How do we get players to return to Project1999?

[Ashimar]

This server means alot to me for these reasons.... im a classic gamer only, and this
is a classic online game that i absolutely loved. I couldn't ever get into another online
rpg for the life of me, ever. I've enjoyed only a handful of online games in my day.
Half-life engine (DOD,CS), Infantry (now gone) PS2 had a few online games
but i never had a keyboard and i played Call of Duty 2 online. and classic EQ.
I never have owned a ps3 or xbox 360. currently i just own a SNES, Genesis, PS1
and a Gamegear and Gameboy and those are what i play exclusively. So in my opinion
that makes me alot different from everyone else here.

With the decline of the population as of late, it seems to have an effect on everyone.
Market prices have plummeted, and for me personally i can't ever find a group now.
So im one of the people who never logs in anymore. My reasons aren't because
of many of the others though, such as Diablo 3... its because the guild im in
is currently not active as far as i can tell, no friends are on, no one to group with
duo/trio because im not a solo class.

Advertisements or word of mouth is the only things i can think of... hopefully we can get some ideas on here.

[Alarti0001]

This has been asked and answered 100 times.......
The Answer is Velious

[isoka]

The answer is : share pixels

[Kinosh]

answer is derp.

[fadetree]

^ lol

Don't worry, they'll come back, or we'll get new ones. The best thing to do is spread the word.

[Slave]

The answer is to bring it back to its Classic roots, not this trend toward an increasingly custom server. Remove raid mob variance so more guilds can compete. This current system seems specially tailored for one major guild to exploit. This is the largest fixable reason why the server is losing established players.

Additionally, customer support could use a boost. Faster IP exemptions, faster implementation of problem-solving patches. This is a huge part of gaining and retaining lower-level players. Efficiency comes from the top down, and even clueless P99 noobies sense the lack of direction from Rogean.

In the end, really we have only one chance left. The promised land of Velious must be implemented properly (not quickly), and with the above changes. If it is not, the population will quickly dwindle and perish.

Few like to play on a neglected project where the lead developer is gone and nobody else can take the helm. The stated mission of the server has been diluted and somewhat perverted, and it takes a lead developer paying close attention to realize it and effect positive change.

[webrunner5]

I have a toon in the guild Full Circle. I am not pushing them but they are very active and have groups going on a lot. Not really high end ones mind you.

But I think if you are mid level or lower they may make your day on here.

[Dannermax]

Yes spread the word. Im sorry to hear that you are having a hard time finding someone to group with. The solution could be, to join a guild that was active. You are welcome to speak to one of the officers in my guild. Sherrypie or do a "/who all europa"

Im a classic fanatic too. I aswell dont enjoy playing anything else then good ol' EQ.

[Fountree]

1. Velious Release (new influx of items, players, content will 100% revive server)

2. Patches (it's been 2 months now guys *sadface*)

3. Random CLASSIC repops

4. GM events (can't even remember the last one, probably a year ago now).

5. Faster IP exemptions, petition response time, item reimbursements.

6. XP bonuses

All of these things encourage a happy player base. Many players have literally nothing else left to do on this server at this point. EverQuest doesn't really live up to its name if you've got very little left to accomplish. Even for players who have no desire to raid, it sucks not being able to find groups in HS/Seb or whatever. When I leveled at Kunark release there were groups everywhere, loots were new and sold for sky high, and it was awesome to experience all the old Kunark content again. I def want new players to P99 to have the same awesome experience 50+ that I had back in 2011, but they need ppl to play with.

[Tr0llb0rn]

2. Patches (it's been 2 months now guys *sadface*)




Let Nilbog take posession of the patch process. It would free Rogean up to do the other things he'd like to do and take that worry from him.

[Kinosh]

1. Velious Release (new influx of items, players, content will 100% revive server)

2. Patches (it's been 2 months now guys *sadface*)

3. Random CLASSIC repops

4. GM events (can't even remember the last one, probably a year ago now).

5. Faster IP exemptions, petition response time, item reimbursements.

6. XP bonuses

All of these things encourage a happy player base. Many players have literally nothing else left to do on this server at this point. EverQuest doesn't really live up to its name if you've got very little left to accomplish. Even for players who have no desire to raid, it sucks not being able to find groups in HS/Seb or whatever. When I leveled at Kunark release there were groups everywhere, loots were new and sold for sky high, and it was awesome to experience all the old Kunark content again. I def want new players to P99 to have the same awesome experience 50+ that I had back in 2011, but they need ppl to play with.


Thats Sum of it.

[Urbanzkopf]

Red99 is still surviving off just the 20-40 people that play it. Just sayin everyone is getting worked up over nothing the server is completely playable with the pop of over 100-200+ online, sometimes even 300.. why do people complain so much? Yes we all want velious but don't you want it properly? Just be patient and enjoy the game as it is now. Once velious is out its a slippery slope until everyone leaves and the server dies... what will you do when there is no content promised then? Just chill, be happy.

[lethdar]

Red99 is the reason for blues decline. Notice how blue started going down the gutter once red came up?

[Urbanzkopf]

I just think people need to QQ less on the forums about lack of population and play. We know that velious would make more players return, but then give it a few months till they get bored and they will be gone again. If you are playing a class that doesn't solo well hey presto it's time to make an alt. Play him in your mains downtime and enjoy EQ... if not go play live EQ I hear it's super easy to solo and level up there and a whole ton of content to keep you happy till the day you die ( if you like shitty zones slapped together ).

[Joroz]

velious will help but not as much as people think. huge numbers of people were grieved off the server in the last 5-6 months. i wouldn't expect to see them returning back into this community when options like eqmac, the sleeper, d3 and gw2 are getting hot. constantly recruiting new players is the best bet to keep the population going good. till about lvl 55 most players won't be exposed to raid scene on here and therefore be completely happy till then.

[Alarti0001]

Attendance prior to kunark was really low too and lots were griefed off the server before kunark alot left for the sony prog servers and we still hit 1k pop for kunark. Content is king and we are currently out of it

[sulious]

I dont know we could try to flood facebook- project 1999 fanpage with comments etc to drum up interest and advertise? https://www.facebook.com/#!/EQProject1999

[falkun]

Only the top 1% of the server is "currently out of [content]." The rest of us play with lots of content ahead of us still, even before releasing Velious. If you'd like more content, faster, log onto EQMac/Live and help Nilbog answer his Velious questions. Or you can continue to kill kunark_dragon_9999, like you have been for months.

[Urbanzkopf]

^ lol +1 he speaks truth

[One Tin Soldier]

Velious won't save the server. It'll revive it for a while and then people will leave again and ultimately the server will come down to a relative handfull of people.

I'm one of the people who doesn't play anymore and I know Velious won't make me stay for a long time. It'll be fun again for a while but it can't solve the underlying problem people like me have with EQ.

The problem is: there is no endgame in EQ for people who don't raid. Also, when groups for all the non-raid content thin out beyond a certain point all the rest of the game loses it's fun as well.

So, people like me get up to the point at which we should be raiding but we don't want to because, let's be honest, it isn't worth all the time and trouble. This is just a game after all and I'm just not going to put myself through all that crap I don't enjoy anyway just so I'll have some excuse to keep logging in. So at that point our interest in the game begins to fizzle out.

Ok, now what, start an alt? Oh but look, there aren't enough people to group with and soloing isn't any fun even if you are playing a solo class. And yea, my quitting isn't going to help the population but what else can I do? I'm not going to log in every day just so I can stand around not getting into groups.

I don't mean for this to come across as whining. I'm just pointing out what I see as the major flaws with the server. I could offer suggestions to help alleviate the problems but people would yell at me if I did.

[Alarti0001]

Only the top 1% of the server is "currently out of [content]." The rest of us play with lots of content ahead of us still, even before releasing Velious. If you'd like more content, faster, log onto EQMac/Live and help Nilbog answer his Velious questions. Or you can continue to kill kunark_dragon_9999, like you have been for months.

Is this going to become another " its tmo's fault " thread. You aren't out of content? Why is seb and hs empty? Most of the server won't get thru vp before velious is out just like on live. The difference is velious has tons more content both group and raid.

[Urbanzkopf]

@One Tin Soldier

This isn't an attack or anything to you, I myself am like you in many ways (except I would raid given the opportunity) but that is just your play style and view on the game. Many people like to raid because there's nothin' more fun than taking down a big bad ass dragon or w/e and getting awesome loot from it. As is with many MMO's it's all about end game, although EQ is the only game I have ever found that is also about the journey & experiences getting there.

[Alarti0001]

Velious won't save the server. It'll revive it for a while and then people will leave again and ultimately the server will come down to a relative handfull of people.

I'm one of the people who doesn't play anymore and I know Velious won't make me stay for a long time. It'll be fun again for a while but it can't solve the underlying problem people like me have with EQ.

The problem is: there is no endgame in EQ for people who don't raid. Also, when groups for all the non-raid content thin out beyond a certain point all the rest of the game loses it's fun as well.

So, people like me get up to the point at which we should be raiding but we don't want to because, let's be honest, it isn't worth all the time and trouble. This is just a game after all and I'm just not going to put myself through all that crap I don't enjoy anyway just so I'll have some excuse to keep logging in. So at that point our interest in the game begins to fizzle out.

Ok, now what, start an alt? Oh but look, there aren't enough people to group with and soloing isn't any fun even if you are playing a solo class. And yea, my quitting isn't going to help the population but what else can I do? I'm not going to log in every day just so I can stand around not getting into groups.

I don't mean for this to come across as whining. I'm just pointing out what I see as the major flaws with the server. I could offer suggestions to help alleviate the problems but people would yell at me if I did.

You are describing a strength or weakness of the game, not the server. Instances were designed to solve your problems

[Arclanz]

Restart a new classic server, giving everyone three months notice so word can spread before it opens. When I played on P99 in 2010, I felt it was already "too late" to start on that server. Rarely did I get a good group (and I am good at creating groups/recruiting). Most of the time I saw twinks and folks being power leveled. On the odd chance I found myself at some camp I liked, some high level necro/druid/mage was camping the item for twink/sale/plat/rmt/whoknows.

And fix the mob flee speed, I hear it sucks.

Also, another emu has the idea of offering raid tokens so the end-game doesn't turn into one huge game of kahk-blocking, socking, batphones, and all the bull-sheet that caused millions of players to leave EQ in the first place. PvE is what made EQ great. The vast majority of players want to compete against the game, not against other players. Perhaps each account could get one raid token for each raid mob boss? Just thinking...

[Autotune]

a 30yr old game is having people lose interest? Fail mmo

[falkun]

Is this going to become another " its tmo's fault " thread. You aren't out of content? Why is seb and hs empty? Most of the server won't get thru vp before velious is out just like on live. The difference is velious has tons more content both group and raid.

It is not solely TMO's fault I still have content in Kunark to experience. I play infrequently enough that I'm not L60, I don't have my epic, and I haven't seen VP. That still gives me incentive to log on when I am able to.

Kunark on P99 will last longer on P99 than it did on Live, so the only reason fewer people will see Veeshan's Peak on P99 than on Live is because they don't feel like putting in the effort to get the key (everything from poopsocking Trak to camping the Pained Soul to the easy ground spawns). Only a minimal portion of that is TMO's fault.

I'm not trying to blame TMO for the rest of the server not "completing" Kunark. I am trying to say that those who have "completed" Kunark are able to expedite the process on releasing more "King Content" (read: Velious) by aiding the developer(s) of the content. You are more than capable of becoming part of the solution instead of just complaining about it (making you part of the problem). And Nilbog has done an amazing job at being accessible and providing the community the ability to expedite development. So when you want to complain about Velious' slow release, talk in the mirror and leave it off the forums.

[One Tin Soldier]

@One Tin Soldier

This isn't an attack or anything to you, I myself am like you in many ways (except I would raid given the opportunity) but that is just your play style and view on the game. Many people like to raid because there's nothin' more fun than taking down a big bad ass dragon or w/e and getting awesome loot from it. As is with many MMO's it's all about end game, although EQ is the only game I have ever found that is also about the journey & experiences getting there.

Yes, different people like different things. That's fine. But I bet there are a lot more people like me than you might think. It's just that most of them never post on forums.

Also the raiding in classic EQ is somewhat unique in the amount of time and people required and the level of...ahh..."bullshit" one has to endure.

I understand that some people really love it and that's great for them. But the fact that some people enjoy it doesn't change things for all the people like me who simply don't think it's worth all the time and trouble.

It's just my misfortune that I absolutely love one side of the game---the freewheeling, grouping, having fun with people side of the game. But then I don't enjoy the other side of the game at all, the raiding side.

My love of the fun parts of the game dragged me to this server even though I knew the fun part would sooner or later die out and leave me in this position where all that's left is the part I don't enjoy.

Oh well, I did have a lot of fun for while at least.

[Ambrotos]

Keep the RnF in the right area. Keep on topic and leave out personal attacks.

[webrunner5]

The "End Game" is what killed the original EQ. They kissed the asses of the raid guilds and threw everyone else under the bus. And that is what has happened here. I am not against TMO. The top guild always takes the heat.

The problem with this server now is when they stated Red it took away a 1/3 of the people. And most of them just gave up and quit both servers now. And now Rogean seems to have just went Poof. No patches that are really needed, and the goddamn server crashes 2 to 3 times a day have just killed it for a lot of people, including me.

I see no real future here as far as I am concerned. And even if Velious comes out unless you are really high level there is no zones worth a crap for noobs in it. So I think it won't help in the short term even if it happens soon.

I think the end is near like it or not.

The pet class nerf and the Melee skillup problem has been the straw that has broken the camels back to me. The average person on here does not have time to play 24/7 like they did 13 years ago. So much for "Classic".

[Ambrotos]

As much as you want to hate how raids were made in EQ, most of EQ was centered around non raids. EQ lost more raiders than non raiders over time. EQ was going strong up to the end of SoL, and then many changes were made in Raiding and zones to help allow more people do that type of stuff. What happened between PoP and forward? EQ finally died.

[Lazortag]

The server has probably lost hundreds of players from unnecessary burnout at the high end. Here, people have to invest unreasonable amounts of time to accomplish things that took less time in classic. With epics out, the gap between the top players and the bottom players increases even more because lots of epics require drops from boss mobs that most players will realistically never be able to see in this expansion (Bard, Druid, Ranger, Mage, Necro, Wizard, Warrior, and SK epics are extremely difficult to get if you're not in a top guild). So lots of people probably quit when they realized how much content they were never going to see, that they rightly would have been able to experience in classic without too much effort.

That being said, velious will fix a lot of the above problems, so there's no reason for any "the sky is falling" type posts.

[finalgrunt]

Is this going to become another " its tmo's fault " thread. You aren't out of content? Why is seb and hs empty? Most of the server won't get thru vp before velious is out just like on live. The difference is velious has tons more content both group and raid.

Yes, keep this delusional thinking that TMO has got nothing to do with server population decline. It's not just that, but plays a part for sure.

Remove variance, bring global rotation for a good half of targets, rework the FTE rules and see what happens.

[webrunner5]

As much as you want to hate how raids were made in EQ, most of EQ was centered around non raids. EQ lost more raiders than non raiders over time. EQ was going strong up to the end of SoL, and then many changes were made in Raiding and zones to help allow more people do that type of stuff. What happened between PoP and forward? EQ finally died.

Oh come on. I have been playing this game since 2000. I have raided till my ass fell off. Even the original devs spent an inordinate amount of time dealing with the whinning, crying top guilds. There is a shit pot full of hate on here for TMO. Like it or not.

The average person on here, who will probably never raid, just wants this Melee crap and crash stuff fixed. Most have not got the time or desire to raid. They just want to get on here and be able to group and play for 2 to 3 hours at a time. Ain't happening with 200 peeps on here. Sorry. With 50 peeps in the tunnel trying to sell to nobody.

A noob doesn't stand a chance now with nobody to buy their Bone Stacks, HQ Hides, Silks etc. How they suppose to make any plat?? And with the Melee skillups zonked makes for a long day with little hope in sight.

[Autotune]

Yes, keep this delusional thinking that TMO has got nothing to do with server population decline. It's not just that, but plays a part for sure.

Remove variance, bring global rotation for a good half of targets, rework the FTE rules and see what happens.

Yeah, TMO has been ruining this server for years!


Seriously tho, this is starting to get hilariously sad. Like, is Harrison rubbin off on you guys?

[finalgrunt]

Yeah, TMO has been ruining this server for years!


Seriously tho, this is starting to get hilariously sad. Like, is Harrison rubbin off on you guys?

Years? Server was pretty fine not so long ago. Guess what changed since then?

And I don't know this Harrison guy, so I guess it's an attempt from you to turn something into rnf material. It just gets harder for TMO to hide behind IB's shadow to thin down all the not so pretty things which has been going on since they left.

But yeah, keep driving the good people off the server. As long as the staff will allow it, I guess there is nothing which can be done about it. *shrugs* But we're here discussing the reasons why people stop playing. And these are facts.

[Alarti0001]

It is not solely TMO's fault I still have content in Kunark to experience. I play infrequently enough that I'm not L60, I don't have my epic, and I haven't seen VP. That still gives me incentive to log on when I am able to.

Kunark on P99 will last longer on P99 than it did on Live, so the only reason fewer people will see Veeshan's Peak on P99 than on Live is because they don't feel like putting in the effort to get the key (everything from poopsocking Trak to camping the Pained Soul to the easy ground spawns). Only a minimal portion of that is TMO's fault.

I'm not trying to blame TMO for the rest of the server not "completing" Kunark. I am trying to say that those who have "completed" Kunark are able to expedite the process on releasing more "King Content" (read: Velious) by aiding the developer(s) of the content. You are more than capable of becoming part of the solution instead of just complaining about it (making you part of the problem). And Nilbog has done an amazing job at being accessible and providing the community the ability to expedite development. So when you want to complain about Velious' slow release, talk in the mirror and leave it off the forums.

