Idea to stop all the fighting

[Asedo]

Just a crazy idea to stop the fighting on the blue server. Why not have PoF, PoS, PoH, and VP be instants. For the instants each guild that is able to handle an area would get 1 instance per zone a week. That way the smaller guilds would stand a chance at gods also. All dragons would be FFA. Now on server crashes where it is a full pop those are all FFA. I personally think this would make Amenlinda's life easier. Instead of listening to everyone fight then having to pick a side. I think this should be strongly considered i don't see how it couldn't benefit everyone. Good hunting to all.

[Visual]

instanced

[Yanomamo]

INSTANTLY

[Autotune]

no-no, i want instant loot bro.

Let's form more guilds so we get more instants

[fischsemmel]

Just a crazy idea to stop the fighting on the blue server. Why not have PoF, PoS, PoH, and VP be instants. For the instants each guild that is able to handle an area would get 1 instance per zone a week. That way the smaller guilds would stand a chance at gods also. All dragons would be FFA. Now on server crashes where it is a full pop those are all FFA. I personally think this would make Amenlinda's life easier. Instead of listening to everyone fight then having to pick a side. I think this should be strongly considered i don't see how it couldn't benefit everyone. Good hunting to all.

Instances are an absolutely freaking horrible idea.

[Grozmok]

instanced

This

[Flunklesnarkin]

NOT CLASSIC!!!


Instancing is one idea i've seen games use


another is items that trigger raid monsters / events... these items are usually rare / require lengthy quests to obtain


not that i'd expect anything like that to be implemented on P99 lol

[Hmotzart]

IMO not everyone deserves to see endgame content in a game. If you cant make it to the boss in your guild. Might think about helping your guild get better so you can get there or go play a bottlefed game where anyone with 2iq and 1 finger can kill the last boss in the game. goodbye and goodluck

[Danyelle]

BUT ISN'T CLASSIC BRO! Why would anyone want anything at all that isn't Classic?

[Autotune]

BUT ISN'T CLASSIC BRO! Why would anyone want anything at all that isn't Classic?

sarcasm?

[Flash]

IMO not everyone deserves to see endgame content in a game. If you cant make it to the boss in your guild. Might think about helping your guild get better so you can get there or go play a bottlefed game where anyone with 2iq and 1 finger can kill the last boss in the game. goodbye and goodluck

I'm pretty sure EQ classic wasn't designed to be hardcore difficult either.

[Grozmok]

Amenlinda

Amen

[Danyelle]

sarcasm?

You should know me well enough by now to answer that, Stealin :P

[sbvera13]

No instances. That's one of the reasons lots of us play here instead of WoW in the first place.

[Leokaiser]

Instances are rather contrary to the overall design of EQ which puts the MMO part before the RPG part - instances make sense from a gameplay standpoint but not so much for that 'all players in one world' feel.

As an aside though:

IMO not everyone deserves to see endgame content in a game. If you cant make it to the boss in your guild. Might think about helping your guild get better so you can get there or go play a bottlefed game where anyone with 2iq and 1 finger can kill the last boss in the game. goodbye and goodluck

This makes me scratch my head. Did you kill C'thun or Kil'Jaden during their relevant eras? Do you think even average players managed to do?

Instancing has nothing to do with difficulty, except in cases where the actual content is easy and the only challenge revolves around there not being enough of it for everyone. You are free to like either design, but there is no need to insult others due to their preference.

[Grozmok]

Instances are rather contrary to the overall design of EQ which puts the MMO part before the RPG part - instances make sense from a gameplay standpoint but not so much for that 'all players in one world' feel.

Uh, until this?:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c8/EverQuest_-_Lost_Dungeons_of_Norrath_Coverart.png

The whole expansion was a series of instances.

[Leokaiser]

I thought it would be taken as read that I mean 'classic' EQ on these forums ;)

Edit: Expanding on this - It seems many of the features that came in after Velious which people rail most strongly against are those which detract from the aforementioned 'one huge world' feeling and those which cut out some social interaction, such as Nexus/PoK for automated transport instant, Bazzar for automated selling. One could argue that LDoN took that to another level.

[Danyelle]

KAIRA

Quit confusing Groz and let's go make a group!

[Grozmok]

I thought it would be taken as read that I mean 'classic' EQ on these forums ;)

Classic is a player assigned term, when you reference the game you have to be more specific IMO.

[quido]

This sounds really stupid.

[Maultriss]

I don't want instances and I like competition. I think better sportsmanship all around would be a wind of good change on this server though. It all starts with me right? I for sure felt myself falling into the hate spiral and I can't handle the vitriol anymore from any side. Good sportsmanship on all sides could transform this server into something even better.

I learned it in like 3rd grade soccer, shake the hand of your competitor after a game regardless of how it went. You all end up at Dairy Queen with ice cream cones after anyway. I plan on living by what I learned a long time ago.

Instances would probably make me quit. Instances on live were a little different because the challenge came from trying targets that were ridiculously hard. The thrill was in the conquering of a new harder boss, not the race and chase. Here, not so much. Sure, there is thrill in killing a new mob but not the challenge of some of the raid targets in instances on live. Instances here would be mind numbingly boring. The fighting can be solved by the hundereds of adults that play here, me included.

[Psionide]

This idea is even better than the jump to conclusions mat.....

[Grozmok]

This is so outside the scope of the p99 team that this thread must be for shits-n-giggles?

[Hmotzart]

If you can not beat them ... Join them. If you do not want to join them... Form a alliance with them. If you do not want to do either. Wait until they move on and it is your turn to raid that boss. It will happen just like it happened on live with Classic AKA PREsony.

[Metallikus]

no to instances.
yes to better sportsmanship.

[Danyelle]

So what you're saying is.... if my guild were to compete with a top guild..and they were to kick my ass, that they would still take me out for Ice Cream?

I like this idea but let's not go to Dairy Queen that's the McDonalds of the frozen treats world. We play Everquest dammit we should get better quality frozen treats!

[Joroz]

Add population caps to zones. Would make it so guilds would have to pick and choose targets and work around each other instead of trying to steam roll each other target after target.

[Maultriss]

I grew up in the sticks, we had dairy queen and if you didn't like it, we had McDonalds. 1970's Shamrock Shakes in orange, yellow, and brown logo cups that leaked almost instantly were the shit.

[Kika Maslyaka]

Firs of all, difficulty of a target is not related to the instancing in any way. You can have a guild drama over a target which is completely trivial to kill, and on other hand, you have an instanced encounter of INSANE difficulty, which only 1% of the guilds will be able to kill, regardless of how many free attempts they get at the target in question.
In other words, one has nothing to do with the other

Second, here is my thoughts on Instancing:

Pros:
-removes raid drama
-removes play time constraints
-removes need to race to the mob, since its always be available
-guarantees target availability on EVERY spawn spawn cycle
-allows guild to gear up MUCH faster

Cons:
-ruins the MMO world immersion
-removes guild competition
-removes the need of guild cooperation and values of sharing (in other words promotes anti-social behavior)
-caters to LARGER guilds, in case of truly difficult encounters (if target would be non instanced, then number of smaller guilds could combine powers to kill it, but guild instancing removes this option)
-greatly increase loot flow into the economy (even if loot is no drop, instancing means that many players get fully raid geared MUCH faster, since each guild automatically gets their own 100% guaranteed raid share), and contributes to player completing content faster, and running out of things to do

[username1337]

IMO not everyone deserves to see endgame content in a game. If you cant make it to the boss in your guild. Might think about helping your guild get better so you can get there or go play a bottlefed game where anyone with 2iq and 1 finger can kill the last boss in the game. goodbye and goodluck

Ever play a game with instance raids? Not all of them are as trivial as you may believe.

Competition in classic EQ and P1999 is about who plays the longest and who has the best batphone organization. The raid targets themselves are trivial to defeat.

[Huddaan]

This idea is even better than the jump to conclusions mat.....

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l99jlz7PL21qzrudv.jpg

I disagree

[Flunklesnarkin]

Ever play a game with instance raids? Not all of them are as trivial as you may believe.

