are wizards gimped?

[neem]

Hey all, just found P99 and I was thinking of playing a wizard but after doing a lot of research it seems that wizards are gimped in classic?

wizards seem to be one of the least played classes

from what i've been reading, why play a wizard when druids can port, nuke almost as much as a wizard, on top of that, they have utility and buffs.

and a mage, who can solo and farm a lot better?

I remember wizards getting better in kunark, but thats still a while away, so is there really no point in playing a wiz right now??

[Zordana]

ever got hit with an icecomet? :)

[Yellow]

To be honest more wizards would be great, they certainly are not gimped... they have some nasty DPS and they port... how can they get any better? i would be playing one atm but i wanted to make a troll SK as my main then level a wizzy :]

[neem]

ever got hit with an icecomet? :)

druids have a DD that does 900+ dmg. the difference is around 200 dmg, is it worth the difference?

[Yellow]

dont be the Borg of DROODS

[neem]

are wizards able to farm?

[Yellow]

I dont see why any class couldnt heh

[Zordana]

druid have nukes that do around 600 dmg.. ice comet does 1100+..

[Examino]

I'm playing a 31 wiz right now.

it does get discouraging when I see a lower level magician soloing an entire room in HK while I can barely kill an even con, and when I do i'll be completely OOM.


then you have druids, who are a dime a dozen on this server.

sometimes its hard to get a group and i don't really have the option to solo =/

going to stick with it for a while longer and see how it is.

[siinge]

wizards are pretty junky on p99 and in classic

granted ice comet is dope, instant refresh on nukes is pretty dope but wizards are trash

why?

1-49 your dps is lacking a mage can out dps you 24/7 all day, you sit alot, most wizards afk ninja in groups due to the high med rate and abuse it.

No familiar, harvest, kunark spells

they shouldnt even have there ae snare, that didnt come out till kunark so... wtf

even still most classes can out dps a wizard once they blow there mana bar they are crap, there is no FT items yet, almost anything else has better utility and dps than them, there unresistable or low resist nukes dont come out till kunark

other than being one of the few wizards here for porting to do trash on planes overall there gimpy but all guilds want them because there are none yet and dont realize how crappy they are.

truth

mage dps > wiz dps even at 50 here all day everyday

when kunark comes out things will be different but so will alot of things

[Examino]

Wow...

looks like i'll be turning the wiz into a permanent porter :confused:

[Zordana]

well wizies are better DPS in raids, thats cause mages are busy makin rods :)

[Skope]

pretty certain wizzies do get an AE snare in classic, in fact i think i've seen it used. Therefore all you'd need is jboots or SoW potions, some int gear and quad-kite your pretty little ass off.

[mitic]

wizards nuke cast timer is faster overal, ratio is better, lures in kunark

there is plenty wizards can do better than any other caster dps classes

other than that..yea they r boring in pve, for me at least.

[Pikle]

Wizards are high dps but are very dependent on mana... like most caster classes. As a druid personally I could never out dps a wizard. Druids are more of a utility class. Wizards are the best class for finishing mobs fast, it makes a big difference. Mages do more dps only because the pet. Mages nukes are near the same dps while lvling up but the higher a wizard gets the more difference there is their nuke dmg. Wizards are the only class that can port to several places, which include Sky and Hate. At lvl 49 a wizard can almost 1 shot 35-39 mobs. As a druid even in solb fighting a kobold it takes me a few nukes.

Wizards are no where near gimp, they are a very powerful class. But for that power they are very tough lvling up, especially solo. I honestly don't remember when they got quad snare, I always remember them having it. Playing a wizard is well worth it imo, they aren't really my personal style. But if you can actually lvl them up it's so worth it. And Wizards are even more useful in kunark/velious because having a few wizards per raid will up your dps by insane numbers. And in situations where you need to insta kill something, wizards can do it faster than anyone!

[jettoki]

wizards are pretty junky on p99 and in classic ...

1-49 your dps is lacking a mage can out dps you 24/7 all day, you sit alot, most wizards afk ninja in groups due to the high med rate and abuse it.

Evidence?

