Let's be real for a moment [Archive]

Abacab

04-30-2010, 01:10 AM

Why are we handling raid encounters like the U.S Senate? Do we really have to have rules of order to engage mobs?

The 30 minute timer doesn't work especially in fear when you can just chain charm a mob to keep the timer from being called, the 15 in a zone is detrimental cause it holds a encounter if you can only muster 14 (the difference between 14 and 15 is what one bard? One druid?) it's not make or break to an extreme sense.

These encounters should be first to hit, first to get, If any guild thinks they can attempt a mob with less than 15 let them, if another guild is behind them and thinks that this guild is too slow they should just make their way to the mob, I'm not advocating KSing the mob but dear god do we really have to sit and twiddle our thumbs for 30 minutes for a guild to engage?

These rules are not so much raiding as much as inter-guild politics, and it not only feels fake to the classic experience but they're total bullshit to begin with and serve no point other than to deter "collateral damage"

Very few people in the end game scene like these rules, everyone else I've talked to wants FFA, they want the ability to compete as rival guilds not play Rogers rules of order on every single encounter, and you as GM's should have to babysit, and coddle these raid guilds.

If a raid guild is crying to you in IRC about X guild leapfrogging, or Y guild cockblocking their encounter, you as GMs have the right to ignore those complaints, it's not going to hurt the server because cry babies always return and if they don't, did you really want them here in the first place?

I'd say remove these ridiculous raid rules, and stop enforcing them, let raid disputes be between the players and keep it FFA, or have you completely forgotten what EQ was 10 years ago or even 2 years ago for that matter?

Taluvill

04-30-2010, 01:22 AM

I agree with the FFA call, but if CT pop,s he will be the one issue. No guild will clear the zone if needed to do so, for fear someone else will engage CT

I'd say remove these ridiculous raid rules, and stop enforcing them, let raid disputes be between the players and keep it FFA

atm, we do police our raid situation. They had a guild meeting for that

Virtuosos

04-30-2010, 01:30 AM

Zithax

04-30-2010, 02:11 AM

Abacab

04-30-2010, 02:12 AM

less than 15 is fine, dont care..if you think you can do it with a group of 5...then go for it.

but allowing people the chance to ks and leapfrog is dumb...its a dick move on the frogger's part and every1 should have a relatively fair chance....if you got a force of 10 trying to clear to a boss and a group of 30 comes out of no where, starts clearing as well and then attacks first....then boo -.-

Isn't KSing if they are the first to hit, KSing implies after they are engaging and you bring a crew of 10 mages to burn the mob down... As for leap frogging it's done on a daily basis in groups, it only is frowned upon so highly on raids and to be honest it was the creme of the crop in terms of competition, and its not that big of a deal because it forces you to get bigger forces, and clear more quickly.

Abacab

04-30-2010, 02:15 AM

I agree with the FFA call, but if CT pop,s he will be the one issue. No guild will clear the zone if needed to do so, for fear someone else will engage CT

atm, we do police our raid situation. They had a guild meeting for that

Eventually someone will clear because the zone HAS to be clear to get the mob (you can stalemate as much as possible but someone is gonna start whacking mobs) and once it's clear obviously it's going to be a rush to the mob to who can get it first.

No one is going to rush CT less the zone is clear so any guild can prepare for that by pulling as close to CT as possible and be in prep for the pull

Abacab

04-30-2010, 02:19 AM

Thanks to former transcendence members for that? Where were you when IB was asking for FFA when the rotation was around? We had to engineer this bullshit to keep it mildly fair and get out of that dreadful rotation.

Cause you guys never listen to me? I've made my stance on the mobs clear on several occasions, to Xzerion, to Daidraco, to my own guild it's not like I've never brought this up.

I was a very large proponent for randomly spawning all raid encounters on a random date once a week and have a FFA brawl to get as many mobs down as possible, like on a Tuesday night have Inny, CT, Naggy, Vox pop on some arbitrary timeslot have the raiding guilds rush their target and kill as quick as possible to try and score a second or third.

