Ranger vs Paladin for pvp?

[Weekapaug]

Been back on p99 for a few weeks and none of my old toons are blowing my skirt up, so to speak. I love it, but I'm bored. Been screwing around on red a bit with some toons and I've decided to take the plunge and actually play for real as time permits.

Narrowed it down to a Ranger or a Paladin. I realize both will not be the easiest to level given exp penalty and populations, but I'm up for that challenge. Started a necro, but I would rather play an iksar for that. Considered an enchanter to level up with and twink, but I did that kind of thing on blue and feel like I would rather just claw it out the old fashioned way. Both appeal to me also, because I've never really played either class beyond low levels screwing around over the years.

It's been at least a decade since I played eq pvp, though, and I would love some pros and cons about these classes from that perspective, if I could trouble anyone.

For me it's kind of coming down to having invis vs not, but neither class (that I can tell...please correct me if I'm wrong) gets see invis so with invis pots I'm thinking it's not so much an issue....Sow, too, but you get it so late as a ranger I'm not really factoring that. Beyond that I'm completely torn.

Thank you in advance.

[Maze]

Bow damage is not good it is bugged, but RNG can be viable with the right equipment and are an awesome addition to any ganksquad.

[Weekapaug]

Thank you, gentlemen.

Do I remember bow damage interrupting casts? I played a warrior on SZ and remember when getting rooted shooting at casters, but I can't remember if that was for actual effect or just doing SOMETHING while standing there rooted.

[SearyxTZ]

Paladin is better period

[Maze]

Bow damage sucks here, do not go for ranger based on bows lol.

[Weekapaug]

Thank you very much.

Looks like a new Paladin inc :)

[Wolfgang]

id say ranger just to ass more diversity. If halflings could be rangers (not sure when this is) I would have made samwise one instead of druid. gl friend and if im on and available ill PL you

[Weekapaug]

Very nice of you, Samwise. I would never ask for such a thing, but I may very well take you up on that soon. The teens always seems to suck during this era and any help getting that dmg cap off would be more than appreciated.

Thank you.

[Weekapaug]

Rolled a dwarf paladin named Dunethal. If any other people are starting toons around this time and want to try to get together for some levelling, please give me a shout in game.

Stoked!

[Wolfgang]

if rollin paladin, i would see what I need to do to get a ghoulbane. this will be the key to your soloability. not sure when it procs but I imagine Unrest would be a cake-walk once you get it. if a 35 druid can solo the quest mobs im sure i can help too.

[Weekapaug]

Very nice of you, again. I will look into the quest for sure....completely forgot about that. I've always done the camp the old fashioned way, which would require a suitable class in the 40s if memory serves. I think the quest was designed to be done much lower with the tradeoff being that the sword is no drop as opposed to the droppable version.

I think it procs at 30? Still a great weapon, though.

Very cool of you, Sam, thank you again.

[Weekapaug]

Doh! Not classic:

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=39324&highlight=sword+nobility

Now that I think of it, I think the quest version came during Luclin or PoP.

[A1551]

procs at 20 at least on blue and it makes soloing unrest very viable in the 20-30 range, even beyond altho not nearly as overpowered over 30. It drops in guk in classic from a mob who also can heal and lay hands, making him kinda a PITA for his lvl.

If I was rollin a meelee on red I'd be torn btw ranger and paladin too -- but I think I'd go with paladin. I was a cleric on live and loved the survivability and utility pvp and a paladin by 50 can do most of the same tricks a cleric can with some unique ones of his own..plus actually being able to do dmg of course. Additionally I'd say the paladins a better pve class too for the grind -- I'm playing a pally on blue and I gotta say they're really underrated. I also felt the exp penalty didn't matter a whole lot under level 50, for what it's worth.

[Weekapaug]

Just wanted to say thanks to Samwise for a little PL he helped me with last night. He tried once earlier, but someone attacked him. Later he helped me finish 4 and get thru 5 in a couple mins. :) Thanks again Samwise.

He had to log earlier than he thought, but not being able to do more than that kind of worked out....This slow melee skill-ups bug thing is no joke if you are untwinked. Most of my skills were capped for level 4 but there was a one level gap when I got to 6...headed to CB and in my mixed cloth and patchwork armor, tarnished short sword and with the new mob flee speed, I had to zone the first 2 or 3 pulls I did. After a few skillups here and there I was able to kill the entrance mobs. A few more and I could clear the whole front area. It is shocking what a difference that makes, and it would appear that weapon skills (minus DW from what I noticed on another toon) plus offense and defense are bugged so that they skill up way slower than they should.

