How would have YOU made each class?

[porigromus]

I was reading over some old threads discussing class weaknesses and strengths and it was fun to dream what would I fix if I was making Everquest 2.0. Below I have posted someone's view of each class at the end of Velious and right below each of their description of the classes I started listing custom AAs I think would improve a class. I started with the Warrior and the Paladin.

I would like to improve the warrior's DPS role if he isn't main tanking in a raid or group and also improve his tanking role as well, to allow him to no rely on proc weapons to tank. For the paladin I envision him still in a hybrid role allowing him to be one of the prefered hybrid tanks for secondary targets as well as improving either his dps or healing to a moderate level.

I would like to see what YOU would do with custom AAs for each class to improve Everquest. Would you continue to provide each class a needed desired role if they have one already or create one for classes that do not or would you try to allow everyone to do everything like WoWs approach currently? (I have to say I don't like that approach) Let's see it!


greatdane07-28-2011, 07:40 PM
Warriors: the "king of tanking" thing had very little to do with the fact that warriors have slightly better tanking skills and HP. There's not much of a difference stat-wise between a warrior and a knight in equivalent gear. It all boiled down to the defensive discipline which was absolutely necessary for any kind of raiding that you didn't vastly out-gear. Velious brings mobs like AoW and Vindi that can hit for thousands per round and/or are unslowable, and you just couldn't tank that without warrior discs. There were mobs that hybrids could never tank, and to tank even the easier raid targets required the hybrid to be far beyond it in gear.

Warrior Custom AAs:

DPS Custom AAs:

Ignoring Defence to Focus on Offense - Increase DPS xN when Duel Wielding or Wielding 2hd Weapon (negative affect, AC less effective while Duel Wielding or Wielding 2hd Weapon)
Sunder Kick (debuff) - Each kick reduces mob AC, stacks x10
Triple Attack - When Duel Wield or 2hd Weapon, chance of Triple Attack
Mastery of N (N= Blunt, Slash, Piercing) - Increased Chance to Hit with Mastery

Tanking AAs:

Bunker Down - Increased AC xN when Wearing A Shield
Improved Bash/Slam - Each Bash/Slam increases mob hate, stacks x10
Cripple Kick - Each kick as a chance to snare mob
Improved Taunt - Forced focus on Warrior for N seconds and increases hate

Paladins/shadowknights: since Velious is almost purely an endgame expansion and the hybrid tanks only shine while leveling, they lose much of their appeal and serve mostly as off-tanks for the uncommon occasions where this is necessary. Not exactly useless like druids, but with an endgame-centric min-maxer playerbase like ours and the likelihood that Velious will be the final frontier for a very long time, it doesn't seem like knights will be in very high demand. They'd still be the best non-raid tanks due to their easy aggro, but I imagine most people will be done leveling by then.

Paladin Custom AAs:

Hybrid Tank/DPS AAs:

Improved Yaulp - The Yaulp line last N times longer, and greatly increases strength, armor class, and attack rating by N times more than previously (negative effect - healing spells cost N time as much while buffed)
Improved Symbols - Symbols provide N times more hitpoints than previously
Weapon Master - N times damage increase when wielding 2hd weapon

Hybrid Tank/Healer AAs:

Improved Symbols - Symbols provide N times more hitpoints than previously
Improved Lay on Hands - Reduced Cooldown by N amount, allowing more frequent use
Improved Healing - Healing Line of Spells Mana Cost Lowered by N and Effectiveness Increased by N
Rangers: this class will get progressively stronger with each of the first half-dozen expansions, but they don't become truly good until Luclin. In Velious, rangers are alright DPS with some alright utility, and their saving grace is the weaponshield discipline which can be used to great effect on raids. Due to its very long duration, a ranger would aggro the mob and pop the disc, tanking it safely for 18 seconds while the main tank generates as much aggro as he can manage in that time. You then either let the ranger die when the duration runs out or the warrior does his best to take aggro just before it's too late. Gives the warrior a nice headstart on aggro because nobody had to heal anybody or slow the mob for the duration of weaponshield. This is only crucial for progression raiding, you don't need to do it once you have a firm grasp on whatever content it is you've reached.

Clerics: required for the CH chain and HP buffs. Their lesser heals were useful in non-raid situations, but for raids, your place was in the chain and you simply didn't have room to do other things. As with anything else, this could change if your raid was so far beyond the content that it was trivial, so it doesn't bear mentioning.

Druids: always a pretty pitiful class for any high-end gameplay. I'm pretty sure Circle of Seasons is a Luclin or PoP spell, and Circle of Summer/Winter were barely better than Resist Fire/Cold. Glades is a decent buff and druids could patch-heal well enough, but it was never required and a shaman could do just as well while providing much more valuable buffs/debuffs. Throughout the entire early history of EQ, this class has no real role and is more of a convenient casual player class.

Shaman: as before and after, shamans were a core class in Velious. You needed them for slows, Malo and stat buffs. Well, the latter becomes irrelevant in the very endgame when all classes max all their stats through gear alone, but only one guild will ever get there and it'll take a long time. Probably the strongest single class to have in a non-raid group at 60, as well as godlike soloers with the right gear. Widely regarded as overpowered by that point in time.

Enchanters: the buffs were necessary, but enchanters never had very much to do during the actual fights. There were few if any encounters that had adds you couldn't clear before engaging, and you didn't have to do any crowd control once you were done with the trash.

Magicians: pretty weak by then, lacking spells that can land reliably on raid targets. Pets don't get better at all from Kunark to Velious, and while magicians retain a purpose with modrods and CotH, they're not exactly a well-defined class.

Necromancers: they can land spells on raid mobs and have all the same group utility that made them useful in Original/Kunark, but they don't really scale up at all from Kunark to Velious (like most casters, unimpressive itemization and a lack of meaningful growth between these two expansions is kind of a problem). They don't get much worse in Velious, but they don't get better, either. Still great soloers, still not particularly critical for raiding, especially if you don't wipe much.