Competition in classic EQ and P1999 is about who plays the longest and who has the best batphone organization. The raid targets themselves are trivial to defeat.

[Ikonoclastia]

Fighting has value, fun to read while I'm medding.

[Danyelle]

Everquest without fighting is like America without fat people. It's a dream we will never achieve and yet it's fun to watch while bored.

[Hmotzart]

Yes I have.. 9790 achievement points in wow.. Items are so easily dropped by 600 raids on the same boss each day by different guilds so that the same item can drop for many people all day long.. LAME .....Now all instance bosses are set to stupid retard easy mode.. They cram 25 people into a 10man difficulty instance and call it a raid. No one does anything worthwhile anymore since it can all be done stupid easy mode.. IMO I cherish items more when there so slow to come by on a server that you may be the only one to have it for a few months before someone gets the item to drop again for them.
I know there are different settings for each instance these days. But if you go research and look at the #s only like .05% are raiding on the harder difficulty settings. The game is ruined and the items feel pointless..

Here in p99 the items feel like there worth something not just a Epic walk to my epic bank account to epically walk to the epic auction house and buy my EPIC...


THOSE ARE NOT EPICS!

[Danyelle]

Yes I have.. 9790 achievement points in wow.. Items are so easily dropped by 600 raids on the same boss each day by different guilds so that the same item can drop for many people all day long.. LAME .....Now all instance bosses are set to stupid retard easy mode.. They cram 25 people into a 10man difficulty instance and call it a raid. No one does anything worthwhile anymore since it can all be done stupid easy mode.. IMO I cherish items more when there so slow to come by on a server that you may be the only one to have it for a few months before someone gets the item to drop again for them.
I know there are different settings for each instance these days. But if you go research and look at the #s only like .05% are raiding on the harder difficulty settings. The game is ruined and the items feel pointless..

Here in p99 the items feel like there worth something not just a Epic walk to my epic bank account to epically walk to the epic auction house and buy my EPIC...


THOSE ARE NOT EPICS!

Not even Modern Everquest (AKA Babby's First EQ) is this easy yet....

Well at least it wasn't when i quit in 2008.

[Kika Maslyaka]

Vanila WoW raid on Molten Core was eq1 style hardcore, but a lot more entertaining. It was 40-man raid, and it required top notch performance from your guild.
Of course as time went on, and number of players sky rocketed from 500k to 2miln+, the "Casuals" began to whine that they never gonna see any cool raids, so with each next expansion difficulty kept going down. First the raids were reduced to 25-man, then to 10, and you can kill Lich King with 1 group...
Another stupid decision on Bliz part, was that solo-available gear can easily match raid gear from previous tiers. Yes, of course the solo-gear should get better in next level range, but not THAT much better that it easily matches gear that people fought hard for in 1-group instances and especially raids.
Today all the 1-group instances from 20 to 70 are DEAD. No one in their right mind will go to lev 20-40 instances, when they can solo-grind for 1-2 hours, move 1 zone up, and get equal quality loot from common trash. And when in WOTL the casual zones went up to lev 80, you could get T1-T3 + quality gear from common trash in Northrend.

What can I say - to corporations, business comes first. They don't care about your "immersion" and "achievements"; they care about casual solo grinders who generate income.

[Hmotzart]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

All about the $ I totally agree.. This is why I come to get my REAL pve fix from EQ.
So for the next person to bring up instancing I say this to you..

The next time you log into everquest look through the server listings.

YOU BELONG IN THE EZSERVER go there NAO!

[Autotune]

Vanila WoW raid on Molten Core was eq1 style hardcore, but a lot more entertaining. It was 40-man raid, and it required top notch performance from your guild.
Of course as time went on, and number of players sky rocketed from 500k to 2miln+, the "Casuals" began to whine that they never gonna see any cool raids, so with each next expansion difficulty kept going down. First the raids were reduced to 25-man, then to 10, and you can kill Lich King with 1 group...
Another stupid decision on Bliz part, was that solo-available gear can easily match raid gear from previous tiers. Yes, of course the solo-gear should get better in next level range, but not THAT much better that it easily matches gear that people fought hard for in 1-group instances and especially raids.
Today all the 1-group instances from 20 to 70 are DEAD. No one in their right mind will go to lev 20-40 instances, when they can solo-grind for 1-2 hours, move 1 zone up, and get equal quality loot from common trash. And when in WOTL the casual zones went up to lev 80, you could get T1-T3 + quality gear from common trash in Northrend.

What can I say - to corporations, business comes first. They don't care about your "immersion" and "achievements"; they care about casual solo grinders who generate income.

most fun i had on any mmorpg was raiding the 40man instances in WoW.

MC, BWL, Ony, AQ40 (even tho i hated it at the time) and Naxx were all A+

It's the only time I ever felt like I was actually raiding something.

AV 40 vs 40 original week long battles was the most epic PvPing I have ever seen in an MMO as well. Even tho it heavily favored the horde with their 50 NPCs that you had to wage war thru, it was definitely satisfying to win an AV match.

Cross-realm bullshit and 25/15/10man shit killed WoW for me.

[Leokaiser]

THOSE ARE NOT EPICS!

On my server, there were 4 guilds in Naxx40 and only 2 of them downed C'thun. There was a similar amount in Sunwell. Many items gained in these instances, and several in lower tier content, were indeed epic in a manner beyond the colour of their name. I highly doubt there were many servers where Atiesh was a common sight.

The fact that we can draw a stark comparision between the rarity of items like Might of Menethil and Ramaladni's Blade of Cunning in the same game only serves to highlight the fact that instancing has nothing to do with it.

Once again, you are free to dislike instancing as a design decision, but there is no need to belittle those who do not.

EZ Server indeed :rolleyes:

[Danyelle]

Kaira you have saddened me today... Left me lonely and heart broken </3

[Flunklesnarkin]

My Idea to stop all the fighting



http://grandmamaswisdom.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/pull_the_plug1.jpg

[Dullah]

You guys should consider joining us on red. No more pleading with GMs. Guild up and fight it out. Fun times.

[baub]

AV 40 vs 40 original week long battles was the most epic PvPing I have ever seen in an MMO as well. Even tho it heavily favored the horde with their 50 NPCs that you had to wage war thru, it was definitely satisfying to win an AV match.

bro you just wall jump 2 rogues and a warlock into the back of horde's base and summon everyone. meanwhile alliance has a fucking bridge as the only point of entry

I 100% played ally during vanilla and even I could see we were heavily favored on that map!

good times

[Zigfreed]

Yeah uhh no. I mean like no fucking way like no.

[Scavrefamn]

WoW sucks.

Anyway, no instancing until PoP/LDoN ... I.e. instancing will never be here. thankfully.

[danceparty]

after reading OP and all of the replies, i have decided to implement this suggestion. all planes and vp are now instanced. have a nice day.

[Messianic]

You guys should consider joining us on red. No more pleading with GMs. Guild up and fight it out. Fun times.

All 120 of you?

[Thana8088]

If I had to guess, I'd say instancing was put in because customers were bitching and cancelling subscriptions. P99 doesn't have subscriptions, P99 doesn't care if you quit and go somewhere else. Also, I think most of the P99 raiding population ENJOYS smashing opposing-guild face. So yeah, no real motivation for instancing.

Respectful competition would be ideal; but what we have here is "win at all costs" competition.

[Kika Maslyaka]

It's funny that all the people saying that this wouldn't be classic are the only people that think having camped loot for hours upon hours from absolutely random drop chances for most every item, would rather continue to sit on their asses and waste more time on such a slowly paced game.

Raiding is no where near like it was on live, because there are no maintenance days. The folks here at P99 think they're making changes that will help the situation, but it's never going to change.

Who the fuck cares if more people have access to the HANDFUL of raid targets and zones around? Only the people who actually enjoy the poopsocking, harassing GMs about the rules, complaining and bitching, and calling contested Everquest mobs in zones like VP or the Planes, 'competition'.

"Oh my god, you mean if shit was instanced, instead of spending 100 hours camping Fear for a set of xyz, they'll be spending 100 hours camping it still?!!!!"

