Quick question on camps - HHK specifically

[Amareck]

I'm after a bit of clarification here guys.

Situation:

1) A group is holding the HHK basement and killing all of the spawns for quite some time.

2) A player comes in and simply claims ONE of those rooms, within the "HHK basement" camp.

What's the story? I know the official position on these forums explains "camps" quite nicely, but afaik, this situation involves someone claiming a "room" (which is part of the HHK basement) as a "camp".

So my question: can someone simply claim that "Room X is its own camp and its mine"?

-------------------------------
Post edit - further info
-------------------------------

We had the entirety of HHK basement camped and controlled. This particular player rolled into a room inside our camp (HHK Basement) and claimed it as his own. We told him it was camped, he cited these forums. We told him that the rules here refer to "camps" not "rooms" - he stayed in there. We advised him we'd proceed as if he wasn't there.

A mob in that room spawned. This player engaged it and we did as promised - proceeded as if he were not there. We subsequently killed the mob. The player then stated he'd be screenshotting, reporting and posting here regarding the incident.

[Starklen]

In my experience, the existing group always loses their collective shit if you try to camp any specific room in the basement if they were already there. I'd throw out your notion of what HHK used to be like and stick to the new norm.

[Kinamur1999]

I've run into this exact scenario many many many times leveling up in every zone. Grinding in an area for hours just to have a group move right next to you and start clearing.

Against the rules? No, not at all. Asshole thing to do? In my opinion, yes.

It's just how the rules are written, If your not in a camp you can't claim it so even if your clearing the entire HHK basement which is about enough mobs for 1 full group any person or group can move into that sideroom with 2 spawns and claim that as theirs, or they can sit in the bottom room or main room.

If you arn't sitting at the spawn point, you arn't camping it.

[Jokesteve]

You had the entire basement, and your bitching about 3 mobs?

Not to flame, but get real. If your not sitting on the spawn, your not camping it.

Furthermore I'm unsure on KS'ing rules here - but on live if you engaged a mob that someone else was already hitting that is against the rules.

What a prick :rolleyes:

[mitic]

You had the entire basement, and your bitching about 3 mobs?

Not to flame, but get real. If your not sitting on the spawn, your not camping it.

Furthermore I'm unsure on KS'ing rules here - but on live if you engaged a mob that someone else was already hitting that is against the rules.

What a prick :rolleyes:

its not like there are 30 mobs down there. should be one camp imo, especialy if those mobs are blue already

[Jokesteve]

Can't be one camp unless your entire group is solo'ing each spot.

If mobs are up and your not there to kill them you don't own them.


In classic days I never seen a group try to claim the whole thing. You would be laughed at on Tholuxe for this.

[Humerox]

Heck...on the server I started with the basement was FOUR camps.

1) The room on the right as you entered basement...lowest level mobs.

2) The basement proper. Group would sit on ledge and pull all mobs in the main basement level. The mobs at top of stairs were part of this camp.

3) Warrior room. Included the mobs at the bottom of the stairs.

4) Raider room.

[Amareck]

I totally agree with Humerox - on live 'back in the day', it was 4 camps. But I've never seen more than ONE group in HHK on p99. That's the core of the question - not about KS/Camp rules - we all know those... The question is whether HHK basement is now considered one camp or whether its "main room", "RR", "WR" and "LO".

[Kinamur1999]

The question is whether HHK basement is now considered one camp or whether its "main room", "RR", "WR" and "LO".

Every spawn is going to be its own camp, soon youll see entire groups sitting at each spawn in hhk yelling back and forth about ksing and camp rules.

[Jokesteve]

That's the core of the question - not about KS/Camp rules - we all know those...

Apparently not since you KS'ed the the guy in that room.

[Amareck]

way to completely ignore the question. Howver, to respond to your troll...

If it is all one camp, then he was KS'ing us and all we did was ensure we killed a mob we were entitled to. If its not all one camp, then yes, we KS'd him - which is why I'm seeking clarification here (preferably from a GM, even though its rather petty admittedly).

[Humerox]

I'd think that if someone wanted to take one of the historical camps, they should probably be allowed to do so.

If a new group came in, the original group taking the whole basement could move lower, take WR and RR, for example.

With the influx of people, HHK may still yet regain its old popularity...who knows?

You likely won't get clarification from a GM. They don't even want to be involved in the hi-end stuff.

[Jokesteve]

way to completely ignore the question. Howver, to respond to your troll...