No familiar, harvest, kunark spells

Familiars and Harvest added little to the class. Lures were post-50, so how are they relevant?

they shouldnt even have there ae snare, that didnt come out till kunark so... wtf

Bonds of Force is pre-Kunark. Get your facts straight.

other than being one of the few wizards here for porting to do trash on planes overall there gimpy but all guilds want them because there are none yet and dont realize how crappy they are.

truth

Gibberish?

mage dps > wiz dps even at 50 here all day everyday

Rogue DPS > Warrior DPS. So Warriors suck, right?

:rolleyes:

Wizards serve several purposes in a classic group.


Late-fight burst damage to kill runners and casters
Chainable, NON-BOLT elemental nukes (unlike Mages)
Root and AoE Snare for CC and kiting
Tishan's Clash (cheap, quick-casting stun)
DPS is independent of pets (big win vs. AOE bosses)
Teleports to evil-friendly locations and Planes (unlike Druids)


In short, groups benefit from having a skilled Wizard, and the class is highly desirable in raiding guilds. They are plenty differentiated from Druids and Mages.

Just takes some patience to play. :)

[Pikle]

Jettoki hit it right on the head it seems like! I kept thinking aoe snare was before Kunark but I didn't play a wizard up past 29 till after kunark launched. Wizards are sick, learn it!

[Elleve]

This thread made me happy I made a wizzie. I used to play ranger and monk so im actually pleased with the laid back role when grouping for a change :)

[fastboy21]

the wizard v. mage balance is a tricky one...

(forgetting ports) the mage definitely has a bit of an edge in classic. wizard dps can out match them, but only in short bursts.

in kunark, wizards get more of a niche because burst dps has a real place on raids...AND wizards get the lure line of spells which make them significantly better then other dps casters on many encounters.

by velious, the mage is basically a mod rod and coh bitch. the wizard gets dragonbane and giantbane, again making them much more useful than other dps castes on many encounters.

the mage and druid is an easy starting class in classic, but wiz gets its chance to outshine them.

[Omnimorph]

Wizards do get better with age :p there is no doubt about that. Sunstrike in kunark is a beast.

Wizards are very useful, but yes, they are totally mana dependent as they don't have a pet etc. But then the same could be said about druids or clerics. Pet classes were always the most preferred in classic, but that's why the later expansions started helping out the other classes.

Shammys got torpor in velious, wizzies get ridiculously awesome nukes in kunark (PB AE's for AE groups are awesome). So, yeah. A wizard is still good in classic, and they'll get better :p

[odizzido]

Wizards overall are one of the weaker classes. Instead of making a long post I will just put some points down

The bad
1)Lowest sustained DPS of the DPS classes under most conditions


The good
1)Root for CC.
2)High burst damage(a good wiz will save a decent amount of mana to burn down targets quickly during harder battles)
3)DD with spell interrupt built in for fighting casters. Spells like force shock, thunder strike, force strike. Plus the clash line.
4)Ports.


Of course when looking at a mage, the bad is gone and they can do points 2 and 3 fairly well.




Anyways wizards are pretty weak in classic, but played well they can be at least okay. Especially if you are in a place where you are fighting many casters.

[Striiker]

druids have a DD that does 900+ dmg. the difference is around 200 dmg, is it worth the difference?

The difference is 1) Mana pool and 2) Mana cost. Wizards are much more efficient and capable when it comes to unleashing damage.

[Gadrel Amon]

I put together and run experience groups every day. When I'm looking for a dps a wizard is my first choice, a rogue my second. When played right a wizard's dps is sick. The only thing that approaches it is a twinked rogue.

[jettoki]

Gadrel has the right of it. When you invite a skilled Wizard into your group, expect to see mob health drop a lot faster - especially when it matters most. Caster mobs that would normally be spitting out hundreds of damage are usually taken down in a few seconds.

Sustained DPS is important, but burst DPS will save you from wipes time after time. I cannot begin to tell you how many times my Wizard saved his groups in classic. The healer is OOM, the tank is nearly dead, and things start to run or scatter and attack the cloth-wearers.

Conflag! Conflag! Tishan's! Ice Comet! Everything is dead in about 10 seconds. It's always hilarious to see your group standing there dumbstruck like, "What just happened? We survived?!?"

