Top Aggro Weapons Discussion

[ownrage]

So far in another thread we've come together and decided here is the current list of aggro weapons. The order appears to first prioritize the actual proc vs dps ratio. Some could argue that the sarnak warhammer belongs right under the Yak Scimitar since its ratio and chance to proc might come faster than the Yak club/sword.

Also this list is Pre-VP since only two guilds are currently farming it. Perhaps some could chime in!

Primary:
Epic
BotBDE
RMoY
Sarnak Warhammer
Yak Scimitar
Yak club
Yak sword
Silken Whip of Ensnaring
Bloodpoints?

Offhand:
BotBDE
Yak Mace
Trochilic's Skean (might be ranked higher than yak mace but proc rate is unknown)

[Daldaen]

It is my understanding that 1h damage is much higher here than it was on live, making the aggro gained through just normal weapon DPS pretty high. I'm fairly certain a high ratio weapon will beat out Yak sword or club for example...

[RahlaeRuffian]

Journeyman's Walking Stick is also good for aggro...procs Tashani

[Jigga]

unless the weapon has a modifed proc rate all weapon should proc the same rate regardless of delay. Example is the earthshaker strat and slowing yourself to almost 100% guarantee a proc on the first swing when extremely delayed. You are set to proc x amount of times per min. If you are only swinging once or twice a min then you are procing almost 100% of the time but still proccing just as much per min as if you were hasted

[Fianna]

It is my understanding that 1h damage is much higher here than it was on live, making the aggro gained through just normal weapon DPS pretty high. I'm fairly certain a high ratio weapon will beat out Yak sword or club for example...

Do you have a link to any threads discussing this or is it yoiur own speculation?

[ownrage]

I think I'm going to have to rank sarnak warhammer higher than the yaks...even the scimitar. So far in my travels, I've noticed a much easier ability to hold aggro using the sarnak warhammer than the scimitar of ykhesha.

[Daldaen]

Do you have a link to any threads discussing this or is it yoiur own speculation?

I don't have a high level warrior but I'm pretty sure higher warriors could confirm that melee DPS is decently high aggro here and proc weapons aren't as effective as they were on live.

[Jjlent]

i'm pretty sure it's the exact opposite of what u say daldaen, melee dps is no agro here and proc weapons are 100% required to keep agro. on live melee dps(fast weapon with good ratio ie. jade mace) was good agro whereas on p99 it doesn't hold agro

[Daldaen]

Hrmm... interesting. Could've sworn I'd read and heard that it was pretty easy to hold aggro with 2 wurmslayers or other good DPS weapons...

[Fianna]

So basically you are both speculating? Can you provide any links? Not trying to be overly critical, I am merely curious.

[fishingme]

Warrior aggro is all about procs, I'ved use a good portion of weapons listed above. I currently have sarnak warhammer + silken whip of ensaring. I've gone up against aggro with warriors lower level than i and they have won im thinking it was due to them having yak clubs. I'm thinking about making the switch

[Peppermintt]

Hrmm... interesting. Could've sworn I'd read and heard that it was pretty easy to hold aggro with 2 wurmslayers or other good DPS weapons...

I've got a warrior ~ lvl 40 right now and I can tell you this isn't true. Monks/rogs/bard/slower will still pull aggro constantly. I end up spamming taunt hoping it works. And that's with a haste item. I'm sure it'll only get worse as I get higher in level.

2x SSoYs is better. Without a proc, I'm playing the same spam game outlined above. Once a proc goes off I can /afk cuz I know I'm not losing aggro. I plan on upgrading to 2x clubs soon.

[Barrier]

This is a good discussion but what about weapons for aggro from 1-30 or so? These are mostly about 40+.

[bizzum]

This is a good discussion but what about weapons for aggro from 1-30 or so? These are mostly about 40+.

A cheapie but a good one is Smoldering brand - procs from level 1 with a DD so its decent aggro at lower levels.

[Barrier]

What about Obsidian Shard? Any good? I know it procs at 16 but for 16-30 or so?

[Alkorin]

You want a proc with a stun component wherever possible. The actual damage isn't what's pulling aggro, it's the stun (whether resisted or not).

Obsidian Shard is fairly poor aggro, but every bit helps at lower levels.

[Rogean]

Stuns by themselves were generally worth 400 aggro on live (I can't confirm/deny off hand what it is here, should be similar).

