DROID does: EQ

[ShadowWulf]

EDIT: Go to page 2 to see new information, including video footage of Project 1999 pulling more than 15+FPS on a phone. Go to page 4 for a final full write up on the process, links, and everything else you need to know or might just be curious about! This first post is now outdated and left merely as a history reference for what DOES NOT work! Page 4 for new guide!

EDIT2: This is all rather outdated, im using APP assisted means now, getting 30-40 FPS in nearly all games with a few minor bugs still to be worked out. The app assisted route was the way to go for visual quality and speed. Considering recent news articles and getting posted on BluesNews I would like to say thanks to the P99 devs for an awesome server! Also, this type of gaming is not recomended for everyone, to optain my eventual goal of 50-60fps its going to take alot so if you melt your phone with a 4x overclock its not my fault! Also stay tuned for an eventual Custom ROM for DROID 1 owners, a stripped down superclocked naked rom that does nothing but play games.

So i got bored and wanted to see how P1999 performed on an android.

TOOLS:
Moto DROID
Bugless Beast 1.0 ROM
7x slot 1.2GHz overclock CPU kernel
SETCPU clocked and locked at 1.2 GHZ, performance power profile
101Mb system memory ram available at the time via AGGRESSIVE as hell system process cutting
Android VNC (DROID side) and TightVNC (PC side) across a wireless LAN (This also works off the lan over 3g btw, but its REALLLLY slow then)
Screenshot app used is ShootME.
PC SIDE: Yea i didnt think about it and left EQ maxed gfx wise, everything cranked up, video card running at 16x AA+AF. Poor choice.

I experimented running it in GrayScale, 8 color, 256 Color and 24bit color, and all the different scaling options (Hence why some screens are full scree and others are unscaled)

http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/1471/snap20100512201128.png

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/8475/snap20100512201047.png

oooooops.....yea its buggy what do you expect?!
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/6372/snap20100512194427.png

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/2539/snap20100512194033.png

RESULT: Piss SLOWWWW....though honestly I dont think its as much to do with CPU speed at this point, most likely VNC itself is causing the bottleneck somewhere, bandwidth is definitely impacted though by leaving the client at insane settings that my ACER netbook gets 5-10 fps at also.

Total FPS: .0001 - 2 FPS depending on color depth and action on screen. Ill experiment more in the future with different servers to broadcast from. However everything does work, moving, mouse control, chat, spells (I tried some buffing there in oasis) everything except sound. BTW every app and program EXCEPT for SetCPU is a free download.

edit: Im sure the more technically astute will say "Theres no big deal in this" Except for a game to run, even marginally through a VC is on a damn PHONE is cool, and its a fun project. My goal, is 5 fps at all times on the droid, for shits and giggles. Well see how it goes eh?

[hyzon]

This is the kinda stuff that makes me consider putting my old G1 to rest and upgrading =P

[ShadowWulf]

This is the kinda stuff that makes me consider putting my old G1 to rest and upgrading =P

Almost makes me want to put my droid to rest and get an HTC incredible but im holding off. The ROM scene has alot of work to make the incredible worth all that cash AGAIN, and there is as of yet no way to OC the incredible. Maybe with the added RAM and a POSSIBLE Overclock to 2 GHZ it might be worth it next year.

For now though the droid is more than capable when set up right. Now back to the bat cave!

256-Color Mode here.
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/8882/snap20100512211027.png

http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/4873/snap20100512210901.png

[Pyrocat]

hahaha you are a genius

[Pyrocat]

if you can get EQ running on the HTC Incredible at anything close to 10FPS I am buying one immediately.

[ShadowWulf]

if you can get EQ running on the HTC Incredible at anything close to 10FPS I am buying one immediately.

Exceedingly doubtful for several reasons, the bigest being that VNC clients just suck ass as properly streaming content like a game. The droid does great even over 3g though for desktop tasks and file transfers.

Even at 1.2 GHz and a heavily optimized ROM with every resource dedicated to this im still crapping out UNDER 3 fps. a 5FPS goal might be doable, but im doubting 10 on any device unless I had a hard wired 100 mbs phone. The droid only does, in my house, wireless G as is and thus its caped under 54mbs. I do believe one thing the droid does better than the Incredible(when overclocked this high) is GFX's. The Incredible lacks a dedicated GFX processor like the droid has, but the additional RAM in the incredible makes up for that.

[Dawgrin]

Wow that is pretty incredible...I wonder if it could be made to run on the phone itself rather than through VNC. I guess that would take a dedicated graphics processor though...

[toddfx]

I tried this using LogMeIn on my iPhone with even worse results! It was about 1 frame every 5 seconds using 3G, and the mechanics of walking (lack of arrow keys) would make it impossible to do anything other than chat.

I also tested it using LogMeIn as well as VNC between two networked computers with pretty much the same results. My screen resolution was 1024x768 and EQ was running in windowed mode. LogMeIn was set to low image quality and lowest resolution.

I'm somewhat surprised it's so slow in-game even over networked machines. Outside of games, in the normal desktop setting, I get pretty much real-time interaction on my iPhone over 3G. I guess there is more color information being sent when in a game, but it can't be THAT much more.

I wonder if just limiting the frame rate on the desktop end would make any difference? If there are a fewer amount of frames being sent from the source, maybe VNC/LogMeIn would have a slightly better chance of keeping up?

Also perhaps opting for one of the paid subscriptions would allow for a higher bandwith. If 3G can stream video, I firmly believe it is technically possible to stream a game :) Somehow.

[FatMagic]

Shadow,

I was TOTALLY looking for something like this... so the trick is using a VNC client. But total bummer on the FPS. 5 FPS is even pretty junk to play on I would imagine. Maybe buying/selling or chatting would be about all you can do on this.

Keep us up to date on your results.... i may end up trying this w/ my Droid depending on your results.

[ShadowWulf]

Humm, still researching and playing around...

a 1024x768 display in 8 bit color requires 6,291,456 bits, so on a 20Mbit line you could get about 3 frames a second.
At 54Mbs, THEORETICALLY 6 FPS should be possible.

