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binibren
11-04-2009, 06:08 PM
Hello all,

I'm new around here having discovered Project 1999 just a few days ago. I've been looking around for the exact rule set on the server but haven't been able to find it. What I'm most curious about are changes from classic (xp modifiers, class bonuses, etc) and the time scale for implementing kunark and velious. I've seen a few references to it being similar to original (which would be kunark at 1 year) but nothing official.

Looking forward to old school EQ gaming.

Cheers,

Binibren of Bristlebane

President
11-04-2009, 06:23 PM
Everything should be how it was on classic (aside from like.. UI)..

I don't think weve received official word on how progression will work, i can't imagine they will wait a year to release Kunark as people know the game and are leveling much faster than before (even with less time to play). But I hope they let most people get a shot at the content before they release Kunark.

Reiker
11-04-2009, 09:58 PM
Cutting inbetween-expansion time in half would be perfect, I think. That means about another 5 months until Kunark, and then about 4-5 months after that for Velious.

Yoite
11-05-2009, 10:24 AM
i like it slow...well, acuatlly, i like it anyway i can get it ^_^

Tengo
11-05-2009, 10:35 AM
I would not be totally opposed to Kunark in half, but it has A LOT to offer. So I would be against Velious being released so shortly after. Maybe its the fact that Kunark was my favorite expansion hehe...

Kaleadar
11-05-2009, 12:47 PM
Here is the issue...

With progression servers, if you release content to fast you run into the issue of not being able to release anything new.

After velious is released the server will have 2 choices

1. deal with it
2. Wipe server and restart

Personally I am in no rush to get to either of those. If you decided to lvl to 50 in 1 week and farm everything known to man, it’s going to suck for you....

On the other hand I would like to hear the "official" word on this so we as players have an idea of what to expect. Also id like to have atleast 2 months warning before and expantion went into effect

thrawnseg
11-05-2009, 12:51 PM
If they are talented enough, you can always have custom content appear after Velious.

guineapig
11-05-2009, 01:19 PM
So is P1999 deadset against Luclin?

It doesn't matter to me because I could be going through content from Kunark/Velious forever but I'm just curious.

Yeah, the official word would be great. Won't make me any less a supporter whatever their answer is. I just want enough notice as mentioned previously to prepare for the content.

karsten
11-05-2009, 02:56 PM
pretty sure luclin is the reason most of us quit in the first place, brew

Enchia
11-05-2009, 05:05 PM
Personally, I would LOVE to see 'progression' follow the same as SoE (cringe to admit it) did when they released a progression server (actually 2 at once but let's not go there). You had to 'open' the expansions by killing dieties or complete long quests similar to epics but on a guild-size level. The true power gamers came out and ruined it by opening everything too damn fast even though there was a time-restriction between expansions. With the smaller player base here, and everybody's attitude and friendliness, it could be a blast to see that done again... then... just maybe... start all over again once we hit a certain point. Maybe...

Now, that said, it would be a test of how far the players really want to go. If we don't want luclin as some have suggested in this thread, we won't chase down the quests and mobs to open it. simple enough. The game stays as we want it... as we are able to progress it. Now, a minimul time must be set between expansions which will have to be decided by the organizers and programmers. Also, I realize this will require some special programming just to accomplish from the server side, but it can be done.

Sure, eventually, some power-hungry person would organize enough ppl who liked luclin or PoP... or further. This thought will also help players recruit others to expand our numbers. This noted, the counter for this, if the owners and programmers wish to stop the server at a certain level, it can be done simply by making the goals unmanagable for current population and slowly increase the difficulty of the mobs and quests required as population grows. Most of the players would never know. (smiles sadistically).

And, on a final note... I know I ramble and spit out way too much info all at once but it will give y'all somethin to consider I hope.

Look forward to gaming with everyone!

guineapig
11-05-2009, 05:11 PM
Just out of curiosity, how come?

I didn't really get into the game until Luclin so I was a late bloomer and missed out on much of the extremeness of the original game.

I used the Luclin ports like crazy back then. In hind site I see what it took away from the original experience. That's just one example I can think of. But I would love to have others opinions on what Luclin did to ruin their experience.

I'm ashamed to admit that I also enjoyed POP for the sheer epicness of the progression involved (even though I never made it to PoTime).