[Striiker]

People are getting it right. Wizards, as with most classes, need someone who is skilled to play them. Yes, you'll sit meditating a lot but you'll also help the group when it counts most (especially when you have clarity on you).
1) Casters. Wizards can take these guys down fast. With knock-back spells, stuns, and massive DD, a wizard can save the group downtime (killing healer mobs or damage type casting mobs quickly).
2) Runners. a Wizard can finish these guys off before they get near their friends.
3) Evacuate. Save your group from a wipe by yanking them all out to a safer place.
4) Teleport. Get your group (and friends) to where they need to go quickly.

I played a wizard to 50 before Kunark came out and I never felt gimped. I did see a lot of complaining from others which led to the mudflation of adding features to Wizards, nerfing abilities, and enhancing other classes to compensate.

[xorbier]

It's funny to hear all the mages bashing wizards. :)

Keep thinking wizards are an underpowered class, it's quite amusing. The fact that they are one of the highest demanded dps classes in raids should speak for itself. Clearly some of you have forgotten kunark and velious. What's even funnier are the Mages, Necros and druids making comments. Personally I'd rather be nuking then spending time being a mana battery, making rods, or spot healing during an encounter. That's just me though.

Tell me a group that's more powerful than 1 enchanter and 5 wizards. I challenge you.

[Skaff]

Tell me a group that's more powerful than 1 enchanter and 5 wizards. I challenge you.

Well you obviously baited me to answer this question... 1 enchanter and 5 mages! :)

I played the wizard quote a bit on live (more luclin->pop) and still had complaints when it came to grouping and generally leveling in content. I could not offer as much consistent damage as a mage but I did bring other utilities to the table (which have already been covered). A wizard will shine of they make use of these additional tools.

Will I take a mage over a wizard in a group situation? It really depends in my opinion. Am I going to be in an area which is fairly open and easy to escape if shit hits the fan? Sure bring the mage. Am I going to be going somewhere deep in a dungeon and very few groups are in the area? I might bring a wizard first.

However it is impossible to ignore the power that mages bring in the current era of the game. Pets throw out huge sums of dps and nukes are thrown in on top of it. Also the need of lure based nukes is less needed. The wizard is one class that evolved over time.

[Skope]

It's funny to hear all the mages bashing wizards. :)

Keep thinking wizards are an underpowered class, it's quite amusing. The fact that they are one of the highest demanded dps classes in raids should speak for itself. Clearly some of you have forgotten kunark and velious. What's even funnier are the Mages, Necros and druids making comments. Personally I'd rather be nuking then spending time being a mana battery, making rods, or spot healing during an encounter. That's just me though.

Tell me a group that's more powerful than 1 enchanter and 5 wizards. I challenge you.

You have to understand why necros were forced into being mana batteries. They are consistently the #1 DPS class in the game, but because in raid situations the clerics are spamming the 10 second mana-burning complete heals, the necros ability to regen mana at an uncanny rate and spread it around tops even the fact that they can out-DPS any rogue/monk/wizzy in the raid.

Though, with all that said, my first char here was a wizard before i went necro. I've never leveled a quad-kiting class and always love seeing big numbers flash across my screen. Sitting down to med for long periods of time can actually be a benefit, depending on whether or not you tend to afk a lot. But I ultimately wanted a class that can farm for twink gear and PL extremely well (necro offers probably the best PLing in the game, move over druids) and a class that I can go afk for 5-20mins on a moment's call without worrying about a CR later.

[Bumamgar]

In true classic (pre-2002) raiding, Necros were very gimped due to DoT stacking issues (ie: they didn't stack with other necros). This meant that having more than one Necro along on a raid was a waste, unless you could put them to other uses (ie: mana battery).

Prior to the patch on Sept 2nd, 2002, (right before PoP), The same DoT cast on a target by multiple players would not stack. I'm not sure how it is setup here on p99, but this, coupled with pet agro issues pre-'pet hold', caused a lot of raid leaders to favor Wizards vs. Mages and Necros. Since there aren't any stacking issues with straight up nukes, and they don't depend on pets for DPS, Wizards were considered the best form of caster DPS for raiding prior to this patch. A token Necro and Mage brought along for utility was often it :)

[Skope]

I've tried the DoT stacking, and it actually works here, with the exception of the snare-line, though not sure about asystole :P I do know that both fire, disease and poison do stack

[Bumamgar]

Yeah, even after the DoT-stacking patch of 2002, various dot/debuff combo spells still didn't stack, only pure DoTs. For example, Dooming Darkness (http://www.wrathfulinquisition.com/effect_view.php?effnum=452) wouldn't stack if cast by multiple players, since it has a snare component. But Ignite Blood (http://www.wrathfulinquisition.com/effect_view.php?effnum=6) would stack (after the patch), since it's just a straight DoT with no debuff.