If it is all one camp, then he was KS'ing us and all we did was ensure we killed a mob we were entitled to. If its not all one camp, then yes, we KS'd him - which is why I'm seeking clarification here (preferably from a GM, even though its rather petty admittedly).

If you waiting for a GM to tell you it was okay to KS that guy you are sadly mistaken.

You even read the post on camps and your still trying to twist it in your favor, even though the thread thoroughly goes over how each room is considered a camp.

[Kinamur1999]

It's definitely broken up into separate rooms, it is not considered one camp and never will be.

You guys definitely KSd that guy though, it sucks someone moved in and you lost some of your mobs but I guess you were lucky to have it all while you could.

[mitic]

so if someone claims a room it belongs to his group in hk rite? thats like 4-6 mobs every 6 (?) minutes?

glad i just passed by and didnt group there today.

lol, just lol

[Kinamur1999]

so if someone claims a room it belongs to his group in hk rite? thats like 4-6 mobs every 6 (?) minutes?

glad i just passed by and didnt group there today.

lol, just lol

Thats right! so instead of 1 group getting good exp its 2 groups getting mediocre exp then 3 groups getting crap exp and 4 groups wondering why they arnt playing wow.

But its not just hhk I've run into the every room is a separate camp issues everywhere. I cant tell you how many times I've had a group come and sit down right next to mine and start pulling from the same rooms we have been.

Thats the rules.

[mitic]

real men lvl in unrest or mistmoore midlvls kinamur...let them keep their drama in hk

[magic]

You had the entire basement, and your bitching about 3 mobs?

Not to flame, but get real. If your not sitting on the spawn, your not camping it.

Furthermore I'm unsure on KS'ing rules here - but on live if you engaged a mob that someone else was already hitting that is against the rules.

What a prick :rolleyes:

You shouldn't even be allowed to post here. Hurts my fucking brain. Just shut up.

[Taluvill]

Heck...on the server I started with the basement was FOUR camps.

1) The room on the right as you entered basement...lowest level mobs.

2) The basement proper. Group would sit on ledge and pull all mobs in the main basement level. The mobs at top of stairs were part of this camp.

3) Warrior room. Included the mobs at the bottom of the stairs.

4) Raider room.

Thats how it was on my server as well. Eci'. But the problem is that our population is about 1500, give or take, people below server regularities on live. Back when there were 2000 to 2500 people or so, being able to camp like 2-4 spawns in an exp bonus zone was considered a good camp. I remember when they use to sit in the Assassin/Supplier room and just kill those three and hopefully a roamer if they could lure it up.

IMO - Its the guys right to do that. It sucks, but thats the rules.

[Humerox]

Thats right! so instead of 1 group getting good exp its 2 groups getting mediocre exp then 3 groups getting crap exp and 4 groups wondering why they arnt playing wow..

When there are four groups in HHK Nilbog and Rogean are gonna be dancing a jig.

Fact is...more people are joining the server everyday. It's going to get more and more crowded. Everywhere. Less than 3 months ago server averages were below 200. I can log on now at 5am EDT and see more than that.

[Kinamur1999]

real men lvl in unrest or mistmoore midlvls kinamur...let them keep their drama in hk

Unrest is where I live son! but it happens there too.

Doing basement and having someone run by and kill the ghost dwarf because you weren't sitting in his room.

The "canyon" camp in mistmoore. Never heard about this until P99, when zi and gy groups are full and there aren't enough mobs for a 3rd group why not setup right between the first 2 call it a camp and start taking their mobs. It's genius really.

[Zordana]

without reading all this crap givin me a headache:

on live we had it like this: the basement was divided in 4 camps.. the lookout room (the one with 2 (used to be 3) spawns) the guard room (main room) the warrior room and the raider room..
if thers 1 group, they can claim all 4 camps of course.. if a second group is comming, the first group can decide which camp they wanna claim - mostly if there were 2 groups, we just split 2 camps for group1, 2 camps for group 2.. etc
in my opinion you may only claim 1 camp and if another group is comming, SHARE and dont bitch around like "oh my god hes killing one of 20 mobs every spawn.. lets train him!!" i mean srsly guys.. pull your head out of your asses and be polite..

[Speed]

You did KS me, I did state the rules, I still have the SS of the conversation during of which the room empty half way through the conversation one of your members coming in and then as a mob pops the "start" of the KSing happens. I was polite, and now you've been told by other members of the community that understand the rules stated by the admin. I am just waiting for an admin now to clarify so I can kindly shove back in your face.