EDIT: Video proof comming soon.

15 FPS on the OCd droid playing EQ

[Sadface]

Nicely Done

[ShadowWulf]

Ok heres the video proof.

Ok, bad video quality I had to use my wife's ERIS to record this, but at least you can be relatively sure its not a fake eh? If someone actually doubts this THAT much ill record chatting and buffing them via the phone.

Temps hit 104 F at the highest for the phone. A tad warm but not dangerously unsafe. Again the phone was clocked at 1.2 GHz, wireless connection (54MBs).

Everything works EXCEPT for some reason i cant get the arrow keys to translate properly, but casting, chatting, jumping, buffing, combat everything works.

Average FPS was about 15ish and maybe quite a bit higher when zoomed in. Multi touch works.

The app that enables this kind of gameplay is PhoneMyPC via the market, but i strongly recommend a good OC and a custom performance rooted ROM to get anything approaching playable performance like this.

Also an insanely fast MicroSD care swap like the Kingston CLASS 10 16Gb is well worth it, its responsible for seriously speeding up swap and load times. (For comparison, the MicroSD in all stock cell phones is a class 2, meaning 2 MB/s max, where a Class 10 is 10 MB/s rate).

First video attempt, outside the gates of East Freeport
TEMP INFO: Temps got up to 40c during this test, and stabilized
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duaJz_RoKh0

Second video attempt, on the oasis docks. More going on, a group is fighting (I cast a few spells as well), particles, spell effects, combat, and zooms and pans.
TEMP INFO: Temperature again got up t0 44c (104f) during this test and stabilized. FYI the droid is rated by motorola up to 70c (200f)!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEQqgoaOlZA

Last Video: This time i start with the keyboard closed and the client in vertical mode, then demonstrate the client rotation to landscape..aaaaand some random clicking and zooming around because im tired and its late and i need sleep.
TEMP INFO: 42c this time, HOWEVER something caused a lovely crash right after i finished filming and rebooted the phone totally. Upon reboot the temp was already back to 36c so im figuring a client error and not temperature.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_NIyAoNFt4


the official specs on the droid's ARM cortex a8 processor, the operating temperature is 0c to 90c (standard applications), and -40c to 105c (extreme applications). Either way the minimum max temp is 90C (194F).

[SaltySam420]

drang just told me about this. . .

WOW BADASS!

it looks like it runs fairly good on that overclocked phone o yours.

minus the camera quality that looks really good.

CHEERS! im going to keep my eye on this thread

[Omnimorph]

Playing EQ whilst waiting for the bus or something might possibly be the future i envisioned in 1999... everyone else was picturing flying cars and artificial humans... not me!

[guineapig]

Scary... Now I can have EQ on my phone and my thumb drive... I'm tempted but am resisting the urge.

[Dawgrin]

Has anyone had a chance to try this on an HTC Droid Incredible yet? I am not sure how it would work without a physical keyboard like the Moto Droid has, is it possible to connect a small usb keyboard to one of these phones via the micro USB port?

I have never wanted a smart phone until this day...and now I am sooooo close to buying one...=)

[ShadowWulf]

Has anyone had a chance to try this on an HTC Droid Incredible yet? I am not sure how it would work without a physical keyboard like the Moto Droid has, is it possible to connect a small usb keyboard to one of these phones via the micro USB port?

I have never wanted a smart phone until this day...and now I am sooooo close to buying one...=)

A soft keyboard interface is usable on the screen, but it tends to suck pretty bad. Also having played with an incredible AND the droid, one in each hand yesterday running parallel tasks i must say i find the screen on the Incredible to suck ass. You can SEE the individual pixels, much like the eris my wife has, and it drives me absolutely insane.

Also i dont think anybody else but me is doing this so far as Project 1999 is concerned as of yet.

[FatMagic]

Shadow,

Does dropping the resolution & effects in the game change the FPS at all? I don't mind playing the game on a low resolution without spell effects and such if it increases FPS. Or is the speed of the FPS completely dependent upon the PhoneMyPC Client?

Also.. your tests are being done inside your house via Wireless. Have you tried it outside your home from another WiFi hotspot? This will be the situation that many of us will be in - wanting to play at work/school/library/etc and connecting to our computer at home.

Also I'm running 1GHZ Rom on my Droid... do you suggest the 1.2ghz rom for doing this?

BTW man this is fricken genius, I was wanting to see someone pull this off :)
And if you can do this with EQ... you can do it with any game since it's a Remote desktop type solution.

[Zephys]

Lol this is awesome.

[guineapig]

Dawgrin 65 Paladin of Morell Thule (Retired)
Dawgrit 85 Paladin of Erollisi Marr (Semi-Retired)
Dawgrin 5 Paladin of Project1999

Yo dawg, we heard you like Paladins! :D

[ShadowWulf]

Shadow,

Does dropping the resolution & effects in the game change the FPS at all? I don't mind playing the game on a low resolution without spell effects and such if it increases FPS. Or is the speed of the FPS completely dependent upon the PhoneMyPC Client?

Also.. your tests are being done inside your house via Wireless. Have you tried it outside your home from another WiFi hotspot? This will be the situation that many of us will be in - wanting to play at work/school/library/etc and connecting to our computer at home.

Also I'm running 1GHZ Rom on my Droid... do you suggest the 1.2ghz rom for doing this?

BTW man this is fricken genius, I was wanting to see someone pull this off :)
And if you can do this with EQ... you can do it with any game since it's a Remote desktop type solution.


Im installing a 2nd client that ill use to tweak the game settings (I dont wanna mess with my now perfect desktop setup that i play nightly!) and im going to try dropping to 1024x768 resolution (Oh yea, i forgot to mention those videos were all filmed with the display set to 1680x1050!!) and minimal partical effects.

