Why EQ is better

[firesyde424]

So I was sitting on my cleric NFP today, trying to find something useful to make that would repay me the 400 plat I had sunk into my baking skill over the last several days, when I see several purple and blue sprites appear around my cleric and a brown boot surrounded by a blue background appear in my buff window.

Someone had SoW'ed me....

I didn't ask for it, didn't spam or beg or offer to donate. Someone just.. cast SoW on me. It wasn't a big deal. It's happened tons of times already just on P99 since I started playing, and more times than I can count while I played on live. So immersed and steeped into the EQ experience was I, that it didn't really register to me what had happened until I thought back to the several years of WoW that I played, trying to remember if that had ever happened to me in WoW.


Right then, it occurred to me that I couldn't remember another time in any of the other MMO's I had played, and I have played quite a few, that someone had just dropped a random buff on me. In fact, I had tried to remember a time in WoW when I had sat on my druid and just buffed random passersby. I must admit, I couldn't. And yet, earlier today, I had sat on my cleric in EC, buffing and healing newbies while I was working on my baking skill.

And it dawned on me, despite outdated graphics, tortuous(sometimes) gameplay, one of the harshest death penalties in any MMO, and sections of leveling that are quite literally labelled "Hell", Everquest is by far, the best MMO I've played.

What makes it great? The immersion and the community. We have the best community of people, people who will help each other out for no reason other than they want to. People who will stop on their way through EC to buff the newbies. And Immersion.... I created a necro again on this server and still felt the wonder and chills of walking into the Neriak Necro guild for the "first" time.

/salute EQ

[hyzon]

I sometimes have the conversation with my roommate (who started playing), and another buddy about the game.

I'm always speaking of it positively, but after talking about hour long corpse retrievals, or spending 30 minutes to find your way out of a city zone (assuming no maps), and some of the other things that I tend to speak of with awe and respect, I always get the response from people that don't play that rings something like "that sounds miserable why would you want to do that?"

And I acknowledge - To each his own, but I think EQ genuinely makes you work your ass off for what you have. Being a new character doesn't give you the feeling of having 100 buttons to push (especially melee classes), you have to spend some time being horrible before you can be good. I think once you get there you have that much appreciation for what you have, which turns into appreciation for others, because we're all in the same boat.

My roommate, who never had played EQ prior finds himself getting excited about silly stuff. I think two I'm remember most are "WOOO, I found the forest! (Nektulos, after wandering around trying to get out for half an hour)". and a "WOOOO, I just soloed and even and a blue and lived with 3% health." He had been running back and forth to his corpse, and that struggle made him appreciate finally whooping some ass.

So I guess in short (except for not at all), EQ is better to me because of the challenge. I feel like this challenge feeds into the closeness of the community. It attracts a generally more patient, more tolerant, more appreciative sort of crowd.

[Skaff]

It is a great example where gameplay drives the playerbase. Generally speaking, EverQuest requires effort and a commitment from the players. This commitment is made to the character, the people they group with and the server in general. The leveling process takes a good amount of time and most content is designed heavy around teamwork.

Like you, I played WOW for a long time. While there is group content for the game, many things are just done on your own. You are hardly forced to interact with the rest of the players to get anything done and that does show in the community that plays the game. While I still think some of the raw mechanics of WOW is still fun (heck bosses are petty fun and can be a challenge at the TOP TOP end), the community is just a toxic waist land that I can barley stomach.

[President]

Not that im trying to defend WoW, but they really did a fantastic job with the first few 40 man raids.. and I must say they did warriors VERY well...

But yes, nothing close to the atmosphere this game creates... I don't think I ever went around and gave lower levels something - I've easily given away 3k of plat and items away to lower levels here.. and I'm not rich...

[Lazortag]

the generosity in Everquest is really weird and random. I can tell you that in no other MMO would someone just give me a whole bunch of armor for free because I'm low-leveled. This is possibly helped by the fact that Everquest is such a social game (being fairly difficult and requiring people to squad and interact with people to get most things done), so other players aren't just names but actually people who we want to get along with.

[firesyde424]

An old comic I feel is appropriate for this thread:

http://www.cad-comic.com/cad/20031124

[km2783]

I don't even notice the "craptacular" graphics anymore.