[Jete]

At least you're taking the peaceful route...

[musufasa]

Speeds in the right, thread closed.

[Amareck]

Speed - if a GM responds to the effect that you are in the right, then I will be apologising for taking A SINGLE mob from you. Do what you want thereafter mate.

As to Speed's comments in another thread, there have probably been around 4 - 5 times where your group has been in HHK (/who all highkeep = 4-6 folks) and you've been /ooc'ing for reps - we've left you alone to your entire basement camp - out of courtesy.

This isn't about KS'ing or anything like that - we sincerely believed that HHK basement was a single camp on this server and we respected that when other groups were there. Then to have you roll up after we've left you to your camp for days on end? It felt a bit rude. BUT - if that's the way it is, nps at all and please accept my apologies in advance IF that's the case.

Yes Speed, you did quote the rules - but the rules refer to CAMPS, not ROOMS. We didn't disregard the rules, we disagreed on an honest interpretation of them. We had what we thought was "a camp". You claimed (what we thought) was "a room" inside "our camp". Honest disagreement.

The idea that any given room is a 'single camp' seems a bit odd, IMO. Shin Lord camp is a one room camp with 4 other camps in close proximity? Seems crazy! In most dungeons, that would mean most camps are 3-4 mobs, which seems to lack any common sense at all. But that seems to be the common consensus - if you cannot sit at a mob's feet, or its not a single room, then more than one group can claim it.

If that's the correct interpretation of the rules, so be it and I look forward to sharing 4 mob camps with 20 other groups within 30 feet of each other. Doesn't seem to be in anyone's best interests though eh?

Thanks to all the peeps constructively discussing this - I was warned it would be a complete waste of time.

[Kinamur1999]

Thats the hard rule, If your not at it you can't claim it.

There is a play nice policy but cant be enforced, hopefully if you respect other peoples camps it comes back in turn.

[President]

Speed may have been in the "right" technically according to the rules, but it doesn't mean hes not an asshat.

One group is easily killing a whole area of mobs for XP - You come in and claim that a 3 of them are yours because they aren't sitting on top of them. According to the rules, you may be right, according to anyone with a brain, your an asshat.

The rules were made up to prevent single classes(or even groups) from roaming zones and killing/claiming 2-3-4+ named mobs. Yes, they are able to kill them, but they aren't necessarily at the "camps." This was happening a lot in lower guk when a group/enc/necro could IVU run to a camp kill the named, IVU run to next camp kill the named, IVU run to the next camp kill the named, rinse and repeat over and over.

These rules were not here to prevent ass/sup from pulling the gargoyles around the corner, or prevent a window/royals group in solb from pulling the entrance, or anywhere else where the mobs are XP related. In fact in solb - Window group and Royals group often compete for the entrance mobs spawns which is very similar to the current situation.


Pre-apologizes to the GM's for calling someone who exploits the camp rules an asshat outside of the Rants & Flames forum.

[magic]

^ What he said.

[Amareck]

Righto then.

Speed - please accept my apologies for last night (or whatever time frame it was based on your time zone). I was not deliberately being a dick, simply taking mobs from what I thought was my own camp.

Thanks to everyone else who took the time to discuss the question.

[President]

Righto then.

Speed - please accept my apologies for last night (or whatever time frame it was based on your time zone). I was not deliberately being a dick, simply taking mobs from what I thought was my own camp.

Thanks to everyone else who took the time to discuss the question.

You weren't in the wrong dude, you don't need to apologize. If you were easily clearing an area of XP mobs with a group that was your camp, he was being the "dickish" one by exploiting camp rules in his favor. If you had trouble killing all the mobs in the area with your group, then he may have claim to them, but if not, then he was absolutely exploiting the camp rules in his favor.

[President]

in my opinion you may only claim 1 camp and if another group is comming, SHARE and dont bitch around like "oh my god hes killing one of 20 mobs every spawn.. lets train him!!" i mean srsly guys.. pull your head out of your asses and be polite..

Partially, this could be seen as correct, partially not. One group can easily kill all three royals spawns in solb. If you had a group there doing so, would you like it if an enchanter rolled in to one of the named spawns and was like "according to camp rules i can take one of these."? That's basically whats happening here, he had a group that was killing all the mobs, that don't have 3 separate named mobs with drops.