Changing the zones to instances (sans the PvP Server), doesn't change the loot drop chances. The only reason they would increase is due to no system of lockouts, which Everquest most definitely has. And for anyone who wants to argue that you could have six different raids going on per every lockout timer, which would mean up to 6x the loot being dropped, people would be locked to their instance. Have it be lockout upon entry, and first mob killed. Really would be a simple system to prevent loot sales from the planes. If you entered any Plane you had an automatic 3 hour lock to that instance, if you killed a mob, even a trash mob, you'd be locked to that instance for the remainder of the lockout. If the lockout was 3 days, you could do it every three days. If someone really wanted to sit around and buy loot from the planes, they'd have a whopping two chances to do it every six hours, and they'd have to pray that the two raids during that six hours are spaced apart and not going on at the same time. Keep the non-requirement zones contested, Vox, Naggy, Kunark Dragons sans VP, Venril, etc. That's literally the only 'competition' Blue can speak of. I find it absolutely hilarious that people on a non-pvp server are complaining about other people getting primarily no-drop loot, on a server where it matters the least. "OH MAN DID YOU SEE THAT JOE'S GUILD GOT ALL THAT GOOD GEAR LAST NIGHT? THEY'LL BE ABLE TO KILL 1% CLOSER TO THE RATE THAT WE DO NOW! RUH-ROH!!!" Seriously, get over yourselves.

It's too bad it couldn't be done here, it certainly never will be. The only thing that will help Kunark and Planes raid availability is going to be Velious, even then people will still be raiding the Planes and Kunark. Don't expect anything other than what happens day in and day out.

While I agree with your logic, and conclusions (specially when applied to this ERA of EQ where raid targets are extremely limited and only reserved for the elite), the instancing brings ONE but painful problem with it: its permanently reduces the feeling of a large MMO world.

Guilds will never interact with each other (in a good way I mean), there are no pick up raids, no guild alliances, and regardless of how many people play on the server, you become permanently locked within your guild-group, and never see anyone outside of it.

A good friend of mine recently quit playing WoW, despite being greatest fan just a few years back. His reason was: "12 million people, and NO ONE to group with". He was with his guild from day 1. When they were doing 40-man Molten Core, their guild was 70+ people strong. When Blizz reduced raids size to 25, the guild split in half, then split again. It didn't happened with just them - it happened to all the guilds. A year ago, when my friend would log in, he couldn't even gather enough guild-mates for 1-group dungeon.

Of course, not everything needs to be instanced, you can still have normal solo and 1-group areas to be open as normal, but instancing raids is the first step in the direction where everything slowly becomes instanced.
First it will be done to accommodate top raids, then all raids, then 1-group named, etc.

While I agree that current raid scene is too crowded for most players to enjoy it, instancing is not a true solution to this.
EQ simply doesn't have sufficient raid targets to go around. This is of course inherited problem by design. And this unfortunately cannot be addressed within the scope of this project.

[Leokaiser]

Instances were definately the adopted solution to the 'few vs the many' problem in endgame EQ, but I think it's a bit of a shallow view to think it's was all about the money. For the majority, MMOs are just games rather than virtual realities where they lead a second life (apart from... well, you know), and thus delivering 'fun' is of paramount importance.

In the days preceeding the release of WoW, EQ was shifting it's focus more and more to the endgame - that was where the 'fun' was percieved to be at by those who played most. However, that fun was in limited supply, and for every few guilds who enjoyed competing, there were more who suffered from the cockblocks this created.

Part of the problem with the p99 endgame is that, as Thana hints at, most people here belonged to the 'few' - too many people wanting to compete, and removing that competition would not fix that.

[arsenalpow]

The raid scene is pretty much a joke. Let's go through the shenanigans that was Hate on Saturday night.

BDA and VD are first on the scene and VD promptly kills everyone at the entrance with a train. Both guilds rebuild and punch a hole to the bottom of the ramp. TMO shows up. All 3 guilds move to the ramp. TMO drops all of inny's roo + inny on all 3 raid forces using necros/monks/eyes. Inny falls over. Every non FD class dies. TMO gets the loot because they had FTE.

That's basically a microcosm of any raid where there's direct competition. Every single time in fear/hate/trak/VS/naggy/Vox it ends up like this.

Confirmed mad, etc etc. I just wish these adults could act like adults instead of using the anonymity of the Internet to live out their pixelated shitbag role playing fantasies.

[Metallikus]

The raid scene is pretty much a joke. Let's go through the shenanigans that was Hate on Saturday night.

BDA and VD are first on the scene and VD promptly kills everyone at the entrance with a train. Both guilds rebuild and punch a hole to the bottom of the ramp. TMO shows up. All 3 guilds move to the ramp. TMO drops all of inny's roo + inny on all 3 raid forces using necros/monks/eyes. Inny falls over. Every non FD class dies. TMO gets the loot because they had FTE.

That's basically a microcosm of any raid where there's direct competition. Every single time in fear/hate/trak/VS/naggy/Vox it ends up like this.

Confirmed mad, etc etc. I just wish these adults could act like adults instead of using the anonymity of the Internet to live out their pixelated shitbag role playing fantasies.

Didn't TMO just server a week suspension for training Inny + mobs onto a raid? Amelinda secretly lifted the suspension early, so I guess you can say she condones this behavior.

Train everything in zone onto other raids, have FTE on the raid mob, loot and scoot - that's what the GMs promote.

[quido]

QQ

[Thana8088]

QQ

Thank you for your valuable contribution.

[arsenalpow]

Didn't TMO just server a week suspension for training Inny + mobs onto a raid? Amelinda secretly lifted the suspension early, so I guess you can say she condones this behavior.

Train everything in zone onto other raids, have FTE on the raid mob, loot and scoot - that's what the GMs promote.

It's not up to Amelinda to babysit the playerbase anytime there's a boss fight. Maybe TMO and VD could hold themselves to a higher standard voluntarily. I know, that's a ludicrous concept, adults acting like adults. It's about the mentality of a guild and it's leadership. I wonder how many times Amelinda has had to intervene for issues concerning BDA? (but BDA doesn't kill anything lolz) The answer is none, BDA's leadership is of the mind that we won't be participating in the train wars and other shady practices. We'll do it our way, the loot be damned. At least I'll be able to sleep at night.

[Autotune]

The raid scene is pretty much a joke. Let's go through the shenanigans that was Hate on Saturday night.

BDA and VD are first on the scene and VD promptly kills everyone at the entrance with a train. Both guilds rebuild and punch a hole to the bottom of the ramp. TMO shows up. All 3 guilds move to the ramp. TMO drops all of inny's roo + inny on all 3 raid forces using necros/monks/eyes. Inny falls over. Every non FD class dies. TMO gets the loot because they had FTE.

That's basically a microcosm of any raid where there's direct competition. Every single time in fear/hate/trak/VS/naggy/Vox it ends up like this.

Confirmed mad, etc etc. I just wish these adults could act like adults instead of using the anonymity of the Internet to live out their pixelated shitbag role playing fantasies.

It doesn't always end like this. However, it often happens a great deal when another guild thinks they have FTE or tries to KS a raid mob. IF the other guild took the time to get away from a pull/train and not engage a mob that isn't on their pull, they wouldn't die.

I was at Hate for that Inny, You guys had plenty of time to move when Inny was coming down the ramp and instead, you all stood and most engaged. When your own guild members engage a mob that is not your own guilds, you get added to social aggro, then your group members/guild members spread the aggro via bards/buffs/so-on.

The time on Inny that got us suspended, VD/IB tried to KS Inny and got added via social. They effectively trained themselves. BDA effectively did the exact same thing by jumping the gun.

Edit: bro you just wall jump 2 rogues and a warlock into the back of horde's base and summon everyone. meanwhile alliance has a fucking bridge as the only point of entry

I 100% played ally during vanilla and even I could see we were heavily favored on that map!

good times

Yeah, we were able to do this a few times on our server before the horde realized the strategy. On Thunderhorn, we were probably only able to do it a few times. Even after the battlegroups were formed, you could do it against the teams that didn't know about it, until they learned.

