An idea to address long term retention

[One Tin Soldier]

We all know that there is going to be a problem for this server eventually. People will run out of things to do and the population will drop off. I would say it's already started happening, in fact, but it's likely people will come back again to check out velious when that gets released. But after that---what then?

Ok, I've been thinking about it and have a suggestion. It might not be the greatest idea and it's non-classic but I'll toss it out there anyway. In muds there was a thing called remorting which just meant dropping your high level character back to level 1 in exchange for some reward. So, basically that's my suggestion.

Have a remorting week (or two) during which any character of level 50 or higher can drop back to level one. For doing this you would either get an item reward (would have to be worth getting obviously) or points which could be used to buy items. Maybe put a remort vendor in the Temple of Solosek Ro. If points/vendor system is used then characters of level 50 would get X points to spend and those above 50 would get X+(whatever per level above 50).

Allow this just during a one to three week window of time so that everyone who does it would do it more or less simultaneously. That way we could all go up through the levels again together.

There it is, that's my bright idea. Love it? Hate it? Hey, at least I tried to come up with something.

[Autotune]

we'd all be powerleveling toons to remort gear. On that note, dragon's might live longer.

[cmdrrickhunter]

This is forever a problem with games. The first to actually discover the solution to this will be a rich company.

I don't believe growing power levels will solve the problem. I've named the dilemma the DragonBallZ dilemma, in my own work. People are not attracted to +X power (for whatever units we use for power), they are attracted to +%X power. They are interested in the exchange "for 1 month of my time, I can become 10% stronger." The result is exponential growth like we see in WoW. In DBZ, this showed up as power levels in the thousands when the idea of "power levels" was introduced, and by the end they had trouble even measuring large enough numbers due to the exponential growth.

Personally, I believe the solution exists with dynamic GM run worlds, but those require manpower, and manpower is pricey for a free server. The only other solution I have seen is the creation of player driven worlds, but EVE is the only game I've seen complicated enough to pull it off.

[Dravingar]

I'm sure for most people aka anyone with an exp penalty, the thought of leveling from 1-60 is about as enticing as a ball peen hammer to the scrotum.

Main problem with server retention is the fact that Kunark is a boring as shit expansion.

[nalkin]

One thing I thought was cool which could add to some people playing was when they had the red v blue capture the flag. They should have a battlground which splits people up into teams where they can pvp and play capture the flag. It was alot of fun and had alot of potential... don't know why they took it out.

[ShipIt]

Velious for the win!

[Grozmok]

As long there are competent players to group with from 1-60, I would have kept playing the game back when I quit in 2004.

The same holds true for me here. Shit, I'm even considering donating $100 to keep the servers running so long as the player base holds...

[RahlaeRuffian]

Velious is rich with content. Everyone knows that. The majority of the player base however has not experienced all that Kunark, let alone classic EQ has to offer. Not to say that I cannot wait til Velious is released, but there are still a majority of p99'ers that haven't even been to the planes yet, let alone experienced any raid content whatsoever. Velious would definitely bring out more people and the size of the server would grow, but what would be the point if this server is supposed to provide the most classic EQ experience anyone can get if an expansion as great as Velious is delivered to the masses too early? Not to knock your idea or anything about being able to drop back to lvl one for one piece of loot, but there also exists on this server a very large number of people who have put in countless hours to get their characters to where they are now. The population only falls off during certain times of the year as far as I can tell (college picking back up, etc.) so I think the implementation of Red has only affected the Blue server minutely at best. The server's casual players need a couple of months to catch up to the more hardcore players/guilds and, well lets be honest it will take much longer than that. However, I don't think it's worth overlooking what can be accomplished with the size of the player base on the server currently and the degree of more equality that can be achieved by the time that Velious is actually launched.

[fischsemmel]

Velious is rich with content. Everyone knows that. The majority of the player base however has not experienced all that Kunark, let alone classic EQ has to offer. Not to say that I cannot wait til Velious is released, but there are still a majority of p99'ers that haven't even been to the planes yet, let alone experienced any raid content whatsoever.

The current situation on the server doesn't really promote exposing many people to raid content. Sure, sure, if you really want to raid, anyone can roll up a wizard or rogue or bard or cleric and get 55+ and join one of the guilds that's doing some real raiding.

But for all the other players, that majority who would like to kill a couple gods or dragons or just finish an easy epic, but who want to stay guilded with their friends or who don't want to be batphoning and poopsocking and such? Yeah... they're never going to see raid content on here.

So arguing that velious should be held off so that players can go see all of the classic and kunark content... yeah. Not so much.

[Flunklesnarkin]

The current situation on the server doesn't really promote exposing many people to raid content. Sure, sure, if you really want to raid, anyone can roll up a wizard or rogue or bard or cleric and get 55+ and join one of the guilds that's doing some real raiding.

