EQ as it should have been?

[JerseyFresh609]

While I would like to make a poll for this, not sure I can. Anyway I'm wondering how people feel about the server. You should fall into one of the following categories:

1. Classic - I want everything as close to classic as possible. Remove item links, etc.

2. As is - I'm happy with the way things are and trust those running the server to decide what's what.

3. Classic+ - As close to classic as possible but including things that improve the overall experience without affecting the game play: like item links, UI mods, Luclin Models, High res textures, etc..

4. As it should have been - Add/Remove things based on the best overall play experience even if these things affect game play (Though not in a MAJOR way), such as everything mentioned in 3 in addition to: removing xp penalties, adding chat channels, un-nerfing pet xp penalties, etc..


I personally fall in to the 4th category. I feel like things like pets stealing xp because it's "classic" even though it was reverted back on live because it was a bad decision is silly. XP penalties do nothing but make it harder on people and discourage people from playing or grouping with certain class/race combos. Chat Channels are just useful, they may cause EC to slow down but it's still player to player trades/haggling it's not like the bazaar that completely kills that. Anyway that's just my 2 cents, how do you all feel?

Also to those of you in charge, keep up the good work! I love this server and though I don't agree with all your decisions, I do appreciate that you all take your free time to help others enjoy themselves, for free. I've enjoyed the past couple months here and hope to enjoy many more.

[maahes]

I am very grateful for the server. I fucking love this game.

[Hitchens]

I am very grateful for the server. I fucking love this game.

[tristantio]

There already are things which were changed (even though they were classic) for balance reasons - I believe the lifetap earring is one such example.

I too would enjoy a more custom classic experience (custom zones/dungeon that fall inline with classic difficulty/functionality) but I believe the vision for p99 is to remain as classic as possible except in rare cases.

[RiffDaemon]

I'd like to fall into just one category, but I'm really a combination of 1 and 2. I love the server the way it is right now, and I want it to continue getting as classic as possible. For instance, I love item links and I don't hesitate to use them; but if they ever get rid of them, it'll be fine by me and I'll be more than happy to type out stats for an item in my auctions.

[webrunner5]

I think I prefer the 4th category also. I have been big against the Pet XP thingy and the Hybrid penality. Both Sony mistakes that are on here. Why continue a known mistake.

[Extunarian]

1.

Spell sets and spell bar menu was much tougher for casters to lose than item links, and we all got over that.

[LizardNecro]

4. As it should have been - Add/Remove things based on the best overall play experience even if these things affect game play (Though not in a MAJOR way), such as everything mentioned in 3 in addition to: removing xp penalties, adding chat channels, un-nerfing pet xp penalties, etc..

[eadric]

I think I prefer the 4th category also. I have been big against the Pet XP thingy and the Hybrid penality. Both Sony mistakes that are on here. Why continue a known mistake.

I'm in the 4th category also. These were things that never made sense, never added any enjoyment to the game for anyone, were eventually changed on live, and have really hindered players from enjoying certain classes here on p99. Certain class epics being introduced in their "Classic" broken format is another example of where things should have been changed.

That being said, I very much enjoy playing here. It's the best classic EQ experience I've found.

[Galaa]

I belong to the 4th.

I love EQ classic, but some things can be changed to make it a better experience for players.

When Verant started EQ, it was pretty much a trial and error for them. Overtime they learnt from their mistakes and changed certain things.

We don't have to make the same mistakes as they did. Some improvements can be made to the server even if it's not really classic imo.

[Gert Groinwounder]

Spell sets and spell bar menu was much tougher for casters to lose than item links, and we all got over that.

There's not a day that goes by that I don't wish for spell sets to be reinstated...:(

[Malrubius]

If I wanted #4 (which I don't), why would I play on a server like this one that won't have those things?

Every other server has that stuff, so it's not like there is a lack of choices.

Besides, don't (some?) XP penalties go away in Velious anyway? I honestly don't know, but it may help some people who are strongly against them.

[Extunarian]

Besides, don't (some?) XP penalties go away in Velious anyway? I honestly don't know, but it may help some people who are strongly against them.

Racial penalties stay, class penalties go.

[triad]

1 but 2 works im a true classic fan and q more on the pet - try being a sk

[Grozmok]

I am very grateful for the server. I fucking love this game.

[Rooj]

I too, love this server, as it's given me a chance to experience things I didn't get to on live. I still wish I had discovered P99 earlier, since I've never been even close to end-game pre-Kunark. For example I never really EXPed in Mistmoore on live, but on here I've spent a lot of time there and it turns out it is one of my absolute favorite zones in the game.

Anyway, I do sort of miss things like LFG channel and worldwide Trade/Auction channel. I recall my Live server having a channel specifically for Ragefire rotation which ended up also being a pretty decent social environment (could easily be replicated through IRC). I don't recall when item links were added but I think it would be kind of bleh to take them away this far in.

Personally even though it would take some work, I'd love to see things like the additional races and classes as well as AA added into a classic environment.

[Flunklesnarkin]

If I wanted #4 (which I don't), why would I play on a server like this one that won't have those things?

Every other server has that stuff, so it's not like there is a lack of choices.

Besides, don't (some?) XP penalties go away in Velious anyway? I honestly don't know, but it may help some people who are strongly against them.

[Zorpa]

I'm in the #4 camp.

[Hitchens]

Personally even though it would take some work, I'd love to see things like the additional races and classes as well as AA added into a classic environment.

Beastlord class was pretty cool, shame it had to come with Vah Shir.

[eqravenprince]

4. As it should have been - Add/Remove things based on the best overall play experience even if these things affect game play (Though not in a MAJOR way), such as everything mentioned in 3 in addition to: removing xp penalties, adding chat channels, un-nerfing pet xp penalties, etc..


Everyone has a different opinion on what gives the best overall play experience. Everyone who plays here agrees that classic EQ even with it's flaws is still better than most any other MMO that they have played.

[Deezle]

Well first of all I'm very, very happy to play on this server and grateful to the devs for re-creating the (semi) classic experience, and I also am BLOWN AWAY by the community here. By and large it's considerably BETTER than than the community was back on Bristlebane in 2001-2004 when I played heavily on live.

