Helping population - a moderate approach to permabans

[Dullah]

Taken from the question thread to prevent mucking it up...



Im referring to boxing (ok in all other games/places) as opposed to major offenses which really hurt the server like hacking/3rd party programs (not ok anywhere).

You have a simple solution sitting in front of you that would help the server a ton which is the removal of IP exemptions with those players who've been caught boxing. I refuse to believe staff are serious about helping Red99 so long as they permaban accounts, resulting in a huge negative impact on the community, when they could simply prevent the problem before it becomes a serious issue. In reality, if someone is so deadset on boxing and breaking the rules, they would most likely quit with the removal of their exemption anyway.
You realize that people use vpns, hotspot shields, aircards etc. to box right? so removing their IP exemption won't help in most cases.
@Amelinda - I know you know the statistics on what players are abusing IP exemption, and that they are vastly higher than those using other methods of boxing. Every player I've ever heard about being caught boxing did it via IP exemptions. If they are using other methods then I understand them being dealt with accordingly, but the average person breaking this rule is going to be doing it using a method you can easily moderate.

2. I'm not quite as dumb as people think I am.
4. The reason all the players that were caught boxing admit to being on the same IP is because they don't want to admit that i'm smarter than them.

So this is what it's really about, exercising how much smarter you are than kids boxing?

Are you really trying to say that the vast majority of people caught boxing aren't doing so via simple IP exemptions?

In other words, you'd rather continue banning scrubs because catching them provides you with feelings of personal accomplishment and a source of pride which is more important than taking a more moderate approach to crushing thousands of hours of work, eliminating players and friends of players necessary for us to group with, and stunting the growth of the server - resulting in a far less populated, far less appealing game for new prospect players?

Amelinda, please stop being trolled by people calling and/or implying you're stupid. Most of us are glad you are here and find you more than capable of GMing the server. You don't have anything to prove. You don't have to permaban people to assert your adept player-boxing perception. Theres a better solution is all I'm saying.

[Lazortag]

How the fuck did you deduce this:

So this is what it's really about, exercising how much smarter you are than kids boxing?


In other words, you'd rather continue banning scrubs because catching them provides you with feelings of personal accomplishment and a source of pride

from this:


4. The reason all the players that were caught boxing admit to being on the same IP is because they don't want to admit that i'm smarter than them.

???

[Dullah]

If you have to ask, I can't explain it to you.

[Dullah]

In response to harrisons troll (deleted apparently):

Wrong, wrong, and wrong again, per the usual.

I have friends to play with, neither I, nor they need to box. I have no IP exemptions, nor do any of them.

This isn't the same for everyone obviously, and with the steadily declining population, some ideas have to be presented to prevent the death of a dying box. If it can't be ascertained through friendly suggestions, then perhaps something more direct...

People love this game, and when they can't find players in range to level and progress with, ultimately some will resort to boxing, whether to exp, camp items or simply to transfer or teleport. Its just a crying shame when theres more accounts banned than active due to the more trivial boxing offenses.

[Amelinda]

no. that's not what it's about. I ban people for boxing because it's against the rules for them to box.

I don't like banning for boxing. I feel it is good for the server because of the following:

Some people who box....

...RMT
...hack
...cheat in other ways.

it ultimately ruins things for the average player. But the rule is nilbog and rogeans. so i uphold it.

[hagard]

How does people boxing increase population?????

[Amelinda]

and i'd like to say i had banned people on red for boxing in exping. most of them were doing trades...2-boxing to trade items. totally not fair to other people.

[HarrisonStillPosting]

This is a thread that belongs in rants and flames, since it is both.

I'm going to go post threads in the wrong section and I expect everyone suspended who flames in it.

[Dullah]

How does people boxing increase population?????
People resort to boxing
> people get banned
> other people quit because their friend was banned
> other people quit because friends got their character banned
> other people quit because their friend quit
> other people quit because their friend quit
> other people quit because their friend quit
> other people quit because their friend quit
> guilds disband/quit because members quitting
> players stop playing because not enough other players
> players stop joining server because not enough players
> server dies

Its a cycle. I am all for rules, upholding the rules. This thread isnt endorsing boxing. This thread isn't defending boxers (neither in Game, or that you wear). I do however suggest that if a more moderate/temperate step be taken prior to permabans relating to boxing, it may (will) help the server ultimately.