This time around I am really appreciating the massiveness of the game world and finding all sorts of things every day that I would have never come across due to endless teleport options. Off the top of my head, I just ran across Antonica the other day.... OMG!!! The passage between Highpass Hold and EK is larger than most zones in other games. And that's just the road leading from 1 to the other!!! That just really struck me as I have forgotten all about it.

binibren
11-05-2009, 05:19 PM
The 3 big Luclin changes in my mind are:

- new character models: looked almost nothing like the originals
- the nexus: compressed the size and feel of the world
- the bazaar: killed the user-created trading spots (ec tunnel on most servers)

Binibren of Bristlebane

Morfnblorsh
11-05-2009, 05:22 PM
God I hate the Luclin models. Everyone has those weird, dead eyes.

Falisaty
11-05-2009, 05:23 PM
Off the top of my head, I just ran across Antonica the other day.... OMG!!! The passage between Highpass Hold and EK is larger than most zones in other games. And that's just the road leading from 1 to the other!!! That just really struck me as I have forgotten all about it.

Are you talking about the climb up the mountain? If so yea that is a treck also try running out of HP and forgetting that drop off and running right over the edge.....

That Corpse run is a B@#ch having to run all they way down then running all they way back to it on the ground floor. ARGGGGGG

Jinkeybhoy
11-05-2009, 05:40 PM
To be honest I would not mind at all if Luclin were opened…

Sure the lore isn't the same as what it was up to the Velious era, but at this point it doesn't really matter unless the devs want to design new content.

The main complaint with Bazaar was that it killed the EC tunnel as a trading center and killed the economy. Since we do not have the population to support an EC tunnel there really isn't a reason why a central bazaar would be a bad thing.

In regards to the Nexus, with the translocators at the docks instead of long boat rides it really doesn't really make the trans-continental journey that much different.

The Luclin character models are easily disabled so I don't really see that being a problem

All that would need to be done to Luclin would be to nerf some of the gear and exp and that "world" would be set for a long time. All the devs would need to do is expand on the AA system to keep players happy for a little bit longer then look towards other options.

That's my 2 cents anyways

Skeletonya
11-05-2009, 06:20 PM
I could only be okay with Luclin like when the majority of the server also agreed to it.

I.e. at such a time when everyone has done everything they wanted to in classic, kunark, and velious.

Im honestly hoping things go nice and slow so I can get the most of out of each stage.

Goobles
11-05-2009, 06:34 PM
Guys guys guys... you are way ahead of yourselves. We aren't even to Kunark yet and you're talking about Luclin?

Come on...

Reiker
11-05-2009, 06:57 PM
I really enjoyed Luclin and Planes of Power on live. Ideally I'd like to see modified versions of these expansions released here. Such as:

Luclin:
* Paludal exp reduced
* Bazaar removed
* Disable all portals besides either the NK or Gfay one, to only have one way to go to/from Luclin
* All mobs' HP reduced, perhaps increase max hit to compensate
* Revamp Vex Thal. On live, Vex Thal was a huge disappointment after the well-designed encounters of Emp Ssra and Seru. You should be able to progress through the zone much more quickly, however the bosses should be much more interesting and difficult. Live's Vex Thal seemed like it was designed in an hour, and was just a snoozefest lacking any sort of creativity or fun. Worst part of Luclin.

PoP:
* Remove PoK
* Introduce a wizard portal to Tranquility and put all essential (read: no merchants, trainers, bankers...) NPCs in there.

Goobles
11-05-2009, 07:02 PM
Now we've passed Luclin, skipped LDoN and another expansion... and on to PoP? What's wrong with you people?!!?

Noser
11-05-2009, 09:18 PM
I think some of the raid content and AA's in Luclin were pretty awesome. Like someone else said just disable some of the portals and the bazaar and i think it would be a pretty enjoyable expansion.

Reiker
11-05-2009, 09:48 PM
Now we've passed Luclin, skipped LDoN and another expansion... and on to PoP? What's wrong with you people?!!?

LDON and LOY were post-PoP... how is that skipping anything? And what's so bad about cherry picking all the most fun elements of the game for 1 super server?