I suspect Asystole (http://www.wrathfulinquisition.com/effect_view.php?effnum=1508) does not stack, due to the STR/AC debuff, but I could be wrong.

[xorbier]

We've clearly established Rangers are the top dps! :)

You all have made some good points. I was just responding to the general "Wizards are gimped/suck" statements which were simply absurd.

Don't get me wrong i love mages and necros and enjoy having them in my groups. I just hate when people generalize and make false statements to build up their class.

It is true mages are OP in classic, but when I decided to create a wizard as one of my characters I was thinking more long term for the Kunark and Velious releases and the role i would play in raids. I personally find the role of a wizard more fun on raids and thus why i have one.

I'd love to see actual data that supports what some people are saying though about wizards having one of the lowest sustained/overall dps. I know in my groups i do at least 1/3 or more of the dmg per mob and I find it hard to believe.

"The bad
1)Lowest sustained DPS of the DPS classes under most conditions"

Data to support this!?!??!?!?!?!

[Gandite]

OP I'm a wizard so let me dispell some of this horseshit.

I have always consistently been able to out DPS a mage. This usually happens when I'm single or quad-kiting and some mage walks up looking for some mobs. I've never had a problem stealing my kill back from a mage.

The other thing about mages is they are great while you level, but once you get your mage to 50 you might as well go ahead and roll a class that is useful for something other than leveling to 50. A mage is great at leveling himself and farming crap to give to the character you actually want to play.

The life of a wizard is pretty rough. I've died countless times doing silly stuff. I've also died countless times helping people, soloing, grouping etc etc. Soloing as a wizard is not impossible however it does carry a lot of risks. Quadkiting is also very possible but quite difficult even with jboots and a levitation cloak. I don't have my temp flux staff so it could be easier, but I know it won't be by much.

Should you roll a wizard? Probably not.

[Weekapaug]

I played a wiz in the original classic era and, it was pretty tough going, but like anything in EQ one man's hell is another's fun. I had a great time with the class and, even though conventional wisdom was that mages way out DPSed us, I never had problems with groups anymore than anyone else did at the time.

Ironicly, the thing that put me off of the class and caused a reroll around the time Kunark came out and I was closing in on 50 was the fact that I pretty much had him maxxed out INT and as much +mana as I could get with readily accessible gear (200 was the stat cap then...here?) and anything better I either couldnt afford to buy and certainly never could win a roll for. I succumbed to "grass is always greener-ism" because of bad luck, basicly...the whole time I never could win rolls or afford the few upgrades I could get, my melee friends were having the time of their lives upgrading every slot every other week, it seemed. This got old after months and months....I think the best item I ever won a roll for on that toon was a Sup Pack in Guk and 3 people in the group already had one....On a toon that had 90 days /played on his first birthday. So while I had fun playing him, EQ is a gear-centered game and never getting any useful gear really knocks the fun off fast...

So I twinked and rolled up a SK who remained my main until luclin. I said "Ironicly" above, because, while I loved my SK also, I got him levelled up just in time for the dark days of hybrids during Kunark, when it became known that we brought a 40% exp pentalty to the group. Plus the perception at the time was that warriors were better group tanks than knights anyway, so why would any sane group bother with them when exp was at a crawl as it was? Meanwhile, wizzes were really coming into their own during that era, and even getting OP abilities nerfed, if I recall correctly.

I get into all of that, in case any of it sounds familiar....If you aren't enjoying your wiz, really have a look at why. Is it really the class, or just where it fits into the game at this particular time? Or some other reason like my bad luck that just exaserbates the fact that classic era isn't really the golden age of wizzes in this game, but little more than that? Regardless, I would examine it from a personal gameplay standpoint rather than comparisons to other classes. Other classes are always going to do things better and other players of the same class may also...What's important is how much fun you are having with it.

[Bumamgar]

XP penalties on hybrids and other classes never affected 'the group'. They only affected the player.

[Weekapaug]

XP penalties on hybrids and other classes never affected 'the group'. They only affected the player.

