RFS IFS or PB opinions

[godbox]

Ya I know this shit been done to death but its interesting to me and I am gonna make next char a monk. Got some plat in bank gonna start shopping for weps since I have a fbss Im starting to not use on my sham.
I have heard conflicting things regarding these weps so Im not trying to start a debate just curious if anyone has experience using one two or all three and has any input.
I am leaning towards RFS since its crazy fast and gets the super crazy 2h bonus if I read mechanics page right.

[Deverell]

PB is the worst of the lot and it weighs a ton, so I wouldn't use that. The low delay of the RFS means it doesn't get a very high damage bonus, but it is applied more often so that probably gives it a small edge over IFS. If money is a concern and you'd be able to twink better with the extra cash you'd save by buying an IFS, I'd do that. You'll want a Tstaff in the end anyway.

[Claax]

Deverell is right about one thing, at 50 you're gonna want a t-staff if you can afford it. Otherwise, in my experience, faster is definitely better. More chances to hit(and double attack) is a huge deal IMO. You can pull enough aggro in small groups or gimped groups where you are the tank(which is really not optimal unless you're duoing with a shaman), but generally not enough to be a problem in groups with a real tank. Below 50, I would definitely go with an RFS if you have the cash to spend. Otherwise get a peacebringer. They do weigh a shit ton, but if you keep your gear weighted low, it's not that big of a deal IMO. You just wanna go overweight as little as possible, throw away all your coin, get summoned bags, do whatever you gotta do. A few weight, for convenience's sake, is a huge difference. Having an IFS rather than a peacebringer is going to make your life easier, but in my opinion, it's not going to be doing as much damage. It might not be a huge difference though, I don't have any hard data, but what I notice (under 50) is that it does make enough of a difference for me to go with a 10.0 weapon and make my weight a huge priority.

If you're going to group all the time, you shouldn't be taking much damage anyways. Just pulling mobs and using your HP if the group gets in serious trouble. I have two sets of gear, they consist of 3 or 4 pieces. One set lowers my STR but lowers my weight, another raises my STR but increases my weight. I use high STR, higher weight items while DPSing, especially if i'm not pulling or am able to pull without taking much damage, I use the other set when I'm taking a lot of pull damage or doing anything where I will be tanking(soloing, duoing, etc). In my opinion, whenever you're taking damage, HP>AC>stats unless an item has so much AGI that it raises my AC that much.

Below 50, RFS>Peacebringer>IFS>Wu's. After 50 I think it's a toss up between T-Staff and AC/SoS.

Anyways, there are a lot of people who know more about this than I do, this is what I've learned from trial and error as well as those who know more about it than I do. Good luck.

[Yanomamo]

RFS would be marginally better than PB or IFS, but the cost is not nearly worth it IMO. If you're spending that much you might as well get a Tstaff and never look back.

-IFS looks cooler (not a cracked staff)
-PB is faster
-IFS weighs less
-As you advance in levels, PB should come out slightly ahead in DPS
-Another possible concern is you may be hitting a damage cap between 20-30 with IFS

You'll also need some 1h blunt weapons until 20. Good to have anyway to keep up 1h blunt skill.

[Claax]

I agree with Yanomamo. RFS is pricey, I've seen T-Staffs going for around 40 k now. Might as well just grab one if you can afford it.

[Deverell]

Otherwise, in my experience, faster is definitely better. More chances to hit(and double attack) is a huge deal IMO.

Faster is not inherently better. There's no magical benefit from swinging more often, and you don't get more out of double attack that way assuming the weapons are similar. It's the same thing as haste in that regard, faster weapons do not benefit more from these mechanics.

Having an IFS rather than a peacebringer is going to make your life easier, but in my opinion, it's not going to be doing as much damage. It might not be a huge difference though, I don't have any hard data, but what I notice (under 50) is that it does make enough of a difference for me to go with a 10.0 weapon and make my weight a huge priority.

Below 50, RFS>Peacebringer>IFS>Wu's. After 50 I think it's a toss up between T-Staff and AC/SoS.

As long as you're above the level 20 damage cap, IFS is straight up better than PB in every way. Better ratio, much lower weight, and 40 delay is the threshold for extra damage bonus on two-handed weapons.

[Yanomamo]

Faster is not inherently better.

Faster is better for 2 reasons:
1- The first is obvious. The faster the weapon is, the more benefit it gains from bonus damage.
2- It lowers damage variance. Swinging faster gives you more chances to hit or miss, etc. The more chances you get to hit, the closer your damage will be to "average". This lowers the risk of chain misses and weak hits.

As long as you're above the level 20 damage cap, IFS is straight up better than PB in every way. Better ratio, much lower weight, and 40 delay is the threshold for extra damage bonus on two-handed weapons.

Sure, IFS saves you 4 stone. Sure, the ratio is a teensy bit better before damage bonuses. Since PB is faster, however, it is superior to IFS for the 2 reasons stated above.

They added a new damage cap at 30 in the last patch. I have no idea what it is, do you? I get the feeling it might be hindering damage from 20-30 for an IFS since 38 is a dickton of damage. I really don't know though.

Regarding the bolded text: Are you sure? I was under the impression that 28 delay was the threshold. This is very important.

Assuming 28 is indeed the threshold, I still say the Peacebringer is better.

[Deverell]

You don't understand the game mechanics.

Swinging faster is not better by itself. There is literally no benefit to the act of swinging faster. It's like flipping 1000 coins vs. flipping 10000 coins: you'll get more of both results with the latter because there's a bigger sample size, but the random variation is the same in principle.

