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nilbog
04-22-2010, 12:08 AM
currently give positive faction hits to frogloksofguk.

when was this added? it wasn't in at kunark launch.

http://i42.tinypic.com/keyp9f.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/29w3lhl.jpg

LazyFuj
04-22-2010, 12:54 AM
As far as I can remember, this has been in since launch of classic. Back in lguk farming days I used to be non kos to the live frogs.

Gorroth
04-22-2010, 02:05 AM
Not sure if it's been there since launch but it's definitely classic.

Check the last posts of this thread (http://eqbeastiary.allakhazam.com/search.shtml?id=5315), people being concerned about live guk factions.

Heebee
04-22-2010, 04:31 AM
Yeah I was quite sure it was pre-kunark too - screenshots def say different though.

PearlJammzz
04-22-2010, 08:21 AM
Alla posts shows the faction in at the end of 2001. Anyone able to find patch notes that say when this was added?

girth
04-22-2010, 09:43 AM
I love the faction system in Guk. If it was in Velious we should keep it IMO.

Gorroth
04-23-2010, 07:17 AM
Faction
Posted: Dec 13th 2000 1:08am | IP: Logged | Reply to this
Anonymous
User's Journal
Anonymous Score: Default
drops Live Frog faction btw


From my previous link.

nilbog
10-14-2011, 09:25 AM
From my previous link.

That is stating that killing the evil eye will decrease your frogloksofguk faction.

I was interested to know when killing undead frogs would increase your frogloksofguk faction.

Bump.

nilbog
07-19-2012, 01:03 PM
perhaps only for named npcs?

http://i48.tinypic.com/2a8hnjt.jpg

Still curious about this.

Treats
07-19-2012, 10:06 PM
Could it be possible that the people in the screenshots were at max positive faction with FrogloksofGuk?

That wouldn't not explain why they are still receiving messages for negative UndeadFrogloksofGuk though ;/

http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20010627.html

Faction Fixes and More:
Following fixes have been added in the emergency patch of June 29, 2001:
Fixed the bug with feign death spells that was causing it to fail and sending a "Your spell has been interrupted" message.
Fixed the way that NPCs were treating pets. They were accrediting more hate to pets than they should have.
Also fixed a bug with factions that was making it impossible to raise some factions. There may still be factions that you can't raise because there are no methods for raising them, not because of a bug. If you get a faction message you will also get a faction gain (or hit).
Also added a message that will let you know when you can no longer gain or lose faction with a certain group. It will say:
Your faction standing with could not possibly get any worse.
or
Your faction standing with could not possibly get any better.

maximum
07-20-2012, 12:00 PM
Alla posts shows the faction in at the end of 2001. Anyone able to find patch notes that say when this was added?

The patch notes are notorious for missing things.


I cannot locate any Lower Guk screenshots from 2000-1 era to prove/disprove the faction hits. However, I did find this awesome thread with tons of Classic screenshots: http://www.fohguild.org/forums/screenshots/43384-awesome-classic-eq-nostalgia-message-voldemort-p1999-ginvite.html

Rygar
06-08-2018, 04:00 PM
Could it be possible that the people in the screenshots were at max positive faction with FrogloksofGuk?

That wouldn't not explain why they are still receiving messages for negative UndeadFrogloksofGuk though ;/

http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20010627.html

Faction Fixes and More:
Also fixed a bug with factions that was making it impossible to raise some factions. There may still be factions that you can't raise because there are no methods for raising them, not because of a bug. If you get a faction message you will also get a faction gain (or hit).
Also added a message that will let you know when you can no longer gain or lose faction with a certain group. It will say:
Your faction standing with could not possibly get any worse.
or
Your faction standing with could not possibly get any better.

Saving that quote for later. I think I may have uncovered a clue to this mystery in another thread, located here:
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5614

Basically, he is trying to raise his TheFreeportMilitia faction, but once he reaches MAX faction with the primary faction hit of a quest, he stops receiving the proceeding faction hits.

So basically, he needs to lower the primary faction (CoalitionofTradeFolkIll in this case) in order to continue to gain TheFreeportMilitia faction from the quest.

This was dated before the patch notes quoted. So it is entirely possible all hits in the world would behave this way until the 6/27/2001 patch in the timeline.

That would mean if you never hunted undead frogloks, you would receive Undead hit + Live Frogloks gain, but once you bottomed UndeadFrogloksofGuk (I'm guessing that is real easy to do) you would cease to gain LiveFrogloksofGuk faction.