Also I have a trip to home depot to make today, so ill do some 3g tests out in the field, though I do live in Los Angeles so we get 3g about anywhere at max signal. Ive tested 1.0ghz also, works well, 1.2 is obviously a LITTLE faster but the phone can become a little bit on the warm side, ill try and flash a 1.3 GHz kernel also later on and see how stable that is.

[Dawgrin]

Also having played with an incredible AND the droid, one in each hand yesterday running parallel tasks i must say i find the screen on the Incredible to suck ass. You can SEE the individual pixels, much like the eris my wife has, and it drives me absolutely insane.


That sucks...=/ I had been led to believe that the screen on the incredible was at least as good if not better than the one on the droid by all of those techno pundits. Here is an example of what they were saying...


http://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/devices/motorola-droid-vs-htc-incredible/

Display
Winner: HTC Incredible

Both phones use 3.7-inch screens with similar resolution (the Droid has 480 x 854 and the Incredible has 480 x 800), but the victory goes to HTC for choosing an OLED screen over LCD. As Nexus One owners can attest, LCDs quite literally pale in comparison to the brightness and vibrance of a quality OLED. Unfortunately, they’re known for problems with outdoor viewability as well, but it’s a minor tradeoff in the big scheme of things.

lol I guess I will just wait for a bit in and see how all this plays out befor a make any decisions...=)

[Dawgrin]

Yo dawg, we heard you like Paladins! :D

You heard correctly!

I also have a paladin in EQ2, a paladin on Shards of Dalaya and a paladin on EZServer...=p

[guineapig]

You heard correctly!

I also have a paladin in EQ2, a paladin on Shards of Dalaya and a paladin on EZServer...=p

Ha!, nice. Not surprised ;)



On a side note, I'm guessing the battery would last about an hour unplugged with the above specs, correct?

[ShadowWulf]

Ha!, nice. Not surprised ;)



On a side note, I'm guessing the battery would last about an hour unplugged with the above specs, correct?

Yea about that.

Funny thing with the droid is i use it as a phone less and less and a computer more and more....

[km2783]

As soon as I read VNC I stopped reading :D

[ShadowWulf]

As soon as I read VNC I stopped reading :D

Cool bro. Guess you didnt read the very first line in the first post though, huh?

New Video: Running around oasis this time! Yep full movement up the beach to wave and sit with another group! Btw the FPS in game are better than the video shows, the ERIS i used to record with and youtube combined make it appear much slower than it actually is.

This is also running at 1024x768, 32 bit color, sky off, LOD on as the first performance tweaking tests.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHWZM3EwDWY

[FatMagic]

That is sweet man... awesome! 15 FPS is definitely playable. Let me know results of remote test...

BTW can you remap keys for the Droid? Wondering how you can get the "TAB" function there.

EDIT:
Eek! $10 for the PhoneMyPC app... stinker. Would have paid $2 for it, maybe $5. Darn.

[guineapig]

I have the bestest phone =)
I'm so proud!!!

Thanks for sharing the awesomeness with us ShadowWulf!

[km2783]

Cool bro. Guess you didnt read the very first line in the first post though, huh?

New Video: Running around oasis this time! Yep full movement up the beach to wave and sit with another group! Btw the FPS in game are better than the video shows, the ERIS i used to record with and youtube combined make it appear much slower than it actually is.

This is also running at 1024x768, 32 bit color, sky off, LOD on as the first performance tweaking tests.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHWZM3EwDWY

well I'll be. Only thing I've ever seen of people doing stuff like this over VNC was was misery incarnate. that's pretty playable.

[ShadowWulf]

That is sweet man... awesome! 15 FPS is definitely playable. Let me know results of remote test...

BTW can you remap keys for the Droid? Wondering how you can get the "TAB" function there.

EDIT:
Eek! $10 for the PhoneMyPC app... stinker. Would have paid $2 for it, maybe $5. Darn.

Trust me, its worth the investment. The testing and modifications im doing combined with the apps functionality make this WELLLL worth it, not just for EQ but other things as well. And yes most any key can be bound or used, even accessing system properties and tasks.


EDIT: Heres the results of the first 3g test.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_jDVS1Zvlg
This video was done with wireless disabled, only running off the 3G connection. Performance is noticeably slower compared to wireless. However, the client was running at max detail, 1680x1050 resolution with all effects, view distances, actors, AA 8x and AF 8x cranked up.
At the end of the video you see me pop back out and actually re-enable the wireless so you can be assured it was off. Ill need to do some client tweaking and its looking like turning off the sky, particles, view distance and lowering the resolution will go a long ways performance wise.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CODMGX5dNc
Ok final 3G connectivity test. Client running windowed mode, 1024x768 res, ALL effects off except particles because i forgot, lowest clip plane possible, all HW Shaders totally off, LOD etc etc.

And sorry if it moved alot during filming, i have a puppy sleeping on my lap and she kept nudging both phones.

[FatMagic]

Definitely some low FPS over 3g... so it looks like a more "WiFi" thing to be pulling off at a good FPS.
Thanks for the results Shadow

[Fraud]

Gasp.

[ShadowWulf]

Gasp.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bGPo0O4sKA

Live filming, healing a group in actual gameplay circumstances. I dont recomend doing this btw, its very tricky. Even more so one handed (Holding the other droid to film with in my other hand!) and trying to keep everything still and film able.

Starbuck/Fraud asked that I not heal the group on the phone. So of course thats exactly what i wanted to try for at least one pull.

[BuzWeaver]

Interesting. I wouldn't have thought to run the game on my Droid. I'm guessing your phone is rooted? Since the 2.1 patch the performance of the phone has gone down slightly, in an effort no doubt to help with battery conservation. I've not tried to play Quake yet either.

[FatMagic]

You know you could probably make a UI suited just for the Droid... stuff like really large buttons that are easier to press.. such as targetting for your group members. That would make this more easily playable on the Droid.

[Falisaty]

so just to confirm the game isnt loaded on the phone... the phone is using a remote desktop app using a vnc connection?

[ShadowWulf]

OK FINAL RUNDOWN!

Running Project 1999 EQ on the DROID, the easy and fastest way!