That village with 50npcs > The bridge you could just rush across.

I think recently druids/shamans got some knockbacks that were fun for the bridge tho lol.

[quido]

Catterine, let's be friends. I know you're mean to me because you have a crush on me.

[arsenalpow]

It doesn't always end like this. However, it often happens a great deal when another guild thinks they have FTE or tries to KS a raid mob. IF the other guild took the time to get away from a pull/train and not engage a mob that isn't on their pull, they wouldn't die.

I was at Hate for that Inny, You guys had plenty of time to move when Inny was coming down the ramp and instead, you all stood and most engaged. When your own guild members engage a mob that is not your own guilds, you get added to social aggro, then your group members/guild members spread the aggro via bards/buffs/so-on.

The time on Inny that got us suspended, VD/IB tried to KS Inny and got added via social. They effectively trained themselves. BDA effectively did the exact same thing by jumping the gun.

Right. You were the last guild there, you trained (sorry PULLED) 30 mobs and inny on everyone. Of course TMO was entitled to that kill right?

I'm not salty I'm just shocked about the state of the endgame. Y'all have been at this bullshit for so long that you're desensitized. I'll let you know when it doesn't seem crazy to me anymore.

[Grozmok]

It's funny that all the people saying that this wouldn't be classic are the only people that think having camped loot for hours upon hours from absolutely random drop chances for most every item, would rather continue to sit on their asses and waste more time on such a slowly paced game.

Raiding is no where near like it was on live, because there are no maintenance days. The folks here at P99 think they're making changes that will help the situation, but it's never going to change.

Who the fuck cares if more people have access to the HANDFUL of raid targets and zones around? Only the people who actually enjoy the poopsocking, harassing GMs about the rules, complaining and bitching, and calling contested Everquest mobs in zones like VP or the Planes, 'competition'.

"Oh my god, you mean if shit was instanced, instead of spending 100 hours camping Fear for a set of xyz, they'll be spending 100 hours camping it still?!!!!"

Changing the zones to instances (sans the PvP Server), doesn't change the loot drop chances. The only reason they would increase is due to no system of lockouts, which Everquest most definitely has. And for anyone who wants to argue that you could have six different raids going on per every lockout timer, which would mean up to 6x the loot being dropped, people would be locked to their instance. Have it be lockout upon entry, and first mob killed. Really would be a simple system to prevent loot sales from the planes. If you entered any Plane you had an automatic 3 hour lock to that instance, if you killed a mob, even a trash mob, you'd be locked to that instance for the remainder of the lockout. If the lockout was 3 days, you could do it every three days. If someone really wanted to sit around and buy loot from the planes, they'd have a whopping two chances to do it every six hours, and they'd have to pray that the two raids during that six hours are spaced apart and not going on at the same time. Keep the non-requirement zones contested, Vox, Naggy, Kunark Dragons sans VP, Venril, etc. That's literally the only 'competition' Blue can speak of. I find it absolutely hilarious that people on a non-pvp server are complaining about other people getting primarily no-drop loot, on a server where it matters the least. "OH MAN DID YOU SEE THAT JOE'S GUILD GOT ALL THAT GOOD GEAR LAST NIGHT? THEY'LL BE ABLE TO KILL 1% CLOSER TO THE RATE THAT WE DO NOW! RUH-ROH!!!" Seriously, get over yourselves.

It's too bad it couldn't be done here, it certainly never will be. The only thing that will help Kunark and Planes raid availability is going to be Velious, even then people will still be raiding the Planes and Kunark. Don't expect anything other than what happens day in and day out.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/nholmes/prelude/92d538a1.gif

I agree, the zones not refreshing due to lack of server down time isn't the same as it was on live and something should be done about it.

However, instances are not the answer.

[Autotune]

Right. You were the last guild there, you trained (sorry PULLED) 30 mobs and inny on everyone. Of course TMO was entitled to that kill right?

I'm not salty I'm just shocked about the state of the endgame. Y'all have been at this bullshit for so long that you're desensitized. I'll let you know when it doesn't seem crazy to me anymore.

it wouldn't have been pulled on you if you didn't attack or move.

I'm saying, if you're standing in the street trying to catch a bus, you probably want to get out of the way of the bus that isn't stopping for you.

Yes we were the last guild there. When we showed up, both BDA/VD had already wiped or were CRing at the entrance. We started getting pulled on by VD at the entrance and were having to kill some of their "dropped" mobs. So we moved out, you also moved out to the bottom of the ramp. A VD rogue set off Inny's DT and it appeared VD wasn't pulling, so we did. After the initial pull when inny was still on the top of the ramp, we made sure to tag him again with other members, he got to the bottom of the ramp and TMO and BDA both attacked inny. Zeelot then got DT'd and social aggro split to people who had less aggro than him.

IF you were on the aggro, you got trained because of your or your guild members choices. You could have simply moved and let the pulling guild handle their pull/mob. You instead helped kill Inny and even helped break some mezzes from our enchanters.

So while we showed up last, it's not like you had just cleared all of hate and was standing out side his room and we brought mobs from the other side to train on you while we pulled inny away from you. Paint yourselves the victim as if you couldn't have handled things differently if you want.

[Metallikus]

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=14667

"Q: What if our raid is disrupted? What if our raid interferes with another raid?
A: Any non-consensual disturbance or meddling from a raid which leads to another raid being disrupted will result in very harsh punishments. Anyone involved in disruptions will be banned for 1 week with possible action against their guild's leadership. Second offenses will be 2 weeks. Further offenses will be permanent. It is the responsibility of the raid leaders to control their members. We strongly suggest that you avoid other raids while in a zone."


The plain and simple fact is your raid was disrupted non-consensually by TMO when they trained 30 mobs thru your camp in order to get FTE on Inny.

TMO has gotten away with so many raid disruptions that it is now standard operating procedure.

[Autotune]

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=14667

"Q: What if our raid is disrupted? What if our raid interferes with another raid?
A: Any non-consensual disturbance or meddling from a raid which leads to another raid being disrupted will result in very harsh punishments. Anyone involved in disruptions will be banned for 1 week with possible action against their guild's leadership. Second offenses will be 2 weeks. Further offenses will be permanent. It is the responsibility of the raid leaders to control their members. We strongly suggest that you avoid other raids while in a zone."


The plain and simple fact is your raid was disrupted non-consensually by TMO when they trained 30 mobs thru your camp in order to get FTE on Inny.

TMO has gotten away with so many raid disruptions that it is now standard operating procedure.

Aye, it's now standard practice to just run in the way and die to things instead of preserving ones own health.

Instead of moving when you've been beaten, you should run and get in the way and become collateral damage. +10 points if you get fraps of it and another 100+ dkp if you can manage to get the opposing guild raid suspended with it.

[Thana8088]

Catterine, let's be friends. I know you're mean to me because you have a crush on me.

Jerkemy has seen through my thinly-veiled fascade. :o

[Metallikus]

Why would you steamroll over BDA and wipe them for Inny when you are already getting self proclaimed two trakanons, two VSs, 12 VP dragons, CT, ect this day? Selfish clowns with nothing better to do than grief a guild that is competing fairly for a god kill?

[arsenalpow]

I think a more accurate comparison is that BDA/VD/TMO were in a parade proceeding down mainstreet, then TMO decided that they were more important and diverted traffic onto the parade route because it suited them. Fuck everybody else. Just admit you're inconsiderate, no need to sugarcoat it. It's all about the pixels baby.

[Autotune]

I think a more accurate comparison is that BDA/VD/TMO were in a parade proceeding down mainstreet, then TMO decided that they were more important and diverted traffic onto the parade route because it suited them. Fuck everybody else. Just admit you're inconsiderate, no need to sugarcoat it. It's all about the pixels baby.

we didn't divert the traffic, you (your guild) did.

[Autotune]

Why would you steamroll over BDA and wipe them for Inny when you are already getting self proclaimed two trakanons, two VSs, 12 VP dragons, CT, ect this day? Selfish clowns with nothing better to do than grief a guild that is competing fairly for a god kill?