If this is the case, could definitely have implications on refresh server (if you wish to accept this evidence or even implement this 'bug' at all). It could definitely affect where you hunt, quest, etc.

It certainly fits the patch message of 'impossible to raise certain factions' if the only way to raise Live Froggie faction was to kill Undead Froggies, but impossible to get non KoS to Live frogs due to faction floor on Undead.

Entire post listed here in case link stops working at some point:

I found this info on the Paladins of Norrath board. Some people probably don't want the negative faction hit from killing Lucan so here is a way to correct it. I remember Redi posting something about this quest earlier but I found this indepth info so I had to post:

Went looking for the link but didn't see it (I was looking fast) so I'll just repost what I had copied earlier.

Let me start by saying that to repair Freeport Militia faction is extremely difficult. If you want to repair this faction you better be prepared to spend between 12 to 18 hours doing mindless clicking (similar to any trade skill ).

The basis for repairing this faction rests on the Inert Potion quest in Erudin. Ill repost it again just to have it all complete in one messages.

-- START QUOTE --
On the third floor of the castle, Toresian Fhabel is waiting for someone to take an inert potion down to Vials of Vitality, on the first floor of the castle, and give it to Slansin. There are two people who you can give the potion to. Some times the correct person (with a single name, not a surname) 'spawns' in the shop and if you hand the bottle to him, you gain with several Erudin Factions. Usually (it may now be always) if you run this quest then "A Gate Bandit", [now also named Slansin?] will spawn in place of the person you are supposed to give the bottle to. If you hand the bottle to the bandit, the following factions go up: Coalition of Trade Folk Ill, Coalition of Tradefolk, Carson McCabe, Corrupt Qeynos Guards and The Freeport Militia. The best part of these faction changes is that it raises lots of hard to raise factions without lowering any others. You can do this over and over again to improve all these factions at once. This bandit is about L10 or 11, and it is possible that killing him starts a new quest by talking to one of the NPC's in the shop. Also, the bandit tells you that a friend will avenge his death [of course that is standard language], and if you take the boat to Qeynos after doing the quest, a guard will sometimes attack you when you get off. I don't know what happens if you defeat the guard.
-- END QUOTE --

The faction changes that occur from this one are:

[Fri Jul 14 01:30:48 200 Your faction standing with CoalitionofTradeFolkIll got better
[Fri Jul 14 01:30:48 200 Your faction standing with CoalitionofTradefolk got better
[Fri Jul 14 01:30:48 200 Your faction standing with CarsonMcCabe got better
[Fri Jul 14 01:30:48 200 Your faction standing with CorruptQeynosGuards got better
[Fri Jul 14 01:30:48 200 Your faction standing with TheFreeportMilitia got better

It is important to recognise that the primary faction is the first faction listed. We are going to take advantage of this.

Killing Lucan is probably a -1000 hit to TheFreeportMilitia faction. Kill him 3 times and you are pretty much at the lowest faction point (My guess around -3000 or -3500).

You really are going to have to do this quest a LOT of times. We are talking around 1500 times. If you try to run from the third floor to the ground floor and back its going to take you at best 40 seconds. I timed it and I knew that would be a serious problem. Time to improvise.

Conning Toresian shows hes red. Leave him well alone. However to a level 55 paladin, Slansin was green. Hes extremely low green actually. You'll need to call a friend in or have another machine handy at this point. Give Slansin a gentle stun and then run upstairs and stand next to Toresian. Let Slansin burn all his mana, root him, and then camp out. In the meantime, have a friend hailing him.

As you can guess when you come back he will be standing next to Toresian. We've suddenly reduced this quest from 40 seconds down to around 2 seconds. Hope at last!

Set up a hotkey with a say "I wish to assist Toresian." Ok now its going to get a bit painful. You select Toresian, click the button, drop the potion onto Slansin and hit trade. Now you also need to Hail Slansin so he doesnt wander off. Now just repeat this. Con him every now and again and see how your faction looks. The lower the faction you start with, the more chance you wont have to do the next bit. You will probably have to do the quest 900 times to get maximum faction.

The problem I faced is that I got maximum faction with CoalitionofTradeFolkIll well before I reached dubious with TheFreeportMilitia. The way to know you got maximum faction is that the only faction listed will be CoalitionofTradeFolkIll. Its actually showing an increase but its reached cap.

I needed a way to lower CoalitionofTradeFolkIll. Bit of searching on Allakhazam and I found the perfect quest.