But for all the other players, that majority who would like to kill a couple gods or dragons or just finish an easy epic, but who want to stay guilded with their friends or who don't want to be batphoning and poopsocking and such? Yeah... they're never going to see raid content on here.

So arguing that velious should be held off so that players can go see all of the classic and kunark content... yeah. Not so much.

Idk... i think a new guild could form and be raid capable... if people remained loyal to it.. not just jump ship as soon as they get an invite to a better guild.


It's more fun to watch a guild grow than jump into a top tier guild and receive hand me downs imo.

[One Tin Soldier]

In the interests of full disclosure I should admit that I'm one of those people who will never see any raid content on this server. So, yes, my suggestion was motivated purely by my own selfish desire to have something more to do. At this point with my main I'm basically done with the server and leveling alts is too boring when there aren't enough other people around at my level.

I quit playing last spring or early summer. I came back for the red server but that was a bust as far as I'm concerned (low population=no fun). So now what? My main is 53 but I explained in another thread why I lose interest as I approach max level. It seems pointless to grind out those last levels just so I can retire him at 60. I've logged in with a level 20ish alt a few times lately but the low level game is too dead and soloing is too boring.

I'll admit even I have some doubts about my suggestion but I was just trying to come up with something. As it stands right now I have no desire to log in and play and I'm basically just waiting for Velious so I can revisit some of those zones. If we could get a whole wave of people all going up through the levels again I could ride that wave and have fun again for a while.

[Fazlazen]

For a guise, maybe i'd be willing to lvl to 60 again.... Hmmm I dunno

[Flunklesnarkin]

In the interests of full disclosure I should admit that I'm one of those people who will never see any raid content on this server. So, yes, my suggestion was motivated purely by my own selfish desire to have something more to do. At this point with my main I'm basically done with the server and leveling alts is too boring when there aren't enough other people around at my level.

I quit playing last spring or early summer. I came back for the red server but that was a bust as far as I'm concerned (low population=no fun). So now what? My main is 53 but I explained in another thread why I lose interest as I approach max level. It seems pointless to grind out those last levels just so I can retire him at 60. I've logged in with a level 20ish alt a few times lately but the low level game is too dead and soloing is too boring.

I'll admit even I have some doubts about my suggestion but I was just trying to come up with something. As it stands right now I have no desire to log in and play and I'm basically just waiting for Velious so I can revisit some of those zones. If we could get a whole wave of people all going up through the levels again I could ride that wave and have fun again for a while.

It sounds more like there are things to do in p99 but you have no interest in accomplishing.

Maybe you could try another game for a while then come back if you get the feeling for p99 again.


Could also play more than one game at a time.. nothing says you gotta be exclusive to p99... (i don't see a ring on that finger ;p)

[Grozmok]

Raiding is what killed the game in the first place.

Let's not repeat history, shall we?

:D

[One Tin Soldier]

It sounds more like there are things to do in p99 but you have no interest in accomplishing.

Yes, that's about right. I have no interest in grinding out the last seven levels on my main just so I can get him to 60 before I retire him. If I felt like there was something for me to do after I reached 60 then I would probably be motivated to continue. But as things stand right now there isn't anything for me to do at 60...and I know it....so I have no motivation to go on.

Maybe you could try another game for a while then come back if you get the feeling for p99 again.

Yep, I did that. I went to play on the Daoc emulator. I had never played that game before so I wanted to try it. It was ok but I can't say it really grabbed me and sucked me in. I lost interest in it after a while.


Could also play more than one game at a time.. nothing says you gotta be exclusive to p99... (i don't see a ring on that finger ;p)

Yes I understand that. I'm not as stupid as I look, you know. I'll probably buy Guild Wars 2 when it releases and there is another emulator I've been thinking about trying. But playing other games won't change the problem I have here. The problem quite simply being that I enjoy the game from level 1 to 50ish if there are lots of other people playing around my level but after that I lose interest due to the aforementioned reason.

I mean, it's not a big deal or anything, I can find other games to play. But I can't be the only one who feels this way and sooner later everyone is going to run into a similar problem.

[Flunklesnarkin]

Wasn't trying to beat you up man... its just what i do when i get frustrated or bored of a game... I try another until I get the itch to go back.

[cmdrrickhunter]

At this point with my main I'm basically done with the server and leveling alts is too boring when there aren't enough other people around at my level.

I'm going to suggest something very "off the wall," so take it or leave it: try Roleplaying.

EQ, like every MMO I've seen (other than EVE) is patterned after single player games where you play a bit, get more powerful, reach an ending, then put the game down. Only they don't want you to put the game down, so they add something like raiding which slows down the "get more powerful" phase asymptotically so that you never "reach an ending."