Rinse and repeat that process but choose another date so people don't camp the encounters and so it fosters the competition without making absurd rules of engagement

Pheer

04-30-2010, 02:57 AM

Cause you guys never listen to me? I've made my stance on the mobs clear on several occasions, to Xzerion, to Daidraco, to my own guild it's not like I've never brought this up.

I was a very large proponent for randomly spawning all raid encounters on a random date once a week and have a FFA brawl to get as many mobs down as possible, like on a Tuesday night have Inny, CT, Naggy, Vox pop on some arbitrary timeslot have the raiding guilds rush their target and kill as quick as possible to try and score a second or third.

Rinse and repeat that process but choose another date so people don't camp the encounters and so it fosters the competition without making absurd rules of engagement

People are going to bitch no matter what system you have. We have a fucking automated spawn variance system and people still think one guild is receiving inside info or using hacks to know when mobs are spawning. Now imagine the shit storm if the mobs were all set to spawn at the same time on a certain date and one guild managed to get there before the others?

Gwence

04-30-2010, 03:25 AM

The system right now isnt terrible, just needs a few tweaks I think.

PoFear stuff should be worked out more specifically to avoid some of these retarded "technicalities".

You definitely shouldnt get 30 minutes on Naggy if the fire giants are already down, likewise with vox if ice giants are already down. It should be cut to 10 min like CT if they are down prior to the dragon spawning.

If you go FFA added with spawn variance, IB will get everything. While that is perfectly fine with me =p, I have a hard time believing a majority of people would support that. The system in now has started to show that some of the other guilds can get some kills here and there, even though they usually have to team up with another guild or camp in a zone 5 days out of the week. They still get to say they killed the mean boss!

Virtuosos

04-30-2010, 03:41 AM

Prospect

04-30-2010, 03:52 AM

FFA

100% agree, that or let guildwars decide who gets the mob.

Hasbinbad

04-30-2010, 04:11 AM

Weekly PvP Tournament for draft pick of raid mob kill rights.

Should I resurrect the thread?

Yellow

04-30-2010, 05:36 AM

Firstly Abacab never seen a post by you so not flame ridden.. but this is so true and speaks he truth! FFa is the only sensible reason.
I agree with the FFA call, but if CT pop,s he will be the one issue. No guild will clear the zone if needed to do so, for fear someone else will engage CT

atm, we do police our raid situation. They had a guild meeting for that

no reason for a guild meeting guilds are supposed to compete not hold each others hands and willy nilly tel each other when they can raid. screw your competition. they only want your loot after all right?

less than 15 is fine, dont care..if you think you can do it with a group of 5...then go for it.

but allowing people the chance to ks and leapfrog is dumb...its a dick move on the frogger's part and every1 should have a relatively fair chance....if you got a force of 10 trying to clear to a boss and a group of 30 comes out of no where, starts clearing as well and then attacks first....then boo -.-

Fairness are you fucking dumb?

Cause you guys never listen to me? I've made my stance on the mobs clear on several occasions, to Xzerion, to Daidraco, to my own guild it's not like I've never brought this up.

I was a very large proponent for randomly spawning all raid encounters on a random date once a week and have a FFA brawl to get as many mobs down as possible, like on a Tuesday night have Inny, CT, Naggy, Vox pop on some arbitrary timeslot have the raiding guilds rush their target and kill as quick as possible to try and score a second or third.

Rinse and repeat that process but choose another date so people don't camp the encounters and so it fosters the competition without making absurd rules of engagement
Sorry abacb this is where you are blind.. all at once? no random variance that is LESS predictable ( it will always have math involved and can be cracked) is the way to go. hands down. Variance FFA. thats the closest thing to fairness

100% agree, that or let guildwars decide who gets the mob.

to bad the Guildwar code is broken.

Weekly PvP Tournament for draft pick of raid mob kill rights.

Should I resurrect the thread?

What a TERRIBLE idea hasbin :S FFA or bust.. ignore the bitching... and get on with it lol... Ban KS etc. its so simple and the gm's refuse to see that they are making things 10fold more difficult by being the way they are because the wont allow FFA. all because what? "we don't wanna deal with the bitching" Wow sure avoided the bitching huh?

Otto

04-30-2010, 10:15 AM

I liked hasbin's idea when the GM's and trans forced a rotation on us.