A while later a guy comes in....apparently hes a fairly heavily twinked melee class who got PLed to the teens and came to CB to catch his skills up. We get to chatting....apparently hes got his work cut out for him because he wasn't getting skillups and some mobs were running him from the zone because his skills were so low.

This skillups bug is a problem and and I would advise anyone making a new toon before the patch to avoid PLing, especailly if you are untwinked and a melee.

That hybrid exp penalty sucks too, btw, not that I didn't expect it. The two together completely blow, though, because one basicly doubles your experience needed, the other cuts your ability to get it. A double hit. I've already concluded that training points + cash is probably how I'll wind up getting 2HS up for pvp.

I quit playing my war at 25 during blue classic because of the aggro situation. No wonder there are never any tanks around, really. It's just easier to play something else, not deal with the limitations of a melee, not deal with this melee skills bug, and not have to deal with an exp penalty taboot.

I'm sticking with it for now because, overall, it's been fun and I'm curious to see how this will go, but just for the sake of discussion......I had narrowed it down to paladin or ranger for PvP....the PvE is in danger of putting me off of it LOL....Are there any particular, non-hybrid classes that are needed higher up on the server? I realize at this point we need everything, but is anything particularly lacking? Druids and shaman is out because I have those on blue....and I would doubt there's a lack of either. Enchanter appeals for some reason. As does cleric. For melee, monk, maybe? Blue is a monkfest. How is it here?

After tonight's session I won't be on for a couple of days....When I get back would be a good time to re-roll if I do, is why I ask.

[Weekapaug]

procs at 20 at least on blue and it makes soloing unrest very viable in the 20-30 range, even beyond altho not nearly as overpowered over 30. It drops in guk in classic from a mob who also can heal and lay hands, making him kinda a PITA for his lvl.

If I was rollin a meelee on red I'd be torn btw ranger and paladin too -- but I think I'd go with paladin. I was a cleric on live and loved the survivability and utility pvp and a paladin by 50 can do most of the same tricks a cleric can with some unique ones of his own..plus actually being able to do dmg of course. Additionally I'd say the paladins a better pve class too for the grind -- I'm playing a pally on blue and I gotta say they're really underrated. I also felt the exp penalty didn't matter a whole lot under level 50, for what it's worth.

Thank you. I used to tool around on my GFs pally that I twinked for her back in the day but it's been so long I couldn't remember. Camps not bad if you have the right toon....camped it for someone on blue with my 45 druid a few weeks ago....the key is weeding all the shamans out of the surrounding rooms so the lord cant get heals. Racial hide helps so you can just leave all the greenies up and hide/med between pops (greenies aggro if you sit).

The $64k question....any idea what one goes for on red? Or if one can even be had? A guy was auctioning looking to buy one all night in /ooc and eventually someone told him "no one sells ghoulbanes here." Which got my attention, to say the least.

[Weekapaug]

By the way if any of that seemed whiney, I'm operating on no sleep and was suprisingly frustrated by the bugs and crap I ran into last night. Came into this prepared to take my beating from pvp not the pve and found a lot of that kind of frustrating.

I LOVE this game and these servers, but I'm starting to feel like I might be wasting my time and I'm not sure why that is, but it's not fun. There's nothing else I'd rather be playing.

[Beastro]

By the way if any of that seemed whiney, I'm operating on no sleep and was suprisingly frustrated by the bugs and crap I ran into last night. Came into this prepared to take my beating from pvp not the pve and found a lot of that kind of frustrating.

I LOVE this game and these servers, but I'm starting to feel like I might be wasting my time and I'm not sure why that is, but it's not fun. There's nothing else I'd rather be playing.

The newbie speaks wise words.

[Wolfgang]

By the way if any of that seemed whiney, I'm operating on no sleep and was suprisingly frustrated by the bugs and crap I ran into last night. Came into this prepared to take my beating from pvp not the pve and found a lot of that kind of frustrating.

I LOVE this game and these servers, but I'm starting to feel like I might be wasting my time and I'm not sure why that is, but it's not fun. There's nothing else I'd rather be playing.

ya bro i admire that you wanna play pally but with this pop this really is a casters game unless you twinked or got a guild to carry you up. gl bro and ill help anytime i see you on and im not busy.

[Weekapaug]

ya bro i admire that you wanna play pally but with this pop this really is a casters game unless you twinked or got a guild to carry you up. gl bro and ill help anytime i see you on and im not busy.

Thanks again, Sam. Your help already as well as your encouragement and that of others' has been awesome.