Reiker
11-05-2009, 09:51 PM
But now that you mention it, I'd be completely for skipping LOY and LDON content and releasing a difficulty-tuned GoD, cause that expansion was mostly good too, especially Tacvi.

guineapig
11-06-2009, 11:21 AM
Sorry, this was not meant as a derail. just wanted to get an idea of what people did not like about Luclin.

In any case I too am hoping to have time to catch up before Kunark comes out. Ideally I would like to be in my 40's by the time they open Hate and Air but it looks like I might miss the boat on that one.

Do we have a list of guilds for the server anywhere? I think I might need to start finding a group of "usual suspects" to go adventuring with.

Kaleadar
11-06-2009, 01:50 PM
Hello all,

I'm new around here having discovered Project 1999 just a few days ago. I've been looking around for the exact rule set on the server but haven't been able to find it. What I'm most curious about are changes from classic (xp modifiers, class bonuses, etc) and the time scale for implementing kunark and velious. I've seen a few references to it being similar to original (which would be kunark at 1 year) but nothing official.

Looking forward to old school EQ gaming.

Cheers,

Binibren of Bristlebane

Cant put my finger on it... but I think a point was missed someplace about page 2

binibren
11-06-2009, 02:17 PM
Cant put my finger on it... but I think a point was missed someplace about page 2

LOL. I know, I never did get that answer. But, it has sparked some lively debate on a tangential line. That's par for the course on the Internets these days and I really don't mind.

Reiker
11-06-2009, 02:30 PM
Well, the only one who can answer the OP's question is a GM, so in the meantime all we have is baseless conjecturing.

darnzen
11-10-2009, 12:24 AM
The problem is "end game" (relative to whatever expansion is active) is very tough and becomes trivial when you are exposed to the new items / levels in the next expansion. So "unlocking" simply by having one guild say kill Naggy / Vox / Cazic, would trivialize it for everyone else. I think it would be best to have the first kill of all the main raid targets start the clock for the expansion. So after they're all dead, Kunark is launched in 3-6 months. Something like that. Otherwise, everyone will wait until they're lvl 60 and geared up in Kunark gear to attempt PoF again after the first time. I mean, only a crazy person would go there without clerics with epics right?

Pyrocat
11-10-2009, 05:34 AM
a timer probably makes sense, but people are still going to try and down old world raid bosses.

Morfnblorsh
11-10-2009, 11:10 AM
I don't care what the system for unlocking the new content is, as long as we don't end up with a singular gigantic raiding guild having everything permanently camped and controlled at all times.

I'm not saying that this is what is happening right now, I'm only saying that I don't want that to be the case in the future. I want to see some healthy competition. :D

stormlord
11-10-2009, 11:14 AM
I kind of wish that no expansions would be added, but oh well. Every new expansion will add a bit more mudflation and devalue the previous content just a bit more than the last. It'll also spread players out more and discourage people not in the latest content.

This server is TINY and you guys are talking about opening kunark already. Crazy. It took what, a full year for kunark to be released? That was when each server had 4000+ people. We got 300? The rest of us will take more time than you, why are you in such a hurry? It'll take a long time for most people to see the best of pre-kunark. People will make alts too. I don't see any need to rush. We've been rushing for 10 years. I'd like to fully appreciate everything, it's nice not to see it get steamrolled by so called "progress". When GOD was released, the bulk of all eq players were < level 50. Smedly himself admitted that in 2004. That's just the ugly truth. It might be that this average was inflated by alts (not mains), but this wasn't specified. SOE, over the years, pushed too hard and catered too much to raiders and high levels. Do we have to go down that road too? Look behind you, it's nothing but dead zones and ruins!

When atleast 50% of the server has been involved in the nagefen raids or the planar raids and been a part of killing the worst baddies, then maybe I'll accept it's time to launch the next expansion. But until then, all we'd be doing is exactly what soe did - catering to a minority that kicks and screams when it doesn't get its candy. Then the lower levels and casuals get dragged along with them not being able to fully appreciate what's around them and never really being a part of it what made it happen. It's sad! Makes me die inside.

