FIX RESISTS

[bamzal]

Just want classic, classic is not getting perma stunned and raped by clerics. Clerics shouldn't be able land their magic based spells in high level pvp with 100+ MR.

[bamzal]

Null, enough with the custom bullshit. Enough tweaking this and tweaking that. Do work son. Get it right, once and for all. You alone are driving people away.

[Dullah]

Sadly, I think its time to just give this up.

We've clearly communicated that the issue was not limited to roots or snares, but all movement impairing effects and many lines of magic based spells with movement components. I remember on live on my wizard, the spells with the mind icons were almost not worth using against npcs, let alone players with mr. Same goes for magic based nukes of other classes. With good mr you'd even resist mez in live unless the enc was using lvl 60 mez. That wasn't what was patched, but instead we got another compromise that only fixed a small part of the problem because it wasn't in line with the developers preferences.

I always try to be appreciative of work, especially when its done for free, but when people decide to reinvent the wheel and change the way something is supposed to work in a statedly "classic" game, well, it just leaves the game unclassic...

[hagard]

I don't recall any ench ever using whirl.
As a pally I never bothered to stun and I sure as he'll never got stunned by any clr.
Please take a look at this null.

[Nirgon]

Luls

[Wolfgang]

when i see a caster i just plug

[Maze]

server/resists (after last set of tweaks) is fantastic, i dont even see any of these posters in game.

[bamzal]

seems to be a hot topic for a dead server. wonder why

[Lazortag]

Just want classic, classic is not getting perma stunned and raped by clerics. Clerics shouldn't be able land their magic based spells in high level pvp with 100+ MR.

I dislike the current resist system but this is the completely wrong way to express your concerns.

[heartbrand]

Ya this is kinda a joke

[Null]

far out man

[Wolfgang]

hi null

[SearyxTZ]

I like Null's avatar

[Silikten]

i like avatar's null

[FoxxHound]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/559579_10150785745992253_541392252_9487387_9236121 09_n.jpg

[jjgerman]

15 people online, ...............who cares

[Akim]

15 people online, ...............who cares

you mad

[bamzal]

[03-02-2001] http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/showpost.php?p=70711&postcount=3
First, dont lvl. Clerics stink at pvp at higher lvls.
Use furor to inturrupt others spells.
All magic based spells (root/blind/stun) are good up to about lvl 35 then many people have the magic resist to pretty much resist all those.
PvP in a group, solo you will stink at mid to higher lvls
There are lots of tactics, just think defense...

[03-08-2001] http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/showpost.php?p=70715&postcount=7
I'm level 49 and I've learned I can only land one spell: cancel magic. Anything else and you're going to be wasting your time on a red server. Blue servers will tell you to use this or that nuke and stun because all the do is duel and people on blue servers have horrible MR. The only stun I even consider loading is the level 1 stun, just to interrupt a cast if I think I can. All the others stun and do damage, giving them 2 sv magic checks, thus making them twice as likely to be resisted.

[bamzal]

the above list is just going to keep growing until its fixed

[Wolfgang]

eqclerics, damn bro i remember that site. good find.

[bamzal]

based on that second eqcleric post, Null clearly played on blue.

[Wolfgang]

based on that second eqcleric post, Null clearly played on blue.

for sho, doubt they even dueled at that.

[Greegon]

Magic resists are currently fine if you ask me.

Fire/cold/poison/disease may not be but i get resists on those all of the time.
get that pumice son

[Malevz]

Just want classic, classic is not getting perma stunned and raped by clerics. Clerics shouldn't be able land their magic based spells in high level pvp with 100+ MR.

So basically clerics shouldn't be able to nuke or stun targets that are 100+mr, something that is easy to reach? Clerics should only be able to pvp until 50, then just heal? I call bullshit.

[heartbrand]

Sorry, but that's classic, ez server ======> way bro

[jdklaw]

[03-02-2001] http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/showpost.php?p=70711&postcount=3


[03-08-2001] http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/showpost.php?p=70715&postcount=7

A+ informative posts, but I don't get rooted/snared/whirled/mezzed/stunned very often.

Come back to game and play with new resists, then evaluate.

[Dullah]

Magic resists are currently fine if you ask me.

Fire/cold/poison/disease may not be but i get resists on those all of the time.
get that pumice son

I hate to even get into it again, but... Ironically, elemental/pr/dr are the complete opposite problem of the issues with MR line spells.

Main reason I have no desire to play my wiz is because half the people left have poopsocked resists and roll in crews fully buffed. Nothing wrong with either of those things, but on this server it means my ice comets hit for 300s and shit. That means if i have a minute to cast 5 ice comets, I might be able to kill someone with resists permitted they don't just heal or get healed while spamming me with /say lol. Fire/cold nukes doing a static 40-60% less dmg is not classic. Resists results were not static numbers. Even with 250+ (which no one has unless they dedicate every slot to a certain resist and pop pots), you wouldn't reliably resist the same amount of damage every time like you do on r99.

Pumice is great if you can get away with it, but anyone without clickies to prevent dispel at this point sucks and is barely worth killing. So... that leaves you running from priest classes or farming wands 24/7 if you want to do damage as a wizard.

No thanks.

[Wolfgang]

I hate to even get into it again, but... Ironically, elemental/pr/dr are the complete opposite problem of the issues with MR line spells.

Main reason I have no desire to play my wiz is because half the people left have poopsocked resists and roll in crews fully buffed. Nothing wrong with either of those things, but on this server it means my ice comets hit for 300s and shit. That means if i have a minute to cast 5 ice comets, I might be able to kill someone with resists permitted they don't just heal or get healed while spamming me with /say lol. Fire/cold nukes doing a static 40-60% less dmg is not classic. Resists results were not static numbers. Even with 250+ (which no one has unless they dedicate every slot to a certain resist and pop pots), you wouldn't reliably resist the same amount of damage every time like you do on r99.

Pumice is great if you can get away with it, but anyone without clickies to prevent dispel at this point sucks and is barely worth killing. So... that leaves you running from priest classes or farming wands 24/7 if you want to do damage as a wizard.