Now that a large majority seem to be complaining and wanting FFA since none of their silly rules has helped the situation any, perhaps we should look into FFA more seriously.

I highly doubt the dev staff will agree. They got too much stuff on their plate as is, and they don't need more raid drama.

inb4 it wouldn't cause more raid drama because it was agreed upon by the raid guilds.

Kinamur1999

04-30-2010, 10:19 AM

it's not going to hurt the server because cry babies always return and if they don't, did you really want them here in the first place?

I always love that every single argument brought up on these forums, whether its camp rules or raid rules or anything, is fuck everyone that doesnt agree we dont need them.

Honestly for all the people screaming they want FFA im sure there are just as many screaming they dont want ffa raid targets. I have talked to a handful of people 5-10 that told me they would quit if it was turned ffa again, but of course who cares about that.

So go right ahead and turn it back to ffa i hope you all have fun ksing training spamming the shit out of the forums because thats pretty much what ffa is going to do...again

Hasbinbad

04-30-2010, 10:23 AM

Bumamgar

04-30-2010, 11:16 AM

The current raid engagement rules make sense to me and reflect what most honorable guilds and GMs would adhere to on live anyway. ie: First in force gets the mob, with a reasonable (30 minutes) time frame to engage (ie: no stalling).

Most of the parent's post makes no sense anyway... What does chain charming a mob have to do with anything? Or 15 in zone vs 14? Clearly if you can kill the target with 14, go for it. Nothing in the current raid rules prevents that, it just means that 14 people isn't enough to 'claim' a target by virtue of simply being in the zone. You have to have 15 people present to stake a 30 minute claim on a target, any less than that, and you might get leapfrogged.

Of course, this is based only on my reading of the raid rules and experiences in the past on Live. Not quite ready to experience p99 raiding first hand yet, but I'm getting there :)

Yellow

04-30-2010, 12:03 PM

but the thing is make certain guidleines with things you cant do i guess. oly a few about Ksing and shit like that and make it bannable....

i think we could all make FFa work, but there would need to be some serious discussion about this and i think FFa should be considered big time, TBH This would relive alot from the Devs, because yeah there would be drama but they wouldnt have to deal with it.. because it would be FFA only things they would have to deal with would be the same shit that happens or that isnt allowed now

if this makes anysense?

Xumosa

04-30-2010, 12:08 PM

If we go FFA, then we MUST pvp flag all raid zones so my rogue group can pk your wizard group before they can outdamage us.

FFA = whatever group can field 6 wizards with the highest manapool wins.

Every time.

I remember seeing groups of SK's walk up to VS and all hit HT at same time and KS that boss every single time heh

Broggernaut

04-30-2010, 12:14 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but an FFA approach to raiding just seems to only promote straight zerging.

I don't think I'm down with that :(

Rhalous

04-30-2010, 12:29 PM

There is a guild meeting once a month. I suggest you talk to your officers if you don't like the way we are handling things.

Virtuosos

04-30-2010, 01:21 PM

xorbier

04-30-2010, 01:51 PM

Abacab

04-30-2010, 01:58 PM

and rhalous, i think abacab is lobbying pretty heavily to the 2 trans members going to the meeting to bring it up. going to be interesting to see what all happens....hopefully the guildnotes dont take so long to post :p

There are only three of us vocal about it, but you're telling me man that you're not tired of:

Abacab tells guild: CT is up
Guild: How many in the zone?
Abacab tells guild: 13 IB
Guild: Nah, just leave it alone

I understand that not everyone in the guild can be on 24/7 and that's cool but the sheer apathy of not even contending for mobs if one guild has 15 in the zone is gut wrenching.

It's nothing to do with the guild, or the officers, but I'm wanting to break the guild out of it's "Give or take" attitude cause we are never going to get raid targets until we either tighten up, and put as much effort into it as the other guilds,or we wait til kunark comes out to trivialize the content further.

and I'd rather not piss around for the latter.

Rhalous

04-30-2010, 02:08 PM

I had such high hopes for this server and to find out it's political on who gets what mobs in the end is just ridiculous.

It is not as you fear.