And back to the matter at hand, a guy named Glowen buffed my lowbie Cleric to the tune of 500 extra hp and handed me 8pp :D A gnome Mage, whose name escapes me, shortly afterward hit me with a damage shield, and the hell of lvl 3 was short work indeed :eek:

I usually buff everyone I see myself, if they're nekkid or aren't being babysat by a higher level :)

[AR3151]

i try to sow everyone, i dont how many times i will be medding and someone stands in front of me, i just stand up and sow, they just start laughing. They normally say "LOL thanks i didnt even have time to ask"

i try to ALWAY sow if someone is on a CR, hell i will chase them down to SOW

but i agree with the original poster, the people on here are generous, i have gotten money from beetlejuice just from asking if he needs any help selling or whatever when he was camping guards.

[Lumathix]

An old comic I feel is appropriate for this thread:

http://www.cad-comic.com/cad/20031124

Amen brother. Amen.

[Fanatik]

I was reluctant to agree and try this out, but I took the dive yesterday and although I stumbled a bit to get started again with the crap graphics, it began to grow on me. Already, just trying to get Chords of dissonance was an epic affair at level 2, it really made me work for it. I griped and moaned to a buddy, but I did it, and man it felt great!

This thread is awesome and might even make baby jesus cry.

[Nedala]

I stumbled a bit to get started again with the crap graphics

Check this out:

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2482&highlight=graphic

everything just looks better, and you dont loose any classic feeling imo.

[bufferofnewbies]

Makes me miss an old live guild I used to be in: Random Acts (of Kindness).

[Bruman]

Yeah, this game has so much more going for it. The "bad" points to EQ are this:

-It's a difficult game
-It requires a lot of time and effort

WoW looked to remove those, but in doing so, it's had a huge cascading effect of other negatives:

-There is NO challenge
-No community - everyone is a little asshole
-There is no depth

I'll take EQ over WoW any day. I mean, WoW is fun, but it's not at all a "real" game, IMO. It's a "press the button to get a free shiny". In EQ, what you do matters. Dying is something to actually be avoided. You have to learn to work with other people. Gear may last you a long time. Exploration is mandatory, challenging, and in the end, rewarding and extremely fun.

I'm so happy to be back. Too bad I'm not in college anymore hehe, with a job and a kid on the way, I won't be able to play as much as I did "back in the day", but it's still where I want to spend my gaming hours.

[Dork]

I'm loving it. Oh, hey Bruman!

(I remembered someone I grouped with! That didn't happen in other MMO short PUGs)

[BlackBellamy]

Nothing is better than getting a huge HP buff, a regen, a damage shield, and a SOW at level 6. I ran into Blackburrow and gained 2 levels in 15 minutes just letting things die on my DS. I like kind strangers :)

[Fanatik]

Check this out:

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2482&highlight=graphic

everything just looks better, and you dont loose any classic feeling imo.

This worked quite well thanks. Now if I could just get the character models to not look horrible too that would be awesome.

[bionicbadger]

Exploration is mandatory, challenging, and in the end, rewarding and extremely fun.


Thats one thing I kind of miss. Everything is mapped out and documented all over and everyone can look up where the phat lootz are are what to kill and how to do all the quests.

I'd like to see an EQ project (I have no talent to do this myself) something like 1999 but where the named spawn loot was switched around (ie. manastone drops off of a named in Kedge instead of Guk) and the spawn locations were maybe moved to other rooms, where the quests would would maybe be offered by different NPCs and involve talking to or giving stuff to NPCs other than what is written down in Allakhazams. That would bring back the "exploration" part. People wouldn't know right away where things dropped or where to farm specific items.

[Malrubius]

Thats one thing I kind of miss. Everything is mapped out and documented all over and everyone can look up where the phat lootz are are what to kill and how to do all the quests.

I'd like to see an EQ project (I have no talent to do this myself) something like 1999 but where the named spawn loot was switched around (ie. manastone drops off of a named in Kedge instead of Guk) and the spawn locations were maybe moved to other rooms, where the quests would would maybe be offered by different NPCs and involve talking to or giving stuff to NPCs other than what is written down in Allakhazams. That would bring back the "exploration" part. People wouldn't know right away where things dropped or where to farm specific items.

One of the advantages of old age - I've forgetten where a lot of this stuff was. :D

[guineapig]

Thats one thing I kind of miss. Everything is mapped out and documented all over and everyone can look up where the phat lootz are are what to kill and how to do all the quests.