If it was him duoing and he couldn't keep up with all the spawns, or maybe barely keep up with all the spawns, I can see where you would say "sure take those over there." But If I am thinking of this how it sounds, he was easily clearing out the basement with his group.

[Kinamur1999]

I've lost far to many fights about exp camps to argue with people quoting vague rules.

Keep up the good fight president, were behind you!

[jelatin]

You had the entire basement, and your bitching about 3 mobs?

Not to flame, but get real. If your not sitting on the spawn, your not camping it.

Furthermore I'm unsure on KS'ing rules here - but on live if you engaged a mob that someone else was already hitting that is against the rules.

What a prick :rolleyes:


99% of groups that camp HHK basement finish the entire clear with about 5m between repops, so three mobs every spawn cycle does turn into a fairly significant xp difference.


As to OP, the rules would -most- likely side with the antagonist unfortunately. Even though the guy who came and sat in your room was a disrespectful douche-bag, the camp rules defined thread mentions (like others have in this thread) that on live each of those rooms would have been camped separately. This will also be true if the server population keeps growing.

[anthony210]

On live it was common to have 3-4 groups in HHK. LR WR RR etc.

I dont see what the problem here is... You cant claim all of the camps if someone wants to exp there as well.

IMO Speed was not an asshat. He played within the rules and wanted a piece of the action in HHK. He claimed a room that was not camped per the rules.

If you think HHK doesnt have enough spawns for you then you can feel free to leave the zone and go somewhere else.

Speed did not break any rules, but it appears to me the OP did by KSing.

[Speed]

Just FYI for those who remember Lookout Room for what it use to be in live, yes LR was 3 mobs but here it's only 2.

Also I stopped after 1 mob b/c it would of been an on going battle just so I can get 2 mobs out of a total 14 and kept losing to a whole groups DPS vs Me.

Apology excepted - but people need to realize this server is growing, noticeable so that people are LFG a lot more then they use to b/c the spots are already filled. Meaning the post here..

http://project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?p=48686#post48686

..has to start coming into effect - or else our population is going to stay around the same level it is b/c people will stop playing, IMO, for lack of places to level b/c everything is camped.

[President]

Just FYI for those who remember Lookout Room for what it use to be in live, yes LR was 3 mobs but here it's only 2.

Also I stopped after 1 mob b/c it would of been an on going battle just so I can get 2 mobs out of a total 14 and kept losing to a whole groups DPS vs Me.

Apology excepted - but people need to realize this server is growing, noticeable so that people are LFG a lot more then they use to b/c the spots are already filled. Meaning the post here..

http://project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?p=48686#post48686

..has to start coming into effect - or else our population is going to stay around the same level it is b/c people will stop playing, IMO, for lack of places to level b/c everything is camped.

This isn't live. It is complete and utter bullshit that there are no other places for you to xp other than going to a camp someone else had held down for some time.

We had a group get together in solb on Saturday and after we get there with 5 members of the group realize that window, royals, and bnb are camped.

Did we decide to go sit in the room below window and cut off both royals/window from entrance mobs?
Did we decide to go tell Royals they would have to share one room because thats what the "rules" state?
Did we go sit near the first bat room and pull entrance kobolds and bats and bugs that spawn that we can snag first seriously reducing the xp of all three groups?

No, we didn't, because those are lame-ass moves. What did we do? Go where people don't go to XP and headed over to live-side guk. Was it great xp? No. Were that phat lewts? No. But it was the non-lame-ass move.


People need to stop comparing this to live because it simply isn't. "Well on live there were 4 camps in the basement area."

Yea, well on live there were 50 camps in lowerguk because every, single, spawn was camped. Whether it be a wizard waiting for his one hallway spawn every 28 minutes, or a group sitting on top of the ass/sup killing those 3-4 mobs.

Does that mean on this server a group goes and sits near ass/sup and takes the ritualist or gargoyles because they are "separate camps." No, absolutely not, why? because thats a LAME-ASS MOVE.

By nilbogs post in the bug forum there are 14 mobs that spawn in the basement - a complete joke for a group to clear well before respawns.

You guys go ahead and justify it any way you want to make yourselves feel in the right but it's plain and simply exploiting the camping rules to gain benefit for yourself.

[musufasa]

This isn't live. It is complete and utter bullshit that there are no other places for you to xp other than going to a camp someone else had held down for some time.

We had a group get together in solb on Saturday and after we get there with 5 members of the group realize that window, royals, and bnb are camped.