Perhaps we should sticky http://project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=5778

Bumamgar

04-30-2010, 02:11 PM

Raid encounters are regulated!?! WTF

As a newer player finding this out I must say I'm extraordinarily disappointed. I had such high hopes for this server and to find out it's political on who gets what mobs in the end is just ridiculous. In the old days the good guilds competed and the competition was so much fun! Sometimes you got to the mob first, sometimes you didn't, that was the fun of it!

To the previous poster who talked about fairness, you should know that's the same idiotic thinking that has led to lead to socialism and tyranny in the world. Everything's fair and equal in Cuba and China right??? I'm sick of people wanting things to be "fair" and "equal". If you work hard at something you should have the right to receive the fruits of your labor. It's a very naive way of thinking and although you may have the best intention, remember the path to hell is paved with good intentions.

I truly hope the server is not regulated like this and these are just rumors. I had such high hopes.

They aren't 'regulated' in any sort of political sense (ie: no rotations or anything like that).

There are simply some guidelines to help adjudicate disputes. Specifically, a raid that is 'first in force' gets a short (30 min) time window to engage the target. First in force is defined as 'having 15 players in zone'.

So, the guild who is fastest to mobilize and get 15 players into the raid zone gets an uncontested 30 minutes to engage the target. If they dilly dally around and don't engage in 30 minutes, they lose their 'claim' on the target and any other force can engage it.

Usually this sort of policy helps prevent griefing and limits the amount of petitions and arguing involved in the (often) ugly race for contested raid targets. Basically this policy rewards quick mobilization, and helps prevent tactics like leapfrogging or 'alpha strike' KS'ing which often occur in a totally 'free-for-all' raid environment. In other words, it favors guilds who are organized and can mobilize quickly, and dis-favors guilds who prefer to use underhanded tactics like leapfrogging and training.

xorbier

04-30-2010, 02:19 PM

Thank you for the clarification I appreciate it! :)

I was worried there for a minute.

Tudana

04-30-2010, 03:25 PM

They aren't 'regulated' in any sort of political sense (ie: no rotations or anything like that).

There are simply some guidelines to help adjudicate disputes. Specifically, a raid that is 'first in force' gets a short (30 min) time window to engage the target. First in force is defined as 'having 15 players in zone'.

So, the guild who is fastest to mobilize and get 15 players into the raid zone gets an uncontested 30 minutes to engage the target. If they dilly dally around and don't engage in 30 minutes, they lose their 'claim' on the target and any other force can engage it.

Usually this sort of policy helps prevent griefing and limits the amount of petitions and arguing involved in the (often) ugly race for contested raid targets. Basically this policy rewards quick mobilization, and helps prevent tactics like leapfrogging or 'alpha strike' KS'ing which often occur in a totally 'free-for-all' raid environment. In other words, it favors guilds who are organized and can mobilize quickly, and dis-favors guilds who prefer to use underhanded tactics like leapfrogging and training.

does that 30 mins to engage the target include clearing of the panes in order to get to the bosses? or is the target the policies are refering to actual bosses?

I would think clearing the plane and putting in the time to do so would entitle that guild to the bosses uncontested.

Bumamgar

04-30-2010, 03:33 PM

I don't know the answer to that, as I am not yet in a position to raid the planes :)

I'm sure someone who is an experienced raider here on p99 can comment on how the GMs have adjudicated this scenario in the past.

Kinamur1999

04-30-2010, 03:46 PM

There are only three of us vocal about it, but you're telling me man that you're not tired of:

Abacab tells guild: CT is up
Guild: How many in the zone?
Abacab tells guild: 13 IB
Guild: Nah, just leave it alone

I understand that not everyone in the guild can be on 24/7 and that's cool but the sheer apathy of not even contending for mobs if one guild has 15 in the zone is gut wrenching.

It's nothing to do with the guild, or the officers, but I'm wanting to break the guild out of it's "Give or take" attitude cause we are never going to get raid targets until we either tighten up, and put as much effort into it as the other guilds,or we wait til kunark comes out to trivialize the content further.

and I'd rather not piss around for the latter.

Sorry aba but your post here makes it look like all of your problems are with your guilds attitude.

