnk=gst&q=hoshkar#123fdb9c0d6c0b37

Nexona -- ???
Druushk -- ???
Xygoz -- ???
Phara Dar -- ???

Plane of Fear

Dread -- ???
Fright -- ???
Terror -- ???
Dracoliche -- ???
Cazic Thule -- ???

In Plane of Fear terrain is blocking Line of Sight from mobs.

This should not be the case.

Currently if you zone into Plane of Fear with a FD class you will be free from any aggro as long as the two minute pathing Shiverback is not on the top of the hill and the scarelings that path up there are elsewhere (they take a long time to path). The static Spinechiller spider behind the portal as well as the scareling off to the side WILL NOT aggro.

As is right now it is possible to duo Fearplane with a Cleric and a Monk. I think everyone can pretty much agree this is not classic. Removing terrain (additionally the firewall) from blocking Line of Sight would make this utterly impossible and how it should be.

I would test the mobs above on the EQMac server but sadly I do not have a high level character there. Will need a bit of help from the people that play there now and still frequent the forums here.

I'll comment on what I know here.

Trak - agro radius is massive if you can see the dragon in first person view it will agro you anywhere in lair. Only evidence I have is killing him on AK server. If anyone has reason to believe trak was changed from inception to AK code lock, then so be it. I doubt it was though. He also will gate if pulled out of lair, and if agro'd out of the lair it will take a very long time to reset back to bind. No exact time, but anything less than 15 minutes is wrong, he sits and corpse camps.

-VS won't agro on los, can get almost up to the table before agro.

-VP dragons it's good the zone is now outdoor, some other things that may or may not be in, no idea.
-they all gate (a pain when fighting hosh and sw)
-from what I can tell walls will not stop agro, examples are running past the drop down bridge otw to nexona, halfway down that hall towards the door Nexona will agro before you even get in LoS of the racnar guards. Same with PD.. engaging the 3 drakes outside will agro PD everytime. Best guess would say they all have a sizeable agro radius which anyone that enters gets agro no matter where you are.

fear - depends on mob. Amy's/scarlings/toads like to agro you from far away, while fetids and wisps have to almost engage in order to agro. The golem/draco/CT agro radius on p99 from what I remember and comparing to AK seems pretty legit, however AK does have the revamped draco and ct - tough to use those as a comparison although I doubt they changed there agro mechanics.

[Fazlazen]

You guys should really try to come up with better proof than what is being displayed on Al'kabor. Those zones were changed so many times between Kunark and PoP that any evidence coming from that server should be taken with a grain of salt.

Nexona doesn't gate. You want to fix something about Nexona ? Look at the HT she throws at you 2-3 times a fight for 4k. It should be around 1k and it should only happen once. Losing a tank to Nexona is not classic. As of now, Nexona is the hardest dragon in VP because your tanks will take random 4k HTs throughout the fight.

AoEs in VP: They should all be avoidable. We used to pull everything in VP at the zone in, and we fought all the battles with the healers under the bridge. They'd dodge every single AoE.

Drakes: Drakes should lose aggro with LoS. They should not be following you as soon as they lose LoS. Whether they regain aggro when you come back next to them (without FD) I can't remember, but Drakes should not be chasing you around the zone.

I can't provide proofs for any of this, it's coming from my classic knowledge (which is probably a more classic recollection than what Al'Kabor is).

[Lazortag]

If a mob sees through walls in outdoor zones, does that mean they also path through walls? This is a question mostly for Gwence/anyone else on eqmac.

[Gwence]

You guys should really try to come up with better proof than what is being displayed on Al'kabor. Those zones were changed so many times between Kunark and PoP that any evidence coming from that server should be taken with a grain of salt.

Nexona doesn't gate. You want to fix something about Nexona ? Look at the HT she throws at you 2-3 times a fight for 4k. It should be around 1k and it should only happen once. Losing a tank to Nexona is not classic. As of now, Nexona is the hardest dragon in VP because your tanks will take random 4k HTs throughout the fight.

AoEs in VP: They should all be avoidable. We used to pull everything in VP at the zone in, and we fought all the battles with the healers under the bridge. They'd dodge every single AoE.

Drakes: Drakes should lose aggro with LoS. They should not be following you as soon as they lose LoS. Whether they regain aggro when you come back next to them (without FD) I can't remember, but Drakes should not be chasing you around the zone.

I can't provide proofs for any of this, it's coming from my classic knowledge (which is probably a more classic recollection than what Al'Kabor is).

1-where do you see any listing that zones were changed, AK is original EQ code locked in a time capsule, this has been confirmed on the sony website lol.

2-It does gate, they all gate. But you're right about the HT thing, have not noticed more than 1 HT.

3- completely wrong, you're calling on knowledge from 8+ years or more, I'm using knowledge from 3 days ago.. defintetly can't avoid ae's at all.

4- not sure what you mean concerning drakes

you can change the zone back to in door for all I care and continue pulling all the dragons to the top of the pool room lol - I'm just giving insight from a pure classic server (AK) that alot of people currently play on. You certainly don't have to use it.

