Summon interval (Howling Stones / all world)

[DoucLangur]

pre Planes of Power, summon interval was 11 (eleven) seconds.

While I did not hunt in Howling Stones on live, it would strike me as extremely odd if this was different in here of all Kunark and Velious zones.

This "A helot skeleton" in Howling Stones just summoned me in as low as 6 second intervals, which makes it clearly overpowered.

All summoning mobs in Kunark and Velious that I can remember pre PoP had an 11 seconds refresh on their summon ability. Including raid encounters.

Comments / logfiles of old please, and fix if Howling Stones was never an exception to the rule.

[Wed Dec 21 20:02:39 2011] You have been summoned!
[Wed Dec 21 20:02:54 2011] You have been summoned!
[Wed Dec 21 20:03:00 2011] You have been summoned!
[Wed Dec 21 20:03:07 2011] You have been summoned!
[Wed Dec 21 20:03:13 2011] You have been summoned!
[Wed Dec 21 20:03:19 2011] You have been summoned!
[Wed Dec 21 20:03:25 2011] You have been summoned!
[Wed Dec 21 20:03:31 2011] You have been summoned!
[Wed Dec 21 20:03:37 2011] You have been summoned!
[Wed Dec 21 20:03:44 2011] You have been summoned!
[Wed Dec 21 20:03:51 2011] You have been summoned!
[Wed Dec 21 20:04:06 2011] You have been summoned!
[Wed Dec 21 20:04:24 2011] You have been summoned!
[Wed Dec 21 20:04:50 2011] You have been summoned!

[DoucLangur]

bump! This is definitely not okay - same low summon interval in Sebilis crypt as of today. Comments please!

[Uthgaard]

It's a 6 second delay between summons. This is working correctly.

[DoucLangur]

What I mean is - the summon interval is supposed to be 11 seconds. Sadly the only mob that I have such a perfect vivid memory of to know for sure it was >10 seconds is Lodizal, but I am pretty sure I was nastily surprised of the 6 second Planes of Power summon interval *because* I had never seen it before.

For Lodizal: I beat him with my necro at level 65 only because I could summon-kite him: Between summons, I had the time to run ahead of him with SoW potions, and cast exactly *one* spell, before he summoned me - and I had to get the timing exactly right so that he wouldn't interrupt the casting with summon, or catch up to me and melee me first.

I did the sebilite protector with a similar tactic, kiting him underwater near the bridge in Trakanons Lair, but my memory is not nearly as good.

Anyways - that is why I was asking for comments. And I will hope to look up some sources. Maybe someone with an active live account can go to sebilis and other kunark zones that have not been revamped, and check what the summon interval is currently - for verification.

The shorter summon interval is a gamechanger, makes many encounters a lot tougher - I can currently not even step back from a stationary mob to finish casting a spell before I get summoned again. And when tanking a mob, it will often - even when I am in melee range - summon me so far into itself, that it turns around and the rogues can't backstab until I move out again. But that's another issue... not sure if that was classic.

Cheers
Slozem

[nilbog]

Do some research. If you find evidence to support your claim, it will be investigated.

I did one google search.. which yielded results not favorable to your argument.

https://www.google.com/#q=%2B%22summon+every+6+seconds%22&hl=en&prmd=imvnsfd&filter=0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=4b3c420078196b39&biw=1184&bih=549

[DoucLangur]

Do some research. If you find evidence to support your claim, it will be investigated.

I did one google search.. which yielded results not favorable to your argument.

https://www.google.com/#q=%2B%22summon+every+6+seconds%22&hl=en&prmd=imvnsfd&filter=0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=4b3c420078196b39&biw=1184&bih=549 (https://www.google.com/#q=%2B%22summon+every+6+seconds%22&hl=en&prmd=imvnsfd&filter=0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=4b3c420078196b39&biw=1184&bih=549)

That's what I call selective search approach :) If you search for "summon every 6 seconds", I am not surprised at the results you get. You can do the same for "summon every 10 seconds" and get results about EQ. Also, in your search results, there is a comment (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/classes.html?class=14&mid=11674366991825600) from 2007 on zam, saying "Most mobs these days summon every 6 seconds" which is a good indication that the poster knows previously the summon interval was different.

http://eqbeastiary.allakhazam.com/search.html?id=8667

Check the comment from Dec. 16 2007 No. 2 here:
http://eqbeastiary.allakhazam.com/search.shtml?id=4571

The guy says:
2. If you have an HP buff so you have 4k - 5k HP you wanna get and keep aggro. get summoned, run away, lifetap, and poison nuke when time and HP allow.
Run away & lifetap can not possibly work with a necro: The shortest necro lifetap was 3 seconds cast time in 2007. With 6 second summon interval, you'd have 2 seconds to run away - in which you couldn't even get out of melee range of this guy...

I found a couple more posts on zam indicating that the summon refresh timer was high enough for backing off and casting something/shooting arrows, before being summoned again - but no one talks about an explicit summon interval / refresh timer.

I am gonna dig up my oldest logs and see what I have.