I'm sticking with it for now. I was prepared for a challenge but had a bit of a rude awakening with the compounding issues, is all. And even if I don't stick with the pally I'm going to play something here, for sure, time permitting.

For you guys on the mid-high end....If I were to consider another class have you noticed anything in particular lacking? Surely with 80 people on peak something comes to mind?

I played a mean rejuve cleric on daoc...not to be immodest but aside from a couple pros I knew who were unreal, I could keep a group up in 8v8 as good as any about healer I ever saw in that game, while usually kiting half the melees in circles at the same time, albeit it was Molvik (and the up to 49 BG forget what it's called) since it was an alt....pvp support can be super fun I've just never done it in EQ. Enchanter?

[Wolfgang]

Oddly I havent seen any shammys around in the last 2 days. One way to find out is a cool little command not many people know about.

in game type
/who all druid count

obviously where druid is you can type warrior, halfling, ogre, mage, whatever race/class you wanna check. Itll tell you how much of that type is online atm. its a good way to see what classes play at what times.

[Weekapaug]

I've been doing that off and on, but with people coming and going as they do, just thought I would ask. I've not seen first hand what the mid-high level situation is here.

The numbers seem pretty even, really, from what I've seen during the busier times, so kind of hard to get a bead on what's really going on from that, I guess.

[Maze]

Everything is needed on a 50 pop server play what your skilled with you will need any advantage you can get in pvp later.

[Weekapaug]

Thank you, Maze. Excellent points.

In a holding pattern atm before I can play tonight (which is why I'm posting instead of playing) but I've been sitting here contemplating all of this and I think my problem is this...

After a month of floundering bored with multiple toons on blue, I'm finally stoked to sink into something, get levelled up, and dive in. VERY excited about red....

I've found on blue, despite being quite the twinker during my time in EQ, that I have vastly more fun with untwinked chars....If you twink, all there is left to do is grind and I don't get much of a sense of accomplishment from that. And it's one dimensional and dull. I've found I enjoy not twinking, lately.

Paladin, all things considered, is probably not the best choice of classes for this, at least for a main toon. Exp penalty + bugs + eye of the tiger levelling = frustration, I think, and I think I may be better off taking my time with the pally and playing it as an alt and having fun with it, rather than getting frustrated because I'm trying to advance asap....This is more about what I want to do than the class, really. I knew it would be slow, but with the issues here it's a bit much. I can get it done and scratch that itch better on another toon, basicly, I think.

Think I might roll a cleric. Ive played several over the years, highest being 70ish with like 600AA. With no exp penalty (not to mention, root at level 5), I think I'll be happier. Class has soloability, obvious groupability, melee issues aren't really an issue, is more forgiving as a first toon than a melee....and, if memory serves is one of the better classes for group pvp, but not so much 1v1? Am I missing anything?

Pops are low...Realisticly, how bad or not is it soloing up a cleric old world if one had to? Anything a bluebie should know about clerics in pvp that are way outside of the blue norm?

[Maze]

Clerics are easy to level, good for group PvP and raiding.

Some classes are very reliant on the skill level of the user to be effective in PvP alone, Cleric falls into that category imo.

[Seaweedpimp]

Enchanters are the medium id say of all classes, any pure melee is rare, any hybrid is rare besides the sk which is allmost more popular than wizards.

Need more necros, rogs, mnk, not too much f a shortage on clerics imo but more are allways better.

[Seaweedpimp]

Pops are low...Realisticly, how bad or not is it soloing up a cleric old world if one had to? Anything a bluebie should know about clerics in pvp that are way outside of the blue norm?


It wouldn be too hard 1-5.

5-10 might be a little harder

10-20 you might find an undead camp

20-30 youre pretty screwed for soloing

30-40 id say youre still pretty screwed out of soloing

40-50 you can definately solo spectres up to 46ish, past 44 its gonna be slow, but specs still give exp.


pvp, youre not killing anyone who is full life/full mana except MAYBE a rogue. Best to use root and DA to get out of tight situations, theres just nothing you can do.

At the same time any other pure casting class will go oom trying to kill you if youre smart, dispell all dots, cure all poision, cure all disease, stun and root as nessisary and they will eventually realize they might as well befriend you, because they arent going to be slaying you.

[Weekapaug]

Thanks, fellas. I sincerely appreciate the insight.

When you say enchanters are the medium, do you mean in terms of population?

Enchanter appeals to me also, but for some reason I have visions of constantly being eaten alive in PvP as opposed to the cleric. I'm more familiar with clerics too. But if I'm simply not going to be able to level the cleric that's a big consideration. Both classes appeal to me equally, just something about being a bit hardier built and able to heal sticks out to me.