Wizards: the only nuker class that really thrives, and still I wouldn't call them great. Lure spells will land on raid mobs, but they have horrible mana efficiency and wizards bring literally nothing but damage. Melee still out-shines them, raid mobs get so many HP that you can't burn them down, and there isn't enough flowing thought gear in the game until Luclin/PoP for a wizard to really be able to provide sustained damage throughout the entire fight. There were still places where coordinated burst damage has value, and it's nice to avoid AoEs, but casters weren't truly on par with melee until AAs.

Rogues: best DPS, though if you can't get one of the very high-end daggers from Vulak, Tunare etc., you don't actually get much better between Kunark and Velious. Goes to show how insane of a boost 51-60 and Ragebringer was for rogues. You should have max str/dex without Avatar anyway.

Monks: insane class until the nerf hits, which isn't until Luclin/PoP. The vast amounts of 100HP/20+AC items in Velious makes this class absurdly strong, able to tank much better than a DPS class should while doing great DPS and retaining the critical role of best puller. They lose all of that in later expansions which probably made Furor jizz his pants, but in Velious, raid-geared monks are just too good.

Bards: still a fine class, and crucial on raids for their resist songs, but many of their songs lose value as people easily hit caps with the wide variety of 41% haste items and +20ish stats/resist gear in Velious. I personally think this class goes downhill after Kunark and descends from superb to good. It's only because songs are limited to your group that they don't end up at the enchanter status of "just need one or two for the buffs". They also don't benefit much from gear, lacking the incentive to optimize melee DPS and having no use for the flowing thought items that appear in Velious. Can do silly things solo, but a lot of mobs start summoning by then.

[batkiller]

You should check out a game called Vanguard. It's basically Everquest 2.0 :) The classes are similar but far more fun to play! It is not as good as EQ in some other ways though, unfortunately.

[Daldaen]

The AAs from luclin were pretty good IMO. Dire Charm was $$$


As far as druids go, they tried to go a more healer-centric model in giving us Tunare's Renewal. I would've liked them to give us moar DPS stuff though instead of going almost all healer.

[webrunner5]

Endless Quiver AA for Rangers were a huge difference for them along with Autofire. Just buy or make one killer arrow and stand on a hill and kill the crap out of mobs. Crits on arrows were deadly.

[ArumTP]

Yalup does get an overhaul in later expansions, actually boosting stats!

[Wudan]

You should check out a game called Vanguard. It's basically Everquest 2.0 :) The classes are similar but far more fun to play! It is not as good as EQ in some other ways though, unfortunately.

i loled.

Vanguard is a crap game. I was there the very first day when it launched. Kept playing for about 2 months. The game is booooooooring! No immersion whatsoever, just lame.

[falkun]

The AAs from luclin were pretty good IMO. Dire Charm was $$$


As far as druids go, they tried to go a more healer-centric model in giving us Tunare's Renewal. I would've liked them to give us moar DPS stuff though instead of going almost all healer.

But you have to admit having a single healing class in the game makes that class overpowered.

Changes to classic I would make (broad generalizations):

Paladin: Increase their raid value via group healing, possibly bump their DPS.

Shadow Knight: Their raid value is in pulling, but I don't think that's where it should be. I don't think its the knight that needs changing, rather the game mechanics SKs utilize for their accomplishments.

Warrior: Provide aggro capabilities similar to a knight. They should not be reliant on proc weapons, but their tankability (/disc defensive) and DPS are fine.

Cleric: Complete Heal is one of the most overpowered abilities ever granted in a game, there is a reason no other game ever implemented the spell. Remove CH and the game doesn't have to be balanced around "the chain".

Druid: Should be a viable healer, or a viable DPS, not half-assed at both simultaneously. Chloro is great for groups, but horrible for the tank. They should be better healers than Paladins @ 60.

Shaman: 50-70% slow is overpowered for one class. Torpor is overpowered. They shouldn't be able to solo WW dragons unlike other classes due to their slows, heals, armor and spell line-up.

Monk: Monk CC should not trump bard/chanter CC. Feign Death is similar to CH: completely overpowered and game-changing. They also shouldn't tank as well as warriors (if not better without defensive).

Ranger: EQ+AM3 was the single greatest thing ever for rangers and made them completely viable DPS.

Rogue: Rogues in all games suffer from a problem of selfishness. They are amazing, but they need all the support and provide none/very little in return. Its up to you if that is a "flaw" or a "feature" of the class.

Bard: Bards are an amazing class that no other game has managed to duplicate. Their mana regen songs should affect the bard, he should have more songs that require mana, and (if monks keep FD) he should get fading memories. If they need a nerf on anything, they should have a maximum number of targets their PBAOE DoTs should affect. They also need to scale better.

Enchanter: Amazing class requiring skill to play well. Their problem is not with themselves, but their role in the larger game. They take incredible amounts of skill to play and level, then are relegated to buff-bot status for raids at end-game. Fix the game and you'll fix enchanters. If anything, charm is overpowered in the grouping game, but I feel has nice risk/reward for solo.

Magician: Pets do too much DPS until raid PBAOEs destroy them too fast for them to do anything. The caster can't land anything and his nukes are inferior to his counterpart the Wizard. Buff magician efficiency equal to wizards, but control damage/cast time such that their casted DPS + pet is on-par with wizards.

Necromancer: DoTs are overpowered. If the initial hit lands, you are guaranteed all damage, and they have to be scaled to DPS on-par with crit streaks from melee which melee might run dry on. Allow individual ticks to crit so the base damage can be tuned down and also allow individual ticks to be resisted much like melee missing a combat round. Their healing is also arguably better than a Druid's, but I think that means buffing the Druid rather than nerfing the necro.

Wizard: Wizard sustained DPS is horrible. Increase their efficiency so their sustained DPS is rogue-like. Never implement mana-burn, it ruined classic raiding more than gear.