Cheers
Slozem

[Rogean]

I'll save you some time and say now that even if you did find proof that it was 11, it's unlikely I would change it. As we get closer to velious and mobs that will be permarooted, the tactic of summon kiting will be utilized, and increasing the duration would trivialize many encounters. Even without permaroot it would still be an issue for many encounters.

[Autotune]

i've seen tactics posted on other sites for necros similar to what he is saying. The same tactics aren't viable here with mobs that summon, that is for certain. I've never seen anyone list a specific summoning time either tho. Like he stated it's usually "get summoned, back out and cast blah blah, get summoned back away and so forth" On p99 ur almost always being summoned so you're lucky if you can get off one of ur quickest spells.

I've also seen some necro tactics for certain mobs where people are out of melee range but inside of the summoning range. (so they don't get hit, or get summoned) This I've tried once and failed so never tried again lol, i imagine it doesn't work here at all.

Like Rogean says tho, I don't see it getting changed. Many things on p99 will not get changed to make it easier. Pretty much anything that made classic hard stays, anything that trivializes classic goes.

[Uthgaard]

Those tactics are valid in a 6 second interval. I used to do it, that's how I know that the 6 second interval is correct without needing to look it up. The inaccurate portion is the assumption that everyone and their brother should be able to do it effortlessly, with their mouths hanging open and mashing random buttons.

It's hard to do, and not everyone will be able to get the gear to make it possible, and have the reaction time or know all of the tricks necessary to make it work.

[Reikerx]

I'll save you some time and say now that even if you did find proof that it was 11, it's unlikely I would change it. As we get closer to velious and mobs that will be permarooted, the tactic of summon kiting will be utilized, and increasing the duration would trivialize many encounters. Even without permaroot it would still be an issue for many encounters.

Why? That's why they implemented Call of the Zero. Velious raid mobs use that at like 1 second delay, not the generic summon ability. This prevents summon kiting already.

[DoucLangur]

This here is the shortest time between 2 summons I have found in my log of the Combine (progression) server:

Sebilis:
[Sun Aug 20 22:22:06 2006] froglok ilis knight says 'You will not evade me Pollution!'
[Sun Aug 20 22:22:06 2006] Froglok ilis knight staggers.
[Sun Aug 20 22:22:06 2006] Gaseker staggers.
[Sun Aug 20 22:22:07 2006] Froglok ilis knight has taken 81 damage from your Bond of Death.
[Sun Aug 20 22:22:08 2006] Avicenna tells the group, 'i guess the other camp means i can pull the named from here easier'
[Sun Aug 20 22:22:09 2006] Froglok ilis knight staggers.
[Sun Aug 20 22:22:09 2006] Gaseker staggers.
[Sun Aug 20 22:22:11 2006] Avicenna tells the group, 'Incoming Complete Healing to >>> Pollution <<<'
[Sun Aug 20 22:22:11 2006] Avicenna begins to cast a spell.
[Sun Aug 20 22:22:12 2006] Keldonis tells the group, 'yeah lets help him get a robe'
[Sun Aug 20 22:22:13 2006] Froglok ilis knight has taken 84 damage from your Bond of Death.
[Sun Aug 20 22:22:15 2006] You begin casting Screaming Terror.
[Sun Aug 20 22:22:16 2006] You tell your party, 'a sebilite golem mezzed'
[Sun Aug 20 22:22:16 2006] froglok ilis knight says 'You will not evade me Pollution!'

The Ruins of Old Paineel:
[Fri Aug 25 01:48:45 2006] Your Screaming Terror spell has worn off of a rock golem.
[Fri Aug 25 01:48:45 2006] a rock golem says 'You will not evade me Maliciosa!'
[Fri Aug 25 01:48:45 2006] You have been summoned!
[Fri Aug 25 01:48:45 2006] A rock golem hits YOU for 126 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 25 01:48:45 2006] A rock golem hits YOU for 224 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 25 01:48:46 2006] A flighty fiend has taken 23 damage from your Splurt.
[Fri Aug 25 01:48:46 2006] Xonann bashes a rock golem for 10 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 25 01:48:48 2006] Xonann hits a rock golem for 20 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 25 01:48:48 2006] A rock golem hits YOU for 135 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 25 01:48:48 2006] A rock golem hits YOU for 197 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 25 01:48:49 2006] Rusten tells the group, 'yeah my bad thought iwas casting tap'
[Fri Aug 25 01:48:49 2006] A flighty fiend bashes YOU for 19 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 25 01:48:49 2006] Tuazen begins to cast a spell.
[Fri Aug 25 01:48:50 2006] Xonann hits a rock golem for 36 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 25 01:48:50 2006] Xonann tells you, 'I am unable to wake a flighty fiend, master.'
[Fri Aug 25 01:48:50 2006] Taunting attacker, Master.
[Fri Aug 25 01:48:51 2006] You begin casting Feign Death.
[Fri Aug 25 01:48:51 2006] A flighty fiend has taken 36 damage from your Splurt.
[Fri Aug 25 01:48:51 2006] a flighty fiend has been awakened by Maliciosa.
[Fri Aug 25 01:48:52 2006] A flighty fiend hits YOU for 33 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 25 01:48:52 2006] You regain your concentration and continue your casting.
[Fri Aug 25 01:48:53 2006] an elemental wizard begins to cast a spell.
[Fri Aug 25 01:48:53 2006] Xonann hits a rock golem for 47 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 25 01:48:53 2006] Xonann hits a rock golem for 47 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 25 01:48:54 2006] Tuazen hit a flighty fiend for 855 points of non-melee damage.
[Fri Aug 25 01:48:54 2006] A flighty fiend screams as a magic force rends their flesh.
[Fri Aug 25 01:48:55 2006] Xonann hits a rock golem for 13 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 25 01:48:56 2006] a flighty fiend begins to use a rock golem as a living shield!
[Fri Aug 25 01:48:56 2006] a rock golem says 'You will not evade me Destructioner!'


