Epic Piece Camp Rules

[Nirgon]

Things like this are great stickies. More outlines of grey areas leads to quicker and simpler enforcement and probably less rule lawyering when things are directly stated.

GJ!

[Orruar]

Remember: The burden of proof for violation of rules is on YOU. Don't petition with no proof of being trained and demand that the staff "check the logs".

For those of us that don't run FRAPS 24/7, how exactly are we to do provide the proof of being trained? Do we have to get the offender to admit to the crime and then /report? That was how it typically was handled on our server on Live. Of course, the result was that people would just train the shit out of each other and stay silent. About the only way they'd get caught is if the GM was sitting there watching. If this becomes the norm here on P99, except to get a lot of tells anytime someone thinks they're about to get trained.

[ElanoraBryght]

Thank you!
Sticky please :)

[Rais]

Triggered spawns:
Whoever hands their items into the ragefire human has triggered the encounter and their guild/raid force would receive the right to go first in that instance.

This rule would apply as well:


The hand in of the quest item triggers the initial mob and his death triggers the dragon. Both mobs belong to that force for 1 attempt or 20 minutes.

All other server rules STILL apply. Ninja looting is not tolerated, neither is training each other etc. Use common sense and don't be a jerk. Strive for the least GM involvement possible and try to work things out on your own. Remember: The burden of proof for violation of rules is on YOU. Don't petition with no proof of being trained and demand that the staff "check the logs".


I'm just going to throw this out there. Sometimes at the most random point in some raids the server has a tendency to make people lag out, or crash while zoning or whatever. We've seen it happen a good handful of times where you've had to help res people. Not to mention just sometimes,some how a train happens and wipes people. You or others aren't always around to watch this happen.

Ragefire is one of those that is a huge time sink and has way much more to do than killing 1 mob for him to spawn, there should be a special rule for him alone. I think the possibility of raid interference will rise if Ragefire would be allowed to be killed by a guild who didn't spawn him.

I think either allowing the person who handed in the pearl 2 tries to kill him, or just straight up allow the cleric/guild the chance to kill him how ever many times. I personally won't attack him at all if another guild failed, that's just too much work to only have 1 shot, regardless of the reasons why a raid may fail on him.


Because what happens if the log in server acts up again and drops people and they can't log back in for the fight? That guild will loose key members for the fight and good chance to lose it. Or a train happens as I'm 100% sure will happen since it happens at every other raid encounter. You guys aren't always there to see this. If you take this step by making it so the cleric guild or friends the only ones to kill him, the hassle of petitions, training,ksing, won't happen. Allowing that window open to do so, will allow it.

Of course someone may like to be funny and just spawn him and leave him up and claim he can't be killed just to grief people. Highly unlikely this would happen, but seems some people on this server would do such a thing. Then if that happens that could be an issue until a petition can be worked out. I would rather take that issue, over training, or killing someone else's ragefire and have it be delt with.


I'm not saying this for any guild, I'm saying it for the sanity of clerics on the entire server.

[Bruman]

The only thing that's silly here are on timed epic mobs with a very long respawn. The rules encourage poopsocking.

If you know Mob X is going to spawn at 4:53 PM on Friday, getting you and two groups of friends to sit there for 12 hours before-hand is just...silly.

I'm not saying I know the solution, since "be adults about it and don't whine that because you can poop-sock harder that you're more entitled" will never happen, just saying there's room for improvement. I hate needing even the rules we have now.

[Cyrano]

I think you should add the line "In general don't be dickheads."

[falkun]

Because everyone follows the "don't be dickheads" clause.

[YendorLootmonkey]

While its a bit disappointing that something like this had to be written up, thank you so much for the time and effort spent to clarify the rules for the sanity of everyone involved!

[Cyrano]

Personally I think the GMs are way too lenient here. People, in all guilds, bitch and lawyer way too much at the expense of simply being level headed and fair with other players.

I get that raid mobs are contested and people are looking for a leg up but ANY epic mob should follow PnP. Putting 20 minutes on Ragefire? Way to screw all but 2 or 3 guilds out of cleric epics. Other camps have had lists that certain players just roll up and say "Your list doesn't count", it's fucking stupid and those guys should get suspended for disrupting the few instances of cohesiveness you see on this server.