[Danth]

Falkun's preferences appear to be considered primarily with raiding in mind. Due to my personal indifference towards raiding, I'd do things a bit differently. In particular I'd be less inclined to remove class-defining, powerful abilities and I'm not in favor of "nerfing" in general.

From a group standpoint, tank improvement would be fairly straightforward. The hybrid tanks should have had the same innate mitigation advantage (often referred to as -1 DI) as the warrior, whilst the warrior needed better hate generation (both snap and sustained). Bash, Slam, warrior Kick at 55+, and Disarm all probably should have generated more hate than they do. Maybe crits, too. Neither such change would alter the relative strengths of the classes, only lessen the gaps in a good way.

Note that I never have, and never will, view Paladin buffs not stacking with Cleric buffs as a problem. Hybrid spell casting times become a problem at high level, but this was fixed during Velious.

Healers are trickier than tanks because there's only one genuine healer class in Everquest--the Cleric. Clerics themselves are in a good position, but having only one real healer never was satisfactory. Druids could easily be improved as healers without displacing a Cleric. Note that even with Complete Heal, a Druid would usually be less efficient than a Cleric healer owing to the Cleric's vastly superior hit point buffs. Such suggestions are therefore commonplace, but I'm dubious of the prospect. While the Druid's group role seems weak, it's by design since it's predominantly a non-group class that excels in most other aspects of the game. I'd prefer to add a second, genuine healer class as opposed to improving Druids in a role most of them probably wouldn't have wanted to be pigeonholed in to. My preference would be for something similar to the Disciple from Vanguard.

Wizard sustained damage output is rather weak even in a group setting. The goal of improving the class's damage per hour without improving it's already best-in-game burst damage mean some form of innate mana regeneration would have been the best approach. I believe this was eventually done, though not during the classic era.

Rangers should have had bow damage that roughly matches their melee, and a means of obtaining and carrying sufficient ammunition. This could be accomplished by several means. I don't see a Ranger as equal to Rogue damage output, but rather a class that should have uniquely possessed the capability to deal competitive damage both from melee and range.

Magicians and Necromancers would both benefit from better pet control than provided by classic Everquest ("pet hold", etc). The pet experience penalty for pets that do most the damage should have been greatly lessened or eliminated except in cases where the pet did >95% damage (so as to discourage AFK leveling).

Outside main healing, both Druids and Shamans should have received Superior Heal at a somewhat lower level. This change was actually made during the Velious era if I recall. Shamans are in a fairly good place otherwise. Druid direct spell damage probably should have been somewhat more efficient.

Monks, Rogues, Bards, and Enchanters are in a generally good spot already in terms of group roles. I'd probably have added more places for things like disarm trap and pick lock.

The above represents what I see as general improvements that could have been made. Specific tweaks are too numerous in number to be worth listing.

Danth

[Lubian]

I'm not sure how many of you play the current Everquest, but I thought it was interesting to see issues/changes listed here that were resolved years ago. I debated whether to list some of the changes, but this thread is a little off topic anyway.

[vinx]

This thread title is hard to read

[batkiller]

i loled.

Vanguard is a crap game. I was there the very first day when it launched. Kept playing for about 2 months. The game is booooooooring! No immersion whatsoever, just lame.

No you

[Slave]

Falkun's preferences appear to be considered primarily with raiding in mind. Due to my personal indifference towards raiding, I'd do things a bit differently. In particular I'd be less inclined to remove class-defining, powerful abilities and I'm not in favor of "nerfing" in general.

From a group standpoint, tank improvement would be fairly straightforward. The hybrid tanks should have had the same innate mitigation advantage (often referred to as -1 DI) as the warrior, whilst the warrior needed better hate generation (both snap and sustained). Bash, Slam, warrior Kick at 55+, and Disarm all probably should have generated more hate than they do. Maybe crits, too. Neither such change would alter the relative strengths of the classes, only lessen the gaps in a good way.

Note that I never have, and never will, view Paladin buffs not stacking with Cleric buffs as a problem. Hybrid spell casting times become a problem at high level, but this was fixed during Velious.

Healers are trickier than tanks because there's only one genuine healer class in Everquest--the Cleric. Clerics themselves are in a good position, but having only one real healer never was satisfactory. Druids could easily be improved as healers without displacing a Cleric. Note that even with Complete Heal, a Druid would usually be less efficient than a Cleric healer owing to the Cleric's vastly superior hit point buffs. Such suggestions are therefore commonplace, but I'm dubious of the prospect. While the Druid's group role seems weak, it's by design since it's predominantly a non-group class that excels in most other aspects of the game. I'd prefer to add a second, genuine healer class as opposed to improving Druids in a role most of them probably wouldn't have wanted to be pigeonholed in to. My preference would be for something similar to the Disciple from Vanguard.

Wizard sustained damage output is rather weak even in a group setting. The goal of improving the class's damage per hour without improving it's already best-in-game burst damage mean some form of innate mana regeneration would have been the best approach. I believe this was eventually done, though not during the classic era.

Rangers should have had bow damage that roughly matches their melee, and a means of obtaining and carrying sufficient ammunition. This could be accomplished by several means. I don't see a Ranger as equal to Rogue damage output, but rather a class that should have uniquely possessed the capability to deal competitive damage both from melee and range.

Magicians and Necromancers would both benefit from better pet control than provided by classic Everquest ("pet hold", etc). The pet experience penalty for pets that do most the damage should have been greatly lessened or eliminated except in cases where the pet did >95% damage (so as to discourage AFK leveling).

Outside main healing, both Druids and Shamans should have received Superior Heal at a somewhat lower level. This change was actually made during the Velious era if I recall. Shamans are in a fairly good place otherwise. Druid direct spell damage probably should have been somewhat more efficient.

Monks, Rogues, Bards, and Enchanters are in a generally good spot already in terms of group roles. I'd probably have added more places for things like disarm trap and pick lock.

The above represents what I see as general improvements that could have been made. Specific tweaks are too numerous in number to be worth listing.

Danth

These are great ideas that show a fundamental understanding of EverQuest. I applaud this post. Well written.

