Mem blur and HP

[Maze513]

as it is now if u mem blur a mob it CHs back to 100% HP. Cant find this anywhere in classic. Pretty sure its not supposed to work like that. Feedback please :)

[Zenlina]

To be more exact, memblur on dragons CH it (Well more like Reset, going from 10% to 100% in a instant), is considered exploit and those that do it should be banned. Specially if they know about it already and keep doing it.

Any GM help in regards to this much appreciated.

[Loly Taa]

Mobs should never immediately go back to 100% upon memblur. It was never this way in classsic.

Right now, any cleric or enchanter can make any raidmob CH with one unresistable spell, this is retarded- was never classic, and this bug from EQEMU code should be removed.

[nerfed]

Not sure about dragons but normal mobs still regen 5% a tick until around 35% then i think they ch.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Here is another data point if devs would like to look into this further. Hope this helps get this corrected.

http://i.imgur.com/WODFL.png

Thank you for looking into this!

[Seaweedpimp]

^^ wasnt expecting that at all.






retard

[Shiftin]

is this more relevant?

http://vvcap.net/db/z79GfQ4Us7_EJwPq9oAT.jpg

It wasn't even looked at more than once by the number of views it got at the time.

Technically we had guessed this worked since the September 2011 faydedar where our puller has him meleeing faydedar and never dying in his logs, but doesn't show up on the FTE log, but did see an enchanter out with a TMO bard pulling.

Why are you posting it HERE when it's clearly a method of griefing, and now?

[Autotune]

They posted about fixing this awhile back, I guess it never got put in.

[Zenlina]

This was already known fact quite a long time ago. And we assumed that no guild would use it to exploit bosses to there advantage till now with Dragons in VP. Although VP is a non GM assisted zone, doing memblur on the dragon to purposely reset it isnt exactly fair in any sense.

I mean after that talendor incident it was never used again, till now which is why the topic was again brought up.

[Autotune]

I'm going to be coding in a mem blur immunity flag, and nilbog or I will go through all the raid mobs, including some epic mobs, to flag them for both mem blur immunity and charm immunity.

[Autotune]

This was already known fact quite a long time ago. And we assumed that no guild would use it to exploit bosses to there advantage till now with Dragons in VP. Although VP is a non GM assisted zone, doing memblur on the dragon to purposely reset it isnt exactly fair in any sense.

I mean after that talendor incident it was never used again, till now which is why the topic was again brought up.

Technically, doesn't matter if it is fair. If it's deemed legal in VP we will just perfect a strat against it.

Still should have been fixed for everything awhile back however.

[Maze513]

and with Tal is was proven that TMO had FTE so Yendor can quit pluckin that string. This isnt or bad trolls this is for bugs

[Raavak]

Probably should be spreading this report around so we don't lose people. What's the penalty for exploiting a known bug in game mechanics?

[YendorLootmonkey]

I was just merely providing helpful additional evidence of this happening, trying to help you guys get this bug resolved so it is no longer an issue for you.

[Jjlent]

It is only an issue for any guilds that are attempting to kill stuff. It would be an issue for you too if you actually wanted to kill stuff and not just try to grief.

[Jiggles]

Thanks Qadosx of The Mystical Order for this gift from God

[bizzum]

Thanks Qadosx of Acyrid for this gift from God

Lets launch over it. You sure bout that?

[Xeliso]

bump.

[arsenalpow]

Fun fact: resets spiroc lord to full hp as well

(the great isle 5 disaster of 2011, ask Figaro)

[Raavak]

This is currently being repeatedly exploited by one guild to their advantage.

[YendorLootmonkey]

It was done by a different guild on Talendor as shown above and was never ruled an exploit, so it is being considered fair game in a non-CSR-assist zone until ruled otherwise.

Either way, an official response would be appreciated so we know how to proceed within the scope of the server rules.

[Xatava]

1. Is it a bug or broken mechanic?
Yes
2. Is it being used to gain an unfair advantage (ie: accomplish something that would not be possible without exploiting said broken mechanic)?
Yes
3. Do server rules state that players are not to exploit bugs to gain an unfair advantage?
Yes

Where is the confusion coming from? You think because VP is a zone that CSRs won't assist in that you're allowed to exploit bugs there? By that logic you probably fire up the old macroquest every time you zone in as well I suppose.

Use some common sense people.

[Raavak]

It was done ... on Talendor ... and was never ruled an exploit
Was it even duly reported or just the subject of RnF?

[YendorLootmonkey]

Where is the confusion coming from?

The confusion is coming from that it was done on Talendor to another guild and nothing ever became of it, so it must be a legit strategy. Otherwise, if it were exploiting, certainly the guild who did it on Talendor would have reaped some sort of consequences from it.

[Raavak]

The confusion is coming from that it was done on Talendor to another guild and nothing ever became of it, so it must be a legit strategy. Otherwise, if it were exploiting, certainly the guild who did it on Talendor would have reaped some sort of consequences from it.