[HarrisonStillPosting]

Permaban people too stupid to not follow the rules.

2boxing is against the rules. You blatantly ignore it, you get banned.

[Dullah]

Or, on red99 where as of late the population rarely gets over 100, perhaps they box because the most group focused MMO in history doesn't have enough people to form a group, find a port, sell an item, make a trade or transfer to another character...

[Humerox]

There are a plethora of reasons boxing is unhealthy for server population. P99 proved that boxing was unnecessary; there were heated arguments starting in beta that didn't abate until the population started exceeding two and three hundred regularly.

The problems with server population on Red99 are due to a great number of factors. Introducing boxing - or even becoming more lenient with punishment - would make play viable for fewer people, but would inhibit growth, for obvious reasons.

Rebuilding and attracting new players should take priority over lessening punishment for players that are willing to bend or break rules.

[HarrisonStillPosting]

"I only cheated because I couldn't do it with what I had available to me."

That makes it okay, right?

[Amelinda]

This is a thread that belongs in rants and flames, since it is both.

I'm going to go post threads in the wrong section and I expect everyone suspended who flames in it.

This isn't Gotham and you aren't Batman, you do not get to practice vigilante justice - Sirken.

be patient.

[Slave]

The population crashed because certain problems at server launch too loo long to fix, the main one being guards actually guarding players.

The population never rebounded because there are no Teams on this server, so it's a solitary and uphill battle to accomplish anything, and when you do, there aren't enough people around to appreciate it to make it worthwhile.

[Dullah]

Rebuilding and attracting new players should take priority over lessening punishment for players that are willing to bend or break rules.

You need to rethink this, because you're kidding yourself. Tomorrow morning JoeEQhardcore notices theres a classic server of his favorite old game. He doesn't decide whether not to play because of staff policy on permafucking people boxing, he plays because theres people online in a group oriented game.

Furthermore, this isnt about the pros or cons of boxing. Simply about what will help a server thats looking like it will inevitably die.

[SamwiseRed]

I ask for special privilege, knowing if I abuse this privilage, it is bannable. I abuse the privilage and get banned. Makes sense to me. If someone really loved this server they wouldnt break the rules. In the case someone was really desperate, I am sorry but its just a ban. Make a new character and drive on.

[Humerox]

You need to rethink this, because you're kidding yourself.

I'd be willing to listen to an argument that could sway my thinking. Let me pose a question.

Other than making play more viable for a small, static population...explain to me how making grouping less viable for incoming new players, while increasing problems elsewhere in the game (camps, healbots, pocket chanters for buffs, etc.) is going to stimulate sustained growth?

Edit: I'm asking this because a more lenient approach to banning boxers certainly is not going to discourage it. It will encourage it to a point where policing it would be a ridiculous task.

[karsten]

lawl slave talking about teams up in this thread

[Mornin3.0]

I don't like banning for boxing. I feel it is good for the server because of the following:

Some people who box....

...RMT
...hack
...cheat in other ways.



Boxing confirmed gateway drug

[Cast v27.5]

This thread is retarded ofc boxing is a perma. There isnt a bigger advantage to take then boxing 2 char when its not allowable. Sounds like destins pals ate some bans. No holo has ever boxed before shit id love to be able to full druid buff myself every 30m but im not a cheater scum

[Nolanite]

Permaban people too stupid to not follow the rules.

2boxing is against the rules. You blatantly ignore it, you get banned.

Why do you even waste your time coming to these forums still? Aren't you banned?

[Amelinda]

This thread is retarded ofc boxing is a perma. There isnt a bigger advantage to take then boxing 2 char when its not allowable. Sounds like destins pals ate some bans. No holo has ever boxed before shit id love to be able to full druid buff myself every 30m but im not a cheater scum

False. Amelinda confirms having banned at least 1 person flying "Holocaust" flag for boxing. Sorry Pal.

BUT!!! you are totally right on the boxing thing.

I haven't caught any boxers on either server in a few days. I'm very happy :)

[Cast v27.5]

Sounds like an imposter member

[HarrisonStillPosting]

Owned, faggot Janitor.

[gnomishfirework]

Since people who 2box have to go out of their way to break the rule, its obvious they know its against the rules. Its silly to not have it result in a permaban.