WARNING: Before we begin im making it very clear that my methods require at least a basic knowledge of computers, your ANDROID device and common sense.

1. You do NOT have to root your droid or overclock it HOWEVER I strongly recommend you do! Both for everything it enables your droid to do, the FUN of it, but also the raw performance difference is simply staggering for an application like this.

2. This is NOT a VNC solution, its a proprietary one that as of now is the ONLY way you're going to run EQ at anything approaching a "usable" FPS. One the plus side this app works for almost ANYTHING on your PC, you can easily manage your desktop, other games, anything. So besides EQ its got alot of nifty uses!

3. Unfortunately the app is not free, NO its not my app so im not making shit off this, just trying to share some nifty information that enables EQ's or other tinker and mod oriented people to get their rocks off.
The app is available on the market, its called PHONEMYPC and its $10...yikes i know but its got so many other uses I found it WELL worth the cash.
Its not a VNC app it actually translates your PC into the equivalent of a mpeg4 video then streams that -live- MUCH faster that would be other wise possible. It allows full mouse, keyboard, and all special key use. So youre looking AT you pc as if youre in front of it, but on your droid instead. System tools work, task manager all of it.

4. This works on WiFi and 3G both, anywhere. Of course for GAMING im saying you basically NEED to be on a wifi hotspot somewhere. McDonalds, the library, work whatever it all works fine. Save dedicated 3G for desktop stuff and non gaming, that works fine.

5. Again, the faster the ANDROID device the better off you'll be. The app does support soft keyboards for non-DROID users as well, but I have not tested them personally as my DROID has a keyboard. Incredible users at a stock 1.o GHz should be pretty well off, for gaming id definitly root and overclock a droid (which stock is 550mhz) and as for a G1 or an Eris...that's anybody's guess. It will run but i dunno how well I have yet to try it on those devices.

6. Last note here...remember this is a PHONE people. Its going to be buggy time to time, slow at other times...and as for practicality? HAHAHA no, its fun and useful for buffing, chatting, selling, all that....but as someone who healed a group via the phone the other night I do NOT recommend using it as a full replacement until someone develops a larger UI suited for the phone's size! The controls can be awkard to learn, and some functions dont full work properly (cant click both mouse buttons at the same time for example, movement can be a pita to set up, etc) If someone wipes your group because they were playing on their phone don't blame me!


ROOT AND OVERCLOCK!
I am not going to spend a week writing a guide to this, its totally unneccessary. The process is quite simple, easy and all in all safe. I have yet to hear of even a bad flash that wasn't able to be corrected easily enough, and never have I heard of a overclock physically damaging a phone.
With that, please READ EVERYTHING AT LEAST TWICE. If you are not sure you can do this, THEN DON'T! The various forums I linked have everything you need to know on rooting, don't come to me!

So ill point you to a guide, and have at it!

WHAT IS ROOT?: http://www.droidforums.net/forum/droid-hacks/632-what-root-means-stop-asking.html

Have you already upgraded to the Verizon 2.1 android from the auto update? Im assuming thats proably EVERYONE reading this. If so then go HERE: http://forum.droidmod.org/index.php?PHPSESSID=45d0accec47e61155a13b1cee102af e9&/topic,1004.0.html

Theres alot of custom roms out there, but for rock solid stability, speed, and pure awesomeness I use myself and recommend Petes Bugless Beast 1.0, then apply a custom OC kernel as you see fit. If you got through the above steps then you wont need any explanation as to what or why on this.
http://www.droidforums.net/forum/bugless/41770-rom-bugless-beast-v1-0-ese81.html


THE APP!

Download PhoneMYPC on the market. If your so inclined you can also chec out their page here: http://www.softwareforme.com/phonemypc/
AFter app install also install the PC side server portion. Its a little package, runs in the background, all that jazz. Its pretty straightforward. Plug in the information, and your good to go. (LINK: http://www.softwareforme.com/phonemypc/setupapc.html)

EXCEPT....please ensure you open all proper ports in both windows firewall and whatever router youre using! Failure to do so would cause it not to work properly (duh) among other things. The default port is TCP port 49300 but you can change that in the app.

Make sure you read the control guides on their site for how everything works, and how to set them up to your liking. A tricky spot might me getting movement keys to work properly, well you can also rebind the keys inside EQ on the phone itself! That makes it a bit simpler when ya play with it for awhile.




FINAL THOUGHTS!

Well there you have it, im pretty sure thats enough information for anybody to go off of now. Im am simply UNABLE to provide for every question or eventuality however, and with that in mind I urge you to do a bit of reading especially when it comes to the ROM flashing. A good point to start at is http://www.droidforums.net/forum/ where you can find a bevy of information. Alot of my information is droid0biased of course but any android phone can be modded! For you HTC phone people I recommend http://www.xda-developers.com/

With this in mind I hope at least ive proved the concept at least beyond a shadow of a doubt now. The videos prove it works, and the exact limits and strengths of such a setup. So please dont send me tells in games about how much something sucks, or how you were flashing your phone and dropped it in your iced tea and now its my fault it doesn't work, or what have you.
But if you have a legitimate question ill try and help you out between buffs and heals of course, as long as its not something ive already provided the information on.

Donations of coin or trinkets in game though would be the best reward, if you feel in a generous mood :D Or even hug my fat troll shammy Cuddles when I run by!

Besides that, do with this write up what you will (or decide not to do now!) and have fun!

[Fraud]

oh man im playin eq on my phone.
oh-man oh-man oh-man.

[Zithax]

Can't describe how cool this is. Great job man!

[hyzon]

Shadowwulf, You gotta stop making me learn so much when I read your damn posts =P

[km2783]

ah, so they use similar tech to that one web browser whose name I forget, now. It promised flash on mobiles, etc. I had a beta for it on Symbian and Blackberry OS.

I'm curious what the CPU load is on the host machine as it converts to video on the fly.

[FatMagic]

ah, so they use similar tech to that one web browser whose name I forget, now. It promised flash on mobiles, etc. I had a beta for it on Symbian and Blackberry OS.