Look at getting new players and keeping them company. Develop the community. A lot of us don't play 5 hours a day and we often go on vacation too. How would you feel if you came back from vacation and find that there's noeone in splitpaw because they're all in kunark or velious? You'd pinch yourself and wish you hadn't went on vacation. That's a memory you'll never be able to recover. Now your thrust into kunark or velious, doomed to repeat the same thing because you just can't play 5 hours a day every day for a year.

Relax or go somewhere else for a while. Let the casuals and slow levelers appreciate it. Please.

stormlord
11-10-2009, 11:59 AM
Now we've passed Luclin, skipped LDoN and another expansion... and on to PoP? What's wrong with you people?!!?

Either they smelled the roses a long time ago and are on to something else, or they can't smell and never noticed that roses smell good.

stormlord
11-10-2009, 12:04 PM
The problem is "end game" (relative to whatever expansion is active) is very tough and becomes trivial when you are exposed to the new items / levels in the next expansion. So "unlocking" simply by having one guild say kill Naggy / Vox / Cazic, would trivialize it for everyone else. I think it would be best to have the first kill of all the main raid targets start the clock for the expansion. So after they're all dead, Kunark is launched in 3-6 months. Something like that. Otherwise, everyone will wait until they're lvl 60 and geared up in Kunark gear to attempt PoF again after the first time. I mean, only a crazy person would go there without clerics with epics right?

Bottom line, close the doors of the gas station and lockupt the cement rollers and put away the construction hats until MOST people have done it. A 3-6 month absolute buffer is not good enough. We'd need a vote or a script or some way of knowing who has and hasn't been a part of the biggest raids pre-kunark. Without being able to know and being able to get the opinions of the public at large, we're simply moving forward for the sake of moving forward - and this often happens at the expense of the less fortunate.

And expecting all of this to happen on the same timescales as it did in EQ is absurd. As I've already touched on, the population numbers on this server are dwarfed, DWARFED, by those seen in EQ. 1 year, are you kidding? We're noewhere near saturation. People, like raiders and those with lots of time might get saturated and tired and go on breaks and even extended vacations, and scream all the time about wanting kunark/velious, but overall, saturation is a distant reality until most people are at this point.

If you cater to the people who play a lot and raid, and then open kunark/velious to satisfy them, you're forcing the mechanics of mudflation on the entire population!!! That should not happen without MINIMALLY a popular vote.

In summary, some people play too much. You shouldn't let their play-style rule over all others. And this is not SOE. This is not for profit. We're a community that feed this server with donations. This means we VOTE. We don't force progress down the throats of people without an open vote to determine whether that's what people really want. This is not a company. This is people.

entilza
11-10-2009, 12:16 PM
I wouldn't worry too much it seems the devs are on top of it, it's called project 1999 afterall, I'm sure most who joined did not expect to be killing seb anytime soon :)

Morfnblorsh
11-10-2009, 12:16 PM
Just one thing I need to point out.

The population is tiny compared to what live used to be, and even what it is now. This is true. But prior knowledge is a powerful tool as well and it can supplant the lack of extreme numbers once required. Nagafen was killed by SEVENTEEN PEOPLE. Do you remember how many it used to take?

They were able to accomplish this because they knew how he behaves, read up on him, have possibly done it before, and planned out a really good strategy based on all that information. Also manastones. :p

stormlord
11-10-2009, 12:21 PM
Just one thing I need to point out.

The population is tiny compared to what live used to be, and even what it is now. This is true. But prior knowledge is a powerful tool as well and it can supplant the lack of extreme numbers once required. Nagafen was killed by SEVENTEEN PEOPLE. Do you remember how many it used to take?

They were able to accomplish this because they knew how he behaves, read up on him, have possibly done it before, and planned out a really good strategy based on all that information. Also manastones. :p

I killed Fippy Darkpaw. Tiime to launch Kunark. Just because some people are experts and have seen it all, does not mean everyone else has too. There're a lot of people that never got the chance to experience classic eq, pre-kunark. Are you going to let the veterans dictate the pace of progression and shove it down the throats of those new to this content, whom simply want to appreciate it?

I have news for you. I've played EQ off and on for 10 years. I played for a few months in 1999. I never got the chance to see what it was like after level 15 in pre-kunark. When I got back in 2001/02, I pretty much left the pre-kunark content for velious and to this day I wonder what it would have been like to experience it all before being shoved into later expansions.

messiah_b
11-10-2009, 12:24 PM
Release Kunark as a honeypot that when you zone in destroys all character inventory and bank and changes you to a 6th level erudite paladin named Sir Notappearinginthisgame.