[Zuranthium]

Hmm, I'll re-post exactly what I said before:

Warrior - The standard all-around melee character. Would be able to do excellent melee burst damage against single targets and tank very well. Would be able to wield all kinds of different equipment set-ups: a Two-handed weapon, or dual-wielding one-handed weapons, or a one-handed weapon + shield. Every weapon type would offer different attack skills. Their combat skills would include more knock-downs (a mechanic not currently in Everquest...these would essentially be stuns except the target would still be able to use "stances" while knocked down and there would be some knockdown-prevention skills and of course the visual would be different) than any other class and would be the most powered by adrenaline (another new mechanic - you gain it by hitting and taking damage).

Paladin - Would do the lowest damage of the melee-oriented characters (except against undead) but would be the best tanks in the game. Would always use a one-handed Sword or Hammer/Mace along with a Shield. Attack skills would be the most focused on stunning opponents out of all the melee classes. Would have spells that heal, cure conditions and hexes, provide temporary immunities, do great damage against undead (in addition to other undead-related abilities), and cause PBAoE stuns. They would not get ressurects or lulls or roots.

Shadowknight - A tank class that is excellent at doing damage to more than one target at a time. Would wield two-handed Axes or Scythes only. Attack skills would be the most focused on inflicting conditions out of all the classes. Would have spells that snare, lifetap (not only direct single-target lifetaps but also AoE lifetaps-over-time), spread Disease, cause Fear, and self-only damage shields that stack with all the others in the game. Would not get Feign Death or Pets.

Brawler (formerly Monk) - A melee class that can do immense damage to single targets by chaining attacks together, wherein each attack becomes more powerful than the previous one (until you reach the end of the chain). Uses their body as a weapon rather than wielding material weapons. Has low HP and AC (Leather would be the highest armor they can use), but high avoidance in a pinch via stances, and also a multitude of attack skills that interrupt the target's action and the ability to disarm opponents (would be more useful than it currently is in EQ). Definitely much less of a tank than the plate-wearing classes but can hold their own against physical threats for short periods of time and pump out amazing DPS. Would not get Feign Death.

Rogue - Would be similar to how they already are but would do less damage (and would use daggers exclusively for their weapons). Their pure melee attacking (this doesn't include Backstab) would especially be far weaker than it currently is, but they would instead have more powerful poison abilities to compensate somewhat. As a tradeoff to their reduced damage capability, Lock Picking and Disarming Traps and Stealing and Sneaking (and even Safe Fall, in addition to being able to climb walls) would be more useful than they currently are. They would also get the Feign Death ability that was formerly given to Monks. This would set Rogues up as being amazing pullers and amazing at navigating and allowing groups to get to an area and fight in an area, especially in dungeon situations. They would also be far better at soloing than they currently are, because of being able to keep a monster's health degenerating with a strong Posion, and then cycling Backstab + Feign Death until the monster dies.

Ranger - Instead of being primarily a melee class, they would be more focused on using Bows and Traps. When wielding a bow, they would be the best class in the game at interrupting actions - both because of the range that the Bow provides and the abilities themselves. A large degree of skill would be involved in scanning the battlefield and trying to interrupt opponents at the most useful times. They would not have any spells, but they would still be able to snare and root targets via their Bow attacks and Traps and they would still be able to provide downtime healing for themselves and others via non-spell abilities. Bows would not work in melee range; at that point the Ranger would then switch to dual-wielding one-handed swords (and they wouldn't have special melee attacks with those weapons, this weapon set would only be used when the Ranger is forced into melee). As an alternative to specializing in Bows, the Ranger could instead focus on having an animal companion (something they can still do while using a bow, the pet just won't be nearly as strong) and wielding some combination of whips/claws - ie, being a "Beast Master". Using a Bow would more frequently be the better choice but in some situations this specialization would work just as well or even be superior (and thus allow for a different style of game play). Would use Chain Armor and would be a sturdy class, especially if specializing in the evasive abilities they would allow them to more effectively set traps while being attacked, but wouldn't be able to serve as a "tank" in most cases as a result of not generating much aggro.

Bard - They wouldn't have songs that directly do damage and their Charm song also wouldn't turn the target into a commandable pet, but rather just a reactionary pet (like an Enchanter animation). However, they would be the best crowd control class in the game (better than Enchanters) and they would still be a jack-of-all-trades, with better raw melee/tanking capabilities than any casting-oriented class and a vast range of offensive/defensive/utility abilities that require a unique playstyle and are especially great for full groups.

Cleric - Would wear cloth armor (as do all of the non-"Priest" casters), not plate, and wield one-hand blunt weapons along with a shield or secondary held object. Wouldn't have stuns or roots, but would be able to pacify (target can't attack or use offensive spells while this is in effect; effect ends prematurely if they get hit). Would have more powerful undead-damaging spells. In terms of acting as a defensive character they would still be the best in the game but playing them would be far different. It would be far more about actively watching the battlefield to heal and remove conditions/hexes and using protection spells that block attacks and prevent damage. There would be no "buffs" in the game where you just throw +HP/AC spells on people that last for an hour. Would be the only class that can resurrect.

Shaman - Would wear armor up through Chain and always wield a two-handed Staff. Would not be able to directly protect or heal targets nearly as well as a Cleric, and their condition and hex removal would be weaker as well, but they would get Curses that, in addition to providing some offensive capability, allow them to prevent damage by blinding the opponent (blind would work differently than it currently does), or slowing their attack speed, or causing them to do less damage. They would get strong heals-over-time, especially via the ability to call forth spirits that provide benefits to all allies within their range (spirits would always be stationary and there would also be spirits that are offensive in nature). They would not get Haste or Roots, but would have access to good DD's and the best mana regeneration of all the "Priest" classes. Would still make Potions as well.