The quest is done in Misty Thicket. The quest is printed below:

-- START QUOTE --
The Honeybugger brother's hand is hurt because he was swarmed by bixies while seeking honeycombs for his employer. Give him a bandage, and he'll thank you with some XP and the following faction: Merchants of Rivervale, Deep pockets, Guardians of the Vale and Mayor Gubbin get better and Coalition of Tradesfolk III get worse.
-- END QUOTE --

The faction changes that occur from this one are:

[Sat Jul 29 19:31:10 200 Your faction standing with MerchantsofRiverVale got better
[Sat Jul 29 19:31:10 200 Your faction standing with Deeppockets got better
[Sat Jul 29 19:31:10 200 Your faction standing with GuardiansoftheVale got better
[Sat Jul 29 19:31:10 200 Your faction standing with MayorGubbin got better
[Sat Jul 29 19:31:10 200 Your faction standing with CoalitionofTradeFolkIll got worse

Every faction goes up except the one we want to go down. How perfect can it be! The lower your faction with MerchantsofRiverVale the better.

Remember, you do the Inert Potion quest first, then do this one. You want to get maximum use of the CoalitionofTradeFolkIll faction.

You'll need around 2000-2500 bandages to get from dubious to maximum warmly. I bought 500 at a time and cost me around 35pp for those 500. Cost of this section probably will be 150pp. Not a big deal.

You can shovel 4 stacks containing 4 bandages to Honeybugger at a time. Gives 16 faction increases per trade. Very fast and effecient. You will want to do this quest until you have maximum warmly faction. You can use the single faction line to tell you have it capped out.

Once you've done that head back to Erudin and do the Inert Potion quest again till you have reached the cap. This will probably require around 600 times.

Now its time to take a run to Freeport and do the dreaded con. With luck you should be indifferent.

The side effects of this questing faction wise are:

Increased factions:
CoalitionofTradeFolkIll
CoalitionofTradefolk
CarsonMcCabe
CorruptQeynosGuards
TheFreeportMilitia
MerchantsofRiverVale
Deeppockets
GuardiansoftheVale
MayorGubbin

Decreased factions:
NONE!

Most of these factions will be maximum warmly or high warmly. These are normally extremely difficult to get factions too. I was warmly with the Dark Elves in South Ro. I was actually able to trade with them. That had me very surprised.

Thanks to the guy that came out with this post on Paladins of Norrath.


Syphor Frostwood
49th Paladin of Tunare
Rodcet Nife Server

-------------------------------------

Hope this will be of help to anyone who wants to fix the faction hit after we slay Lucan.

Kelel Strongarm
37th Paladin of Brell
---------------------

PS. What do you guys want to do concerning the quest? Should we head back to Mistmoore to get Wooglin a hilt to do the quest? I have my hilt, but the intial plan was to do this for woog. Thoughts??


Edit: Thinking on this, I wonder if only certain situations made this faction bug / hit relevant. I'm not recalling seeing only 1 hit in places like crushbone or mistmoore, but I never paid much attention... will try to find some old faction guides.

Rygar
06-12-2018, 08:29 AM
Quick follow up on this, not sure if it was ever discussed or fixed internally for refresh... but found another note confirming the froglok faction, but from a previous patch:
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5794
11/29/2000:
Patch Day! Off the top of my head this new faction change will help two things: Now you can fix your live guk faction by killing undead frogloks and and repairing militia faction is now a lot easier. After some guides come out on the PoN board I'll post links here to help anyone who wants to fix it after helping me kill Lucan

Should note that the above mention seems to be speculation on it now working, but at least implies it was not functioning properly before then.

This is mentioned in the 11/29/2000 patch note, same time as above post:
http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20001129.html
Corrected an older bug that would cause people to stop gaining or losing faction with associates when the primary faction was at its maximum or minimum. Players will now be able to further modify associate factions in the appropriate direction.

Should be noted that someone mentioned this fix was actually implemented in the 11/21/2000 patch but was not mentioned (not sure how specific your roll outs will be on refresh).

So if you don't plan to implement this faction bug on refresh then live froglok faction should be given day 1 from killing undead, but if you do implement, then it won't give until 11/21/2000 or 11/29/2000 in timeline.