Plane of Hate:
[Fri Sep 01 00:16:04 2006] a loathling lich says 'You will not evade me Velvetmoon!'
[Fri Sep 01 00:16:04 2006] a loathling lich begins to cast a spell.
[Fri Sep 01 00:16:05 2006] A loathling lich's body begins to splurt.
[Fri Sep 01 00:16:05 2006] A loathling lich looks angry.
[Fri Sep 01 00:16:06 2006] Taunting attacker, Master.
[Fri Sep 01 00:16:06 2006] a loathling lich regains concentration and continues casting.
[Fri Sep 01 00:16:06 2006] You resist the Immobilize spell!
[Fri Sep 01 00:16:07 2006] A loathling lich has taken 136 damage from your Ignite Blood.
[Fri Sep 01 00:16:07 2006] A loathling lich has taken 11 damage from your Splurt.
[Fri Sep 01 00:16:08 2006] a loathling lich begins to cast a spell.
[Fri Sep 01 00:16:08 2006] Uggme staggers.
[Fri Sep 01 00:16:08 2006] A loathling lich staggers.
[Fri Sep 01 00:16:09 2006] a loathling lich begins to cast a spell.
[Fri Sep 01 00:16:10 2006] Uggme scores a critical hit! (35)
[Fri Sep 01 00:16:11 2006] Velvetmoon begins to cast a spell.
[Fri Sep 01 00:16:11 2006] Your feet adhere to the ground.
[Fri Sep 01 00:16:12 2006] Taunting attacker, Master.
[Fri Sep 01 00:16:13 2006] Kebarn backstabs a loathling lich for 80 points of damage.
[Fri Sep 01 00:16:13 2006] A loathling lich has taken 127 damage from your Ignite Blood.
[Fri Sep 01 00:16:13 2006] A loathling lich has taken 23 damage from your Splurt.
[Fri Sep 01 00:16:13 2006] a loathling lich begins to cast a spell.
[Fri Sep 01 00:16:14 2006] Kebarn hits a loathling lich for 22 points of damage.
[Fri Sep 01 00:16:14 2006] A loathling lich staggers.
[Fri Sep 01 00:16:14 2006] Kebarn staggers.
[Fri Sep 01 00:16:14 2006] Kebarn hits a loathling lich for 44 points of damage.
[Fri Sep 01 00:16:14 2006] Kebarn hits a loathling lich for 17 points of damage.
[Fri Sep 01 00:16:15 2006] Velvetmoon hit a loathling lich for 571 points of non-melee damage.
[Fri Sep 01 00:16:15 2006] A loathling lich's mind warps.
[Fri Sep 01 00:16:15 2006] a loathling lich says 'You will not evade me Velvetmoon!'

Of course this doesn't prove the interval can't be shorter, and I could forge it - but I ask everyone to check their log files for any summon interval less than 10 seconds by the same mob (please make sure it isn't 2 mobs of the same name summoning ;)

I just analyzed 115 MB of 2005/06 Logfiles from Antonius Bayle and The Combine (Progression):
- filtered lines with "will not evade" into a text file
- opened in OpenOffice Calc as text import, columns separated by space
- created 4 new columns with:
a) timespan between previous and current summon
b) timespan between current and next summon
c) filter column to have value 1 when either timespan is less than 12 seconds
d) column with the smaller value of a) and b) to hold the smallest timespans between summons

I then looked through all lines that had a value of 1 in column c) and thus an interesting summon time:
The *only* mob I have found pre-Planes of Power with a summon interval of less than 10 seconds was Cazic Thule in the revamped (epics) Plane of Fear: he summons in 6 second intervals.

Am happy to provide logfile extracts with the summon lines - am still looking for older logfiles, but I may have lost them in a HD crash.

[DoucLangur]

That being said and seeing the responses posted in the meantime: Rogean, it's your server - so do as you like. I pointed it out because I was sure (and after analyzing my logfiles am convinced) that the classic summon interval was higher (apparently 10 seconds), and because I understand we're striving to be as classic as possible here.

My "job" is only to point out non-classic mechanics/find evidence - not to decide what to implement.

Nevertheless, I would like to see it implemented, as it is *quite* different gameplay and I like to compare my achievements here with the live achievements back then - it's not as much fun needing a bigger force than I used to for the same content.