No thanks.

eq pvp not really about solo ganking. if you lookin for that then find someone xping then ice comet, works better than a GM sanctioned duel between two fellows who /bow before engaging in pvp.

[heartbrand]

Welcome to EQ PVP where casters are gimped, and have always been gimped.

[Maze]

Yeah Wizard kinda shitty solo, once rune gets golem wanded they suck dick.

Do what most classes have to do, roll in a group.

[Wolfgang]

the thing about eq pvp is that is so far from balance its redamndiculous. its the beauty of eq pvp. so roll with a group or expect nothing less of getting raped.

example, mage earth pet at low levels will plow through just about anyone and keep them rooted. this is assuming mage and victum are both untwinked.

[Lazortag]

I hate to even get into it again, but... Ironically, elemental/pr/dr are the complete opposite problem of the issues with MR line spells.

Main reason I have no desire to play my wiz is because half the people left have poopsocked resists and roll in crews fully buffed. Nothing wrong with either of those things, but on this server it means my ice comets hit for 300s and shit. That means if i have a minute to cast 5 ice comets, I might be able to kill someone with resists permitted they don't just heal or get healed while spamming me with /say lol. Fire/cold nukes doing a static 40-60% less dmg is not classic. Resists results were not static numbers. Even with 250+ (which no one has unless they dedicate every slot to a certain resist and pop pots), you wouldn't reliably resist the same amount of damage every time like you do on r99.

Pumice is great if you can get away with it, but anyone without clickies to prevent dispel at this point sucks and is barely worth killing. So... that leaves you running from priest classes or farming wands 24/7 if you want to do damage as a wizard.

No thanks.

Not sure how you can complain as a wizard, if you have access to the planes you are easily one of the best solo pvp classes (with conflag wands being very common and very powerful, plus the best nukes). Also resists aren't nearly as powerful as you make them out to be, even with 100 FR/CR I rarely find myself getting significant partials. Compare that to how effective 100 MR is.

[Dullah]

I got plenty of logs fighting people with resist gear where I go oom on a single target before they die. You dont know wtf you're talking about as usual.

[Null]

I got plenty of logs fighting people with resist gear where I go oom on a single target before they die. You dont know wtf you're talking about as usual.

whats your mana at in typical PvP gear?

[SearyxTZ]

Hi Null

[Null]

Hi Null

Oh hi Searyx

[jdklaw]

whats your mana at in typical PvP gear?

probably between 1700-2100

[Null]

This shows the total damage for Wizard with 2000 mana casting Ice Comet / Conflag / Rend until they run out, this doesn't factor in mana regen or leftover mana (I assume whatever is left is for utility spells). Used 1000 casts per resist level

Ice Comet (this would be about 1/5 less for anything less than 2000 mana just fyi)
3690 @ 50 CR
2845 @ 100 CR
2005 @ 150 CR
1505 @ 200 CR

Conflagration
3256 @ 50
2488 @ 100
1688 @ 150
1344 @ 200

Rend
3605 @ 50
2744 @ 100
1925 @ 150
1477 @ 200

Does this seem unreasonable?

[Wolfgang]

need a readout on flamelick dmg Null.

edit: oh and hai null, nicest developer we gotz.

[Seaweedpimp]

Idk null, allways remember magic based being easier to resist surely than an ice or fire, you should be getting more numbers with ice comet than rend, conflag feels right to me.

i realize your average player will likely have an average MR higher than fr/cr, just dont see how youre landing 1477dmg worth of rends at 200 mr ( should be like 900 imo lol) And only landing 40 more damage over all using ice comet also at 200cr(edit:)

[SearyxTZ]

If he fixed root/snare then honestly who gives a shit about Clerics landing a nuke or two in pvp?


Their survivability was always great but they were still regarded as the worst 1v1 pvp class in the game in classic/kunark/velious (yes, worse than rangers/enchanters) as they have no other way of doing real damage aside from their shitty mana-inefficient nukes.

[Null]

Also just for context, here is the Cleric nuke:

Retribution
2568 @ 50 MR
1776 @ 100 MR
1296 @ 150 MR
1016 @ 200 MR

[Ladytron]

problem is wizards are spoiled, I had this wizard ask me once if he can rend on me because he never used it before... come on bro ice comet isnt the only spell available. learn to use conflag and rend as they are just as potent and usually everyone's stacking CR when you walk up

they are getting upset because 12 years later everyone knows how to stack and what items to get to stack resists and now its fucked... before it was different when people didnt all know about all the resist gear out there imo

[hagard]

This shows the total damage for Wizard with 2000 mana casting Ice Comet / Conflag / Rend until they run out, this doesn't factor in mana regen or leftover mana (I assume whatever is left is for utility spells). Used 1000 casts per resist level

Ice Comet (this would be about 1/5 less for anything less than 2000 mana just fyi)
3690 @ 50 CR
2845 @ 100 CR
2005 @ 150 CR
1505 @ 200 CR

Conflagration
3256 @ 50
2488 @ 100
1688 @ 150
1344 @ 200

Rend
3605 @ 50
2744 @ 100
1925 @ 150
1477 @ 200

Does this seem unreasonable?

Dullah shat upon by big null dog

[Lazortag]

I got plenty of logs fighting people with resist gear where I go oom on a single target before they die. You dont know wtf you're talking about as usual.

I thought my post was pretty inoffensive yet I somehow managed to piss you off. Pick up some conflag wands and stop complaining. Or just read Null's post if you want thorough proof that you're wrong.

[hagard]

just read Null's post if you want thorough proof that you're wrong.

He he he

[Dullah]

Dullah shat upon by big null dog

Hardly.

In classic EQ, there was a random factor in nukes. It wasn't static, like I stated earlier.

With good resists (ie 150), you might get a full potential resist (say 50%), but you also might just get the minimum resist for that level of resistance (which was more like max damage minus your present save vs that line of magic). There was a random factor about it. Higher your resist, the higher your base resist, and higher potential you'd have to resist more damage on top of that base.