We only pulled it because we thought VD was. There is your answer.

[Metallikus]

We only pulled it because we thought VD was. There is your answer.

your guild wasn't in position

you panicked because you thought VD was going to pull, so you tagged it and trained BDA with everything in the room?

[arsenalpow]

You could have engaged at the top of the ramp, or in his room, yet you chose the bottom of the ramp where two other guilds were sitting. All 3 guilds were competing for same mob yet you decided to make camp on top of everyone.

If I'm sitting at a table with Sanluen, coldblooded, and Starie (it's a double date!) and you walk up with Jeremy and say "hey we're bringing a group to sit here, you should move" how is that kosher?

Right now the status quo is train the world, get FTE with pets and eyes, everyone else be damned, just get the fuck out of our way. This is acceptable because it's the letter of the law, but every raiding guild is miserable under this ruleset. I know you can't enjoy this shitstorm. You stepped up and found a ragefire solution, let's work on better rules of engagement because this is retarded.

[falkun]

Careful arsenal, rotation threads get moved to RNF. Cold's already tried that route.

[Autotune]

your guild wasn't in position

you panicked because you thought VD was going to pull, so you tagged it and trained BDA with everything in the room?

we were in position. We were set up just outside of Church away from BDA.

Bda was at the very bottom of the ramp.

VD was at the entrance.

VD rogue Kitai set off a DT, Inny was unaggrod, so we pulled it towards our camp. At the top of the ramp, we had people in tmo to tag Inny when he was otw down so he didn't just DT zeelot and become free. At the bottom of the ramp, BDA/TMO people tagged inny again. Zeelot gets DT'd and multiple people gain aggro on multiple mobs.

If bda hadn't engaged inny, the mobs would have all come toward church to our camp. Because they engaged, we had to try and kill/cc the mobs over them. Even when our enchanters mezzed, some still got broken due to pets/other nonsense.

Even after inny was dead, a bda monk still decided to keep standing with his aggro and training people as they logged back in. His people and TMOs.

I suppose we should petition him tho, I mean, that is the VD way amirite? Petition anything that looks to be damning on camera, even if it's not technically in that monks power to know when people are and are not logging in, he should be held responsible for his trains.

You could have engaged at the top of the ramp, or in his room, yet you chose the bottom of the ramp where two other guilds were sitting. All 3 guilds were competing for same mob yet you decided to make camp on top of everyone.

If I'm sitting at a table with Sanluen, coldblooded, and Starie (it's a double date!) and you walk up with Jeremy and say "hey we're bringing a group to sit here, you should move" how is that kosher?

Right now the status quo is train the world, get FTE with pets and eyes, everyone else be damned, just get the fuck out of our way. This is acceptable because it's the letter of the law, but every raiding guild is miserable under this ruleset. I know you can't enjoy this shitstorm. You stepped up and found a ragefire solution, let's work on better rules of engagement because this is retarded.

We didn't set up camp over you, we had people there to make sure inny and the train stayed on our people. If you hadn't of engaged, you wouldn't of had aggro or the train. Because you did engage, we had to move people over to try and keep our pull from being KS'd and to get a hold on the train.

[Metallikus]

rules for engagement would work if enforced. One raid should not be allowed to train mobs onto another raid. It is clearly written into teh rules that raids should avoid each other in the zone and not disrupt each other. If you were camped at the bottom of the ramp, they should not be able to pull mobs thru yer camp, they should move up the ramp and pull there.

[Grozmok]

Oh snap, more server drama.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/nholmes/prelude/5e080395.gif

[Autotune]

rules for engagement would work if enforced. One raid should not be allowed to train mobs onto another raid. It is clearly written into teh rules that raids should avoid each other in the zone and not disrupt each other. If you were camped at the bottom of the ramp, they should not be able to pull mobs thru yer camp, they should move up the ramp and pull there.

Aye, then stop setting up camp on top of us in Fear pls.

Yet, you don't see us petitioning against you because you do. Instead, we camp the fuck out and get out of the way.

[arsenalpow]

Well I was the monk there and I was clean, so your statements are false. It doesn't matter though, I want to talk about better rules of engagement. Less training, more consideration for other guilds. The guides/GMs don't want to sort out EVERY SINGLE ENCOUNTER. Step up, police yourselves, stop engaging in shitty tactics. Only you can prevent wildfires /SmokeyBear

[Metallikus]

Aye, then stop setting up camp on top of us in Fear pls.

Yet, you don't see us petitioning against you because you do. Instead, we camp the fuck out and get out of the way.

when fear is fully popped, north wall camp is a standard camp to go to because theres very few if more than one mob there. Sometimes we beat TMO there, soemtimes we get beat to the spot. In both cases, neither guild moves very far from each other but we are sitting seperately. And if you do camp out, it's because you are DT cycling us.

[Autotune]

Well I was the monk there and I was clean, so your statements are false. It doesn't matter though, I want to talk about better rules of engagement. Less training, more consideration for other guilds. The guides/GMs don't want to sort out EVERY SINGLE ENCOUNTER. Step up, police yourselves, stop engaging in shitty tactics. Only you can prevent wildfires /SmokeyBear

I watched you train our druid and one of your gnome casters (in a blue dress) and at least one other person by standing up and pulling the spectres onto the corpse and then dropping them.

IF it wasn't you, the fraps would surely look like you did it, as when you stood they would come toward inny corpse and when you flopped they would stop.

So while you think you did nothing wrong, perhaps the eyes of another would see that you aren't so clean. Or perhaps you don't see how perspective gives you different views on the same situation.

[Autotune]

when fear is fully popped, north wall camp is a standard camp to go to because theres very few if more than one mob there. Sometimes we beat TMO there, soemtimes we get beat to the spot. In both cases, neither guild moves very far from each other but we are sitting seperately. And if you do camp out, it's because you are DT cycling us.

we managed to camp out just fine when you pulled draco over us from the west when you were camped on the east side of us at Northwall.

[falkun]

Well I was the monk there and I was clean, so your statements are false. It doesn't matter though, I want to talk about better rules of engagement. Less training, more consideration for other guilds. The guides/GMs don't want to sort out EVERY SINGLE ENCOUNTER. Step up, police yourselves, stop engaging in shitty tactics. Only you can prevent wildfires /SmokeyBear

You can only be as honorable as your competition. If your competition gets the mob with "shitty tactics", then you either need to accept that you did not/will not get the kill (and all that entails), or you will need to employ your own "shitty tactics". I'm sure VD and TMO, and even IB/TR when they were still an active guild, tried getting raid mobs without using "shitty tactics", but competition has forced our collective hands. Kind of like the nuke reduction talks/treaties between Russia and USA, noone is going to come back to reasonable levels while the other still uses "shitty tactics". If you want it to happen, it has to happen as a group. Sadly, guild relations are not at levels that would allow that, at least not yet.

[arsenalpow]

I was FD on the ramp for the entire inny fight, I stood up clean, came down the ramp clean, then locked Inny's corpse while FD for a while. Then TMO had a bunch of people with broken capslock buttons. Is it a bug when an entire guild has all their keyboards break at once?

So, again your wrong. Quit derailing this.

Do you have any thoughts about better rules of engagement for fear/hate?

[Autotune]

I was FD on the ramp for the entire inny fight, I stood up clean, came down the ramp clean, then locked Inny's corpse while FD for a while. Then TMO had a bunch of people with broken capslock buttons. Is it a bug when an entire guild has all their keyboards break at once?

So, again your wrong. Quit derailing this.

Do you have any thoughts about better rules of engagement for fear/hate?

I'm not derailing anything, if it wasn't you that was standing and flopping from BDA, it was another of your monks.

Perhaps you shouldn't claim it.

Either way, you missed the entire point. It was about perspective of a situation from two different sides. You see it as being trained, I see it as you trying to KS a pull (purposely or not). Both things happened, which guild is to blame for what?

Should TMO be punished because you engaged a target that wasn't yours to gain social aggro and a train wiped most of your force?