Slugs

04-30-2010, 03:49 PM

Read my signature.

Virtuosos

04-30-2010, 05:12 PM

not training is being respectful, but i guess thats a huge issue as well and it should be "fuck you i want this camp so i kill you". being fair and respectful is sort of what makes the world a better place instead of this "i deserve XXX because i can kill you and take it"

but, if thats the case, time to go spend time farming low leveld items i guess

Izzni

04-30-2010, 05:18 PM

Based on very limited experience it seems like there is plenty of healthy competition under the current rules. Perhaps you just don't like the game the guild leaders decided to play (the who can get there faster one). A game involving who can pull the boss faster would likely bring in tactics like waiting for them to pull trash and then running past them to boss. Not only does that seem PvPish to me, but large numbers of people moving attract mobs. One raid leaping another guild trying to clear trash and ending up bringing some unintended mobs with them seems like some epic drama that I have a feeling most people are not interested in.

Abacab

04-30-2010, 08:43 PM

Sorry aba but your post here makes it look like all of your problems are with your guilds attitude.

It's not my guild, it's not anyone's guild persay because these sentiments run deep through multiple guilds so in my case it's not an isolated feeling.

Abacab

04-30-2010, 08:44 PM

Dabamf

04-30-2010, 09:14 PM

Abacab

05-01-2010, 01:03 AM

FFA = IB gets every raid mob. I don't think you want this.

Your problem is that your guild won't mobilize if another guild beats them to the zone. Ever notice that any raid mob you kill, IB is breathing down your neck? That's because we will move to a zone even if we are beaten in order to put pressure on the other guild.

Your problem is with your guild. If the server goes FFA, for one there will be way too much drama for GMs to deal with, and two, IB will get all the raid targets.

I don't think that's the case, we have had 13 in a zone before IB has had 10 on many instances, but we wait around for 15 before we engage so we're just shouting in guildchat "GET TWO MORE, GET TWO MORE" instead of just being like we have 13 let's kill this dragon...

in the end you get 15 in the zone and we still have the 13 so we have to call 30 minutes on you, when we should've just started clearing giants. If you think we can't take Vox or Nagafen with 13 or 14 you're undercutting our ability, because I've spoke with Otto who agrees that IB can kill a mob with less than 15.

So I'm contesting that this 15 in the zone, 30 minute timer just inhibits many guilds who can't get that 15th member in the zone so it stunts them because the moment the opposing guild gets 15 we can't touch the mob and we have to call 30 minutes.

I say if you've got a force that you feel can take an encounter go ahead and try for it, if they fail the other guild can take it. There should be no timers because those are just silly and we should just make a mad dash to get the raid encounter, and the first guild to the mob to engage the target should have first shot

Abacab

05-01-2010, 01:05 AM

Adding on to this "It causes drama for GM's" I'd like to think they should handle this as a non-interventionist and just not respond to petitions and PM's relating to raid matters... Just as easy at it is for you to type /ignore it's just as easy for them

ulrich

05-01-2010, 01:32 AM

Surprisingly I agree with you abacab. If we have 6 pet classes or whatever in a naggy group and we are killing firegiants on our way to naggy or just in the zone first. We should be able to try naggy and not need 15 people to claim him. Any force that believe they can take the raid mob should have 1 shot at it. If they are in the zone first with their whole force. Without being able to add more people once they claim their first shot at the mob. You all know chaining pets would kill naggy/vox etc.

And to Dabamf ... You have a massive ego. Why is I.B. losing the fight to mobilize to over half of the raid targets this last week. Or so I heard. Since they fixed the spawn variance??

Lol IT"S JUST A GAME. Enjoy it. Don't burst a vessel over it.

SerithCantSpell

05-01-2010, 02:36 AM

LOL at all you 5 am loot whores.

Inglourious Basterds IS THAT WAY ----------->

Alawen Everywhere

05-01-2010, 04:06 AM

And to Dabamf ... You have a massive ego. Why is I.B. losing the fight to mobilize to over half of the raid targets this last week. Or so I heard. Since they fixed the spawn variance??

What an interesting thing you heard. Your information is false regarding both mobilization and the variance.