Kind Regards & stop responding to me when you're supposed to be enjoying christmas eve ;) (appreciated though)

Slozem

[Versus]

I'll save you some time and say now that even if you did find proof that it was 11, it's unlikely I would change it. As we get closer to velious and mobs that will be permarooted, the tactic of summon kiting will be utilized, and increasing the duration would trivialize many encounters. Even without permaroot it would still be an issue for many encounters.

I'll save you some time and say now that even if you did find proof that it was 11, it's unlikely I would change it. As we get closer to velious and mobs that will be permarooted

As we get closer to velious.

[Odonk]

I'll save you some time and say now that even if you did find proof that it was 11, it's unlikely I would change it. As we get closer to velious and mobs that will be permarooted, the tactic of summon kiting will be utilized, and increasing the duration would trivialize many encounters. Even without permaroot it would still be an issue for many encounters.

http://www.project1999.org/forums/images/p99-gold-flat.gif
Mostly Classic Everquest

[Uthgaard]

Except that the 6 second implementation is correct.

http://www.project1999.org/forums/images/p99-gold-flat.gif
Mostly Classic Everquest

Mostly fail statement.

[Autotune]

Those tactics are valid in a 6 second interval. I used to do it, that's how I know that the 6 second interval is correct without needing to look it up. The inaccurate portion is the assumption that everyone and their brother should be able to do it effortlessly, with their mouths hanging open and mashing random buttons.

It's hard to do, and not everyone will be able to get the gear to make it possible, and have the reaction time or know all of the tricks necessary to make it work.

actually the mob speed and hit boxes along with a 6sec summon is why it's not practical on p99.

It's possible that It can be done (look at the learning curve of kiting bards). However, from a necro standpoint, it is more trouble than it's worth trying to use any of those tactics with a summoning mob. It would be more efficient to use a different tactic rather than trying to yoyo a summoning mob on p99.

[Rais]

I'll save you some time and say now that even if you did find proof that it was 11, it's unlikely I would change it. As we get closer to velious and mobs that will be permarooted, the tactic of summon kiting will be utilized, and increasing the duration would trivialize many encounters. Even without permaroot it would still be an issue for many encounters.

You maybe thinking of Shadows of Luclin. The only mob that ended up being rooted in Velious was Vulak`Aerr and that was months after the expansion went live when they made him into a "spawnable" dragon.

Tormax, AoW+spawn cycle, Dain, Sleeper Tombs Guardians, Djokojjonmnasaijai whateverhis name was, every other dragon in ToV weren't rooted.

Shadow's of Luclin Ssra temple Snake mini bosses, and even Seru were perma rooted at the start of the expansion, but it was removed since they wouldn't summon at all. I think they re-enabled them being rooted but not 100%.

[Reikerx]

Yeah I can't remember any Velious mobs being perma-rooted either.

[DoucLangur]

Yeah I can't remember any Velious mobs being perma-rooted either.

Oh there were a couple of dragons in NToV - and WToV... and I believe even one or two dragons in western wastes?

Also - Tunare in PoGrowth?

[Rais]

Nope everythig was pulled,or we moved into position and then pulled. We even pulled tunare to the wall so the knock back didn't wipe the raid.

You can even find videos of NTOV of every dragon training around on the inside due to vulak had to be killed last.

Nothing of major raid status was rooted in velious. I don't even recall anything at all that was.

[DoucLangur]

Your information may be correct for original velious. Around the time that I raided NToV (PoP/LDoN era), the mobs I mentioned were rooted.

[nilbog]

This is a video from when ntov dragons weren't rooted. Fun times.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rl_7koIkcc

Beware: terrible quality

[DoucLangur]

This is a video from when ntov dragons weren't rooted. Fun times.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rl_7koIkcc

Hehe - I actually remember seeing that before ever going there... Aaryonar the doorkeeper and friends - though I would really like to know how they managed to get that kind of train without Aaryonar dead... Leeroy Jenkins moment?

Cheers

Slozem (still would appreciate a classic summon interval ;)

[Uthgaard]

Wish granted.

You already have it.

[DoucLangur]

Wish granted.

You already have it.

Uth - as much as I agree with you on other things, you're not gonna make something true just by repeating it over and over :p 6 seconds summon interval is not classic - apart from possibly CT himself and a few other bossmobs.

The only reason I won't argue for this anymore is because it's neither my server not am I asked to pay for it - so I'm not gonna rant about decisions made.

Kind regards

Slozem

[Szeth]

Im always interested by people who have such adamant accounts of the way things were...

Don't give up Slozem, just post some evidence!

[Uthgaard]

We aren't obligated to provide proof every time someone posts a bug thread. (Even though in this case, we have)
You are obligated to provide proof that it was different. You have not. (Because you can't)

[Szeth]

Secretly I wanted to watch his ennui as he fought the uphill struggle against the better informed tyrants who reign supreme above us.

Phew, that was a mouth full.

[Rais]

I too remember summons happening longer than 6 seconds. I use to solo in seblis as a wizard and having time to sunstrike between summons. Same thing with some mobs in fear especially the fingers.

Farming haste belts in seb was all the craze, and as a geared out wizard I could. I'll try and find proof but this is one of those things not well documented knowledge.