As far as regular weapon aggro, keep in mind that aggro is based off swings, regardless of hit or miss, and the amount of aggro generated is based on a formula from the weapon's stats (I wrote the formula into code a while ago based on information from the steel warrior).

[Treats]

I sent this to Kanras back in August when I was messing around trying to figure this out.

As close as I got to the actual formula being used from the parses on SteelWarrior and Evilgamer.

Hate cap on initial aggro was fixed awhile back.

Original thread here with the links:

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=39361&highlight=hate+generation

Melee Hate Generation

I've run tons of calculations through the numbers in this thread:

http://www.project1999.org/forums/sh...ate+generation

This is what I've come up with. It seems on P99 there is no Cap on initial aggro. Heres an example of how it worked on live:

Duoing in Karnors basement (Shaman and Monk)
Shaman goes to pull, stays out of aggro range
Casts slow runs back to Monk
Monk attacks once or twice and has aggro because of initial hate cap (as long as the slow was first aggro -- would not work if the mob aggroed and was running toward the shaman as the slow would count the full amount of hate)

Using an initial aggro cap of 50-75 hate this is what I got for everything listed in that huge post (weapon damage being the amount listed on the weapon, not what it actually hits for). Also each swing whether hit or miss uses the same calculation:

(Weap Damage + Damage Bonus) * 0.725 = One Hand Hate
(Weap Damage + Damage Bonus) * 1.1225 = Two Hand Hate

Probably not exactly how it was calculated back then but it's gotta be pretty darn close.

[Barrier]

Well, I just want a pair of weapons that will get me to 40 that will be decent aggro and will proc for me.

I was a warrior on live, but I started right at Velious and didn't really understand the best ways to get aggro until I actually had access to decent aggro weapons.

I remember it went something like proc pure hate was best, proc stun+dd was next, proc with just stun was 3rd, proc with a debuff was 4th, Proc that buffed you was 5th, proc with just a DD was 6th, and then just pure damage/good ratio was last.

So, may I ask a good dual wield set up that is good from either 1-40 or at least 1-30? Now, keep in mind, I'm normal and am not rich. So, two weapons at best together something under 10K at the very most.

[Alkorin]

That sounds about right, Barrier, with the exception (iirc) that a dd proc could actually be as high as #4 depending on the damage of the dd involved.

[Splorf22]

Warrior melee aggro is just horrible. In fact with current proc rates I would almost go so far as to say that for XP groups warriors are a broken class without serious dex gear. I did 5str/20sta for my warrior, if I had to do it over again i'd do 10sta/15 dex. Get dex buffs from a shaman whenever possible. At 50, the average fight with a group will last about 1 minute. With 125 dex and 2 proccing weapons, I get a proc which will usually hold aggro about every 40 seconds. So that means I'm tanking 2/3 of the time.

From 1-40, just use a Staff of Battle since 1H dps is crap and all the proccing weapons with good ratios won't proc.

From 40-50 you will begin to suck as a warrior due to no skill increases. For max aggro go double yak club.

From 50-60 the standard combination is Sarnak Warhammer/Silken Whip of Ensnaring. It's reasonable aggro/dps but -5AC is kind of annoying.

If you are super rich go RMoY/BotBDE (expect to shell out 300k).

Warrior weapon selection blows compared to monks who can get a tstaff for 50k.

[maverixdamighty]

i'm an ogre war and put all my stats into dex at creation. I have no issue holding agro with two proc weapons and i'm not talking about botbde etc. I just use sarnak hammer/silken whip.

[izule]

So ,this tread has been good ,a lot of info .my question what's a pally to use to tank/dps 1h & 2h.

[bizzum]

So ,this tread has been good ,a lot of info .my question what's a pally to use to tank/dps 1h & 2h.

1H and shield + their OP spells to keep aggro.

SK - Ebon Mace, Noctivant Blade, MoSS are popular.

Paladin - Sword of the Mourning and maybe other stuff but paladins are few and far between.

They both do well with their epics too!

[maverixdamighty]

Paladins mainly use spells but sword of mourning is good it has a stun proc, rod or mourning/lamentation are good 2hb with procs.

[Noselacri]

This is my knowledge from back in the day and I can't really say how applicable all of it is here, but I know most of it is still true:

- Melee aggro is determined by the raw damage stat on your weapon so that when you swing, you generate an amount of aggro determined by the damage of your weapon, not the damage you end up dealing. You generate the same amount whether you hit or miss, and extra damage from strength doesn't make a difference.

