Poll: Are MR spells too difficult to resist in PvP?

[azo313]

Your honest opinion?

[Lazortag]

MR is okay but really should be made more effective, especially at higher amounts. Even when I have 194 MR people will try to spam root me because they know that the low chance of rooting me is the only way they can have a chance of killing me. At 194 MR on Live people wouldn't even try to root you because it was functionally impossible to land.

Also, earth pet root needs to be fixed. I don't know if this was ever formally bug reported but at your base MR it's almost unresistable, compared to regular root which seems to resist 10-20% of the time.

[SearyxTZ]

I agree.

Null already knows how I feel about his resist system.

I'm not a fan of how it has changed solo (1 on 1) pvp, where I'm going to be spending at least half of the fight using pumice stones now. In group pvp I just jump on the rooted caster.... and then probably get rooted right next to him (YESSSS, EVERYONE IS ROOTED)


People would spam CC spells in classic even with a < 5% chance of hitting them, so that should give an idea of how powerful they are. I liked how it was in classic, which was where you'd only see it land with any consistency if the player was debuffed (tashania, malo, etc) or wasn't wearing resist gear.

[Nirgon]

I believe Mr Null is well aware

[SearyxTZ]

Good thing he's a big boy and can filter through the feedback/bitching of players. :)



I think this stuff does need to be talked about a lot though, because the devs aren't going to be actually playing on the server regularly with their own code.

[William Henry Harrison]

pras nullyo

[Flunklesnarkin]

DPS votes yes



wizards vote no


amirite?

[SearyxTZ]

Wizards are stronger in solo pvp here than in classic, but from my limited experience so far I think casters get screwed even harder in group pvp - because if they get rooted they are fucked.


If I was a Wizard I would rather CC be a non factor (like it was on live) and just rely on positioning + nukes.

Maybe it's different at the high-end where people are running 150'ish MR. I don't know. I'd like to hear from those players.

[Crazycloud]

If I was a Wizard I would rather CC be a non factor (like it was on live) and just rely on positioning + nukes.

[Nirgon]

Wizards are stronger in solo pvp here than in classic, but from my limited experience so far I think casters get screwed even harder in group pvp - because if they get rooted they are fucked.


If I was a Wizard I would rather CC be a non factor (like it was on live) and just rely on positioning + nukes.

Maybe it's different at the high-end where people are running 150'ish MR. I don't know. I'd like to hear from those players.

I've been rooted many times on a first attempt at a buffed 180mr.

Crazy and broken :P.

I was in the "wait till you finish your MR" gear boat like you. Here's tellin' ya.

[Amuk]

Made several posts, Holocaust members, Troriste agreed Nihilum leader - people on all sides agree that MR is way too weak. Getting rooted with 160 mr 1/6 is silly considering theres probably 6 people in an assist train that can cc these days. Everyone casts one and its almost guarenteed to land - ppl don't even dispell focus targets on this server, just assist and spam cc/zerg.

[Nirgon]

Again, people on live didn't even bother to attempt using root in PvP unless someone was naked and buffless.

[Runya]

Is fine....maybe give a small bonus at 100...then a lil more at 150......lil more at 200.Dont make sv Magic a useless stat.This is classic

[Runya]

Im sure a wizard would rather root you then rely on postioning...again i only have 100 sv magic and resist most roots~ Classic people got rooted...it happens.It does land that on me that often....

[SearyxTZ]

Did anyone actually want resists to be less effective than they were on live?

[steaks6]

voted no just to make you mad

i have 60 MR on my war i get rooted snared and blown up regardless

[Dullah]

Ya this is a known inconsistency with live pvp. Said it a dozen times, shouldn't need more than 90mr to resist roots, stuns and snares etc. Hopefully it will be changed.

[Marglar]

i'd prefer it to be more like it was on live, where roots, snares and stuns were fairly easy to resist once you were 90-100+ mr.

[steaks6]

ill bet you would marglar

[SearyxTZ]

nice sig steaks

[Humerox]

I'm sure a wizard would rather root you then rely on positioning...

I would but it ain't right...

[Nirgon]

Fair or not is bull shit, make it classic.

I advocated this change since day 1 like a mad man and I'm a caster.

It's not classic and very stupid.

You're lucky that casters (except mages lol) cant' cast through walls.

Btw - lightning bolt should correctly be flagged as a bolt spell ; ). wink wink wink.

[azo313]

Agreed. Make it classic. I don't understand why this is supposed to be "classic EQ" yet for no good reason resists are completely changed. The majority of the player base wants classic EQ resists, and this poll confirms it. Why not give the players what they want?

[Dlardlar]

Checkraise resisted tons of root snares couldn't land once castes about 20 times

[Dullah]

When i can resist roots with 120 mr at least half the time, "red"99 might become a pvp server.

[Null]

When i can resist roots with 120 mr at least half the time, "red"99 might become a pvp server.

120MR gives you a 72% resist rate vs. root. Does that mean that Red99 is like, mega real?