You're using false logic my man. I don't believe there was a ruling.

[Fountree]

This wasn't done once, Yendor. Its been done 5 times now, on several different raid occasions. The fact that you continue to repeatedly abuse a broken mechanic is an exploit, sorry. Talendor was memblurred that time to prevent a KS on your guild's part (yes we had FTE). None of the officers, or guild leadership was aware that Qadosx would memblur Tal or informed before hand. The fact that VD continues to do it while also not mobilizing a force to kill Hoshkar is especially infurirating and attests to the fact that you guys took more than a page out of IB's dirty play book.

[Xatava]

The confusion is coming from that it was done on Talendor to another guild and nothing ever became of it, so it must be a legit strategy. Otherwise, if it were exploiting, certainly the guild who did it on Talendor would have reaped some sort of consequences from it.

Ok so VD's policy is that exploiting is fine unless you get caught and punished, or is that just your own personal policy? I'm just curious because I don't care to associate my character with people who intentionally exploit this game which I generally enjoy playing.

[Raavak]

Memblur should remove all players off the hate list. The mob would then regain hp at its non-aggro regen rate, which would probably not even tick since it is still engaged. At worst the mob should switch to attacking whoever is at the top of its refreshed hate list (not designated MT). As it works now it is an immediate reset to full hp (32k on most boss mobs). That can be 3x more than Complete Heal. Obviously broken and not how it was on Live at all. The mechanic that is broken is there should not be a reset on the mob health.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Ok so VD's policy is that exploiting is fine unless you get caught and punished, or is that just your own personal policy? I'm just curious because I don't care to associate my character with people who intentionally exploit this game which I generally enjoy playing.

Once there is an official ruling on it being an exploit, I'm sure it will stop being done. As it has been done to us in the past and there has been no ruling on it, we are left to assume it is a legit tactic. Otherwise we're left with a "it's okay when we do it to you, but holy crap it's EXPLOITZ when it's done to us!!1!" situation.

[Fountree]

Yendor, can you read or are you that stupid? We memblurred Talendor after we had the right to the mob through FTE, so therefore how can you say that "we did it to you"? Considering that you've done it 5 times, during multiple different raids, just to grief another guild out of a mob you have no intention for mobilizing for is a COMPLETELY different scenario.

[Raavak]

Once there is an official ruling on it being an exploit, I'm sure it will stop being done.
Its an exploit. Its not supposed to reset targets health. An exploit is an exploit from the moment it is shown to exist, not when there is "a ruling". Its well known, and the bug currently has a certain guild throwing multiple enchanters at opponents mobs. From the previous posts here it looks to be guild sponsored organized exploiting. Many times. Pretty flagrant.

Claiming ignorance of the law is no excuse.

[Zapatos]

Just scrolling through the forums: this post needs links. Evidence. Because suggesting that scripted encounters do no reset to 100% can potentially open up a whole new slew of exploits on encounters: preventing vox and gore from CHing during a normal encounter for example.

One could also check in with our fellow gamers on eqmac to see how it functions there, though that only gives us an idea of how it functioned in 2002.

[Fountree]

I'm sorry but how does the spell Complete Healing and its mechanics have any relevance to memblur? I fail to see your point at all.

And as for evidence, it is common knowledge that memblur caused a mob to reset on live, but their HP regenerated at a roughly 5% HP rate per second of being unengaged, it didn't completely revert back to 100% immediately.

[Zapatos]

I could have sworn mem blur caused casting to be interrupted. If not then nm.

[Xatava]

I find it unbelievable that vd's policy is to exploit as much as possible until a gm punishes them, and then claim ignorance. Honestly this is even stupider than the people complaining about getting suspended for exploiting pathing in blackburrow and claiming they thought it was okay because others did it first.

[Versus]

It was done by a different guild on Talendor as shown above and was never ruled an exploit, so it is being considered fair game in a non-CSR-assist zone until ruled otherwise.

Either way, an official response would be appreciated so we know how to proceed within the scope of the server rules.

For the record, that was our pull. We had FTE and therefore can cast whatever spells we want on the mob. IB/VD stole it off our puller. That's why nothing was ever done about it.

[quido]

I have a huge penis.

[Banbarian]

ITT: VD stands up to bullies, bullies cry!

I have a huge penis.

This is not a bug, its a common trait given to us by the 7th Hammer

[Silentone]

I am glad to see that you are admiting to using a known bug/exploit to gain a unfair advantage on a raid target you dont plan on engaging. I hope the ban hammer comes down on your entire guild for using such exploit with the aid of 7 to 8 guild members.

[Autotune]

Memblur isn't supposed to completely heal any thing.

Using memblur to do this is exploiting a bug no matter how you look at it.


GMs not ruling on a past incident on this does not mean it's not against the rules.

There have been plenty of other rules broken that haven't been ruled on, or are we to believe that they are also now legal?