- Faster weapons do not inherently generate more aggro, but many of the best weapons happen to be in the faster end. It's also easier to lose aggro between swings if you swing every three seconds compared to twice a second, even if you generate the same amount of "threat per second." This led to the illusion that faster weapons were better when in reality they just produce a more even level of aggro instead of spiky aggro. Over the course of a fight, it's the same if the weapons have comparable ratios.

- Assuming an appropriately geared warrior and not someone with shit weapons or absolute endgame gear, melee DPS accounts for roughly 60-70% of your aggro if you have appropriate proc weapons. The procs are what put you ahead of actual DPS classes (hopefully). You can't really tank consistently with weapons that don't proc, but some people remember fairy-tales of how they held aggro with lammies or jade maces when the fact is that they were simply grouped with DPS that had worse weapons and thus allowed the warrior to hold aggro by simply doing better DPS.

- You don't want just any proc. It has to have some high-aggro component, usually a stun and sometimes a simple '+x aggro' gain (think Enraging Blow). A straight damage or DoT proc won't generate very much aggro unless it deals so much damage that the amount of damage itself is significant aggro, but that's rarely the case for warrior weapons. Bloodpoints aren't good tank weapons, for instance, because they just proc a 45pt lifetap which generates the same amount of threat as any other nuke for 45 damage, i.e not much.


Aggro/taunt works like this:

Whoever is the first to enter a mob's aggro list will be the initial target of that mob. To overtake whoever currently has aggro, you need to then have some amount of aggro above that player before the mob will switch targets. This is why being the first to aggro a mob is a good thing if you want to tank it and a bad thing if you don't. I don't know how much more aggro you actually need to overtake the current tank, but I would estimate that it's something like 20% more.

Let's say Bob the Warrior pulls a mob and hits it a few times. He now has 100 aggro.

Joe the Rogue commences stabbing the mob and does more DPS than the warrior, putting him at 110 aggro.

The mob is still on Bob because it would take 120 aggro for it to change targets. Once it does so, however, that player is in trouble because Bob then has to generate a great deal of extra aggro to get the mob back. If Jill the Wizard drops a big nuke and ends up at 150 aggro, Bob would have to get up to 180 before the mob would turn back on him. If Joe doesn't stop DPSing in the meantime, he'll arrive there before and the mob will hit him instead. This is why, when the tank loses aggro, the mob will typically go through several targets who were above the warrior on the aggro list before he can get it back. The guy who takes aggro doesn't just get himself killed, he might get the entire cleric line mowed down as well.

Fortunately, Bob can taunt the mob. If he succeeds, he is placed 1 point of aggro above whoever is at the top of the list, and the mob forcibly changes target to Bob. It circumvents the mechanic that would normally require him to get 20% more aggro than the current holder and simply makes the mob target him no matter what, but he still has only 1 point more than Jill so she better not keep nuking or history will repeat itself.

So, over the course of a long fight, the warrior's proc weapons will generally ensure that he maintains a level of aggro that's high enough to prevent the DPS from taking aggro, but it's difficult in the beginning of the fight because it takes so little to turn the mob. Once the aggro numbers are in the tens of thousands, nobody can take aggro with a big nuke or something because there's a very large buffer, they'd have to keep building aggro ahead of the warrior for a while before they'd surpass 120%.

[Teddie1056]

Trochillic Skean has been great in the offhand so far.

Just wondering, what would be better for off hand, RMoY of TSkean, because the initial post has TSkean as the number 3 and RMoY unrated.

[Deverell]

There have always been rumours that Ykesha procs had a 25% higher proc rate than ordinary procs (i.e. 2.5 PPM if default is 2 PPM, not sure if that's the actual default PPM) which was what made them such good weapons. I can't remember if that was just SSoY, though, but I suspect it would be for all Ykesha weapons if it was there at all. If it is, that'd be a strong argument for RMoY. It also has a considerably better ratio.

[Sylexis]

Yaks have both a nuke and a stun, which is basically 2 procs in one and generally made it preferable to everything else out there because of that. Eventually the raw hate procs took over as the most preferable with the Damage+Stun procs taking a close second.

[bizzum]

Trochillic Skean has been great in the offhand so far.

Just wondering, what would be better for off hand, RMoY of TSkean, because the initial post has TSkean as the number 3 and RMoY unrated.

