Invis exploit?

[DoucLangur]

I am seeing a lot of cases where mobs get pulled with Circlet of Shadow thus that a SK/necro single pulls a mob by dotting it, FDing, getting up and instant invising. Then the mob comes with the next tic of the dot and his buddies not seeing the caster, will not assist.

I do not remember social aggro to work that way on EQlive. Circlet of Shadows was never that useful IIRC. It was helpful to pull a mob through a zone of KoS in that you could avoid aggro from the front (where you were running), but mobs would still join in the chase behind you, assisting their buddy that was aggroed on you. I remember training through some zones that way to get to zoneline alive (without being stunned).

I would like to hear some other (honest) recollections of how this worked in true classic, for I think the way it is currently used, I see it as an exploit.

Regards

Slozem

[Daldaen]

Thats how it works... unless the mob is social aggro or everything is a green con.

IE if a 40 Necromancer is running into Sol B tagging Solusek Kobold King with a DoT, FDing then using CoS and running to zoneline, everything between king and him should come with it... But say... aggroing... an undead froglok through the live side of LGuk should be fine...

[baub]

I vividly remember an old SK guildmate of mine pulling everything and its mother in Dragon Necropolis to zone in this way, granted that was velious.

[DoucLangur]

IE if a 40 Necromancer is running into Sol B tagging Solusek Kobold King with a DoT, FDing then using CoS and running to zoneline, everything between king and him should come with it... But say... aggroing... an undead froglok through the live side of LGuk should be fine...

Yap - that is how I remember it.

I vividly remember an old SK guildmate of mine pulling everything and its mother in Dragon Necropolis to zone in this way, granted that was velious.

Ironically, *my* memory is from post Velious release, so I was wondering if maybe it was different before that. But surely not then...

I remember running through Kael and occasionally with aggro, using CoS to invis through non see-invis giants towards zoneline, and pulling a huge train behind me.

Is it possible your SK friend just used that to pull rats or other stuff through the phase spiders? They aren't social to each other. And the phase spiders are widely stretched out, it's easy to pull though most of them without getting into range aggro, too. There isn't much that is hard to split in DN - you can mostly outrun stuff if you still have SoW - or later runspeed - then FD far away and have the dotted mob single because he wont walk back to spawn until dot fades.

[heartbrand]

You didn't even need invis to do DC pulls on live

[CallnOutTheNubs]

I would consider this a exploit in my mind.

I dont think the game was designed to say pull chardok royals to zl single... using his method but currently it is and alot of these endgame places are having there named deep deep in the zone pulled single to zls

[DoucLangur]

It's also game breaking in a way: You may have seen that there's a ton of shamans (including myself) looking for Spell: Bane of Nife. It mostly drops off sebilite juggernauts and myconids there. No one however does myconids when they can single pull the king. So the influx of high 50s spells to the game has basically come to a stop thanks to this :( Can't get groups together for juggs..

[Szeth]

Well Douc, single pulling king can be done without invis at all.

Unless you're nerfing sneak pulling to, in which case monks can no longer pull... at all.

[DoucLangur]

Well Douc, single pulling king can be done without invis at all.

Unless you're nerfing sneak pulling to, in which case monks can no longer pull... at all.

All I want is the classic mechanic. But yes I agree- it seems to be the same underlying mechanic. The first time I heard about sneak pulling was also here on this server. But as often mentioned I didn't play EQlive until Velious release.
However, a monk that can not split at all without it is a shitty monk though.

However, one thing is important and has been addressed in another topic to make splitting easier: Mobs that have been damaged usually stand still longer when losing aggro (FD) before roaming back to spawn. Thus a tagger or the monk themselves can get it single when adds roam away.

Regards
Slozem

[Arrisard]

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=1441

What I mean is, you can stand beside an aggro, non-see invis mob, while invisible then click this item. Your invis will be topped up and you wont have become visible, even for a short length of time.

Its a bit over-powering for pulling, which was why it was nerfed. You could invis, run through loads of non-invis seeing mobs, tag a mob you wanted to kill, re-invis instantly, then run back through the blind mobs.

http://vinceremo.dkpsystem.com/viewthread.php?threadid=974&newpost=1

Use #1- Pulling. This device is incredibly useful for pulling mobs while other mobs are in between you and your target, and they do not see invis. Step 1- Pull. Feign off any adds from the pull by darkness splitting, or if you have pet hold, Pet pulling. Stand up and tag mob, instantly click your COS and run through all the mobs that any other pulling class could not have worked around, and would have had to clear to reach the objective. This technique will make your life as a puller much more easy.