[goalie]

Speeding is against the rules too, but everyone does a little and most dont get caught.

Boxing shouldn't be a big deal just to trade an item or toss a buff or something for helping your lowbie level.

disallowing something that honestly doesn't hurt anyone doesn't help an already dying server.

I'm sure all you rule nuthuggers have never gone over the speed limit in your car, never smoked a joint, never cheated on a test or a girlfriend or ever broken any rule ever.

[heartbrand]

Enable shared banks

[dcapotos]

Speeding is against the rules too, but everyone does a little and most dont get caught.

Boxing shouldn't be a big deal just to trade an item or toss a buff or something for helping your lowbie level.

disallowing something that honestly doesn't hurt anyone doesn't help an already dying server.

I'm sure all you rule nuthuggers have never gone over the speed limit in your car, never smoked a joint, never cheated on a test or a girlfriend or ever broken any rule ever.

When you get older and MATURE enough, you realize that these rules are here for a good reason, are not worth breaking, and that hard work, dedication, and honestly are very honorable traits that are worth it in the long run.

[bigeasy]

What the OP is stating is simple. We have a struggling population on the server, people make mistakes and bad judgment calls in all walks of life. Whether they're naive, or think they can get away with it, people fuck up. There is NO fine line between boxing and hacking. They are worlds apart, "boxing" is generally accepted in the MMO community by live games.

Unfortunately, this has fallen on deaf ears. They run a tight ship here, and it is what it is. If you got caught, level up a new character because staff here is not interested in second chances which ultimately is afforded to people in everything else, but not here.

[Tradesonred]

If you implement a rule like say:

First infraction: a week ban

Second infraction: a month ban

Lots of people will think: "I get 2 get out of jail free cards before i have to stop boxing. On this account"

[heartbrand]

If you implement a rule like say:

First infraction: a week ban

Second infraction: a month ban

Lots of people will think: "I get 2 get out of jail free cards before i have to stop boxing. On this account"

Grats on first intelligent post

[Amelinda]

Speeding is against the rules too, but everyone does a little and most dont get caught.

Boxing shouldn't be a big deal just to trade an item or toss a buff or something for helping your lowbie level.

disallowing something that honestly doesn't hurt anyone doesn't help an already dying server.

I'm sure all you rule nuthuggers have never gone over the speed limit in your car, never smoked a joint, never cheated on a test or a girlfriend or ever broken any rule ever.

I very rarely speed. I don't break rules. I have never smoked a joint or done any illegal drugs at all. Have never cheated on a test or paper or anything like that, never cheated on a boyfriend.

Rules are there for a reason.

[Cast v27.5]

Speeding is against the rules too, but everyone does a little and most dont get caught.

Boxing shouldn't be a big deal just to trade an item or toss a buff or something for helping your lowbie level.

disallowing something that honestly doesn't hurt anyone doesn't help an already dying server.

I'm sure all you rule nuthuggers have never gone over the speed limit in your car, never smoked a joint, never cheated on a test or a girlfriend or ever broken any rule ever.

Attack of the straw man

Poster is clearly stupid irl so he wont understand my reply. Still not sure what this argument is about because there isnt a more clear advantageous method of cheating on a pvp server than boxing when other people cant.

[Amelinda]

Attack of the straw man

Poster is clearly stupid irl so he wont understand my reply. Still not sure what this argument is about because there isnt a more clear advantageous method of cheating on a pvp server than boxing when other people cant.

It is very rare that I find myself agreeing with Cast ;)

You have to look at this like this.....this is PVP box. WAY different from a PVE Box.

If we go easy on a blue box on this then sure...gold farmers may get richer, the economy may suffer. guilds may have skewed advantages. If we go easy on boxers on the red box it would be devastating.

There is a very special subset of people out there on the web who enjoy ACTUAL TRUE PVP (Not the instanced battlegrounds junk) There is an even smaller subset of those folks who enjoy Classic EQ or EQ PVP. So the pool of possible people that we could ever get to play here is finite anyway.

many people have left for various reasons over the past few months and that leaves us with an even smaller set of people to play on our box.

When you have a smaller population then cause and effect is always more pronounced. The waves seem larger because there are fewer people.