That being said, I'm definitely in the #4 camp. Why recreate things that everyone knows were mistakes? Why not add in some of the great improvements that came along after the classic years? I think there's a bit too much myopic focus on making it "classic" when really it should be about creating an enjoyable playing experience first and foremost (Some people will argue that making it just like classic EQ IS the way to make it most enjoyable, but I respectfully disagree).

Peace!

[knottyb0y]

I like this server and appreciate the work put into it to make it classic.

With that said my ideal everquest server would be one that follows the expansion release time line, but releases the expansions as they should have been.

General Changes:
1. Remove Class XP Penalties
2. Keep ui changes
3. general fixes to quests
4. global chat channels
5. guild management tool

expansion specific
1. release classic with the hole and planes at launch
2. release kunark with epic quests & Veeshan's Peak


can't think of much else but basically take all the optimization that made the game better and the content that should have been there but keep it classic

[Flunklesnarkin]

Well first of all I'm very, very happy to play on this server and grateful to the devs for re-creating the (semi) classic experience, and I also am BLOWN AWAY by the community here. By and large it's considerably BETTER than than the community was back on Bristlebane in 2001-2004 when I played heavily on live.

That being said, I'm definitely in the #4 camp. Why recreate things that everyone knows were mistakes? Why not add in some of the great improvements that came along after the classic years? I think there's a bit too much myopic focus on making it "classic" when really it should be about creating an enjoyable playing experience first and foremost (Some people will argue that making it just like classic EQ IS the way to make it most enjoyable, but I respectfully disagree).

Peace!


I can agree with the sentiment... but It probably helps them to follow the time line of patches and what not to get to proper Velious style EQ.



Pretty sure once it hits final velious stage all the known bugs and everything else will be moot.

[mwatt]

Honestly, I'd be happy with either 1, 2, 3 or 4. Since we HAVE number 2, and that is exactly what we are going to get - despite this informal poll - I'm happy.

[Danyelle]

I like this server and appreciate the work put into it to make it classic.

With that said my ideal everquest server would be one that follows the expansion release time line, but releases the expansions as they should have been.

General Changes:
1. Remove Class XP Penalties
2. Keep ui changes
3. general fixes to quests
4. global chat channels
5. guild management tool
6. zoning pets
7. zoning pets
8. zoning pets
9. pets that zone
10. taking pet across zone line
11. pets not dying when you zone
12. cupcakes

expansion specific
1. release classic with the hole and planes at launch
2. release kunark with epic quests & Veeshan's Peak


can't think of much else but basically take all the optimization that made the game better and the content that should have been there but keep it classic

ftfy

[JerseyFresh609]

Keep the responses coming guys and say why! Again I'm going to make my argument for number 4. People keep reminding me of even more changes that were made to improve the game over the years but I had forgot to mention. Like pets zoning, spell menus and saved spell sets. These things add to the experience without breaking anything that makes this server so great. Those improvements are just convenient, not truly game altering. Things that "broke" the game over the years were arguably things like the bazaar, mercenaries and the guild lobby/corpse summoners. Those changes have forced much less player interaction and made EQ live generally less challenging and entertaining in my opinion. What makes "classic" so great is favoring grouping, challenge and adventure. With #4 you still get that classic feel and game play but with all the perks! It's a win win.

[PsychoTass]

I've only been here around 2 Weeks, wish I had come to play sooner. I love this server , its hard to ask for more than it already provides. I hope it lasts a long time.

So far the people have been great, I've received some help and in turn have been able to help a few. Let's keep a good thing going.

[Ikonoclastia]

I think I prefer the 4th category also. I have been big against the Pet XP thingy and the Hybrid penality. Both Sony mistakes that are on here. Why continue a known mistake.
I guess the reason is similar to why you would stick an original problematic part on a classic car, because if you don't its no longer a classic car.

[Danyelle]

It depends what the thing is. For example something that doesn't match this era at all (like races or AAs no matter my stance on them) shouldn't be put in...not on here based on the server's goal. Ever. Things that simply fix major inconveniences though that Sony later fixed (Guild/Raid managers, zoning pets, etcetc) would be more appropriate.

However the opposing argument still stands. With something like Luclin models it's something you chose, has no impact on gameplay, and others can decline to use it. Things like this do not fit that category, however, and also should arguably be left out.

I once thought about making a server that took the best from Classic and Modern EQ, molded it together and cut the worst out. Even laid out plans for it one Friday night when I should have been out having a life but I don't because I'm me. Unfortunately I have neither the space to host it nor the patience to take on the project alone. Would be nice to see someone do something similar though. We have a server dedicated to Classic, we have a server dedicated to Modern and we have tons dedicated to random custom shit. I'm surprised no one has thought to do this yet.

[RiffDaemon]

People keep reminding me of even more changes that were made to improve the game over the years but I had forgot to mention. Like pets zoning, spell menus and saved spell sets. These things add to the experience without breaking anything that makes this server so great. Those improvements are just convenient, not truly game altering.

For PVP, those are game-altering enhancements.

[Scavrefamn]

4- removing HYBRID exp penalties, un-nerfing pet xp penalties, etc.

[mwatt]

It depends what the thing is. For example something that doesn't match this era at all (like races or AAs no matter my stance on them) shouldn't be put in...not on here based on the server's goal. Ever. Things that simply fix major inconveniences though that Sony later fixed (Guild/Raid managers, zoning pets, etcetc) would be more appropriate.

However the opposing argument still stands. With something like Luclin models it's something you chose, has no impact on gameplay, and others can decline to use it. Things like this do not fit that category, however, and also should arguably be left out.

I once thought about making a server that took the best from Classic and Modern EQ, molded it together and cut the worst out. Even laid out plans for it one Friday night when I should have been out having a life but I don't because I'm me. Unfortunately I have neither the space to host it nor the patience to take on the project alone. Would be nice to see someone do something similar though. We have a server dedicated to Classic, we have a server dedicated to Modern and we have tons dedicated to random custom shit. I'm surprised no one has thought to do this yet.

Well, it's a TON of work, as the developers here can attest. Now, if at some point, the source code for P99 goes into the public domain, we might see this sort of thing. I don't however, think that is the current plan.

[Danyelle]

Well, it's a TON of work, as the developers here can attest. Now, if at some point, the source code for P99 goes into the public domain, we might see this sort of thing. I don't however, think that is the current plan.