I'd like to see an EQ project (I have no talent to do this myself) something like 1999 but where the named spawn loot was switched around (ie. manastone drops off of a named in Kedge instead of Guk) and the spawn locations were maybe moved to other rooms, where the quests would would maybe be offered by different NPCs and involve talking to or giving stuff to NPCs other than what is written down in Allakhazams. That would bring back the "exploration" part. People wouldn't know right away where things dropped or where to farm specific items.

Not being able to look up locations, quest dialogues and raid strategies would be VERY interesting indeed. Some of the old quest dialogues were extremely vague and purposefully so and took people months to figure out. Often times these were group efforts just figuring out the next piece of the puzzle.

That would be something I would support once this server has finished all of Velious. Creating new custom quests that start in secret locations throughout Norrath. Make them nice and complex but quite not epic quest calibur.

Maybe even have the rewards be all of the items that were previously removed from the game over the years... ie: manastone, guise, Box of Abu-kar, etc. By this point there would be hundreds of people who weren't even around when these items were in the game and it could take weeks to months before the first quest is even figured out.

[Nedala]

This worked quite well thanks. Now if I could just get the character models to not look horrible too that would be awesome.

I dont think thats possible, you can make the pets look luclin-like, but i think thats default anyway.

Most people love the old character models, including myself :)

[Fanatik]

I dont think thats possible, you can make the pets look luclin-like, but i think thats default anyway.

Most people love the old character models, including myself :)

I feel you on the character models thing, but I sort of moved on from that. They do make me smile and remember good times, bunch of little colored squares and triangles owning stuff - ah memories lol.

[Gukag]

Not being able to look up locations, quest dialogues and raid strategies would be VERY interesting indeed. Some of the old quest dialogues were extremely vague and purposefully so and took people months to figure out. Often times these were group efforts just figuring out the next piece of the puzzle.

That would be something I would support once this server has finished all of Velious. Creating new custom quests that start in secret locations throughout Norrath. Make them nice and complex but quite not epic quest calibur.

Maybe even have the rewards be all of the items that were previously removed from the game over the years... ie: manastone, guise, Box of Abu-kar, etc. By this point there would be hundreds of people who weren't even around when these items were in the game and it could take weeks to months before the first quest is even figured out.

That's a great idea. Once we get to the end of the progression (still quite a while to go) I hope GM events and created quests like this would be the focus of the devs.

[Rael]

I'm sure Druids/Pallys would throw random buffs on me in WoW as they ran past all the time...

Buffs in WoW are usually insta-cast, plus the mana spent on them is regained almost instantly. Buffing in EQ costs ALOT more in time/mana. In fact, to turn this thread on its head, EQ is the *only* MMO I've ever played where people are expected to PAY for buffs, which is pretty ridiculous IMO.

/salute WoW on this one I'm afraid.

[km2783]

It costs my lvl 5 Cleric something like 40% of his mana to cast Courage and Holy Armor :eek:

[Omnimorph]

Buffs in WoW are usually insta-cast, plus the mana spent on them is regained almost instantly. Buffing in EQ costs ALOT more in time/mana. In fact, to turn this thread on its head, EQ is the *only* MMO I've ever played where people are expected to PAY for buffs, which is pretty ridiculous IMO.

/salute WoW on this one I'm afraid.

Yeah, and when you want to get from one place to another you click on one of the flight paths, in eq you have to beg a druid or wizard to port you.

EQ community > WoW. And i've never charged for buffs, nor accepted donations. So dunno where you get the expecting to pay for buffs.

Only thing people expect to be paid for are things that take their time to do - like porting. Other's offer their buffs as a service for donations, technically you could donate nothing, but then that'd be a pretty dickish thing to do anyway.

[Malrubius]

Yeah, don't know that I've ever been asked to pay for a buff in EQ. I try to donate or buff back when I can though, just as a "thank you".

Ports, rezzes, corpse summoning - yeah that can cost, but that's because it's time consuming (and can even be dangerous at times) in EQ. That's not the case in a spoon-fed clickfest like WoW though.

What it boils down to is - there's nothing WORTH paying for in WoW. :cool:

[Cscott]

I agree, its good for this reason as well as the equal level of attention seekers. EQ Drama is the best on the internets.

[Kainzo]

So I was sitting on my cleric NFP today, trying to find something useful to make that would repay me the 400 plat I had sunk into my baking skill over the last several days, when I see several purple and blue sprites appear around my cleric and a brown boot surrounded by a blue background appear in my buff window.

Someone had SoW'ed me....