Yes, keep this delusional thinking that TMO has got nothing to do with server population decline. It's not just that, but plays a part for sure.

Remove variance, bring global rotation for a good half of targets, rework the FTE rules and see what happens.

Keep the RNF in RNF, tmo did take ib off the server so we claim that. But tmo's responsibility for server decline in highly minimal at best.

[Alarti0001]

Years? Server was pretty fine not so long ago. Guess what changed since then?

And I don't know this Harrison guy, so I guess it's an attempt from you to turn something into rnf material. It just gets harder for TMO to hide behind IB's shadow to thin down all the not so pretty things which has been going on since they left.

But yeah, keep driving the good people off the server. As long as the staff will allow it, I guess there is nothing which can be done about it. *shrugs* But we're here discussing the reasons why people stop playing. And these are facts.

What happened since then hm...-velious delayed by what 8 or 9 months at this point?

You can't claim something is a fact just by calling them facts, support them with evidence.

[Autotune]

Years? Server was pretty fine not so long ago. Guess what changed since then?

It just gets harder for TMO to hide behind IB's shadow to thin down all the not so pretty things which has been going on since they left.

But yeah, keep driving the good people off the server. As long as the staff will allow it, I guess there is nothing which can be done about it. *shrugs* But we're here discussing the reasons why people stop playing. And these are facts.

Questions.

1) how many raid targets were people getting before IB left and TMO took over?
2) how is the server different now that TMO is where IB was?
3) how many raid targets did people get after IB left and TMO took over?

I can tell you right now, the average player will see little to no difference between how the server was before or after IB left and TMO took the top spot. In fact, the only reason why the other guilds are complaining is because when TMO took IB's spot, the other guild took TMO's old spot.

Raid targets aren't magically all being blocked now b/c of TMO, they already were blocked for the past year. Not one thing has changed in that aspect of p99.

The server is going through the same motions it did pre-kunark, just with less high end raiding guilds due to merging.

[Fountree]

All i sense here from these last few posters is jealousy of TMO and no real solutions or valid additions to the thread. Isn't it funny how people have this natural need to find a scapegoat for every problem they face? I agree, let's keep the RnF speak to RnF from now on.

[Danth]

I'll add that I'm wholly uninterested in raids--I never have liked that mode of gameplay. However, I don't blame TMO or whatever this month's top guild is. They're just playing a different game than I am for all the difference it makes.

I agree with the prediction of Velious causing a temporary upward spike followed by a gradual decline. I do not see that as a bad thing. This server far exceeded all expectations originally placed on it more than two and a half years ago. If the run-up to and opening of Velious buys it another 18 or 24 months of medium-high population, who can complain? Four, potentially close to five years would be as long as I spent on "real" Everquest back in the day.

My advice to former players who still have interest would be to come back for Velious and enjoy it while you can. If the P1999 staff still has significant interest in the server after that point, then they can start worrying about future prospects.

For my part, the concept of an "Improved Luclin" with fixed content and no horses actually intrigues me. As much of a disaster as it was, Luclin didn't strike me as flawed at the fundamental level.

Danth

[finalgrunt]

Questions.

1) how many raid targets were people getting before IB left and TMO took over?
2) how is the server different now that TMO is where IB was?
3) how many raid targets did people get after IB left and TMO took over?

I can tell you right now, the average player will see little to no difference between how the server was before or after IB left and TMO took the top spot. In fact, the only reason why the other guilds are complaining is because when TMO took IB's spot, the other guild took TMO's old spot.

Raid targets aren't magically all being blocked now b/c of TMO, they already were blocked for the past year. Not one thing has changed in that aspect of p99.

The server is going through the same motions it did pre-kunark, just with less high end raiding guilds due to merging.

1°) Oh, IB has got its responsability too. The "lock it down" bullshit is something I've always fought against.
2°) Even more trains, poopsocking and rule lawyering it seems. If you think casual guilds will want to compete with that.
3°) Way to forget I've been calling for server rotation. Because it was the case on my server. Classic experience, everybody gets to relive memories, server pop goes up and so does the competition. But you don't want that. You want the "easy" way out (a.k.a no competition).

Well as long as you do, server pop will decline, and you'll stay out of the game because it's not fun for you either. Such a fine situation we're in aren't we?

But as long as no rotation will be enforced by the staff, nothing will change. See what happened with Ragefire? Worked pretty well. Why can't it be done for a handful targets? (leave VP as open competition if you want, for all I care)

[fadetree]

Let Nilbog take posession of the patch process. It would free Rogean up to do the other things he'd like to do and take that worry from him.


Makes sense, would read again.

[Autotune]

1°) Oh, IB has got its responsability too. The "lock it down" bullshit is something I've always fought.
2°) Even more trains, poopsocking and rule lawyering it seems. If you think casual guilds will want to compete with that.
3°) Way to forget I've been calling for server rotation. Because it was the case on my server. Classic experience, everybody gets to relive memories, server pop goes and so does the competition. But you don't want that. You want the "easy" way out (a.k.a no competition).

Well as long as you do, server pop will decline, and you'll stay out of the game because it's not fun for you either. Such a fine situation we're in aren't we?

But as long as no rotation will be enforced by the staff, nothing will change. See what happened with Ragefire? Worked pretty well. Why can't it be done for a handful targets? (leave VP as open competition if you want, for all I care)


1) Sorry, didn't see you on the battlefield.
2) They were always there. I seriously doubt any more training is happening than before when I played against IB. If it did, you'd not even be able to log on without dying to one.
3)Server rotation does not equal competition. Me and a few others have already expressed ways to make the raiding better without a rotation. They've all been ignored or forgotten and pushed aside. Also, what makes you think I want the "easy way out" with no "competition"? I have fought more for my place on the server than 99% of p99 thank you very much.

Pretty sure Rogean stated publicly on the boards that a server rotation would never be put in.

ps - you're welcome for the Ragefire agreement. Where most of you bitched and complained, a select few put forth the effort to get it started and made sacrifices you'll never know.

[finalgrunt]

1) Sorry, didn't see you on the battlefield.
2) They were always there. I seriously doubt any more training is happening than before when I played against IB. If it did, you'd not even be able to log on without dying to one.
3)Server rotation does not equal competition. Me and a few others have already expressed ways to make the raiding better without a rotation. They've all been ignored or forgotten and pushed aside. Also, what makes you think I want the "easy way out" with no "competition"? I have fought more for my place on the server than 99% of p99 thank you very much.

Pretty sure Rogean stated publicly on the boards that a server rotation would never be put in.

ps - you're welcome for the Ragefire agreement. Where most of you bitched and complained, a select few put forth the effort to get it started and made sacrifices you'll never know.

1°) That was my way of fighting it heh
2°) Whatever IB did, if you take this as an excuse to do the same ...
3°) Well it's not a contest of who gave most or something. You're actually trying to bring EQ to another level which never occured (at least on many servers, including mine) on Live. And from what I gathered your place is currently out of p99 from. So much for that.

Also I don't know what Rogean said, but I somehow hope he would still be open to suggestions and could change his mind. But yeah, as long as the current rules remain, your way is the p99 way. And, in my opinion, the server pop reflects that.

[Tr0llb0rn]

Content is King, for both the servers.

While velious is not done yet and so its understandable the blue server is stuck, there is no excuse why the red server has been stuck in classic for 8 months now zzzz.

This again points to a issue that gets brought up time and again from everyone from the casual player to devs themselves: Only Rogean can patch the live servers, and there could be a changelog 3 pages long waiting and ready to go, but that does not mean a thing if it does not get patched.

[Galelor]

I'd be able to spend more time playing if I was allowed to box a melee with my shaman. Soloing is boring as shit, and it is really really hard to find groups... I love the feel of playing on this server because it is very close to true EQ, but there are never enough people on line. Playing 1 char gets boring when anything you want to do requires more than one player and no one is on line... I boxed a shaman with my pally twink for 6+ years on live (even into the years when finding a group was impossible and there were not hired hands...)

[falkun]

Stop drinking the "TMO's fault" kool-aid. TMO has already admitted their place in driving off a solid chunk of high-end players. Agreement reached, move along.

The valid points people are bringing to the table about the slip of population are:
1) summer slum
2) server instability
3) melee weapon skill "bug"
4) People are getting bored of Kunark
5) The snowballing slow exodus of players

Now, I don't think these issues will be fixed purely via "King Content".

1) The summer slum is something we're going to have to get used to until next fall/winter.
2) I doubt there is much the normal P99 player can do for the server instability other than report it.
3) The melee weapon skill "bug" requires statistical documentation and evidence digging to refute.
4) Velious will help here, but honestly people just need the drive to want to "complete" Kunark. Its honestly nice that TMO didn't contest Trak for BDA yesterday, and I know on the last Gore attempt BDA had, it was nice of TMO to allow BDA to regroup after Gore fell through the world. I'm not saying I like you guys, but on a few occasions, you guys have proven you can play with honor instead of training.
5) This will always happen in any game. WoW made cross-realm instances, we don't have that luxury. I'm open to ideas.

[Alarti0001]

1°) That was my way of fighting it heh
2°) Whatever IB did, if you take this as an excuse to do the same ...
3°) Well it's not a contest of who gave most or something. You're actually trying to bring EQ to another level which never occured (at least on many servers, including mine) on Live. And from what I gathered your place is currently out of p99 from. So much for that.

Also I don't know what Rogean said, but I somehow hope he would still be open to suggestions and could change his mind. But yeah, as long as the current rules remain, your way is the p99 way. And, in my opinion, the server pop reflects that.

2. we let other guilds have chances on mobs, and we started the endangered dragon list !

[Armolad]

They say that you can never go home again and I've found that to be true as far as EQ is concerned. It is especially true that it is hard to compete with memories of the past.

In this case I remember the early days of EQ. The crowds at West Freeport, multiple groups working, and sometimes fighting, together at the orc camps in the commonlands. Always being able to find a necro passing through that could use a stack of bones. I remember taking forever to get my first wizard to level 16 to get the mystical spell of invisibility. And then getting killed shortly after only to be knocked back to level 15 for a day. Having a full time job and family tends to make one a casual player. If it's all about the high end content then things are fine the way that they are, but if it's about growth, then there needs to be more activity at each step of the way rather than just at the top.

Imho, this would be a good start to get another influx of players.
Restart a new classic server, giving everyone three months notice so word can spread before it opens.

[Supaskillz]

The key to a stable population is not to have another 200 players who are raid ready, the key is an steady influx of new players keeping the 1-59 busy. During this era of kunark very few of the players percentage wise killed trakanon or Venril Sathir much less raided VP.

Frustration with the end game has led some people to leave this server. No doubt live eq had the same issue with some people getting sick of one guild getting everything or growing bored of seb or hs every night. If we want a vibrant classic server we need players in all level ranges. Bringing back a bunch of lvl 60s is not really what this server needs. I would like to see more new players.

[Lazortag]

The key to a stable population is not to have another 200 players who are raid ready, the key is an steady influx of new players keeping the 1-59 busy. During this era of kunark very few of the players percentage wise killed trakanon or Venril Sathir much less raided VP.

Frustration with the end game has led some people to leave this server. No doubt live eq had the same issue with some people getting sick of one guild getting everything or growing bored of seb or hs every night. If we want a vibrant classic server we need players in all level ranges. Bringing back a bunch of lvl 60s is not really what this server needs. I would like to see more new players.

Level 60's will have way more time to play on their low level alts if they don't have to spend ungodly amounts of hours tracking mobs.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

They say that you can never go home again and I've found that to be true as far as EQ is concerned. It is especially true that it is hard to compete with memories of the past.

In this case I remember the early days of EQ. The crowds at West Freeport, multiple groups working, and sometimes fighting, together at the orc camps in the commonlands. Always being able to find a necro passing through that could use a stack of bones. I remember taking forever to get my first wizard to level 16 to get the mystical spell of invisibility. And then getting killed shortly after only to be knocked back to level 15 for a day. Having a full time job and family tends to make one a casual player. If it's all about the high end content then things are fine the way that they are, but if it's about growth, then there needs to be more activity at each step of the way rather than just at the top.

Imho, this would be a good start to get another influx of players.



Can't disagree. Once pets / skillcaps and whatnot are worked out why not? It'd be neat to see P99 with the fixes in from the beginning, although, some would be unhappy about losing their hard earned characters.

[Atmas]

I hurt to burst the bubble on all the top guild hate but a lot of people need to realize the concept of this server is almost inherintely tied to lower population.

A lot of us are fanatical EQ lovers but many people won't spend years playing content they have before and for those that do they won't play it indefinitely. Even if every issue someone mentioned in this thread was addressed with all parties being satisfied you have to understand EQ's day has come and gone.

Velious will defintely be the biggest help with "new" content. No knock on the Devs because it is awesome they do this for us, but realize Kunark content which people had no clue about when it had launched has been end game much longer than it was on live.

[fadetree]

To reiterate :

Spread the news. Post on old EQ boards. Tweet it. Facebook it. Post on live eq boards and progression server boards. Tell your friends. Tell Granma, she might surprise you. Get drunk and tell people about it in long obnoxious conversations. Yell it when you have sex. Draw it on the sidewalk. Shave it into your bodily hair. Call Geraldo Rivera, god knows he needs something to talk about. Skywrite it. Whizz it in the snow. Explain it to puzzled foreigners who are just trying to find the subway. Dress up like a halfling and ride the butt luge down the PCH on a sunny day.

Yknow...get the word out.

[One Tin Soldier]

To reiterate :

Spread the news. Post on old EQ boards. Tweet it. Facebook it. Post on live eq boards and progression server boards. Tell your friends. Tell Granma, she might surprise you. Get drunk and tell people about it in long obnoxious conversations. Yell it when you have sex. Draw it on the sidewalk. Shave it into your bodily hair. Call Geraldo Rivera, god knows he needs something to talk about. Skywrite it. Whizz it in the snow. Explain it to puzzled foreigners who are just trying to find the subway. Dress up like a halfling and ride the butt luge down the PCH on a sunny day.

Yknow...get the word out.

Even if we all did our very best to spread the word it wouldn't work. Not at this point. What you would get is new people trickling in a few at a time. The new guys would log in, look around at the big empty spaces, play a few days at the most, then log out forever and never come back.

The only way it could work is to have a time when a whole horde of people all start new characters at the same time. Spread the word about that, have people lined up waiting for the doors to open (metaphorically speaking), then suddenly let them all in at the same time. THEN it could work.

How do you do that? I know people have suggested a server reset or a opening a new blue server and I suppose those would work but I'm sure we can all see the problems with both of those ideas.

The only thing I can think of which avoids those rather obvious problems but creates the same effect would be something I suggested before and nobody even really was willing to discuss it. Have a remort month.

Announce a certain period of time during which characters can be dropped to level 1 in exchange for some kind of reward. Like, say, the month of august. Then lock any newly created characters from progressing beyond level 1 untill the launch of the remort month.

Ok, build it up, spread the word. This august everyone who wants to remort can do it! Get new people lined up and waiting as well. Then do it.

BAM, on the 1st of August we have a whole crowd of level 1 characters all going up through the levels again at the same time.

[fadetree]

Even if we all did our very best to spread the word it wouldn't work.


Contempt prior to investigation makes me sad.

[One Tin Soldier]

Dang, didn't realize you were omniscient. Sorry.

No problem, it's a common mistake.

[myxomatosii]

This has been asked and answered 100 times.......
The Answer is Velious

Obvious temporary solution though.

[Tr0llb0rn]

Obvious temporary solution though.

of course it is, thats why EQ then released SoL, then PoP, then , well u get it.

[Autotune]

Obvious temporary solution though.

that's what Kunark was too.

[Quizy]

Right, the vision of the server was to go vanilla to velious.. after velious is out for a year or so i'm sure the GM/Server staff will make a decision together about the fate of this box at that time...

by playing here we are putting our faith in them, I still have the faith and enjoy playing here so im going to continue to believe in the GM's and server staff.

Enjoy!

[hdawg06]

Patching the server so people can actually creating functioning melee characters would help...

[Asedo]

I think the best way to bring back server population is get rid of most the drama. I think that neither rotation or raid tokens. If rotation go something like if you can clear PoS you get Inny, CT, Trak, and VS. If you have 40+ VP Keys and can kill Gore you get VP rotation. All the other dragons and what not are FTE. If you up on rotation mob you have 4 to 6 hours to kill then become FTE. Which this means you would have to get a kill on Gore with FTE. I think the rotation would be best. If not that go tokens by giving out 3 raid tokens a week. Where a raid guild get 3 tokens to turn in to get a raid mob to spawn. Either way would kill the drama and people would get the pixels they want while playing casual. Cause people quit do to can never compete for end game targets and get sick of hearing all the drama that comes along with end game targets.

P.S. Velious will help bring back some more people also.

[porigromus]

I think the best way to bring back server population is get rid of most the drama. I think that neither rotation or raid tokens. If rotation go something like if you can clear PoS you get Inny, CT, Trak, and VS. If you have 40+ VP Keys and can kill Gore you get VP rotation. All the other dragons and what not are FTE. If you up on rotation mob you have 4 to 6 hours to kill then become FTE. Which this means you would have to get a kill on Gore with FTE. I think the rotation would be best. If not that go tokens by giving out 3 raid tokens a week. Where a raid guild get 3 tokens to turn in to get a raid mob to spawn. Either way would kill the drama and people would get the pixels they want while playing casual. Cause people quit do to can never compete for end game targets and get sick of hearing all the drama that comes along with end game targets.