Well Such a thing would be possible without P99's source going public, especially considering a lot would be altered from the source anyway some being custom some being reverted back to base EQEmu source. Though it would save time if the source were released.

Not releasing the full source is understandable and, to be honest, expected. It's their custom server. Am confused as to why some of the functionalities they got working here that also work on Live to this day (tells going to queue when zoning, corpses of PC's staying in their illusions when a person dies, items/armor being unequipped as you loot them etc etc) that are not working on the base EQEmu source haven't been submitted yet but meh it'll end up there eventually anyway.

[Dumesh Uhl'Belk]

Since anything other than a completely hardline stance for #1 by the developers leads to legions of people all campaigning for that one special enhancement that would give them a hard-on... I say #1 all the way.

[Icaro]

I am very grateful for the server. I fucking love this game.

[webrunner5]

I guess the reason is similar to why you would stick an original problematic part on a classic car, because if you don't its no longer a classic car.

I can see your point Ikon. But people don't have the time to play now like they did when they were teenagers. Most people have real lives and families now. Or are in college.

I don't want it on easy mode but if you play a Iksar SK, or a Ranger you are in for a long hard road lol. Just make it a little more fair for all.

I too am very glad we have P1999. Brings back some great memories. Thanks to the Devs.

[jballe3]

i like the 4th category as well :)

[Ikonoclastia]

I can see your point Ikon. But people don't have the time to play now like they did when they were teenagers. Most people have real lives and familys now. Or are in collage.

I don't want it on easy mode but if you play a Iksar SK, or a Ranger you are in for a long hard road lol. Just make it a little more fair for all.

I too am very glad we have P1999. Brings back some great memories. Thanks to the Devs.
Yeah hey, agreed. I wouldn't be bothered if the did remove penalties, I'd prefer not but I wouldn't care. I'm a ranger btw, only level 6 at the moment but its already pretty slow :) I imagine 31 will take me 6 months :)

[Choking Victim]

#4

Would personally love new character models.

[Danyelle]

#4

Would personally love new character models.

Not sure if trolling but:

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=66382

[stormlord]

While I would like to make a poll for this, not sure I can. Anyway I'm wondering how people feel about the server. You should fall into one of the following categories:

1. Classic - I want everything as close to classic as possible. Remove item links, etc.

2. As is - I'm happy with the way things are and trust those running the server to decide what's what.

3. Classic+ - As close to classic as possible but including things that improve the overall experience without affecting the game play: like item links, UI mods, Luclin Models, High res textures, etc..

4. As it should have been - Add/Remove things based on the best overall play experience even if these things affect game play (Though not in a MAJOR way), such as everything mentioned in 3 in addition to: removing xp penalties, adding chat channels, un-nerfing pet xp penalties, etc..


I personally fall in to the 4th category. I feel like things like pets stealing xp because it's "classic" even though it was reverted back on live because it was a bad decision is silly. XP penalties do nothing but make it harder on people and discourage people from playing or grouping with certain class/race combos. Chat Channels are just useful, they may cause EC to slow down but it's still player to player trades/haggling it's not like the bazaar that completely kills that. Anyway that's just my 2 cents, how do you all feel?

Also to those of you in charge, keep up the good work! I love this server and though I don't agree with all your decisions, I do appreciate that you all take your free time to help others enjoy themselves, for free. I've enjoyed the past couple months here and hope to enjoy many more.
I prefer 4, myself. The problem is that not everyone agrees about what is best for the server. It depends on how many people you want playing, really.

For example, I don't care for the luclin models. However, if they could make it so that if I select the old model for my race then that's what other players will see, or if I select the luclin model for my race then that's what other players will see, then I'd gladly accept that compromise. The reason I feel this way is because the old models and the luclin models have a completely different character. I respect social choices in games so I do not want to take that away from others. I believe in maintaining trust. If the luclin models and the old models were not so different, I probably wouldn't feel this way. Just to give an example, the old ogres are fat and almost comical. The new ones are muscled and serious. Another example are the gnomes. The old models for gnomes look older and weak(ish). The new models look younger and stronger. All of this is ignoring the fact that the faces look different. Another are the humans. The old models for humans look almost average in size and build. But the luclin models for humans look like wrestlers or heavy weight boxers. Lastly, I'd like to point out something many people have missed. The old models use textures for the face and there're no polygons for the mouth or the nose or the eyes. This means that the old face textures have a -wide- range of different eye and mouth and nose proportions. The luclin models, on the other hand, use polygons for the mouth and nose and eyes and this never changes for any particular race selection. So this means that no matter which face you pick, the placement of the mouth and nose and eyes will always remain the same.

Thing is, people -can- make their own version of project1999, but you have to work at it. Personally, I wouldn't care so much about recreating 1999-2001. I'd simply take the projectEQ database and carve it into what I think a MMORPG should be. But I think a lot of people would disagree with me.

I'd probably not use eqemulator for my hypothetical game. I'd go to an open source option in order to ensure legality and not ever have to worry about being shutdown by Sony.

An example of an open source MMORPG-like project is Crossfire. There're others.

I never in my life would do an EQ emulator. Too afraid of legality issues and too lazy.

[Raavak]

If it wasn't for EQ in its various forms distracting me I would have completed my plans for world domination by now. Curse you EQ!

[ArumTP]

-4

From my perspective. Some cleric spells were added later on, lucilin era. The current no exp rez gets like 25% added to it, then they added a new no exp rez like level 20ish. This helps the game along, less long corpse runs at low levels.

I also would like to see the mounts added back into the game. It would take some of this massive amount of plat that seems to be floating around in the game.

Both of these put back in would improve the game here. Anything that makes a relatively large world "smaller", in a server with a small population, helps.

I am also anti pet exp, as it just hoses mages, and only them. Just by virtue of them being a mage puts them at a handicap.

Hybrid exp penalty I am also against. It was taken out of live with good reason.

[WhatIsAJuggalo]

4.

im not playing this because i have a hardon for playing something in the exact state it was 13 years ago. im playing this because i liked the core flow of gameplay and the world 13 years ago. anything that can be done within reason to improve or build upon that certain flow is fine, so long as it does not detract or alter the overall feel. stuff that was just an oversight of game design can be fixed without ruining the 'rough' feel of the world. IE, halflings, a naturally awesome race, getting an experience bonus when it was clearly meant for humans.