Here is almost entirely static with 50-100 dmg variance. That variance variable needs to be increased.

In pvp gear, I have enough to cast 5 ice comets.

I've tested rend, and as stated above, because MR is higher, its naturally less efficient in a common scenario. Conflag seems to be the most efficient as people stack CR anticipating ice comet, but then I'm nothing but a druid with no heals...

[Wolfgang]

Hardly.

In classic EQ, there was a random factor in nukes. It wasn't static, like I stated earlier.

With good resists (ie 150), you might get a full potential resist (say 50%), but you also might just get the minimum resist for that level of resistance (which was more like max damage minus your present save vs that line of magic). There was a random factor about it. Higher your resist, the higher your base resist, and higher potential you'd have to resist more damage on top of that base.

Here is almost entirely static with 50-100 dmg variance. That variance variable needs to be increased.

In pvp gear, I have enough to cast 5 ice comets.

I've tested rend, and as stated above, because MR is higher, its naturally less efficient in a common scenario. Conflag seems to be the most efficient as people stack CR anticipating ice comet, but then I'm nothing but a druid with no heals...

lulz sup druid with no heals. you sound mad and you hate your class. sounds like you rolled a wizard to 2 shot everyone and think you are badass. if you aint havin fun dawg roll somethin else. if you really think you are a druid with no heals then you should probably just roll a druid.

[Dullah]

I thought my post was pretty inoffensive yet I somehow managed to piss you off. Pick up some conflag wands and stop complaining. Or just read Null's post if you want thorough proof that you're wrong.

Thanks, but no thanks. I won't be relying on clickies to pvp. To me, pvp loses its luster when you have to spend X hours farming expendable items instead of just knowing your class and using the tactics that come with knowing your class and the strengths and weaknesses of other classes.

And if you think because Null said it, its somehow fact, you sir are dumb. No offense to Null intended. There are a handful of people on this server that played more classic EQ than me, and of those in this thread, neither you nor Null are among them.

[Dullah]

lulz sup druid with no heals. you sound mad and you hate your class. sounds like you rolled a wizard to 2 shot everyone and think you are badass. if you aint havin fun dawg roll somethin else. if you really think you are a druid with no heals then you should probably just roll a druid.

Got plenty of toons geared to the tits, just need a reason to play em. dawg

[Wolfgang]

word, you sound calm, cool and collected now. i guess i misread your text as anger. sorry for the slight troll, enjoy your stay. oh and twink my druid. thanks.

[Lazortag]

Hardly.

In classic EQ, there was a random factor in nukes. It wasn't static, like I stated earlier.

...

Here is almost entirely static with 50-100 dmg variance. That variance variable needs to be increased.

...

This isn't how it works at all on red. I think before you act rude and ridicule others for not knowing what they're talking about, you should check your own facts.

edit: Re: conflag wands. My point wasn't that you need to rely on them, but that with them wizards become ridiculously OP. It doesn't take any time at all to farm conflag wands, you'll probably get at least a couple every time you farm hate.

[Seaweedpimp]

They arent too common lazor. Id say they drop of 1/20 liches

[goalie]

wat

[Jabber]

There are a handful of people on this server that played more classic EQ than me

oh so we got one of these tools here.
try solo pvp on rog or monk LIFE AINT FAIR EQ AINT FAIR
stop the QQ

[jdklaw]

Just find evidence instead of saying your right because you remember playing classic Pre Kunark 11 years ago

[Jirr]

This shows the total damage for Wizard with 2000 mana casting Ice Comet / Conflag / Rend until they run out, this doesn't factor in mana regen or leftover mana (I assume whatever is left is for utility spells). Used 1000 casts per resist level

Ice Comet (this would be about 1/5 less for anything less than 2000 mana just fyi)
3690 @ 50 CR
2845 @ 100 CR
2005 @ 150 CR
1505 @ 200 CR

Conflagration
3256 @ 50
2488 @ 100
1688 @ 150
1344 @ 200

Rend
3605 @ 50
2744 @ 100
1925 @ 150
1477 @ 200

Does this seem unreasonable?

Have you considered tweaking your examples to show the chance of killing say another wizard who just sits there and casts diamond skin? A wizard with 2000 mana and 50 to all saves could stand still casting diamond skin and live through anything his/her opponent cared to cast. Average resists for a buffed wizard with middling gear and two clickies is going to be around 200fr/cr/mr during kunark and north of 300 during velious. Even with 4000 mana you couldn't kill another wizard who sat still casting skin. There is little to no chance of killing most classes if they stand still and cast defensive spells. A monk with great gear and buffs could hit mend and run a wizard oom.

I do not mean to say that you could kill these classes reliably on live, but you had a decent chance. Although I am not sure that the comparison to live applies with your method of balancing pvp.

[Dullah]

^

On live with good resists, you couldn't stand toe to toe with casters like you can here. Its just sad when people know they can throw 1 or 2 heals and take my nukes to the face.

Again, lazor talking out your ass. Last thing I did a few weeks ago before logging was testing nukes at different resists between 100-150cr/fr. Once you get up to around 150, the difference in damage was very close to the same each time. On live it was way more random, just like hits and misses, crits etc on a melee. Formula just wasn't as "reliable" as r99. Go ahead and keep flatulating out your face though, you're obviously pro.

[Lazortag]

^

On live with good resists, you couldn't stand toe to toe with casters like you can here. Its just sad when people know they can throw 1 or 2 heals and take my nukes to the face.

Again, lazor talking out your ass. Last thing I did a few weeks ago before logging was testing nukes at different resists between 100-150cr/fr. Once you get up to around 150, the difference in damage was very close to the same each time. On live it was way more random, just like hits and misses, crits etc on a melee. Formula just wasn't as "reliable" as r99. Go ahead and keep flatulating out your face though, you're obviously pro.

