Snare should stop running mobs completely

[Slave]

From 1999:

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.games.everquest/browse_thread/thread/148fd5c7af6a1e3d/6c8caca43f9744ed?q=%22green+aggro%22+goblin&lnk=nl&


"As a Druid, EVERYTIME I cast snare, when the MoB hits it's turn and run mode
once it's been beat most of the way, will eventually just stop and stand
there while you finish it off. BUT, it has to get beat down enough for this
to occur. In upper GUK Frogloks have a tendacy to run before most things
normally would, hence they walk off when snared instead of just stopping in
their tracks and doing nothing."

This is also what I remember from Live. Currently, on P99 the mob is merely slowed in run speed until they hit about 12%. They should not move at all once they turn to run and have a Snare effect on them, and I'm pretty sure that includes all levels of Darkness.

Further evidence, same page:

"The only time mobs will go into the "slow run" with snare as opposed to
the "turn and take it" is if they are:

a) Very green.
b) Healed *after* they start to run."

This would indicate that any mob at 20% or lower health would be stopped dead in its tracks by a Snare effect.

MORE evidence, same page:

"And, once snared, when the mob hits the flee
state, it will just stand still and not fight back. ...

Snare:
1) Snare is a fixed duration. Not random. It is predictable
2) A snared mob that wants to flee, will just stand still
3) In groups, used to prevent a mob from fleeing "

[Yondiloons]

Evidence against it - same page


Snare is much better than root. For example, root will break the mob out of
flee mode, so it starts to fight again. Snare will make the mob run so
slow that you can get in a couple of rounds before it's out of melee range,
and once the mob gets really low on health, it stops, and will not fight
back.

"My ranger has snare, but a running mob sometimes will just keep going, even
snared, running ever so slowly away but refusing to go down far enough in
health to stop moving. Frequently I have seen our wizards get impatient
with snare (time is sometimes of the essence) and root the thing solid. "

"Give me a monster I *know* will be moving slowly over one that might
bolt at full speed at any minute any day of the week. "

"They won't get very far if Snared. And they'll stop as soon as they're
hit hard enough. If your Snared mobs are getting away and starting trains,
then your "efficient" group can't kill them fast enough to make the grade. "



it seems like some mobs do and some dont, unfortunately that complicates things for us

[Yondiloons]

ok from here - http://www.angelfire.com/games2/eqfornewbies/strats/druid.htm#snare

it says "This is probably the best facet of snare. When a mob is low on health, it will start running. At lower levels, this isn't a big deal, as you can kill a running mob with a few hits. However, at higher levels, mobs will start running earlier in a fight, and it will take a lot longer to kill them."

could be higher level mobs are supposed to run earlier, therefore not stopping mobs at the required percentage to stop them when an otherwise lower level mob will run later already after the required percentage to stop them

[Slave]

None of your evidence says anything about mobs turning to run at 20%, like a non-green con mob will. That is the point at which a Snare effect automatically reduces them to 0 movement speed. Every quotation on that page reflects that, and that is why I posted those specifically, since just talking about mobs being snared and crawling away without saying whether they are green or not is misleading.

Green mobs run at 25% health or even higher sometimes, as quoted above.

[Slave]

ok from here - http://www.angelfire.com/games2/eqfornewbies/strats/druid.htm#snare

it says "This is probably the best facet of snare. When a mob is low on health, it will start running. At lower levels, this isn't a big deal, as you can kill a running mob with a few hits. However, at higher levels, mobs will start running earlier in a fight, and it will take a lot longer to kill them."

could be higher level mobs are supposed to run earlier, therefore not stopping mobs at the required percentage to stop them when an otherwise lower level mob will run later already after the required percentage to stop them

"Earlier in a fight," that is pretty nonspecific and probably simply means that the higher the hps a mob has, the longer it takes to finish them off. Which actually is what the quote says. It doesn't even mention the mobs being Snared, anyway. Please try to be a bit choosier. :)

[Nuesnada]

First of lets get numbers straight

UKNOWN = set speed of mobs at normal and low health on this server <excluding buffs >

UKNOWN= Set reduction of speeds by various snare type spells on this servers. < no information to be had unless devs reveal this information.