Want a ruling on it? search for where Uthgaard said it was in the code for whatever reason and where Rogean said that raid targets+ were going to get flagged for charm and memblur immunity.

Exploiting a bug because it hasn't been ruled on doesn't make it legal yo. Keep doing it tho.

[Shiftin]

For the record, that was our pull. We had FTE and therefore can cast whatever spells we want on the mob. IB/VD stole it off our puller. That's why nothing was ever done about it.

You lost FTE when the only person on the aggro list was charmed. That moves a player from the aggro list because that player is friendly to the dragon. This is why you pull dragons with two people and why talndor shouted a re-engage message when our puller hit him as he saw talendor patching back home rather than following your puller.

I can prove that being charmed removes you from the aggro list based on a recent hoshkar when I get home to my PC if you like, but the logs of talendor using his specific shout only used when first aggroed out of seek mode kinda already proved this.

Saying something is established without understanding the mechanics of the server is extremely counterproductive to a discussion like this. You've also been told and chastised IB in the past for taking matters into our own hands. You are no less wrong in forcing a wipe here than you claim we were in similar instances. You cannot have it both ways.

[Autotune]

It was done by a different guild on Talendor as shown above and was never ruled an exploit, so it is being considered fair game in a non-CSR-assist zone until ruled otherwise.

Either way, an official response would be appreciated so we know how to proceed within the scope of the server rules.

i'm so glad you said this.

Who deemed that it was considered fair game to exploit a known bug?

[Wisetree]

We memblurred Talendor

[chief]

anyways....

[Xanthias]

This is NOT Rants and Flames.
This is Bugs forum.
Take the my sword is bigger than yours talk there.

This is a bug, Rogean said as much.
Just curious when it will be fixed.

Thank you

[Zeelot]

We would also appreciate a GM ruling on the matter so that we know whether memblurring VP raid targets to CH them is allowed.

[Raavak]

I've looked a little for specific links proving whether memblur is a complete reset in a mobs hp or not and found nothing in that regard (because it wasn't that way at all ever as far as I can recollect). Lots of discussion on the use of it in various situations where a complete hp reset would have been a quick raid wipe (changing rampage tank in Velious (http://www.thesteelwarrior.org/forum/archive/index.php/t-1679.html)). The only use for griefing was in order to win a "dps race" when one raid was trying to KS another (memblur AoW when the mob was already damaged and then disc it to death (http://www.fippydarkpaw.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1950&start=120&sid=63168358b293d8f56f4fe04564ca4f2f&view=print)) in Velious.

Found no reference in posted patch notes archive.

[fishingme]

You lost FTE when the only person on the aggro list was charmed. That moves a player from the aggro list because that player is friendly to the dragon. This is why you pull dragons with two people and why talndor shouted a re-engage message when our puller hit him as he saw talendor patching back home rather than following your puller.

I can prove that being charmed removes you from the aggro list based on a recent hoshkar when I get home to my PC if you like, but the logs of talendor using his specific shout only used when first aggroed out of seek mode kinda already proved this.

Saying something is established without understanding the mechanics of the server is extremely counterproductive to a discussion like this. You've also been told and chastised IB in the past for taking matters into our own hands. You are no less wrong in forcing a wipe here than you claim we were in similar instances. You cannot have it both ways.

It doesn't matter if he was charmed and it "dropped" him from aggro table. He was still FTE, still alive, and would be attacked once charm dropped. Being charmed is still being engaged with a mob. What you're talking about is a technicality, and by what you're saying it compares to a cleric dropping a DD and then casting DI. He is still FTE but it will take a few moments for the mob to attack.

[Zeelot]

This thread isn't a debate over that tal, but I had tagged the dragon well before the other puller got charmed. Yes charm clears aggro, but back on topic please! This is about the fact that mob CH on mem blur is not classic.

[Autotune]

It doesn't matter if he was charmed and it "dropped" him from aggro table. He was still FTE, still alive, and would be attacked once charm dropped. Being charmed is still being engaged with a mob. What you're talking about is a technicality, and by what you're saying it compares to a cleric dropping a DD and then casting DI. He is still FTE but it will take a few moments for the mob to attack.

that's actually wrong. Being charmed is technically no different than being FD'd.

All of this is beside the point tho.

A member used it once and was never ruled against.

now an entire guild (raid leaders) are using the bug exploit and defending it's use openly.

Can we please get the immunity flags or a direct ruling, or something.

[fishingme]

that's actually wrong. Being charmed is technically no different than being FD'd.

All of this is beside the point tho.

A member used it once and was never ruled against.

now an entire guild (raid leaders) are using the bug exploit and defending it's use openly.

Can we please get the immunity flags or a direct ruling, or something.

No, being charmed you WILL get attacked. Being fded you won't- one of the reasons is because you can choose when or when not to stand up.

[Autotune]

No, being charmed you WILL get attacked. Being fded you won't- one of the reasons is because you can choose when or when not to stand up.

being charmed removes you from the aggro list, just like FD. When charm fades you get put back on the list, like when you stand from FD.