I have no idea why you're being so aggressive over something so minor. It makes it impossible to reason with you. I offered my experiences with the resist system which many people share. You're just making assertions and being rude to everyone who disagrees with you. What's most ridiculous about all this is that you're playing a wizard and complaining about being underpowered. On a red server. Seriously?

[Null]

And if you think because Null said it, its somehow fact, you sir are dumb. No offense to Null intended. There are a handful of people on this server that played more classic EQ than me, and of those in this thread, neither you nor Null are among them.

The parses are actually facts. All that I listed where parses to aid discussion and a question, is this unreasonable?

[Tr0llb0rn]

Null: I for one like the way resists are currently.

Meele are powerful and will only get more powerful as time goes on, its good that 90 percent of a casters spellbook is not useless in pvp here. Your most recent adjustments to root/snare are enough. Stick to your initial vision for red resists please. Just fix bolt spells though.

[Nirgon]

There were a handful of people on this server that played more classic EQ than me.

Fixed.

Just you now dawg.

Have fun whirl spamming and laughing at people or root spam being a viable tactic. EQ Classic PvP is spinning in its grave.

[Akim]

Just fix bolt spells though.

:)

[kprobe]

Null: I for one like the way resists are currently.

Meele are powerful and will only get more powerful as time goes on, its good that 90 percent of a casters spellbook is not useless in pvp here. Your most recent adjustments to root/snare are enough. Stick to your initial vision for red resists please. Just fix bolt spells though.

I second this.

The only other thing I think should be looked at is dragon AoE, no partials at 150-200cr/fr for duration of fight makes the resistances futile, and strategies then rely on dps bursting and lots of pets, each typically doing 90% of PC raid dps; none of which is particularly classic.

Back on live having resists in the 150ish region on dragons would bring down the aoe from 500 to about 270 average (personal experience), making melee useful not a liability.

[jdklaw]

Fixed.

Just you now dawg.

Have fun whirl spamming and laughing at people or root spam being a viable tactic. EQ Classic PvP is spinning in its grave.

Lol stop citing resistance faults from 3 months ago scrub

[Lazortag]

I second this.

The only other thing I think should be looked at is dragon AoE, no partials at 150-200cr/fr for duration of fight makes the resistances futile, and strategies then rely on dps bursting and lots of pets, each typically doing 90% of PC raid dps; none of which is particularly classic.

Back on live having resists in the 150ish region on dragons would bring down the aoe from 500 to about 270 average (personal experience), making melee useful not a liability.

You're doing something wrong then. You'll get partials at 200 FR against Naggy just fine, but keep in mind it won't happen often because Naggy is level 55 and the max level is 50. You don't need pets at all to kill Naggy, he can be done with less than 3 groups even if you don't dodge the ae's (and if you wall the ae's then it's even easier - just time it so that your melees go behind the wall before he casts lava breath and you'll only need to focus your heals on the main tank).

[bakkily]

its not too bad, but when i do pvp, half the time my ass has been handed back to me, and resist on some pve mobs half the time are horrid, but hey we wanted eq pvp and they opened up this server

, lets not pout too much or they may just unplug it and not even care about eq pvp, and say hey you wanna play classic eq, go blue, so lets tone it down peeps

this server isnt that bad and i feel if more people played, it'd be in better shape, though i have seen more tanks/dps classes out there

[Dullah]

The parses are actually facts. All that I listed where parses to aid discussion and a question, is this unreasonable?

I appreciate your openness about the system. I know its tough perfecting a system that no longer exists with very little old data to accurately recreate it with. I'm just speaking from my experience. I know how it works now, believe your figures represent the r99 system, but simply saying the way resists and spells are atm is just not like it was on classic though the last patch made it closer.

[Null]

I appreciate your openness about the system. I know its tough perfecting a system that no longer exists with very little old data to accurately recreate it with. I'm just speaking from my experience. I know how it works now, believe your figures represent the r99 system, but simply saying the way resists and spells are atm is just not like it was on classic though the last patch made it closer.

The pvp resists here are not intended to be classic.

[SearyxTZ]

Null can we talk about making Flying Kick have a secondary lava bolt effect


This is very important

[Wolfgang]

Yo Null, gotta be the most down to Earf dev. can u hack my girlfriends hotmail?

[Dullah]

The pvp resists here are not intended to be classic.

That, I have a problem with.

The way pvp worked in classic EQ was perfectly fine as it was. I played casters and melees, my main being a monk and was content with the way things were. To this day, I've never played a pvp game I enjoyed more. Its certainly not nearly as good on r99 as it was on live so.... If somethings not broken, why fix it?

[Wolfgang]

i always thought vanilla wow had best pvp. massive open world faction based pvp. too bad blizzard trashed it. one thing i hate about eq pvp that can/will never change is zones. zones allow people to escape pvp, makes most engagements meaningless. i hate fighting near zonelines cuz you know loser gonna plug unless they legit like me.

[Dullah]

i always thought vanilla wow had best pvp. massive open world faction based pvp. too bad blizzard trashed it. one thing i hate about eq pvp that can/will never change is zones. zones allow people to escape pvp, makes most engagements meaningless. i hate fighting near zonelines cuz you know loser gonna plug unless they legit like me.

Except there was nothing worthwhile to fight over, the world was fragmented between places you could and could not fight, and the biggest objectives and accomplishments could be completed entirely uncontested. While the pvp was great, at the end of the day it meant nothing. There was no measure of success, no true victory, no lasting impact made on the world itself (or its inhabitants) by your actions. Basically what you did from day to day all existed temporarily, and could be practically achieved by anyone... just like everything in WoW.

[Wolfgang]

Except there was nothing worthwhile to fight over, the world was fragmented between places you could and could not fight, and the biggest objectives and accomplishments could be completed entirely uncontested. While the pvp was great, at the end of the day it meant nothing. There was no measure of success, no true victory, no lasting impact made on the world itself (or its inhabitants) by your actions. Basically what you did from day to day all existed temporarily, and could be basically achieved by anyone... just like everything in WoW.

true i guess its just pvp to pvp but isnt that the same shit here? srs pvp here doesnt impact world. not sure where you goin with this.