Druid - Possess strong direct healing and protection capability (not as good as a Cleric) and the ability to remove conditions but they can not remove hexes. Use leather armor and wield one-hand wood-based weapons and wood-based shields or a held item. Masters of the outdoors, they have the ability to cast Harmony, strong DD's and "Rain" spells (large amount of AoE damage spread over a short period), and use Tracking in those zones. The Druid can command plants and animals and take their forms (animal form would generally be more useful). Can seek out and charm a permanent (until it dies or you zone) Animal or Plant pet, or summon a more general (and often less powerful) Animal or Plant pet for use in any area. Their plant magic additionally allows them to snare, root, and create thorny damage shields. Their animal magic additionally allows them to call forth insects that do damage over time to a target. They would get solo and group teleports that are useful for traveling only (not Evacs or the other range of teleports Wizards would have). They would not have any DD capability aside from the outdoor-only ones that were mentioned.

Wizard - Would not have stuns or snares. They would have amazing Burst damage (Lightning and Fire based, with a whole range of varieties from classic DD, to "bolt" DD, to PBAoE, to small-AoE, to large-AoE), short duration Roots (Ice-based, also with a whole range of varieties, and these would all do damage), and Teleports. Their AoE burst damage would be far more useful than it ended up being in EQ (including PBAoE) and their single-target burst damage would be far better in comparison post-Original era EQ (magic damage in general for all of these classes would be far better than the terrible state it dwindled into post-Original era), although none of that Manaburn or critical cast stuff seen in later EQ eras. Their teleports would be much more flexible and useful than they currently are as well; a Wizard who specializes in such a way would have truly exceptional mobility during battle (as mana allows) via those abilities and be able to constantly hop in and out of the fray and also teleport teammates in ways that go beyond just Evacing, to a lesser degree. Would wield a one-handed staff with magical projectile capability + a secondary held item.

Summoner (formerly Magician) - Would not get damage shields or fire-based DD's or AoE DD's, but they would still get "Rain" spells (the most costly of which would have a knockdown component). Their ability to summon actual items would be a little more useful than it currently is, as would be their ability to summon allies and opponents to their location. Would be able to summon a wide variety of pets, utilizing one commandable "permanent" pet at a time and one "temporary" pet at a time that only attacks the specified target until the duration ends (or the pet dies). Summoners would be the overall best class at sustained DPS (although Brawlers would eventually beat them at single-target damage in long fights and Necromancers would eventually beat them in long-duration fights where a multitude of opponents that don't die easily are present). Some of their summons would have a small chance of backfiring (attacking the caster), as it is never a sure thing when you are playing around with summoning foreign creatures (the Summoner would be able to quickly dispel them and send them back, however). Would wield two-handed Staffs with magical projectile capability.

Enchanter - Would be similar to their current state, although with some cosmetic changes. Haste spells would not be as powerful and they would not have PBAoE stuns (but would instead have half-second duration targeted stuns, both single target and AoE, that are used mainly to interrupt and for the secondary effects that would come with them). They would have the ability to remove hexes (what is currently called a "debuff" or "DoT" would be either a Condition or a Hex) and they would have Illusion hexes that cause the target to have a chance of missing with physical attacks. They would not have the ability to slow a target's attack speed, but they would be able to slow a target's casting speed (and have some other anti-caster abilities) and also would have the ability to transfigure opponents into weaker creatures (literally transform them into, say...a sheep), which would serve as powerful debuffs. They would not get roots. Would wield multiple wands (they have projectile capability).

Necromancer - Their pets would be created from actual corpses rather than "summoned" by bone chips. Would be able to have more than one pet at a time (each one would require a different skill that must remain equipped...all pets in the game, for that matter, would require the skill to actually be equipped or else the pet goes away). The Necromancer would have more spells and abilities that exploit corpses and creatures dying. Many of the DoT lines would be more focused on spreading damage across numerous opponents rather than a single opponent. They would not have any "pure" DD's (they currently get a few). Would still have a wide range of potential abilities (snare, root, fear, transferring health and mana to allies, turning their own heath into mana, feign death, summoning corpses). Would wield a Dagger + Wand.

And a New Class:

Elementalist - Would specialize in one of the 4 elements and it would be more costly to put points into the "opposing" element line (Water vs. Fire, Air vs. Earth), although doing so would still be viable and in fact create unique skill combinations. Equipment varies depending on primary specialization - Leather armor for Air/Water and Chain armor for Fire/Earth. Air specialty wields a two-handed Staff. Earth specialty wields a one-handed blunt weapon + shield. Fire and Water wield a one-handed slashing weapon + shield. An Elementalist's power in a given line increases when surrounded by a significant amount of the given element and vanishes if none of a specific element is present, as their ability is to control the raw elements around them rather than summoning them or projecting them from their own body. The Elementalist would be adept at both melee and ranged combat, on something of a sliding scale that depends on which skills are equipped and the scenario. Deciding which form of combat to take part in at any given moment, and which elemental abilities to combine at the same time, would be the unique trait to playing the class. The ability of this class to command the elements would not be "magic", much like Bard's musical abilities are not "magic", and thus would not suffer when confronted by opponents who use anti-caster abilities.

Fire element = skills are characterized by average activation times and long cooldowns; create damage shields, add extra fire damage to attacks, high burst damage to single targets, and significant damage over time with burning (both single target and AoE).

Air element = skills are characterized by quick activation times and average cooldowns; levitation/flight abilities, evasive abilities, add extra damage to attacks and give a chance of a knockback with attacks, single-target stuns with low damage, and tornado effects that cause moderate AoE burst damage and randomly toss the opponents in a direction.

Water element = skills are characterized by average activation times and quick cooldowns; moderate burst damage to both single targets and AoE, ability to snare opponents, ability to stop burning effects and travel easily underwater.

Earth element = skills are characterized by long activation times and quick cooldowns; can create defensive skins, physical barriers, root opponents, knockdowns with minor damage (both single target and AoE), and moderate single-target burst damage.

Elemental skills can be combined at the same time to create unique effects and/or stronger effects.

[porigromus]

But you have to admit having a single healing class in the game makes that class overpowered.