Abacab

05-01-2010, 04:40 AM

What an interesting thing you heard. Your information is false regarding both mobilization and the variance.

Naw bro, you're losing cause people are camping 16+ hours in zone, and charming/breaking/charming the last mob in fear

TheDudeAbides

05-01-2010, 05:09 AM

Naw bro, you're losing cause people are camping 16+ hours in zone, and charming/breaking/charming the last mob in fear

Everyone camps the bosses

Some people do it with druids. Some with guilds. It's the same damn thing

Modus

05-01-2010, 05:21 AM

I think it's funny that every time IB loses raid mobs, they show up on the forums whining for rule changes.

At this rate you'll end up like Krimz.

SerithCantSpell

05-01-2010, 05:59 AM

http://files1.guildlaunch.net/guild/library/121531/site_files/site_header5782.jpg

Inglourious Basterds is a zerg guild operating on the Project 1999 EQ EMU server. Our goal is to zerg the content of the classic era of Everquest. We strive not only to be the first to down bosses, but to cockblock other people, with more zergs, and with more pathetic people than any other organization attempting to do what we do. Inglourious Basterds adhere strictly not only to shit on the server, but to a strict internal code of douchebaggery and lots of mountain dews, which shapes how we play the game. Our member pool is fed largely from the welfare center, and we do not recruit people with friends nor familiy - this being said, we encourage our members to openly gank, screw or zergrush any individuals who show promise to raids or other guild groups. While we strive to be the "vision of sad pathetic dumb lewt whores" on Project 1999 in terms of our ethics and our non existant relations with the servers population, a 'family guild' we are not; we are dirty cheaters, and we are not what most people would call 'normal.' Show us respect and you'll get nothing, but we'd rather you give us reason to guildwar.

Join today!

http://ib.guildlaunch.com/recruiting/create_apply.php?gid=121531

Gwence

05-01-2010, 06:40 AM

I think it's funny that every time IB loses raid mobs, they show up on the forums whining for rule changes.

At this rate you'll end up like Krimz.

abacab is in transcendence, not ib

jilena

05-01-2010, 07:26 AM

I think the important thing here is for IB to stop ruining the server for everybody.

metatron

05-01-2010, 07:38 AM

somewhere...QT is rolling over in his grave

fastboy21

05-01-2010, 07:51 AM

how is this not classic?

there were play nice and rule of engagement policies in classic.

calaxa

05-01-2010, 08:02 AM

I don't think that's the case, we have had 13 in a zone before IB has had 10 on many instances, but we wait around for 15 before we engage so we're just shouting in guildchat "GET TWO MORE, GET TWO MORE" instead of just being like we have 13 let's kill this dragon...

in the end you get 15 in the zone and we still have the 13 so we have to call 30 minutes on you, when we should've just started clearing giants. If you think we can't take Vox or Nagafen with 13 or 14 you're undercutting our ability, because I've spoke with Otto who agrees that IB can kill a mob with less than 15.

So I'm contesting that this 15 in the zone, 30 minute timer just inhibits many guilds who can't get that 15th member in the zone so it stunts them because the moment the opposing guild gets 15 we can't touch the mob and we have to call 30 minutes.

I say if you've got a force that you feel can take an encounter go ahead and try for it, if they fail the other guild can take it. There should be no timers because those are just silly and we should just make a mad dash to get the raid encounter, and the first guild to the mob to engage the target should have first shot

Abacab,

First off, I'm surprised at your well written and coherent argument as it may damage your infamy on project1999's wiki. =)

Secondly, I think you misinterpret this 15 member in zone rule. As I understand it, you can engage a target with whatever size force you feel is sufficient to successfully defeat the target. So long as no other force comes with the minimum 15, you have the luxury of no time limit to engage. If a second force arrives that comprises of a minimum of 15 members, they have the authority to call a 30 minute timer on you to engage. If this is not the correct interpretation, then I apologize but that is how I am understanding the rules of engagement.