P.S. Velious will help bring back some more people also.

I like the idea of tokens but I prefer instead of handing them out like tickets to a loot pinata .. people either get them from random drops of monsters of appropiate level or quest built to obtain them.

[wasp23]

i have a small penis

[fishingme]

Considering this server is such a low pop server (anything under 1k) that high end guilds should have a max number of players. as is server pop from what I've seen has been around 240-380 max. With one guild nearly controlling end game content and not everyone wanting to join this one guild it should be split up. I hate to say it but with a server that has such a limp population no guild should have half of the server pop in it, not a third, nor a quarter.

[Knightmare]

I'm also one of those who played a lot and now have almost completely stopped playing.

The biggest reason is simple - competition. There's such a multitude of games out, with better graphics, tougher fights, more depth etc that it's simply difficult to continue to accept the shortcomings of a decades old game - simple things like maps, target marking and such, you know, fundamental improvements like that. Improvements that even EQ made in later xpacs, some of which could be turned on and wouldn't kill the classic experience any more than any of the other non-classic changes currently on P99 (which are claimed as being for justifiable reasons).

I loooved Classic, Kunark-era EQ above any other game from so many perspectives. But when there are games like Skyrim, Rift and Fallout, and GW2 and XCOM on the way... what's my motivation except nostalgia, and how long does nostalgia really last anyway? My nostalgia has been eroded by the realization that other games have made improvements, improvements that I have come to accept as necessary - and no XP bonus or Velious is going to change that, sadly.

The second biggest reason is simply the iron fist with which the forums (and some parts of the game) are run. Even in this very thread there's a forum-Nazi-moderator fussing because there's a flame in here (A flame!?! Oh the horror, the horror! Oh the ignominy of it all!) sheesh lighten the hell up. I once made a post, in a whole two places about why Breeze hadn't been implemented and got banned for it - I mean really. In what other games is there such strictness on the forums? Then to patch in things that were known to be bugs in classic (ie: warrior threat etc) is just silly - that doesn't add to the classic feel, it annoys people.

It's said the game is free but that's not true, it costs us the most precious commodity of all - our time. If the time we're having isn't fun, we won't stay. Simple as that. 15$ a month for the little bonuses other games give, for the freedom on the forums (that it's moderators enjoy in real life by the way), it's worth every penny.

[Kevlar]

The second biggest reason is simply the iron fist with which the forums (and some parts of the game) are run. Even in this very thread there's a forum-Nazi-moderator fussing because there's a flame in here (A flame!?! Oh the horror, the horror! Oh the ignominy of it all!) sheesh lighten the hell up. I once made a post, in a whole two places about why Breeze hadn't been implemented and got banned for it - I mean really. In what other games is there such strictness on the forums? Then to patch in things that were known to be bugs in classic (ie: warrior threat etc) is just silly - that doesn't add to the classic feel, it annoys people.


Yeah this forum sure has done a 180. I'm used to logging in to tranny porn, now you can't even say the word fart without threat of a perma-ban.

[webrunner5]

All you people on here defending TMO saying they are not the problem I think are partialy wrong. The Devs only have so much time to devote to this game and this sorry ass state of the top guilds takes a lot more of their time that could be spent doing more "Normal" things for this server. It is the main reason Uthgaard left. Top 25 people pissing and moaning about stupid shit, and getting away with murder. And the other 1000 at the time got no attention.

I know raiding is the top goal for a few people on here. I get it. But these guys, the Devs, have a real life and if I was them I would just pull the damn plug, go get drunk, and be happy.

[Grimmly Fireforge]

The weapon-skill bug in-game makes it extremely frustrating for new players to level or ever have the desire to log in. Getting a weapon skill-up is like striking the lotto at the low end. It seems to get normal/faster at the mid-high range, but getting that 2HB, 1HB, 2HS skills 30-40 points under what it's supposed to be despite the fact that it's the only weapon you use makes you want to unplug.

Sadly, this issue was quickly fixed by Kanras after I reported it in the Bug forum but Rogean is taking his sweet time with patching it in-game. There hasn't been a patch in 2 months now.

I am sure dozens of other players quit for this same reason as me.

[toddfx]

I think a few people hit the nail on the head here when they said the end-game cluster is what demotivated many people from continuing. However it is not the staff or game mechanic's fault, it is the player's fault. I was/am always so astounded how childish the top 1% acts around here.

Unfortunately, it is those type of people who ruined the experience for everybody. In a free environment like this there is only so much policing you can do, and I give the staff props for doing as much as they have done.

I believe the other big factor is the loss of critical staff. Again, that could be attributed to the foul-mouth people who are just here to rock the boat. I believe the RnF forum has always been a disease to the forums, and when that filth began to spill out into other areas of the game, that is the cue I took to leave.

To bring people back to P99, I think it needs an image makeover. We need to delete the RnF forum, ban it's top contributors, and be much more strict about keeping the boards clean and friendly. If it is the brats who ruined the server, then we should start by being even more intolerant to this kind of behavior (this forum is, after-all, the gateway to the game). It's obvious many people, and staff, have left due to the drama and BS caused by ignorant people.

I am a little stumped on the end-game mechanics issues, as I have only ever really seen it from the outside looking in. However going back to my original point, if the right players are playing with the right attitudes, then the drama issues should just take care of its self. Of course I know we are talking about the internet, but I guess we can keep dreaming.

[nilbog]

Regarding the end game pve raiding scene:

I have a pending proposal for all management and staff to review. If all goes well, you will have news about it soon. Ultimately I would like to have a raid scene in which competition still exists, but that competition isn't solely based on time spent waiting.

[Benjin]

I always enjoy reading about how people would implement Social Utopias if they were the ones in charge.

Our president has been explaining this to all us rubes for three years and is having major success. You guys should totally ask him for advice. Its easy really.

[falkun]

I fix raid scene, hear me roar!

Can't wait!

[Asher]

Regarding the end game pve raiding scene:

I have a pending proposal for all management and staff to review. If all goes well, you will have news about it soon. Ultimately I would like to have a raid scene in which competition still exists, but that competition isn't solely based on time spent waiting.

This is great news! :)

[Valiant]

The weapon-skill bug in-game makes it extremely frustrating for new players to level or ever have the desire to log in. Getting a weapon skill-up is like striking the lotto at the low end. It seems to get normal/faster at the mid-high range, but getting that 2HB, 1HB, 2HS skills 30-40 points under what it's supposed to be despite the fact that it's the only weapon you use makes you want to unplug.

Sadly, this issue was quickly fixed by Kanras after I reported it in the Bug forum but Rogean is taking his sweet time with patching it in-game. There hasn't been a patch in 2 months now.

I am sure dozens of other players quit for this same reason as me.

THIS!

[Bill Tetley]

Can't progress new melee characters on the server... apply the patch to help this! pleasenthankyou

[Alarti0001]

I think a few people hit the nail on the head here when they said the end-game cluster is what demotivated many people from continuing. However it is not the staff or game mechanic's fault, it is the player's fault. I was/am always so astounded how childish the top 1% acts around here.

Unfortunately, it is those type of people who ruined the experience for everybody. In a free environment like this there is only so much policing you can do, and I give the staff props for doing as much as they have done.

I believe the other big factor is the loss of critical staff. Again, that could be attributed to the foul-mouth people who are just here to rock the boat. I believe the RnF forum has always been a disease to the forums, and when that filth began to spill out into other areas of the game, that is the cue I took to leave.

To bring people back to P99, I think it needs an image makeover. We need to delete the RnF forum, ban it's top contributors, and be much more strict about keeping the boards clean and friendly. If it is the brats who ruined the server, then we should start by being even more intolerant to this kind of behavior (this forum is, after-all, the gateway to the game). It's obvious many people, and staff, have left due to the drama and BS caused by ignorant people.


I am a little stumped on the end-game mechanics issues, as I have only ever really seen it from the outside looking in. However going back to my original point, if the right players are playing with the right attitudes, then the drama issues should just take care of its self. Of course I know we are talking about the internet, but I guess we can keep dreaming.

If the server pop is 300 on average and tmo has roughly 70 to 80 active players. That's the top 25% just saying. Even if there was 1k players and tmo had some members come back...aka velious we would be the top 10% this isn't economic disparity in the us where the 99% vs the 1% applies, even if its a catchy phrase

[Kevlar]

Allow two boxing. You'll double the server population instantly.

[finalgrunt]

Regarding the end game pve raiding scene:

I have a pending proposal for all management and staff to review. If all goes well, you will have news about it soon. Ultimately I would like to have a raid scene in which competition still exists, but that competition isn't solely based on time spent waiting.

Greats news! :)

[Ele]

Considering this server is such a low pop server (anything under 1k) that high end guilds should have a max number of players. as is server pop from what I've seen has been around 240-380 max. With one guild nearly controlling end game content and not everyone wanting to join this one guild it should be split up. I hate to say it but with a server that has such a limp population no guild should have half of the server pop in it, not a third, nor a quarter.

A guild tag is little more than convenience when raiding.

Limiting the number of tags per guild would only cause alternate guilds of the same players to form up.

[Arclanz]

Regarding the end game pve raiding scene:

I have a pending proposal for all management and staff to review. If all goes well, you will have news about it soon. Ultimately I would like to have a raid scene in which competition still exists, but that competition isn't solely based on time spent waiting.

Lovely to hear, although I disagree that the raid scene should have competition. EQ grew to market dominance rapidly because of PvE, not PvP (and competing versus other players for content = PvP, even if you aren't killing them).

If players have the force to do the content, they shouldn't have to wait; but they also shouldn't get to do the same raid content over and over and over again.

[Ele]

Lovely to hear, although I disagree that the raid scene should have competition. EQ grew to market dominance rapidly because of PvE, not PvP (and competing versus other players for content = PvP, even if you aren't killing them).

If players have the force to do the content, they shouldn't have to wait; but they also shouldn't get to do the same raid content over and over and over again.

So forced rotation?

[tekniq]

it's summer time...some people actually like to see the sun, ya know?

[Benjin]

I disagree that the raid scene should have competition. EQ grew to market dominance rapidly because of PvE, not PvP (and competing versus other players for content = PvP, even if you aren't killing them).



You think EQ grew because there was shit to kill and not because there was competition to kill the shit? And that competition to kill the shit is PvP?

There is so much wrong with every part of your logic that I don't know where to begin.

[Stealin Dragons]

Regarding the end game pve raiding scene:

I have a pending proposal for all management and staff to review. If all goes well, you will have news about it soon. Ultimately I would like to have a raid scene in which competition still exists, but that competition isn't solely based on time spent waiting.

Curious.

[Ambrotos]

Seems more people are playing today early day time than at peek times during night this past week,and the forums are booming with less trolling. I think it goes hand in hand.

[Artah]

Seems more people are playing today early day time than at peek times during night this past week,and the forums are booming with less trolling. I think it goes hand in hand.

Might be a temporary surge, hope not though.

[Labyrrinth]

Seems more people are playing today early day time than at peek times during night this past week,and the forums are booming with less trolling. I think it goes hand in hand.

One day's worth of data or "observance" is not noteworthy

[Slave]

Seems more people are playing today early day time than at peek times during night this past week,and the forums are booming with less trolling. I think it goes hand in hand.

I have noticed the population as well.

[touchtonedialing]

Seems more people are playing today early day time than at peek times during night this past week,and the forums are booming with less trolling. I think it goes hand in hand.

There is definitely a positive energy around. TMO being banned has let the good side of the server come out.

Hopefully it will still be there in a few weeks when they allowed to return.

[Labyrrinth]

There is definitely a positive energy around. TMO being banned has let the good side of the server come out.

Hopefully it will still be there in a few weeks when they allowed to return.

Harrison, is that you?

[Alarti0001]

Seems more people are playing today early day time than at peek times during night this past week,and the forums are booming with less trolling. I think it goes hand in hand.


More TMO are logging in to just chat then logging in only to raid.
I also wouldnt say there is less troling....just more banning.

Here is to help you with statistics

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_distribution

[Tasslehofp99]

This has been asked and answered 100 times.......
The Answer is Velious

The answer is get TMO off p99, you'll have alot more folks come back to the server. Its just plain boring here once you hit 60, unless you give in to joining TMO for the phat pixels. But TMO regularly kills every target with two times the required force so not sure how much fun that would be.

[BlazeKING]

I'm coming back to play this weekend, hope to see you all in there. Would be cool if there were more low level players to group with but o well. The only thing I like about the other mmo's is the higher server population. I'm sick of their hand holding easy street bs. I wish people who havent played eq could come on in but the other mmo's have spoiled people and the babies wouldnt take too kindly to corpse runs. exp loss, trains, no tutorial or in game maps, having to have skill etc etc.

[Alarti0001]

The answer is get TMO off p99, you'll have alot more folks come back to the server. Its just plain boring here once you hit 60, unless you give in to joining TMO for the phat pixels. But TMO regularly kills every target with two times the required force so not sure how much fun that would be.

We find fun with the people we play with... sorry that you don't =)

[Xxia]

I wish people who havent played eq could come on in but the other mmo's have spoiled people and the babies wouldnt take too kindly to corpse runs. exp loss, trains, no tutorial or in game maps, having to have skill etc etc.

I don't think EverQuest's complete lack of any decent features at release was ever the reason any of us played it... it was simply the only decent choice and we got hooked. The way EQers talk about the game is like listening to your grandpa talk about walking uphill to school both ways and saying they enjoyed it. LoL

Since we all already know the game so well, it's much easier and much more enjoyable. But if I was just starting the game today - I'd probably be gone tomorrow.

[Danyelle]

I don't think EverQuest's complete lack of any decent features at release was ever the reason any of us played it... it was simply the only decent choice and we got hooked. The way EQers talk about the game is like listening to your grandpa talk about walking uphill to school both ways and saying they enjoyed it. LoL

Since we all already know the game so well, it's much easier and much more enjoyable. But if I was just starting the game today - I'd probably be gone tomorrow.

[Kevlar]

The answer is get TMO off p99, you'll have alot more folks come back to the server. Its just plain boring here once you hit 60, unless you give in to joining TMO for the phat pixels. But TMO regularly kills every target with two times the required force so not sure how much fun that would be.

If not TMO then another zerg guild will take over. This server doesn't have a high enough population nor enough viable raid targets to support anything more. Maybe the devs should just delete the guild function on this server and autojoin all players to "zerg_guild_01".

[Tarathiel]

Seems more people are playing today early day time than at peek times during night this past week,and the forums are booming with less trolling. I think it goes hand in hand.

and...

Regarding the end game pve raiding scene:

I have a pending proposal for all management and staff to review. If all goes well, you will have news about it soon. Ultimately I would like to have a raid scene in which competition still exists, but that competition isn't solely based on time spent waiting.

/thread

[kwentzell]

Gee, maybe half of the population has left because the server staff blatantly banned/suspended guilds with no explanation or justification. The staff makes cookie cutter rules that they think will apply to every situation in every zone, but this just isn't the case. Without the GMs raiding they have NO CLUE what guilds go through and why they do what they do. Yet they get to make all the rules and decisions without talking to anyone involved. Go ahead guys, let's make some more rules so you can suspend guilds blind with NO EXPLANATION so casuals can rule the server. WoW caters to casuals, and look at them; billionaires. I personally quit WoW for p99, but the server staff just brings back the same one sided bias and makes me sick.

Grats on killing your own server.
Grats to the casuals for actually being listened to.
Grats to Rogean and his adsense income while contributing nothing in the changelogs.

Keep on killing the server.

As for the rest of the devs; I love you guys, you're the ones giving this dying project a chance. So thank you.

[Xxia]

Could someone explain what the deal is with this guild and all the people that got banned? I'm a new player, but have seen a lot of posts eluding to this and am wondering what it's all about and what kind of server I'm sinking my time in to.

[A_Moderator01]

Gee, maybe half of the population has left because the server staff blatantly banned/suspended guilds with no explanation or justification. The staff makes cookie cutter rules that they think will apply to every situation in every zone, but this just isn't the case. Without the GMs raiding they have NO CLUE what guilds go through and why they do what they do. Yet they get to make all the rules and decisions without talking to anyone involved. Go ahead guys, let's make some more rules so you can suspend guilds blind with NO EXPLANATION so casuals can rule the server. WoW caters to casuals, and look at them; billionaires. I personally quit WoW for p99, but the server staff just brings back the same one sided bias and makes me sick.

Grats on killing your own server.
Grats to the casuals for actually being listened to.
Grats to Rogean and his adsense income while contributing nothing in the changelogs.

Keep on killing the server.

As for the rest of the devs; I love you guys, you're the ones giving this dying project a chance. So thank you.

Hi kwentzell,

While your rage post couldn't be further from the truth in almost every aspect, it is still a violation of the forum rules. I'm going to go ahead and issue you a forum disciplinary for multiple rule violations.

Please remember to stay civil in non-rants forums, and to always treat the staff with respect for running this server.

Thanks!

[Benjin]

Hi kwentzell,

While your rage post couldn't be further from the truth in almost every aspect, it is still a violation of the forum rules. I'm going to go ahead and issue you a forum disciplinary for multiple rule violations.

Please remember to stay civil in non-rants forums, and to always treat the staff with respect for running this server.

Thanks!

It's the best when people ban saying your points couldn't be further from the truth but don't support it at all!

[India]

Hi kwentzell,

While your rage post couldn't be further from the truth in almost every aspect, it is still a violation of the forum rules. I'm going to go ahead and issue you a forum disciplinary for multiple rule violations.

Please remember to stay civil in non-rants forums, and to always treat the staff with respect for running this server.

Thanks!