[fishingme]

Trust me, I hate TMO more than I hate IB. Fact of the matter is the mob was stolen on a technicality

[fishingme]

being charmed removes you from the aggro list, just like FD. When charm fades you get put back on the list, like when you stand from FD.

Being FD you CHOOSE when to stand to be put back on the aggro list. When charmed it's a matter of the duration of the spell before you're getting attacked.

[Xanthias]

This is NOT Rants and Flames.
This is Bugs forum.
Take the my sword is bigger than yours talk there.

This is a bug, Rogean said as much.
Just curious when it will be fixed.

Thank you

[Zenlina]

In regards to Talendor thing, that was the first time anyone worked out that it Reset with full HP. So its not like we knew it was a bug and used it intentionally to screw with it, so using this as reference to past debates is stupid.

Since it was known bug/expliot after that and was supposedly fix so dragons/bosses/epic mobs were not able to be memblurred. And it is currently being used in such a way to mess with the mechanics it is considered an exploit and repeat offenders to my understand get suspended or even ban.

I mean if nothing is done its safe to say you can memblur any dragons/bosses in or outside VP cos you are trying to cast spells on it. Seriously...

[Flowz]

being charmed removes you from the aggro list, just like FD. When charm fades you get put back on the list, like when you stand from FD.

Charm removes u from the argo list, when charm fades u will not be on the argo list unless u are in argo range of the NPC, charm WIPES all argo u have, unless u are in range to argo it agian u will not be on that mobs argo range, Happened to me a week ago fighting EE"s solo in gorge.

[Seaweedpimp]

fact still remains, its not supposed to work like this. Can we get this fixed so we can slay vp again? Atm vd just pops in and memblurs our mobs. They cant even kill silverwing. Plain 100% grief.


Wonder what vd will do when they fix this?

[Shiftin]

In regards to Talendor thing, that was the first time anyone worked out that it Reset with full HP. So its not like we knew it was a bug and used it intentionally to screw with it, so using this as reference to past debates is stupid.

Since it was known bug/expliot after that and was supposedly fix so dragons/bosses/epic mobs were not able to be memblurred. And it is currently being used in such a way to mess with the mechanics it is considered an exploit and repeat offenders to my understand get suspended or even ban.

I mean if nothing is done its safe to say you can memblur any dragons/bosses in or outside VP cos you are trying to cast spells on it. Seriously...

Your entire first paragraph is patently untrue. See my exploit report from October referencing a faydedar where one of our chanters did it accidentally to our own mob. Not only did it happen in front of your guild, we joked about it with them and referenced it in a news update.

[Crazyeye]

I'm going to be coding in a mem blur immunity flag, and nilbog or I will go through all the raid mobs, including some epic mobs, to flag them for both mem blur immunity and charm immunity.

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showpost.php?p=521768&postcount=107

Even the bigman said it himself, he's going to do some coding. Assuming he hasn't found the time to do so yet. Give him a break till it gets done and call this what it is, an exploit/bug that should not be abused anymore than it already has.

[YendorLootmonkey]

A few things:

a) So far, the only ones calling this an exploit so far are the members of the guild that its being used against. Of course they're going to call it an exploit... even though they've used it before in the past and apparently it was okay then, and we're supposed to take their word for it that they honestly had no idea that would happen, because they've never used the mem blur spell before ever in the history of P99.

b) When you are charmed and then charm fades, if you are outside the aggro range of the mob, you are not on the aggro list anymore. Test it. It just happened to me pulling Gorenaire today, so I know it is fact. Therefore you did not have FTE on Talendor because your puller's aggro dropped, and you interfered with our raid by mem blurring Talendor. Nothing was ever done, so we have assumed it was not considered an exploit (although it would be considered raid interference outside of VP).

c) If a dev/GM can just pop in here and say it's officially an exploit, we will happily stop using the tactic we learned from TMO. Meanwhile, you all can thank Qados for this confusion/mess.

[Silentone]

A few things:

a) So far, the only ones calling this an exploit so far are the members of the guild that its being used against. Of course they're going to call it an exploit... even though they've used it before in the past and apparently it was okay then, and we're supposed to take their word for it that they honestly had no idea that would happen, because they've never used the mem blur spell before ever in the history of P99.

b) When you are charmed and then charm fades, if you are outside the aggro range of the mob, you are not on the aggro list anymore. Test it. It just happened to me pulling Gorenaire today, so I know it is fact. Therefore you did not have FTE on Talendor because your puller's aggro dropped, and you interfered with our raid by mem blurring Talendor. Nothing was ever done, so we have assumed it was not considered an exploit (although it would be considered raid interference outside of VP).

c) If a dev/GM can just pop in here and say it's officially an exploit, we will happily stop using the tactic we learned from TMO. Meanwhile, you all can thank Qados for this confusion/mess.

Have you seriously just resorted to trolling this thread, its obvious you know what you are doing, is this like a back up plan in case your guild gets banned? im confused.