Bumamgar

05-01-2010, 08:09 AM

I don't think that's the case, we have had 13 in a zone before IB has had 10 on many instances, but we wait around for 15 before we engage so we're just shouting in guildchat "GET TWO MORE, GET TWO MORE" instead of just being like we have 13 let's kill this dragon...

in the end you get 15 in the zone and we still have the 13 so we have to call 30 minutes on you, when we should've just started clearing giants. If you think we can't take Vox or Nagafen with 13 or 14 you're undercutting our ability, because I've spoke with Otto who agrees that IB can kill a mob with less than 15.

So I'm contesting that this 15 in the zone, 30 minute timer just inhibits many guilds who can't get that 15th member in the zone so it stunts them because the moment the opposing guild gets 15 we can't touch the mob and we have to call 30 minutes.

I say if you've got a force that you feel can take an encounter go ahead and try for it, if they fail the other guild can take it. There should be no timers because those are just silly and we should just make a mad dash to get the raid encounter, and the first guild to the mob to engage the target should have first shot

This is a problem with your guild, not the policies. There is nothing in the policies that state you have to have 15. If you have 13 in zone and can handle the encounter with that many, you should engage. Sitting around waiting for another 2 players just to meet the '15 player threshold' doesn't make any sense unless you NEED those 2 players to defeat the target. Even so, you'd be better served clearing towards your target while you wait.

What you fail to realize is that in FFA, that 'mad dash' that you describe turns into a bar-room brawl more often than not, with opposing guilds training each other, leapfrogging, and other nasty tactics. It ends up being no fun for anyone except the players who get off on being asshats. Having first-in-force policies tends to prevent that sort of behavior, yet still allows for the 'race'. It just sets the finish line at 'having a raid force in zone ready to engage' instead of 'getting the boss mob to 0 hit points'. This allows the guilds in question to actually, you know, use strategy in raid fights, instead of having to zerg everything just to make sure they get the kill shot and have enough spare players to deal with trains etc. FFA results in a completely different game and raid dynamic, one that only bullies tend to enjoy (but only when they are doing the training... they're always the first to whine when they are on the receiving end).

Kinamur1999

05-01-2010, 08:32 AM

There is nothing in the policies that state you have to have 15. If you have 13 in zone and can handle the encounter with that many, you should engage. Sitting around waiting for another 2 players just to meet the '15 player threshold' doesn't make any sense unless you NEED those 2 players to defeat the target.

right? why would you stand around waiting for 2?

Now if you had 13 and started clearing then another guild walked in with 15 and did a camp check, could they in theory claim the raid mob from anywhere in zone since they have the force even though its being pulled/cleared by less than 15? that seems real stupid to me....

CPTMULLER

05-01-2010, 08:32 AM

This is a problem with your guild, not the policies. There is nothing in the policies that state you have to have 15. If you have 13 in zone and can handle the encounter with that many, you should engage. Sitting around waiting for another 2 players just to meet the '15 player threshold' doesn't make any sense unless you NEED those 2 players to defeat the target. Even so, you'd be better served clearing towards your target while you wait.

What you fail to realize is that in FFA, that 'mad dash' that you describe turns into a bar-room brawl more often than not, with opposing guilds training each other, leapfrogging, and other nasty tactics. It ends up being no fun for anyone except the players who get off on being asshats. Having first-in-force policies tends to prevent that sort of behavior, yet still allows for the 'race'. It just sets the finish line at 'having a raid force in zone ready to engage' instead of 'getting the boss mob to 0 hit points'. This allows the guilds in question to actually, you know, use strategy in raid fights, instead of having to zerg everything just to make sure they get the kill shot and have enough spare players to deal with trains etc. FFA results in a completely different game and raid dynamic, one that only bullies tend to enjoy (but only when they are doing the training... they're always the first to whine when they are on the receiving end).

No, just no.

http://project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=5778&highlight=meeting

read it, then speak

Abacab

05-01-2010, 12:42 PM

right? why would you stand around waiting for 2?

Now if you had 13 and started clearing then another guild walked in with 15 and did a camp check, could they in theory claim the raid mob from anywhere in zone since they have the force even though its being pulled/cleared by less than 15? that seems real stupid to me....