Takshaka
11-10-2009, 12:26 PM
Just one thing I need to point out.

The population is tiny compared to what live used to be, and even what it is now. This is true. But prior knowledge is a powerful tool as well and it can supplant the lack of extreme numbers once required. Nagafen was killed by SEVENTEEN PEOPLE. Do you remember how many it used to take?

They were able to accomplish this because they knew how he behaves, read up on him, have possibly done it before, and planned out a really good strategy based on all that information. Also manastones. :p

Although this is true, I would also point out that many of the players on here have far less time than they used to. Sure the really hardcore players are going to be able to devote nearly as much time as they did back in the day, but I know that I myself have about 1/10th as much time to play as I did 10 years ago. Sure I am able to accomplish more in less time as this isnt my first time going through everything. However, I still don't think that justifies opening up Kunark in any kind of near future. It has been only a month right?

thrawnseg
11-10-2009, 12:27 PM
Just one thing I need to point out.

The population is tiny compared to what live used to be, and even what it is now. This is true. But prior knowledge is a powerful tool as well and it can supplant the lack of extreme numbers once required. Nagafen was killed by SEVENTEEN PEOPLE. Do you remember how many it used to take?

They were able to accomplish this because they knew how he behaves, read up on him, have possibly done it before, and planned out a really good strategy based on all that information. Also manastones. :p

I'm pretty sure they kill Nagafen due to the overpower of mages and manastones. I don't even think they had a bard for resists... so that means Nagafen isn't like live or the classes they took are overpowered.

Morfnblorsh
11-10-2009, 12:28 PM
stormlord, I completely agree with all your points. My post was not meant to oppose yours in any way. I just felt it was worth pointing out that waiting for a larger player base should also not be something that dictates when the new content is released.

That's all. :)

stormlord
11-10-2009, 12:33 PM
stormlord, I completely agree with all your points. My post was not meant to oppose yours in any way. I just felt it was worth pointing out that waiting for a larger player base should also not be something that dictates when the new content is released.

That's all. :)

If there were 15 people on the server and atleast 50% of them had participated meaningfully in the endgame raids pre-kunark and the popular vote supported a move to kunark, then I'd be all for it. Just keep in mind all the people out there that want to see pre-kunark before all of the expansion mudflation was present, and won't be able to. But, above all, it's a popular vote that does the dictating.

eqravenprince
11-10-2009, 01:13 PM
I'm in the crowd of people that enjoy the journey, enjoy leveling up alts, love grouping, and I don't need to max out my character to have fun. It will take a long long time before I get bored of pre Kunark EQ, and I may never get bored of it. In the end, people who don't need to progress to be happy, are the people that will stay when it stops progressing.

Bigcountry23
11-10-2009, 01:14 PM
But, above all, it's a popular vote that does the dictating.

I was unaware that this was a Democracy. My understanding is it is a benevolent dictatorship under the rule of the Dev's. Remember, it's THEIR world now...

aVoided
11-10-2009, 01:59 PM
please for the love of all holy in the everquest lands keep the server classic like it states. I really hope the devs use the verant motto *You're in our world* if you don't like it.. leave.

Pyrocat
11-10-2009, 03:21 PM
I'm pretty sure they kill Nagafen due to the overpower of mages and manastones. I don't even think they had a bard for resists... so that means Nagafen isn't like live or the classes they took are overpowered.

I enjoy baseless conjecturing as much as the next guy, but try and have at least SOME information to go off of before shitting on a whole group of dedicated players accomplishments.

There was maaaaybe 1 or 2 mages on the raid, and manastones were primarily used to help lower the time required to buff everyone (which still took forever). The Naggy kill was legit and well-done. Nagafen is as close as possible to live, completely MR and FR and still extremely difficult, but we had been collecting FR/MR gear since we started leveling, and it's not like the fight requires a brand new strategy.