I'm curious what the CPU load is on the host machine as it converts to video on the fly.

I think you're thinking of the Skyfire browser that is in Beta

[km2783]

That was it! Thanks.

[ShadowWulf]

Ok I made one last video, ill just copy-paste the youtube video description for simplicity.
FYI the ive contacted the app devs about some current bugs that seem to only show up in Everquest of all programs, and theyre actively looking into them. Among them is arrow keys going to the wrong application layer (aka the desktop and not the active EQ window for some reason) which can make things like movement a chore. Ill keep people appraised as I get get more from them on it. If anybody HERE has any ideas on the unique behavior of the EQ client though, id love to get input.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrAr9S--rsk

Ok another CLASSIC Everquest running on android upload! Thanks to Project 1999 for the server! www.project1999.org check it out, start playing on PC! READ EVERYTHING to understand what im doing here!

Again, this is filmed with my wife's droid ERIS one handed so be kind! Also, due tot he way it processes the image it appears much slower, in actuality I now have it running smoothly at about 30+fps, even in the rain and while moving over WiFi.

This is an experiment in usability and playability using an app called PhoneMyPC (no I dont work for them!) to play classic Everquest on your ANDROID phone! This video is one mainly centering around optimizing the client and UI settings for cell phone use! You'll notice I had to do almost no zooming or screen moving this time. How?

CLIENT: 800x600 resolution, 16-bit color, actor and far clip plane set to 25%, simple sky, particles are left ON but density is set to MINIMUM and distance pulled as close as possible. ALL advanced shaders disabled. Simple water in all zones (no NEW water), no shadows. Its EQ the changes on a mobile are unnoticeable !

In fact, dropping the resolution and effects like this speeds the streaming a huge amount, yet due to the much smaller and pixel-dense DROID screen the resulting image is in fact very clear, colorful and properly proportioned.

By dropping the resolution it blew up the UI which is PERFECT. As you can see all text is perfectly readable and clear, the larger icon size makes clicking a breeze with screen controls, and the mobs and players are sized in a way easy to see and interact with.

So for sitting around, buffing for donations, chatting with your guildies or anything else it works great setup like this! Enjoy!

App used: PhoneMyPC
ROM: Petes BuglessBeast 1.0
1.2 GHz Low Voltage overclock Kernel
WiFi connection
And a bunch of other EQ client side and droid side minor changes that added up to this, smoothest yet experience (see above!)

Highest Temp reached: 101f stable. Nice!

[km2783]

I'm impressed the most by the temp.

[Loretta]

Awesome !! Im so jealous of the droid - I wanted one but held out because of the data-plan/monthly. One day though I'll decide to go for it... or mebbe lucky & be gifted it :p!

[Desert]

Cool bro. Guess you didnt read the very first line in the first post though, huh?

New Video: Running around oasis this time! Yep full movement up the beach to wave and sit with another group! Btw the FPS in game are better than the video shows, the ERIS i used to record with and youtube combined make it appear much slower than it actually is.

This is also running at 1024x768, 32 bit color, sky off, LOD on as the first performance tweaking tests.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHWZM3EwDWY

Hate to break this to you, but he's close. The only thing that PhoneMyPC offers that your generic VNC client wont is SSL. It's the same thing tbh.

While impressive, all you've really done is overclock the piss out of your phone and put an optimized VNC-type program on it. When a phone can run EQ natively, I'll be impressed. No dedicated video = Always being tethered to a PC. You are dependent on that PC working, not dropping connection, etc, or else you can't do anything.

For now, a Droid "running" eq is nothing more than a remote control imho, and it's worth is debatable at best because of the lack of a Bazaar or central trade hub.

[ShadowWulf]

Hate to break this to you, but he's close. The only thing that PhoneMyPC offers that your generic VNC client wont is SSL. It's the same thing tbh.

While impressive, all you've really done is overclock the piss out of your phone and put an optimized VNC-type program on it. When a phone can run EQ natively, I'll be impressed. No dedicated video = Always being tethered to a PC. You are dependent on that PC working, not dropping connection, etc, or else you can't do anything.

For now, a Droid "running" eq is nothing more than a remote control imho, and it's worth is debatable at best because of the lack of a Bazaar or central trade hub.

Maybe, but again its fun, and thats worth something.
I did make a few hundred plat buffing lowbies and others today in a few zones using the setup.
The key difference is speed between this implementation and a generic VNC client. This is perfectly playable as it with relatively few bugs, VNC even on wireless is not.
As for EQ installed natively on an Android phone, ill l;eave THAT task to someone who wants to engineer the os itself and find a way to make a WINE equivalent emulation setup run on it, which may or may not run any better than this does.

[toddfx]

Ok I made one last video, ill just copy-paste the youtube video description for simplicity.
FYI the ive contacted the app devs about some current bugs that seem to only show up in Everquest of all programs, and theyre actively looking into them. Among them is arrow keys going to the wrong application layer (aka the desktop and not the active EQ window for some reason) which can make things like movement a chore. Ill keep people appraised as I get get more from them on it. If anybody HERE has any ideas on the unique behavior of the EQ client though, id love to get input.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrAr9S--rsk

I've been doing tests on the iPhone using LogMeIn and iTeleport and am having these EXACT issues with arrow/movement keys. I have done further testing and discovered the same problem also exists when using any virtual or on-screen keyboard, even when operating locally (as opposed to a remote app).

It also seems the problem exists even when you change your walk controls to regular letter keys, which leads me to believe it's a problem on EQs end. Do you get the same results, or is it ONLY the arrow keys that do not function?

I have a thread about this in Technical Discussion, and am also looking for help in finding a workaround. I won't go too in-depth about my iPhone tests right now, but as soon as I get this movement problem fixed I'll be posting some videos.

[ShadowWulf]

Yes Todd its an eq issue it seems, but the devs are going to try (they said try, no promises!) to investigate it and narrow down the issue.