[Gwence]

If a mob sees through walls in outdoor zones, does that mean they also path through walls? This is a question mostly for Gwence/anyone else on eqmac.

if you mean will they agro you from behind a wall out of LoS - depends on the zone I think, and how z-axis comes into play.
Highkeep I am kos, and it's an outdoor zone but I havent noticed agro from nobles unless you're los, this could be due to them having small agro radius though
PoHate you have probably 5-10 mobs agro upon port in no matter what, every time. Moving around in that zone is pretty treachorous.

if you mean do they run through the wall? - depends on zone pathing, often times yes, some zones no.

with indoor zones I've found bosses will run into a wall and stick for a few seconds then warp right on top of you

outdoor usually is open enough where they dont get stuck if there's an obstruction they usually are able to magically climb over the top of it.

[Xanthias]

1-where do you see any listing that zones were changed, AK is original EQ code locked in a time capsule, this has been confirmed on the sony website lol.
As I've never played on AK going to ask a simple question, which version of VP are they running over there? The original or the revamped?


2-It does gate, they all gate. But you're right about the HT thing, have not noticed more than 1 HT.
No Nexona doesn't as it is an SK. Remember mobs are supposed to follow the rules of their base class.


3- completely wrong, you're calling on knowledge from 8+ years or more, I'm using knowledge from 3 days ago.. defintetly can't avoid ae's at all.


Again I ask which Version of VP is running over there?

[Treats]

May 14, 2003

Veeshan's Peak - We have changed this zone to make it more appealing, particularly for those playing with one or two groups. We have removed the restriction against using gate in this zone and modified the zone population. Over all, the zone will be better to play in.

July 14, 2004

Veeshan's Peak!

With this revamp we have Updated the level and NPC list for the zone: Please note that this zone is now an elemental level zone! The entry quest to Veeshan's Peak has been changed. The original key quest has not been modified. However, the new entry quest uses the old key and offers an alternate quest to do instead of the original key quest.
Items in the zone are now of elemental planes quality.
Faction now matters: Dragons in Veeshan's Peak will now speak to players if you have the correct faction and can understand them.
New quests and lore: The dragons in Veeshan's Peak will now give players the option to acquire items through questing for them.
The zone is now an exp zone as well: Hunting in the areas before the dragons yields experience and loot.

It's the original.

Here it lists Nexona as a Necromancer:

http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/showthread.php?t=10799

Silverwing -- Enchanter
Hoshkar -- Shaman
Xygoz -- Bard
Nexona -- Necromancer
Phara Dar -- Enchanter
Druushk -- Druid

[Gwence]

AK VP is original, you cannot gate out, have zone out pads at nex and PD, otherwise corpsing out is only way. respawns are super fast as well on trash like 2 min or less.

I'll resign Nexona/Druusk/Xygoz gating for now.. Hosh/SW/PD definitely gate

[Asher]

AK VP is original, you cannot gate out, have zone out pads at nex and PD, otherwise corpsing out is only way. respawns are super fast as well on trash like 2 min or less.

I'll resign Nexona/Druusk/Xygoz gating for now.. Hosh/SW/PD definitely gate

Seru gate clicky works. It is 3 min on spawns iirc.

I do remember drakes losing interest and seeming to be tethered to their spawn locations in VP on AK.

Mobs used to also lose interest in PCs in Kunark and original EQ but on p99 mobs will chase you down from one side of the zone to the other no matter how much distance you put between you. I don't think they will fix that.

Asher

[Xanthias]

May 14, 2003
Here it lists Nexona as a Necromancer:

http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/showthread.php?t=10799



Then Nexona shouldn't HT....

[kenzar]

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/spell.html?spell=5158

This isnt harmtouch, its dragon harmtouch..apparently it is different. Nex might not be a SK but it is def still a dragon.

[Treats]

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/spell.html?spell=5158

This isnt harmtouch, its dragon harmtouch..apparently it is different. Nex might not be a SK but it is def still a dragon.

Dragon Harm Touch isn't listed in the Velious spdat, dunno.

All thats there is:

Dragon Charm
Dragon Roar
Dragon Roar

[Ele]

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/spell.html?spell=5158

This isnt harmtouch, its dragon harmtouch..apparently it is different. Nex might not be a SK but it is def still a dragon.

Lucy indicates "Dragon Harm Touch" was not added until 2002.

http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=5158&source=Test

[kenzar]

http://i45.tinypic.com/9kb7v4.jpg
If you take a look at its patch history, Dragon Harm touch actually wasn't added until '04, but it also says the name was changed from Harm Touch to Dragon Harm Touch in a little over 24hrs. We all know HT existed well before 2004 and 2002. Is it safe to say Nexona did HT prior to 2002/2004 but the spell name was only changed to reflect a differentiation to DHT in 2004? I'm a little torn on this, for a seemingly well documented game, EQ is so not well documented lol.


http://i47.tinypic.com/b8k7sg.jpg
These are comments from 2000 talking about the fact that Nexona does HT. there is some speculation as to how much the Ht should hit for though the general consensus is because Nexona is lvl 65, her HT should hit for 651 similar to a PC HT.