Changes to classic I would make (broad generalizations):

Paladin: Increase their raid value via group healing, possibly bump their DPS.

Shadow Knight: Their raid value is in pulling, but I don't think that's where it should be. I don't think its the knight that needs changing, rather the game mechanics SKs utilize for their accomplishments.

Warrior: Provide aggro capabilities similar to a knight. They should not be reliant on proc weapons, but their tankability (/disc defensive) and DPS are fine.

Cleric: Complete Heal is one of the most overpowered abilities ever granted in a game, there is a reason no other game ever implemented the spell. Remove CH and the game doesn't have to be balanced around "the chain".

Druid: Should be a viable healer, or a viable DPS, not half-assed at both simultaneously. Chloro is great for groups, but horrible for the tank. They should be better healers than Paladins @ 60.

Shaman: 50-70% slow is overpowered for one class. Torpor is overpowered. They shouldn't be able to solo WW dragons unlike other classes due to their slows, heals, armor and spell line-up.

Monk: Monk CC should not trump bard/chanter CC. Feign Death is similar to CH: completely overpowered and game-changing. They also shouldn't tank as well as warriors (if not better without defensive).

Ranger: EQ+AM3 was the single greatest thing ever for rangers and made them completely viable DPS.

Rogue: Rogues in all games suffer from a problem of selfishness. They are amazing, but they need all the support and provide none/very little in return. Its up to you if that is a "flaw" or a "feature" of the class.

Bard: Bards are an amazing class that no other game has managed to duplicate. Their mana regen songs should affect the bard, he should have more songs that require mana, and (if monks keep FD) he should get fading memories. If they need a nerf on anything, they should have a maximum number of targets their PBAOE DoTs should affect. They also need to scale better.

Enchanter: Amazing class requiring skill to play well. Their problem is not with themselves, but their role in the larger game. They take incredible amounts of skill to play and level, then are relegated to buff-bot status for raids at end-game. Fix the game and you'll fix enchanters. If anything, charm is overpowered in the grouping game, but I feel has nice risk/reward for solo.

Magician: Pets do too much DPS until raid PBAOEs destroy them too fast for them to do anything. The caster can't land anything and his nukes are inferior to his counterpart the Wizard. Buff magician efficiency equal to wizards, but control damage/cast time such that their casted DPS + pet is on-par with wizards.

Necromancer: DoTs are overpowered. If the initial hit lands, you are guaranteed all damage, and they have to be scaled to DPS on-par with crit streaks from melee which melee might run dry on. Allow individual ticks to crit so the base damage can be tuned down and also allow individual ticks to be resisted much like melee missing a combat round. Their healing is also arguably better than a Druid's, but I think that means buffing the Druid rather than nerfing the necro.

Wizard: Wizard sustained DPS is horrible. Increase their efficiency so their sustained DPS is rogue-like. Never implement mana-burn, it ruined classic raiding more than gear.

Thanks for the excellent post. :)

[porigromus]

Hmm, I'll re-post exactly what I said before:

Warrior - The standard all-around melee character. Would be able to do excellent melee burst damage against single targets and tank very well. Would be able to wield all kinds of different equipment set-ups: a Two-handed weapon, or dual-wielding one-handed weapons, or a one-handed weapon + shield. Every weapon type would offer different attack skills. Their combat skills would include more knock-downs (a mechanic not currently in Everquest...these would essentially be stuns except the target would still be able to use "stances" while knocked down and there would be some knockdown-prevention skills and of course the visual would be different) than any other class and would be the most powered by adrenaline (another new mechanic - you gain it by hitting and taking damage).

Paladin - Would do the lowest damage of the melee-oriented characters (except against undead) but would be the best tanks in the game. Would always use a one-handed Sword or Hammer/Mace along with a Shield. Attack skills would be the most focused on stunning opponents out of all the melee classes. Would have spells that heal, cure conditions and hexes, provide temporary immunities, do great damage against undead (in addition to other undead-related abilities), and cause PBAoE stuns. They would not get ressurects or lulls or roots.

Shadowknight - A tank class that is excellent at doing damage to more than one target at a time. Would wield two-handed Axes or Scythes only. Attack skills would be the most focused on inflicting conditions out of all the classes. Would have spells that snare, lifetap (not only direct single-target lifetaps but also AoE lifetaps-over-time), spread Disease, cause Fear, and self-only damage shields that stack with all the others in the game. Would not get Feign Death or Pets.

Brawler (formerly Monk) - A melee class that can do immense damage to single targets by chaining attacks together, wherein each attack becomes more powerful than the previous one (until you reach the end of the chain). Uses their body as a weapon rather than wielding material weapons. Has low HP and AC (Leather would be the highest armor they can use), but high avoidance in a pinch via stances, and also a multitude of attack skills that interrupt the target's action and the ability to disarm opponents (would be more useful than it currently is in EQ). Definitely much less of a tank than the plate-wearing classes but can hold their own against physical threats for short periods of time and pump out amazing DPS. Would not get Feign Death.

Rogue - Would be similar to how they already are but would do less damage (and would use daggers exclusively for their weapons). Their pure melee attacking (this doesn't include Backstab) would especially be far weaker than it currently is, but they would instead have more powerful poison abilities to compensate somewhat. As a tradeoff to their reduced damage capability, Lock Picking and Disarming Traps and Stealing and Sneaking (and even Safe Fall, in addition to being able to climb walls) would be more useful than they currently are. They would also get the Feign Death ability that was formerly given to Monks. This would set Rogues up as being amazing pullers and amazing at navigating and allowing groups to get to an area and fight in an area, especially in dungeon situations. They would also be far better at soloing than they currently are, because of being able to keep a monster's health degenerating with a strong Posion, and then cycling Backstab + Feign Death until the monster dies.