Did we decide to go sit in the room below window and cut off both royals/window from entrance mobs?
Did we decide to go tell Royals they would have to share one room because thats what the "rules" state?
Did we go sit near the first bat room and pull entrance kobolds and bats and bugs that spawn that we can snag first seriously reducing the xp of all three groups?

No, we didn't, because those are lame-ass moves. What did we do? Go where people don't go to XP and headed over to live-side guk. Was it great xp? No. Were that phat lewts? No. But it was the non-lame-ass move.


People need to stop comparing this to live because it simply isn't. "Well on live there were 4 camps in the basement area."

Yea, well on live there were 50 camps in lowerguk because every, single, spawn was camped. Whether it be a wizard waiting for his one hallway spawn every 28 minutes, or a group sitting on top of the ass/sup killing those 3-4 mobs.

Does that mean on this server a group goes and sits near ass/sup and takes the ritualist or gargoyles because they are "separate camps." No, absolutely not, why? because thats a LAME-ASS MOVE.

By nilbogs post in the bug forum there are 14 mobs that spawn in the basement - a complete joke for a group to clear well before respawns.

You guys go ahead and justify it any way you want to make yourselves feel in the right but it's plain and simply exploiting the camping rules to gain benefit for yourself.


Rules are rules.

[mitic]

Rules are rules.

for classics sake and great justice!

[karsten]

mitic du SAU

[Humerox]

Personally I could give 2 flips about HHK.

Rules have always been in place for the benefit of the community. One grouping HHK when other people show up...now that's lame.

OP had a valid question. Sure, basement can be one-grouped. But there is room for more than one group, and why c-block other people because you don't wanna give up a little bit of xp? I thought we were all here to enjoy the journey.

[Omnimorph]

I'd say that given the situation i would have left it as it is. Yes moving in on someone else's camp is a lame-ass move. Why not just say to the group that you're lfg, when they get a spot free to send you an invite. Then go exp somewhere else.

But then there's also a fine line between that, and having a rape group able to clear exe / sage / cav/ sav / asssup in guk. Sure they can clear it, but that's like 6 named mobs there. (7 inc ritualist). I think if you have clearly too many camps (obviously being greedy) then yes someone should cite the rules and claim they split / share the camp.

If it's a camp that 1 group should realistically have, then they should be left with it. Wonder whether or not you'd be better off going some place else.

[ashecrimson]

This guy named Speed.

Not the first time he has caused trouble has done it a lot in Unrest. Then he will shout and spew his garbage in shout to the point where everyone will just ignore him.

[Omnimorph]

Rules have always been in place for the benefit of the community. One grouping HHK when other people show up...now that's lame.


Sure when other people show up, but just 1 guy shows up and wants to claim some room? not to mention that you're the guys who split it and have it on a manageable spawn or w/e.

Yes by letter of the law on camps he's entitled to it, but we've all been in that situation, and we all know what we think of the guy that just shows up. If i showed up and saw a group clearing the whole place, i'd think "Hey, they've got this place, guess i'll have to go elsewhere or ask to join them when they have room"

I'd like to think that if another group did show up, the group already there would sensibly share the camp.

[jilena]

This whole situation is a bit touchy. I mean sure it makes sense in HHK, and the guy is probably being a bit selfish, showing up and claiming mobs that are quite obviously part of the current pull rotation taking place down in the basement.

However the rules HAVE to be this way or you run into the problem of higher levels and/or better geared folks dominating entire zones. Sol B was mentioned, what happens when you have a good royals group going, they are the only group in the zone. Any decent 45+ group should have no problem clearing royals, entrance trash, window, and pretty much anything that spawns in the "front" half of sol B. Another group shows up and takes window.. This is typically considered fine because window is "traditionally" its own camp. It's the same situation described above, just involving more people. What happens when you have some 50 druid PLing their buddy in MM GY and pulling all of the pit and yard trash to boot? They can clear it, they have no problem "holding" the front half of the zone even though it's traditionally 3-5 camps they are pulling. Should any newcomers to the zone just move elsewhere if they can't take one of the remaining camps in the castle?