[Droxx]

I'm not in this fight but:

http://thedruidsgrove.org/archive/eq/t-2132.html
http://www.therunes.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2567
http://www.guildportal.com/Guild.aspx?GuildID=9508&ForumID=59492&TabID=77837&TopicID=562582&Page=2 (second page towards the end)

found by "everquest mob summon timer"

[DoucLangur]

Thanks Droxx - although interestingly enough most of this refers to planes of power, which is the first expansion I remember to have shorter summon intervals :) But that is also hinted at by some comments in the links you provided.

Either way - I'd say there's enough evidence in this thread to support the bug report, what the devs make of it is up to them. If the server is not meant to be true classic, but rather some kind of "balanced classic" - then so be it.

Slozem

[Motec]

Its funny how 'special' uthgaard is.

6sec is wrong. Its well known. But uth is such a twit who trolls bugs section all day now instead of doing something useful that its futile to argue.

I'll donate $100 to the server every month to see him banned from the forums and games. What a cock.

[Uthgaard]

6 seconds was proven correct by two developers and you have a third who said he won't change it even if it wasn't correct (which it is). In those 3 links, one makes no mention of the interval, and the other two are from 2005, and still wrong even from that time.

It's not hard, surprising, or even the first time that I've explained this, but there's no shortage of contradictory information out there. For every fact about everquest, there is a post with contradictory information about it somewhere. I can produce posts that claim gnomes can't be rogues, or that dark elves have sneak. Doesn't mean they're true. And for every fact someone gets wrong, there's at least one person butthurt enough to rage like a child over not getting the game made easier.

If it was wrong, you'd have proof. You don't. Get over it.

[Rais]

6 seconds was proven correct by two developers and you have a third who said he won't change it even if it wasn't correct (which it is).
He said since mobs are perma rooted in Velious he wouldn't change it. That isn't the case. So if we do find "proof" we can try and get it changed back to "classic"

It's not hard, surprising, or even the first time that I've explained this, but there's no shortage of contradictory information out there. For every fact about everquest, there is a post with contradictory information about it somewhere.

I agree that there are contradictory information out there about eq. Yet you can find stuff that has been changed, and find little information about it before hand. Such as this. There is a post from 2007 talking about mobs now summoning at 6 seconds, I've only found one post that says this so far. Everything else has been around 12 seconds to summon from Al'Kbar server to other guides up to 2005. So if all the info you can find about mobs summoning after 2007ish are 6 second timers, and all the info you can find pre 2007 say 12 seconds. Deductive reasoning would point towards a a common theme of somewhere around an expansion around 2007ish time period mob summoning times were shorted due to mobs being perma rooted in those expansions.

Nilbog posted he found stuff at 6 seconds to summon was 1 post about
The warping and stuff is due, I believe, to problems with the new collision system. Had reports of boss mobs warping all over the place on corner tanks, and one of our elemental guilds apparently had a bit of fun with the avatar of mist (warp/summon every 6 seconds!), so hopefully the new code will smooth things out.

And the other was this.
Most mobs these days summon every 6 seconds, thats just enough time to run for a couple secs turn slightly and cast lifetap then get sumoned and run and turn and lifetap and get summoned and run and turn and lifetap and get summoned....and so on and so forth.


Pre 2007 : 2005 on Al'Kabor server so in essence 2002. The earliest time I can find anything about summoning mobs.

http://www.guildportal.com/Guild.aspx?GuildID=9508&ForumID=59492&TabID=77837&TopicID=562582&Page=2

The other half of this is that summon has a 12 second refresh timer associated with it. So, lets say you have a summoning mob that is now below 97% and you as the puller or split tank need to get it into a corner or whatever. Make sure you have a solid lock on the mobs agro (because as stated, mobs summon whoever is tops on its hatelist) and begin backing away until the mob summons you. From the time you arrive in the mob's lap and for 12 seconds after that, the mob will now chase you. So take off for wherever you need the mob to be.

2002
http://eqbeastiary.allakhazam.com/search.html?id=7401
I believe mobs here summon every 12 seconds... it's a very tough zone and if you want to get past the entrance you should have two well rounded groups


2003
http://www.thesafehouse.org/forums//archive/index.php?t-3745.html
Fighting Arch Lich
Rampage acts like a proc, so there's less healing needed for MT and RT. It takes like 12 seconds to recycle summon*, he'll get in 3-4 rounds as tank backs off if that if AL misses and doesnt stun the MT.

"Aggro kitting" AL with a SK was the reason why they nerfed distance aggro (ask any SK about that and they'll tell you how their pure aggro spells are @#%$ up) and reduced the summoning cycle on him in the first place.
"Kitting" him is not more effective than actually tanking him, as you can't predict the dps output.

2004
http://www.therunes.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2567

There seems to be - I think it is about 12 seconds. There is also a max distance, beyond which a mob won't summon you, but may still have aggro and chase you.
less then 12 seconds im sure of it, and im not sure there is a max range =)
Most PoP mobs begin summoning at 98 pct health. While 12 sec or so is the standard for summons "recast" - I could swear some can do it faster.