Because there are fewer people to group with / trade with / buff each other and just generally hang out with......it makes things different than on a more populated blue server

We have nightly a population of around 130. That's a small number of people when you spread them over 100 zones. If Cast comes at me 1v1 lvl 50 bard v lvl 50 bard then we could legitimately PVP for a long time depending on how dedicated we both are to the fight and our skill. If I am secretly schlepping around a druid box it's over. If Cast beats me then I'm stupid, but more than that it is INCREDIBLY unfair to him. I get bored of PVP? We can both run the same run speed. so he could keep up with me no matter what. Unless I ran over to where I have a hidden druid and cast port on my druid and time it to land just after i get there. Or a well timed heal or nuke.

Not only that, but the second box would enable me to farm equipment so much easier than Cast who would have to wait for a second person to play a druid.

Something like this is a MASSIVE Game breaker and I read pleas for lenience and i'm like "Gee! You either haven't thought this through or just don't care."

People always think their behavior warrants a shortening of the sentence.

"But I was only trading items over to my alt"
Ok. But that's not fair to the other 100 people who chose not to cheat, who have to wait for HOURS sometimes to trade items over, or they ultimately drop transfer and then get fucked because the items poof when the login server goes down or because Amapolo ran through the zone and found the items and "Finders-keepers'd" them. It's not fair to the people who ask a guildy to transfer items and the guildy /q's and steals their stuff. Yes. Small offense. But HUGE ramifications when you look at the entire picture.

"But I was only Porting/buffing!"
Again that is not fair to the 100 or so other people who have to wait for a port or find a druid. Had a player petition yesterday because he handed his last 10 plat to a druid who said he'd port this guy to commonlands and then the druid ran off and responded he didn't even have that port.

"I just had my trader there because I was looking to buy X"
And i'm sure everyone else wishes they had that luxury as well.

"I was only waiting for X to spawn while i messed around on my bard."

Well. Once again. It is unfair to the other people who choose to follow the rules.

I don't LIKE being a hardass. But It's totally unfair to go easy on people breaking the rules when everyone else follows them.

PS - Bringing up the macroquest people on blue as your excuse as to why you should be unbanned for boxing = lame. That wasn't my decision and honey...It will NOT get you anywhere with me. So you can all quit that road of discussion now :)

[Tassador]

very good points indeed. we definately dont need mike tyson and floyd "money" mayweather on this server.

keep it to one window or comp silly

[bamzal]

ahh text walllll

[SamwiseRed]

cant believe people still defending boxers. perma ban and move on. whoever said boxing was a gateway drug was correct. if someone is boxing, knowing its permabannble, pretty sure they doin something else too.

[Cast v27.5]

Boxing isnt a gateway drug its the hardest drug on the market. Macroquest doesnt hold a candle to the unfairness of having a buffbot in pvp. So again why is this even a question? Does someone still not understand?

[Dullah]

Again, since it keeps getting taken in 100 different directions, the issue is whether they can start removing IP exemptions rather than banning accounts.

I'm not against the rule, just the punishment because its a major reason our already small population is almost nonexistent.

If this was blue where they have 1000 active players with as many as 800 online at a time, yes it would be important to strongly enforce the boxing policy.

This is not blue, we don't have those numbers, nor can we afford to lose a few dozen people. I bet theres more banned accounts for abusing IP exemption right now, than active players online tonight at primetime. Sad, considering removal of their exemption would be punishment enough, without affecting the overall health of the server.

Really though, it just doesn't matter. Highs arent breaking 100 on red, lows are down to less than what you'd find in karnors castle on blue. Servers dead. Its ok though, stick to your guns! Make sure you scan those 30 people online right now, I bet at least 3 of them are boxing.:rolleyes:

[heartbrand]

Why does this guy keep thinking the only people who box are those using an ip exemp?

[Dullah]

Its the easiest way to do it, therefore the most popular. Its also the most easily detected way of doing it, therefore, the most banned.

[Greegon]

On second thought, looking at the sadly dwindling population, maybe we shouldn't be so quick to banhammer everyone. One thing I've discussed with guildies is the MQ problem--people probably don't know MQ is not allowed if theyre coming from other EMUs and as such may be banned before they even know whatsup. I personally didn't care to read the rules or the forums for the first 2 years of my being here, so it would make sense to me that accidents happen. Also, rather than perma-ban these people off of the bat maybe doing something like de-leveling them to lvl 1 and removing all of their items/pp on accounts touched by their IP. Then you could put them on a watchlist and if they keep breaking rules you could give them a long suspension/maybe a ban. Definitely removing exemptions works too. Maybe time to try something different?