That said, in a camp as small as what you are talking about, anyone who would force 6 people to give up some of their exp because they are simply too lazy to walk somewhere else to exp is pretty inconsiderate and while I would allow them to do it, I would personally never group with them. This server would have to be ridiculously overpopulated for it to be impossible to find exp elsewhere at any level. *shrug*

This is why I was never a fan of the PNP on live, for every incident of it preventing the little guy from getting fucked over by evil empire, it spawned 50 incidents where it was being abused to inconvenience others under the pretense of "fair play". I always loved people telling me I had to give them every other named spawn of a mob I had been camping for 5 hours because they needed the item too. I would rather be trained and KS'ed than subjected to that sort of lameness. Maybe that's just me.

[Macroz]

As far as I can see if they are camping close to that room and clearing it they own it. End of story. Maybe if they were not clearing the RR room or something then it would be ok for someone to contact the group and ask if its ok to take said room if they not killing it.

Seems like a no brainer to me.

[Kinamur1999]

If you think HHK doesnt have enough spawns for you then you can feel free to leave the zone and go somewhere else.

Come across this ALL DAY. Group will move right next to yours doing bullshit things like taking your mobs just waiting for the first group to get fed up and leave so they can move in.

If I've been exping for several hours my group usually has its area clear and respawn scheduled, it works nicely. When a second group move right next to you and chokes off your mobs, why even continue?

Most of the time I get equal or better exp soloing light blues as a fucking ranger than grouping because of bullshit like this, A full group in a 3-4 mob room is retarded and not doing anything but trying to weasel their way in to YOUR camp.

[mitic]

http://i684.photobucket.com/albums/vv203/miticeq/1.jpg
http://i684.photobucket.com/albums/vv203/miticeq/2.jpg

everyone on P99 has to obey above camp spots

in the event of repeated violation the concerned player will be banned and all his loot (*1) will be given to me

gms please sticky my maps so noone has an excuse if mobs are pulled from other rooms

on behalf of "the vision (®)" and "classic eq"

love,
mitic

ps: (*1) because i care

[Danth]

'A full group in a 3-4 mob room is retarded '

That's actually how it was much of the time on Live. Remember Guk with 75 or more people? Or recollect High keep with 4 groups? Lack of content sufficient for large server populations ranks among just one of EQ's myriad faults. That was much of the reason many people leveled as slowly in EQ as they did (and, thus, why we often level more quickly on P99); groups were more often limited by monsters available than by their potential kill rate.

Every single thread on this subject, every single comment like the one above, just reminds us all why developers gave in and took the hamfisted approach of instancing everything. Given human nature, the cycle of course follows that after some years, folks wax nostalgic for outdoor content. The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. Simply put, any game type has its advantages and drawbacks.

Danth

[Kinamur1999]

Yeah and it was retarded back then to except i had 12 hours a day to start at my screen to lfg for 4 mobs.

To quote the famous broken record, THIS ISN'T LIVE!!!

There aren't nearly as many people playing on this server as there were back in in 99, if you want me to quote bullshit statistics save yourself, 10 years ago 3-4 mobs every few minutes was probably great but today in P99 its worthless.

Those are the rules yes and I'll adhere to them everyday but that doesn't mean I have to sit here and say they're golden and everyone benefits from them.

Honestly I just can't wait until my next group because im going to sit just as fucking close to the next group and take as many "ffa" mobs as possible, so please shoot me a tell that I'm ksing from your camp and ill kindly link the url to this fucking post.

[President]

Rules are rules.

Whats your in game name? I'd like to come camp the room next to you every time I log on because "rules are rules."

[Danth]

That group sitting next to you can't 'camp' anything beyond their own little area, either. Just pull from past them and if they intercept your mobs, well, then they're kill-stealing. Granted, that can easily devolve into training each other and greifing, especially when the two groups just take the typical 'internet hostility' approach and don't even try to work mutually. However, if the parties involved have relatively level heads, it works fine.

Danth

[Tallenn]

You were both dicks.

One for KSing mobs someone else had engaged, the other for moving in on a place that was obviously already being camped.

As for who is right and who wrong is according to the rules? Who gives a shit? It doesn't matter, because not everyone agrees with the official rules. The only thing that matters is reputation, and that will stick with you, earned or not. Don't think that's fair? Tough shit, life's a bitch.

When you're LFG for Seb or Velks much later on, and one member of the group says, "don't get that guy, he's a dick", do you think it will matter whether or not you were technically within the rules, or even that anyone will remember the details at all? Do you think they will even ask why the person said you were a dick? No, because it's not worth it, they won't care, and there are almost always more people available to join a group, especially one in the good spots.

Being in the "right" isn't worth trashing your rep, and EQ players are notorious for holding grudges for years. There are TONS of places to get good xp in the 20s and 30s.