That may or may not be true, but the perception at the time, at least on Bertoxx, was that they did. My hind quarter is still sore from sitting around LFG while all that was going on.

Actually, now I'm going to have to go look that up....it's amazing the trivia we can retain for 10 years about a computer game, yet not remember half the grocery list 20 mins after leaving the house, eh? lol

[Hoggen]

Hybrids did nerf group exp for much of classic. Wizards sucked until Kunark when they were sought after by the brave who put together AE exp groups. Their nukes were resisted too much and the mana requirements were too high to make them anywhere near as useful as druids with manastones. I played a wizard till PoP and finally gave up. They didn't do crap for them till SoF, then they made them retarded with instanukes. Classic wiz is basically a port mule with limited utility in AE situations and for dragons in Velious with Dragonbane.

My experience with mages was only by observation. They didn't seem to be much in demand for groups, likely because of pet control issues, and without a pet, wizards were better, but most preferred melee groups with the occasional ench or druid that knew their class, which was extremely rare for druids. Most druids nuked till they died and never memmed a heal. It was the class of idiots.

[Weekapaug]

Actually, now I'm going to have to go look that up...

I knew I wasn't losing my mind. From the producer's letter dated 01/14/01:


I think that it would be appropriate to say that most players are aware that there are different experience requirements for advancement based upon the race and class you choose to play. Ogres, for instance, require more experience to level than Halflings, and Shadowknights require more experience to level than Warriors. As such, an Ogre Shadowknight requires FAR more experience to level than a Halfling Warrior does. What some people have discovered is that when in a group, everyone shares in this penalty. Before getting into our plan, I think that its important to talk about what our goals were regarding experience penalties and the group sharing in that penalty.

When EverQuest player characters were being designed, it was immediately apparent that some races and classes would be more powerful than others given versatility and other factors. Later, it came to light that the concept of being "more powerful" began to break down at the upper levels, given that everyone capped at the same level. We could not let any one race or class be immensely more powerful than another at that final point, as it would essentially put parts of the game off limits to those who chose the less powerful classes. While we did a good job of making races vary in power, but not so much as to be unbalancing, the same could not be said for classes. Still, though classes would be roughly equivalent in regard to the compelling reason to play them through versatility, the experience penalties were kept.

In regards to the sharing of the experience penalty, it was apparent in beta, before the penalty was shared, that those playing characters without an experience penalty leveled faster than those that did. It was obvious that this would occur, but it was to the extreme that a group of friends, all playing together, would become separated to the point that they could no longer group efficiently in the mid to upper-mid levels. So we chose to distribute experience in the group on the basis of the total experience of each member rather than the level, in order to keep groups together.

As such, a level 20 Troll SK, having more experience total than a Human Wizard of the same level, would get more experience from each kill, while the total experience for the kill was unchanged. Essentially, the SK would take part of the Wizard's share were everything distributed equally to begin with.

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/editorial/011401_EQ_Producers_letter.html

It also mentions a racial penalty that was shared with the group also. Completely forgot about that.

[odizzido]

"The bad
1)Lowest sustained DPS of the DPS classes under most conditions"

Data to support this!?!??!?!?!?!

I don't have hard data, but as someone who has played a mage, necro, and wiz to 40+ this is what I have noticed.

[Omnimorph]

I knew I wasn't losing my mind. From the producer's letter dated 01/14/01:


I think that it would be appropriate to say that most players are aware that there are different experience requirements for advancement based upon the race and class you choose to play. Ogres, for instance, require more experience to level than Halflings, and Shadowknights require more experience to level than Warriors. As such, an Ogre Shadowknight requires FAR more experience to level than a Halfling Warrior does. What some people have discovered is that when in a group, everyone shares in this penalty. Before getting into our plan, I think that its important to talk about what our goals were regarding experience penalties and the group sharing in that penalty.

When EverQuest player characters were being designed, it was immediately apparent that some races and classes would be more powerful than others given versatility and other factors. Later, it came to light that the concept of being "more powerful" began to break down at the upper levels, given that everyone capped at the same level. We could not let any one race or class be immensely more powerful than another at that final point, as it would essentially put parts of the game off limits to those who chose the less powerful classes. While we did a good job of making races vary in power, but not so much as to be unbalancing, the same could not be said for classes. Still, though classes would be roughly equivalent in regard to the compelling reason to play them through versatility, the experience penalties were kept.