2004
http://eqbeastiary.allakhazam.com/search.html?id=15994
immediately adjacent to zlandicar's lair there are two spawns right next to each other, both mobs that spawn there tend to be hoarders. occasionally one will be "a chetari packrat" or the whelp kidnapper. i have seen the hoarders levels as high up as 62. the necromancer hoarders do not summon. the warrior ones do summon. however, they only summon every 12 seconds so its very possible to kite them anyways.


2006
http://www.thesteelwarrior.org/forums/showthread.php?t=14324&page=4

And summoning mobs don't summon if you run fast enough to get out of their summoning range.
And most mobs summon every 12 seconds but there are exceptions naturally.
And if mob goes back over about 97 percent it won't summon untill its under about 97 percent or so again.



I found more proof that it was 12 seconds, than 6 seconds. Researching this stuff is a pain in the ass and takes too damn long to find. I don't fault any devs for finding a few things and saying that's how it was. I'm willing to keep finding information, but the evidence so far out weighs any reasoning for it to stay at 6 seconds as compared to 12 seconds my research has shown.

I'm over the Uth's rage posts in bugs sections. If you don't like the guy, don't read his posts. He is 100% correct that we need proof to change things. You can't simply say " I remember such and such" or " This was how it was" and that's it. It sets a bad precedent towards people submitting bugs without proof, and even Devs changing things in game * Even though there has been a few things, but has been slowly fixed *,

[nilbog]

Here's some infos.

http://www.ttlg.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=5043



The funny thing about Hate is that it just reuses old mob graphics. That's not a diseased rat, boys and girls, that's an UBER diseased rat. Think that ghoul is a wimp? Heh. And that ain't no ordinary mummy...

As you may have noticed from my last post, I've started to have fun with my log file. Now I shall have more fun. Fear the wrath of Aledar.

And now, fear the wrath of mobs that were kinda irked that they were hit with a ball of massive icy death.

[Thu Nov 09 22:46:25 2000] a scorn banshee says 'You will not evade me Aledar'
[Thu Nov 09 23:23:36 2000] an ashenbone drake says 'You will not evade me Aledar'
[Thu Nov 09 23:44:48 2000] an ire ghast says 'You will not evade me Aledar'
[Fri Nov 10 00:00:27 2000] Cleric of Innoruuk says 'You will not evade me Aledar'
[Fri Nov 10 00:07:01 2000] Cleric of Innoruuk says 'You will not evade me Aledar'
[Fri Nov 10 00:20:27 2000] an abhorrent says 'You will not evade me Aledar'
[Fri Nov 10 00:34:04 2000] an ire ghast says 'You will not evade me Aledar'
[Fri Nov 10 00:39:11 2000] a forsaken revenant says 'You will not evade me Aledar'
[Fri Nov 10 00:44:26 2000] a loathling lich says 'You will not evade me Aledar'
[Fri Nov 10 01:13:29 2000] a loathling lich says 'You will not evade me Aledar'
[Fri Nov 10 01:13:51 2000] a loathling lich says 'You will not evade me Aledar'
[Fri Nov 10 01:21:04 2000] an ire ghast says 'You will not evade me Aledar'
[Fri Nov 10 02:11:05 2000] a forsaken revenant says 'You will not evade me Aledar'
[Fri Nov 10 02:34:43 2000] a forsaken revenant says 'You will not evade me Aledar'
[Fri Nov 10 02:34:54 2000] a forsaken revenant says 'You will not evade me Aledar'
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:28 2000] a forsaken revenant says 'You will not evade me Aledar'
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:39 2000] a forsaken revenant says 'You will not evade me Aledar'
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:50 2000] a forsaken revenant says 'You will not evade me Aledar'
[Fri Nov 10 02:44:38 2000] a revultant rat says 'You will not evade me Aledar'

Ah, notice that forsaken revenant that summoned me a lot? That was unpleasant. He suddenly decided that he didn't like me. Really didn't like me. So he kept hitting me. The two clerics in my group were chain casting heals, and my HP still never went above 40%, and was under 20% most of the time. I had, with buffs at the time, about 1400 HP. This thing did 4543 damage to me in a minute from melee alone - it also hit me with about six spells, one of which I resisted. Now, you'd figure, since I only cast one Ice Comet (hits for 1110, but only hit for 56 due to a major resist), with the knowledge that a 100 heal is the same taunt as a 100 hp nuke (even moreso, as Wizard spells are inherently less of a taunt), that the mob would turn away and start beating on the clerics, as they've healed me for a couple thousand HP each. Or maybe one of the 20 tanks bashing it. But no. He was really upset. Just plain miserable. I mean, something must have really made him unhappy. Maybe his internet connection was out, or someone tracked mud through the ornate gothic structures in Hate. I dunno. Use this as an example of what plane mobs are like. Throw in the fact that they have about 15k HP each and are rather magic resistant. Then consider the fact that people consider Hate to be the easiest of the three planes by far. Oh, keep in mind that I had just about every chat filter option (outside of ooc and shout) off, as when you have 20 tanks hitting one mob and 10 casters nuking, you get some serious lag from the major spam. The "injured by falling" part is when the thing cast an AE Gravity Flux. Having 40 people flung chaotically into the air can cause a major system slowdown, even on my machine.