Bottom line, don't be a dick.

[ashecrimson]

Is Speed a dwarf warrior? (or some sort of melee).
If so I could have sworn that I grouped with him in Unrest once. We had taken the main room on the first floor and I was pulling all of the first floor mobs. As so often happens another group moved in the back, personally I tend to let them get on with it when this happens but Speed got pretty angry and started shouting about it.


Speed is better off going back to World of "lets be fair" Craft.

[maegi]

this isn't live....this isn't live....this isn't live....fuck the rules...use your heads.... don't be a douchebag...nuff said

[bizzum]

Post prior to yours 4-19-2010... Why were you browsing that far back just to troll? There is a great post in R&F about the HHK basement, check that out!

[toddfx]

Well since the thread is now revived, I'll go ahead and add my two cents.

I've been on both sides of this feud. Sure it's annoying when another group or duo comes up and asks to share some basement mobs, but it also royally sucks when you're camped and bound there, but told to frack off every time you log in.

To be perfectly honest, the P99 way has ruined my HHk experience, which was once my favorite classic live zone to group in. Sure the exp might not be as great when there are multiple groups, but it's more lively and more enjoyable for everybody when theres more than 6 people running around in the zone.

[zianlo1]

In classic, Verant said camps dont exist. KSing was frowned upon, not against the rules. Highest dps ruled. Thats classic. Fuck these camp rules.

[Rhambuk]

In classic, Verant said camps dont exist. KSing was frowned upon, not against the rules. Highest dps ruled. Thats classic. Fuck these camp rules.

How is this ANY better than the current situation? Instead of having a group move in and killing "some" of your mobs youre saying you would prefer they came in and started killing mobs you pulled so you get nothing. Genius, absolute genius plan right here.

[Rhambuk]

Also following the post,

This Isn't Live.

This is P99, there are rules to stop this kind of bullshit because people don't want ksing.

[xshayla701]

I thought it was HK "High Keep" and HP "High Pass?" Not "HHK" I'm confused irl. Can someone please clear this up for me, since that is more important than whose fucking goblin was stolen.

[Messianic]

I thought it was HK "High Keep" and HP "High Pass?" Not "HHK" I'm confused irl. Can someone please clear this up for me, since that is more important than whose fucking goblin was stolen.

The true names are "Highhold Pass" (easiest abbreviation is HP), and "High Keep," (easiest abbreviation is HK). If you actually zone into those places, those are what the names are.

Yeah, it's always bugged me, too - Highhold Keep always sounded so redundant, but I made the mistake for a while, too...

[Japan]

I made the mistake for a while, too...

that's fair enough, but 12 years of it is a long enough grace period. Let's start calling people fucking retards.

[Pescador]

I'm fairly sure it's Highpass Hold, not Highhold Pass

[Dantes]

HHK goblins are 1 camp, if the group can keep them all dead. If not, somebody can come claim Raider room or whatnot. It's common sense. If the group can't keep up with the spawn, obviously they are trying to bite off more than they can chew. In this case, the group DID have control. If all mobs are dead, then you're a fucking dickhead if you are trying to move in and claim their camped mobs. There's empty dungeons out there, go somewhere else. Don't ride a successful group's coat-tails for your soloing agenda. You're leeching their experience.

[Messianic]

I'm fairly sure it's Highpass Hold, not Highhold Pass

Oops, you're right. See :P I get them confused, too, even after personally verifying them last year...

Apparently I'm a retard.

[OngorDrakan]

You know this isn't LIVE and these days people know how to play(most of the time) which means they can hold the whole basement and continue killing and soon as mobs pop they get them and clear it. So taking rooms is a prick move. A single group can hold the area for hours on their own keeping it clear. So why mess with them? It's a camp, the player base totally agrees it's a whole camp. Its great exp mid 20's and up.

Just a prick move. to take the best exp down there from the group while they kill DB's and LB's. If you're soloing a 3 spawn in HHK, you should probably not be playing the game. Can't find a group eh? Lame.

[soup]

There's not even enough mobs in there to keep 1 decent group completely busy. The thought of 2 or more groups down there is just loltastic

[usedtobejubaloftorv]

The toon I play most often now did nearly 10 levels in HHK, and fairly recently, so a lot of the comments on this thread caught me by surprise.