Ranger - Instead of being primarily a melee class, they would be more focused on using Bows and Traps. When wielding a bow, they would be the best class in the game at interrupting actions - both because of the range that the Bow provides and the abilities themselves. A large degree of skill would be involved in scanning the battlefield and trying to interrupt opponents at the most useful times. They would not have any spells, but they would still be able to snare and root targets via their Bow attacks and Traps and they would still be able to provide downtime healing for themselves and others via non-spell abilities. Bows would not work in melee range; at that point the Ranger would then switch to dual-wielding one-handed swords (and they wouldn't have special melee attacks with those weapons, this weapon set would only be used when the Ranger is forced into melee). As an alternative to specializing in Bows, the Ranger could instead focus on having an animal companion (something they can still do while using a bow, the pet just won't be nearly as strong) and wielding some combination of whips/claws - ie, being a "Beast Master". Using a Bow would more frequently be the better choice but in some situations this specialization would work just as well or even be superior (and thus allow for a different style of game play). Would use Chain Armor and would be a sturdy class, especially if specializing in the evasive abilities they would allow them to more effectively set traps while being attacked, but wouldn't be able to serve as a "tank" in most cases as a result of not generating much aggro.

Bard - They wouldn't have songs that directly do damage and their Charm song also wouldn't turn the target into a commandable pet, but rather just a reactionary pet (like an Enchanter animation). However, they would be the best crowd control class in the game (better than Enchanters) and they would still be a jack-of-all-trades, with better raw melee/tanking capabilities than any casting-oriented class and a vast range of offensive/defensive/utility abilities that require a unique playstyle and are especially great for full groups.

Cleric - Would wear cloth armor (as do all of the non-"Priest" casters), not plate, and wield one-hand blunt weapons along with a shield or secondary held object. Wouldn't have stuns or roots, but would be able to pacify (target can't attack or use offensive spells while this is in effect; effect ends prematurely if they get hit). Would have more powerful undead-damaging spells. In terms of acting as a defensive character they would still be the best in the game but playing them would be far different. It would be far more about actively watching the battlefield to heal and remove conditions/hexes and using protection spells that block attacks and prevent damage. There would be no "buffs" in the game where you just throw +HP/AC spells on people that last for an hour. Would be the only class that can resurrect.

Shaman - Would wear armor up through Chain and always wield a two-handed Staff. Would not be able to directly protect or heal targets nearly as well as a Cleric, and their condition and hex removal would be weaker as well, but they would get Curses that, in addition to providing some offensive capability, allow them to prevent damage by blinding the opponent (blind would work differently than it currently does), or slowing their attack speed, or causing them to do less damage. They would get strong heals-over-time, especially via the ability to call forth spirits that provide benefits to all allies within their range (spirits would always be stationary and there would also be spirits that are offensive in nature). They would not get Haste or Roots, but would have access to good DD's and the best mana regeneration of all the "Priest" classes. Would still make Potions as well.

Druid - Possess strong direct healing and protection capability (not as good as a Cleric) and the ability to remove conditions but they can not remove hexes. Use leather armor and wield one-hand wood-based weapons and wood-based shields or a held item. Masters of the outdoors, they have the ability to cast Harmony, strong DD's and "Rain" spells (large amount of AoE damage spread over a short period), and use Tracking in those zones. The Druid can command plants and animals and take their forms (animal form would generally be more useful). Can seek out and charm a permanent (until it dies or you zone) Animal or Plant pet, or summon a more general (and often less powerful) Animal or Plant pet for use in any area. Their plant magic additionally allows them to snare, root, and create thorny damage shields. Their animal magic additionally allows them to call forth insects that do damage over time to a target. They would get solo and group teleports that are useful for traveling only (not Evacs or the other range of teleports Wizards would have). They would not have any DD capability aside from the outdoor-only ones that were mentioned.

Wizard - Would not have stuns or snares. They would have amazing Burst damage (Lightning and Fire based, with a whole range of varieties from classic DD, to "bolt" DD, to PBAoE, to small-AoE, to large-AoE), short duration Roots (Ice-based, also with a whole range of varieties, and these would all do damage), and Teleports. Their AoE burst damage would be far more useful than it ended up being in EQ (including PBAoE) and their single-target burst damage would be far better in comparison post-Original era EQ (magic damage in general for all of these classes would be far better than the terrible state it dwindled into post-Original era), although none of that Manaburn or critical cast stuff seen in later EQ eras. Their teleports would be much more flexible and useful than they currently are as well; a Wizard who specializes in such a way would have truly exceptional mobility during battle (as mana allows) via those abilities and be able to constantly hop in and out of the fray and also teleport teammates in ways that go beyond just Evacing, to a lesser degree. Would wield a one-handed staff with magical projectile capability + a secondary held item.

Summoner (formerly Magician) - Would not get damage shields or fire-based DD's or AoE DD's, but they would still get "Rain" spells (the most costly of which would have a knockdown component). Their ability to summon actual items would be a little more useful than it currently is, as would be their ability to summon allies and opponents to their location. Would be able to summon a wide variety of pets, utilizing one commandable "permanent" pet at a time and one "temporary" pet at a time that only attacks the specified target until the duration ends (or the pet dies). Summoners would be the overall best class at sustained DPS (although Brawlers would eventually beat them at single-target damage in long fights and Necromancers would eventually beat them in long-duration fights where a multitude of opponents that don't die easily are present). Some of their summons would have a small chance of backfiring (attacking the caster), as it is never a sure thing when you are playing around with summoning foreign creatures (the Summoner would be able to quickly dispel them and send them back, however). Would wield two-handed Staffs with magical projectile capability.

Enchanter - Would be similar to their current state, although with some cosmetic changes. Haste spells would not be as powerful and they would not have PBAoE stuns (but would instead have half-second duration targeted stuns, both single target and AoE, that are used mainly to interrupt and for the secondary effects that would come with them). They would have the ability to remove hexes (what is currently called a "debuff" or "DoT" would be either a Condition or a Hex) and they would have Illusion hexes that cause the target to have a chance of missing with physical attacks. They would not have the ability to slow a target's attack speed, but they would be able to slow a target's casting speed (and have some other anti-caster abilities) and also would have the ability to transfigure opponents into weaker creatures (literally transform them into, say...a sheep), which would serve as powerful debuffs. They would not get roots. Would wield multiple wands (they have projectile capability).