Penoy
11-10-2009, 03:44 PM
i actually dont remember a mage being there to be honest... sorry if i forgot you lol

Morfnblorsh
11-10-2009, 04:07 PM
I hope I did not offend Inglourious Basterds with my post about population/attendees to the Naggy kill. It was not my intention at all.

I was mentioning how few people you'd triumphed with as a good thing for the server if it were to remain low population and stating that population shouldn't be a factor in deciding when Kunark opens. Reference to IBs was just to show that people are still skilled enough to accomplish goals even with fewer people, and absolutely nothing more.

The Manastone comment (the one I made, that is) was just the harmless prank of a charming rascal.

:D

messiah_b
11-10-2009, 05:28 PM
...it will take a long long time before I get bored of pre Kunark EQ, and I may never get bored of it...

12 months was way too little time for an average person to enjoy the original content. As a lifelong gamer I consider this short period one of the great tragedies of the Nintendo generation.

President
11-10-2009, 06:06 PM
I hope the lowbies get the opportunity to level up and do some naggy/vox/hate/fear before they release kunark.

Jero
11-11-2009, 02:48 AM
i dont think enough people take into consideration how big the world is and how small the population is ... almost 300 ? if all almost 300 of that is 50 then fine, but thats not likely.

i dont think this game can even survive velious ... sure maybe a few cliques can enjoy it ... but there will be near no pick up groups due to how spread out everyone is over the entire world

as it is rigth now, zones that were once packed are empty, everyone s segregated to a few zones to level ... if i want to go to uguk i have to take a group there ... i cant go there and LFG ... this server needs to stay classic , till it has a population to move to kunark

if it doesnt have a populatio to support whats current , how can it move forward ... your best bet for kunark and velious would be to try and spread the word ... if more people dont come , we dont get new content ... and thats the bottom line

stormlord
11-11-2009, 08:20 AM
i dont think enough people take into consideration how big the world is and how small the population is ... almost 300 ? if all almost 300 of that is 50 then fine, but thats not likely.

i dont think this game can even survive velious ... sure maybe a few cliques can enjoy it ... but there will be near no pick up groups due to how spread out everyone is over the entire world

as it is rigth now, zones that were once packed are empty, everyone s segregated to a few zones to level ... if i want to go to uguk i have to take a group there ... i cant go there and LFG ... this server needs to stay classic , till it has a population to move to kunark

if it doesnt have a populatio to support whats current , how can it move forward ... your best bet for kunark and velious would be to try and spread the word ... if more people dont come , we dont get new content ... and thats the bottom line

People can play solo classes, but I think you got a big big point. When they designed the classes, the zones, the gameplay, the economy, everything, they designed it for a much larger population than what project1999 can realistically support even in the best circumstances.

Going back to classic is great, but not unless you can either: a) change the design to reflect the lower population b) increase your population to meet the specifications of the design. Is there a C? That's up to the community. I believe that if the community comes together much more than they did in 1999 to keep this server strong despite its low population then there's a chance that it might work, but we'll all be swimming upstream.

Most of us are going to start out as a solo-based class and work our way up. Some won't. Some will grow frustrated because of bugs and empty zones. We're going to have to reach out to everyone out there from level 1 on up and give them a hand even when the temptation of hoarding our wealth presents itself. Sine we're all very much aware of the design constraints of classic eq, perhaps we can use this knowledge to better educate everyone and work together in ways we might otherwise have overlooked had we not known.

Get the word out, but do it safely: respect soe, respect the live eq servers (don't advertise on them or on the official servers). If someone specifically brings up classic eq or something related to it, you can send them a pm in the forums to find out whether they're interested. No matter what happens, unfortunately, it looks like this project is very dependent on eqemulator.net. If that site cannot get people playing then it'll have a corresponding effect here.

One advantage that project1999 has is that it's resurrecting a time in EQ's history that, for the most part, no longer exists. It can use this to its advantage to give players an experience unlike most others they're familiar with in the everquest community. This I think might help to compensate for its present design issues and bugs. On the other hand, this is also its flaw. Redesigning it to reflect this lower population would automatically make it unworthy of this distinction. It would essentially be our own subjective viewpoint of what everquest was in 1999. So people wouldn't come here for the context; the historical value. Despite this, it may be that altering the design turns out to be the only workable alternative, but I hope this is not the case and that we can somehow prove it all wrong.