Should BDA be punished for engaging a target that wasn't from their pull to which they caused themselves to be trained?

And the rules of engagement is FTE lays claim to the mob. The train that comes with it (if there is one) is also that guilds. Placing yourself onto the hate list by engaging another guild's mob is against the rules. Training another guild is against the rules.

If I root an entire train and someone starts using cancel magic to remove the CC and get added to the aggro list and dies, am i responsible for them too? Am I responsible for anyone else's actions that are not wearing my guild tag?

You all seem to want hand holding from GMs. You seem to want a trophy for just showing up. You seem to think your actions should not be held accountable when things don't go your way.

On the fairy tale note that is your final question tho, I think once a guild wipes, it's fair game.

Inny should have died to you guys long before we even showed up. When we found out that you guys had wiped and VD was on the way up, we moved to kill Inny so VD wouldn't. I couldn't care less who got it, as long as wasn't VD.

[arsenalpow]

Ok it's pointless to even attempt to fix this situation.

Pixel race 2012!!!

[Autotune]

Ok it's pointless to even attempt to fix this situation.

Pixel race 2012!!!

I am all ears on how you think TMO should give you mobs regardless of all other things concerned.

I am all ears on how you think TMO trained you on purpose.

I am all ears on how BDA couldn't of done anything more to alleviate the problem of that situation.

I'm more than willing to talk about anything you have to say, so long as you come at it from a reasonable and logic standpoint.

However, I am not gonna sit here and listen to you spout "OMFG TMO TRAINDED US AND WE DID EVERYTHING POSSIBLE TO NOT DO ANYTHING WRONG. WE ARE ANGELS AND THEY STOLE MY BIEK!"

I've been working to get other guilds into more targets within the current set-up of P99s ways. I doubt many of you do anything but bitch when shit gets fucked by both sides.

When you stick two twigs in a cheerio, some berries are gonna rub homie.

[quido]

If I stick my twig in your cheerio, will you rub my berries, homie?

[Metallikus]

I am all ears on how you think TMO should give you mobs regardless of all other things concerned.

I am all ears on how you think TMO trained you on purpose.

I am all ears on how BDA couldn't of done anything more to alleviate the problem of that situation.

I'm more than willing to talk about anything you have to say, so long as you come at it from a reasonable and logic standpoint.

However, I am not gonna sit here and listen to you spout "OMFG TMO TRAINDED US AND WE DID EVERYTHING POSSIBLE TO NOT DO ANYTHING WRONG. WE ARE ANGELS AND THEY STOLE MY BIEK!"

I've been working to get other guilds into more targets within the current set-up of P99s ways. I doubt many of you do anything but bitch when shit gets fucked by both sides.

When you stick two twigs in a cheerio, some berries are gonna rub homie.

I'd say if another guild is trying to attempt a god/dragon, that you don't interfere with their raid.

You guys seriously know what you are doing, so don't act like you don't. You have plenty of experience on the encounters. Don't pull mobs thru another raid, very simple and polite thing.

[Thana8088]

I'd say if another guild is trying to attempt a god/dragon, that you don't interfere with their raid.

You guys seriously know what you are doing, so don't act like you don't. You have plenty of experience on the encounters. Don't pull mobs thru another raid, very simple and polite thing.

I am pretty sure you read him say that they would do whatever they have to do to make sure VD doesn't get the target.....

[quido]

Go ahead and tag our mobs some more - I hope you train yourselves even harder next time.

Vesica Dei likes to dispute the methods which they also employ because they are shittier at employing them.

Metallikus, you are a whiny scrub. Get a clue.

[Autotune]

I'd say if another guild is trying to attempt a god/dragon, that you don't interfere with their raid.

You guys seriously know what you are doing, so don't act like you don't. You have plenty of experience on the encounters. Don't pull mobs thru another raid, very simple and polite thing.

by that reasoning, any guild could simply leap frog another (in terms of location) and simply cock block the guild behind them.

A guild could simply move anywhere to block another.

If Kitai hadn't of set off the DT, we probably wouldn't have pulled. Your team was attempting a shot at the net, we weren't going to let it happen, plain and simple.

While you sit here and bash TMO for pulling and killing Inny, I don't doubt you'd be telling a different story if you'd have gotten the pull/kill.

Or was VD's reasoning to port up to hate to just cheer on BDA? Do me a solid favor, take your raging retarded logic and go play with that similar of a female Lilyanna.

Edit: In all honesty, TMO could have just rushed passed BDA to the ramp 20feet in front of them. RIGHT WHERE they were pulling mobs down from the top. We could have simply put ourselves in position to be trained by their pulls, but instead chose a location where people were not pulling mobs over. Just like we moved from the entrance where VD was pulling mobs over us.

If we did do that and had been trained, TMO still would not have petitioned it. Unlike VD, we can admit our poor choice and tactics, instead of trying to pawn them off onto others to be blamed.

[arsenalpow]

I am all ears on how you think TMO should give you mobs regardless of all other things concerned.

I am all ears on how you think TMO trained you on purpose.

I am all ears on how BDA couldn't of done anything more to alleviate the problem of that situation.

I'm more than willing to talk about anything you have to say, so long as you come at it from a reasonable and logic standpoint.

However, I am not gonna sit here and listen to you spout "OMFG TMO TRAINDED US AND WE DID EVERYTHING POSSIBLE TO NOT DO ANYTHING WRONG. WE ARE ANGELS AND THEY STOLE MY BIEK!"

I've been working to get other guilds into more targets within the current set-up of P99s ways. I doubt many of you do anything but bitch when shit gets fucked by both sides.

When you stick two twigs in a cheerio, some berries are gonna rub homie.

Lol, you did train us! Were the mobs NOT going to path down the ramp and warp directly to your camp near church? No, of course not, they have to path through two other camps first!

Again you could have done this in innys room or at the top of the ramp.

This isn't about handouts. Obviously both VD/TMO have massive rosters and the ability to instantly produce 30+ raiders at the drop of a hat so you're in it for any mob that spawns at any time. We aren't afforded that luxury. So when we do feel like we have a legitimate shot at racing for a mob only to get trained twice (once by VD at the port in, and once by TMO at the ramp) it's frustrating. It's double frustrating when both of you feel like you did nothing wrong.

Again, both of you have been at each others throats for so long that this type of shit doesn't faze you anymore. For those of us who are newer to the raid scene, this whole process comes off as insanity. So pardon me for the QQ. Any sane individual can see the lunacy in this situation.

[Treats]

I'm not derailing anything, if it wasn't you that was standing and flopping from BDA, it was another of your monks.

Perhaps you shouldn't claim it.

Either way, you missed the entire point. It was about perspective of a situation from two different sides. You see it as being trained, I see it as you trying to KS a pull (purposely or not). Both things happened, which guild is to blame for what?

Should TMO be punished because you engaged a target that wasn't yours to gain social aggro and a train wiped most of your force?

Should BDA be punished for engaging a target that wasn't from their pull to which they caused themselves to be trained?

And the rules of engagement is FTE lays claim to the mob. The train that comes with it (if there is one) is also that guilds. Placing yourself onto the hate list by engaging another guild's mob is against the rules. Training another guild is against the rules.

If I root an entire train and someone starts using cancel magic to remove the CC and get added to the aggro list and dies, am i responsible for them too? Am I responsible for anyone else's actions that are not wearing my guild tag?

You all seem to want hand holding from GMs. You seem to want a trophy for just showing up. You seem to think your actions should not be held accountable when things don't go your way.

On the fairy tale note that is your final question tho, I think once a guild wipes, it's fair game.

Inny should have died to you guys long before we even showed up. When we found out that you guys had wiped and VD was on the way up, we moved to kill Inny so VD wouldn't. I couldn't care less who got it, as long as wasn't VD.

You and the other shitbags with this mentality are the exact problem with P99. People just cannot fucking bow out and leave/not come if another guild is in the zone and has beat them fair and square to a target. Do anything you can to get FTE whether it be training/leapfrogging/memblurring etc, who gives a fuck about anyone else.

