Dragon leash mechanics

[Nirgon]

Nagafen should not go further than the entrance to the steps that lead down when leaving his room.

Vox should not leash past the sliding rock that leaves her lair.

This includes distances that exceed that length. Aka thru walls etc.

[Nizzarr]

vox was never leashed.

You're right about nagafen though -- I think they changed that because peopel were getting first to engage on nagafen and just killed those giants while they had aggro and werent really engaged to nagafen.

[Nirgon]

Seems unlikely one would be leashed but not the other. I can 100% recall from live the case with Nagafen.

I never had anyone try to kill Vox outside her room on Live though, and she was killed many times.

Maybe someone who was in charge of pulling or doing it another way on live can comment, or otherwise post some related infos.

[Nirgon]

Gotchu right here mang.

http://ffx.allakhazam.com/story.html?story=20030




- Lady Vox will now leash to her spawn point should she find herself outside of her room. This has been changed to provide an encounter more in the spirit of the event.


both dragons should leash 100% confirmed! :)

[Szeth]

The above link says:

Patch Notes for October 8, 2009Oct 8th, 2009 at 4:55 AM by Railus

So...

Edit: kept reading and the Vox they were fixing was for the mission: Dragons, dragons, dragons. And afaik has NOTHING to do with original vox, or even a non instanced version of permafrost.

[Nirgon]

Wouldn't this be very similar to pulling Phinny to the zone line?
You can do that too but it is considered an exploit despite the fact that it was occasionally doable on live. I know people tried that on this server and were given a finger wagging for it.

How can anyone say with a straight face that warping a boss mob to a dungeon zoneline is a legit tactic? That's just ludicrous.

So far, no evidence has been provided that Vox was ever able to path through the cubby. As others have stated before, Vox pathing in to the giants hallway was never in question and is in fact something that even I remember as recently as late Velious.

The question remains, is skipping the entire dungeon something that trivializes the encounter? Personally I think it absolutely does. And if the encounter has been trivialized by taking advantage of a game flaw then it is considered an exploit according to the official rules.

[Nirgon]

Seems like an exploit that needs a fix. Leash dragons.

[Nirgon]

Interested in at least a yes/no for fix and reason to put 'er to bed. Per Guinea's comment, the official rules and exactly what it going on... other issues where she is pulled aside...

It is certainly an exploit, and this fix kills a lot of other associated problems / ways to exploit the dragons.

[Szeth]

Just saying bro, don't try to provide false evidence lest you get a mistrial.

If that happens your thread will join the abyss along with the rest of the discarded "bugs"

[Mardur]

Seems unlikely one would be leashed but not the other. I can 100% recall from live the case with Nagafen.

I never had anyone try to kill Vox outside her room on Live though, and she was killed many times.

Maybe someone who was in charge of pulling or doing it another way on live can comment, or otherwise post some related infos.

Oh god, another Bug Forum warrior who never played EQ outside of emulator.

Nothing in classic leashed. I don't remember mobs leashing until Planes of Power actually. And there's a difference between 70 people fresh to the game eating AEs & killing dragons where they spawn and the situation we have now where we have a fifth of those numbers and an advanced knowledge of the game. Nobody fought Cursed cycle where it spawned for example, it was pulled to the gate wall so people could more easily avoid AEs and control the encounter.

But yeah I'm sure Nagafen will go back to leashed next patch until they can hopefully sort out the pathing. Not necessary for Vox, though.

[Nirgon]

Luls. OK.

Have fun with your dragons!

Never played EQ outside emulator, real knee slapper.

Will you quit again if this is fixed? I'm thinking so! One less cheater.

How about fix meleeing dragons through walls etc :P

[Jirr]

Nagafen didn't leash, he just couldn't fit through his door. He would run into the doorway ae and summon people if he was damaged. It was unwise to fight him there because every time the tank was feared nagafen would summon and kill a dps or healer.

[Nirgon]

I know he couldn't get past that doorway / stairs.

[cyryllis]

on live we used to kill vox outside of her lair in the hallways, circa 2001. I dont remember her being leashed at all, at least during that era

[beowulf420]

Vox was not leashed, at least up through the majority of kunark. I don't recall ever fighting naggy beyond the steps leading up to him though.

[beowulf420]

Many times on live I pulled vox well outside of her lair to various locations within the zone as we tested different different strats in classic. Once kunark rolled around, I did vox maybe 3-4 times with alts/friends in lower tier guilds. I don't recall her ever being leashed in kunark (during the few times I went)

[nilbog]

I'm surprised that no one mentioned it, but the dragons were leashed on project1999 till 6 months agoish? It was trivializing separating Magi Rokyl from Nagafen and obfuscating the encounter log once he reset. It was removed for this reason.

