(GM please read) Kanras: Removed extra tic from duration of most spells.

[Kelgar]

Bard dots last 3 tics and do damage 4 times, once at 0, 6, 12, and 18. This is how it always was on live. With the new change they are lasting 12 seconds, (2 tics) and only dealing damage 3 times. Mez/charm are not lasting as much time as they are supposed to, also 18 seconds (3 tics). Right now bard songs are lasting 12 seconds (2 tics), I have timed it multiple times, this is not right, please fix it.

[Lazortag]

Actually you're completely wrong:

www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=57246&

[SamwiseRed]

good find

[Lazortag]

Oh my god you're hilarious. You know one tick is 6 seconds right? So four ticks would be 24 seconds. If every bard song lasted 24 seconds you would be able to twist EIGHT songs at once, because it takes 3 seconds to cast a song. So you've contradicted yourself. As for the Bard dots, I posted so much evidence that they last only 3 ticks, so you're just being delusional if you don't acknowledge that. My evidence is incontrovertible, all you've posted are your own (incorrect) memories and attacks against the staff. As for Bard charm, I would love if it lasted 4 ticks, but you will never be able to find a classic source that agrees with you because you're just clearly wrong.

And you CAN twist four songs at once. Get good:

http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x413/itsnotrightnotright/twist1.jpg

[Sat Feb 25 12:33:49 2012] You feel protected from cold.
[Sat Feb 25 12:33:49 2012] Your song ends.
[Sat Feb 25 12:33:52 2012] The harmony surrounds you.
[Sat Feb 25 12:33:52 2012] Your song ends.
[Sat Feb 25 12:33:56 2012] You are more alert.
[Sat Feb 25 12:33:56 2012] Your song ends.
[Sat Feb 25 12:33:59 2012] You feel replenished.
[Sat Feb 25 12:33:59 2012] Your song ends.
[Sat Feb 25 12:34:03 2012] You feel protected from cold.
[Sat Feb 25 12:34:03 2012] Your song ends.
[Sat Feb 25 12:34:06 2012] The harmony surrounds you.
[Sat Feb 25 12:34:07 2012] Your song ends.
[Sat Feb 25 12:34:10 2012] You are more alert.
[Sat Feb 25 12:34:10 2012] Your song ends.
[Sat Feb 25 12:34:14 2012] You feel replenished.
[Sat Feb 25 12:34:14 2012] Your song ends.

Lastly, please tell me why the evidence I posted is invalid somehow.

[Lazortag]

Inb4 someone makes fun of me for the songs I've memmed, my UI, my hotkeys, or some combination of these things.

[Lazortag]

Perhaps we got off on the wrong foot. When i say they last 4 tics, I mean they do 4 messages worth of damage, and mez/charm lasts for 18 seconds,

They are not supposed to do 4 messages worth of damage. I showed that they did 3 in classic. I showed this for every single dot except for Angstlich's Assonance, which lasts 10 ticks. Proof: http://www.project1999.org/forums/showpost.php?p=489398&postcount=1

http://web.archive.org/web/20010611013116/http://everlore.com/magic/magic.asp?list=6&mode=list

http://web.archive.org/web/20001018041940/http://eq.castersrealm.com/spells/spells.asp?Class=Bard

http://crys.org/everquest/spells/bardsongs.asp?minrank=1&maxrank=65

The last one isn't a classic source, but since durations were never shortened it's valid.


right now, mez/charm lasts for 12, which means you can keep 3 mobs mezed, or 1 mob charmed and 2 mezed.


Nope. I can keep 4 mobs mezzed at once, and I frequently do. Then again I am the best Bard to ever live, but this should be possible for anyone. By the way, mez duration didn't change with the patch, neither did regular buff duration.



Point is, you can, in regular eq, twist 4 songs without a song fading. Now, in red99, you can only do 3, that is a problem. this isn't new information, you could always twist 4 songs.


You can still twist 4 on p99. See my post above.

[Autotune]

Jette > Giegue

[Lazortag]

seriously lazortag, get on a bard on red99, and try to keep up four songs, it wont happen, the fourth one will fade while you are casting the first one again, where as before, you could start casting the 5th one before the 1st one faded. mez /charm are ending before they should etc, just get on and try it out, dont get on another server where this new patch hasnt been implemented, get on red99 and try it

Red99 and Blue99 spells are coded the same way, but sure, I'll prove you wrong again. Give me a minute since I'm not logged in now.

[Lazortag]

Ok, look, it takes 12 seconds to cast 4 songs, at 3 seconds casting time each, but if you want to keep those songs going without one fading, you need 15 seconds,

you can screenshot 4 songs up if you screenshot at 12 seconds, but if you are going to keep twisting those 4 songs, you need 15 seconds to do it or you will have one fade every time

I was able to 4-twist without interruptions, so your theory is wrong. (edit: in other words, I was able to complete 4 songs and then restart that same 4-twist without a single song dropping)
http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x413/itsnotrightnotright/shout.jpg

As for mez, I tested it out and I'm actually not sure whether its duration was changed. I could mez 3 with ease, but mezzing 4 was very hard. I think this is because in between having to target the mob, fizzles, stuns, etc. you'll get mezzes dropping, but it's possible the duration was just shortened because I seem to remember mezzing up to 5 mobs in some groups on p99.