Heres a wild fucking idea -- Maybe if you didn't port up to Hate after knowing two guilds were allready there, you wouldn't have to come here and defend the results of what happened.

It's gotten to the point where its absolutely fucking pathetic and I'm ashamed to even be part of the server. Grow up.

[falkun]

And by your reasoning whichever guild pulls the train should get the mob because the other(s) should camp out to avoid train aggro. So the new raiding philosophy is not "get the raid mob", its "train the other guild until they camp out".

[Autotune]

And by your reasoning whichever guild pulls the train should get the mob because the other(s) should camp out to avoid train aggro. So the new raiding philosophy is not "get the raid mob", its "train the other guild until they camp out".

except the train would have come to our camp, where we could have CC'd it properly and killed it after Inny. Instead, people derailed it onto their own camp by trying to KS it as it all passed thru them.

Some people don't understand the logic of how the mechanics work i suppose.

If you don't place yourself on the aggro list of a mob already aggrod by another, it won't stop and attack you. It will keep going for the other people on the aggro list.

The BDA monk above apparently doesn't understand this.

[quido]

The next time TMO and VD are racing for Talendor, I'm going to park our raid right between VD and Talendor, and when they have him incoming I'm going to tag him and when their puller FDs or whatever and their whole train attacks me, I'm going to come here and bitch to you all.

[falkun]

You still interfered with another raid camp with a train. Even if none of them aggroed, the train running through their camp is going to social aggro SOMEONE, the bards at least if not any other persons. Once you have a train, it is yours to control. If it paths through another camp, it is still yours to control. TR/IB was raid suspended when this happened to them for VS. It doesn't matter what the train does, its yours, and it wiped another raid. Did TMO not petition that VS kill to make that ruling?

[Metallikus]

except the train would have come to our camp, where we could have CC'd it properly and killed it after Inny. Instead, people derailed it onto their own camp by trying to KS it as it all passed thru them.

Some people don't understand the logic of how the mechanics work i suppose.

If you don't place yourself on the aggro list of a mob already aggrod by another, it won't stop and attack you. It will keep going for the other people on the aggro list.

The BDA monk above apparently doesn't understand this.

Apparently Stealin hasn't learned a simple game mechanic: If you pull multiple mobs thru a camp where people are buffing or fighting other mobs, the proximity of that combat and or buffing will chain agro any and all mobs that come thru that camp especially giant Gods with high agro range that AE.

[quido]

Going and sitting on the only path between the zone-in and a raid mob doesn't give you a rightful claim to that mob. When you choose to setup your camp in the way of imminent danger, you have no one to blame but yourselves.

[Autotune]

You still interfered with another raid camp with a train. Even if none of them aggroed, the train running through their camp is going to social aggro SOMEONE, the bards at least if not any other persons. Once you have a train, it is yours to control. If it paths through another camp, it is still yours to control. TR/IB was raid suspended when this happened to them for VS. It doesn't matter what the train does, its yours, and it wiped another raid. Did TMO not petition that VS kill to make that ruling?

Wrong
Wrong again
Again, wrong

1) You will not get social aggro from anything just by standing around it or casting buffs on yourself if a mob runs by while already aggro'd on someone else. I watched an IB monk attempt to give us social aggro on mobs in fear. I've tested it myself on my own guild members.

2) TR/IB was raid suspended because their bard brought a train back to VS and then died under our tank with the train. There by dropping the train on our raid.

3) We petitioned that he brought a train back and dropped it on us. We didn't petition because he pulled VS and we put ourselves on his social aggro and that social aggro of the train came and killed us when he died.

[Metallikus]

Going and sitting on the only path between the zone-in and a raid mob doesn't give you a rightful claim to that mob. When you choose to setup your camp in the way of imminent danger, you have no one to blame but yourselves.

I do agree that BDA setting up camp there was illogical since that is roamer central.

It doesn't excuse you from training them. Give them dudes a break.

[Autotune]

Apparently Stealin hasn't learned a simple game mechanic: If you pull multiple mobs thru a camp where people are buffing or fighting other mobs, the proximity of that combat and or buffing will chain agro any and all mobs that come thru that camp especially giant Gods with high agro range that AE.

you're an idiot, i'm not surprised you know little of how EQ works on p99.

Getting AE'd by Inny will not put you on his aggro list. Getting AE'd by inny and your pet attacks him will put you on his aggro list.

Casting buffs on yourself will not give you social aggro to mobs running by. Casting buffs on someone with aggro will give you aggro to the mobs and social aggro on all the mobs after the person who was originally on the aggro list dies/fds/gates/whatever.

You don't get social aggro immediately if someone gathers more mobs after you buff him either. You won't get it until he dies and the others assist when they go to seek mode.

If you want to know more about how some of this stuff works, just ask.

[quido]

Hay guys, this is MY camp - I don't care that it's right in the way of everyone and everything. It's mine because I was here first. If you pull anything through or around me (despite being left with no other choice), especially a raid mob, you're clearly just trying to train me and deserve a suspension according to article 1.57.IAmADipshit - STOP IT

[Metallikus]

you're an idiot, i'm not surprised you know little of how EQ works on p99.

Getting AE'd by Inny will not put you on his aggro list. Getting AE'd by inny and your pet attacks him will put you on his aggro list.

Casting buffs on yourself will not give you social aggro to mobs running by. Casting buffs on someone with aggro will give you aggro to the mobs and social aggro on all the mobs after the person who was originally on the aggro list dies/fds/gates/whatever.

You don't get social aggro immediately if someone gathers more mobs after you buff him either. You won't get it until he dies and the others assist when they go to seek mode.

If you want to know more about how some of this stuff works, just ask.

jesus christ, you said BDA was killing mobs at the bottom of ramp. In what world would 20 mobs from up top not assist those mobs you are training them past if their tank goes low hp?

[stormlord]

Instances are an absolutely freaking horrible idea.
I don't agree, but in p1999's case, I do.

Instances do not fit in the open world scheme that was classic eq.

More end game encounters is probably what's needed. It just requires more work than instances. But new content is never a bad thing! Instances can be a bad thing if they're over-used because it's not new.

A lockout timer for individual characters and a quicker spawn rate might work. If you've killed a particular endgame dragon, for example, and your lockout timer is still active, you cannot get credit for its kill or loot it. So you can't do a ninja steal, nor can you loot in someone else's place. An additional measure might be to prevent any attacks on the target for which you have a locket timer active. Further measures can be looked at as the situation becomes clearer. This would virtually eliminate guilds camping a target just for a few members who don't have the locket timer active. This also makes it easier to schedule raids because players don't have to fight their own natural impulse to kill a endgame target (in order to satisfy a server schedule). For example, if we just killed Inny and he quickly spawns again and we're able to get him, a server schedule that prohibits us from doing so feels weak. A lockout timer, on the other hand, doesn't have any give, so it won't feel weak. The quicker spawn rate is necessary to keep the population satisfied.

I think that server schedules are themselves a weak solution to a big problem. First, they're a potential sign that content is not meeting the needs of players. I say potential because a game might intend raids to only be a small part of the full game. But if players feel such a need to create server schedules, this hints that they're not content with raiding being a small part of the game, but it could also mean that the rest of the game does not meet its design goals. Second, they force players to work together in a way that's not welcome. Lockout timers can restrict the traffic and remove the need for the player community to do it themselves. This is critical. Players should not have to measure their game, that's the responsibility of the game itself. For example, if warriors are short on the server and players are supposed to know this in order to make more warriors to compensate, this is just bad management of the game. If warriors are short then this can be solved entirely on the development side. Forcing players to pick up the slack is making them do the developer's job.

I made a post about raiding on p1999 a little while back:
http://www.project1999.org/forums/showpost.php?p=392819&postcount=162

[Autotune]

jesus christ, you said BDA was killing mobs at the bottom of ramp. In what world would 20 mobs from up top not assist those mobs you are training them past if their tank goes low hp?

they won't assist, i can show you this too if you want.