Same goes for other exploiters :D Punish! Don't turn a blind eye

[Greegon]

Hearing people say that they've heard "8" people got banned today is a little discouraging when the server pop. sucks even if they are cheating at a 12-year-old game! New punishment!

[Faywind]

Honestly, nothing is going to save R99, it's far too late for that. The whole 2-boxing argument is a moot point.

[Dullah]

So says you, but what do you know. Could be right and I'm grasping at straws, but I think its worth a shot since at this point theres nothin to lose (except the server).

[kazroth]

There are many ways to make the red server a more enjoyable place, wouldn't you agree?

Why is your suggestion to let the ethics and values be the first to go?

"If you build it, they will come." But your suggestion sounds like, "They will come, if you let them destroy it."

[Amelinda]

Here is why we can't simply take IP Exemptions away for the multiboxing problem (And I am VERY VERY Loathe to make this public because I am afraid it will give some of these idiots ideas.

Do you know how long it takes me to do 1 IP Exemption as it is? It takes me a VERY VERY Long time. 3-4 minutes at minimum if it's a simple 2 account exemption. We don't have Soulmarks yet on the GM side of things. So there is no way for me to simply take an account and mark it to NEVER have an IP Exemption ever again. And trust me. This would make it take 15 minutes for 1 ip exemption. I won't go into details of why but it totally would. All to make sure we were catering to being "Moderate"

In addition to that - Not everyone boxes via IP exemption.

1 - Bilefroth (RMTer) Was caught 4 boxing the Efreeti last April with a cleric, mage, sk and shaman. He was using 3 IP addresses (Cell phone tether, wireless air card & 1 ip exemption)

2 - Caught a random guy on blue about a month ago who was boxing 3 characters and admitted to me he had 3 ip addresses on 3 computers side by side and he was using that set up. 0 exemptions.

3 - Caught 3 2-boxers in Lesserfaydark last May. They were using 0 Ip exemptions between all 6 accounts. Proxies ftw.

I've had other ex-boxers admit to me the way they were boxing using other methods to make it LOOK like they are totally different people.

Removing IP Exemptions from people who are caught would not help. Removing IP Exemptions altogether would ONLY Penalize people who legitimately want to play with family & Friends just so we could deter the 4 people who don't know how to obtain an alternate IP address to box.

Unfortunately it's just not a very effective way to do it.

[kazroth]

3-4 minutes at minimum if it's a simple 2 account exemption.

Guessing you meant 3-4 hours here?

[Amelinda]

Guessing you meant 3-4 hours here?

no. 3-4 minutes. PER exemption. And that is assuming I don't find problems as I'm looking them up. If a previous boxer has requested an exemption i have to then try to weed through and find their accounts to remove all exemptions etc.

It takes time. I have to make sure the account is a valid account. Make sure it's in good standing. Make sure they aren't cheaters etc.

It takes time.

and this is really a gross underestimate.

This may not sound like a long time to you but figure that people request exemptions for around 150 accounts a week. if I sit down to exempt 150 accounts I am probably spending 7 hours exempting.

[Marglar]

jesus you get 150 requests for ip excemptions weekly? that is insane.

[SamwiseRed]

150 a week, people be lying like a mofo(the people asking for IP exemptions not AMelinda.)

[Cast v27.5]

I wonder where Destin was when most of holo got banned for supposed xploiting of naggy... beginning his nihilum experience. Were u as outraged about that incident because for the life of me i cant understand ur stance on cutting 2boxers a break with population as the backbone of ur argument.

Can u think of anything more unfair than a few ppl having the ability to box on a pvp server? Most of us from vztz pvp just the same running 1 or 2 chars, so it makes a potential kill into an impossible kill and hell id love to b able to full buff my bard for every engagement instead of just lev and jboot. Lol any impactful use of the char absolutely flips the script for pvp and perma is super fine with me until every1 can box

[Lazortag]

For the record I tend to agree a bit more with Cast on the boxing issue, with the caveat that I think boxing equally bad for the blue server. One big difference between blue and red is the outrageous variance on raid mobs on blue, which probably leads some people to 2-box trackers with their mains. This just isn't a problem on red (however, people on pvp servers obviously get other advantages from 2-boxing).