[FoxxHound]

http://www.tentonhammer.com/image/view/65353/preview

[Ikonoclastia]

-4

From my perspective. Some cleric spells were added later on, lucilin era. The current no exp rez gets like 25% added to it, then they added a new no exp rez like level 20ish. This helps the game along, less long corpse runs at low levels.

I also would like to see the mounts added back into the game. It would take some of this massive amount of plat that seems to be floating around in the game.

Both of these put back in would improve the game here. Anything that makes a relatively large world "smaller", in a server with a small population, helps.

I am also anti pet exp, as it just hoses mages, and only them. Just by virtue of them being a mage puts them at a handicap.

Hybrid exp penalty I am also against. It was taken out of live with good reason.
Yeah I kind of disagree. I think those small changes, to make things a little easier, the world smaller, experience a little faster ruined EQ.

[stormlord]

-4

From my perspective. Some cleric spells were added later on, lucilin era. The current no exp rez gets like 25% added to it, then they added a new no exp rez like level 20ish. This helps the game along, less long corpse runs at low levels.

I also would like to see the mounts added back into the game. It would take some of this massive amount of plat that seems to be floating around in the game.

Both of these put back in would improve the game here. Anything that makes a relatively large world "smaller", in a server with a small population, helps.

I am also anti pet exp, as it just hoses mages, and only them. Just by virtue of them being a mage puts them at a handicap.

Hybrid exp penalty I am also against. It was taken out of live with good reason.
Everybody always focuses on the obvious like corpse runs and slow experience and nerfs and hybrid penalties. This is the elementary sh** that the noob might point out when they login for the first time.

Where things get interesting is when you start digging beneath the surface. The problem isn't downtime, so much. That's far too shallow of an explanation. It assumes that if you remove the downtime then everything is fixed, no doubt about it. But the thing it misses is HOW the downtime is removed!

The problem was that EQ didn't offer us choices. The few choices that it did offer us it locked away behind a mountain of obstacles. Corpse runs, by themselves, aren't evil. What's evil is not giving anybody any other choices unless they have a level 29+ cleric in the group or can find a 29+ cleric or a 57+ paladin nearby. I think that adding low level rezzes was a good idea. But not because it reduced downtime. The reason I like it is because it gave players an option. I would have liked it even more if they had found a way to make us make different choices. It shouldn't have been as simple as just "Hey, I got a rez spell!" It would have been even more brilliant if they had found a way to reward people who actually did a corpse run in certain circumstances. Or perhaps there might be wandering non-player clerics in zones. Or maybe if you die in certain places you do not lose experience. Or maybe there're certain abilities that some players have that can cancel experience loss due to death. The list could go on and on. The point about all this is that by giving players choices you make the game more interesting. If you only focus on the downtime then you miss this point altogether.

Choices and strategy are what make games fun, to me. Downtime is a separate issue. Yes, downtime can indicate that a game lacks choices. But downtime can also indicate choices you made that were bad ones. For example, if I run face first into the boss monster without any caution or any preparation and then get cut down and killed and lose time because I have to run back, I should not then complain that the downtime I experience because of my own choices should be removed. Another example is if I spend money on an item for my house and barely even look at it before giving the non-player my money. Then when I get home and install the item I find out it won't install! Not only that, but it turns out that it's not even a house accessory, it's a weapon! I bought the wrong item! Now what????? Should I complain and tell developers that this downtime is unacceptable? Do you see what I'm saying? Along with choices comes consequences. Now, this doesn't mean that I can't get a refund for the item I mistakenly bought (maybe could get refund from the same merchant), nor does it mean that bad choices cannot be worked around (ex: feign death so boss monster doesn't kill you), but one has to understand that making a wrong choice cannot be equal to making a right choice.

Negative consequences are not themselves bad. A lack of choices, by comparison, IS bad. But negative consequences CAN be too devastating. Corpse runs WERE too devastating in many cases. Like a unrecoverable corpse in Hate or running across a continent and dying and have to run across again or dying in the ocean with no /loc. But to overlook the lack of choice in the game and to only focus on this one thing is to miss the target. If you do this, your answer to corpse runs is just to make it easier and then say to the players, "There, I made it less devastating. Problem solved." But the problem is that this doesn't make the mechanics of death any more or any less interesting. All it does is solve a problem on the surface but it goes no deeper than that. Some people get stuck in this frame of mind and making -interesting- gameplay becomes less of a priority.

[webrunner5]

Everybody always focuses on the obvious like corpse runs and slow experience and nerfs and hybrid penalties. This is the elementary sh** that the noob might point out when they login for the first time.

Where things get interesting is when you start digging beneath the surface. The problem isn't downtime, so much. That's far too shallow of an explanation. It assumes that if you remove the downtime then everything is fixed, no doubt about it. But the thing it misses is HOW the downtime is removed!

The problem was that EQ didn't offer us choices. The few choices that it did offer us it locked away behind a mountain of obstacles. Corpse runs, by themselves, aren't evil. What's evil is not giving anybody any other choices unless they have a level 29+ cleric in the group or can find a 29+ cleric or a 57+ paladin nearby. I think that adding low level rezzes was a good idea. But not because it reduced downtime. The reason I like it is because it gave players an option. I would have liked it even more if they had found a way to make us make different choices. It shouldn't have been as simple as just "Hey, I got a rez spell!" It would have been even more brilliant if they had found a way to reward people who actually did a corpse run in certain circumstances. Or perhaps there might be wandering non-player clerics in zones. Or maybe if you die in certain places you do not lose experience. Or maybe there're certain abilities that some players have that can cancel experience loss due to death. The list could go on and on. The point about all this is that by giving players choices you make the game more interesting. If you only focus on the downtime then you miss this point altogether.

Choices and strategy are what make games fun, to me. Downtime is a separate issue. Yes, downtime can indicate that a game lacks choices. But downtime can also indicate choices you made that were bad ones. For example, if I run face first into the boss monster without any caution or any preparation and then get cut down and killed and lose time because I have to run back, I should not then complain that the downtime I experience because of my own choices should be removed. Another example is if I spend money on an item for my house and barely even look at it before giving the non-player my money. Then when I get home and install the item I find out it won't install! Not only that, but it turns out that it's not even a house accessory, it's a weapon! I bought the wrong item! Now what????? Should I complain and tell developers that this downtime is unacceptable? Do you see what I'm saying? Along with choices comes consequences. Now, this doesn't mean that I can't get a refund for the item I mistakenly bought (maybe could get refund from the same merchant), nor does it mean that bad choices cannot be worked around (ex: feign death so boss monster doesn't kill you), but one has to understand that making a wrong choice cannot be equal to making a right choice.