[Lazortag]

If Inny g-fluxes you and your pet attacks him, if he was pulled in a very low-aggro way (such as with an eye of zomm) then he will likely attack you. If they were already fighting mobs at the ramp, then the social aggro would also likely be greater than the aggro produced by the eye. I'm not saying any of the above actually happened (I wasn't there), just saying how eye of zomm works. Twice I (accidentally) trained somebody in howling stones who was fighting a mob at the zone in, when I pulled the first 4 north mobs to the west wing with an eye of zomm, since when they walked over him the social aggro was enough to get the mobs more pissed at him than they were at me. Unless this has been changed since then, you should expect eyes to produce very little aggro and you should be careful pulling over other guilds. If TMO legitimately didn't know this, now they do.

[Autotune]

If Inny g-fluxes you and your pet attacks him, if he was pulled in a very low-aggro way (such as with an eye of zomm) then he will likely attack you. If they were already fighting mobs at the ramp, then the social aggro would also likely be greater than the aggro produced by the eye. I'm not saying any of the above actually happened (I wasn't there), just saying how eye of zomm works. Twice I (accidentally) trained somebody in howling stones who was fighting a mob at the zone in, when I pulled the first 4 north mobs to the west wing with an eye of zomm, since when they walked over him the social aggro was enough to get the mobs more pissed at him than they were at me. Unless this has been changed since then, you should expect eyes to produce very little aggro and you should be careful pulling over other guilds. If TMO legitimately didn't know this, now they do.

We already know, Zeelot had enough aggro on Inny/train to keep it while we tagged it at the top and bottom of the ramp. (I'm not going into detail on how he built up aggro).

The other people had more than enough aggro to keep it if they (bda) hadn't engaged as well, even if their pets had simply attacked inny.

Aggro range (body) pulling is one thing, Pulling a raid mob and building aggro and having other people build aggro by engaging is another.

Had they not engaged, the train would have stayed with our members and been CC'd in our camp.

At the most, if they had of been killing a mob at the bottom when inny pathed thru with the train (which they weren't, they had already killed the drakes they pulled) and their tank got social aggro somehow with low hp, Inny would have simply summoned him and killed him. The train would have stayed with us, been mezzed and then killed after or sent home via memblurs/calms or what have you depending on the other guilds current situations.

TMO never got the chance to CC it's own train, never got the chance to engage its mob as it planned. Reason? It was engaged by another guild.

[Lazortag]

Right, I don't know what happened and I'm not taking any sides, just saying what would have happened if only an eye was used to pull Inny. If that's not what happened then disregard my post.

[stormlord]

Updated the raiding link in my signature.

I still think all of this fighting about "server schedules" is a sign of a throughput problem.

[tekniq]

this thread has 2 much QQ, not enough pew pew. RnF material at this point honestly.

[Flunklesnarkin]

Need more ban hammer



threads like this make me doubt the policing of the server

[Grozmok]

I watched a bunch of groups get trained in Guk the other night. They all cried and claimed to report the assailant, but nothing ever came of it.

Not to say that the GMs aren't around, it just didn't seem like being trained was worthy of their time.

[arsenalpow]

Need more ban hammer



threads like this make me doubt the policing of the server

For the 5782647337th time, the server wouldn't need full time GM/guide policing if the raid guilds could just police themselves like normal well adjusted human beings. Transatlantic Basterds Inglourious Rampage left to EQMac because they felt they weren't getting a fair shake from the GM rulings, I guess it never occurred to them that they could inject some civility into the proceedings and Amelinda/Rogean wouldn't have to award loot every single time a FTE had to be researched. VD/TMO are walking that same path all over again and they don't give a fuck, as long as the pixels keep coming right?

[Flunklesnarkin]

Thats not going to happen... guilds aren't going to police themselves...


I've seen it rarely on a few servers.. in any mmo for the most part top raid guilds hack/cheat/claim bot/lie/deceive/rules lawyer / etc to achieve their goals.



With a small staff to actually police the server.. I'd say longer suspensions or bans would help them keep ahead of the flow of shit.


At least give them a few less petitions to look at for a couple weeks.



Enough about the "banning people is going to drop the population"


Its raid level players not the standard people leveling up.


There seems to be plenty of raid level players too... most raid targets are dead within 2 minutes of spawn.


would it hurt the game if a raid target lived 15 mins or 30 mins?

[Silentone]

More pixels plz

[Grozmok]

More pixels plz

If you can't beat 'em

[username1337]

It's funny that all the people saying that this wouldn't be classic are the only people that think having camped loot for hours upon hours from absolutely random drop chances for most every item, would rather continue to sit on their asses and waste more time on such a slowly paced game.

Raiding is no where near like it was on live, because there are no maintenance days. The folks here at P99 think they're making changes that will help the situation, but it's never going to change.

Who the fuck cares if more people have access to the HANDFUL of raid targets and zones around? Only the people who actually enjoy the poopsocking, harassing GMs about the rules, complaining and bitching, and calling contested Everquest mobs in zones like VP or the Planes, 'competition'.

"Oh my god, you mean if shit was instanced, instead of spending 100 hours camping Fear for a set of xyz, they'll be spending 100 hours camping it still?!!!!"

Changing the zones to instances (sans the PvP Server), doesn't change the loot drop chances. The only reason they would increase is due to no system of lockouts, which Everquest most definitely has. And for anyone who wants to argue that you could have six different raids going on per every lockout timer, which would mean up to 6x the loot being dropped, people would be locked to their instance. Have it be lockout upon entry, and first mob killed. Really would be a simple system to prevent loot sales from the planes. If you entered any Plane you had an automatic 3 hour lock to that instance, if you killed a mob, even a trash mob, you'd be locked to that instance for the remainder of the lockout. If the lockout was 3 days, you could do it every three days. If someone really wanted to sit around and buy loot from the planes, they'd have a whopping two chances to do it every six hours, and they'd have to pray that the two raids during that six hours are spaced apart and not going on at the same time. Keep the non-requirement zones contested, Vox, Naggy, Kunark Dragons sans VP, Venril, etc. That's literally the only 'competition' Blue can speak of. I find it absolutely hilarious that people on a non-pvp server are complaining about other people getting primarily no-drop loot, on a server where it matters the least. "OH MAN DID YOU SEE THAT JOE'S GUILD GOT ALL THAT GOOD GEAR LAST NIGHT? THEY'LL BE ABLE TO KILL 1% CLOSER TO THE RATE THAT WE DO NOW! RUH-ROH!!!" Seriously, get over yourselves.

It's too bad it couldn't be done here, it certainly never will be. The only thing that will help Kunark and Planes raid availability is going to be Velious, even then people will still be raiding the Planes and Kunark. Don't expect anything other than what happens day in and day out.

Basically. What people call "competition" on P1999 is laughable. I guarantee if scheduled simulated patch days were introduced (as was classic) then this "competition" fiasco would be over in a heartbeat.

[oldfish]

Tired of people locking down raid content that you will never see because of the poopcamp rules on blue?

Hop over to red99.

Organize a pvp raid group and go poop on the zerg guild's raid.

[Versus]

Uh, until this?:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c8/EverQuest_-_Lost_Dungeons_of_Norrath_Coverart.png

The whole expansion was a series of instances.

^Why I quit EQ. Fuck instances. Fuck them in the asshole.

[Flunklesnarkin]

The most instanced mmo i ever played was D&D online


literally there are no zones except safe zone cities...


every time you travel somewhere or exp its an instance.


It's F2P tho so you can give it a look and see what i mean if you bored lol

[Hitchens]

Deepest Guk was a pretty cool dungeon.

I'm probably going to get flamed.

[Kika Maslyaka]

Deepest Guk was a pretty cool dungeon.

I'm probably going to get flamed.

it would be a cool dungeon... if not for 8-10 copy and paste copies of it.
though even that was better than what they did later - just ONE version of the zone for everyone

[Ravager]

^Why I quit EQ. Fuck instances. Fuck them in the asshole.

Can't believe you made it to LDoN. The game sucked for a long time by then.

[Dullah]

All 120 of you?

Pops rising on red. Content coming out, lots of sleepers just waiting for stuff to do.

Nows the time to strike out and join the fun. eff rotations.