That's what I'm saying if we were clearing with 14, and got to the last ice giant in permafrost and another guild zones in with 15, we would literally have to cease and desist to call 30 minutes on the force with 15

calaxa

05-01-2010, 02:22 PM

That's what I'm saying if we were clearing with 14, and got to the last ice giant in permafrost and another guild zones in with 15, we would literally have to cease and desist to call 30 minutes on the force with 15

I think the current rules are you have the camp with your 14 and the other force now can call 30 minutes on you. That's what I wrote earlier. Think you are misinterpretating the rules.

Audacious93c

05-01-2010, 02:27 PM

Lets have your guild in the zone with 14 and let IB zone in with 15 and see what happens then.

Hasbinbad

05-01-2010, 02:50 PM

Inglourious Basterds is a zerg guild operating on the Project 1999 EQ EMU server. Our goal is to zerg the content of the classic era of Everquest. We strive not only to be the first to down bosses, but to cockblock other people, with more zergs, and with more pathetic people than any other organization attempting to do what we do. Inglourious Basterds adhere strictly not only to shit on the server, but to a strict internal code of douchebaggery and lots of mountain dews, which shapes how we play the game. Our member pool is fed largely from the welfare center, and we do not recruit people with friends nor familiy - this being said, we encourage our members to openly gank, screw or zergrush any individuals who show promise to raids or other guild groups. While we strive to be the "vision of sad pathetic dumb lewt whores" on Project 1999 in terms of our ethics and our non existant relations with the servers population, a 'family guild' we are not; we are dirty cheaters, and we are not what most people would call 'normal.' Show us respect and you'll get nothing, but we'd rather you give us reason to guildwar.
You have absolutely no idea how funny this actually is.

Bumamgar

05-01-2010, 03:14 PM

No, just no.

http://project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=5778&highlight=meeting

read it, then speak

Well that's a bunch of overcomplicated happy horseshit. Are the raiding guilds on this server that immature that such rules are actually needed?

I mean really, it should be pretty simple... If a guild has a force in zone working towards a target in a reasonable manner, they are first in force and should be left alone. If they are just sitting around with their thumb up their ass, then they don't have a claim to anything. Common sense, no real complicated rules should be needed, unless people are pricks and think it's ok to run over another raid when it is clear said other raid is actually progressing and not stalling.

Kinamur1999

05-01-2010, 03:16 PM

Lets say if you have 7-14 people the other force can call and you get 15 minutes. if in 15 minutes you get 15 people you get an additional 15 minutes giving you the 30 minute marker.

so people under 15 get a window, and if they have a couple stragglers that catch up it extends the timer so its not like they get a lot of extra time.

Yellow

05-01-2010, 03:44 PM

i mean shit i wuld kill the boss with 14 to prove the point that 15 isnt needed :] plus i wanna see a PUG grp kill a target and see what happens then!

jilena

05-01-2010, 06:36 PM

I think the best DDR player in each guild needs to face off with the opposing guild's DDR champion. See who really gets served!

Taluvill

05-01-2010, 06:47 PM

Inglourious Basterds is a zerg guild operating on the Project 1999 EQ EMU server. Our goal is to zerg the content of the classic era of Everquest. We strive not only to be the first to down bosses, but to cockblock other people, with more zergs, and with more pathetic people than any other organization attempting to do what we do. Inglourious Basterds adhere strictly not only to shit on the server, but to a strict internal code of douchebaggery and lots of mountain dews, which shapes how we play the game. Our member pool is fed largely from the welfare center, and we do not recruit people with friends nor familiy - this being said, we encourage our members to openly gank, screw or zergrush any individuals who show promise to raids or other guild groups. While we strive to be the "vision of sad pathetic dumb lewt whores" on Project 1999 in terms of our ethics and our non existant relations with the servers population, a 'family guild' we are not; we are dirty cheaters, and we are not what most people would call 'normal.' Show us respect and you'll get nothing, but we'd rather you give us reason to guildwar.

Sorry, thats actually really funny :p I agree with Hasbin.

GM's and trans forced a rotation on us.

Was just GM's, we didn;t have anything to do with picking the rotation btw. Wenai popped in at naggy and manually joined our guild and yours and told both sides how it was going to be and that it was final. You have to remember that we are in their sandbox.

Just saying it wasn't our idea for the rotation. Im outtie