[azo313]

The pvp resists here are not intended to be classic.

Then why do you advertise this as "classic everquest." You try to make everything as close as possible to classic, yet you completely fail on the most important aspect of PvP. I suggest removing the words "classic everquset" from the P99 logo.

[Null]

You try to make everything as close as possible to classic, yet you completely fail on the most important aspect of PvP.

I am looking back at your post history and it seems your main issue is roots, have you played in the last few weeks?

[kprobe]

You're doing something wrong then. You'll get partials at 200 FR against Naggy just fine, but keep in mind it won't happen often because Naggy is level 55 and the max level is 50. You don't need pets at all to kill Naggy, he can be done with less than 3 groups even if you don't dodge the ae's (and if you wall the ae's then it's even easier - just time it so that your melees go behind the wall before he casts lava breath and you'll only need to focus your heals on the main tank).

I'm talking from personal experience, I have yet to seen a partial on a Vox/Naggy here on red that makes it worth stacking resists instead of hp or worth sending in melee (without wall hoppin). Fear seems to also have a decent chance to stick even at 330MR, again you have to peel instead of resist, not as it used to be in live.

The resists on the raid encounter do not match classic, and more importantly encourage the use of pets due to easier charming here than classic. I mean its fine if this is the intended effect, but somehow I think the resist values are encouraging non-classic approaches to raid mobs. Is this what we want? or do we want dragons to be raided with the right numbers with resists, instead of the now encouraged 4x rooted pets brought up from the backdoor?

I think you've been playing p99 too long and have forgotten what live used to be like. There are differences, and they encourage certain types of approaches.


On Pvp resists, I think they are fine as they are now, but fix the mage bolt and reintroduce dual line of sight requirement for casting.

[bamzal]

I second this.

The only other thing I think should be looked at is dragon AoE, no partials at 150-200cr/fr for duration of fight makes the resistances futile, and strategies then rely on dps bursting and lots of pets, each typically doing 90% of PC raid dps; none of which is particularly classic.

Back on live having resists in the 150ish region on dragons would bring down the aoe from 500 to about 270 average (personal experience), making melee useful not a liability.

This is just a drop in the bucket as to how game-breaking/altering the spell resist mechanics are. This is suppose to be a classic server, but this single non-classic mechanic is affecting entirely all other aspects of the server, giving the overall experience a feel of a custom server (with shitty pvp).

Anyone remember a pvp tactic called jousting??? Obvously Null DID NOT.

[bamzal]

resists and spells are atm is just not like it was on classic though the last patch made it closer.

[Lazortag]

I'm talking from personal experience, I have yet to seen a partial on a Vox/Naggy here on red that makes it worth stacking resists instead of hp or worth sending in melee (without wall hoppin). Fear seems to also have a decent chance to stick even at 330MR, again you have to peel instead of resist, not as it used to be in live.

The resists on the raid encounter do not match classic, and more importantly encourage the use of pets due to easier charming here than classic. I mean its fine if this is the intended effect, but somehow I think the resist values are encouraging non-classic approaches to raid mobs. Is this what we want? or do we want dragons to be raided with the right numbers with resists, instead of the now encouraged 4x rooted pets brought up from the backdoor?

I think you've been playing p99 too long and have forgotten what live used to be like. There are differences, and they encourage certain types of approaches.

I'm just saying that the way you describe naggy is not at all accurate to how he is on p99, and that you've probably just been unlucky, or someone in your group isn't stacking resists right. I've probably been on more naggy raids between both servers (plus Ragefire and Faydedar who are naggy clones) - correct me if I'm wrong though - so I feel I can give a better account of how hard the fight is. For a level 55 mob the resists seem fine, I've even compared this to everlore comments because I remember before kunark on blue99 going through an entire naggy fight without getting hit by either ae, and thinking it must be too easy. You have a very good chance of resisting the fear at high levels of MR, less chance of resisting lava breath, but still some chance of getting hit even at insanely high resists because he's 5 levels higher than you. Also I fail to see how it can be a better strategy to use pets when pets have a much higher chance of getting feared than players, since you can't buff their MR as high with Bard songs. If you're walling the ae's so that the pets don't get hit, then do the same with your non-pets. And you don't even need to wall hop - last time I killed naggy we had 17 people, didn't wall the ae's, and didn't use a single charmed pet, so I'm thinking you just had bad luck.

[kprobe]

I'm just saying that the way you describe naggy is not at all accurate to how he is on p99, and that you've probably just been unlucky, or someone in your group isn't stacking resists right. I've probably been on more naggy raids between both servers (plus Ragefire and Faydedar who are naggy clones) - correct me if I'm wrong though - so I feel I can give a better account of how hard the fight is. For a level 55 mob the resists seem fine, I've even compared this to everlore comments because I remember before kunark on blue99 going through an entire naggy fight without getting hit by either ae, and thinking it must be too easy. You have a very good chance of resisting the fear at high levels of MR, less chance of resisting lava breath, but still some chance of getting hit even at insanely high resists because he's 5 levels higher than you. Also I fail to see how it can be a better strategy to use pets when pets have a much higher chance of getting feared than players, since you can't buff their MR as high with Bard songs. If you're walling the ae's so that the pets don't get hit, then do the same with your non-pets. And you don't even need to wall hop - last time I killed naggy we had 17 people, didn't wall the ae's, and didn't use a single charmed pet, so I'm thinking you just had bad luck.

That may be how it is on blue/p99 its not how it was back in live.

Also pets work cause you root em that along with the fact each does about 80-110% of PC raid dps makes for a bursty fight.

[biscuits2455]

Just want classic, classic is not getting perma stunned and raped by clerics. Clerics shouldn't be able land their magic based spells in high level pvp with 100+ MR.

Maybe you shouldnt stand at a zoneline at 10% life while a cleric chain nukes and stuns you to death even with resists? I mean... zone or something.