Negative consequences are not themselves bad. A lack of choices, by comparison, IS bad. But negative consequences CAN be too devastating. Corpse runs WERE too devastating in many cases. Like a unrecoverable corpse in Hate or running across a continent and dying and have to run across again or dying in the ocean with no /loc. But to overlook the lack of choice in the game and to only focus on this one thing is to miss the target. If you do this, your answer to corpse runs is just to make it easier and then say to the players, "There, I made it less devastating. Problem solved." But the problem is that this doesn't make the mechanics of death any more or any less interesting. All it does is solve a problem on the surface but it goes no deeper than that. Some people get stuck in this frame of mind and making -interesting- gameplay becomes less of a priority.

Jesus, you have way too much time on your hands.

[Groo]

I'm very grateful for the server. But I keep seeing people referring to a "classic feel," and I can tell that many people's sense of "classic" is different than mine. For me, classic EQ was when the newbie zones and cities were still full of players. The classic experience was about more than just the game settings.

[RevengeofGio]

Everyone has a different opinion on what gives the best overall play experience. Everyone who plays here agrees that classic EQ even with it's flaws is still better than most any other MMO that they have played.


Yeah, but that doesn't mean keep the flaws. It doesn't make the game better or "harder" other than being more tedious to certain class choices.

[Zuranthium]

I'm very grateful for the server. But I keep seeing people referring to a "classic feel," and I can tell that many people's sense of "classic" is different than mine. For me, classic EQ was when the newbie zones and cities were still full of players. The classic experience was about more than just the game settings.

Exactly.

As I've said a million times, just trying to restore the game settings to the classic timeline does not recreate the classic Everquest experience. You have to take far more liberties and actually change things in order to recreate the classic Everquest experience.

[Ikonoclastia]

Exactly.

As I've said a million times, just trying to restore the game settings to the classic timeline does not recreate the classic Everquest experience. You have to take far more liberties and actually change things in order to recreate the classic Everquest experience.
The classic experience is going to be different for most people, changing the mechanics to find some special formula so everyone experiences the original EQ the way they did back in 1999 is probably impossible.

The best that can be done is probably to recreate the mechanics the way they were back then and let the players try to recreate the experience.

Modifying stuff, giving people more options, adding something from PoP or whatever is not going to be helpful in that respect imo.

[Grozmok]

Classic+

[Choking Victim]

Not sure if trolling but:

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=66382

Nope. Sure wasn't. Thanks a lot

[easy_lee]

To preface this post, I play an iksar monk, meaning one of the most severe xp pentalties (44% I believe).

I think the 4th is a very dangerous way of thinking, particularly the way it's phrased. If we just start removing the things that make this game difficult, frustrating, etc, we take out the accomplishment we feel when things go right.

That's part of it, but here's the more important part: who decides the way things should have been? The p1999 staff does. And the p1999 staff may not agree with you on the way things should have been. For example, a p1999 staff member may think it's a good idea to nerf your class. This being the social game that it is, nobody benefits when x or y class is nerfed.

I am in favor of 3, classic +. Item links, UI, and similar features don't affect the difficulty at all, just make the experience a little smoother.

[webrunner5]

I really love how all the Classic crap is thrown around. Sony started a new game years ago called EQ. After a few months they figured out it had flaws people didin't like. Nobobdy is perfect so they had patches that fixed a lot of the flaws. And then they had expansions that added new content and fixed even more flaws, etc.

So a lot of people on here just want to have every flaw that was ever in the original release. Well fine for you. Well I don't want it like 4 expansions later was, but somethings were just stupid they did at the start. I won't get into them, but true Classic sucks at a lot of things.

I am very glad for this server and all the work the Drevs have done. But this is not 1999 anymore with a bunch of teens in their parents basement, with all the time in the world, to Poopsock anymore. Most people on here now have real lives so things have changed and so should some of the original flaws this game had and still has.

My 2 cents worth.

[Grozmok]

Well I don't want it like 4 expansions later was, but somethings were just stupid they did at the start. I won't get into them, but true Classic sucks at a lot of things.

This.

[DOPE]

http://www.wethepeeps.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/dead-horse.jpg

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, STOP BEATING HIM!!!!

[Ikonoclastia]

I really love how all the Classic crap is thrown around. Sony started a new game years ago called EQ. After a few months they figured out it had flaws people didin't like. Nobobdy is perfect so they had patches that fixed a lot of the flaws. And then they had expansions that added new content and fixed even more flaws, etc.

So a lot of people on here just want to have every flaw that was ever in the original release. Well fine for you. Well I don't want it like 4 expansions later was, but somethings were just stupid they did at the start. I won't get into them, but true Classic sucks at a lot of things.

I am very glad for this server and all the work the Drevs have done. But this is not 1999 anymore with a bunch of teens in their parents basement, with all the time in the world, to Poopsock anymore. Most people on here now have real lives so things have changed and so should some of the original flaws this game had and still has.

My 2 cents worth.
This is like walking into an Italian restaurant and complaining about the pasta dishes n tomato dishes. There are heaps of other emu servers for people with real lives.

[Kika Maslyaka]

This is like walking into an Italian restaurant and complaining about the pasta dishes n tomato dishes. There are heaps of other emu servers for people with real lives.

Aye. As much as I agree that at least half of the "Vision" was wrong, I also agree that if purpose of THIS server to be "classic", its pretty pointless to criticize it for trying to be classic. ;)

You can criticizes "the Vision", but I would not expect Devs to start altering the server to "fix it".
There are plenty of other servers out there, each of which tries to deliver its own vision.

It is also really not that hard to start your own server to show the world YOUR version of the Vision - a bare minimum of technical skills is required.
It only takes times and dedication. ;)

[sbvera13]

Halfway between 3 and 4.

Quality of life changes are definately a good thing. Yes, we are all oldtimers here (as the gaming industry is concerned) and can deal with clunky interfaces. But it's 2012 now, and it's nice to not have to. Gameplay changes would be good as well, as long as they are minor and consistent with the original experience. XP penalties, minor aspects of class balance (like archery sucking), lack of high-end money sinks, things that would create an overall superior experience without altering the core of the game in any way.