Bind autowalk and that works fine though, as does text and most hotkeys. It suffices for light playing, buffing, selling etc etc.

[Desert]

i don't think even running under wine will be able to bypass the dedicated gpu issue. with titanium there's no option to use dx8, but there was one client i know of that uses dx8 and software rendering rather than hardware, which would be trilogy i guess? That client would (theoretically) run on your phone natively.

push that phone to it's limits imo, try running civilization 4 or something on it :P I'm pretty sure it uses software shit

[Dawgrin]

Just wanted to bump this a bit. Has anyone else had any new revelations on this front?

Any try this on an incredible or other phone with just virtual keyboards?

Has anyone been able to think of a way to actually get the client itself to run on the phone rather than being tethered to a PC?

[Sinlea]

Has anyone tried this with an HTC Incredible? Wondering how the touch screen keyboard would work...

[ShadowWulf]

Has anyone tried this with an HTC Incredible? Wondering how the touch screen keyboard would work...

No that i know of. I can assure you it might suck though, or require more juggling than is neccessary to do simple tasks.

I do have a new video of EvE online running on my droid however :D

Believe it or not, EvE runs FAR better than EQ does, and this is at 32 bit color with alpha on, 1680 x 1050 resolution. Ill post more video of it undocking and flying around a little later.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Au4hX9MpEV4

As for getting a windows architecture game (EQ) to run natively on a Linux based phone? No, not going to happen without probably redesigning the whole engine from the ground up. Im sure the P99 devs could chime in with more info on that front, they're the experts here not me, but for now ill just leave it at a resounding "No".

[Calamitous Oeuvre]

Thats impressive. I'd be warry though, AT&T is doing away with their unlimited data usage contracts for the Iphone soon, they are loosing major bucks to unlimited usage. I'm sure they will be re-doing people's contracts without their notice, except by mail in small print in one of their upcoming bills. With AT&T doing this I imagine that other companies will soon follow suit, and I can't begin to think what kind of data usage EQ would require.

Just a heads up.

[Nodnarb]

This is awesome. I have the moto droid and ive yet to mess with any of the emulator stuff but it seems pretty cool. This seems like it would be a little too intense for me though. I would love if they somehow made a mobile version of the game with simple controls for the touch screen, it would definitely be possible for Everquest, because we all know you dont need movement and stuff on EQ like you do on say World of Warcraft.

[Reiker]

Thats impressive. I'd be warry though, AT&T is doing away with their unlimited data usage contracts for the Iphone soon, they are loosing major bucks to unlimited usage. I'm sure they will be re-doing people's contracts without their notice, except by mail in small print in one of their upcoming bills. With AT&T doing this I imagine that other companies will soon follow suit, and I can't begin to think what kind of data usage EQ would require.

Just a heads up.

a) Not sure what AT&T has to do with someone's Droid.
b) Read that those on the current unlimited data plans will be grandfathered in if they wish.

Edit: I see, the "other companies may follow suit" portion. I have faith in Verizon, also see point b. Whenever a company makes a major contractual change, you're pretty much always guaranteed an offer to be "grandfathered in" on whatever your current plan entails.

Also, I own an HTC Incredible. I owned a Droid for a couple weeks before the Inc was released. Not sure what that guy was talking about seeing "individual pixels" on the Inc's screen, I don't get that all. Basically the Incredible's screen is much brighter and more vibrant in low light (indoors) but gets sort of washed out outdoors. Which is totally worth it since I use my phone indoors much more often than out, and even outside it's possible to see what you're doing, sorta.

Still glad I have my Incredible since all its pros totally outweigh the pros of the Droid (the biggest being a physical keyboard, but without it the Inc would be as heavy and clunky as the Moto Droid). I'd definitely rather have the sleek professional design over the Droid's keyboard. Could I play EQ with it? Yeah, but would I? No way.

[mrgoochio]

this.. looks.. cool.. is the bottleneck the server CPU encoding process? i would expect the server's upload bandwidth.. however, i don't really know anything about phones

i'm really interested in droid/pc tethering though.. have you tried using it in many other applications? more interested in hearing about other stuff as well. can't find a really good forum for modding/hacking yet

quick question.. can the droid view sites like livestream/ustream/blipp.tv with its native browser?

[mrgoochio]

i just bought a moto droid -_-

[Thrymm]

a) Not sure what AT&T has to do with someone's Droid.
b) Read that those on the current unlimited data plans will be grandfathered in if they wish.


Currently it looks like if you have the unlimited data for $30, you can keep/grandfather in....

I was forced into the unlimited data just because I had a Samsung Propel i627 which I never used for data unless by accident. My account shows its staying at unlimited data unless I change it to the 200mb(15 bux) or 2gb plan(think 25, forget off hand).

I only know my "smartphone" is ok with the net with wifi hotspots, the 3G from AT&T has been horrible. I assume the iPhone is great with data and shit with calls then?

Piss poor move on limiting plans, kinda like charging for a checked bag on a flight. (send it fedex).

[redghosthunter]

You Musta got the RT-D2 ??? :P

[mrgoochio]

got my droid yesterday.. activated and ready to go! will be rooting soon :D

[Qaedain]

Also, I own an HTC Incredible. I owned a Droid for a couple weeks before the Inc was released. Not sure what that guy was talking about seeing "individual pixels" on the Inc's screen, I don't get that all.

http://tech.icrontic.com/articles/the-unfinished-masterpiece-an-htc-droid-incredible-review/
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2010/03/secrets-of-the-nexus-ones-screen-science-color-and-hacks.ars/ (same screen)
http://www.droidforums.net/forum/droid-incredible-general-discussions/41361-droid-display-incredible-display.html

Maybe your eyes can't tell the difference, but I certainly can. I didn't buy the Nexus One or the Incredible for exactly these reasons: poor color accuracy, obvious dithering pattern and blown out reds. Every single AMOLED HTC uses suffers from these issues.

Some people can't see it, but it's a total deal-breaker for me.

[Stickyfingers]

Does this work on the Eris? Or just the Moto?