Rygar
06-12-2018, 04:33 PM
Sorry to keep bumping this, just finding more confirmation as I crawl an archive:
1/4/2001:
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5087
Upper Guk - Don't worry too much about live frog faction. Many people do because they don't want to be hassled by live frogs on their way to and from Lower Guk. First, you are a rogue, you can sneak through Upper Guk if necessary and nothing will see you. Second, factions have been recently fixed and live frog faction can come back by fighting in Lower Guk later.

Timeline seems to add up to previous post.

Rygar
06-18-2018, 07:25 AM
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5269&page=4
4/27/2001
Heh, I only really went there for the exp, had no intention of getting the sash... but what the hell. Well, finally got it about 3 PM the next day. At about 6 PM, I hit level 49 too. And I went from threateningly to indifferent against live frogs in Dark Elf form in that time.

Should I stop bumping Mr. Nilbog?

isidian
06-20-2018, 10:28 AM
Rygar is correct. There was a period of time soon into the Kunark launch in which the faction "caps" were implemented and this led to the original faction messages that Nilbog had linked.

The unsubstantiated rumors at the time were that someone had "rolled over" their faction by hunting in PoG until they had good faction again, and the devs were trying to fix this.

In the first attempt to fix this, the devs did not implement it correctly. They were attempting to prevent anyone from gaining faction if they had too much (or from losing it if they had too little). The result was that the game would list the faction hits up until the point where one was too high/low and then stop giving the rest of the factions. As soon as it reached a faction that was not supposed to move, it just stopped the faction message. I was really big into grinding Cabilis faction at this time back in classic, so I was only receiving the message:
"Your faction standing with LegionOfCabilis just got better"
by giving bone chips to Mozo. This was bad because it meant that as soon as you had maxed (or min'ed) a faction, you would not receive any of the splash faction hits from doing a quest or making a kill (e.g. killing crushbone orcs would not help your Kelethin faction, even if your Kelethin faction wasn't maxed). In Nilbog's original screenshot, it gives the case for the Guk factions if the person had killed too many undead frogs.

This was fixed on Jun 27, 2001 by the following patch: http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20010627.html
This fix attempted to cap the actual faction amounts rather than to prevent them from moving. Now the faction amounts would be limited to a certain range of values, and if you tried to go beyond that amount, it would give the message that your faction could not improve (or get worse). This fix also took anyone who had previously been above/below the faction cap and put them at the cap amount (for instance, my Veeshan bard whose LegionOfCabilis faction went DOWN from amiable to indifferent because he was above cap prior to the patch). The end result was that some characters became permanently KoS in certain areas (for instance, my bard was now permanently KoS to ScaledMystics).

So I would like to follow up with a question of my own. When was the patch that implemented the first fix? Was it a stealth nerf? It might have been. I can only find the documentation for the second patch.

Rygar
06-20-2018, 10:50 AM
I linked the 11/29/2000 patch which was first mention, but was supposedly stealth on the 11/21/2000 patch per a poster mention.

It would be really interesting to see if Devs implement this on refresh or not. I think its pretty amazing that for near 2 years on live some factions had very serious consequences as you could not ever raise them again or was a huge time commitment to raise them (see the Lucan faction hit work around mentioned earlier). Yet I'm also curious if it could lead to benefits (such as being able to max out multiple different factions such as giants + coldain + skyshrine if you put in the work). Haven't thought much on it.

That is how life was back in the day. Do you mimic it or fix it? It would certainly hinder faction builders such as Aalderon (Perhaps his 'Bixie' faction would not be possible to get to Ally? or perhaps more work to increase goblin faction in order to continue getting Bixie off of kills?). Makes the world have a bit more consequences to consider, but is kind of a cheesy programming thing (as is the known bug of 'rolling over' factions for a period, such as going 'too KoS' would roll you over to Amiable or whatever).

isidian
06-20-2018, 11:07 AM
On that note, the final cap implementation itself allowed things that were not previously possible. For instance, now one could "trash" a faction only to fix it later. This was not previously possible. If you trashed a faction before the cap, it would go too low to ever reasonably fix (e.g. Militia). But after the cap, everyone who had previously trashed their Militia faction was placed at the low cap, making it at least feasible to grind it back up.

Not sure if Aalderon and I have yet come to an agreement about whether or not that Bixie faction hit was classic...

Rygar
06-20-2018, 11:10 AM
Not sure if Aalderon and I have yet come to an agreement about whether or not that Bixie faction hit was classic...

Either way, he has provided such a service for the faction system on P99 he deserves it :) Kind of like a title. Fitting he may possibly be the only person to possibly ever have done this.