When you say 20-40 you are pretty screwed, is that because there are no places for clerics to solo at all (i think i can think of a few), or there are no places for clerics to solo here because people will be trying to kill me constantly? I can see unrest and LG being fairly high traffic here, basicly.

I would consider a monk, but it's going to have to be after they fix this melee skills bug. I have a level 8 necro but not having iksar regen nags at me and I would rather wait for that.

Think an enchanter might be more forgiving than a cleric given the current state of the server?

[Maze]

Actually 19-34 are very easy to solo the house in unrest, you will also get ALOT of pvp practice im sure lol.

[Weekapaug]

I'm sure. LOL Unrest has to hand it to you one way or another, if not a train on blue then something else here. :P

[Seaweedpimp]

Im sure others can give you ideas on where to solo as a cleric, i just know 40-45 specs would probably be ideal is not your only option.

I see just as many enchanters as i do necros i think. More wizards/dru/bard/sk than anything else.

Im sure its possible to solo from 1-50, but you wont have to, and you wouldnt want to is what i mean by youre screwed. Screwed meaning youl be leveling at a very slow rate, and youre not going to know exactly whats going to happen like if you played a mage or a necro.

[Seaweedpimp]

Actually 19-34 are very easy to solo the house in unrest, you will also get ALOT of pvp practice im sure lol.

Check out this thread if youre thinking about unrest.

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=72533&page=12

[Weekapaug]

That's what I was thinking. lol Just something about that zone that seems to always bring em out, eh? Plus I think I've heard about a lot of pvp going on there here, too, here and there for whatever reason.

So, all things considered, since an enchanter can solo pretty much anywhere (i think) is that a more practical option here?

I remember them being really nasty in pvp. I also remember them being the first target in a furball, but I could be confusing here with daoc.

[Zalaerian]

Ready for the big secret to soloing a cleric? 15-50 Paineel

[Zalaerian]

ONly time your not in paineel is 34-40 doing hag room in unrest

[Palemoon]

Ghoulbane does not proc as much as you'd like it to when soloing. If you want to solo as a new Paladin you'd have to be twinked somewhat and stick to undead. You will find yourself useing your undead nuke constantly and taking med breaks. Its the undead nuke imo that allows for a steady solo option at all imo.

SK would be better for solo xp. Ranger/warrior/rogue of course far far worse then either. Monks..not sure about, never played one.

You could get to 35 solo at an acceptable rate (slow but steady). After that for your sanity , find at least a healer to group with. (grouping is preferable at all levels imo)

[Weekapaug]

So, all things considered, since an enchanter can solo pretty much anywhere (i think) is that a more practical option here?

I remember them being really nasty in pvp. I also remember them being the first target in a furball, but I could be confusing here with daoc.

Thanks guys. I've kind of slept on this. And read the resists thread.

The pally is fun but I'm going to be taking my time with it. Not interested in another hybrid or melee at this time due to bugs and the current state of things. Cleric, maybe....smokin' class but not sure I need to solo one and if I did....who am I going to be healing if I ever group? Not a lot of melees around. Tooling with the pally casually and finding another game to play till they fix some bugs and/or kunark comes out so I can roll an iksar necro is starting to sound good.

How are enchanters in PvP here? I've searched by title and thread every thread in the pvp general forum and there is some info here and there, but a lot of it is old before the server was out and people didn't know how they were going to be. I've asked in game and I hear completely different things from everyone I talk to.

[gloinz]

Thanks guys. I've kind of slept on this. And read the resists thread.

The pally is fun but I'm going to be taking my time with it. Not interested in another hybrid or melee at this time due to bugs and the current state of things. Cleric, maybe....smokin' class but not sure I need to solo one and if I did....who am I going to be healing if I ever group? Not a lot of melees around. Tooling with the pally casually and finding another game to play till they fix some bugs and/or kunark comes out so I can roll an iksar necro is starting to sound good.

How are enchanters in PvP here? I've searched by title and thread every thread in the pvp general forum and there is some info here and there, but a lot of it is old before the server was out and people didn't know how they were going to be. I've asked in game and I hear completely different things from everyone I talk to.

looks like another person griefed off by nihilium

[Weekapaug]

Negative. Some random person (at level 5) killed me a couple weeks ago....when i got back I got them to 1% before they plugged.

The rest of the time it's just been me and the bugs. :) There were seriously 8 people on this morning.

[Seaweedpimp]

looks like another person griefed off by nihilium

now thats sad