I didn't ask for it, didn't spam or beg or offer to donate. Someone just.. cast SoW on me. It wasn't a big deal. It's happened tons of times already just on P99 since I started playing, and more times than I can count while I played on live. So immersed and steeped into the EQ experience was I, that it didn't really register to me what had happened until I thought back to the several years of WoW that I played, trying to remember if that had ever happened to me in WoW.


Right then, it occurred to me that I couldn't remember another time in any of the other MMO's I had played, and I have played quite a few, that someone had just dropped a random buff on me. In fact, I had tried to remember a time in WoW when I had sat on my druid and just buffed random passersby. I must admit, I couldn't. And yet, earlier today, I had sat on my cleric in EC, buffing and healing newbies while I was working on my baking skill.

And it dawned on me, despite outdated graphics, tortuous(sometimes) gameplay, one of the harshest death penalties in any MMO, and sections of leveling that are quite literally labelled "Hell", Everquest is by far, the best MMO I've played.

What makes it great? The immersion and the community. We have the best community of people, people who will help each other out for no reason other than they want to. People who will stop on their way through EC to buff the newbies. And Immersion.... I created a necro again on this server and still felt the wonder and chills of walking into the Neriak Necro guild for the "first" time.

/salute EQ

I agree that EQ players are far more helpful (generally)... though I'll take the drugs you're having about the chills in the necro guild ;)

[Tallenn]

You have to remember with WOW though that buffs were level-restricted right from the beginning. Plus, buffs don't make a really huge difference in your ability to survive. There also isn't any run speed or hitpoint regen or mana regen buff you could cast on someone else.

However in EQ, throw a Sow, Skin like nature, chloroplast and shield of thorns on a level 1, and he can solo stuff 8 or 9 levels above himself- heal him while he's fighting, and he can go even higher. Give a clarity to a soloing caster, and it will speed up their experience gain considerably. Give a SoW to anyone, and it just makes their life better in general, whether they are going somewhere or experiencing.

Drive-by buffing makes a much bigger impact on the recipient in EQ than in most other games, and that probably has an effect on why it is so much more common.

[hyzon]

The comparison as I see it; In WoW you're treated like you're someone else in traffic speeding to where you want to go.

In EverQuest, you're on vacation with friends, so however the day takes you, it takes you.

[Velothi]

The EQ community simply can't be beat. I also think that the fact that a vast majority of the population here are older (at least in their 20's), that there's a lot more maturity (or at least a lot less selfishness) on p1999 than on newer MMOs or even on Live.

The one thing I always tell friends about EQ is the reputation that your character gets. That reputation expands beyond just being good at your class or being the loudest in /ooc and into the 'little' things such as handing a newbie some loot you don't really need, or handing out buffs to random people as you pass through. I know I try to hit people with crack whenever I'm sitting LFG or passing by in part because of this.

[Adso]

Two thumbs up for all the charity buffers... only level 13 and I can't count the number of free claritys and sow's among other buffs I've gotten from random folks running by. Super generous server.

[Omnimorph]

Two thumbs up for all the charity buffers... only level 13 and I can't count the number of free claritys and sow's among other buffs I've gotten from random folks running by. Super generous server.

Those clarities aren't free! They're on your tab! :p

[Malrubius]

So last night I log on for a short bit with my lightly twinked level 4 Troll SK, and I head for the entrance of Upper Guk.

The two frog guards at the entrance are yellow to me, so they're level 5 I guess. I try pulling one, but both come.


First off, I see again first-hand how well tanks are able to stand up to abuse (long time caster here). I wasn't instantly squished!

Secondly, a small crowd of higher levels is sitting around - I guess getting ready to do their own thing in UGuk. A couple of them watch me duking it out, without interfering. But as I get pretty low on HP, I get a heal. Then I get buffed. I DING LEVEL 5. I get grats'd from these (relatively) uber people in their shiny armor and stuff :p

Anyway, yeah, this kind of stuff happens all the time in EQ. I played WoW for months at one point, but don't remember anything similar happening. I don't even remember needing help or particularly caring about dying either.

[km2783]

I don't even remember needing help or particularly caring about dying either.

I would often use dying as a tool in WoW to complete a quest faster or get to other enemies when the path was blocked by stuff I couldn't handle LOL. :rolleyes:

[Landis]

the only time i cared about dying in wow was when i got ganked by another player while fighting mobs/having low health ;)

funny, people would get sick of progression raiding in wow because of the repair costs. but i remember raids in eq where people would actually lose level 50/60 because they had died so many times.