In regards to the sharing of the experience penalty, it was apparent in beta, before the penalty was shared, that those playing characters without an experience penalty leveled faster than those that did. It was obvious that this would occur, but it was to the extreme that a group of friends, all playing together, would become separated to the point that they could no longer group efficiently in the mid to upper-mid levels. So we chose to distribute experience in the group on the basis of the total experience of each member rather than the level, in order to keep groups together.

As such, a level 20 Troll SK, having more experience total than a Human Wizard of the same level, would get more experience from each kill, while the total experience for the kill was unchanged. Essentially, the SK would take part of the Wizard's share were everything distributed equally to begin with.


Last time I invite an ogre / troll SK to my group! it's gonna be me, halfling cleric, halfling rogue, halfling everything else!

Interesting post btw :)

[Bumamgar]

I had forgotten about that, good find!

[Weekapaug]

Interesting post btw :)

Without Google I never would have found it...If you go look at the patch message from when they made the changes it doesn't even list the changes to the experience system...It just references back to the producer's letter and is kind of weird about it. Don't remember seeing anything like that before or since.

They just revamped the entire exp system, something they swore they'd never touch, and it was almost like they were pouting and didn't want to talk about it or something....Such classic Verant...reminded me of an ex gf....ALWAYS right the first time....Like Alchemy and barbarian shield graphics were "working as intended" for almost two years...Untill they actually bothered to listen to a thousand people and actually have a look at them. You just know one of those dorks kicked a hole in the wall the day of that patch.

Funny thing is, I got all warm and fuzzy yesterday when I saw "old" Freeport for the first time here....When I saw the name of the producer on that letter last night I kind of cringed. Of all the things to get nostalgic about from classic EQ, Abashi isn't one of them.

Wonder what ever happend to that jackass. I wish I were a bigger man, but I have to admit, I kind of hope his karma caught up with him and it was really really bad. LOL That guy is the only person I've ever seen....anywhere....who actually seemed to relish being overtly abusive to his paying customers and still managed to keep his job, somehow. I mean, one time he put up on the boards a compliation of bannings he got to do in person in game, most of them were people who just said extreme things about him personally on random message boards that could be construed as threats. I better watch it or he might find this and report me to the FBI....apparently he did that too...He bragged about it on the boards. LOL Such a complete douche nozzle.

I had completely forgotten about all that.

[calaxa]

I think the perception that wizards are gimped comes from a variety of factors:

First, a wizard requires more skill than a mage or necro. Before people flame me for this comment, think carefully. A good wizard is always tethering their aggro and mana balance. Their fast nukes can cause an inexperienced player to nuke excessively causing their ultimate demise. A mage does not suffer this same fate. They send pet in and their cast time is a lot longer. They will usually not have time to generate the hate a wizard can. A wizard is not as simple as /pet attack, cast nuke, etc. A player has to think carefully whether or not this is the mob they need to burn down or is it better to do some damage and saving their mana for that nasty pull when they need to kill several mobs or possibly evac the group.

Another contributing factor to the gimpness of wizards is their bursty dps. Yes a wizard can burn down a single mob in the shortest amount of time (except maybe a team of SKs HTing a mob, though I recall this being nerfed too at some point) but because of mana limitations, their dps will suffer over a sustained duration of time. The mage and necro will not have this problem as their pet will continue to do damage even if they themselves are out of mana. Factor in the damage shield that a mage can cast and that damage is also independant of existing mana once it is cast.

In a raid situation, the necro and mage have other options for their mana. The mage functions as a rod summoner and the necro as mana battery. The wizard has no other alternative but to be dps. The pet issues on raid mobs has already been mentioned and without pet hold, many encounters are preferred not to have a pet so the mage and necro are forced to their alternative role. I have seen many mages and necros complain of this over the years but unfortunately, this is the best use of their mana (and was always the case until rods were nerfed during PoP era and twitching became trivial once cheal no longer became the preferred method of healing).