Oh look....:rolleyes:

[Harmonium]

Play your mid level alts more, huge population hole 30-50 on this server xD

[India]

Unfortunately there will always be a huge population hole at those levels and lower... the server is old, content is old, and the timeline to support specific updates is way behind schedule

[pojab]

willing to play p99 if someone MQs jboots for my lvl 1 character pst.

[Nirgon]

Yeah and you better be watching your filthy troll mouth in the rants section as well. You son of a motherless gnoll.

[DarkwingDuck]

I have a toon in the guild Full Circle. I am not pushing them but they are very active and have groups going on a lot. Not really high end ones mind you.

But I think if you are mid level or lower they may make your day on here.

This guild is awesome and my friends and I are glad to be a part of it, anywhere between 12-45, this is the guild to be in. Always groups , ports, conversation, vent, help, etc.

And I group and or Rez when I can to help.
I'm not an officer or "pushing " this guild either .. But on this dwindling server, this guild is Always active with MANY players . See you online :)

-Coadiclese , you're friendly paladin

[Quizy]

Nilbog, can you elaborate on the proposed raid rules so a general consensus can be received back from the playerbase affected ?

Thanks in advance.

[India]

Projet 1999 isnt supposed to be Classic Everquest?

It's their version of classic :rolleyes:

[batkiller]

The game is just so old. People can only play the same thing for so long.

[porigromus]

[QUOTE=India;667191]Unfortunately there will always be a huge population hole at those levels and lower... the server is old, content is old, and the timeline to support specific updates is way behind schedule[/QUOTE

I disagree with your points. My son wasn't born when nintendo was going strong. I installed the nintendo emulator and roms and he loves them. They are all new to him. Just because the game is old to you doesn't it is old for everyone. There are people who haven't even played the game.

[Razdeline]

Look at games like Minecraft, shitty graphics, worse than EQ. BUT it is something NEW and has not been done yet. The game-play is outstanding. A lot of people play it too.

[India]

Unfortunately there will always be a huge population hole at those levels and lower... the server is old, content is old, and the timeline to support specific updates is way behind schedule

I disagree with your points. My son wasn't born when nintendo was going strong. I installed the nintendo emulator and roms and he loves them. They are all new to him. Just because the game is old to you doesn't it is old for everyone. There are people who haven't even played the game.

There are millions that haven't played the game and they may even enjoy EQ IF you could get them to try it. Those points do not negate the fact that there is a huge population hole at the levels mentioned and while it is always possible that there will be a large influx of new players to fill in that gap, I highly doubt it.

[SirAlvarex]

I'd like to see global chat. Some places feel so isolated that it can be a turn off for new and newish players. Having a place to chat and form up cross-zone groups would really help IMO

[Danyelle]

I'd like to see global chat. Some places feel so isolated that it can be a turn off for new and newish players. Having a place to chat and form up cross-zone groups would really help IMO

But it's not Classic! Everything that was put in after Velious is evil and killed EQ, no exceptions!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[maahes]

But it's not Classic! Everything that was put in after Velious is evil and killed EQ, no exceptions!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Haha

[Galilao]

Lots of people playing, more then enough guilds/players for content available. Not seeing the issue.

http://i.imgur.com/n59rh.gif

[Splorf22]

Regarding the end game pve raiding scene:

I have a pending proposal for all management and staff to review. If all goes well, you will have news about it soon. Ultimately I would like to have a raid scene in which competition still exists, but that competition isn't solely based on time spent waiting.

Oooh, this could be big!

[HarrisonCantBeStopped]

Regarding the end game pve raiding scene:

I have a pending proposal for all management and staff to review. If all goes well, you will have news about it soon. Ultimately I would like to have a raid scene in which competition still exists, but that competition isn't solely based on time spent waiting.

P99 will be worth playing again, if this comes to fruition.

As of now, sadly, it is not. :(

[Brut]

Recent forum cleanups are a giant leap in the proper direction - hated seeing all the RnF trolls constantly spill out to server chat and beyond to derail perfectly good threads.

Otherwisely Idunno... The near-daily login issues as of late are a huge buzzkill, but am pretty sure if the devs could just snap their fingers to fix that for good, they'd already done so.

But yes, keep up the good work!

[JenJen]

i may return if something is done about the raiding scene, holy moly!!

[radditsu]

Lower the variance windows (ex: 3 days +-8 instead of what we have now for 3 day spawns) and add the spawned versions of epic kill mobs, and go ahead and itemize the minibosses in fear so that harder epics are not impossible to get without a bunch of money for a MQ or join the Uber raiding guild. It would give people a fair amount of stuff to do waiting on Velious. Its not "classic" for the timeline. But community wise it would be the right thing to do.


How many of you Shadowknights out there are waiting for a soul leech? Exactly. A couple days a week you can go raid fear for a golem kill run and maybe get one. You are still putting in the time and the work and raiding for it. It should be rewarded down the line. Why is the rogue epic given away at level one, and the shaman epic almost completely soloable except for the fear tear and final fight if you skip the right parts, while others are impossible with the itemization currently the way it is.


Also random repop "patch" days would be fun as well. For a raider, patch days are the cabbage days. They have always been like a midweek Christmas for raiders. If the guilds mobilize quickly on them, that is one day a week someone gets some loot and has some fun. The uber guild will not be able to get everything if the other tier guilds sit on Fay, or Talendor or even Sev. Smaller guilds have the benefit of having to mobilize less people and are tighter knit. 32k dragons die relatively quickly with a group of smart players.

I get the reasons why repop's are not done. Its to prevent the influx of high level items because the project is behind on its Velious release date. Essentially the market is as saturated with high level items as the end of live kunark, even though overall we had less spawns. So i am not saying that we should have a repop every Wednesday etc. etc. But a bi weekly quick bug fix patch would go a long way for casual raiders to be able to have some fun. The weapon skill bug having to wait a month plus did not do us favors in the newbie department. Things like this could be implemented into these patches and RnF would have a little less to complain about.

To Digress, Everybody eventually wants to slay a dragon. Everybody gets curious of what Venril Sathir is all about. It's a blue server. Nobody should feel griefed off a server due to wanting to do things. Uber guilds will essentially get the same amount of loot, Mid tier/Mid pop guilds will have a chance, and it will foster less frustration with this game. I am assuming that this project was put together so that people could go back to something they loved a long time ago.


I know the above is too long. Sorry about that.

[Alarti0001]

Lower the variance windows (ex: 3 days +-8 instead of what we have now for 3 day spawns) and add the spawned versions of epic kill mobs, and go ahead and itemize the minibosses in fear so that harder epics are not impossible to get without a bunch of money for a MQ or join the Uber raiding guild. It would give people a fair amount of stuff to do waiting on Velious. Its not "classic" for the timeline. But community wise it would be the right thing to do.


How many of you Shadowknights out there are waiting for a soul leech? Exactly. A couple days a week you can go raid fear for a golem kill run and maybe get one. You are still putting in the time and the work and raiding for it. It should be rewarded down the line. Why is the rogue epic given away at level one, and the shaman epic almost completely soloable except for the fear tear and final fight if you skip the right parts, while others are impossible with the itemization currently the way it is.


Also random repop "patch" days would be fun as well. For a raider, patch days are the cabbage days. They have always been like a midweek Christmas for raiders. If the guilds mobilize quickly on them, that is one day a week someone gets some loot and has some fun. The uber guild will not be able to get everything if the other tier guilds sit on Fay, or Talendor or even Sev. Smaller guilds have the benefit of having to mobilize less people and are tighter knit. 32k dragons die relatively quickly with a group of smart players.

I get the reasons why repop's are not done. Its to prevent the influx of high level items because the project is behind on its Velious release date. Essentially the market is as saturated with high level items as the end of live kunark, even though overall we had less spawns. So i am not saying that we should have a repop every Wednesday etc. etc. But a bi weekly quick bug fix patch would go a long way for casual raiders to be able to have some fun. The weapon skill bug having to wait a month plus did not do us favors in the newbie department. Things like this could be implemented into these patches and RnF would have a little less to complain about.

To Digress, Everybody eventually wants to slay a dragon. Everybody gets curious of what Venril Sathir is all about. It's a blue server. Nobody should feel griefed off a server due to wanting to do things. Uber guilds will essentially get the same amount of loot, Mid tier/Mid pop guilds will have a chance, and it will foster less frustration with this game. I am assuming that this project was put together so that people could go back to something they loved a long time ago.


I know the above is too long. Sorry about that.

Hmmm.... had a few thoughts, maybe a weekly repop day and top tier shit needs to die first based on guild status. So like TMO would have to clear VP before they could hit trak/vs BDA would have to kill Trak,VS before they could hit Old world stuff like Inny/CT and whatever guild is below BDA would need to kill CT/Inny before they hit Naggy/Vox.
Just a thought.

Or maybe a repop day where each guild gets to petition to reserve a specific mob per repop.

[Ravager]

Hmmm.... had a few thoughts, maybe a weekly repop day and top tier shit needs to die first based on guild status. So like TMO would have to clear VP before they could hit trak/vs BDA would have to kill Trak,VS before they could hit Old world stuff like Inny/CT and whatever guild is below BDA would need to kill CT/Inny before they hit Naggy/Vox.
Just a thought.

Or maybe a repop day where each guild gets to petition to reserve a specific mob per repop.

I kinda like this idea, it gives guilds room to advance, but also leaves room for competition when they do advance.

[Stealin Dragons]

should change the variance to 2hrs put all raid targets on a 7day timer and then do bi weekly repops.

This way, you'll have all mobs spawned, they will all be killed within a few hours of each other, which means that a week from then they will all spawn in a block of a few hours.

Now if a guild chooses to poopsock a mob prior to windows, they take a risk of it spawning late and losing other targets. Even if a guild can poopsock and mobilize for other targets, they are still limiting what they could do normally. It would also allow other guilds to sit for a few hours and pick up raid targets as well if nothing else, giving them targets that they normally wouldn't be able to get.

With a bi weekly repop the targets wouldn't get too far apart in windows as well, keeping things close. This would also free up huge tracking hours that raid guilds put in that causes burn out and allow them to actually play alts and help the server they play on.

[Maze513]

Hmmm.... had a few thoughts, maybe a weekly repop day and top tier shit needs to die first based on guild status. So like TMO would have to clear VP before they could hit trak/vs BDA would have to kill Trak,VS before they could hit Old world stuff like Inny/CT and whatever guild is below BDA would need to kill CT/Inny before they hit Naggy/Vox.
Just a thought.

Or maybe a repop day where each guild gets to petition to reserve a specific mob per repop.

Starting to see a path.... +1

[Bruman]

Hmmm.... had a few thoughts, maybe a weekly repop day and top tier shit needs to die first based on guild status. So like TMO would have to clear VP before they could hit trak/vs BDA would have to kill Trak,VS before they could hit Old world stuff like Inny/CT and whatever guild is below BDA would need to kill CT/Inny before they hit Naggy/Vox.
Just a thought.

should change the variance to 2hrs put all raid targets on a 7day timer and then do bi weekly repops.

(snip all the good reasons why)


Stop posting crap I agree with :(

I think for a long time now people have been asking to remove/reduce variance and have simulation patch days with full repops. Hoping Nilbog can let us in on his plans, and hopefully it's good stuff!

[radditsu]

Its not entirely a bad idea. I mean the guildstatus thing can be very subjective. I know Divinity can kill pretty much any dragon. BDA if they had enough keys could get the easier VP dragons. That's the crux. It would require some nut flexing from all guilds involved. Respect for when 30 people are in a zone, we hit another target if we are just showing up. And vice versa. But it would require the server to have multiple things up at once. A weekly or bi-weekly repop would do such a thing. Honestly you guys have done this on occasion with gore.

Honestly, for a long time TMO would have the run of VP. Which is the best loot and what you should be focusing on anyway. That and the "backflagging" for trak for teeth your new recruits and epic piece mobs. A full VP repop takes you guys awhile still i am assuming?

Honestly do you guys really want to kill MAESTRO everytime he immediately pops? You want to log in, go up to hate, slog through the new zone in break (really fun btw) and Literally the only thing he drops that's any good is the warrior epic piece. And most of the time its that stupid shield and monk face.

I could see you guys going up, slogging through hate gearing up recruits, doing maestro and inny, and having a fun hour/hour and a half. When divinity, or bda, or enraptured or whatever sees TMO with 30 people clearing a zone, they do not leapfrog. When you guys see BDA murdering juggs waiting for a trak to spawn (in a reduced window). Just stay off poop island. I mean, keep a tracker up by all means.


Respect will be earned. 2 week vacations will be nil. Good friends may come back and play. It is a little carebear, but it means people will have a population that will buy those 100k trak BPs and VS legs.

It really boils down to having something to do. The TMO majority can't possibly be having fun doing those low tier mobs that have ONE thing they might need. Velious would fix alot of the "what are we going to kill today" problems. But for now, why don't we just respect each others space on these things, and ask the dev's for a few simple changes to the amount of loot mobs that can spawn during a given week. We all flex a little nuts for now, get to velious, and then have some real fun.

[Artah]

How about adding epic pieces to drop in VP instead of old world bosses? The top tier guilds would have less reasons to kill inny/maestro/ct/naggy/vox.

[radditsu]

should change the variance to 2hrs put all raid targets on a 7day timer and then do bi weekly repops.

This way, you'll have all mobs spawned, they will all be killed within a few hours of each other, which means that a week from then they will all spawn in a block of a few hours.

Now if a guild chooses to poopsock a mob prior to windows, they take a risk of it spawning late and losing other targets. Even if a guild can poopsock and mobilize for other targets, they are still limiting what they could do normally. It would also allow other guilds to sit for a few hours and pick up raid targets as well if nothing else, giving them targets that they normally wouldn't be able to get.

With a bi weekly repop the targets wouldn't get too far apart in windows as well, keeping things close. This would also free up huge tracking hours that raid guilds put in that causes burn out and allow them to actually play alts and help the server they play on.


Its like rainbows in my brain. I mean the +/- could be adjusted if the dev team thinks too much loot is flowing. Maybe in one of those bi weekly simulated /real patches we would love so much.

Guys, we all have to make it to velious. The poison between people for a simple guildtag means we wont make it. TMO has good people. BDA has good people. Divinity has good people. Peace Pipe has good people, albeit addled slightly :P. We are not going to see sleeper, AOW, Yelinak without good people. We have to respect each others rights, either work together or leave each other alone.

[radditsu]

How about adding epic pieces to drop in VP instead of old world bosses? The top tier guilds would have less reasons to kill inny/maestro/ct/naggy/vox.

Fear golem itemization would fix alot of the Issues with this as well. Why wait around for ct when you can kill the golems and get the epic items? People would have a shot.
Was maestro given inny loots during the revamp at the time? Then he would be a target worth people's time even more on an inny/maestro run.


I mean if we could crowdsource some simple to implement ideas. Ex loot tables that are relatively easy to adjust, repops with lower variance, simulated pops. Maybe have the VS/Trak spawnable versions early. Just to get us to velious.

[Maze513]

I think the fact that I will never be part of a dragon kill. Makes me not log on that much.

you get outta [ X ] what you put into [ X ]

if you logged in more maybe people would want you to come kill dragons with them... Its happening weather your there or not. The only thing stopping you is yourself.

As far as moving some epic loots around we could also possible consider things like The Undead bard and VSR to help move along epics bottlenecks

[radditsu]

I think the fact that I will never be part of a dragon kill. Makes me not log on that much.

Many of us have seen every dragon at some point in time. If you put in the hours enough to see a dragon, which as it stands is far more than live, you should get one. Get 50-52, get some resist gear, and go get a naggy kill.

Kinda hard when he spawns at 4am and a deathsquad gets him dead at 4:15! But manageable if a raid is able to pinpoint a closer time, get him in a peak hour, and at least attempt him. Its a rush. Its part of the game. High level guilds should care less about that kind of stuff.

[Alarti0001]

Its not entirely a bad idea. I mean the guildstatus thing can be very subjective. I know Divinity can kill pretty much any dragon. BDA if they had enough keys could get the easier VP dragons. That's the crux. It would require some nut flexing from all guilds involved. Respect for when 30 people are in a zone, we hit another target if we are just showing up. And vice versa. But it would require the server to have multiple things up at once. A weekly or bi-weekly repop would do such a thing. Honestly you guys have done this on occasion with gore.


Its not based on what they can kill, its what they can kill competitively. Keyed or not BDA or Divinity could not in any compete against TMO in VP.
Also you would be hard pressed to get TMO to agree to any form of rotation in VP.

[Artah]

I think the fact that I will never be part of a dragon kill. Makes me not log on that much.

you seriously can't blame anyone else for this unless you like to stay in a 2 man guild. get 60 and apply to the guilds that's killing dragons.

[sedrie.bellamie]

The answer is get TMO off p99, you'll have alot more folks come back to the server. Its just plain boring here once you hit 60, unless you give in to joining TMO for the phat pixels. But TMO regularly kills every target with two times the required force so not sure how much fun that would be.

lol RMT some es legs recently?

[Greeedy]

Keyed or not BDA or Divinity could not in any compete against TMO in VP.

By 'compete' he of course means BDA or Divinity would not engage in training as TMO would. Nor would they be as good as it even if they tried - it requires a certain amount of on-the-job experience that is lacking in those guilds.

That may be competition and it may not - point is, people seem to have very different conceptions of what competition actually is. Until we have a working definition of 'competition', extremely ambiguous posts that only lead to shit fits like this will continue.

If I recall, TMO could only 'compete' in farming lockets for the first few months that the IB/DW merger guild TR completely owned the server. When they had farmed the crap so long and were still waiting for VP to come out, people just did not log on anymore. IB could barely pull 20 people on a good night, so they merged their raids with VD to get the numbers. Honestly Alarti, I would calm down about how wonderful your guild is...whatever 'competition' means, being able to do it after the fact does not make you special in any way.