There can be a greater yield from damage bonus in some cases, but that's a secondary benefit. The pure act of swinging faster does not do you any particular good. A more "even spread of hits and misses" is meaningless. By that token, the best weapon in the game would be MCT, and anyone who knows their shit knows that it isn't. Then come all the indirect disadvantages of a fast weapon: more incoming ripostes, more damage from damage shields, no use in duels etc.

Also, 28 dly is the point where it gets 2h damage bonus at all. RFS gets the damage bonus of a 1h weapon, but its uniquely low delay still makes it good. 40 is the point where it starts to get extra damage bonus, up to like 75 dly where it stops. This is also why a weapon like Oggok Cleaver has uses but Weighted Axe doesn't really.

IFS will simply out-damage PB. There's nothing more to it.

[Yanomamo]

First of all I'd just like to remind everyone that examining the differences between all of these weapons is like splitting hairs.

You don't understand the game mechanics.

I only know what I've read (ive never tested anything myself), but I understand everything perfectly fine, thanks. A bit insulting, but since this is the internet, i forgive you if that wasn't your intention.

Swinging faster is not better by itself. There is literally no benefit to the act of swinging faster. It's like flipping 1000 coins vs. flipping 10000 coins: you'll get more of both results with the latter because there's a bigger sample size, but the random variation is the same in principle.

Look, more chances removes risk. Take that for what you will, bit i find it valuable. There are many advantages and disadvantages to each weapon. I'm just trying to point out all of the factors involved

Then come all the indirect disadvantages of a fast weapon: more incoming ripostes, more damage from damage shields, no use in duels etc.

Good point. I don't know what you mean by "no use in duels" though. Do you mean like how if you are only going to get a single hit in, you want a high front end?

Also, 28 dly is the point where it gets 2h damage bonus at all. RFS gets the damage bonus of a 1h weapon, but its uniquely low delay still makes it good. 40 is the point where it starts to get extra damage bonus, up to like 75 dly where it stops.

This is really the most important point. I hadn't heard of this before, but if it is true then you are probably right.

/bow

[muttonchops]

IFS will simply out-damage PB. There's nothing more to it.

From my experience and the experience of a monk friend, this is just not the case. IFS definitely hits hard, yes, but it is very inconsistent. I did not parse either, so admittedly I could be mistaken, in which case I'll eat my hat. But I doubt it. With a wider range for dmg output, the IFS seems to dole out very sporadic damage overall, more often than not resulting in lackluster hits.

I can't offer any solid evidence or technical jargon, but if two monks of roughly the same level were dueling, one with IFS and the other with PB, my money would be on PB hands down.

[Schortt]

The last time I parsed this was awhile ago but it was after the last change on 2H damage bonuses: http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=45360&highlight=damage+bonus

At level 60, raw melee damage was TStaff > RFS/PB > IFS. The math says RFS should slightly edge out PB (49 vs 48.67 modal DPS) but it never showed up in my parses to a significant degree. Real world DPS was something close like 83DPS > 80DPS > 75 DPS. With the procs added in on TStaff it was markedly better than the others. I don't have the logfiles handy anymore unfortunately so I guess you'll just have to take my word for it.

RFS is a better weapon to level with 1-30 due to getting less damage truncated by the weapon damage caps. After 30, when you still have little to no damage bonus (you get your first damage bonus point at either 28 or 33 - I forget which) the order will be TStaff > RFS/IFS > PB strictly due to weapon ratio. Once damage bonuses start accumulating, the order at 60 will gradually become correct. IFS is the worst of the bunch in the end but it's not like it's a terrible weapon, and it also has the added bonus of not being super heavy when your weight cap is lower at early levels.

Anecdotally, I leveled with a Peacebringer and got a Tstaff post-50 once I could afford it. This was largely due to IFSs being almost 10k more expensive at the time though. If I were a cash-strapped monk looking for a 2H weapon right now I'd get an IFS or PB, whichever was cheaper. If I were a bit more flush I'd just get a Tstaff. RFS has a price premium because it no longer drops and it's better for twinking and should probably be ignored unless you're rolling a new monk and can afford it AND a Tstaff (or don't mind the EC time it would take to flip the RFS once you're out of weapon cap levels).

[mefdinkins]

Just wanted to add in my 2 cents.

I'm not going to speak about dps parses or anything just my personal experience leveling an alt and having used an IFS and PB.

I originally was looking for IFS/PB for a few days whatever I could get a deal on.

I originally bought an IFS and found I would get myself into difficult situations with the longer delay. At level 20 a max hit (or max double attack) from PB or IFS is going to take a HUGE chunk of the mob's life. Since I was pulling relatively often trying to use bandage/mend I was usually pulling at 50% or 75% hp, I never would pull at 100% hp. So I could kill a blue and take very minimal damage, or get a few unlucky misses and end up taking a lot more damage than I expected. Taking that extra damage and having the mob not flee (if FD fails) could lead to trouble.

After a few deaths - I know I may be bad or impatient but I was disappointed. I ended up finding someone and threw in a few plat to trade IFS for PB. I found that the same issues could arise (especially when pulling white, high blue mobs) but it happened to a lesser extent and my fights were more consistent.

Note - Jade mace is much better until level 20 and you can get two cheaper (I tried keeping 1hand/2hand maxed in the mean time but there is a big differance). Also I didn't consider weight too much because I have some decent twink gear (tink bags and such).

TLDR: I prefer PB while leveling my monk alt.

[AimAce]

Terrible necro.

Also rfs > everything the end.