[Fri Nov 10 02:34:43 2000] a forsaken revenant was hit by non-melee for 56 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:34:43 2000] a forsaken revenant's skin is rent by massive shards of deadly ice.
[Fri Nov 10 02:34:43 2000] a forsaken revenant says 'You will not evade me Aledar'
[Fri Nov 10 02:34:43 2000] You have been summoned!
[Fri Nov 10 02:34:43 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 103 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:34:43 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 103 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:34:45 2000] Shalyrra tells the group, 'Now casting REMEDY on Nenelar'
[Fri Nov 10 02:34:45 2000] Shalyrra begins to cast a spell.
[Fri Nov 10 02:34:47 2000] Murlyn is no longer berserk.
[Fri Nov 10 02:34:48 2000] Nenelar's wounds fade away.
[Fri Nov 10 02:34:49 2000] Nenelar begins to cast a spell.
[Fri Nov 10 02:34:50 2000] Dini's spell fizzles!
[Fri Nov 10 02:34:51 2000] Shalyrra tells the group, 'Now casting REMEDY on Aledar'
[Fri Nov 10 02:34:52 2000] Shalyrra begins to cast a spell.
[Fri Nov 10 02:34:52 2000] Dini begins to cast a spell.
[Fri Nov 10 02:34:53 2000] Missie begins to cast a spell.
[Fri Nov 10 02:34:53 2000] a forsaken revenant's skin ignites and chars.
[Fri Nov 10 02:34:54 2000] a forsaken revenant says 'You will not evade me Aledar'
[Fri Nov 10 02:34:54 2000] You have been summoned!
[Fri Nov 10 02:34:54 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 66 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:34:54 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 134 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:34:55 2000] Your wounds fade.
[Fri Nov 10 02:34:55 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 71 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:34:55 2000] Your wounds fade.
[Fri Nov 10 02:34:55 2000] Daylife says, 'can i get clarity pls'
[Fri Nov 10 02:34:56 2000] Onei was injured by falling.
[Fri Nov 10 02:34:56 2000] Lyshatin was injured by falling.
[Fri Nov 10 02:34:56 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 61 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:34:56 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 139 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:34:56 2000] a forsaken revenant says 'You will not evade me Airal'
[Fri Nov 10 02:34:58 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 97 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:34:58 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 134 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:34:59 2000] Nenelar begins to cast a spell.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:00 2000] Hydial beams a smile at a forsaken revenant.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:00 2000] Hydial says, 'Ahhh, I feel much better now...'
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:02 2000] Hygiliak shouts, 'I can see my house from here!'
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:02 2000] Dini begins to cast a spell.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:02 2000] Shalyrra tells the group, 'Now casting REMEDY on Aledar'
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:02 2000] Shalyrra begins to cast a spell.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:03 2000] You are stunned!
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:04 2000] You are unstunned.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:04 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 139 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:04 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 139 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:05 2000] Your wounds fade.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:05 2000] Your wounds fade.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:06 2000] a forsaken revenant tries to hit YOU, but misses!
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:06 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 139 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:09 2000] You resist the Sanity Warp spell!!
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:10 2000] Shalyrra tells the group, 'Now casting REMEDY on Missie'
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:11 2000] Dini begins to cast a spell.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:11 2000] Shalyrra begins to cast a spell.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:13 2000] Missie's wounds fade away.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:14 2000] Missie's wounds fade away.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:15 2000] You are stunned!
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:16 2000] You are unstunned.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:18 2000] Prowlerr shouts, 'Target Locked: | an ire ghast | Assist me Now !!!'
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:20 2000] Laylomo says out of character, 'MT female Rev'
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:20 2000] Dini begins to cast a spell.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:20 2000] You tell your party, 'shoo!'
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:23 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 66 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:23 2000] Your wounds fade.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:24 2000] Shalyrra tells the group, 'Now casting REMEDY on Aledar'
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:24 2000] Shalyrra begins to cast a spell.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:24 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 139 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:24 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 113 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:25 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 139 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:26 2000] Gretchin tells the group, 'have to use bathroom brb'
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:26 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 129 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:27 2000] Your wounds fade.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:28 2000] a forsaken revenant tries to hit YOU, but YOU dodge!
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:28 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 118 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:28 2000] a forsaken revenant says 'You will not evade me Aledar'
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:28 2000] You have been summoned!
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:29 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 129 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:29 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 113 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:30 2000] a forsaken revenant tries to hit YOU, but misses!
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:30 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 118 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:31 2000] a forsaken revenant tries to hit YOU, but misses!
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:31 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 139 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:32 2000] Shalyrra tells the group, 'Now casting REMEDY on Aledar'
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:32 2000] Shalyrra begins to cast a spell.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:33 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 139 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:33 2000] a forsaken revenant tries to hit YOU, but misses!
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:34 2000] a forsaken revenant tries to hit YOU, but misses!
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:34 2000] You are stunned!
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:34 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 139 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:35 2000] Your wounds fade.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:35 2000] Dini begins to cast a spell.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:35 2000] a forsaken revenant tries to hit YOU, but misses!
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:35 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 139 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:37 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 108 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:37 2000] You are unstunned.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:38 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 97 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:38 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 139 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:38 2000] Your wounds fade.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:38 2000] Nenelar tells the group, 'uh oh....it's gonna come true'
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:39 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 139 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:39 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 139 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:39 2000] a forsaken revenant says 'You will not evade me Aledar'
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:39 2000] You have been summoned!
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:40 2000] Shalyrra tells the group, 'OOM'
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:40 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 139 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:40 2000] a forsaken revenant tries to hit YOU, but misses!
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:42 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 139 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:42 2000] a forsaken revenant tries to hit YOU, but misses!
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:43 2000] a forsaken revenant tries to hit YOU, but misses!
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:43 2000] a forsaken revenant tries to hit YOU, but misses!
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:44 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 51 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:44 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 139 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:45 2000] Missie begins to cast a spell.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:46 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 77 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:46 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 139 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:47 2000] Daylife says, 'can i get clarity pls'
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:47 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 97 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:47 2000] a forsaken revenant tries to hit YOU, but misses!
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:47 2000] Dini's spell fizzles!
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:48 2000] Shalyrra tells the group, 'DINI .. heal him'
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:48 2000] a forsaken revenant tries to hit YOU, but misses!
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:48 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 139 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:50 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 56 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:50 2000] a forsaken revenant tries to hit YOU, but YOU dodge!
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:50 2000] a forsaken revenant says 'You will not evade me Aledar'
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:50 2000] You have been summoned!