[sedrie.bellamie]

TMO kills "lesser" raid targets for one item? I do not think so. Every dragon has a chance to drop dragon scales: needed for warrior/bard epic. Yes Masetro drops the hand for the warrior epic and that is all TMO really needs: and yes there are plenty of Mains in TMO with out lightsabers.

Just b/c TMO has 100 people doesn't mean that the right classes always come online for a raid. Everyone wants their epic and TMO is trying to do that for everyone of their members. What is TMO suppose to do? Tell all the mains without their epics that TMO has to wait until all the casuals get theirs? Sorry half of TMO necros and warriors you have to wait until the casuals get theirs.

There is a reason you guys are called casual. It takes dedication to get to VP, to kill a mob like Gore, and to do things like break fear and hate. If these things were so easy all the casuals would do them. But it takes 25+ people and smart leadership.

People in this thread think it is as easy as getting 30+ people to show up. Make sure those 30 have MR over 250, make sure you have clerics/chanters each with bag loads of 'dots. Make sure your puller and Main Assist know their jobs.

Raiding is not like getting a pick up group in KC or seb. You need people who won't AFK for an hour, you need people who know how to play their classes and know their role in a raid. These things just dont happen over night.

You casuals got 2 weeks to figure out how to raid and not just zerg. TMO can zerg sometimes b/c 80+ log on for VS. But what about those 4am ragefires or races to TD for fay? You BDA/VD/IB can complain about TMO ruining "your" server but think about the 100 people in TMO? they do not deserve to kill raid mobs b/c they have done it already?

Sorry Tom Bardy but we dont want to play football against you anymore. What cry baby stuff right there. You all say, anyone can kill a 32k dragon on p99. Then do it.

Stop asking for hand outs, stop asking for free mobs, stop asking the GMs to get involved. If you want a raid mob, get a raid and take that mob.

[sedrie.bellamie]

B\

If I recall, TMO could only 'compete' in farming lockets for the first few months that the IB/DW merger guild TR completely owned the server. When they had farmed the crap so long and were still waiting for VP to come out, people just did not log on anymore. IB could barely pull 20 people on a good night, so they merged their raids with VD to get the numbers. Honestly Alarti, I would calm down about how wonderful your guild is...whatever 'competition' means, being able to do it after the fact does not make you special in any way.



This, exactly this. If you want to compete against TMO you have to build up like TMO did. TMO didn't just call upon the dark side of the force for their power. They built it up by farming lockets, raiding sky for a whole summer, and recruiting "good" players. I guess I could see how people not in TMO could feel. But if the shoe was on the other foot you would be crying like TMO is doing now.

Competition is getting good leadership, strong officers, and people who WANT to log in at anytime to fight the enemy. TMO was sad to see IB go (but happy to see VD go) b/c it was the competition that brought some of the TMO to p99. TMO wanted to be the top guild on the server and did that throu competition.

That is what it is going to take. BDA is going to have to want to be the number 1 guild and not just call them that because of their large numbers. TMO got number one by out racing and being smarter players. If BDA ( and their tag along VD/IB brothers) really wanted to compete they would merge and start actively tracking targets.

But that is where TMO succeeds and everyone else fails. TMO knows how to share loot, tracking duties, and raid leadership. That did not come about b/c IB had to take 2 weeks off. It took TMO a year to build up to the point they could go to war with IB.

If you want to go to war with TMO then you need to do your homework and not just expect handouts.

[Stealin Dragons]

By 'compete' he of course means BDA or Divinity would not engage in training as TMO would. Nor would they be as good as it even if they tried - it requires a certain amount of on-the-job experience that is lacking in those guilds.

That may be competition and it may not - point is, people seem to have very different conceptions of what competition actually is. Until we have a working definition of 'competition', extremely ambiguous posts that only lead to shit fits like this will continue.

If I recall, TMO could only 'compete' in farming lockets for the first few months that the IB/DW merger guild TR completely owned the server. When they had farmed the crap so long and were still waiting for VP to come out, people just did not log on anymore. IB could barely pull 20 people on a good night, so they merged their raids with VD to get the numbers. Honestly Alarti, I would calm down about how wonderful your guild is...whatever 'competition' means, being able to do it after the fact does not make you special in any way.

I've kicked the ass of everyone in IB. They all returned at some point to get stomped by me while wearing < The Mystical Order > as a guild tag.

Also, I could say that not everyone was in TMO when Kunark came about and the first few months. I rejoined the same time TMO started taking out raid targets and we only progressed, IB just fell apart due to their own shitty members doing what they did prekunark and do to the overwhelming enemy of TMO.

IB was forced by their own members to join up with VD to keep going, which also pissed off other members. It was IB's drive to keep TMO from killing targets that ended up being their downfall.

That trend of keeping others from killing targets has been around since the server started. Which is the best way to keep your guild ahead of others on expac launches and so forth.

[HarrisonCantBeStopped]

By 'compete' he of course means BDA or Divinity would not engage in training as TMO would. Nor would they be as good as it even if they tried - it requires a certain amount of on-the-job experience that is lacking in those guilds.

That may be competition and it may not - point is, people seem to have very different conceptions of what competition actually is. Until we have a working definition of 'competition', extremely ambiguous posts that only lead to shit fits like this will continue.

If I recall, TMO could only 'compete' in farming lockets for the first few months that the IB/DW merger guild TR completely owned the server. When they had farmed the crap so long and were still waiting for VP to come out, people just did not log on anymore. IB could barely pull 20 people on a good night, so they merged their raids with VD to get the numbers. Honestly Alarti, I would calm down about how wonderful your guild is...whatever 'competition' means, being able to do it after the fact does not make you special in any way.

Don't forget that when Kunark launched TMO killed the spell merchants, bugging them, to cockblock large swathes of players from even getting to kunark. The merchants either didn't respawn at all, or didn't respawn with the kunark port spells on them.

Then they proceeded to poopsock camps 24/7, not raiding, because they couldn't compete with a real raiding guild.

They cheated, just to go poopsock lowbie camps.

[radditsu]

TMO kills "lesser" raid targets for one item? I do not think so. Every dragon has a chance to drop dragon scales: needed for warrior/bard epic. Yes Masetro drops the hand for the warrior epic and that is all TMO really needs: and yes there are plenty of Mains in TMO with out lightsabers.

Just b/c TMO has 100 people doesn't mean that the right classes always come online for a raid. Everyone wants their epic and TMO is trying to do that for everyone of their members. What is TMO suppose to do? Tell all the mains without their epics that TMO has to wait until all the casuals get theirs? Sorry half of TMO necros and warriors you have to wait until the casuals get theirs.

There is a reason you guys are called casual. It takes dedication to get to VP, to kill a mob like Gore, and to do things like break fear and hate. If these things were so easy all the casuals would do them. But it takes 25+ people and smart leadership.

People in this thread think it is as easy as getting 30+ people to show up. Make sure those 30 have MR over 250, make sure you have clerics/chanters each with bag loads of 'dots. Make sure your puller and Main Assist know their jobs.

Raiding is not like getting a pick up group in KC or seb. You need people who won't AFK for an hour, you need people who know how to play their classes and know their role in a raid. These things just dont happen over night.

You casuals got 2 weeks to figure out how to raid and not just zerg. TMO can zerg sometimes b/c 80+ log on for VS. But what about those 4am ragefires or races to TD for fay? You BDA/VD/IB can complain about TMO ruining "your" server but think about the 100 people in TMO? they do not deserve to kill raid mobs b/c they have done it already?

Sorry Tom Bardy but we dont want to play football against you anymore. What cry baby stuff right there. You all say, anyone can kill a 32k dragon on p99. Then do it.

Stop asking for hand outs, stop asking for free mobs, stop asking the GMs to get involved. If you want a raid mob, get a raid and take that mob.


Got sev in a morning pop with 1 rogue and a few other dps, in day 1 or 2. Was a long fight but it was still taken care of. One night repop BDA got the majority of the raid mobs. Divinity beat BDA to the pull on fay, complete and utter grats to them. Guilds besides tmo can mobilize and get mobs with less than ideal situations. I, personally, am not saying you guys should tell anybody to "wait for the other guilds". What i am saying is that we need to not be dicks to each other. The current situation makes it pretty hard for people to not be dicks to each other. Due to the way certain implementations of spawncode were made to combat things that happened on this server a good while ago, because people were being dicks to each other.
Frankly, you have to look at the future. This thread was brought up it seems because people want to do something to up the population in this limbo we currently are working with. I even quoted and agreed with stealin!

A couple of the ideas tossed around would give you even more epic loot drop opportunities than you do right now. But it also would give other guilds opportunities as well.

Look if I was the miami dolphins. I would hate to play tom brady 2 times a year. But i would still go out, get 400 yards dropped on me with 5 touchdowns, but if i can snag an interception and run it back for the TD every once in awhile, maybe we could get a win out of it. It keeps you in the game. But if tom brady has a mic in his helmet stealing the defensive signals, after he could already beat us with his talent. Well that's just not competition. That's being a dick.

And then the giants beat them in the superbowl.

[falkun]

Alarti, no one outside of TMO cares what TMO wants to throw their weight around to obtain. If you guys want to train and grief other guilds out of VP so you can obtain another bagged weapon for your 5th L15 ranger tracker bot, congratulations. As a bard, I won't be using anything other than a drum, a lute, and possibly my epic anyways, so the weapons are pretty mute. When you get back from your vacation, enjoy clearing it for the 50th time.

Alarti, remember your initial VP experience was gifted (http://www.project1999.org/forums/showpost.php?p=440016&postcount=1) to you by server staff, months after the previous #1 guild was prepared to enter VP. It is showing that your guild doesn't pay it forward to other guilds. I'm glad to see BDA paying it forward (http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=76871), even if that means I, as a BDA member, get fewer raid mobs than possible.

Sedrie, BDA has been selectively competing against TMO to "take that raid mob." But then TMO resorts to tactics similar to those resulting in their suspension. "Compete" fairly, or don't compete, and don't call raid-suspension-worthy tactics "competing".

If you were sad to see IB/TR leave, why did you grief them off the server? Its called a sore winner (even if obtained via raid-suspension-worthy tactics), and people see that and respond to it, usually by ignoring you.

Stealin: what has that competition given you? You have uninstalled this game, the fact that you still post on these forums (and that you've changed monikers to avoid a ban) shows that you are just as "bad/mad/sad" as your rival(s). Pot - kettle - black. If you enjoyed this game, come back and play it, I'd hope TMO would love to see you return. If its not fun, might I suggest HoN, DOTA2, MW2, or another game built for PVP where your prowess can actually be measured in something other than the months you have put into the game. EQ was not designed as a PVP game, the sooner you realize it, the healthier you'll be in the long run.

[LizardNecro]

...and add the spawned versions of epic kill mobs, and go ahead and itemize the minibosses in fear and hate so that harder epics are not impossible to get without a bunch of money for a MQ or join the Uber raiding guild. It would give people a fair amount of stuff to do waiting on Velious. Its not "classic" for the timeline. But community wise it would be the right thing to do.

Truth (and fixed a small omission) :D

[radditsu]

I honestly believe stealing was sad to see IB go. I honestly believe you guys want a real competition. I believe you guys want that knockdown drag out fight that you had. But I do not think anybody wants to give it to you guys, not on the terms you really want. Maybe IB will come back and do it. I don't think anybody else wants to get in the mud.

So you win by default.

Now back to the task at hand. Ideas to make this server pop go up. GO

[radditsu]

Truth (and fixed a small omission) :D

Honest mistake. I have those.

[Artah]

I honestly believe stealing was sad to see IB go. I honestly believe you guys want a real competition. I believe you guys want that knockdown drag out fight that you had. But I do not think anybody wants to give it to you guys, not on the terms you really want. Maybe IB will come back and do it. I don't think anybody else wants to get in the mud.

So you win by default.

Now back to the task at hand. Ideas to make this server pop go up. GO

If enough of the rest of the guilds combine forces you can really bring a lot of adrenaline rush to the server. What i'm seeing is that the rest of the guilds/players that can easily bring competition to TMO if they wanted to can't get along with each other to do it. That is not TMO's fault.

Now the task at hand, these new players that gets on the server to check it out should be invited to starter up guilds to keep them intested, make friends and give them more reasons to keep playing. That should help somewhat.

[Alarti0001]

By 'compete' he of course means BDA or Divinity would not engage in training as TMO would. Nor would they be as good as it even if they tried - it requires a certain amount of on-the-job experience that is lacking in those guilds.

That may be competition and it may not - point is, people seem to have very different conceptions of what competition actually is. Until we have a working definition of 'competition', extremely ambiguous posts that only lead to shit fits like this will continue.

If I recall, TMO could only 'compete' in farming lockets for the first few months that the IB/DW merger guild TR completely owned the server. When they had farmed the crap so long and were still waiting for VP to come out, people just did not log on anymore. IB could barely pull 20 people on a good night, so they merged their raids with VD to get the numbers. Honestly Alarti, I would calm down about how wonderful your guild is...whatever 'competition' means, being able to do it after the fact does not make you special in any way.

Your information is incorrect TMO started by contesting trak. While TR was still pulling 50+ members. They stopped logging in so much after we got a 14 or so Trak kill streak. TR still needed a whole lot of keys and loots from Trak. Long before this streak however but after our first trak kill....which was before the DA/TMO merber btw... we started contesting other spawns started off with about 50/50 kill count with the exception of gore as many of our members were below 60.

Anyways when TR lost their numbers after we got multiple trak kill streaks. They reformed as IB and raided with VD with raids numbers exceeding 60 and sometimes 80.

You can try to change the facts if you want. But our frontpage updates show alot of the facts.

You can call competition training all you want. But if BDA or Div wanted to compete with us even without trains, KSing or poopsocking they would have no chance. This is even admitted by BDA's members. We can mobilize at about triple the speed of any other guild on the server and that included IB or TR. I am not saying just logging in but getting from point A to B.

@falkun VP was gifted to IB. As was proved later on TMO was the dominate VP guild. IB would train us we would train them, but the only guild who got kills during the trains was TMO.
also FYI VP drops more than weapons. Robes, Crowns, Earrings, and Cloaks OH MY
The robe is BIS for many classes until Vulak, the Crown is BiS for some classes until late velious and farter for int casters. The other 2 Phara items last a good bit too.
Not to mention utility drops and other items that last well into velious off hoshkar, xygoz and such.

Further, BDA has participated in kiting mobs too i.e. Draco. Not to mention the one mob we were kiting was while waiting on a Sirran depop after you leapfrogged us and killed 2 after we killed isle 1.
Super jerk move!

[Lazortag]

There is a reason you guys are called casual. It takes dedication to ... do things like break fear and hate. If these things were so easy all the casuals would do them. But it takes 25+ people and smart leadership.

People in this thread think it is as easy as getting 30+ people to show up. Make sure those 30 have MR over 250, make sure you have clerics/chanters each with bag loads of 'dots. Make sure your puller and Main Assist know their jobs.

Raiding is not like getting a pick up group in KC or seb. You need people who won't AFK for an hour, you need people who know how to play their classes and know their role in a raid. These things just dont happen over night.

....

Stop asking for hand outs, stop asking for free mobs, stop asking the GMs to get involved. If you want a raid mob, get a raid and take that mob.

I don't even know what this conversation is about anymore, but I wanted to point out how hilariously out of touch you are with the raid scene and the casual guilds that play on it. Firstly, what world do you live in where it takes 25+ people to break fear or hate, or where casual guilds even have a problem doing this? Do you think the reason casuals aren't getting CT on a regular basis is because they don't know how to break Fear? We've been there, we've done that, we've killed every non-VP mob on this server except Gore and Trak at some point. Our pullers and main assists know how to do their jobs. Our clerics and enchanters all have copious amounts of peridots. We don't have members who go AFK for an hour, and everyone knows their role. No one is asking for handouts or free mobs. We just want the raid scene to demand approximately the same amount of time investment that would have been demanded in classic, where casual raid guilds got mobs all the time. If you think the top guilds monopolize content on this server because they're just so much more skilled, or that casual guilds do poorly because they suck at the game, then you're delusional.

[BodeanicusBaldingSlob]

Most of us have been there; done that.

If you think you're more skilled than someone else, there is a good chance you are deluding yourself out of fear of the realization that you are another mediocre scrub only getting what they have because raid rules are being broken and not enforced. (Such as poopsocking. The variance is there to curb this, but no one expected people to be SO pathetic that they would sit through the entire variance window anyways. Poopsocking is basically looking at the staff and telling them, "Fuck you. We're doing what we want anyways, regardless of what you say.")

[inyane]

TMO probably owns 75% of the level 60 accounts on the server, and I suspect a great many of them are left at strategic login locations.

It's not much of a race when it takes your guild 30 secs to log off whatever character they are playing and log in to the buffed and ready to go raid force sitting at trak, or wherever.

As for TMO "competing" back in the day when they weren't #1...all I remember about those days is that it was about HUGE poopfests. I don't ever remember reading anything about the awesome races TMO was winning by mobilizing, but I do remember reading about them sitting the raid force on spawns for 3+ days.

I think everyone on the server would be happy if the GM's would just give everyone in TMO their epics, and best in slots, so they would have no reason to log in, and the rest of us could actually enjoy the game.

[Greeedy]

Are you clinically insane Alarti?

[BodeanicusBaldingSlob]

TMO probably owns 75% of the level 60 accounts on the server, and I suspect a great many of them are left at strategic login locations.

It's not much of a race when it takes your guild 30 secs to log off whatever character they are playing and log in to the buffed and ready to go raid force sitting at trak, or wherever.