[Kinosh]

No it was not in the classics, I see this as an exploit for sure. They need to fix this straightaway.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Have you seriously just resorted to trolling this thread, its obvious you know what you are doing, is this like a back up plan in case your guild gets banned? im confused.


What's confusing?

We learned the tactic from you on Talendor.

Now that it's being done to you, you cry EXPLOITZ.

What's confusing to me is the double-standard.

Awaiting a GM response so we can put this issue to bed and move on.

[AenarieFenninRo]

If Rogean posted this:

I'm going to be coding in a mem blur immunity flag, and nilbog or I will go through all the raid mobs, including some epic mobs, to flag them for both mem blur immunity and charm immunity.


Then Yendor's argument of this:

Once there is an official ruling on it being an exploit, I'm sure it will stop being done. As it has been done to us in the past and there has been no ruling on it, we are left to assume it is a legit tactic. Otherwise we're left with a "it's okay when we do it to you, but holy crap it's EXPLOITZ when it's done to us!!1!" situation.

becomes null and void. Rogean stated that it would / should / needed to be fixed.... which makes an implication that this is INCORRECT, thus a bug, and continuing to memblur mobs would thus be considered AN EXPLOIT.

Can we please now get back to the fact that this is a BUG REPORT and not a RNF discussion?

[Zapatos]

Your problem shouldn't be with the mem-blur line of spells. It should be with how raid encounters reset out of combat. Currently, the benefit to fully resetting is that rival guilds cannot hover nearby waiting for guild A to wipe, then jumping in for the kill shot while the mob is at X low percent (unless they aggro before the wipe, i.e. interfere). But that's aside the point. You need to show evidence of how raid encounters are supposed to reset if you want the devs to listen.

Rogean implied he would be going through raid bosses and epic NPCs to flag for immunity to the various charm/mem blur/mez spells, though he did not specific which, or even if VP would be affected. That would also be a different thread. For all we know, they may have already gone through flagging things and left VP unaffected, being a no-csr zone, to keep the element for forcing the guilds in there to have to learn how to play nice and share things together. An answer on whether or not VP mobs would be flagged would be helpful.

Edit for the comment below: VP is a NO CSR zone. Just like you can't train/grief anywhere else, but for vp, it's safe enough to wonder whether or not it will fall under rogean's flagging. I'm not being ignorant of anything, I'm just saying consider it's an option until something else is said or done about it.

I'm commenting here from a neutral standpoint, and I am not, nor do I have access to an enchanter. Nor have I bothered to train any of you angry people in VP; so no need to RnF more.

[AenarieFenninRo]

nilbog or I will go through all the raid mobs, including some epic mobs

[Xanthias]

This is NOT Rants and Flames.
This is Bugs forum.
Take the my sword is bigger than yours talk there.

This is a bug, Rogean said as much.
Just curious when it will be fixed.

Thank you

[Ambrotos]

All of you stop baiting each other.

As far as I'm concerned this is no different than the pathing that is being taken advantage in there. When it gets fixed it gets fixed. Unless Rogean starts making new rules and starts dictating the PnP in VP then it's fair game till something is said.

Don't like it? Work something out till then.

[Autotune]

All of you stop baiting each other.

As far as I'm concerned this is no different than the pathing that is being taken advantage in there. When it gets fixed it gets fixed. Unless Rogean starts making new rules and starts dictating the PnP in VP then it's fair game till something is said.

Don't like it? Work something out till then.

so exploiting known bugs is fine in VP? This is seriously the staff response?

As far as the pathing in VP, unless you just purposely died to mobs when they aggro you, there is little way to not take advantage of it.

and Afaik, not one mob in VP has been killed due to the crappy pathing, but i bet if we started doing that, it would be against the rules.

[Xatava]

Good to know that the exploitation of developer acknowledged broken game mechanics is considered fair game in Veeshan's Peak. Thanks for the clarification Ambrotos.

[Donkeylover]

So despite the fact that Rogean has already established that memblur shouldn't be cast on raid targets, let along ch them, we are still allowed to use it? Also nice to know that Ambrotos feels like VP is a bug mechanic ffa. So I take it we are also allowed to use mq2, boxing, dupe plat, and utilize established game mechanic bugs, as long as we do it in the confines of VP? Good to know.

[quido]

Acknowledge that it's a bug and I'll fix it for you =P

[Shiftin]

Call me crazy, but maybe they're just sticking to the mandate put forth by nilbog that VP is a no CSR zone, period. You should try it outside of VP again to test out my theory.

You guys really don't see the irony in training VD in VP for 4 hours while you were raid suspended and weren't even allowed to kill anything and then being pissed when they grief you right back? Really?

[Autotune]

Call me crazy, but maybe they're just sticking to the mandate put forth by nilbog that VP is a no CSR zone, period. You should try it outside of VP again to test out my theory.