The GMs should stop worrying about "being fair" because people are going to bitch no matter what. So why not cater to the, mostly, easy going masses on this server instead of letting the few dickheads who ruin things for others run rampant under rules that have been picked apart more than actual legal contracts?

[Kassel]

I agree the 20 min rule is a silly WRT to ragefire. I know i for one will never touch a ragefire spawned by somone outside my raid without specific permision.

[Xeliso]

Ragefire definitely needs to be treated differently, I am not going to keep redoing my pearl for whatever cirucmstance. Once it's your turn in, you have your chances/time to bring a force into the lair to kill it.

[Nirgon]

Frankly, whoever turns in the item, on a blue server:

Should have rights to the mob.

Whoever turns theirs in first wins. That's about as good a rule as you can make it.

[Extunarian]

Ragefire definitely needs to be treated differently, I am not going to keep redoing my pearl for whatever cirucmstance. Once it's your turn in, you have your chances/time to bring a force into the lair to kill it.

I would absolutely agree. I think ragefire should be yours for a good couple hours regardless of the number of attempts. Hopefully if it isn't a GM rule we can at least agree to this as players.

[Nirgon]

Ragefire definitely needs to be treated differently, I am not going to keep redoing my pearl for whatever cirucmstance. Once it's your turn in, you have your chances/time to bring a force into the lair to kill it.

I think the raid force should be present at the time of turn in tbqh...

[EverquestJunkie]

[QUOTE=Amelinda;521862]

Triggered spawns:

I dont see how this 1 attempt rule and 20minute bullshit is fair to be honest,

Hell we arnt all in these so called "big guilds"
Doesnt mean we dont have friends that will come help

How is it fair that if we try and wipe that some assphat guy can call his guild in and take the triggered spawn it then makes us have too spend days and hours to go back to just get the peice we just turned in.

Quite franky if you have done stuff leading up too the triggerd turn in spawn and wipe i dont see why ya cant just go back rethink it and engage again.

All i see on these foums is gms/devs thinking about the "big guilds" you do know you have people that just dont perfer to be in those guilds.
It doesnt mean they cant kill the triggered turn in spawn.

As i recall on live trying and failing then finally killing the stuff with a group of friends is what is epic about these fights, not throwing 100 people at it ...

[EverquestJunkie]

Just like to add your a shitbag if you mess with peoples epic turn in kills and should be perma banned in my mind.

Grow the fuck up. stop griefing people.

[EverquestJunkie]

Frankly, whoever turns in the item, on a blue server:

Should have rights to the mob.

Whoever turns theirs in first wins. That's about as good a rule as you can make it.

This is the way i see it too.

[Edrick]

Even though I'm not anywhere near getting an epic on P1999, it is very reassuring to see the administration taking an active interest in maintaining civility and stability. Thank you.

[Extunarian]

Triggered spawns:

I dont see how this 1 attempt rule and 20minute bullshit is fair to be honest,

Hell we arnt all in these so called "big guilds"
Doesnt mean we dont have friends that will come help

All i see on these foums is gms/devs thinking about the "big guilds" you do know you have people that just dont perfer to be in those guilds.
It doesnt mean they cant kill the triggered turn in spawn.

I think many people here, even those in larger guilds, would agree with you, but I don't think this kind of aggression towards the staff is necessary or helpful. Read the thread...others have voiced the same opinions in a more constructive manner - even those from 'big guilds.'

[Hottbiscuits Dreadmuffin]

Personally I think the GMs are way too lenient here. People, in all guilds, bitch and lawyer way too much at the expense of simply being level headed and fair with other players.

I get that raid mobs are contested and people are looking for a leg up but ANY epic mob should follow PnP. Putting 20 minutes on Ragefire? Way to screw all but 2 or 3 guilds out of cleric epics. Other camps have had lists that certain players just roll up and say "Your list doesn't count", it's fucking stupid and those guys should get suspended for disrupting the few instances of cohesiveness you see on this server.