As for TMO "competing" back in the day when they weren't #1...all I remember about those days is that it was about HUGE poopfests. I don't ever remember reading anything about the awesome races TMO was winning by mobilizing, but I do remember reading about them sitting the raid force on spawns for 3+ days.

I think everyone on the server would be happy if the GM's would just give everyone in TMO their epics, and best in slots, so they would have no reason to log in, and the rest of us could actually enjoy the game.

That is all that happened. Sitting on spawnpoints isn't competitive. It's bypassing known rules to win at any means necessary, even when it's VERY OBVIOUSLY against the rules.

[radditsu]

You can call competition training all you want. But if BDA or Div wanted to compete with us even without trains, KSing or poopsocking they would have no chance. This is even admitted by BDA's members. We can mobilize at about triple the speed of any other guild on the server and that included IB or TR. I am not saying just logging in but getting from point A to B.




Yep but you have to admit BDA is getting better at moving from point a to b. We do not have dedicated alts sitting in Various spawns to get the mob locked down and get that fte everybody wants. Nor do we have a significant amount of players bound in a central location to facilitate mobilization(aka karnors). Getting better though. You guys are the clear top of the sever when it comes to that stuff. However on live this was not the end all be all of a raid. Frequently multiple targets would spawn. That is a rarity here. I have seen you posted the reason we got trak (before ban) was because inny popped right before it. How rare is it that happens? You guys had to choose. Server repop plus a shorter variance would solve this. Again, you would still get just as much loot. You would get to pick and choose your priority.

If 4 or 5 dragon killing guilds were on this server. You guys may not get a talendor/sev/fay on a server pop. You would, as it stands, get all of vp. What is more important to you? Best in slot items or a few warriors maestro hands? With your mobilization you could snag trak or vs then head to vp. That keeps teeth out of other guilds hands.

We see you murdering VS, we go for trak. We are out of your way, but still a race. Because you can mobilize to trak and snag it if we do not have a great presence there. You still get a ton of loot. We get better. We don't have random necromancers "accidentally" training the groups killing juggs. The <TMO> tag is clean. No bans.

You want to fight us like you guys and IB fought. The "Casual" guilds are not interested. The "Casuals" do not want to think people are a certain way because of a guildtag. I WANT to like the guys in TMO. I do not hate the guys who left BDA for TMO. I think down the line we are going to need each other to get over the hump of some velious stuff. I do not want to see the senario we are seeing on red right now, with an entire server for 30 people. We need a positive influx of quan right now.

Start here and propose some changes to the landscape as it is right now. We have some good ideas. Maybe this is what they are thinking already. Maybe he will read this thread and tweak the proposal a tad to suit our positive ideas. Heck Stealin' liking something should get everybody's attention!

Or maybe the "winter is coming" nonsense will have IB back at velious and you guys can have all the "fun" you guys want.

[Alarti0001]

Are you clinically insane Alarti?

no. lol why post a rhetorical question without any reason for your judgement...go to rnf

[Alarti0001]

Yep but you have to admit BDA is getting better at moving from point a to b. We do not have dedicated alts sitting in Various spawns to get the mob locked down and get that fte everybody wants. Nor do we have a significant amount of players bound in a central location to facilitate mobilization(aka karnors). Getting better though. You guys are the clear top of the sever when it comes to that stuff. However on live this was not the end all be all of a raid. Frequently multiple targets would spawn. That is a rarity here. I have seen you posted the reason we got trak (before ban) was because inny popped right before it. How rare is it that happens? You guys had to choose. Server repop plus a shorter variance would solve this. Again, you would still get just as much loot. You would get to pick and choose your priority.

If 4 or 5 dragon killing guilds were on this server. You guys may not get a talendor/sev/fay on a server pop. You would, as it stands, get all of vp. What is more important to you? Best in slot items or a few warriors maestro hands? With your mobilization you could snag trak or vs then head to vp. That keeps teeth out of other guilds hands.

We see you murdering VS, we go for trak. We are out of your way, but still a race. Because you can mobilize to trak and snag it if we do not have a great presence there. You still get a ton of loot. We get better. We don't have random necromancers "accidentally" training the groups killing juggs. The <TMO> tag is clean. No bans.

You want to fight us like you guys and IB fought. The "Casual" guilds are not interested. The "Casuals" do not want to think people are a certain way because of a guildtag. I WANT to like the guys in TMO. I do not hate the guys who left BDA for TMO. I think down the line we are going to need each other to get over the hump of some velious stuff. I do not want to see the senario we are seeing on red right now, with an entire server for 30 people. We need a positive influx of quan right now.

Start here and propose some changes to the landscape as it is right now. We have some good ideas. Maybe this is what they are thinking already. Maybe he will read this thread and tweak the proposal a tad to suit our positive ideas. Heck Stealin' liking something should get everybody's attention!

Or maybe the "winter is coming" nonsense will have IB back at velious and you guys can have all the "fun" you guys want.

You guys are doing way better and i grats you guys on your guild discussion thread or in tells to my friends in BDA.
Most don't know this but I was in BDA until TMO(my live guild) came here.

Also, if you read earlier I am for serer repops and made a couple suggestions concerning them. We aren't really worried about losing gore/sev/tal etc.

But as a raid guild we have a responsibility to our members to try to get them their epic pieces they need. VS, CT, Inny are priority targets and Trak too. We still have alot of necros to epic a couple wizzies and a bard or two. Only reason other mobs werent up on our endagered species list were for those reasons and the exceedingly rare drop rate of guts and ct pieces in general.

If you want the server to work better think before you petiiton. TMO hardly petitions and prefers not to. If you think we trained you intentionally talk to our raid leaders first, its never going to be intentional.

I understand you don't hate the guys who left BDA for us.
But some of your guild does, some of the VD guys too.
Yendor ESPECIALLY.

If you claim to have friends in this game(this isnt directed at you radditsu) then be friends anyone who left TMO on good terms has maintained friendships in TMO. Yet some ex BDA members, or ex VD members are getting flamed by their former guildies and friends, both on your boards and in tells, or with harrassment on the 99 forums.
This hyperbolic crap needs to stop. Joining TMO is not defecting to Russia during the cold war. Stop making people feel like shit or betrayers just because they want to play the guild differently than you. Its pathetic.

[radditsu]

If you claim to have friends in this game(this isnt directed at you radditsu) then be friends anyone who left TMO on good terms has maintained friendships in TMO. Yet some ex BDA members, or ex VD members are getting flamed by their former guildies and friends, both on your boards and in tells, or with harrassment on the 99 forums.
This hyperbolic crap needs to stop. Joining TMO is not defecting to Russia during the cold war. Stop making people feel like shit or betrayers just because they want to play the guild differently than you. Its pathetic.


It all boils down the the psychology of a human being. If someone is in group blue (randomly selected), and people in group red(randomly selected) those people will tend to become entwined with people in the same group. When some people leave each way or vise versa, an emotional response is felt. Its like the ID or something. It leaves a bad taste in folks mouth. If back on live if i felt the sting everytime someone left my guild for Triton, I would be an emotional wreck forever. Most of us just shrug and move on. This also causes bad blood between people because of a guild tag. It runs rampant because its a game and normal social cues do not apply.

[Relapse1]

TMO hardly petitions and prefers not to. If you think we trained you intentionally talk to our raid leaders first, its never going to be intentional.


Just had to quote that for the epic lulz

[Silentone]

Just had to quote that for the epic lulz

Just had to point out this guy trolls these forums after admiting he RMT'd and left the server for a better place. L U L Z

[Dullah]

Combine red and blue, turn on pvp only for zones with active raid content.

Win.

[radditsu]

Combine red and blue, turn on pvp only for zones with active raid content.

Win.


According to the population of red it seems like a good deal of people would not agree to that sentiment. Although releasing kunark on red and have the pvp mindset people be able to transfer over would be a semi interesting idea to me.

/guildwar ftw!

[Atmas]

You guys are doing way better and i grats you guys on your guild discussion thread or in tells to my friends in BDA.

But as a raid guild we have a responsibility to our members to try to get them their epic pieces they need.

Good post overall imo, these two lines really stand out with me. A lot of the people who don't even raid at a casual level but jump on the hate band wagon would be surprised by how much good will alot of the people in TMO have towards BDA killing targets. The continued hatemongering campaign that TMO is like some P99 Umbrella corportation surely doesn't help numbers if people read the forums before playing. People complain about poopsocking still? I have seen one or two instances of this in the last two months and it wasn't TMO.

Radditsu, and I am not trying to pick on him or anything, made a post about why kill a mob if its only got one thing someone might need? Well thats what a guild is right? People don't show up to raid based on the contigency that they are guranteed a chance for something for themselves from every mob.

Anyway, getting back to the topic. This server is very top heavy. I'm not sure people all know the history but when Velious was released with content for level 35+ it was claimed by the game makers that this reflected the majority of players mains. Obviously on this server Kunark has been out longer and people level faster with more available knowledge. I'm not saying this as a slight to the developers cause I know they work hard, but the truth can't be ignored that a higher percentage of this server is maxed out than was on live and solutions need to take that into account.

[Alarti0001]

It all boils down the the psychology of a human being. If someone is in group blue (randomly selected), and people in group red(randomly selected) those people will tend to become entwined with people in the same group. When some people leave each way or vise versa, an emotional response is felt. Its like the ID or something. It leaves a bad taste in folks mouth. If back on live if i felt the sting everytime someone left my guild for Triton, I would be an emotional wreck forever. Most of us just shrug and move on. This also causes bad blood between people because of a guild tag. It runs rampant because its a game and normal social cues do not apply.

I refuse to think a rational human being is slave to standard psychology. Every independent person is capable of controlling themselves and correcting their thinking if they are being emotional or irrational.
I understand why it happens but I do not excuse it.

[Maze513]

TMO loves this server more then anyone here thinks. Why would we want to salt the earth we harvest for our lovely pixels. The health of this server Does matter to them and I think with Velious coming down the pipe and the recent feelings of the smaller guild, that we'll probably be seeing a new softer TMO in the next months. We are all here for the same thing To play "Classic" EQ and no one wants to see that go. TMO is in the same boat

[Alarti0001]

Anyway, getting back to the topic. This server is very top heavy. I'm not sure people all know the history but when Velious was released with content for level 35+ it was claimed by the game makers that this reflected the majority of players mains. Obviously on this server Kunark has been out longer and people level faster with more available knowledge. I'm not saying this as a slight to the developers cause I know they work hard, but the truth can't be ignored that a higher percentage of this server is maxed out than was on live and solutions need to take that into account.

This we are beyond top heavy, and velious is very late. we should be in luclin by now right?

[radditsu]

This we are beyond top heavy, and velious is very late. we should be in luclin by now right?

What a great idea would it be to just enable the Spawnable Epic kills then? It would certainly buy us a lot of time for velious to come out.

[Tanthallas]

It all boils down the the psychology of a human being. If someone is in group blue (randomly selected), and people in group red(randomly selected) those people will tend to become entwined with people in the same group. When some people leave each way or vise versa, an emotional response is felt. Its like the ID or something. It leaves a bad taste in folks mouth. If back on live if i felt the sting everytime someone left my guild for Triton, I would be an emotional wreck forever. Most of us just shrug and move on. This also causes bad blood between people because of a guild tag. It runs rampant because its a game and normal social cues do not apply.

I refuse to think a rational human being is slave to standard psychology. Every independent person is capable of controlling themselves and correcting their thinking if they are being emotional or irrational.
I understand why it happens but I do not excuse it.

The problem with this is, once again, a fictitious context.

[Grumble]

Combine red and blue, turn on pvp only for zones with active raid content.

Win.

I'm only a lowly newb on this server, so this would have no immediate effect on me. However, if this were implemented I would quit. I detest PvP.

[Kevlar]

What a great idea would it be to just enable the Spawnable Epic kills then? It would certainly buy us a lot of time for velious to come out.

Not really. It might make some of the harde core raiders quit early. They, having done everything, get most of their enjoyment from cock blocking other guilds. The loot at this point is meaningless. Its more about proving that they are the alpha-nerds than anything else.

Take that away and many will lose interest fast.

[maahes]

That is all that happened. Sitting on spawnpoints isn't competitive. It's bypassing known rules to win at any means necessary, even when it's VERY OBVIOUSLY against the rules.

Jumped into this conversation in the middle. but I have to say your sentence reminded me of the greatest country in the world. USA.

"bypassing known rules to win at any means necessary."

I can't hate on such actions.

[radditsu]

Radditsu, and I am not trying to pick on him or anything, made a post about why kill a mob if its only got one thing someone might need? Well thats what a guild is right? People don't show up to raid based on the contigency that they are guranteed a chance for something for themselves from every mob.


I am putting my self out on these forums, I can be picked on!

I agree with this sentiment. It, however is one thing to do what you can for your guildies at times. It's another when a guild is already in a zone almost to maestro. Have groups port up from you guys. Then a necromancer who, honestly, is not doing with any sort of prompting from your leadership, flop a bunch of dudes on us while presumably pulling through. This example is not a flame bait! If you forgive me I can't 1000% prove this is what happened with fraps etc. Nor do I care to. The respectful thing would have not worried about this maestro in the first place. I now have this person on my friends list and am wary when I see him around however.

I am sure you guys thought the exact same thing at the draco kill. I was not at that particular fear raid so I can not prove/disprove anything about it. It may be a matter of our tactics differing from yours. It may be some sort of "f u" to the big bad tmo guild. In no way is it able to be proven, unless you guys have the ability to read everybody's guildchat, tells, and record all of ventrillo.

Everything is a two way street. We can kill anything outside of VP fairly easily. We have the numbers. Our mobilization is better than it was even a month ago. The casuals are catching up with the big boys because the content is late on timeline. Our Leadership is not interested in the number 1 status. If we were going to do that we would be claiming every target we can muster in these two weeks. We are trying to show everyone, with a tad bit of respect to each others tags, what the community needs to be better in the long run.

Any animosity between ex this and ex that can be checked at the door.

[Alarti0001]

The problem with this is, once again, a fictitious context.

Its very easy and also very ignorant to negate a statement without an explanation. Head to rnf where you belong.

[radditsu]

Not really. It might make some of the harde core raiders quit early. They, having done everything, get most of their enjoyment from cock blocking other guilds. The loot at this point is meaningless. Its more about proving that they are the alpha-nerds than anything else.

Take that away and many will lose interest fast.

Then the big bad casual guilds win! See what i did there ^_^

[Alarti0001]

I am putting my self out on these forums, I can be picked on!

I agree with this sentiment. It, however is one thing to do what you can for your guildies at times. It's another when a guild is already in a zone almost to maestro. Have groups port up from you guys. Then a necromancer who, honestly, is not doing with any sort of prompting from your leadership, flop a bunch of dudes on us while presumably pulling through. This example is not a flame bait! If you forgive me I can't 1000% prove this is what happened with fraps etc. Nor do I care to. The respectful thing would have not worried about this maestro in the first place. I now have this person on my friends list and am wary when I see him around however.

I am sure you guys thought the exact same thing at the draco kill. I was not at that particular fear raid so I can not prove/disprove anything about it. It may be a matter of our tactics differing from yours. It may be some sort of "f u" to the big bad tmo guild. In no way is it able to be proven, unless you guys have the ability to read everybody's guildchat, tells, and record all of ventrillo.

Everything is a two way street. We can kill anything outside of VP fairly easily. We have the numbers. Our mobilization is better than it was even a month ago. The casuals are catching up with the big boys because the content is late on timeline. Our Leadership is not interested in the number 1 status. If we were going to do that we would be claiming every target we can muster in these two weeks. We are trying to show everyone, with a tad bit of respect to each others tags, what the community needs to be better in the long run.

Any animosity between ex this and ex that can be checked at the door.

That necromancer had the maestro pulled however he ....DIED....not flopped. The problem here is vitriol causes people to assume what happened. The necro got stunned then raped.

Some guild was also in the direct pull path, there is a reason why guild have established pull camps to church, zone in, or other locs for years now.

[Kevlar]

Then the big bad casual guilds win! See what i did there ^_^

Its just competition was always what made EQ great. Kill stealing the orc trainer or cock blocking guilds from elemetals by perma farming RZtW, its what made EQ what it was, for good or for bad. Take that away and instance everything and you are just playing a crappier version of WOW.

[finalgrunt]

Its just competition was always what made EQ great. Kill stealing the orc trainer or cock blocking guilds from elemetals by perma farming RZtW, its what made EQ what it was, for good or for bad. Take that away and instance everything and you are just playing a crappier version of WOW.

Wrong, it's what made it great to you, not to us. Don't speak on behalf of us please. There is a middle ground between 24/7 competition and WoW. It has existed, no need to reinvent the wheel or pretend it never happened.

[radditsu]

He did die that is true. The point i am making that it should not have even been attempted. We were on the last two mobs from the cubby. Then we got a whole bunch of other stuff on us. Maestro tapping us all the while until he pathed through, presumably with a second tag. So we were unprepared for him coming through, half our raid got hit with a lifetap, enchanters scrambling to mez mobs, tanks occupied, etc. All because we casuals did not know about some sort of established pull camp that seems suspect at best. Wonder how those pull paths are going to work with the new aggro in hate. Looks like it will have to be re-established anyway.

If the shoe was on the other foot. What would you guys think? I would really think you guys are jerks.

It's a two way street. Apparently now people are also recording this stuff. So we can either do this tic for tac raid ban crap. If you guys really wanted to or desired to, I am sure you guys will find some sort of infraction to how we pull a bee in sky or something.

Otherwise lets give each other a break with this stuff.