And to those who respond, "go play on other emu servers lazy wtfxzors", classic even with it's flaws is better then what's available elsewhere. Classic with less flaws would be even better though.

[Flunklesnarkin]

I'm very grateful for the server. But I keep seeing people referring to a "classic feel," and I can tell that many people's sense of "classic" is different than mine. For me, classic EQ was when the newbie zones and cities were still full of players. The classic experience was about more than just the game settings.


Need a perma death server


noobie zones would always be packed :D

[SyanideGas]

Need a perma death server


noobie zones would always be packed :D

Haha I would hate life :P

[webrunner5]

http://www.wethepeeps.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/dead-horse.jpg

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, STOP BEATING HIM!!!!

I like it. I will keep my mouth shut on the topic lol. Well maybe. Good job DOPE.

[stormlord]

Exactly.

As I've said a million times, just trying to restore the game settings to the classic timeline does not recreate the classic Everquest experience. You have to take far more liberties and actually change things in order to recreate the classic Everquest experience.
Excellent points.

There're a million things one can bring up. First thing that comes to my mind is the fact that everything was new to us in 1999-02. There was no enormous pool of information on the internet, either. (In my later years on live I used allah almost daily to locate loots, quests, etc.) Furthermore, the graphics were considered acceptable - there was less complaining about that. The population was much higher. The list goes on.

The settings and code on p1999 are not exact. We will never perfectly duplicate it and even if we did perfectly duplicate it, as you and others have pointed out, it would still not be the same experience.

[Flunklesnarkin]

people may not agree with individual decisions.


but i think its been said before


If you don't agree with the vision of the server you probably shouldn't be playing on it.


There are dozens of other eq emu's out there.

[Bwils]

4th for me because I play a hybrid =) I am grateful for this server and I have no complaints for them to change anything.

[stormlord]

Some things I'd like to add to p1999:
1) Map functionality that:
* imitates every feature of the more modern map window on live, except:
* shows your corpses (date and time of death included) - was this on live?
* removes the position indicators for you and your group on the map
.... note: i hate gps, i always thought the indicators altered the game too much
* allows players to trade zone maps in-game by selling/exchanging them
.... note: i always hated going to mapfiend.com and manually extracting
2) Give some Tracking/Hide/Sneak/etc skill to every class/race combination
* some race/class combinations will have higher maximums than others
* the skill has to be trained by a guildmaster or through use
3) Implement corpse summoners in all of the cities
* keep the cost level-appropriate
* make the cost high enough to justify players who get them manually
4) Boost the defense of unarmored players and increase hand-to-hand damage (non-monks)
.... note: intent of this is to make corpse retrieval a bit easier
.... note: it also increases the value of training hand-to-hand for non-monks
5) Implement non-player wizards/druids in the cities that have limited teleport services
* this is not meant to replace players, but to fill-in for absent porters
.... note: this is to give players another teleport option
6) Lower the level requirements of bind affinity for casters to levels 4-8
.... note: low levels often want binds in low level places, so... (this is something fundamental)
7) Give an experience bonus when players kill different creatures over lengths of time
* grant a grace period where the player can kill consecutively and get the bonus
* it will reward players who move around more
.... note: this is meant to reduce camping, but not prevent it
8) Add the Quest Journal
9) Fix /note bugs (like when it gets large) and add a UI to the /note window
10) Etc.

Some of this is just my attempt at giving non-players some of the capabilities that players have. It's actually a bit more immersive to have non-players that can teleport/summon/etc just like players can. I wouldn't be scared of adding wandering non-player clerics to dungeons, either. You could bring your corpse to them and rez for a price. I bet all sorts of things are possible. I like how guards will help protect players. What would be nice is if they wouldn't ninja steal experience AND were capable of doing their job as opposed to being exploited.

Just a start to some of the things I'd prolly do. Scratching the surface.

I'm not sure about the experience penalty. I'd have to look at it deeper and also look at the design of classes to confirm to myself whether there truly is a imbalance or not. I'm not firm on this.

[Flunklesnarkin]

Some things I'd like to add to p1999:
1) Map functionality that:
* imitates every feature of the more modern map window on live, except:
* shows your corpses (date and time of death included) - was this on live?
* removes the position indicators for you and your group on the map
.... note: i hate gps, i always thought the indicators altered the game too much
* allows players to trade zone maps in-game by selling/exchanging them
.... note: i always hated going to mapfiend.com and manually extracting
2) Give some Tracking/Hide/Sneak/etc skill to every class/race combination
* some race/class combinations will have higher maximums than others
* the skill has to be trained by a guildmaster or through use
3) Implement corpse summoners in all of the cities
* keep the cost level-appropriate
* make the cost high enough to justify players who get them manually
4) Boost the defense of unarmored players and increase hand-to-hand damage
.... note: intent of this is to make corpse retrieval a bit easier
.... note: it also increases the value of training hand-to-hand for non-monks
5) Implement non-player wizards/druids in the cities that have limited teleport services
* this is not meant to replace players, but to fill-in for absent porters
.... note: this is to give players another teleport option
6) Give an experience bonus when players kill different creatures over lengths of time
* grant a grace period where the player can kill consecutively and get the bonus
* it will reward players who move around more
.... note: this is meant to reduce camping, but not prevent it
7) Add the Quest Journal
8) Fix /note bugs (like when it gets large) and add a UI to the /note window
9) Etc.

Just a start to some of the things I'd prolly do. Scratching the surface.

I'm not sure about the experience penalty. I'd have to look at it deeper and also look at the design of classes to confirm to myself whether there truly is a imbalance or not. I'm not firm on this.

10. start your own emu... the tools are out there.

[stormlord]

10. start your own emu... the tools are out there.
Not a chance in hell. I already stated I'm not interested in Eq emu's.

I'm in dream-land right now. Just having fun.

[Flunklesnarkin]

Just gotta accept then that not everything will be to your specific vision of how classic should be.


Only way to have your entire list implemented is to start your own emu heh

[stormlord]

This sums up how I feel:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmeUfW9fN10

If you watch the first two minutes you'll get what I'm saying.