[Dullah]

Last 3 pvp engagements, I was rooted, snared and whirled with 120. Just so frequent its disappointing and leaves me not wanting to pvp. Whirl being the worst which ruins the fight and leaves you broken.

On live I'd have stopped at 80-90mr and then started focusing on other resists in general pvp.

[SearyxTZ]

120MR gives you a 72% resist rate vs. root

On live this bought you 90+%

Classic Zek servers most people in full resist gear probably had under 7% chance to get hit with CC, although I'd guess that a small window was there no matter what where the curve plateaus (say 2-3%).

That resist system was fine, seeing as people still used it in pvp (since it is spammable + EQ pvp lasts forever) just for the off chance to stick it.


It's a worse game when you force in CC, and pumice/jboots are even more meta than they used to be. I haven't done Big Ass Raid PvP yet, but that assist-train-on-the-rooted-guy Amuk posted about sounds pretty shitty.

Hell even as a melee, I don't want to kill someone because he got spammed with root. The PvP I remember was I had to glue to people to kill them. Root was usually only a factor if I was going against enchanter or 60 shaman.

[Jirr]

Assist train on the rooted/snared guy is what we ended up doing on TZ during Kunark/Velious. Granted, only 2 or 3 guilds ever discovered the wonders of the /assist command so you could run around and never get snared/rooted if you stuck to pvping newbs leveling up.

[Dullah]

We used your MR as a percentage to resist snare/root as rule of thumb. With 80mr it was generally about 20% chance to have CC spells land on you. Above 90mr, it was literally like 90%+.

[Null]

Last 3 pvp engagements, I was rooted, snared and whirled with 120. Just so frequent its disappointing and leaves me not wanting to pvp. Whirl being the worst which ruins the fight and leaves you broken.

On live I'd have stopped at 80-90mr and then started focusing on other resists in general pvp.

It is literally impossible to get whirled with 120MR, its something like 103% chance of being resisted.

[Kringe]

120MR gives you a 72% resist rate vs. root. Does that mean that Red99 is like, mega real?

72% at 120 is extremely low, it should be more along the lines of 90+% like Searyx etc say... Its difficult for some classes to reach that pinnacle pre kunark (non plate/chain wearing classes of course)... That coupled with stun should be tweaked alittle.

[Nirgon]

It's the point that not one person casts it, but everyone opens with a root.

You have 10 chances to be rooted. Further, for some reason, I think roots that have a damage effect on them seem to land much, much more but that could just be blind luck.

Kringe also had about 110+ MR at one point and was chain stunned over and over by a charmed basilisk in lower guk live side. Stuns should be very easy to resist too. Again, another spell I never memmed unless I was clobbering a naked person (<3 Markar's Discord in Kunark).

[Dlardlar]

Druid root which had dd always landed better then enstill on my cleric in classic

[azo313]

A blue con wizard on a corpse run just killed my fully geared 50 melee three times in a row (corpse camp). Loot randed every single time with 106 MR. He landed 6 roots in total with zero resists.

PvP is officially broken.

[Jirr]

72% at 120 is extremely low, it should be more along the lines of 90+% like Searyx etc say... Its difficult for some classes to reach that pinnacle pre kunark (non plate/chain wearing classes of course)... That coupled with stun should be tweaked alittle.

72% isn't far off, just add buffs and it should be over 90%. Dispells and debuffs would bring it under 50% I am guessing?

[Dullah]

On live id often resist root/snares naked trying to get back to body with no innate mr.

[SearyxTZ]

72% is not "not too far off", unless you're talking about on paper here instead of actually being in-game where a fight with a Cleric can last half an hour and require 984 pumice stones.

It needs to be 120 MR == 90%, and curved up towards 95% around 200. That is what it was on live during this era, where people still used CC shit even at those rates. This is far more sensitive than resist rates for nukes since it drastically changes the landscape of both solo and group/raid pvp.


Also, I looked up the minimum chance to land a spell and it was 2% (in old patch notes history). They moved this up to 5% in 2004.

[Null]

72% is not "not too far off", unless you're talking about on paper here instead of actually being in-game where a fight with a Cleric can last half an hour and require 984 pumice stones.

It needs to be 120 MR == 90%, and curved up towards 95% around 200. That is what it was on live during this era, where people still used CC shit even at those rates. This is far more sensitive than resist rates for nukes since it drastically changes the landscape of both solo and group/raid pvp.


Also, I looked up the minimum chance to land a spell and it was 2% (in old patch notes history). They moved this up to 5% in 2004.

Sold.

[AppleJacks]

Have no had any issues with this. I resisted more than 12 roots from two Wizards that were yellow and red to me. I have a MR of 88 at level 37. My root, stun and blinds get resisted just as often.

[Nirgon]

No 120MR should be like 99.9% :P
90% should be like 60MR..

[Dullah]

No 120MR should be like 99.9% :P
90% should be like 60MR..