The GMs should stop worrying about "being fair" because people are going to bitch no matter what. So why not cater to the, mostly, easy going masses on this server instead of letting the few dickheads who ruin things for others run rampant under rules that have been picked apart more than actual legal contracts?

+1

[Xeliso]

I think the raid force should be present at the time of turn in tbqh...

Impossible, when 8+ clerics are in the lair clicking nonstop. That means your guild would be camped out/socking it with you for a 72 hour window.

[Nirgon]

Well let's say I turn it in first but my raid isn't there.

"Hey, they'll be here in 8 hours or so"

Seems kind of silly to claim "dibs" cuz you turned it in first and have ownership if it until you manage to kill it. I'm looking at this from an enforcement stand point.

[Autotune]

Well let's say I turn it in first but my raid isn't there.

"Hey, they'll be here in 8 hours or so"

Seems kind of silly to claim "dibs" cuz you turned it in first and have ownership if it until you manage to kill it. I'm looking at this from an enforcement stand point.

You're looking at it from a point that makes no sense. Ragefire won't be up for 8hrs after a turn in.

Ragefire will need a GM every single time it spawns (presently) due to the way it is being handled and the way it is set up. Multiple clerics spamming an empty space waiting to trade an npc the exact moment it spawns is hilarious. NPC's have been eating items in failed trades. So now you have multiple clerics spamming an npc the moment he spawns and multiple clerics having no pearl a split second after he spawns.

That situation is just completely retarded. Either it needs a mandatory rotation with heavy consequences for being broken or it needs to made into an "whoever gets xp from the kill, get's the loot".

[Nirgon]

I think Zordak is a hot enough issue given how shit goes down here that a GM should be there, yes.

[Trystych]

It is not difficult to redo the pearl to summon ragefire. Nor is ragefire particularly difficult. If you don't think you can kill it within 20 minutes then you have no business turning in the pearl.

I would be very surprised if the clerics involved do not come to some of first in first out rotation agreement over time that will make this particular rule void. Having 50 people sitting around the spawn all trying to win the pearl hand in lottery will get old extremely quickly.

[Alarti0001]

A rotation is a great idea. Cleric epic is too cool, and its lame to be greedy about such a broken camp

[Kole1]

the clerics who have currently invested significant hours at ragefire are attempting to work out a solution.

so far, peace talks have been VERY successful and great progress has been made.

We do not expect to see more clickfests. It is quite simply completely unhealthy for any of the clerics to continue to do what we have been doing. As any cleric that spent the 71.9 hours spamclicking can tell you, Our nerves are shot and our carpal tunnel is actin up. We(I think I speak for everyone here) don't really like looking over our shoulders for someone to drag a pet in the middle of the cleric circle. Last ragefire we had 5-10 clerics at a time spamclicking. Seven pearls have been lost since Getsome's ragefire. Thats 7 times clerics had to redo their epic. Granted its not a huge delay, but the stress of having to go recamp an epic and try to get back into the lair, all the while hoping Ragefire doesn't pop simply isn't worth it.

Ragefire is currently only an issue because its a once a nagafen spawn.

Once it goes back to how it was in classic, it will get easier.


There will be peace in SolB. soon.

[Autotune]

I think Zordak is a hot enough issue given how shit goes down here that a GM should be there, yes.

I think a GM shouldn't have to be there. I think the situation that causes shit to go down should be solved by both sides (players and GMs)

[messiah_b]

Sounds like the majority of clerics are favoring an agreement in the spirit of the play nice policy. Have the players compose and submit it to the GMs. Then publish it and ban any cleric who goes out of turn, and give anyone who assists them a month vacation.

If 90% of the clerics / guilds can come to an agreement then the outliers of them can get on board or beat it. You are talking about like 2-3 people who are almost certainly not worth having around anyways.

Edit: think I meant to post this in the ragefire thread, but I think the point stands that the rules lawyering and bickering is ridiculous. Perhaps time to take a stronger stance on above all an enforcement of the play-nice-policy.

[williestargell]

of course if you happened to belong to IB and intentionally train both golem towers back to back when another guild has two groups standing on each golem tower in fear before this was posted, you get off scott free.