[Grozmok]

Fuck it. I have the answer. This is the only thing that will shut everyone up and let this thread die.


































http://cdn.walyou.com/wp-content/uploads//2010/01/back-to-the-future-delorean-time-machine-replica.jpg

It's the only way.

Go back in time. Hang out with your nostalgia self. Fap to the same porn together.

Wait, does that make you gay?

[Holey]

While I would like to make a poll for this, not sure I can. Anyway I'm wondering how people feel about the server. You should fall into one of the following categories:

1. Classic - I want everything as close to classic as possible. Remove item links, etc.

2. As is - I'm happy with the way things are and trust those running the server to decide what's what.

3. Classic+ - As close to classic as possible but including things that improve the overall experience without affecting the game play: like item links, UI mods, Luclin Models, High res textures, etc..

4. As it should have been - Add/Remove things based on the best overall play experience even if these things affect game play (Though not in a MAJOR way), such as everything mentioned in 3 in addition to: removing xp penalties, adding chat channels, un-nerfing pet xp penalties, etc..


I personally fall in to the 4th category. I feel like things like pets stealing xp because it's "classic" even though it was reverted back on live because it was a bad decision is silly. XP penalties do nothing but make it harder on people and discourage people from playing or grouping with certain class/race combos. Chat Channels are just useful, they may cause EC to slow down but it's still player to player trades/haggling it's not like the bazaar that completely kills that. Anyway that's just my 2 cents, how do you all feel?

Also to those of you in charge, keep up the good work! I love this server and though I don't agree with all your decisions, I do appreciate that you all take your free time to help others enjoy themselves, for free. I've enjoyed the past couple months here and hope to enjoy many more.

if you want classic go make your own server. they're doing the best they can.

[sbvera13]

if you want classic go make your own server. they're doing the best they can.

Everyone keeps saying that... I have to assume they are not reading the responses?

[Flunklesnarkin]

Everyone keeps saying that... I have to assume they are not reading the responses?

we are.. and everybody seems to want stuff a little differently.


So if you have your own special vision of how eq should be.. make your own server.


the tools are out there and they offer help.. the very same website you create an account to play on this emu.. has info on other emu as well.

[Zuranthium]

The classic experience is going to be different for most people, changing the mechanics to find some special formula so everyone experiences the original EQ the way they did back in 1999 is probably impossible.

The best that can be done is probably to recreate the mechanics the way they were back then and let the players try to recreate the experience.

The "classic experience" for anyone who actually played in 1999 was something that involved a lot of risk and exploration and adaptation. Those qualities have been lost by simply trying to restore the game settings to the way they were in 1999, both because some of the mechanics themselves are far too clunky (but we didn't care much in 1999 because it was such a new and amazing experience) and because players already know everything they have to do now. Thus, a huge part of what made Everquest an actual RPG, one of the most immersive ever, is gone.

Modifying stuff, giving people more options, adding something from PoP or whatever is not going to be helpful in that respect imo.

PoP? I never brought that up at all. Don't mix different ideas in this discussion. There are things that would improve the game and better recreate Everquest as it was intended to be, and as it was played in the beginning, and then there are things that water down the game. I'm not advocating for the latter category.

[Leokaiser]

I think many of the people responding to those favouring option 4 with 'play on a different emu server' fail to understand the appeal p1999 has for us. We enjoyed the core mechanics of EQ - those mainly built around interdependancy and social interation - in spite of flaws which a large proportion of modern game designers would recognise as anti-fun.

As EQ developed, many flaws were ironed out, but many of the core mechnics of the game were also altered. I feel the same is true of many of the other emu servers out there. In effect, what you are suggesting is that we sacrifice core game mechanics in order to rid ourselves of certain balance/quality of life niggles. For people who value the core aspects of classic EQ so highly, I find this rather bizzare.

These seems to be a divide between people who play here to have fun and those who are straight up EQ Classic enthusiasts. And that's fair enough; it's fairly apparent that the developers themselves fall into the latter category. But please note that the people here are simply expressing their preferences - things that would make the server more fun for them on a subjective level - not making demands or trying to tell the developers what to do with their own project. To tell them to make their own server for expressing those preferences is both extreme and absurd.

The above also takes into account the fact that individual views on what constitutes a flaw in the design of classic EQ will vary, though some of the more notable ones seem to be agreed upon by the majority.

[Kika Maslyaka]

what is so extreme and absurd about making your own server?
I have been working on my own "Vision" server for last 3 years. When its done, it will be everything that EQ should have been but failed to deliver.
At least in IMO ;)

You have to realize that Devs here are NOT SOE/Verant. The later, WERE occasionally listening to their players cause their salaries depended on players willingness to play and pay.

On Emu servers, devs don't need to sacrifice their "Vision" in order to please the "paying customer". Hence, the devs are even MORE adamant about sticking to their vision, and trying to tell them how YOU would like them to run THEIR server, usually only results in the Devs getting pissed at you ;)
Even if you right ;)

[Leokaiser]

what is so extreme and absurd about making your own server?

Nothing is extreme or absurd about making your own server - clearly many people have, and hundreds, if not thousands of people enjoy playing on them. If you have an idea you feel would make for a great server, along with the time, drive and ambition needed to make it come to life, then all power to anyone who wants to try their hand at it.

But as a response to someone saying that, in regards to this server, they would prefer (not demanding) that there was no hybrid tax or pets could zone with you? It really is. We are talking about relatively minor issues here (hence why people still play despite a certain amount of grumbling about them), and having several p99 clones with slight modifications made is ridiculous, even discounting the fact that there are barely enough players to populate the emu servers already in exisitence.

On Emu servers, devs don't need to sacrifice their "Vision" in order to please the "paying customer". Hence, the devs are even MORE adamant about sticking to their vision, and trying to tell them how YOU would like them to run THEIR server, usually only results in the Devs getting pissed at you ;)
Even if you right ;)

I don't think there is anything wrong with stating your likes and dislikes in a well mannered and reasonable fashion, as long as you don't expect the devs to actually implement your ideas. Forums are for discussion after all.

[Kika Maslyaka]

Let me clearly what is the dilemma here.

Back on LIVE if enough people would bug SOE to change/implement something, SOE would eventually back down and maybe meet them half way. But if you were in minority - you could only dream about something you like to be implemented.