Exactly. Seriously over 80mr was for fighting enchanters or doing pve.

and just a side note, it should speak volumes that the biggest two advocates of this are both wizards ^^ who stand to gain the most by just pretending you should get rooted with 100mr. The only reason why the poll is even close is because 85% of the server is casters.

[Nirgon]

Gotta admit it's nice when you root someone and kill them with 3 ice comets. Not as satisfying as the "got you" tells might indicate though.

->it should speak volumes that the biggest two advocates of this are correct ^^

[Null]

No 120MR should be like 99.9% :P
90% should be like 60MR..

Sorry, Searyx and myself already blood oath'd this, so its 120MR for 90% and nobody can bitch about it anymore...thats the rules!

[Nirgon]

OK yeah and it doesn't break on damage / always holds for full duration, sounds awesome Null, great...

In other news, I'm gonna continue to put up fliers for that missing gnome. Lemme know how everything goes.

[Null]

OK yeah and it doesn't break on damage / always holds for full duration, sounds awesome Null, great...

In other news, I'm gonna continue to put up fliers for that missing gnome. Lemme know how everything goes.

Oh it breaks on damage Nigron.

[Dullah]

I just want to first say thanks for your work Null...

but 120mr to be 90% is no where near classic, though at this point I don't want to seem ungrateful and I'll just appreciate whatever I can get.

In response to whirl, I was obviously tashed if its impossible to land around 120mr. So it landed with 90mr, but would have been resisted naked on live 3/4 times.

[Null]

I just want to first say thanks for your work Null...

but 120mr to be 90% is no where near classic, though at this point I don't want to seem ungrateful and I'll just appreciate whatever I can get.

In response to whirl, I was obviously tashed if its impossible to land around 120mr. So it landed with 90mr, but would have been resisted naked on live 3/4 times.

Deal is off, this post violates the blood oath contract that Searyx and myself took part in.

[Harrison]

No 120MR should be like 99.9% :P
90% should be like 60MR..

Confirmed never played EQlive.

[Lovely Icecomet]

Confirmed likes the taste of man in his mouth.

[Nirgon]

Null, I am trying to make you look good dawg.

Help me

Help you

HELP! ME! HELP! YOU!

[Null]

Null, I am trying to make you look good dawg.

Help me

Help you

HELP! ME! HELP! YOU!

Alright dawg alright, we cool.

[azo313]

Well, I officially quit red server. I didn't sign up for this. I signed up for "classic." Resists are not classic, and you admit it. Yet you claim that it's "better" this way. I didn't sign up to play what you think is better. I signed up for classic EQ. Let me know when you decide to stick with the original plan and I may give it another whirl.

[Lazortag]

Well, I officially quit red server. I didn't sign up for this. I signed up for "classic." Resists are not classic, and you admit it. Yet you claim that it's "better" this way. I didn't sign up to play what you think is better. I signed up for classic EQ. Let me know when you decide to stick with the original plan and I may give it another whirl.

I think it's the whirls that got you to leave in the first place!

Sorry, somebody had to say it.

[Amuk]

I take it you rolled a pure melee? Yeah I retired my rogue - waste of time, being rooted non stop with 160 mr is meh. Just play a hybrid/caster and you'll be on an even playing field, although somewhat lame one.

[Dullah]

I take it you rolled a pure melee? Yeah I retired my rogue - waste of time, being rooted non stop with 160 mr is meh. Just play a hybrid/caster and you'll be on an even playing field, although somewhat lame one.

:(

Hopefully changes Null adds soon will bring you back to your rogue.

[Lazortag]

I take it you rolled a pure melee? Yeah I retired my rogue - waste of time, being rooted non stop with 160 mr is meh. Just play a hybrid/caster and you'll be on an even playing field, although somewhat lame one.

As someone who also plays a melee (bard), I feel there is nothing wrong with the current resist system. I regularly resist over 80% of all roots that are thrown at me with about 200 MR.

[Dullah]

As someone who also plays a melee (bard), I feel there is nothing wrong with the current resist system. I regularly resist over 80% of all roots that are thrown at me with about 200 MR.

Problem is, with 1/3 of that you'd resist more roots in classic.

[Lazortag]

Problem is, with 1/3 of that you'd resist more roots in classic.

It was a joke. I think resists should be totally classic. Anything else just discourages people from rolling melees, which hurts server diversity and makes endgame content very screwed up later on. I seriously wonder how anyone is going to kill Spiroc Lord in classic when (a) you can't charm anything up there and (b) each of the top guilds has about one active rogue/monk. The lack of pure melees is already to be expected on a pvp server, no need to exacerbate the problem even more.

[Null]

blood oath changes are coming.

[Ssleeve]

blood oath changes are coming.

If someone hasn't said it, appreciate the work your putting in.

Even if there is only 100 people playing the server it's awesome and the only MMO that can hold my attention for more then 10 minutes.

If you're ever in Maryland and want some free drinks PM me.

[Dullah]

blood oath changes are coming.

<3!