You guys really don't see the irony in training VD in VP for 4 hours while you were raid suspended and weren't even allowed to kill anything and then being pissed when they grief you right back? Really?

no CSR = can exploit bugs? Does this mean we can dupe plat/items in VP?

or are you saying that training is an exploit?

I'm not following your Shiftin-logic.

[Xatava]

Call me crazy, but maybe they're just sticking to the mandate put forth by nilbog that VP is a no CSR zone, period. You should try it outside of VP again to test out my theory.

You guys really don't see the irony in training VD in VP for 4 hours while you were raid suspended and weren't even allowed to kill anything and then being pissed when they grief you right back? Really?

if you quit the server to go MQ it up on EQ mac, why don't you go troll their userbase instead of the people trying to still have fun on p99?

[Loly Taa]

All of you stop baiting each other.

As far as I'm concerned this is no different than the pathing that is being taken advantage in there. When it gets fixed it gets fixed. Unless Rogean starts making new rules and starts dictating the PnP in VP then it's fair game till something is said.

Don't like it? Work something out till then.

Cute, pathing is one thing- but something that Rogean said he was fixing months ago because of a bug report but never got around to doing? Classy.

Just about what we should expect, eh?

EDIT: My bad, should the server staff not be enforcing the exploitation of bugs that were laid out months ago? Oh no, we should make an agreement? Where's the competition in that? Ohh wait, the exploitation of this bug is being used to force the end of competition on this server? Alright, that seems legit. lol.

[Seaweedpimp]

I guess all the work done to create vp was done in vain.

Nobody killing dragons.

[Loly Taa]

I guess all the work done to create vp was done in vain.

Nobody killing dragons.

Last Druushk we had a parse of 58k melee dps on a 32khp mob, and that's not counting casters, but obviously Ambrotos prefers an unbalanced server.

Tell me VD, when's the last time you did 58k melee dps to Druushk?

If you want us to kill mobs with Velious style HP then just fucking release Velious.

Or I dunno, fix the goddamn bugs on your server.

[M.Bison]

I believe the staff gave you an answer, albeit it might have been too long for you to read, allow me to summarize. Work a strat or work a rotation lolz.

[Ambrotos]

All I did was give you what _I_ could do based off of:

Originally Posted by Rogean
After the first 24 hours of Veeshan's Peak, the zone will become a Non-Disputable Zone. CSR will not be responding or taking any action on disputes that involve the zone. You are on your own.

Spamming a bug report thread about who is right,wrong,exploiting it isn't the way to get anything done. I didn't even see this thread till I had 10 private messages telling me about it. This is why I mentioned Rogean or Amelinda are the ones to make the decision, and I couldn't do anything.

There has been precedent in the past about things that shouldn't be happening in game, but people were allowed to do, and some they weren't allowed to do till a patch happened. So I can't go around making ground breaking rulings.

[Raavak]

More examples of how it is supposed to work:

Enchanter uses pet to damage a mob near death, then memblurs it to kill it for full exp. But the bug here was the health jumped 25-35%. Good discussion on memblur and regen, nothing like what is happening on P99.
here. (http://www.therunes.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=6331)

Examples of memblur and speedy regen, but not instant full health
here (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=10&cts=1330610921410&ved=0CGcQFjAJ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.therunes.net%2Fforums%2Fviewt opic.php%3Ff%3D5%26t%3D3064&ei=0oJPT_yRK67F0AGKkIXRDQ&usg=AFQjCNEwMW38YodLCO3_YWrHNmatDkc3aA)

and here (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=9&cts=1330610995140&ved=0CF8QFjAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.therunes.net%2Fforums%2Fviewt opic.php%3Ff%3D5%26t%3D10694&ei=0oJPT_yRK67F0AGKkIXRDQ&usg=AFQjCNHcLhFcQuf_-oZkaonbXyHwiTLnTA)

and here (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=8&cts=1330611021733&ved=0CFcQFjAH&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.therunes.net%2Fforums%2Fviewt opic.php%3Ff%3D3%26t%3D2644&ei=0oJPT_yRK67F0AGKkIXRDQ&usg=AFQjCNE1KTTQERtXmM5Fs7rWFK4uDYP06Q)

and here (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=6&cts=1330611051565&ved=0CEgQFjAF&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.therunes.net%2Fforums%2Fviewt opic.php%3Ff%3D2%26t%3D10585&ei=0oJPT_yRK67F0AGKkIXRDQ&usg=AFQjCNGDlbX__4-5_QDXEyHJBHWzM1UokA)

and here (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=3&cts=1330611088030&ved=0CDAQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.therunes.net%2Fforums%2Fviewt opic.php%3Ff%3D15%26t%3D5300&ei=0oJPT_yRK67F0AGKkIXRDQ&usg=AFQjCNGZbIJFflxHFqdaV-hawhc50AHwJQ)