I think the punishment is fitting because it's difficult to enforce, so you need an even greater deterrent for it. It also gives you a massive unfair advantage and you really can't claim you didn't know it was against the rules when they always tell you it is after you request an IP exemption (and if you're using a proxy, obviously you know you're circumventing the rules). There are some ways we can help the population, but extra leniency isn't one of them.

150 a week, people be lying like a mofo

Probably, but keep in mind some people have multiple accounts. I have five accounts IP exempted between me and my fiancee, because she has one account and I have access to (at least) four others.

[Slathar]

Destin banned for cheating on the glorious box. Praise Amelinda for keeping our box free of cheaters, griefers, and exploiters.

GL leveling another wizard, hah.

[Amuk]

I would prefer two boxing, so I feel for Destin - but if the rule stands, and I have to pvp on a buffless rogue getting rooted like 30% with my unbuffed 120 mr, then he should be held to the punishment of taking the chance.

[traderbro]

LOL Destin banned, didnt u read the rules bud? QQ more.

[Amelinda]

I said I exempt 150 accounts. (60-75 exemptions) That his for red server AND Blue server. Some people play from a household of 3-4 people. I personally know people who play from a situation like that. Other people have lan parties at times.

I try to make people pick 2 accounts to play together (So don't put characters on different accounts. etc :P )

[kazroth]

Remember: This is Norrath, Not Gotham. You are a player...not Batman. You DO NOT get to take the law into your own hands.
I would just like to point out... Batman wasn't allowed to take the law into his own hands, either. In fact, he started his 'crusade' because the 'law' was so corrupt. It came down to the point that somebody had to do it.

Not saying that's the case here, just thought the quote was funny! :p

[Cast v27.5]

No wonder he came up with those ridiculous arguments, he got caught doing the ultimate nono and wanted a way out. Sorry pal no one here is stupid enough to agree with u even before knowing u got pinched.

Anyway good riddance, population -1 is fine by me given that u probably boxed a buffbot the entire time u played. Considering 2 of my 10 pvp deaths were from fighting 1v4+ u guys in guk and getting ic'd by u, im going to remove those from legimate killshots due to ur cheating. The more u know.

[kazroth]

Destin banned for cheating on the glorious box. Praise Amelinda for keeping our box free of cheaters, griefers, and exploiters.

GL leveling another wizard, hah.

Wait, the guy who created this post has been banned for boxing? Priceless.

[Humerox]

Boxing isnt a gateway drug its the hardest drug on the market. Macroquest doesnt hold a candle to the unfairness of having a buffbot in pvp. So again why is this even a question? Does someone still not understand?

Damn...I agree with Cast. Hell just froze over.

[Cast v27.5]

Tbh bro im always right ppl just dont like the way i present and flaunt my perfection so they subconcipusly disagree

[Dullah]

Never banned, don't box, never argued in favor of boxing. I dont want boxing to be allowed.

I don't however think its healthy for a dying server to permaban (or 3/4/5 month ban) players for abusing an IP exemption. Just that, thats all. I have only tried to point out I think its counterproductive to ban someone abusing an IP exemption when you could simply remove their IP exemption.

I'm just trying to think of ways to help the population. I guess all thats left is just releasing content.

[Cast v27.5]

Ugh arguing the same stupid point about population. Id be relieved if u were trolling but i think u just have assbergers

[lethdar]

Destin trying to get fallen unbanned, looool.

[Dullah]

I wouldn't care if they made a new rule starting today and left everyone banned still banned. If it would help a dead box.

[Cast v27.5]

Ok the new rule: if u break the most impactful rule on the server, we will only suspend u for 10 days because we desperately need ur 2 boxes counted on the server pop menu for posterity, policy&legitimacy be damned. Assberger King Destin demands it.

[heartbrand]

The only thing I could see is knocking down permas to 2 month bans or something as one time amnesty. Seems long enough to get the point across and if they are truly dedicated they'd already have another 50 within 2 months anyway.

[kazroth]

Never banned

That's what I get for listening to the forums and expecting truth, haha... Sorry, mate.

[Nirgon]

no. that's not what it's about. I ban people for boxing because it's against the rules for them to box.

I don't like banning for boxing. I feel it is good for the server because of the following:

Some people who box....