[nilbog]

For the rest of the bug report/questions, I look forward to seeing the results. Definitely willing to fix raid encounters lacking difficulty.

[Metallikus]

Plane of Fear is definitely a zone which needs npcs to aggro regardless of line of sight. I occasionally bump another thread where I'm trying to develop a general rule for zones which need this change.



For the rest of the bug report/questions, I look forward to seeing the results. Definitely willing to fix raid encounters lacking difficulty.

I'm curious to know why Treats and Nilbog think that terrain didn't block line of sight agro in classic on mobs in fear or any other outside zone?

The game mechanics of the terrain should not change. Hills have always blocked line of sight agro. The little houses (fiends, boogeys, fingers) and walls (not double walls) should not block line of sight agro. The stairs where the tormentors are probably shouldnt block, but the giant firewall around the temple for sure blocked line of sight I guess because it is considered a double wall.

edit: if you thought mobs in fear agro'd thru hills on live, it was more likely because something invis had agroed you from further away and the assist agro caused mobs to agro from behind a hill. Lower level pullers also caused larger agro radius. If you were to consider any agro changes, perhaps increasing the agro range for the mobs, but not eliminating solid terrain bloacking line of sight.

[Treats]

Line of Sight aggro and an NPC having Line of Sight to cast or land a spell are basically one in the same. If the NPC cannot see you to aggro it also cannot cast a spell to land on you.

A prime example of this is Western Wastes in Velious. If terrain did block Line of Sight you could easily hide behind several of the extensions of the canyon walls to fight dragons and prevent AE's. This was not the case as the dragons were fought out in the open, you could not hide.

Fear was very difficult to break back in the days of Classic/Kunark/Velious. This is chronicled by the number of horror stories of people losing gear/levels etc. If terrain would have been blocking line of sight a fear CR would have been a joke to recover from. Zone in, harmony shit, and rez. Way too easy.



Some things that I think would help the server in terms of difficulty:

* Trakanon Light of Sight anywhere in Lair

* A bit higher aggro range scaling with NPC level (61+ huge)

* Terrain blocking Line of Sight in Outdoor Zones removed

* VP dragons increased aggro radius (this might allready be the case?)

* Feign Death/Sneak unable to instantly clear aggro if the NPC's back is turned


* Another huge thing would be the addition of NPCs adding players to the hate list.

When this is added you will no longer have people kiting NPCs and creating clusterfucks in zones where they are trying to kill a Raid NPC the fastest. On live this tactic was hardly ever used. The reason was not because the players did not think of it. It was because training shit around other raids was called a Zone disruption.

Every single player that got into the aggro range of an NPC that was being trained around was added to the hate list on every single mob in the train. Someone on that list sits and you were screwed. Someone on that list gets healed, you're screwed because all mobs are going to that healer. Someone happens to get closer to the mobs than the kiter, you're screwed again. This tactic is complete garbage and should be a Zone Disruption when it occurs.

One last thing in reference to Cazic Thule in Plane of Fear to prevent this sort of thing from happening.

* When CT is aggroed deem each player added to his hate list a slight margin of hate higher than initial aggro on a train that is being kited (It could already work this way?)

This would be to prevent kiting the mobs around the zone so they cannot directly run to Cazic.

Example:

Bard kiting everything around while guild prepares to engage
Guild engages CT
Each mob in the kite is instantly given higher hate to the players attacking CT therefore leaving the bard and running to assist him

Note -- This won't really be possible once Fear is revamped. There won't be anyone kiting anything when Cazic has 400k hp and is a beast.

I know there isn't really any proof for much of this.

Taking a look at the Server's relative ease and numerous RNF threads relating to this kind of speaks for itself.

[Metallikus]

your prime example is flawed. everyone remembers being able to maneuver around the corner past Sontalak to get into TOV. Some people probly remember hanging out at the pirate boat before creeping up the hill to jump on that stationary dragon.

If the temple wall or hill didnt block line of sight for agro then none of that would have worked....Also, ducking around hill tops was always good for avoiding agro via line of sight from the roaming dragons.

[Treats]

your prime example is flawed. everyone remembers being able to maneuver around the corner past Sontalak to get into TOV. Some people probly remember hanging out at the pirate boat before creeping up the hill to jump on that stationary dragon.

I'm not sure what you are talking about here.

Sontalak sits right in the middle of the entrance to ToV.

To get into ToV you either had to:

1 -- Train Sontalak out into the valley to run past

2 -- Have a mage at the ToV zone in to CoH

3 -- Harmony Sontalak but I'm not sure if it was possible back then to get in range before aggro

[Metallikus]

I'm not sure what you are talking about here.

Sontalak sits right in the middle of the entrance to ToV.

To get into ToV you either had to:

1 -- Train Sontalak out into the valley to run past

2 -- Have a mage at the ToV zone in to CoH

3 -- Harmony Sontalak but I'm not sure if it was possible back then to get in range before aggro

the reason u could harmony him is because he didnt arbitrarily see thru mountain walls