[Lazortag]

even with fizzles, you should be able to keep 4 mezed, but you couldnt finish recasting the mez on the first mob before its previous mez failed.

Actually sometimes I could, so it might just be the way the tick timer works? Either way it's like you can't read or something, since I acknowledged this in my previous post. Can we agree that you were completely wrong about dot/buff durations? Mez is the only song that might have been changed when it shouldn't have been. As for buffs, like I said, I was able to 4-twist without interruptions, and no songs would drop by the time the 5th one was done casting. Nothing was changed with respect to this in the previous patch.

[Kelgar]

no, you were able to get 4 songs up on your song list at the same time, which is possible, but that doesnt mean you could keep them going long enough to recast the first one and continue the cycle. which you should be able to in 18 seconds or even 15

[Lazortag]

no, you were able to get 4 songs up on your song list at the same time, which is possible, but that doesnt mean you could keep them going long enough to recast the first one and continue the cycle.

Yes, I could. Do I need to fraps this or something? I've explained this a million times. I even have logs for my first screenshot showing that I had all 4 up the entire time.

[steaks6]

8 years of bard on live

third will fade just as 4th hits , if you used melody you could keep 4 buffs up for about 1 second or less before first faded

[steaks6]

bards cannot keep 4 buffs up on live nor were they ever able to *

i did not play one here or in classic im speaking kunark + , id imagine you can keep 10 buffs up on red99 since its so buggy tho

[Kelgar]

anway, mez 18 seconds, level 27 charm, 18 seconds, dots 18 seconds (with 4 portions of damage at 0, 6, 12, and 18, this is how it is supposed to be, please fix it, and yes steaks, you could have 4 songs up on live uninterrupted, even Lazortag will tell you that much

[Lazortag]

anway, mez 18 seconds, level 27 charm, 18 seconds, dots 18 seconds (with 4 portions of damage at 0, 6, 12, and 18, this is how it is supposed to be, please fix it

Prove it. Why was my evidence not good enough? I showed that dots should apply damage only 3 times.

[Bkab]

gm kanras is a saint, he's never wrong.

[Nirgon]

Inb4 someone makes fun of me for the songs I've memmed, my UI, my hotkeys, or some combination of these things.

How about you're a faggot.

[fiegi]

Kelgar aka Heartbrand

[gnomishfirework]

Prove it. Why was my evidence not good enough? I showed that dots should apply damage only 3 times.

Witness testimony is accepted in courts of law.

Men have been put to death solely on eye witness testimony.

Proof is for atheists and scientists.

[Albane]

It takes 10 seconds to get up 4 songs, but 13 seconds to keep them up in a rotation. Your songs will always fade just before you refresh them. Any good bard knows that it is better to keep up 3 songs indefinitely.

Of course you can take a screenshot with 4 songs going at once, but it doesn't mean you were able to play the first song again before it faded.

[Nirgon]

Classic EQ is a source of tears for the WoW generation. Sorry everything isn't convenient.

Proof posted, change implemented. Live with it.

[Albane]

This message is hidden because Nirgon is on your ignore list.

The real issue with this "fix" is that now our DoTs are only ticking randomly between 1 and 2 times in PvP. At least before they would tick between 2 and 3 times.

[Diggles]

Classic EQ is a source of tears for the WoW generation. Sorry everything isn't convenient.

Proof posted, change implemented. Live with it.

[Lazortag]

It takes 10 seconds to get up 4 songs, but 13 seconds to keep them up in a rotation. Your songs will always fade just before you refresh them. Any good bard knows that it is better to keep up 3 songs indefinitely.

Of course you can take a screenshot with 4 songs going at once, but it doesn't mean you were able to play the first song again before it faded.

yes it does, actually. It doesn't take 13 seconds because the casting time is like 2.9 seconds. I even posted logs showing undeniable proof of this fact, in this very same thread. I think it's a little silly to insinuate that I posted a screenshot of me keeping four songs up to try misleading people. I have a 60 Bard on blue, a 46 Bard here, and I've leveled tons of others Bards on eqemu. Sorry but I'm just right about this. Your songs will sometimes drop, they may even often drop, but to say it's impossible to keep 4 songs up in a rotation without any of them dropping is just incorrect. If your timing is good you will see this is possible.

As for which is better (keeping 4 songs or 3 songs up), consistently keeping 3 good songs up is probably better than inconsistently keeping 4 songs up if the 4th song is chorus of clarity or something that doesn't have a huge effect if casted every two ticks. But this is irrelevant to whether it's possible to keep 4 songs up indefinitely. It is possible. I have no reason to lie about this.

edit: I'm sorry if this sounded rude at all, but if you look through this thread as well as the thread I linked in the Bugs forums, you'll see I've repeated the same thing (with proof) about a dozen times only for it to be ignored by people like Kelgar.