...RMT
...hack
...cheat in other ways.

it ultimately ruins things for the average player. But the rule is nilbog and rogeans. so i uphold it.

Alright but how do you feel about people taking up your free time to gain an unfair advantage? I'd be pissed?

If it was completely allowed throughout, I'd say OK fine and be done with it.

But it isn't.

As far as the Rogean/Nilbog deal, I'd say I put stock in them. Now if we could juuuust get them to back you up more with things in game... things wouldn't turn out the way they do.

[herpaderp]

balblablablabla

bla bla

bla bla ( n o one cares ) Bla

[Haul]

Taken from the question thread to prevent mucking it up...



So this is what it's really about, exercising how much smarter you are than kids boxing?

Are you really trying to say that the vast majority of people caught boxing aren't doing so via simple IP exemptions?

In other words, you'd rather continue banning scrubs because catching them provides you with feelings of personal accomplishment and a source of pride which is more important than taking a more moderate approach to crushing thousands of hours of work, eliminating players and friends of players necessary for us to group with, and stunting the growth of the server - resulting in a far less populated, far less appealing game for new prospect players?

Amelinda, please stop being trolled by people calling and/or implying you're stupid. Most of us are glad you are here and find you more than capable of GMing the server. You don't have anything to prove. You don't have to permaban people to assert your adept player-boxing perception. Theres a better solution is all I'm saying.

I've always been cool with Destin, and have to agree with everything he said. Pretty much all the shit Amelinda and the dev staff does hurts the server population and freedom/fun that comes along with gaming.

[Haul]

Speeding is against the rules too, but everyone does a little and most dont get caught.

Boxing shouldn't be a big deal just to trade an item or toss a buff or something for helping your lowbie level.

disallowing something that honestly doesn't hurt anyone doesn't help an already dying server.

I'm sure all you rule nuthuggers have never gone over the speed limit in your car, never smoked a joint, never cheated on a test or a girlfriend or ever broken any rule ever.

Ya no freakin shit, servers full of sooooo many hypocrites and self righteous nerds.

[Cast v27.5]

Rmt funds run out yet???

[Pitborn]

Some kids ( now adults ) still dont know how to play by the rules.

[Harrison]

^ banned for cheating. Haul, not the ninja posters

[Humerox]

Cheaters hurt the server population and freedom/fun that comes along with gaming.

Fixed.

[Haul]

Fixed.

Why you takin a shot at me, we've never even crossed paths, and I got respect for you from previous posts of yours I've read. I've always had respect for your guild too. If some of you guys classify RMT as cheating I respectfully disagree. Cheating is using third party shit/boxing/exploiting to take an advantage in the game. Don't act jealous of the guap I made.

[Harrison]

The only thing I could see is knocking down permas to 2 month bans or something as one time amnesty. Seems long enough to get the point across and if they are truly dedicated they'd already have another 50 within 2 months anyway.

There have been way too many "one time amnesties" already.

Legitimate people find all these numerous "one time amnesties" we've had, disgusting.

[goalie]

I very rarely speed. I don't break rules. I have never smoked a joint or done any illegal drugs at all. Have never cheated on a test or paper or anything like that, never cheated on a boyfriend.

Rules are there for a reason.

I understand what you're saying, you're a hardcore rule follower and have never broken a rule or law in your life.

Fair enough.

But if someone does get caught speeding, or smoking a joint, are they sent for capital punishment? No, they're very rarely even sent to jail for such minor offenses.

Why not give people the benefit of the doubt and suspend them once, and if caught doing it again THEN permban. Usually ones first offense isn't their last i know, but i still think a permanent ban is too harsh, especially considering the other things shitheads do that only result in warnings or short suspensions. This server needs a little love. How many regular players have been permanently banned to this point? It would be interesting to know.

Yes i read the thread on why 2boxing results in permban, but if you're going to permban for this, permban for everything. Training, Nuking through walls, Exploiting Pathing, maybe we can get the population down to 30.

[Hovis]

I understand what you're saying, you're a hardcore rule follower and have never broken a rule or law in your life.

Fair enough.

But if someone does get caught speeding, or smoking a joint, are they sent for capital punishment? No, they're very rarely even sent to jail for such minor offenses.