[sedrie.bellamie]

how to get raid mobs

1) get tracker on or near the spawn
2) set up Twitter, Google, or whatever so you can "batphone" your guild
3) get you guild to show up when the batphone goes out
4) kill the raid target

I think what people want is

1) Raid targets left alone until a predetermined guild gets to kill it (ala ragefire)

What you guys should do is what TMO does. Track raid mobs, be willing to show up for them, and not complain when you get out mobilized. I am sure you are saying, "but TMO complains all the time." If you guys would show up for a raid targets you would get so much more respect then when you don't and complain about loot.

[radditsu]

how to get raid mobs

1) get tracker on or near the spawn
2) set up Twitter, Google, or whatever so you can "batphone" your guild
3) get you guild to show up when the batphone goes out
4) kill the raid target

I think what people want is

1) Raid targets left alone until a predetermined guild gets to kill it (ala ragefire)

What you guys should do is what TMO does. Track raid mobs, be willing to show up for them, and not complain when you get out mobilized. I am sure you are saying, "but TMO complains all the time." If you guys would show up for a raid targets you would get so much more respect then when you don't and complain about loot.

For bda
1. check
2. check
3. check
4. check but you beat us to the punch more often than not. But we are getting closer.


The system as it stands means this is mostly a 1 or 2 horse race at the very best. Due to how these things "spread out" over a long server cycle uptime. We see sev monday, tal tuesday, ct and inny maybe wednesday, at 3-5 am type times. On live that was prime Euro pickens.

[Alarti0001]

He did die that is true. The point i am making that it should not have even been attempted. We were on the last two mobs from the cubby. Then we got a whole bunch of other stuff on us. Maestro tapping us all the while until he pathed through, presumably with a second tag. So we were unprepared for him coming through, half our raid got hit with a lifetap, enchanters scrambling to mez mobs, tanks occupied, etc. All because we casuals did not know about some sort of established pull camp that seems suspect at best. Wonder how those pull paths are going to work with the new aggro in hate. Looks like it will have to be re-established anyway.

If the shoe was on the other foot. What would you guys think? I would really think you guys are jerks.

It's a two way street. Apparently now people are also recording this stuff. So we can either do this tic for tac raid ban crap. If you guys really wanted to or desired to, I am sure you guys will find some sort of infraction to how we pull a bee in sky or something.

Otherwise lets give each other a break with this stuff.

Not to belabor the point, but TMO wouldn't have set up in that position to avoid a pull through

You dont need to know about which established point but it is fairly common sense to not be set up in "high traffic" pathways.

[radditsu]

Not to belabor the point, but TMO wouldn't have set up in that position to avoid a pull through

You dont need to know about which established point but it is fairly common sense to not be set up in "high traffic" pathways.

I get the point. We were moving out of the "high traffic" pathway into the "nice firm little cubbyhole", in about 20 seconds. I am sure we did not think you would pull maestro through the abject mess that was left inside of his spawnpoint. Like 3-4 golems are in there right?

[Lazortag]

how to get raid mobs

1) get tracker on or near the spawn
2) set up Twitter, Google, or whatever so you can "batphone" your guild
3) get you guild to show up when the batphone goes out
4) kill the raid target

I think what people want is

1) Raid targets left alone until a predetermined guild gets to kill it (ala ragefire)

What you guys should do is what TMO does. Track raid mobs, be willing to show up for them, and not complain when you get out mobilized. I am sure you are saying, "but TMO complains all the time." If you guys would show up for a raid targets you would get so much more respect then when you don't and complain about loot.

I don't really see the need for you to act rude and condescending just because you're woefully out of touch with how casual guilds do things. Most other people from your guild seem to understand this, but you don't - you insist on assuming that casual players are all inept at this game and you're somehow god's gift to eq. Our guild is fairly prepared and has trackers in place for most of the targets we prioritize. We keep track of TOD's when we know them. The main problem is getting people to devote unreasonable amounts of time to tracking, which wasn't required on Live, because 96 hour variances for raid mobs didn't exist on Live. Still we try to work within the system even though the current ruleset is absurd (thankfully Nilbog has said he plans to fix this, so we'll see if things improve). I want to ask, why is there such a monopoly at the high end of this server when there wasn't on most Live servers? Do you think it's because casual guilds on p99 just happen to suck more than the ones on Live? If you have two different stimuli and two different responses, then the differences in your responses are probably due to the differences in your stimuli. The main difference between Live and p99 is the time investment required to compete. Put 2 and 2 together instead of assuming that all we want are handouts - we don't, we want to compete, we just want to compete under reasonable terms (ie, not having to drop out of school or quit our jobs just for a chance at pixels).

[Alarti0001]

I don't really see the need for you to act rude and condescending just because you're woefully out of touch with how casual guilds do things. Most other people from your guild seem to understand this, but you don't - you insist on assuming that casual players are all inept at this game and you're somehow god's gift to eq. Our guild is fairly prepared and has trackers in place for most of the targets we prioritize. We keep track of TOD's when we know them. The main problem is getting people to devote unreasonable amounts of time to tracking, which wasn't required on Live, because 96 hour variances for raid mobs didn't exist on Live. Still we try to work within the system even though the current ruleset is absurd (thankfully Nilbog has said he plans to fix this, so we'll see if things improve). I want to ask, why is there such a monopoly at the high end of this server when there wasn't on most Live servers? Do you think it's because casual guilds on p99 just happen to suck more than the ones on Live? If you have two different stimuli and two different responses, then the differences in your responses are probably due to the differences in your stimuli. The main difference between Live and p99 is the time investment required to compete. Put 2 and 2 together instead of assuming that all we want are handouts - we don't, we want to compete, we just want to compete under reasonable terms (ie, not having to drop out of school or quit our jobs just for a chance at pixels).

You want someone to understand you tne you typecast others? Most of TMO works, attends colleges, has g/f's or kids.

[achtung]

On live expansion came out and top guilds moved on. On P99 the content supply is very much insufficient to the level of demand from people who want to raid things. Bring on Velious and you shall see outdoor dragons etc left up for other guilds. Seems kinda obv.

Also why is Vox still up after like 5 days. Waste of content.

[Relapse1]

That necromancer had the maestro pulled however he ....DIED....not flopped. The problem here is vitriol causes people to assume what happened. The necro got stunned then raped.

Some guild was also in the direct pull path, there is a reason why guild have established pull camps to church, zone in, or other locs for years now.

A gm should of stepped in and fixed the pulling of meastro to the zone long ago just like they fixed pulling VS to the zone. You guys porting up after they were clearly clearing for it to only train them with your such "awseome Eq skills" is pretty pathetic.

[Silentone]

He did die that is true. The point i am making that it should not have even been attempted. We were on the last two mobs from the cubby. Then we got a whole bunch of other stuff on us. Maestro tapping us all the while until he pathed through, presumably with a second tag. So we were unprepared for him coming through, half our raid got hit with a lifetap, enchanters scrambling to mez mobs, tanks occupied, etc. All because we casuals did not know about some sort of established pull camp that seems suspect at best. Wonder how those pull paths are going to work with the new aggro in hate. Looks like it will have to be re-established anyway.

If the shoe was on the other foot. What would you guys think? I would really think you guys are jerks.

It's a two way street. Apparently now people are also recording this stuff. So we can either do this tic for tac raid ban crap. If you guys really wanted to or desired to, I am sure you guys will find some sort of infraction to how we pull a bee in sky or something.

Otherwise lets give each other a break with this stuff.

We did and this is why we didn’t argue the Draco pull. If we wanted to go down the path of fraps and petitions we would have frapsed what happened with the Draco pull, we didn’t because we were actually happy BDA was fighting for a mob. In return we ate a 2 week ban for a similar infraction.

[Lazortag]

You want someone to understand you tne you typecast others? Most of TMO works, attends colleges, has g/f's or kids.

I wasn't saying otherwise. I was just exaggerating about the amount of time that raiding demands on this server. One line of my post shouldn't discredit the rest of what I said, nor should it make it acceptable for your members to be blatantly rude and stereotype all casual players as being unskilled at eq.

[finalgrunt]

On live expansion came out and top guilds moved on. On P99 the content supply is very much insufficient to the level of demand from people who want to raid things. Bring on Velious and you shall see outdoor dragons etc left up for other guilds. Seems kinda obv.

Also why is Vox still up after like 5 days. Waste of content.

Kunark was said to cure the classic content issues. Velious will not cure the raid scene. Check Fippy Darkpaw's history here: http://www.fippydarkpaw.com/news/show/517883

[Alarti0001]

Kunark was said to cure the classic content issues. Velious will not cure the raid scene. Check Fippy Darkpaw's history here: http://www.fippydarkpaw.com/news/show/517883

To compare kunark to velious is asinine just like comparting fippy to classic is asinine. Velious more than triples the current raid content. That is just number of mobs it does well more than triple the time invested per raid

[Ambrotos]

Not to belabor the point, but TMO wouldn't have set up in that position to avoid a pull through

You dont need to know about which established point but it is fairly common sense to not be set up in "high traffic" pathways.

That necromancer had the maestro pulled however he ....DIED....not flopped. The problem here is vitriol causes people to assume what happened. The necro got stunned then raped.

Some guild was also in the direct pull path, there is a reason why guild have established pull camps to church, zone in, or other locs for years now.

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showpost.php?p=614444&postcount=2
Training
Training can be defined as the intentional manipulation of NPC Placement and Aggro in such a way that causes it to attack another player that it wouldn't have otherwise if at it's normal spawn location. The most basic form of this is "dumping" mobs near another player or party and escaping via a form of teleportation or death. Intentional or not, this is against the rules. This rule is not limited to the basic example given, as there are many different forms of training players will use. You take all responsibility for mobs that you aggro. If you are trying to escape from a pack of NPC's but there is another group in your way, do not run through them. Even if your intention is not to train them, it would inevitable cause this and you may be subject to disciplinary. It is recommended that you take the death (Your responsibility for aggroing the mobs) and request a resurrection from nearby players.

If you happen to accidentally train a group of players, please immedietely notify the staff via /petition that you have done so by accident. Apologize to the players in question, and assist them with any recovery needed. If the staff hears about your train before you tell them, intention is no longer an excuse. (Repeated unintentional trains will still result in disciplinary action).

It's pretty clear to me. All guilds need to learn the rules. Don't even attempt to rule lawyer. The example of pulling Maestro though an another guild, being killed and training them is not permitted.

[sedrie.bellamie]

The main problem is getting people to devote unreasonable amounts of time to tracking, which wasn't required on Live, because 96 hour variances for raid mobs didn't exist on Live. Still we try to work within the system even though the current ruleset is absurd (thankfully Nilbog has said he plans to fix this, so we'll see if things improve).

The way i see this is; TMO did what was required to become the premier raiding guild and no one else wants to do that. Now what I am reading is that no other guild wants do the same work but want the same rewards.

It sucks having to track a raid mob all week, but it is awesome getting the loot. If you want something hard enough you will work for it.

[Lazortag]

The way i see this is; TMO did what was required to become the premier raiding guild and no one else wants to do that. Now what I am reading is that no other guild wants do the same work but want the same rewards.

It sucks having to track a raid mob all week, but it is awesome getting the loot. If you want something hard enough you will work for it.

My point is that your definition of "working for it" asks for markedly more commitment than what was needed in 1999-2001. As for the rest of your post, we do what we can to compete within the system but people get discouraged because of how much time is demanded. I don't fault TMO for doing what they did to stay at the top so long as no rules were broken, I'm just explaining why casual guilds don't have more success on this server.

[Relapse1]

A gm should of stepped in and fixed the pulling of meastro to the zone long ago just like they fixed pulling VS to the zone. You guys porting up after they were clearly clearing for it to only train them with your such "awseome Eq skills" is pretty pathetic.



It's pretty clear to me. All guilds need to learn the rules. Don't even attempt to rule lawyer. The example of pulling Maestro though an another guild, being killed and training them is not permitted.

[Grumble]

Wow. Did this thread ever derail from the original topic from how to get people to return, to the elite guild members fighting among each other.

None of the argument of what's happening among the elites is going to do a thing to get people to return.

[finalgrunt]

To compare kunark to velious is asinine just like comparting fippy to classic is asinine. Velious more than triples the current raid content. That is just number of mobs it does well more than triple the time invested per raid

Please, go into details as to why it would be any different on p99 than on Fippy, since obviously unlocking content (even faster) did not prevent insane competition even on old world mobs to the point GM tried to enforce rotations (dumb ones though, which didn't prevent cockblocking). Don't pretend that a small guild, tracking 1 target once Velious is out will go without spying / batphoning / training & leap frogging, because it's what the current "competition" tries to enforce on the server. And guilds shouldn't have to grow a roster big enough (or with people willing to play enough) to cover any time of the day to make sure there are enough to kill a target when it spawns. It's not because you can do it yourself, that it should be the case. Or I've clearly misunderstood the purpose of this emu server.

The way i see this is; TMO did what was required to become the premier raiding guild and no one else wants to do that. Now what I am reading is that no other guild wants do the same work but want the same rewards.

It sucks having to track a raid mob all week, but it is awesome getting the loot. If you want something hard enough you will work for it.

Unless you've skipped the whole discussion, we're debating the "how hard it should be" part. 24/7 is retarded and not classic.

[Artah]

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showpost.php?p=614444&postcount=2


It's pretty clear to me. All guilds need to learn the rules. Don't even attempt to rule lawyer. The example of pulling Maestro though an another guild, being killed and training them is not permitted.

Not trolling or anything like that, just a question so that I have the rules straight in my head.

So if TMO brought the raid in between the BDA camp and Draco in Fear then it would have been ok for TMO to have claim on the kill? If that's true then that's where TMO screwed up.

Who ported up to hate first? If TMO ported up first then BDA ported up after and then ran between zone-in and Maestro then it would be the same thing if TMO zoned into fear and blocked the path between the BDA raid and Draco. Someone confirm?

[Ambrotos]

Not trolling or anything like that, just a question so that I have the rules straight in my head.

So if TMO brought the raid in between the BDA camp and Draco in Fear then it would have been ok for TMO to have claim on the kill? If that's true then that's where TMO screwed up.

Who ported up to hate first? If TMO ported up first then BDA ported up after and then ran between zone-in and Maestro then it would be the same thing if TMO zoned into fear and blocked the path between the BDA raid and Draco. Someone confirm?

A train is a train. No matter who what when or where. Just go by the simple idea of don't even put yourself in the situation that could train someone. Porting up or zoning in somewhere has nothing to do with it. It has to do with 1 member of your guild, pulling Maestro and all his room on top of another guild and being killed. Who is to say he did it on purpose or not, the effect is still the same. A rule was broken.

I have made a post that will clear up any other issues in Hate.

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=77127

As for Draco or Cazic in fear. Training them around with the entire zone on them doesn't give you FTE. In the past there have been mixed rulings on the situation. I'm making it clear now. Do don't train them around. Yes I am aware of how Cazic summons the zone to him. There will be no pre kite of npcs before this fight. You will either have to clear as much as you can, or fight,stun,fear npcs as they agro.

[sedrie.bellamie]

Wow. Did this thread ever derail from the original topic from how to get people to return, to the elite guild members fighting among each other.

None of the argument of what's happening among the elites is going to do a thing to get people to return.

sorry be one of the de-railers

1) the xp bonus did up the numbers of players on the server; I think that if there is a slight xp bonus year round, that would help people with the grind and thus make the game either more enjoyable or one would get more return for their time. I would even be down to have "hot zones" that rotate. Like this week the Hot Zones are KC and Unrest, next week hot zones are HS and Mistmore, then another week is Old Seb and Sol b. This would kinda focus the player base and make it easy for people looking to level up. (ninja edit: hot zones could be 1) high end dungeon 2) low level dungeon and 3) an outside zone that is good for almost all levels -- this would give ample places for people to gather and level)

2) GM events: I know some people are really interested in BOB and are getting ready by collecting clickies (which I dont think are going to be allowed) and practice jousting.

3) I remember when the Hole was added to p99, that was a busy weekend in the Hole. I think at one point there were 6 diff groups xp'ing in the Hole. The Hole has some nice caster gear, both INT and WIS, and those shoulders for the right race have great reisists. So what I am saying here is more content brings in people back. When were the Warrens added on live?

basically I want more xp and more zones to level in. Give me velious and take away hybrid penalties and I would be a happy camper.

[radditsu]

Wow. Did this thread ever derail from the original topic from how to get people to return, to the elite guild members fighting among each other.

None of the argument of what's happening among the elites is going to do a thing to get people to return.

I think this is a productive open dialogue. I am not accusing anybody of anything intentional. I am having an open dialogue with the most active people on these forums about what presumably is what i hope is going to grow into a respect between two philosophies. In hopes that people who read this will understand that the "hatred" is pretty much unfounded. That is building a community dialogue.

We all have made suggestions that would give positive enhancement to our project 1999 experience. If you do not mind doing a little digging. I think that TMO guys made some really interesting suggestions. Especially shorter variance (that they server side would have to implement) and raiding tiers (that we could as a community develop). Will everybody be happy? Of course not! That's compromise, or "flexing nuts" as I said earlier.

The topic has veered a little off course, as forums often do. Any and all suggestions are still much appreciated. As long as it does not turn into any sort of baiting.

[SirAlvarex]

Everyone seems to be caught up in the raiding aspect, when I think the real issue is that no one is around at the lower levels. It's hard to get new people to play when those new people have no one else to play with. Some come with friends, but a lot are just trying to relive the memories and group up at the lower tier.

Heck, when there was around 1k people peak the lower tier was really fun because you could get groups within 30 minutes between 10-30. Now I see almost no one on at all in that range.

So the question would then be, what would bring back the lower level people? Only non-classic things would really do. Global chats, faster XP, easier mobs, hotzones, etc have been mentioned, and I think it's a start. These were added in to later expansions for a reason, and that's because new people just stopped joining.