The real issue with this "fix" is that now our DoTs are only ticking randomly between 1 and 2 times in PvP. At least before they would tick between 2 and 3 times.

Has this bug been posted in the proper location by the way? I can't say I've noticed this but honestly I rarely use my dots in pvp.

[Nirgon]

ITT: Player ignores known truth sayer while continuing on his crusade of idiocy.

[Lazortag]

The real issue with this "fix" is that now our DoTs are only ticking randomly between 1 and 2 times in PvP. At least before they would tick between 2 and 3 times.

I just used chant of flame yesterday on someone and it ticked three times. I didn't take a screenshot but it seemed to be working as intended.

[Nirgon]

Hey look someone who knows how to play a bard posting.

Put him on ignore too, busta.

[kprobe]

Having played, raided, and pvp'd as a bard on live back in the 'old era(classic->velious)' I can confirm that mez and charm were longer 18 sec songs, whilst regular buffs were 12 sec.

Back in live it was difficult to get 4 twist because there was no extra time added for latency, which back then was usually 200ms+, leading to the experience steaks was talking about.

On red99 as it is currently, 4 twisting is np, its easier than it was in live.

As for dots, I'm actually unsure. Its hard to rely on subjective memory especially when its being clouded with emu experience. But I can say that there is a pvp issue. Not every time, but semi-often PVP ticks will miss and you'll only get 2 messages instead of 3. This inconsistency should be fixed, but I am unaware if this may be down to how ticks work.

[Lazortag]

I believe that sometimes if you're too far away you just don't get a message, but it still ticks. Anyways this is fairly easy to test.

Mez and charm were definitely not *longer* than 18 seconds in classic, though they may have been 3 ticks (or in charm's case a max of 3 ticks).

edit: oh I think I misread what you said. But yeah I think you're basically right.

[Lazortag]

Having played, raided, and pvp'd as a bard on live back in the 'old era(classic->velious)' I can confirm that mez and charm were longer 18 sec songs, whilst regular buffs were 12 sec.

Back in live it was difficult to get 4 twist because there was no extra time added for latency, which back then was usually 200ms+, leading to the experience steaks was talking about.

On red99 as it is currently, 4 twisting is np, its easier than it was in live.

As for dots, I'm actually unsure. Its hard to rely on subjective memory especially when its being clouded with emu experience. But I can say that there is a pvp issue. Not every time, but semi-often PVP ticks will miss and you'll only get 2 messages instead of 3. This inconsistency should be fixed, but I am unaware if this may be down to how ticks work.

The charm durations are correct as it turns out, at least for this point in the timeline:

------------------------------
May 30, 2001
------------------------------

...

- Increased duration on Bard Charm songs to 18 seconds from 12 seconds.

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/history/patches-2001-1.html

[kprobe]

The charm durations are correct as it turns out, at least for this point in the timeline:



http://everquest.allakhazam.com/history/patches-2001-1.html

Now that you mention it, it does seem like something they introduced in Velious, but it seems right, and in line with mez.

There are soo many bard changes that happened Kunark+ that are currently still in, lv 19 invis song having see invis, Jonathan's line of songs not requiring targets, Selo's not breaking root, or just broken things like Psalms not having DR/PR counters (http://http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?p=500505#post500505), charm/fear not in pvp. A lot of these things make sense, and are still in because they are truer to the classic 'vision' and balance, but now we're getting into the subjective already.

I'm curious what we'll settle with the 'vision' and for what time period? I'd argue the longer charm was intended (albeit quite later). But I'm finding personally the shorter charm to be more dependable in terms of timing.

Bards are generally great and functional on this box, but if we're gonna keep changing bards, let make sure we have some of the classic tools that work as intended hey? :)

[Lazortag]

Actually some of those things are legitimate bugs. The Jonathan's line was changed on blue I think so it was also changed on red, but it used to require a target on here (fun fact: it used to also bug out and give people 180 points of rune). As for the psalms, that's also a bug and they took out the PR/DR counters only because there was a bug where it was removing ALL PR/DR counters, not just 1. But originally on p99 it gave a damage shield and uthgaard changed it to the more classic version we have now before kunark launched. And it hasn't been fixed since then probably because it isn't high priority, but it's been reported.

Basically what I'm saying is, don't assume everything has been changed on purpose.

edit: also I'm still unsure of what the targeted mez durations were in classic. I think those were always 3 ticks and nothing in the patch notes I read suggests they were ever changed (except song of twilight being night-only until a couple months after epics):

http://web.archive.org/web/20010522061245/http://eq.castersrealm.com/spells/spell.asp?Id=1009
http://web.archive.org/web/20010522061343/http://eq.castersrealm.com/spells/spell.asp?Id=1045
http://web.archive.org/web/20020308201720/http://www.everlore.com/magic/Magic.asp?ID=123244&mode=details&spname=Song+of+Twilight&type=
http://web.archive.org/web/20010714075904/http://everlore.com/magic/Magic.asp?ID=4596&mode=details&spname=Crission%27s+Pixie+Strike&type=