Why not give people the benefit of the doubt and suspend them once, and if caught doing it again THEN permban. Usually ones first offense isn't their last i know, but i still think a permanent ban is too harsh, especially considering the other things shitheads do that only result in warnings or short suspensions. This server needs a little love. How many regular players have been permanently banned to this point? It would be interesting to know.

Yes i read the thread on why 2boxing results in permban, but if you're going to permban for this, permban for everything. Training, Nuking through walls, Exploiting Pathing, maybe we can get the population down to 30.

well said sir

[CallnOutTheNubs]

I understand what you're saying, you're a hardcore rule follower and have never broken a rule or law in your life.

Fair enough.

But if someone does get caught speeding, or smoking a joint, are they sent for capital punishment? No, they're very rarely even sent to jail for such minor offenses.

Why not give people the benefit of the doubt and suspend them once, and if caught doing it again THEN permban. Usually ones first offense isn't their last i know, but i still think a permanent ban is too harsh, especially considering the other things shitheads do that only result in warnings or short suspensions. This server needs a little love. How many regular players have been permanently banned to this point? It would be interesting to know.

Yes i read the thread on why 2boxing results in permban, but if you're going to permban for this, permban for everything. Training, Nuking through walls, Exploiting Pathing, maybe we can get the population down to 30.

Its not hard to understand you lil dick man
If you wanna 2box go elsewhere or your eating a perma ban got it you clueless fuck

[Cast v27.5]

I understand what you're saying, you're a hardcore rule follower and have never broken a rule or law in your life.

Fair enough.

But if someone does get caught speeding, or smoking a joint, are they sent for capital punishment? No, they're very rarely even sent to jail for such minor offenses.

Why not give people the benefit of the doubt and suspend them once, and if caught doing it again THEN permban. Usually ones first offense isn't their last i know, but i still think a permanent ban is too harsh, especially considering the other things shitheads do that only result in warnings or short suspensions. This server needs a little love. How many regular players have been permanently banned to this point? It would be interesting to know.

Yes i read the thread on why 2boxing results in permban, but if you're going to permban for this, permban for everything. Training, Nuking through walls, Exploiting Pathing, maybe we can get the population down to 30.

Nice job attacking strawmen.

Quote above goes to show that our community is ripe with under educated simpletons. These people should be sought out and muzzled on the forums because ideas and opionion listed above is just flat out hard to read because of its stupidity. Learn to create an accurate analogy and not strawmen syndrome or gtfo

[prince 7th edition]

did not read thread other than skimming page 8


i am here to make sure no 1 with any sort of decision making ability is taking harrison's opinions into account for server he does not play and has said verbatim that he wants to crash and burn

#partyppl #voiceofreason #needpl

[Haul]

I understand what you're saying, you're a hardcore rule follower and have never broken a rule or law in your life.

Fair enough.

But if someone does get caught speeding, or smoking a joint, are they sent for capital punishment? No, they're very rarely even sent to jail for such minor offenses.

Why not give people the benefit of the doubt and suspend them once, and if caught doing it again THEN permban. Usually ones first offense isn't their last i know, but i still think a permanent ban is too harsh, especially considering the other things shitheads do that only result in warnings or short suspensions. This server needs a little love. How many regular players have been permanently banned to this point? It would be interesting to know.

Yes i read the thread on why 2boxing results in permban, but if you're going to permban for this, permban for everything. Training, Nuking through walls, Exploiting Pathing, maybe we can get the population down to 30.

+1 f u you cast and callinoutnoobs you guys are homo rofl

[Nirgon]

did not read thread other than skimming page 8

How many Holo would get unbanned for this? Oh, yeah.

All points considered, I'm going to stick with my previous stance and encourage the devs to do the same. That point being..

http://i43.tinypic.com/2roqrtw.gif

[Nirgon]

no. that's not what it's about. I ban people for boxing because it's against the rules for them to box.

I don't like banning for boxing. I feel it is good for the server because of the following:

Some people who box....

...RMT
...hack
...cheat in other ways.

it ultimately ruins things for the average player. But the rule is nilbog and rogeans. so i uphold it.

[Dullah]

Some people that jaywalk are also serial killers. Some people that speed also become pedophiles.

Definitely give all jaywalkers and traffic violators mandatory 25 to life.

[Tippett]

everyone wants bans for boxers... accept you.....

http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af141/sweeneae/4chan/1250188814529.jpg