[AppleJacks]

All I see is a lot of FF half ass complaining with no real evidence to back anything up... Bamzal is clearly upset that I killed him. It's not my fault he thought he was awesome and decided to spend 15 minutes fighting a mage pet. Finally zoned into UGuk at 20% hp.. I followed.. nuked twice (both of which u partially resisted) and you DIED. :) Take a look at the SS Retribution doesn't hit for 177, it usually hits for 400ish pvp therefore you partially resisted! Do your research whiny baby. And for the record all my roots/stuns/blind hardly ever land anymore at level 50 pvp since resists were tweaked. I think they are fine the way they are. I have over 120 FR and CR and I still get IC and Starfired for full damage. Here is the lesson learned for Bamzal.. don't fight mage pets, DUMB, and don't sit there (you resisted 4 roots) and let a cleric nuke you when you have less than 500 hp! <3 Good day.

http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/509/bamzalvsapple.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/834/bamzalvsapple.jpg/) Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

[jdklaw]

I'm talking from personal experience, I have yet to seen a partial on a Vox/Naggy here on red that makes it worth stacking resists instead of hp or worth sending in melee (without wall hoppin). Fear seems to also have a decent chance to stick even at 330MR, again you have to peel instead of resist, not as it used to be in live.

The resists on the raid encounter do not match classic, and more importantly encourage the use of pets due to easier charming here than classic. I mean its fine if this is the intended effect, but somehow I think the resist values are encouraging non-classic approaches to raid mobs. Is this what we want? or do we want dragons to be raided with the right numbers with resists, instead of the now encouraged 4x rooted pets brought up from the backdoor?

I think you've been playing p99 too long and have forgotten what live used to be like. There are differences, and they encourage certain types of approaches.


On Pvp resists, I think they are fine as they are now, but fix the mage bolt and reintroduce dual line of sight requirement for casting.

personal experience on dragons from a founding father member.

lol'd

[heartbrand]

Resists weren't very helpful vs significantly higher level mobs on Live either. Fuck even in Live with 755 to all resists or w/e it's capped @ currently I still get hit by everything from NPC's. As far as the actual discussion, which is resists vs. PC's, it was known that almost all magic spells were completely worthless but yet hear even with 200+ MR I consistently get mezzed, nuked, etc. My only real complaint about it is that for a server that consistently tells us "you can't have X cuz not classic" it sure seems hard to change the BIGGEST aspect of EQ PVP which is resists, to not be classic. It doesn't hurt or help me so it's not a cry, just an observation. Personally, I have no issue with nukes being scaled by resists, but CC spells need to be almost 100% resistant above 100ish MR. No other game has CC spells the like that EQ does where you can literally lock people down an entire fight.

[Seaweedpimp]

I'm just saying that the way you describe naggy is not at all accurate to how he is on p99, and that you've probably just been unlucky, or someone in your group isn't stacking resists right. I've probably been on more naggy raids between both servers (plus Ragefire and Faydedar who are naggy clones) - correct me if I'm wrong though - so I feel I can give a better account of how hard the fight is. For a level 55 mob the resists seem fine, I've even compared this to everlore comments because I remember before kunark on blue99 going through an entire naggy fight without getting hit by either ae, and thinking it must be too easy. You have a very good chance of resisting the fear at high levels of MR, less chance of resisting lava breath, but still some chance of getting hit even at insanely high resists because he's 5 levels higher than you. Also I fail to see how it can be a better strategy to use pets when pets have a much higher chance of getting feared than players, since you can't buff their MR as high with Bard songs. If you're walling the ae's so that the pets don't get hit, then do the same with your non-pets. And you don't even need to wall hop - last time I killed naggy we had 17 people, didn't wall the ae's, and didn't use a single charmed pet, so I'm thinking you just had bad luck.

shouldnt nagafen be 53?

on blue nexona is like this, nobody stacks fire resist, because with 400 fire resist you are going to resist 1/10.

[Seaweedpimp]

Resists weren't very helpful vs significantly higher level mobs on Live either. Fuck even in Live with 755 to all resists or w/e it's capped @ currently I still get hit by everything from NPC's. As far as the actual discussion, which is resists vs. PC's, it was known that almost all magic spells were completely worthless but yet hear even with 200+ MR I consistently get mezzed, nuked, etc. My only real complaint about it is that for a server that consistently tells us "you can't have X cuz not classic" it sure seems hard to change the BIGGEST aspect of EQ PVP which is resists, to not be classic. It doesn't hurt or help me so it's not a cry, just an observation. Personally, I have no issue with nukes being scaled by resists, but CC spells need to be almost 100% resistant above 100ish MR. No other game has CC spells the like that EQ does where you can literally lock people down an entire fight.


Dude i have a hell of a time landing mezzes, whirls etc on a raid buffed nihil..

Ill admit im still not finished with my sol ro tash, so i use a terrible tash, but i can still seem to land a mez 1/6ish on a well MR'd target. If youre say 47 or so, with 90 mr, be prepared to get mezzed 4/5 times, rooted 3/5 times.

[bamzal]

All I see is a lot of FF half ass complaining with no real evidence to back anything up... Bamzal is clearly upset that I killed him. It's not my fault he thought he was awesome and decided to spend 15 minutes fighting a mage pet. Finally zoned into UGuk at 20% hp.. I followed.. nuked twice (both of which u partially resisted) and you DIED. :) Take a look at the SS Retribution doesn't hit for 177, it usually hits for 400ish pvp therefore you partially resisted! Do your research whiny baby. And for the record all my roots/stuns/blind hardly ever land anymore at level 50 pvp since resists were tweaked. I think they are fine the way they are. I have over 120 FR and CR and I still get IC and Starfired for full damage. Here is the lesson learned for Bamzal.. don't fight mage pets, DUMB, and don't sit there (you resisted 4 roots) and let a cleric nuke yo:pu when you have less than 500 hp! <3 Good day.

Oh, hai Apple! Nice that you could pop in and determine why this thread is such a hot topic... Looks like you nailed it. :rolleyes:

I guess you only read the first post. That, or else you just have nothing of value to add to this discussion; which is regarding what PvP was really like during the classical era (what this server should try to mimic).