Personally think RMoY is better, the Skean doesn't have great snap aggro like the mace tends to.

[Asher]

How does the Warding Star factor in? I know that Guard causes agro, AE agro I have heard.

Is the agro still generated if people in the group have a higher level version of the buff that makes guard bounce?

Assuming no one in the group has any other AC buff do you get agro per person in the group that it landed on for every mob in range?

I am playing my first tank so forgive me if these questions are stupid. :)

Asher

[Bwils]

Warding star is not good agro. I have tested it out. It is used as a dps wep. I am using rmoy and Blade of the Black Dragon eye. Those 2 are the best agro weps you can buy.

[Asher]

Warding star is not good agro. I have tested it out. It is used as a dps wep. I am using rmoy and Blade of the Black Dragon eye. Those 2 are the best agro weps you can buy.

I appreciate your input but you didn't answer my question. Perhaps it wasn't good agro because everyone in your group had a buff higher than guard and so the proc wasn't landing.

Was the proc landing on your group when you were testing? How many were in your group? Is it AE agro?

Asher

[Slave]

Guard is not an AoE buff. The AoE aggro component would be from you buffing yourself against any mobs in range that have you on their hate list. Buffs are very little aggro and so it is not a useful aggro weapon except where it pertains to its high DPS.

[iasus]

Bumping this thread for a little info. Can someone explain what the proc on Trochilic's Skean does? Does it stun/Dot at first and then only dot after every few seconds? or does it stun/dot and then stun/dot every few seconds after when it dishes out poison? Thanks for any advice.

[Jimhoff06]

The research I've done, via Steel Warrior and Live experience. Stun procs at some point were capped at 400 hate live, so they may be more now. A debuff is considered 75% as effective as a stun proc, or 300 hate. Rune agro is AoE for what seems to be double the rune amount, not sure, you have to be on the hate list for rune agro. Proc Damage is flat hate. As for Proc rate. Standard is 1 PPM at 105 DEX, 1.5 PPM at 205 DEX, 2 PPM at 305 DEX. It is a linear progression. Off hand PPM is Half. So, .5 PPM at 105, .75 PPM at 205, 1 PPM at 305. Now you know.

[Jimhoff06]

Trochilic's Skean should stun and apply the DoT. It will only Stun once initially, then just the DoT will remain.

[Combobreaker]

Damn, first real smurf thread I really read for tanking infos and was let down by title :(

Can any of you blue people please define Best in Slot MH/OH for Warrior tanks? - Thanks

We on red believe 2x Rmoy is best

[Peekae]

Rmoy prob best until you can land Botbde / epic / VP weapons


Seems most top end warriors using either Epic or Veldrak's Shortblade out of VP or Sword of the Shissar (BotBDE VP upgrade)

[Kender]

blade of carnage ftw. velious out tomorrow

[heartbrand]

including VP weapons, what would be best possible setup? I was guessing Epic main hand offhand veldrak or sword of shissar but wasn't sure.

[pharmakos]

^^ i think you want something with a faster delay then your epic for your main hand, for the damage bonus. someone correct me on this if i'm wrong.

[Nirgon]

Damn, first real smurf thread I really read for tanking infos and was let down by title :(

Can any of you blue people please define Best in Slot MH/OH for Warrior tanks? - Thanks

We on red believe 2x Rmoy is best

Sarnak warhammer is good.

Can't replace farming a midnight mallet per kill though.


http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/34504589.jpg

(I'm aware of the stupid axe too shut it)

[heartbrand]

lol'ed, but come on TMO guys serious what is best possible set up with VP weps? Is it the aggro epic wep with sword of shissar or veldak? PLZ 2 LET ME IN ON SECRET

[Nirgon]

They require mallets and have the item recharge bug in the game.

[Lorraine]

lol'ed, but come on TMO guys serious what is best possible set up with VP weps? Is it the aggro epic wep with sword of shissar or veldak? PLZ 2 LET ME IN ON SECRET


Just use which ever has the best stats (+hp/resists/what ever), the days where the Raid DPS had to wait for the tank to build sufficient threat on a boss are decades past. This will only come on the table at Velious - Once there, grab a Willsapper and never look back.

Blowing a mallet always leads to profit.

[heartbrand]

I play on red not blue

[Lorraine]

I play on red not blue


Midnight Mallets not available on red?