Necromancer - Their pets would be created from actual corpses rather than "summoned" by bone chips. Would be able to have more than one pet at a time (each one would require a different skill that must remain equipped...all pets in the game, for that matter, would require the skill to actually be equipped or else the pet goes away). The Necromancer would have more spells and abilities that exploit corpses and creatures dying. Many of the DoT lines would be more focused on spreading damage across numerous opponents rather than a single opponent. They would not have any "pure" DD's (they currently get a few). Would still have a wide range of potential abilities (snare, root, fear, transferring health and mana to allies, turning their own heath into mana, feign death, summoning corpses). Would wield a Dagger + Wand.

And a New Class:

Elementalist - Would specialize in one of the 4 elements and it would be more costly to put points into the "opposing" element line (Water vs. Fire, Air vs. Earth), although doing so would still be viable and in fact create unique skill combinations. Equipment varies depending on primary specialization - Leather armor for Air/Water and Chain armor for Fire/Earth. Air specialty wields a two-handed Staff. Earth specialty wields a one-handed blunt weapon + shield. Fire and Water wield a one-handed slashing weapon + shield. An Elementalist's power in a given line increases when surrounded by a significant amount of the given element and vanishes if none of a specific element is present, as their ability is to control the raw elements around them rather than summoning them or projecting them from their own body. The Elementalist would be adept at both melee and ranged combat, on something of a sliding scale that depends on which skills are equipped and the scenario. Deciding which form of combat to take part in at any given moment, and which elemental abilities to combine at the same time, would be the unique trait to playing the class. The ability of this class to command the elements would not be "magic", much like Bard's musical abilities are not "magic", and thus would not suffer when confronted by opponents who use anti-caster abilities.

Fire element = skills are characterized by average activation times and long cooldowns; create damage shields, add extra fire damage to attacks, high burst damage to single targets, and significant damage over time with burning (both single target and AoE).

Air element = skills are characterized by quick activation times and average cooldowns; levitation/flight abilities, evasive abilities, add extra damage to attacks and give a chance of a knockback with attacks, single-target stuns with low damage, and tornado effects that cause moderate AoE burst damage and randomly toss the opponents in a direction.

Water element = skills are characterized by average activation times and quick cooldowns; moderate burst damage to both single targets and AoE, ability to snare opponents, ability to stop burning effects and travel easily underwater.

Earth element = skills are characterized by long activation times and quick cooldowns; can create defensive skins, physical barriers, root opponents, knockdowns with minor damage (both single target and AoE), and moderate single-target burst damage.

Elemental skills can be combined at the same time to create unique effects and/or stronger effects.

I enjoyed reading everyone's ideas on what they would do to the classes. It is fun to dream.

[batkiller]

Shards of Dalaya did some good changes to the classes. They made it a lot more balanced too. For example all of the healers are useful in groups and raids. They removed CH chains by adding a massive recast time on it, so healing is back to how it should be. Clerics still have the biggest heal, but Druid heals are faster and more mana efficient and they make great padders. And Shaman similar to Druid but even more mana efficient, especially with their canni ability, they can out last everyone.

They also did what someone here mentioned with Pallys. Pal is almost as good at tanking as a Warrior, but their DPS is higher and they can chain cast their Group HoT spell which is pretty powerful. It basically tops up everyone's health so the cleric needs to only focus on the tank, and the few hits other people take (from AE's or whatever), are covered by the pally's group hot.

The other classes are tweaked too. Although unfortunately, it got to the point where it's not really Everquest any more, and it also became too easy. Great server though, I recommend it to anyone who gives P99 and try and realises they can't put up with the hardcore-ness of it anymore. But if you still like the old hardcore things, this is the only choice really, or that EQ Mac thing.

Although I gotta reiterate, regardless of what other douchebags might say about it, if you really are interested in seeing the true evolution of the Everquest classes, you have to play Vanguard. It's going to be free to play soon, so there's your chance. I could describe how the classes work if you like, but it would be best for you to play them.

[maahes]

i loled.

Vanguard is a crap game. I was there the very first day when it launched. Kept playing for about 2 months. The game is booooooooring! No immersion whatsoever, just lame.

Crackhead!

[porigromus]

Shards of Dalaya did some good changes to the classes. They made it a lot more balanced too. For example all of the healers are useful in groups and raids. They removed CH chains by adding a massive recast time on it, so healing is back to how it should be. Clerics still have the biggest heal, but Druid heals are faster and more mana efficient and they make great padders. And Shaman similar to Druid but even more mana efficient, especially with their canni ability, they can out last everyone.

They also did what someone here mentioned with Pallys. Pal is almost as good at tanking as a Warrior, but their DPS is higher and they can chain cast their Group HoT spell which is pretty powerful. It basically tops up everyone's health so the cleric needs to only focus on the tank, and the few hits other people take (from AE's or whatever), are covered by the pally's group hot.

The other classes are tweaked too. Although unfortunately, it got to the point where it's not really Everquest any more, and it also became too easy. Great server though, I recommend it to anyone who gives P99 and try and realises they can't put up with the hardcore-ness of it anymore. But if you still like the old hardcore things, this is the only choice really, or that EQ Mac thing.

Although I gotta reiterate, regardless of what other douchebags might say about it, if you really are interested in seeing the true evolution of the Everquest classes, you have to play Vanguard. It's going to be free to play soon, so there's your chance. I could describe how the classes work if you like, but it would be best for you to play them.

I liked Vangaurd before SOE took over .... they then did what they are good at, destroying games.

[Pico]

elf - begin level 1 with +5 sneak +10 bow

[Hastley]

no one cares the game is how it is

[porigromus]

no one cares the game is how it is

Thanks for the informative post

[batkiller]

Yeah, and by the way, the 2 going on 3 pages of replies suggest otherwise too.