Since you clearly have no idea, please go re-read some of my previous posts in this thread. Also, I'll throw up some more classical era pvp-related posts for you to further familiarize yourself with.

Get back to me when it clicks in :p

[heartbrand]

Maybe I just have terrible luck but I got chain snared/bard mezzed vs Tune the other day @ 230~ MR, and you landed a Mezz on me for lol's the other day when I was bard buffed at 365 MR. That seems retarded to me.

[bamzal]

Oh and Apple, if you want to get all technical over our little 1v2 encounter.. http://pastebin.com/ZU7nQWF7

Enjoy the read, nothing to hide here :)

Ohya and attacking the pet? Wow you really are clueless.

Best part is the 10 second cleric stun near the end :p
That or the guy saying don't get mad, get glad

[bamzal]

I'd love to compare logs tho

[Lazortag]

Maybe I just have terrible luck but I got chain snared/bard mezzed vs Tune the other day @ 230~ MR, and you landed a Mezz on me for lol's the other day when I was bard buffed at 365 MR. That seems retarded to me.

I thought you said you never fought Bards? Also how the fuck did you get 365 MR without access to a Bard with a naggy drum?

[Tr0llb0rn]

I thought you said you never fought Bards? Also how the fuck did you get 365 MR without access to a Bard with a naggy drum?

Just more heartbrand lies.

[kprobe]

I thought you said you never fought Bards? Also how the fuck did you get 365 MR without access to a Bard with a naggy drum?

Base mr of 186ish, gmr 50(55?), 2x62 bard songs, grand total of 360.

Naggy drums are 72 per song instead

[bamzal]

Apple you're gonna get a kick outta this one...

http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/showpost.php?p=853&postcount=7
http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/showthread.php?t=103

06-05-2000, 04:55 PM
A few things...

First off is flash of light will usually work on pets and make them go wild and just run around, though sometimes a pet will keep coming anyway, or get lucky and collide with you.

Being a cleric PvP is difficult in that it is very hard to kill anyone, though at the same time we are a very surviveable class for reason other posters have stated. At very low levels we meelee alright and get some good spells, so this is probably when we are at our peak offensively, by ourselves.

However by 50, our 500 point DD (retribution) is next to useless, it is so easy to resist. Most people you will be trying to kill with it, if theyre not completely inept, will be wearing a lot of throw away resistance gear. It only takes maybe 40 or 50 points of magic resistance and our spells will be doing next to no damage (maybe 100 dmg with luck, wont even dent a wizzie at that level). With a magic resistance of around 100, we can measure our dmg in the low 20's, if even that With smite at 14 and Wrath at 29 this is not such a big problem as a lot of the PKS arent as often equipped with gear like this, and our spells will land for better damage.

One of the biggest, most crucial things I've learned is that our level 5 or 9 dd (i forget which, tho i think lvl 5) is called Furor...and it cost under 20 mana with a cast time of something like 1.5. This spell is amazing- it interrupts an opponents casting 9 out of 10 times as long as their backs are not to a wall. Unlike our stuns which I used to use to interrupt casters, this spell is almost never resisted and costs virtually no mana.

Another two tricks concern enchanters, who can mesmerize us and tashan(i) us, both of which can really hurt our abilitys to fight. Any version of tashani will be canceled by our lvl 1 poison spell. Furthermore, having a dot on you will keep you from being mezzed ( a dotted thing cannot be mesmerized). So a necro or SK with disease cloud can make you immune to mez style spells

Finally, our buffs and pumices. At higher levels most pkers will lead with using a pumice stone (5 charges of dispell magic). This will strip us of all our wonderful buffs, which takes a lot of our ability to take damage away. I reccomend you do the same, carry pumices around hotkeyed and you can use them on pkers to nullify any buffs they have, or cancel snares/roots on yourself.

Hope this helps, and be a DE man no point in being human :P

------------------
Noelm Sanguineous, 49, <The Elven Brotherhood>, Rallos Zek
__________________
Noelm Sanguineous, 52
&lt;The Elven Brotherhood&gt;
Rallos Zek

^ Thanks for helping me prove my point Neolm, such a relevant post.

[bamzal]

I should be charging people for these history lessons here

[Seaweedpimp]

\ http://pastebin.com/ZU7nQWF7


He even records his fights like is 1999.

nice

[A1551]

O man I had this strange feeling I was gonna get quoted on that post from back on the day on EQcleric!

Not gonna lie reading this post and hearing I could play a cleric again and actually hurt ppl is tempting. I will say back on Rallos Zek the only class I could routinely curbstomp solo were naked wizards -- which happened to be a fairly common encounter. Basically anyone else and all I could do solo was just be ridiculously hard to kill.

[bamzal]

Do you play on blue, or how did you know i just qouted u from 2000?
It feels like not many people here actually experienced classic everquest PvP.
Glad to have someone else around who actually understands what they are talking about.

[bamzal]

The pvp resists here are not intended to be classic.

Damn, that really sucks.

[Lazortag]

The pvp resists here are not intended to be classic.

I appreciate your work but I just don't understand this. Why do you think your resist system is better than classic? Classic resists were at least kind of balanced, here there's almost no point in rolling a melee unless you're insanely twinked. Because of this most high-end content is going to be impossible to get through. Like I've said before, good luck getting past isle 4 in sky with no melees and a dozen druids.

I just feel like it delegitimizes the server and turns off a lot of potential new players when they find out that the strategies they could have used in classic don't work here. It promotes completely skill-less pvp where players need their opponent to be standing still to kill them. It's also unfair for melees like I said, and I don't see how making things non-classically harder for classes that already have lots of trouble soloing is a good idea.

[Jabber]

Op filled with furious rage

[FoxxHound]

Op filled with furious rage

[Amuk]

I appreciate your work but I just don't understand this. Why do you think your resist system is better than classic? Classic resists were at least kind of balanced, here there's almost no point in rolling a melee unless you're insanely twinked. Because of this most high-end content is going to be impossible to get through. Like I've said before, good luck getting past isle 4 in sky with no melees and a dozen druids.