Regardless of what happened in live, IF there's a full group in the basement, AND they are killing all the spawns, it is ONE camp and anyone trying to move into it is a jerk. There are only 16 mobs in the whole basement, and a full group of appropriate level can easily kill all of them.

Keep in mind that the player base here is very different from the player base in live - in general the people who come back a decade later to play again are going to be mostly among the top 10% skilled players from live servers, and a room with 3 mobs every half hour is not going to be fun for them.

In general - whatever the rules may technically be - any person moving into an area that is already being cleared by people who are getting XP from the camp is simply wrong to do so. If I saw anyone try such a maneuver I would be very loath to assist them in any way in the future - and claiming that the rules supported the jerkwad maneuver would compound the infraction rather than mitigate it. There's simply no excuse for it, especially in a game that essentially exists for nostalgia purposes.



That said, there's another situation that should also be addressed, which is the high level camper. If you've got a character in a place where everything is green to you and you are farming loot, you should move on if an XP group comes and wants the camp. Bottom feeding is fine - I do it myself on occasion - however, be halfway decent to others and let those who gain XP in the zone have first dibs. The dungeon was meant for what the XP group is doing; if you are item farming a green zone for cash it's rude not to defer to the people who have a much more valid reason to be there.

There's one camp in particular which is designed for level 45 or so, which almost 100% of the time has a level 60 item farmer present. If you're that guy farming it all the time, keep in mind that every time you are there when a group wants it, you have six people putting down your name in the "rude, jerk - do not assist" column.

[eqravenprince]

In classic, Verant said camps dont exist. KSing was frowned upon, not against the rules. Highest dps ruled. Thats classic. Fuck these camp rules.

I agree with this. If you want to ruin your repuation by not being friendly. My rule of thumb is if I can see there is a full group killing shit nearby, I go elsewhere. If I do kill something they think is in their camp, I just apologize for not knowing and move on. Most people aren't dicks about it.

[Vondra]

Technically, it is within the rules to claim a room of one of these larger "camps" by sitting in it and claiming it for yourself. It is within the letter of the law to do so.

In reality, I wouldn't do it, you're going to piss a lot of people off. If a group has control of an area like this, leave it alone and let them have it. General server culture has been working this way for a while now.

For example in Sebilis a crypt group generally will clear the 4 rooms of the crypt as well as the emperor and everything leading to it.

Good rule of thumb: Rather than figuring out exactly how to use the rules to get your way and annoy people with some sort of "BUT THE RULES SAY...." comment in game, just find out what they're killing and then kill something else instead.

[Xadion]

Heck...on the server I started with the basement was FOUR camps.

1) The room on the right as you entered basement...lowest level mobs.

2) The basement proper. Group would sit on ledge and pull all mobs in the main basement level. The mobs at top of stairs were part of this camp.

3) Warrior room. Included the mobs at the bottom of the stairs.

4) Raider room.

Thats how it was on veeshan... I dont get how groups loose their shitpants when someone comes in and wants to claim war room or something- its just like lguk when someone is doing lord/am - pick one give other...rules are clear. the ENTIRE HHK Basement imo IS NOT ONE camp.

[Lagaidh]

When folks started in 1999 they knew very little about the zones, and knew less about effective gear. That is now different. Folks get to this server knowing everything about their old favorite zones and they understand what gear they need to be the most effective. This means that the same make up of folks can accomplish a lot more in less time here than back in the day on live.

A full group can hold the basement at an appropriate level. It really is one camp these days.

I'm not addressing anything about KS vs Camp or any of that. I'm just saying that with today's average game knowledge... it's sort of silly to think of the basement as separate camps.

[Extunarian]

HHK basement groups still exist? I thought the low-midlevels were deserted?

[Lagaidh]

I'm just saying that "the way it used to be" doesn't necessarily apply.

For my money, when this sort of crap comes up... I usually just move along and leave whatever "camp" to the person deciding to be a dickhead. Their name goes on my wife's ignore list. No ports for j00! I can always go camp EC.

Now if it's for a rare item / long camp... I'm going to stay and keep trying regardless of any Johnny-Come-Lately's rationalizations as to "deserving".

If I'm there first; I'm going to keep killing.

[usedtobejubaloftorv]

HHK basement groups still exist? I thought the low-midlevels were deserted?

Reporting from about a month or two ago, it was sparsely populated but if you hung out there would often be enough people looking that you could put a group together. Pretty much anyone can do at least a little soloing down there while waiting, if they're the only one, and groups tend to form around who shows up.