On EMU - you actually have a REAL opportunity to do things EXACTLY how you want them.

No one is denying you the right of free speech, I am merely pointing out at the fact that, that ANYONE here has a freedom to start their own eq server and alter anything they think worth altering.

In other words what is happening is following:

1. This is a Purist Vision Classic server (minus the technical discrepancies like new UI, item links etc)
2. At least 50% of players that play here are PURISTS who came here to get exactly that - a Pure Classical server (lets call them group A)
3. SOME portion of the players (lets call them group B) like the idea of original EQ but would not mind to IMPROVE on it.
4. Now these players from Group B start making all these suggestions about improving classical gameplay that purists obviously don't like.

Now, listen careful as I am about to make a point: even if we assume for a moment that server Devs are influenced by democracy (right of majority), even then, the group B would loose to group A.
However, when people from group B are given option to do things their own way - split off and start their own project, they somehow consider it inappropriate.

So it appears to be, that group B, while desiring changes to the server, somehow wishes to impose them onto Group A, and have group A to accept them, despite the fact, that group A clearly opposes such changes.
I basing this argument on a logical assumption, that if YOU are proposing a change, you would like to see this change implemented, otherwise you would not be proposing it.
And when group B is presented with a counter offer of creating their OWN project, where group B will be a majority governing potential improvement of EQ, they find it unacceptable to them.

[Hitchens]

The FAQ plainly states that exp penalties exist:

What are the experience penalties/bonuses?
By Race:
Troll -20%
Iksar -20%
Ogre -15%
Barbarian -5%
Halfling +5%

By Class:
Paladin / Shadowknight / Ranger / Bard -40%
Monk -20%
Wizard / Magician / Enchanter / Necromancer -10%
Rogue +9%
Warrior +10%

There is a handy sortable class/race matrix available to peruse. One thing to note is that exp penalties are multiplied not added: a troll shadowknight would be at a 1.4 (SK) x 1.2 (TRL) = 1.68 or 68% penalty. Until the July 2010 patch the racial exp mods were slightly off. Ogres were getting the halfling bonus instead of a penalty, .etc. Full details are available here.

If you can't take the time to read an FAQ before investing time in the game, the responsibility for being unsatisfied with experience penalties lies with you.

[Flunklesnarkin]

what is so extreme and absurd about making your own server?
I have been working on my own "Vision" server for last 3 years. When its done, it will be everything that EQ should have been but failed to deliver.
At least in IMO ;)

You have to realize that Devs here are NOT SOE/Verant. The later, WERE occasionally listening to their players cause their salaries depended on players willingness to play and pay.

On Emu servers, devs don't need to sacrifice their "Vision" in order to please the "paying customer". Hence, the devs are even MORE adamant about sticking to their vision, and trying to tell them how YOU would like them to run THEIR server, usually only results in the Devs getting pissed at you ;)
Even if you right ;)


Good deal if you need somebody to poke around your server a little bit just let me know.


I'll see if i can find any bugs ;p

[JerseyFresh609]

Seriously some of you need to remove the stick from your ass. I was just interested in some feedback. In my OP I mentioned that I am thankful for the server and the Devs. I'm not making any demands. I'm just offering my opinion. I like this server but that doesn't mean it's perfect. It gets most of what I want right, but certain changes would improve the overall experience. Going out and starting my own server is a bit extreme and not at all practical... Telling me it's my own fault for not reading the FAQ? I knew about the experience penalties when I started, that doesn't mean I agree with them. Calm down people and have a friendly discussion! This wasn't a rant.

[Danyelle]

what is so extreme and absurd about making your own server?
I have been working on my own "Vision" server for last 3 years. When its done, it will be everything that EQ should have been but failed to deliver.
At least in IMO ;)

You have to realize that Devs here are NOT SOE/Verant. The later, WERE occasionally listening to their players cause their salaries depended on players willingness to play and pay.

On Emu servers, devs don't need to sacrifice their "Vision" in order to please the "paying customer". Hence, the devs are even MORE adamant about sticking to their vision, and trying to tell them how YOU would like them to run THEIR server, usually only results in the Devs getting pissed at you ;)
Even if you right ;)

If you happen to need any help with anything let me know :)

[Kika Maslyaka]

Seriously some of you need to remove the stick from your ass. I was just interested in some feedback. In my OP I mentioned that I am thankful for the server and the Devs. I'm not making any demands. I'm just offering my opinion. I like this server but that doesn't mean it's perfect. It gets most of what I want right, but certain changes would improve the overall experience. Going out and starting my own server is a bit extreme and not at all practical... Telling me it's my own fault for not reading the FAQ? I knew about the experience penalties when I started, that doesn't mean I agree with them. Calm down people and have a friendly discussion! This wasn't a rant.

Please don't take offense on this. I myself more than once have started and participated in such discussions. You just need to accept that majority of players than play on P99 are classical purists, and readily object to any "improvements", no matter how creative and beneficial they are. ;)
So, don't give up on your ideas, just be ready for some burning criticism ;)

Flunklesnarkin, Danyelle - thanks for the offer. I will keep you guys in mind, once the things move into open Alpha testing ;)

[JerseyFresh609]

Please don't take offense on this. I myself more than once have started and participated in such discussions. You just need to accept that majority of players than play on P99 are classical purists, and readily object to any "improvements", no matter how creative and beneficial they are. ;)
So, don't give up on your ideas, just be ready for some burning criticism ;)

Flunklesnarkin, Danyelle - thanks for the offer. I will keep you guys in mind, once the things move into open Alpha testing ;)

Don't worry you didn't offend me, while I might not agree with you, you are contributing to the discussion in a positive way.

[stormlord]

Seriously some of you need to remove the stick from your ass. I was just interested in some feedback. In my OP I mentioned that I am thankful for the server and the Devs. I'm not making any demands. I'm just offering my opinion. I like this server but that doesn't mean it's perfect. It gets most of what I want right, but certain changes would improve the overall experience. Going out and starting my own server is a bit extreme and not at all practical... Telling me it's my own fault for not reading the FAQ? I knew about the experience penalties when I started, that doesn't mean I agree with them. Calm down people and have a friendly discussion! This wasn't a rant.
I agree. I came here to see ideas people had. I do not want to change p1999. I actually like having the option to come here and play EQ -as it was-. That's the value of p1999. That's what makes it durable.