I just feel like it delegitimizes the server and turns off a lot of potential new players when they find out that the strategies they could have used in classic don't work here. It promotes completely skill-less pvp where players need their opponent to be standing still to kill them. It's also unfair for melees like I said, and I don't see how making things non-classically harder for classes that already have lots of trouble soloing is a good idea.

Guess you arn't a complete dumb fuck.

[Dullah]

I appreciate your work but I just don't understand this. Why do you think your resist system is better than classic? Classic resists were at least kind of balanced, here there's almost no point in rolling a melee unless you're insanely twinked. Because of this most high-end content is going to be impossible to get through. Like I've said before, good luck getting past isle 4 in sky with no melees and a dozen druids.

I just feel like it delegitimizes the server and turns off a lot of potential new players when they find out that the strategies they could have used in classic don't work here. It promotes completely skill-less pvp where players need their opponent to be standing still to kill them. It's also unfair for melees like I said, and I don't see how making things non-classically harder for classes that already have lots of trouble soloing is a good idea.
Nice to agree on something, even if its as glaringly obvious as this.

[Palemoon]

Classic resists were at least kind of balanced, here there's almost no point in rolling a melee unless you're insanely twinked.


In my opinion, as a melee main, melee are already more powerful then casters and we are not even at kunark yet. Its only going to get worse.

Null's custom resist system is good for the long term balance and health of the server.

Does someone here really think that the top meele on this server are weaker then the top casters???? AND we are just in classic and sky is not even out yet.

[Wolfgang]

a geared melee will wreck a caster up. not sure whats the problem.

[heartbrand]

In my opinion, as a melee main, melee are already more powerful then casters and we are not even at kunark yet. Its only going to get worse.

Null's custom resist system is good for the long term balance and health of the server.

Does someone here really think that the top meele on this server are weaker then the top casters???? AND we are just in classic and sky is not even out yet.

argues for classic in multiple threads, says resists need to be custom, moran detected

[Runya]

sup negro

O man I had this strange feeling I was gonna get quoted on that post from back on the day on EQcleric!

Not gonna lie reading this post and hearing I could play a cleric again and actually hurt ppl is tempting. I will say back on Rallos Zek the only class I could routinely curbstomp solo were naked wizards -- which happened to be a fairly common encounter. Basically anyone else and all I could do solo was just be ridiculously hard to kill.

[jdklaw]

Maybe I just have terrible luck but I got chain snared/bard mezzed vs Tune the other day @ 230~ MR, and you landed a Mezz on me for lol's the other day when I was bard buffed at 365 MR. That seems retarded to me.

lol 230 MR

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_w4KrwqY9Z6I/TCY9ycO9NKI/AAAAAAAAAkw/TgKL4C7Toz0/s400/35db7ec3521b50c3f29351c9f60f282bf06731d4_m.jpg

[heartbrand]

Warrior inate 50 + tranix crown 20 + diamond mask 3 + 2x bracer 14 + mith arms legs 10 + two jac ring 26 + rbf 10 +bs mantle 10 + wgn 7 + 2x magic ear 10

That's 160 unbuffed with gmr 225 before bard song

[Seaweedpimp]

lol 230 MR

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_w4KrwqY9Z6I/TCY9ycO9NKI/AAAAAAAAAkw/TgKL4C7Toz0/s400/35db7ec3521b50c3f29351c9f60f282bf06731d4_m.jpg

What kind or retard thinks it hard to get 230 mr in classic?


Rettiwalk does.

[Lazortag]

In my opinion, as a melee main, melee are already more powerful then casters and we are not even at kunark yet. Its only going to get worse.

Null's custom resist system is good for the long term balance and health of the server.

Does someone here really think that the top meele on this server are weaker then the top casters???? AND we are just in classic and sky is not even out yet.

Even if it were true that melees are stronger than non-melees at the high end, they're still much weaker at earlier levels and have a much harder time soloing. I think it actually balances the game a lot more to make melees more desirable in pvp while non-melees are better soloers when it comes to pve. When you're discussing what's best for the server's development, you don't look at how it is for the players who've already made it to higher levels - you have to ask how things are for lower leveled players who have the highest risk of quitting. Obviously you can debate the merits of either resist system, but if it's unclear which is better, I think we should defer to the system that's more classic since this is a classic server.

[jdklaw]

Warrior inate 50 + tranix crown 20 + diamond mask 3 + 2x bracer 14 + mith arms legs 10 + two jac ring 26 + rbf 10 +bs mantle 10 + wgn 7 + 2x magic ear 10

That's 160 unbuffed with gmr 225 before bard song

160 + GMR 55 = 215

http://s3.favim.com/orig/41/funny-lol-math-text-Favim.com-341789.jpg

[heartbrand]

Shown to be wrong about easy of self buffed mr resorts to i
Gifs. Checkmate owned again

[jdklaw]

Shown to be wrong about easy of self buffed mr resorts to i
Gifs. Checkmate owned again

http://scienceblogs.com/ethicsandscience/upload/2006/09/sad_puppy.jpg

[heartbrand]

lol dum poster is dum

[Mornin3.0]

havent read this thread.. sure it has been riveting conversation.

[heartbrand]

The pvp resists here are not intended to be classic.

Monk botb with weapons fun jousting etc.? Not classic not allowed. Gotta love it.

[Fentanyl]

I play a lvl 24 wiz. Most of this discussion has been about higher lvls... I don't know about that on this sever. Maybe I never will because I get resisted A LOT. PVE and PVP. Lvl 20 to 24 wasn't easy with my main nuke being magic based. Constant resists. I've played other pvp and at lvl 20ish I destroyed people. I once killed 3 people within my range in one fight. At the time people weren't saying wiz were too OP. Nevertheless I would have trouble killing anyone here, especially the lvl 20 rogues with Ragebringers.

[SamwiseRed]

lay off the drugs dude

[Fentanyl]

I am but thank you for your obvious concern.