and here (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=11&cts=1330611202549&ved=0CCEQFjAAOAo&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.therunes.net%2Fforums%2Fviewt opic.php%3Ff%3D3%26t%3D6429&ei=9YNPT5bnAsGYgwf7iu3KDQ&usg=AFQjCNFnpw4G50xV3GVKl17YpwEvFNnVOA)

and here (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=24&cts=1330611288205&ved=0CDkQFjADOBQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.therunes.net%2Fforums%2Fviewt opic.php%3Ff%3D3%26t%3D5240&ei=NoRPT97SKsfwggeXxvHYDQ&usg=AFQjCNGRE_x7YFaUgMxWPVwEX18oEpqf-Q)

here, used on boss mobs (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=25&cts=1330611317141&ved=0CEEQFjAEOBQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.therunes.net%2Fforums%2Fviewt opic.php%3Ff%3D5%26t%3D8705&ei=NoRPT97SKsfwggeXxvHYDQ&usg=AFQjCNH-GP8dLKI6wNa-wOxWrVgquh1Ouw)

and here (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=27&cts=1330611347245&ved=0CFEQFjAGOBQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.therunes.net%2Fforums%2Fviewt opic.php%3Ff%3D2%26t%3D1758&ei=NoRPT97SKsfwggeXxvHYDQ&usg=AFQjCNFoUybw1WPurK1MUIpcaO2F0_DP7g)

and here, used to grief raids, but not like on P99 (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=30&cts=1330611380125&ved=0CGkQFjAJOBQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.therunes.net%2Fforums%2Fviewt opic.php%3Ff%3D2%26t%3D9622&ei=NoRPT97SKsfwggeXxvHYDQ&usg=AFQjCNGW1L-U1sFY8BJn9rTRQjG9_pb_xQ)

[M.Bison]

All those links you posted are from '03 at the earliest and as late as '07, well beyond the scope of this server. Come back with '99-'00 maybe '01 and then you may have found something.

[Raavak]

Nothing in the mechanics ever changed on those spells.

Memory Blur (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spellhistory.html?id=301&source=Test) and here ( http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/rawspell.html?spell=301)
Memory Flux (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=1714&source=Test) and here ( http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/rawspell.html?spell=1714)
Atone (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=480&source=Test) and here ( http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/rawspell.html?spell=480)

[Fountree]

I really wouldn't worry much about this guys... I think it should be addressed mainly because

1. It's not classic - mobs never regenerated to 100% HP instantly from a blur, and therefore, if we wanted to stick to the server's ideals it would be patched out. Rogean has said as much in the past, it just hasn't been implemented yet.

2. It is incredibly overpowered as a grief strategy in VP. It effectively CH's dragons, which makes them impossible to kill since it can be done multiple times.

[Xatava]

All I did was give you what _I_ could do based off of:



Spamming a bug report thread about who is right,wrong,exploiting it isn't the way to get anything done. I didn't even see this thread till I had 10 private messages telling me about it. This is why I mentioned Rogean or Amelinda are the ones to make the decision, and I couldn't do anything.

There has been precedent in the past about things that shouldn't be happening in game, but people were allowed to do, and some they weren't allowed to do till a patch happened. So I can't go around making ground breaking rulings.

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=57267&highlight=individual%20server%20rule


You're telling us that ninja looting is breaking an individual server rule but repeatedly exploiting a dev acknowledged broken mechanic is not? That's rich.

[Maze513]

There has been precedent in the past about things that shouldn't be happening in game, but people were allowed to do, and some they weren't allowed to do ...
/\ This about sums up my feeling on Project 19999


So what happens if I ninjaloot an item in VP ?? that is not a raid dispute
So when 1 member of IB zones in and uses a known exploit so another guild can train us... How is this a raid dispute? IB NOR VD are raiding in that zone or even have a raod for FOR that zone... 4-6 people not cutting it in VP.

So it would seem this is an individual using a known Xploit and there for deems CSR intervention... the same as if I was was to ninjaloot a item

[Joroz]

mem blur works fine, gods and dragons have insane non engaged regen like 32k per tick which kicks when hate list is clear. normal mobs are not in the class of dragons/gods so they regen quite a bit less.

[Jomar]

You guys keep quoting this:
I'm going to be coding in a mem blur immunity flag, and nilbog or I will go through all the raid mobs, including some epic mobs, to flag them for both mem blur immunity and charm immunity.
as evidence that this mechanic is an exploit, but you aren't quoting what it's in reply to:
Here's the ones there have been issues with so far. Some of those issues were issues before 1/2, but unresolved petitions regarding raid rules, memblur and FTE make it highly likely they will see the same issues in the near future - and that someone's epic will be affected by it.
Which was an extension of the original post:
Is it against server rules to charm / mez / memblur epic mobs, and loot epic mobs that you didn't kill / did not have permission to loot?

I am in no way Rogean, but I interpret that as in this specific thread, he is saying that because blurring mobs resets encounter logs (and thus enabling another guild to steal a mob they did not have FTE on/spawn themselves if people present are not running logs/fraps to dispute it, which is the topic of discussion in that thread), he will be patching in a fix (not classic) to flag certain raid/epic mobs as mem blur immune. It seems like his post is far more about preventing griefing/raid interference than preventing the mem blur = complete heal mechanic mentioned in this thread.