I know he couldn't get past that doorway / stairs.

This is what I recall as well, whether it be a pseudo-leash or his model not fitting through the doorway. I have seen maybe.. 75 classic screenshots of dead Nagafen, never past that doorway. Does anyone have any other evidence to provide for this? Can you currently pull Nagafen outside his room on eqlive ?

If this is needed, which I think it is, then I'll work on a way to restrict him to his lair without trivializing pulls or obfuscating logs.

[nilbog]

This is what I recall as well, whether it be a pseudo-leash or his model not fitting through the doorway. I have seen maybe.. 75 classic screenshots of dead Nagafen, never past that doorway. Does anyone have any other evidence to provide for this? Can you currently pull Nagafen outside his room on eqlive ?



2002....
Most importantly, and this caused my first Nagafen attempt to wipe, there are 3 giants INSIDE NAGAFEN'S LAIR. Magus Rokyl and 2 warriors. these must be pulled out, and whoever pulled them must camp to clear Nagafen aggro. NAGAFEN CANNOT LEAVE HIS LAIR. Once you get back outside (not sure how far out) he cannot pursue you. To check to see if Nagafen is aggroed on someone, target him (bind sight is one good way) then /assist. if you get someone, obviously he is aggroed.http://www.monkly-business.net/forums/showthread.php?t=8786

bump

[Amelinda]

Plenty of times in killing vox and nagafen on live i can tell you that neither one ever left their lair.

I see someone else says that vox could leave her lair - i can't TELL You how many times my monk puller agroed vox and ran back to us pulling ice giants back and got us all AE'd because vox's AE somehow hit us - but i never saw her leave her room.

Naggy definitely coudl NOT leave his room.

[Daldaen]

I'm surprised that no one mentioned it, but the dragons were leashed on project1999 till 6 months agoish? It was trivializing separating Magi Rokyl from Nagafen and obfuscating the encounter log once he reset. It was removed for this reason.



This is what I recall as well, whether it be a pseudo-leash or his model not fitting through the doorway. I have seen maybe.. 75 classic screenshots of dead Nagafen, never past that doorway. Does anyone have any other evidence to provide for this? Can you currently pull Nagafen outside his room on eqlive ?

If this is needed, which I think it is, then I'll work on a way to restrict him to his lair without trivializing pulls or obfuscating logs.

On live I have a 52 monk who I often solo Nagafen with (Lots of Velious God loot and such). I have been able to pull him to the draw bridge after King Tranix chamber.

Also when he runs (which he does to my 52 monk dunno if classic) he will path out of lair where I'm fighting him, down past the dragon skull entry to his lair, down to the draw bridge once he gets to the draw bridge he turns around and paths back.

[Nirgon]

http://www.monkly-business.net/forums/showthread.php?t=8786

bump

I'd also bump this


And [B]if the encounter has been trivialized by taking advantage of a game flaw then it is considered an exploit according to the official rules.


Using a wall to dodge aoe's? Sure! Fine!
Using a wall to get the mob unable to cast aoe's? No.
Attacking a mob through a certain wall in the zone that it shouldn't be able to go anywhere near in the first place? No, but unfortunately this is a point I should raise and clarify.

The fix:
Pull Naggy past the first doorway? No.
Pull Vox to zone in? Uh, no. I'm not 100% sure where the buck stops on that one, but going on the above logic... she definitely shouldn't be getting through the gate that leads into the goblin elite room before the ice giants. It's like a freaking mouse hole compared to a dragon. There's a wall at the ice giants for dodging AOE that is JUST FINE and I'm pretty sure she should be able to reach.

[Brinkman]

On live I have a 52 monk who I often solo Nagafen with (Lots of Velious God loot and such). I have been able to pull him to the draw bridge after King Tranix chamber.

Also when he runs (which he does to my 52 monk dunno if classic) he will path out of lair where I'm fighting him, down past the dragon skull entry to his lair, down to the draw bridge once he gets to the draw bridge he turns around and paths back.

In 2001 I did a true solo of naggy with a 52 epic iksar monk ( words of healing and calimony pots )

When he ran ( which was classic once he got to 10% ) he got stuck in the doorway for a while, then continued down the stairs and through the halls before I finally got the last 10% off him. So yeah, in 2001 at least, he was not leashed.

I do have old Screen shots of this, but they are on my old PC which was reformated since then, would need a computer geek to recover.

[Dolalin]

Linking evidence found here to this issue (explicit mentions that Naggy never left his lair, he'd get stuck on the doorway and run against it forever):

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=339018&page=2