KNOWN = at least prior to this patch mobs on p1999 ran faster at normal speed then live servers. you could test this with druid snare/ensnare, mobs that where both druid ranger snared / ensnared would continue to run if below 20 percent and would not stop till they reached 11 percent health. this implied mobs had a higher set normal run speed. this also implies that a mob would drop to another run speed which we perceived as walking when its heallth would drop from 20 to 11 percent, and stop completely as it run speed was at zero or lower at 11 percent to 0 percent health.

----------------------------------------------

DATA known percentage speed reduction referencing allakazam.

Druid /ranger/ Various items SNARE = 41% to 51 % run speed reduction.

DRuid/ Ranger / Various items ENSNARE = 56 % run speed reduction

Necromancer /sk / Various items CLINGING DARKNESS= 24% to 30% run speed reduction

Necromancer / sk / items Engulfing Darkness= 40% run speed reduction.

necromancer /sk / ?? items ??? DOOMING DARKNESS = 48% to 59 % r.s.r

necromancer /sk/ ?? item ??? Cascading Darkness= 60 % Run Speed Reduction.

------------------------------------------------------------

So unless devs decide to release information of mob run speed of mob through out their health levels we will not known if everything is working as we remember on live.

All we have is PERSONAL EXP. if you are use to just using your lowest snare for mana efficiency then try using a higher level one and see this changes how mobs behave. Necromancer / shadow knight have better set of spell to test this.


I will log in later today and do some personal test on mobs i have killed prior to patch and watch their behavior.

[Vohl]

Fear pathing on live servers seemed to be less erratic than on p99 blue and red. There were points where you could position yourself and time melee attacks to hit running targets. I used to do this in the aviak village in S Karana, for example. Running mobs also ran at a speed that was possible to catch and attack them repeatedly if you were on the ball. SoW allowed a chasing melee combatant to attack fleeing mobs somewhat reliably, especially if they had large hit boxes (i.e. giants, cyclopes).

Not giving yourself enough space, fumbling your timing on attacks on fleeing mobs, or horrible luck with hitting mobs would cause trains. Snare was handy for preventing these from happening, but it was not necessary to solo.

The patch has, through whatever crazy combination of pre-existing inaccuracies and well-intentioned updates (accurate to classic EQ or otherwise) achieved a very non-classic result. Melee in general, and monks in particular, are now 100% group-dependent. There is no longer any capacity for monks, warriors and rogues to solo even light blue mobs.

PLEASE FIX THIS.

I'd like to continue to play on 99 red, but it will not be possible with the current flight AI, NPC pathing and speed rule set in effect.

[Nuesnada]

further information.

Tested with help of lower level friend.

mob snared after friend beats it down by 25 percent meleee/damage shield. <alwasy pulled mob of him and attacked me , seems snare has more agro then I remember>

anyhow things i discovered since patch:

1 ) if i get agro <mob green> and it is at 25 to 14 percent health mob will start to run away at walking speed < ?? % move speed unkown>>. when it drops bellow 11 percent is will stop running.

2) mob is engaging someone else and that person is under 50 percent health when the mob reaches 20 percent did not turn away to run, instead will continued to fight till it reaches 11 to 13 percent health then try to run <so mob was beating on friend and then turn to run away only usualy got 1 step then stoped>

3) mob is engaged someone else and the person is above 50 percent health mob will start to run away anywere from 20 to 13 percent heaLth till it health drops to 11 percent or lower and then stops running.


-------------------------------------------------------

Did not get to test unsnared mobs at it would have meant my friend geting pummmuled into ground from a train.



Thanks for listening.

ps hope this helps with new mob run speeds at low health

[Deverell]

Fear pathing on live servers seemed to be less erratic than on p99 blue and red.