I don't know if those "non-classic" solutions will fly here, but hopefully something can be figured out before the server is reduced to 50 people at peak hours...

[radditsu]

Everyone seems to be caught up in the raiding aspect, when I think the real issue is that no one is around at the lower levels. It's hard to get new people to play when those new people have no one else to play with. Some come with friends, but a lot are just trying to relive the memories and group up at the lower tier.

Heck, when there was around 1k people peak the lower tier was really fun because you could get groups within 30 minutes between 10-30. Now I see almost no one on at all in that range.

So the question would then be, what would bring back the lower level people? Only non-classic things would really do. Global chats, faster XP, easier mobs, hotzones, etc have been mentioned, and I think it's a start. These were added in to later expansions for a reason, and that's because new people just stopped joining.

I don't know if those "non-classic" solutions will fly here, but hopefully something can be figured out before the server is reduced to 50 people at peak hours...

I actually just started leveling on the server at the end of January. I made it a point to engage anybody who was lfg in a few zones. I found 4-5 good people that I leveled up to 40 with. Unfortunately the glue of the group stopped playing and the rest started logging in less and less. I had to do most of the rest soloing. Which is unfortunate. What I am not seeing is groups in solb/guk anymore. I ground out level 58 Soloing LDC's. That should have not been an option due to population. Now that I am leveling a shadowknight (14) I have not seen anybody leveling in the same fashion. Maybe the weapon skill hurt us that bad in the short term, combined with the D3 release. I really loved velious's 35+ dungeons. I loved Crystal Caverns "back in the day". Exp seemed a little faster.

The hybrid penalty really hurts people wanting to go with paladins and rangers. Along with the stigma of playing these classes. Sk's can get a pass a lot due to their excellent aggro generation. But I am seeing a bunch of them grind up to about 55 and quitting. Without a 40% penalty they would be near the top of that final hump. Maybe creating just a global lfg channel, or enabling of the lfg tool would be a good idea. People seem to like alts to go /role or /anon. The hybrid penalty would be on an faster timeline than classic. But due to velious being postponed it would not be outside of the "real life" time frame.


Also I hear that Full Circle guild is doing big things at the lowbie level.

[radditsu]

Not trolling or anything like that, just a question so that I have the rules straight in my head.

So if TMO brought the raid in between the BDA camp and Draco in Fear then it would have been ok for TMO to have claim on the kill? If that's true then that's where TMO screwed up.

Who ported up to hate first? If TMO ported up first then BDA ported up after and then ran between zone-in and Maestro then it would be the same thing if TMO zoned into fear and blocked the path between the BDA raid and Draco. Someone confirm?

Kinda want to be over and done with this example but we were in the zone farming gear already. It was just an example and I did not want it to get turned into some "anti-TMO" ammo. I like the fact that the Ambrotos gave us some clarification on what can or cannot be done in these situations. It may prevent this stuff in the future, on both ends.

[Danyelle]

Putting in non-"Classic" changes is a conflicted and complicated area.

There are many different things that were put into the game post-Velious/Luclin that were "necessary" changes. Many people would think they were put in to casualize the game and remove the challenge or immersion. In fact they were put in to eliminate needless headaches. Examples off the top of my head are the LFG tool, removal of steep hybrid penalties, Guild manager tool, raid manager tool, buff section of pet window, mana display, xp percentage display. zoning pets, pets not dying on invis/hide, chat channels, etc. People often confuse these changes with changes that DID (based on opinion, yet it's usually universally agreed upon) ruin the challenge or immersion of the world of Norrath (PoK books, corpse summoners, soulbinders, map tool, etc).

Here's where the conflict comes into play. The server's, very obvious and heavily stated, goal is to create a server that emulates Live up to Velious exactly as best as possible barring unchangable client code (as is evidenced by things like re-implementing the bug where pets can proc rune swords on any mob not just summoned mobs). This is indeed a noble cause. However it conflicts with common sense in many areas. Some things about Classic EQ should have been changed from the start. Likewise certain later features also should have been in from the start, and there's a reason those things were put in later on as the developers realized it and came across the means to do it that they may not have had when the game was first released (who the hell wants to have to type "/who guild all" only to come back with a who list limited to a certain number of characters, that doesn't bypass anon/role? To be unable to manage a guild as precisely as you could with the manager? Tag alts for quick identification? Add notes to quickly see the flags/keys of a player in-game? This kind of thing didn't "ruin immersion". It fixed something that was implemented poorly from the start.)

Some people fear these changes. They wonder where the line ends on what should be put in and what shouldn't. Polls won't help determine that either. Put a poll up that says "should we put PoK books in" and most people won't be thinking of the immersion or the effect on porting classes, they'll be thinking of the saved time and platinum and vote "yes". Smudging the results. Others may blindly vote "no", out of anger, on anything for the sake of Classic. You'll never get results that truly display those "necessary changes". But at least it's a start.

I've always believed, Red should either be taken down, or a third server put up. At least once Velious goes live. One stays stagnant at Velious, maybe wipes and rerolls every year or two. The other, rebuilds expansions from Luclin+ in a Classic way. Adding in those "necessary features" as agreed upon by the community, and taking out the ones that ultimately put the knife in Classic's back. To please everyone. Of course a 3rd server would cost money (hence the taking down Red part), they would also need to pick up more developers and Guides. But I think if it could be accomplished it'd be worth it.

I know in my heart it will never happen though. :(

[Slave]

I like the fact that the Ambrotos gave us some clarification on what can or cannot be done in these situations. It may prevent this stuff in the future, on both ends.

To say you cannot train away mobs, that sets a very new and dangerous precedent. It may make it simpler to settle certain disputes but it takes a lot of power away from the players, and the smaller guilds more than the big ones. Under that ruleset, there are only two guilds that will ever be able to kill Cazic-Thule in the foreseeable future.

[sanluen]

To say you cannot train away mobs, that sets a very new and dangerous precedent. It may make it simpler to settle certain disputes but it takes a lot of power away from the players, and the smaller guilds more than the big ones. Under that ruleset, there are only two guilds that will ever be able to kill Cazic-Thule in the foreseeable future.

I think it takes fewer people to clear the zone and kill CT than it does to kite the zone and burn CT down quickly.

But it will be interesting to see how things change!

[YendorLootmonkey]

I understand you don't hate the guys who left BDA for us.
But some of your guild does, some of the VD guys too.
Yendor ESPECIALLY.


Yup, I'm big on loyalty, and not a fan of guildmates betraying their friends to go get pixels more easily in the guild that's currently monopolizing the content (and then trying to recruit others to follow them, by the way).

Besides, I feel that the pixels mean a lot more when you earn them with the guild you grew up in. Unfortunately, I don't have that option anymore, but I was able to find a new home with many of the people I raided and had fun with, and have the opportunity to interact with a new group of people as well.

And I don't *hate* the people who left BDA for your guild. I didn't know them well enough, anyway. I'm just disappointed in the lack of loyalty that was displayed. Ironically, loyalty is the same quality that TMO displays for their membership in creating the infrastructure to mobilize quick and monopolize the raid content that I admire.

I can admire it, but I don't have to like it. :)

[radditsu]

I think it takes fewer people to clear the zone and kill CT than it does to kite the zone and burn CT down quickly.

But it will be interesting to see how things change!

Agreed, any decent guild can clear fear just as quickly as anybody else with good coordination. Also a few ae pulls will thin the herd out and make the job easier. Its very doable.

[Slave]

I don't think you guys understand. Killing everything doesn't give you rights to CT, it just makes it easier for the extremely large guild with the batphone to come in and take him off your little hands. Ambrotos is perhaps unintentionally taking away one of the few tactics that would allow a smaller force to defeat him.

[Splorf22]

Random idea: clean out all the namesquatters. Was hanging out in EC and half the people have misspelled names like Warrsaw or Griffthh. The problem is that tons of people have way to many L1 toons reserving names they will never play. Suggested script:

remove any char unless:
played >= 1 day
level >= 5
pp >= 1000
most-recent-login <= 1 week
played sessions > 10

Also, I totally agree with Giegue. I'm not going to say EQ doesn't have a lot of strategy, but all those strategies are known. It isn't that TMO is the only guild that figured out how to use cell phones, its that some of us don't want to spend all day tied to our computers. But I've had that flamewar before.

[radditsu]

I don't think you guys understand. Killing everything doesn't give you rights to CT, it just makes it easier for the extremely large guild with the batphone to come in and take him off your little hands. Ambrotos is perhaps unintentionally taking away one of the few tactics that would allow a smaller force to defeat him.

Yeah but it would be the right thing to do for the guild that cleared fear to at least get a stab at it. If they fail, they are not going to get another shot. I know BDA would not pull CT through Divinity, for example, if they had cleared the zone ahead of us. It could be considered similar to pulling a mob through a raid. Unless the plane is empty its going to be a train. Its going to train whomever else is the zone. Stated above training for any reason is against the rules.

I will admit it will get murky when each guild gets relatively close together pulling a similar amount of mobs. Maybe then a FTE ruling goes down? Any other ideas?

[Danyelle]

Random idea: clean out all the namesquatters. Was hanging out in EC and half the people have misspelled names like Warrsaw or Griffthh. The problem is that tons of people have way to many L1 toons reserving names they will never play. Suggested script:

remove any char unless:
played >= 1 day
level >= 5
pp >= 1000
most-recent-login <= 1 week
played sessions > 10

Also, I totally agree with Giegue. I'm not going to say EQ doesn't have a lot of strategy, but all those strategies are known. It isn't that TMO is the only guild that figured out how to use cell phones, its that some of us don't want to spend all day tied to our computers. But I've had that flamewar before.

The pp >= 1000 one is a very very very very VERY bad idea lol. A completely legitimate level 60 toon that's been here since P99 started could blow all his/her plat on something, be completely broke, and get deleted for it. Rest aren't that dangerous though.

[Splorf22]

I suppose it wasn't clear, but I was thinking delete unless any one of those conditions was true, not unless all of them are true. I really doubt there is even a single legitimate character that doesn't satisfy at least one of those.

[Ambrotos]

Yeah but it would be the right thing to do for the guild that cleared fear to at least get a stab at it. If they fail, they are not going to get another shot. I know BDA would not pull CT through Divinity, for example, if they had cleared the zone ahead of us. It could be considered similar to pulling a mob through a raid. Unless the plane is empty its going to be a train. Its going to train whomever else is the zone. Stated above training for any reason is against the rules.

I will admit it will get murky when each guild gets relatively close together pulling a similar amount of mobs. Maybe then a FTE ruling goes down? Any other ideas?



There are a few reasons as to why this is with Cazic. Mainly #1
1) He will warp under the ground when too many npcs are being kited. Seen it, been there and done that. Was a mess to res everyone. It doesn't matter if its a large guild or small guild.
2) Attacking him out right, and not kiting it around is done more often than not, and doesn't desync the zone.
3) Lowers the chance of a Guild training everything around and having it wipe the other guild racing them for it. History shows Guilds have done this, and trained other guilds. Thus the playerbase is the one causing this enforcement.

If people think kiting it around with the 90% chance of cazic warping underground is blocking smaller guilds from doing cazic, you are wrong. This isn't intended to help any guild have the upper hand. It's intended to keep a encounter from bugging out and training the entire zone onto everyone.

[pojab]

enable pvp in fearplane, hateplane, vp. mobs ffa. problem solved.

[Zionized]

Stopping thetinfoiling on the forums would go a long way to not make me feel like im gonna waste 500 hours on this server get to 60, get some decent gear to raid and then have to endure countless hours of bitching and drama.

[Kevlar]

Stopping thetinfoiling on the forums would go a long way to not make me feel like im gonna waste 500 hours on this server get to 60, get some decent gear to raid and then have to endure countless hours of bitching and drama.

You get that impression too? Kinda sad the devs and gms put so much time into the project only to have players shit all over it at the end.

[gnomishfirework]

release legacy of ykesha.

[Alarti0001]

Yup, I'm big on loyalty, and not a fan of guildmates betraying their friends to go get pixels more easily in the guild that's currently monopolizing the content (and then trying to recruit others to follow them, by the way).

Besides, I feel that the pixels mean a lot more when you earn them with the guild you grew up in. Unfortunately, I don't have that option anymore, but I was able to find a new home with many of the people I raided and had fun with, and have the opportunity to interact with a new group of people as well.

And I don't *hate* the people who left BDA for your guild. I didn't know them well enough, anyway. I'm just disappointed in the lack of loyalty that was displayed. Ironically, loyalty is the same quality that TMO displays for their membership in creating the infrastructure to mobilize quick and monopolize the raid content that I admire.

I can admire it, but I don't have to like it. :)


haha ok buddy i read your posts :P
deny it all you want

[Alarti0001]

There are a few reasons as to why this is with Cazic. Mainly #1
1) He will warp under the ground when too many npcs are being kited. Seen it, been there and done that. Was a mess to res everyone. It doesn't matter if its a large guild or small guild.
2) Attacking him out right, and not kiting it around is done more often than not, and doesn't desync the zone.
3) Lowers the chance of a Guild training everything around and having it wipe the other guild racing them for it. History shows Guilds have done this, and trained other guilds. Thus the playerbase is the one causing this enforcement.

If people think kiting it around with the 90% chance of cazic warping underground is blocking smaller guilds from doing cazic, you are wrong. This isn't intended to help any guild have the upper hand. It's intended to keep a encounter from bugging out and training the entire zone onto everyone.

Being in the guild who has been the sole killer of Cazic for months. He has never warped for us so your 90% statistic seems a bit skewed...like 90% skewed.

[Ambrotos]

I said when there were more than 1 guild doing it. I've been there and had to watch. The server is here for more than one guild, and there will be other than one guild there sooner than later.

Like I said the players can come up with something different, and if it makes sense I'm all for it. Otherwise this will be it.

[Alarti0001]

Kunark was said to cure the classic content issues. Velious will not cure the raid scene. Check Fippy Darkpaw's history here: http://www.fippydarkpaw.com/news/show/517883

I said when there were more than 1 guild doing it. I've been there and had to watch. The server is here for more than one guild, and there will be other than one guild there sooner than later.

Like I said the players can come up with something different, and if it makes sense I'm all for it. Otherwise this will be it.

I wal also part of the guild that was there with multiple guilds in fear, over 100 in zone many times and I don't remember any ct under the zones.
I made an earlier post about repops as a suggestion tho

[radditsu]

I wal also part of the guild that was there with multiple guilds in fear, over 100 in zone many times and I don't remember any ct under the zones.
I made an earlier post about repops as a suggestion tho



Wouldn't 100 people in the zone when draco is being killed and kited cause the same issues as CT? I mean not 100% sure with this but you would think if there is a giant train and 2 guilds in the zone a Draco could fall under just as easy. I am also sure you guys notice that some normal mobs fall through randomly from time to time.

[Alarti0001]

Wouldn't 100 people in the zone when draco is being killed and kited cause the same issues as CT? I mean not 100% sure with this but you would think if there is a giant train and 2 guilds in the zone a Draco could fall under just as easy. I am also sure you guys notice that some normal mobs fall through randomly from time to time.

the main problem you get with that many in fear is the zone desyncing...its highly annoying

[Stealin Dragons]

Wouldn't 100 people in the zone when draco is being killed and kited cause the same issues as CT? I mean not 100% sure with this but you would think if there is a giant train and 2 guilds in the zone a Draco could fall under just as easy. I am also sure you guys notice that some normal mobs fall through randomly from time to time.

I've never seen CT fall under, that I can remember, and I've seen him kited all over fear by IB during a wipe. However, people have reported him going outside of the invisible zone lines during desyncs so I assume it's possible they've seen him go under the zone while desyncing as well.

90% of the time during CT raids that i've seen he just falls to the ground, not through it.

[radditsu]

release legacy of ykesha.

kinda curious about this? Just for the frogs?

[Danyelle]

kinda curious about this? Just for the frogs?

I'd want it for the ability to use custom armor dye alone. They can keep the Frogs/zones if they want, but screw this "7 types of different dyed armor making you look like a clown on crack that you will never get to change" crap :P

[radditsu]

I'd want it for the ability to use custom armor dye alone. They can keep the Frogs/zones if they want, but screw this "7 types of different dyed armor making you look like a clown on crack that you will never get to change" crap :P

I did love the armor dyes, All silver baby. Gleaming white Shadowknight on live!

[Relapse1]

I wal also part of the guild that was there with multiple guilds in fear, over 100 in zone many times and I don't remember any ct under the zones.
I made an earlier post about repops as a suggestion tho

CT bugged out lots after epics were released. Zone would desync every time as well after epics was a common thing Tmo liked to do .


I love how you play dumb tho

[Alarti0001]

CT bugged out lots after epics were released. Zone would desync every time as well after epics was a common thing Tmo liked to do .


I love how you play dumb tho

I love how you lie and make assertions without evidence...keep it up!

[Relapse1]

I love how you lie and make assertions without evidence...keep it up!

I love how you always try an be a lawyer. Everyone that fought CT against your exploit/train/kite/Rmt/ 3 raid suspension guild knows exactly what was happening even the GM's

[Zereh]

I said when there were more than 1 guild doing it. I've been there and had to watch. The server is here for more than one guild, and there will be other than one guild there sooner than later.

Like I said the players can come up with something different, and if it makes sense I'm all for it. Otherwise this will be it.

If there is some grand vision of how the GMs want the raid scene to operate it should be published.

[Alarti0001]

I love how you lie and make assertions without evidence...keep it up!

[Zionized]

You get that impression too? Kinda sad the devs and gms put so much time into the project only to have players shit all over it at the end.

Yeah. I just stopped playing in an effort to not waste much time. And whenever I feel like playing again, I just come read here 15 minutes and it kills the pain.

Good times!