[Konu]

the only time i cared about dying in wow was when i got ganked by another player while fighting mobs/having low health ;)

funny, people would get sick of progression raiding in wow because of the repair costs. but i remember raids in eq where people would actually lose level 50/60 because they had died so many times.

Some true motivation to avoid death. :)

[Byokii]

funny, people would get sick of progression raiding in wow because of the repair costs. but i remember raids in eq where people would actually lose level 50/60 because they had died so many times.
^^^ So true.

Also in WoW someone will stand behind you, and watch you die so they can get the quest mob. Rather than wait the whole 3 min for the respawn... Seriously? In EQ People would help you with your quest spawn, and then wait there for 6 hours...

[km2783]

^^^ So true.

Also in WoW someone will stand behind you, and watch you die so they can get the quest mob. Rather than wait the whole 3 min for the respawn... Seriously? In EQ People would help you with your quest spawn, and then wait there for 6 hours...

Or gank you near death for the easy honor AND the quest kill :mad:

[lumin]

What I love the most about EQ is how tense it can be when hunting in a zone with mobs much higher than your own level. The thing is, is that in almost every zone you go into, there are going to be a few outlying mobs that are much stronger than you roaming around. Running into one of these and barely escaping is truly a hair-raising experience.

Having high level mobs in lower-level zones gives a good reason to go back to old zones when you've become much stronger later. WoW doesn't do this: when you've leveled up beyond a zone, it's pointless to ever return, making the game feel like you're on rails.

What makes it even more exciting is the faction system. One day mobs in a zone may completely ignore you, but walk back in there a while later and they may have all turned against you.

So even though EQ is very grindy, there's always something around the corner to keep you on your toes. It requires a quick wit and even some FPS "twitchiness" sometimes to avoid or defeat harder mobs.

[Adso]

Those clarities aren't free!

One clarity ninja found. Thanks Omni!

They're on your tab! :p

Fiddlebeans.

[Bruman]

What I love the most about EQ is how tense it can be when hunting in a zone with mobs much higher than your own level. The thing is, is that in almost every zone you go into, there are going to be a few outlying mobs that are much stronger than you roaming around. Running into one of these and barely escaping is truly a hair-raising experience.

Having high level mobs in lower-level zones gives a good reason to go back to old zones when you've become much stronger later. WoW doesn't do this: when you've leveled up beyond a zone, it's pointless to ever return, making the game feel like you're on rails.

What makes it even more exciting is the faction system. One day mobs in a zone may completely ignore you, but walk back in there a while later and they may have all turned against you.

So even though EQ is very grindy, there's always something around the corner to keep you on your toes. It requires a quick wit and even some FPS "twitchiness" sometimes to avoid or defeat harder mobs.

Yeah, I like all this too. You always need to be on the lookout.

It can be a pain at times, but overall, I think having multi-level mobs in the same area is rewarding as far as "immersion" goes. Even in dungeons that don't have random reds wandering around, the next corner or the next floor typically has some higher camps, so you need to be wary.

Speaking back to WoW -every mob in the zone is the same. If there is an elite, it's usually off in it's own area, or it's not KoS to you. Once again, it can be a pain, but who doesn't have some fondness for memories of the first time you saw a giant in Oasis, or the first time you were in NRO and was like "WHO THE HELL WAS THAT DARK ELF THAT JUST SLAUGHTERED ME!??!". Hell, even if something does kill you in WoW, who cares? I'm not a big fan of exp removal as a death penalty (who doesn't learn from their mistakes?), but at least it's something that you care about instead of what WoW has - although I played the DK intro levels just to see the storyline, and when I died there, some dark angel thing brought me back to life immediately even.

There's much more variety in EQ, even with mobs that are the same level. Some mobs die quicker than others. Some are nukers that will mess you up if you don't act quick (madmen, festering hags, etc). Every mob in a game like WoW, for a given level, has basically the exact same HP and deals the exact same damage, regardless what "class" it's supposed to be.

[stormlord]

One cool thing about this game back then (and now) was that most items are tradeable.

But bottom line: It's better because it's what I want to play right now.

[Bruman]

One cool thing about this game back then (and now) was that most items are tradeable.

Yeah, it's a nice change from everything being soulbound. Eventually it hurts the economy, but it's nice to know that one day an exp group can camp Frenzy instead of it being solely farmed.

[Nedala]

Wait till you ding 50 and this will become the worst game in the 20th century.

Hurry up and enjoy it before it's too late.

somone is buthurt by ib lol