When I am pulling, I can click my CoS while running around looking for a mob to pull, tag it and instantly reclick it and not have to worry about adds while bringing mob back to group.

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/classes.html?class=5&mid=1124752814460118873

It gives you an advantage on pulling singles on non-see invis mobs that have a high social assist range. Basically, have pet up, FD, invis. Pet pull, stand, invis and run to where you want to engage the mob.

[Szeth]

That is how it currently works....

[DoucLangur]

Its a bit over-powering for pulling, which was why it was nerfed. You could invis, run through loads of non-invis seeing mobs, tag a mob you wanted to kill, re-invis instantly, then run back through the blind mobs.

The nerf most likely refers to the cast time nerf, other than that, this comment applies only to a part of the situation I brought up: There is no splitting involved in this comment, just aggroed a mob that is apparently single, then running through adds invised. This always worked on mobs that are not social. Poster gives no indication what camp he is talking about.

Use #1- Pulling. This device is incredibly useful for pulling mobs while other mobs are in between you and your target, and they do not see invis. Step 1- Pull. Feign off any adds from the pull by darkness splitting, or if you have pet hold, Pet pulling. Stand up and tag mob, instantly click your COS and run through all the mobs that any other pulling class could not have worked around, and would have had to clear to reach the objective. This technique will make your life as a puller much more easy.


This comment is somewhat relevant, however it actually mentions darkness or pet pull splitting, then the same as the previous comment for pulling through other mobs. It does not state you could darkness a mob, and then FD and get up again with CoS click to finish the split.

When I am pulling, I can click my CoS while running around looking for a mob to pull, tag it and instantly reclick it and not have to worry about adds while bringing mob back to group.

By "running around looking for a mob to pull" this comment most likely refers to outdoor zones. The way the whole comment is written, indicates that the poster is not worried about social adds, but rather about kill on sight roamers that he might run into, and that might actually range aggro on *him* if he wasn't invis.

It gives you an advantage on pulling singles on non-see invis mobs that have a high social assist range. Basically, have pet up, FD, invis. Pet pull, stand, invis and run to where you want to engage the mob.

Again, this comment mentions the *pet pull* method to split the high social assist range mobs, and we all know (or should know) that pet pulling was *the* best pulling tactic as soon as pets (during velious) were changed in a patch so that they no longer caught aggro from pathing through mobs. A pet that was a green con to the mob you were pulling and all his friends would be considered a "trivial kill" by the mob's friends, and they would not help their buddy against the pet.
So what the poster is describing, is basically that he singlepulled the mob using pet pull, then got up and ran back to group. The invis *may* have been used with the intention that you imply, but I know from my own experience that in 2005, this did not work. You *would* get adds if you pulled your mob past social friends that did not see invis.

So far I have not seen any old links that actually claim CoS worked the way it is working here now. No one talks about splitting mobs that way in dungeons, and there is a reason it was never done on live. Who actually recalls single pulling myco king through a full spawn on live? Do you think such a great easy tactic would have gone completely unnoticed on a couple dozen servers with hundreds of thousands of players in the high time?

I am still not saying this is *not* how it worked on eqclassic, for I was not around at the time. I just know I never heard of it, it did not work that way when I got my CoS in 2001, and I have yet to see indicators that it ever worked that way.

Kind regards

Slozem

[Szeth]

So he provides evidence, you provide memories?

Kind regards

Szeth

[DoucLangur]

So he provides evidence, you provide memories?

And you provide factually wrong and off-the-point comments?

[Szeth]

Where was anything I said factually wrong?

[Xadion]

Dont be jelly about SK/necro CoS pulling...its how things should be / have been / are ... no need to change anything ... its not a sploit its a tactic.

As stated...everything is working as it should.

As far as "memories" go...

Zland to zone in for the win!

[baub]

i must say xadion that new sig is quite delicious

[DoucLangur]

So far all I see is some "evidence" posted that was none, no evidence from my side because I was hoping for others to provide it, and a couple of posts not contributing to the topic at all.

I would like to see some feedback from other people please, preferably such that do not single pull big ticket droppers with CoS..

[Orruar]

So he provides evidence, you provide memories?

Kind regards

Szeth

It's not even evidence vs. memories. It's evidence vs. lack of hearing about it back in 2000.

[Autotune]

if you want to change something, provide evidence and keep the memories in your head.

Stop "hoping" that someone else "remembers" things the same way you do. If it was that way, you should be able to find some posts about it.

[Szeth]

ITT: slozem got owned by people who actually know their shit.

[baub]

You guys are mean

+1 post count

[Szeth]

Stealin gonna beat me to Planar Protector =(