The last factor I can think of is, because wizards take some more skill than a necro or mage to play, having a less than adequate wizard in your group is very obvious. We all have seen the wizard that ninja afks to no end, the wizard who panic gates, the wizard who overaggros and kills himself, or worse yet, the cleric who goess oom trying to save aforementioned wizard. The pet classes we're comparing wizards to are a lot more forgiving in terms of skill. That is not to say wizards are so hard to play but just require a little more thought. This is also not a bash on mages and necros as there are plenty of skilled players playing those classes as well.

[Skaff]

Managing your mana and threat as a wizard is hardly something I consider as being an element of skill. I classify it more in the "common sense" area.

[Thac0]

Managing your mana and threat as a wizard is hardly something I consider as being an element of skill. I classify it more in the "common sense" area.And yet it's an ability most people lack, hence the abundance of mages :D

[eqholmes]

And yet it's an ability most people lack, hence the abundance of mages :D

Not even close to the reason why there are more mages than wizards. People pick mages right now because there dps is sick there pets are extremely useful on all raid encounters, soloing you can level 8x the speed of a wizard. Wizards cant farm crap compared to mages. Want me to go on? Playing a Wizard isnt difficult at all, sit med at 40% nuke sit med at 40% nuke, hell maybe go all out and do 2 nukes on 1 mob?!!? Once Wizards group up and ae farm they will own, but at this point you can level a 50 mage in a month and then gear a wizard and level him to 50 before we see kunark.

Holmes 50 nerco DA
Gretzky 24 ranger DA

[Thac0]

People pick mages right now because there dps is sickdefine sick.

there pets are extremely useful on all raid encountersYeah you sound like you raided alot.

soloing you can level 8x the speed of a wizard.How did you come to that number? Pity wizards cant kill multiple mobs like you can. Oh wait...

Wizards cant farm crap compared to mages.Mkay. I guess theres no way for a wizard to make money, if only they had some ability that others needed, if not a heal..a way to ferry people through mystical portals or something to that effect...hmmm..

Want me to go on? Please do, I need a good laugh from a sperger.

Playing a Wizard isnt difficult at all, sit med at 40% nuke sit med at 40% nuke, hell maybe go all out and do 2 nukes on 1 mob?!!?No Tishans? No Evac? No bonds of force? No CC root? No wonder you have an abysmal view of the class if that was all you did on your wizard.

Once Wizards group up and ae farm they will own, but at this point you can level a 50 mage in a month and then gear a wizard and level him to 50 before we see kunark.Read the rest of the thread and get back to us. Wizards provide burst damage on command with no cool-down nukes with decent efficiency.

Don't get upset that the wizard takes more than a /pet attack /cast 1 macro to play. There plenty of incentive to be one as others in the thread pointed out.:p

[Skaff]

And yet it's an ability most people lack, hence the abundance of mages :D

Yeah, I agree its not the reason that mages are much more abundant. The concept of threat management is beyond many in the game (including mages!).

[Thac0]

Yeah, I agree its not the reason that mages are much more abundant. The concept of threat management is beyond many in the game (including mages!).Aye, but kinda funny that someone kinda responded in such a spectacular fashion however(eqholmes). Pretty much typified the kind of player I was talking about.

[Skaff]

Well I do agree with him on some levels with the wizard. I played one on live for a LONG time and pretty much a majority of the playtime follows the patterns he described.

I ultimately think that EQ is very simple and most classes have very few areas to actually demonstrate skill. The game follows very very hard rules and knowing how the mechanics of the game works is where you actually see the "skill" take place.

[Bradoshado]

This is an MMO...playing a class isn't hard...ever.

None of the classes in this game are hard to play.
You're not skilled even if you're "good" at your class cause it's super easy.

Move along.

[gruumsh]

I play an SK (ogre) now that's hard >.<

[eqholmes]

Clearly I hit a nerve, must be a wizard for sure. I dont play a mage, but as of now I would have a mage in my group over a wizard anyday. Also I'm sure Ive raided a good bit more than you, and pets are very useful on raids. But anyways sorry I hit so close to home.

[BuzWeaver]

This is were Guilds come in. I've not been in a guild where any class was not welcome to group with other members. If you're going about this solo and trying to do pickup groups you may find it discouraging.

Playing a Druid does allow me the luxury of playing Solo, however at some point it will be more advantageous to join a guild.

[guineapig]

I've read all the back and forth but honestly I'm seeing rogues doing the most DPS on raid targets on this server. Were talking about DPS over 5 minutes, not 20 seconds in those cases.