Apparently it wasn't clear that intentionally training the entire zone on another raid TWICE was frowned upon, or that "oops it was an accident...oops again" was a good enough excuse to get you out of trouble

[triad]

It is not difficult to redo the pearl to summon ragefire. Nor is ragefire particularly difficult. If you don't think you can kill it within 20 minutes then you have no business turning in the pearl.

again not all of us care or need the ego boost to be apart of the "top guilds" and enjoy a challange even if it means wiping a few times ..... oh suprise its an IB member

[guppers]

There is an issue that I havn't seen addressed and I'd like clarification. WHat if I'm in najena clearing the whole thing at 52, and another 52 mage comes in. I've had this happen and the mage said I could only claim one camp and he went around killing literally everything else. When I said I think we should divide it in half he said unless I was sitting in front of something it was first tag first kill. So I can claim one thing and if the other guy is faster than me he literally gets the whole rest of the zone? What if he's a bard he gets to kite as much stuff as he wants except for one camp?

sry!! accidentally posted this in wrong thread

[DoucLangur]

4. We do not have a rule for how a camp will be handed off to another player. It is recommended the player interested in obtaining a camp work that out with who is on the camp already.

It is up to whoever currently holds a camp as to who they hand that camp to. Just because you sit and wait does not mean that you get the camp next. The current player can hand the camp to whoever s/he wants to. BUT may not deceive you. If you can prove that s/he deceived you then we can do something. If you can't prove that via Screenshot then we can't help :/

While the other rules make sense, for this one here common sense went out the door. This has been excessively abused to cockblock people from getting pre-nerf items on kunark release, and if anything, then a camp should allow people to get in line by being present at the camp.

I.e. if I arrive at camp X, with one person camping it and no one around, then the camp is mine when that person leaves/wipes.

There is absolutely no reason why a player camping a certain item should have the right to decide who should be able to camp the item next, *after* they got theirs.

With all due respect, I would like to see this policy changed to something along the lines of "when you get to a camp that is occupied, you can for ma queue / get into the queue behind the other persons already present.

For camps that are also group camps, this is of course a bit different, as people can choose who to invite into their group. But in most cases that we're talking about, the person (and their friends, if present) who is currently camping a mob intends to leave after (s)he gets the drop in question.

Kind regards

Slozem

[fischsemmel]

This has been excessively abused to cockblock people from getting pre-nerf items on kunark release, and if anything, then a camp should allow people to get in line by being present at the camp.

It's not an abuse of game mechanics; it's just how the game mechanics work.

Games like EQ reward people who are online more often, who are members of larger guilds that are full of people who are online more often, who are more knowledgeable about how the game works, and/or who are lucky.

If someone is allegedly cockblocking others from getting gear by getting a camp before the others, holding that camp until they get their drop, and then keeping that camp in a guild or circle of friends... dude, they are doing everything they are supposed to do in order to be rewarded by an MMO. They mmodeserve the drops.

[Mylozen]

While the other rules make sense, for this one here common sense went out the door. This has been excessively abused to cockblock people from getting pre-nerf items on kunark release, and if anything, then a camp should allow people to get in line by being present at the camp.

I.e. if I arrive at camp X, with one person camping it and no one around, then the camp is mine when that person leaves/wipes.

There is absolutely no reason why a player camping a certain item should have the right to decide who should be able to camp the item next, *after* they got theirs.

With all due respect, I would like to see this policy changed to something along the lines of "when you get to a camp that is occupied, you can for ma queue / get into the queue behind the other persons already present.

For camps that are also group camps, this is of course a bit different, as people can choose who to invite into their group. But in most cases that we're talking about, the person (and their friends, if present) who is currently camping a mob intends to leave after (s)he gets the drop in question.

Kind regards

Slozem

I agree with this completely. While several of the rules do obviously favor the larger guilds this one is just ridiculous. It's basically stating that by being at a camp not only is it yours for the duration of you being their but you are allowed to assign the future of it as well? Now I could see filtering in replacements, but if a group had been waiting for a camp and they just call in a new group of their friends to take over after they are done makes no sense at all.