[mrgoochio]

Rooting my droid atm.. need a custom UI built !! ;)

[Droop]

http://tech.icrontic.com/articles/the-unfinished-masterpiece-an-htc-droid-incredible-review/
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2010/03/secrets-of-the-nexus-ones-screen-science-color-and-hacks.ars/ (same screen)
http://www.droidforums.net/forum/droid-incredible-general-discussions/41361-droid-display-incredible-display.html

Maybe your eyes can't tell the difference, but I certainly can. I didn't buy the Nexus One or the Incredible for exactly these reasons: poor color accuracy, obvious dithering pattern and blown out reds. Every single AMOLED HTC uses suffers from these issues.

Some people can't see it, but it's a total deal-breaker for me.

I see it BAD on the Nexus One, but I never could tell on the Incredible. Plus at this point might as well wait for the 2 new droid phones that come out the end of this month. 1ghz TI chip in them I believe. Much better than the Qualcomm 1ghz in the Nexus One/Incredible due to the fact the GPU processing on the TI chip is insanely better.

They'll be here in a month or so I think.

[Qaedain]

Yeah, the Snapdragon's AMD-based GPU isn't as fast as the ones found in TI SoCs. The 1GHz TI SoC in the Droid X is bound to be nice as a result (hell, that whole device is a beast). I expect a mid-July launch.

Even so, I'm not sure if I could stomach using the stock Android UI, or even MOTOBLUR, after spending a while evaluating HTC's outstanding Sense UI. Nothing comes close. Considering the fact that the Snapdragon's GPU is more than sufficient to handle 720p and all the tasks of the Android UI, I think it becomes a philosophical choice, and mine falls in favor of a fantastic UI.

[mrgoochio]

i want the 2ghz nvidia tesla gpu motorola coming out by end of this year :D

[Desert]

As for getting a windows architecture game (EQ) to run natively on a Linux based phone? No, not going to happen without probably redesigning the whole engine from the ground up. Im sure the P99 devs could chime in with more info on that front, they're the experts here not me, but for now ill just leave it at a resounding "No".
why would you have to do something silly like redesign anything? linux can play windows games natively using wine.

i don't see a reason why it wouldn't run any software that doesn't require dedicated video. provided the phone is robust enough (has enough memory, etc), and that wine supports the piece of software you're trying to run of course. http://appdb.winehq.org/

the droid's 256mb ram seems to be more of a limiting factor than anything else right now.

[ShadowWulf]

why would you have to do something silly like redesign anything? linux can play windows games natively using wine.

i don't see a reason why it wouldn't run any software that doesn't require dedicated video. provided the phone is robust enough (has enough memory, etc), and that wine supports the piece of software you're trying to run of course. http://appdb.winehq.org/

the droid's 256mb ram seems to be more of a limiting factor than anything else right now.

Nope, way off base. The phone does not operate on x86 architecture. You would either need to re-write the game itself or rewrite WINE. As is, wine will not and does not run on ANDROID. Ive flashed debian on this thing and it still doesn't run. The only workaround I know of is to have wine run in a JAVA app....yea. Im not gonna tango with that one. And the ANDROID OS also has no X libraries, which even if not used are required for it to run, as well as im being informed several other different libraries that are completly missing and not integrated. To do so would require, again, massive rewrites of the game (an android exclusive version written from the bottom up) or ANDROID itself or a completly rewritten true linux OS designed for the hardware, with proper drivers...and then it wouldn't be a phone anymore.

Also, you may not of read the full run down i gave earlier but it currently runs ANY app i tell it to, dedicated video or NOT it makes no difference as the actual processing and rendering is not handled on the droid but the host PC.
See my EvE online videos (Which actually runs BETTER than eq does!) for an example.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ud1wf3qSxgQ
Or maybe you would like to see Borderlands running on it instead? :cool:

As per my comments, FPS is around 20-30 even in borderlands, but obviously controlling a FPS with your phone when its setup for PC hardware sucks. So i don't recommend using it to play a PC FPS without some intense key bindings to make it doable.
Again this was recorded one handed with another cellphone (an ERIS) so obviously its not great and it looks WAY laggier than it really is. Also at one point the controls bugged out and I had to hop in and out of the shell as youll see 1/4 of the way in. Yea, its a boring video but its just for demonstrations (And i filmed it not 5 minutes ago for this post...)


Ive reflashed Froyo 2.2 (Using Bugless Beast v0.2) and the newest baseband updates. The phone now scores higher (nearly double) in linpack processor tests that the incredible or the non-2.2 Nexus One do stock, while only being 300MHz faster than their processors.

Tests with EQ have been surprisingly good, relatively smooth and responsive now even full screened and max zoom out on the camera, with the client staying set to max 1680x1050 res and all eye candy turned on. A nifty performance boost.

To the earlier posters: Yes this works on any Android phone (Or most others for that matter). Read my earlier posts for A LOT more information but the largest impact will simply be your raw CPU speed, hence why a custom ROM and a good overclock is what takes this out of "nifty" and into the realm of being actually playable (mostly....don't PvP on your phone!).

And, one of these days ill have my wife actually HOLD the damn came for me instead of one handing it. Maybe even commentary. One of these videos is almost to 2500 views in 3 weeks which while its not much in youtube terms its a nice boost to my continued interest in this project to know people are actually interested in it.
I do accept charitable donations in buffs, hugs or plat also =) Seems i get a nice assortment of hugs lately so im content.

[Desert]

My point was to make it run natively on the phone hardware, not maintain phone functionality. it sounds like a roll your own OS project to me, which is fine, i've done it for stupider things before. Now I just need a Droid.

I wish your videos didn't say "runs on droid" because technically, it isn't. Remote Control =\

[ShadowWulf]

My point was to make it run natively on the phone hardware, not maintain phone functionality. it sounds like a roll your own OS project to me, which is fine, i've done it for stupider things before. Now I just need a Droid.