In no way does that quote by Rogean read like it means mobs should not be complete healing upon being mem blurred, and I haven't seen any other quotes of GM's making a ruling that this mechanic is an exploit, so until we see a ruling it would seem like mem blurring in VP (a zone where raid interference is allowed) to cause mobs to CH themselves is fair and open game.

Anyway, this is a bug report thread, so it should include evidence posts from the relevant time-frame of the server and such that this mechanic is not working appropriately. I'll let you guys get back to it.

[Ele]

mem blur works fine, gods and dragons have insane non engaged regen like 32k per tick which kicks when hate list is clear. normal mobs are not in the class of dragons/gods so they regen quite a bit less.

This doesn't occur on a tick. It happens the instant mem blur lands. The dragons are constantly engaged from the instant before memblur hits and the instant after it hits. If this was an issue of 32k/tick regen on an unaggroed mob it shouldn't be happening as the mob is reengaged before the server ticks.

[Raavak]

mem blur works fine, gods and dragons have insane non engaged regen like 32k per tick which kicks when hate list is clear. normal mobs are not in the class of dragons/gods so they regen quite a bit less.
Like Elethia pointed out what is happening is not 32k per tick, which it is not supposed to be either (see above supporting evidence, and there are pages more). It is higher regen when unaggro (like 15-25% per tick) but not instantaneous hit point reset, which is what we are seeing. The fastest healing mobs would be like Vox and Gorenaire that cast cleric CH, and that is only 8k (supposed to be 10k?).

I suspect the problem is not the spell itself, but in the mob. I'd love to hear a dev comment on this, for both my own play and curiousity sake.

[Raavak]

I have tons of references from EQ'lizer, Castersrealm, Allakhazam from the Wayback Machine archive, but does it even matter?

[Autotune]

mem blur works fine, gods and dragons have insane non engaged regen like 32k per tick which kicks when hate list is clear. normal mobs are not in the class of dragons/gods so they regen quite a bit less.

Ah I forgot they had that script to instantly heal them on a 0 combatstate. The success rate varies by spell. But dealing with the player who did it still seems like a sufficient resolution to me.


The script can be rewritten with a short timer before the heal to full happens fairly easily to prevent it happening on a memblur.

[Joroz]

Like Elethia pointed out what is happening is not 32k per tick, which it is not supposed to be either (see above supporting evidence, and there are pages more). It is higher regen when unaggro (like 15-25% per tick) but not instantaneous hit point reset, which is what we are seeing. The fastest healing mobs would be like Vox and Gorenaire that cast cleric CH, and that is only 8k (supposed to be 10k?).

I suspect the problem is not the spell itself, but in the mob. I'd love to hear a dev comment on this, for both my own play and curiousity sake.

first tick is when hate is cleared, mem blur itself does not have a complete heal included. This reported bug has nothing to do with mem blur, it has to do with dragon/god regen. and when a mob has 100k+ hp's after the revamps the regen of 32k looks like 15-25% per tick.

[Xatava]

first tick is when hate is cleared, mem blur itself does not have a complete heal included. This reported bug has nothing to do with mem blur, it has to do with dragon/god regen. and when a mob has 100k+ hp's after the revamps the regen of 32k looks like 15-25% per tick.

If you don't know what you're talking about, please don't post. Your dissemination of misinformation is counterproductive to the discussion.

[Joroz]

If you don't know what you're talking about, please don't post. Your dissemination of misinformation is counterproductive to the discussion.

well this would be a lot easier to fix if any actual proof was provided for the mobs in question at the time period. till then its not a one sided discussion.

[Joroz]

so far we have learned from the "justification quotes" there is a special script the developers decided they needed to put on dragons/gods to regenerate them back to full and fast. also learned the script "can" be changed but will it be. dead on info on dragon/god regeneration would probably make this a pretty quick fix if it is actually a bug.

[nilbog]

10 pages? jfc.

Modified, pending update. Not sure of all the specifics, but kanras fixed it up. Will update further when I do.

[Autotune]

10 pages? jfc.

Modified, pending update. Not sure of all the specifics, but kanras fixed it up. Will update further when I do.

Thx nilbog/kanras

[Loly Taa]

10 pages? jfc.

Modified, pending update. Not sure of all the specifics, but kanras fixed it up. Will update further when I do.

Thank you Kanras! and thank you nilbog!

[KentalCowtipper]

10 pages? jfc.

Modified, pending update. Not sure of all the specifics, but kanras fixed it up. Will update further when I do.

Thank you guys for all your hard work. Its nice to see bugs of this magnitude get corrected.

[Raavak]

10 pages? jfc.

Modified, pending update. Not sure of all the specifics, but kanras fixed it up. Will update further when I do.

danke shoen