Live had "fear nodes" which were invisible thingies spread around each zone. A feared mob would run towards the nearest one, and if it reached it, it would run towards the next closest node. That's why it was predictable and consistent. On p99, the mobs seem to just run around randomly and change direction every few seconds, making it very hard to keep attacking them without missing a swing every time they turn. Either fear nodes aren't on this server or they're placed too closely together so the mob keeps changing direction to go to the next one. If that's the case, I'd estimate they're placed every few meters here while on Live they'd be spread out with like a full spellcasting range between each node at least.

[Slave]

bump for extreme importance with the last patches that have occurred

[Asher]

/bump

This can be easily checked and verified from EQMac.

Devs do have toons there right? Hell, I will level one up for you and turn the account over to you if you would like.

Please fix snare on this server. Mobs that have a snare spell on them should not move when they are supposed to run.

Asher

[mwatt]

My own memory of this varies a little from what has been stated so far. While it was true that a snared mob would at some point come to a stop while running away, the stopping point did not occur at the same point the mob began to run. As an estimate, once the mob has taken a bit more damage after it has begun it's run away mode - say half of the remaining health perhaps, then it would usually come to a stop. I actually see an effect similar to this already in place. Mobs slow down a lot more as they take more damage in their flee cycle.

Having said the above, I agree on three things that have been stated by many:
1) When mobs begin their run, their initial speed seems faster than it was on live.
2) They juke and dodge with much higher frequency than the mobs did on live.
3) The hit box on many if not most mobs seems much more narrow from behind than it did on live.

When all three of these factors are combined together, the result is that chasing down a mob and killing it when it runs is significantly harder than it was on live. God help you if your attack skills aren't maxed.

[Wolfgang]

ive been sowing every mob i see. im doing gods work.

[bulbousaur]

Agree. Snared mobs should stop completely at the ~11% health mark. It was always that way.

[Slave]

Agree. Snared mobs should stop completely at the ~11% health mark. It was always that way.

This is incorrect as shown by the proof I posted, Snare effects are supposed to completely eliminate movement at around 20% when most mobs begin to run.

[Asher]

This is incorrect as shown by the proof I posted, Snare effects are supposed to completely eliminate movement at around 20% when most mobs begin to run.

I agree and as soon as a Dev says that they will accept my EQMac account and test it I will roll a toon and turn it over to them for the proof they seek.

Perhaps one of the people in IB over there could confirm this for us.

I am primarily interested in having clinging darkness tested preferably by someone that is over level 50. I believe I do recall mobs running a little bit at lower levels but I know when I was 50+ and using my snare necklace things weren't moving.

Asher

[Sundawg]

This can be easily checked and verified from EQMac.

Asher


I will pass on the results of some clinging darkness testing I've done to the others. I will tell you that clinging darkness is very weak and the mobs have to be very near death before they stop.

[Rayzn]

I use ensnare and almost all mobs stop at 20% period. Don't know what you are fighting but giants goblins aviaks gnolls all those stop at 20% when ensnared. Necromancer snares don't stop much at early levels or with first darkness at most any level until mobs are around 11% however ensnare should stop ALL mobs that are not sowed at 20%.

[Asher]

I will pass on the results of some clinging darkness testing I've done to the others. I will tell you that clinging darkness is very weak and the mobs have to be very near death before they stop.

I can confirm that this is the case on P99. Mobs will run until 6% here.

I will check with my sources on EQMac and if necessary roll a toon there for you to test yourself.

Asher

[Sundawg]

I can confirm that this is the case on P99. Mobs will run until 6% here.

I will check with my sources on EQMac and if necessary roll a toon there for you to test yourself.

Asher

I was doing the testing on EQmac. Sounds like Kanras has it correct here.

[Asher]

I was doing the testing on EQmac. Sounds like Kanras has it correct here.

I am willing to bet you were testing this with a very low level necro. I was playing there a couple years ago and relied on the necklace on my lvl 58 shaman heavily when soloing in PoMischief and misc dungeons. I am having my 65 necro friend test it for me.

[Sundawg]

Was with a SK in the high 30's. Clinging Darkness does not get any better between a caster in his teens and a caster who is 65.