I wish your videos didn't say "runs on droid" because technically, it isn't. Remote Control =\

True, but i find simplifying the technical aspects down as much as possible keep people from asking annoying questions every 30 seconds on the videos.

It would be a custom OS project also, and while doable im sure I have neither the time nor the inclination (Also, in this case a nice box of droids because unlike standard rom's there is a chance of bricking with linux, also of early SD card failure, they dont last long when partitioned and used so rapidly.)

[Desert]

Yeah solid state devices tend to have a lifespan of about a million writes, i'd go through a card every month or so based on past precedent. i've worked a lot portable os's and such in the past. i've got plenty of time to do it, but no free cash for a droid right now (it's all tied up building an Arduino powered UAV), so this project is just going to go on my bugzilla with the rest of them. :)

[mrgoochio]

I can't get my screen clicks to register when im in-game.. its really weird that it works when im out of EQ on desktop (from droid) but not in-game... likewise, my movement won't work either. i can bind the keys no problem using my droid, but when it comes time to move.. no go. i can bind dpad-up to autorun and dpad-down to move backwards and when i click up, i start autorunning. i click down, i stop moving. if i hold down, it doesn't move me backwards at all, yet it stopped me when i was auto-running.. any ideas on how to get my interface working?

[ShadowWulf]

Ok expect another writeup probably tomorrow after I get back from work. Theres a bunch of UI customization/optimization things I wanted to go over anyways, a crap ton of custom key bindings and im still digging into some of the EQ only bugs (this isnt on account of the app I believe now, as only EQ displays this behavior regularly but there are workarounds.)

[MeatShield]

my roomate can play on a hd2 he has and it works well....

[ShadowWulf]

my roomate can play on a hd2 he has and it works well....

WinMo, what app, and is it a custom rom?
As an aside ill be picking one of up as a side project phone, maybe, on the 18th since they're gonna be fucking FREE.

[mrgoochio]

any update on that update shadowwulf? :D couldn't get my movement to work unfortunately. Could have been something with my installation though.. but I cant figure out what it is. screen clicking doesn't work either. (that is unless i bind 1 of my dpad keys to "click" and use that)

[Groove]

Android 2.2 now having flash built in allows some more options todo this.

[ShadowWulf]

New video coming tonight or tomorrow, im testing different apps to get around peoples issues, namely the movement issues that exist on certain phones, android OS's and just because im also chasing that elusive 60fps mark which is my goal.

I am also looking for a UI developer willing to create a very simple sub 1024x768 large buttoned P99 compatible UI with the intention for it to be used for touch controls and touch capability. That included larger hot buttons, spell icons, and chat elements yet removing non essentials to keep it as utilitarian as possible.

Oh yea, it helps, people having issues let me know what phone, ROM/Android OS version, and weather they're stock or not.

EDIT: Heh for the record the app LogMeIn Ignition is absolutely horrendous for gaming. I mean HORRIBLE, its like stepping back in time to when I experimented with VNC, and its almost unusable on android 2.2 ROM's due to memory allocation errors.

EDIT2: Im talking now with the lead dev at PhoneMyPc and it looks like we might be getting some special bug fixes for us. Stay tuned.

Now, back to the bat cave!

[OngorDrakan]

Can you play EQP99 on the ipad?

[mrgoochio]

New video coming tonight or tomorrow, im testing different apps to get around peoples issues, namely the movement issues that exist on certain phones, android OS's and just because im also chasing that elusive 60fps mark which is my goal.

I am also looking for a UI developer willing to create a very simple sub 1024x768 large buttoned P99 compatible UI with the intention for it to be used for touch controls and touch capability. That included larger hot buttons, spell icons, and chat elements yet removing non essentials to keep it as utilitarian as possible.

Oh yea, it helps, people having issues let me know what phone, ROM/Android OS version, and weather they're stock or not.

EDIT: Heh for the record the app LogMeIn Ignition is absolutely horrendous for gaming. I mean HORRIBLE, its like stepping back in time to when I experimented with VNC, and its almost unusable on android 2.2 ROM's due to memory allocation errors.

EDIT2: Im talking now with the lead dev at PhoneMyPc and it looks like we might be getting some special bug fixes for us. Stay tuned.

Now, back to the bat cave!

any updates? i could never get my droid to function like yours.. my movement was royally screwed up and for some reason my touch screen wouldn't function properly at all..

[ShadowWulf]

Its an issue on some phones, not on others :confused:

Im still waiting on a update from the devs, and on top of that my personal DROIDS slider broek (It kills the screen any time its opened) so im waiting on a replacement myself now.

I havent forgotten by any means, its just been delayed is all.

[mrgoochio]

u still working on this? i haven't seen much in the major breakthrough updates with phonemypc. theyve been promising sound for what seems like ages. i've noticed a ton of VNC type programs come out for android though. have you experimented lately?

[Vynn]

I havent forgotten by any means, its just been delayed is all.

Somehow I think he may have lied!

[Drah]

Can you play EQP99 on the ipad?

I've "played" EQ on my iPhone 4 and original iPad using the TeamViewer app. It wasn't a pleasant experience.

[mrgoochio]

guess hes gone.. i tried PMing him a few days ago with no response

[ryandward]

How do you click? Mine won't tunnel a click properly

[Chokan]

When I run EQ in full screen mode the phonemypc app only shows a blank screen instead of EQ. It's weird.

I'm running windows 7 64 bit on a Droid 3 (not rooted cuz they can't be yet).

Framerate on windowed mode is like 2fps on wireless LAN.

Also movement keys don't seem to work correctly. Any updates on this? I can go into options and assign movement keys in the client by pressing them on the droid and they still will not control movement.

[hdawg06]

Can a droid x2 run this at all?

[deneauth]

Bumping thread because I just got an HTC Thunderbolt and was thinking about playing EQ on it. Was wondering if it was worth it because the phone only has a soft keyboard on it.

[mrgoochio]

don't know that this will run with softkeys. droid has hard keys..

[Iwin]

any phone that can run p99 natively without no hiccups like the new iphone or is there shit preventing it from happening like the OS?