WoW (might as well discuss everything, even the "hated enemy") tried to solve this once with dailies. Their solution there was "make the game so much fun to play that you don't mind sitting still with no progression. It almost worked... got darn close.

The only solution I have seen is to build your own game within the game, and that's what RPing accomplishes. Make your character into something more than two dozen numbers and 75ish polygons. Use your imagination to go beyond the game, and then you're only limited by your own imagination, not the game mechanics.

When I RPed on live, I knew a cookie vendor who would do nothing but wander around the EC auction area, selling cookies. For fun, he even invented his own quest (complete with text in [brackets]) to get people to interact with him more. I, myself, was a shapeshifter for a few months. Its terribly amusing playing an enchanter who wants to melee in illusionary forms.

Of course, RP requires a culture who is willing to play along and make things interesting... one RPer often gets laughed at, but in my opinion its the highest form of play EQ allows. It harkens back to the original purpose of DnD. And it needs not a second of time from our illustrious developers, leaving them all the time they need to keep the poor raiders on the treadmill.

[One Tin Soldier]

I'm going to suggest something very "off the wall," so take it or leave it: try Roleplaying.

I wish that could work for me but I know myself well enough to know that it wouldn't. I think I'd feel a little too much like Don Quixote; a madman wandering around pretending to see things which aren't really there.

The inability to ever actually change things in the static world makes any attempt at roleplaying a little silly in my opinion. I mean, in a truly player run world with a player run economy I could see roleplaying happening almost accidentaly as a natural consequence of the game's dynamics. But EQ is not that world.

Anyway, I know it wouldn't work for me as a long term solution. Even if I could find people to do it with, it wouldn't hold me long. Really, how many times would people be willing to listen to my tale of being the rightfull heir to the throne of Qeynos and how I have a heriditary birthmark on my left butt cheek which proves it. And for that matter, how many times would I be willing to tell the story even if someone was listening? I'm afraid it would quickly go stale.

[Mardur]

EZ Server has remorting and it's terrible because you have to grind 1-75 or whatever the max is there 100 times to do raid content.

[Ryba]

When the original p99 runs out of expansion material, double-down on the server and allow people at level cap on old p99 to trade in their character for a modestly geared level 30 of any class on a new p99 running vanilla EQ. Then just follow the same progression timeline as before.

It fragments the population, but so does doing nothing. I would say release Luclin if it was possible to leave out the cats.

[bluejam]

Velious: massive content, will keep people busy for a loooooong time, raiders and non-raiders alike. All those tiny and big quests, events, raids, fun zones to explore (ToFS <3). The old raid targets (classic + kunark) minus a few high profile encounters will be left alone by the top guilds, so lower guilds can explore new playing fields. Hell, Vox had been up for more than 3h today before she was killed.

Future of the server: it has been discussed at length already. Too lazy to look up the correct thread, but there are a few. I believe the best way would be integrating a customized version of Luclin and PoP. No fucking cats on the moon, no updated models, no bazaar, no PoK books, no guild hall (maybe). I did like the concept of AAs though. A modified version, a limit that makes you have to choose between additional skills would be a decent way to balance it, e.g. as a druid I could train my class-AA healing abilities OR make my dots more efficient.
Sadly many of the new zones don't fit in with the classic feeling from the graphics perspective, but I doubt there're ppl willing to fashion complete new ones (if that's even possible).

There are a lot of possibilites. It all depends on what the dev situation will look like in the next couple of years. I estimate we will see Velious earliest mid 2013 - though I've heard that quite a bit of work has already been done and there's not so much pre-revamp information to gather / fix.

Afaik the dev team wants to experience classic EQ from a player's stand point some time -hence the server duh- whether this means that they will drop all development once they're happy with Velious (patches etc.) and roll a new server to enjoy their sandbox by actually playing or they will play and think about adding new content on the side isn't clear yet, although Nilbog has already mentioned that he'd rather implement custom content than cats on the moon. :)

[Grozmok]

I think an intelligent move would be to wait until the majority of your playerbase is close to max level, THEN release your additional content.

Releasing it early will screw lower level players that need/want to group in some of the older zones since everyone is going to bail to check out Velious. It also screws the value of older items for the haves, but it makes things cheaper for the have-nots.

Just my 2cp.

[doacleric]

I'm going to suggest something very "off the wall," so take it or leave it: try Roleplaying.



I am one of those weird people who believe that roleplaying truly is the answer to progression in mmorpg's. But there is one thing that RPing requires in order to make it work: others to roleplay with. Without other people who are willing to accept your RP and work with it, you will basically end up being what One Tin Soldier described above - a crazy person running around in a world talking to himself.