[Rais]

Looks like 11-12 seconds in that log. Or am I reading wrong?heh

[Szeth]

That is indeed what it looks like in dat dere log

[Daldaen]

This would be a great fix. Due to the lack of a spell haste focus I can't get out of range of a rooted mob and gate before I get resummonded. Which is very lame as it's something I should be able to do.

[Uthgaard]

Now that's the kind of evidence that I'm talking about. Nice job Bisch.

[DoucLangur]

nilbogs post indeed supports the longer summon interval.

From what I was able to discern out of my own logs, the summon interval "discrepancy" that sometimes it's called as 10, 11 or 12 seconds can be explained by a combination of:
- timing of summon (I don't know EQEmu code, or EQlive, obviously - but I am pretty sure the availability of each mob's abilities is checked by a timer function that runs on intervals - so a 10 second refresh is actually the refresh plus a minor extra time until the timer function next checks that ability's availability - which can be anywhere between 0 and x seconds.)
- server/zone/client lag (may cause slight delays until the event gets logged on the client)
- rounding issues

A possible scenario is that client lag causes a delay in logging a 2nd summon, while on the 1st summon it was on-time - resulting in log entries with 12 seconds delay, while in another case (I found one in my logs) the timer function on the server was spot-on, and the client was reacting/logging fast, and the log entries are 10 seconds apart. That would indicate the actual summon interval was 10 seconds, while in almost all cases, the next summon was not processed until 1 second later.

[kanras]

Set to 11s, pending update.

[DoucLangur]

Set to 11s, pending update.

[Sat Mar 24 02:19:40 2012] You begin casting Paralyzing Earth.
[Sat Mar 24 02:19:43 2012] Imperial Crypt Guardian's feet adhere to the ground.
[Sat Mar 24 02:19:43 2012] You have been summoned!
[Sat Mar 24 02:19:43 2012] Imperial Crypt Guardian says 'You will not evade me Slozem!'
[Sat Mar 24 02:19:49 2012] You have been summoned!
[Sat Mar 24 02:19:49 2012] Imperial Crypt Guardian says 'You will not evade me Slozem!'
[Sat Mar 24 02:19:55 2012] You have been summoned!
[Sat Mar 24 02:19:55 2012] Imperial Crypt Guardian says 'You will not evade me Slozem!'
[Sat Mar 24 02:20:01 2012] You have been summoned!
[Sat Mar 24 02:20:01 2012] Imperial Crypt Guardian says 'You will not evade me Slozem!'
[Sat Mar 24 02:20:08 2012] You have been summoned!
[Sat Mar 24 02:20:08 2012] Imperial Crypt Guardian says 'You will not evade me Slozem!'
[Sat Mar 24 02:20:14 2012] You have been summoned!
[Sat Mar 24 02:20:14 2012] Imperial Crypt Guardian says 'You will not evade me Slozem!'

[Sat Mar 24 02:20:28 2012] You have been summoned!
[Sat Mar 24 02:20:28 2012] Imperial Crypt Guardian says 'You will not evade me Slozem!'
[Sat Mar 24 02:20:34 2012] You have been summoned!
[Sat Mar 24 02:20:34 2012] Imperial Crypt Guardian says 'You will not evade me Slozem!'
[Sat Mar 24 02:20:40 2012] You have been summoned!
[Sat Mar 24 02:20:40 2012] Imperial Crypt Guardian says 'You will not evade me Slozem!'

I hope that's a mistake, and it was patched back accidentally. Anyways, as you can see, the summon interval of at least the ICGs in sebilis crypt is back to 6 seconds, which I have not seen mentioned in any patch message and which was not the case after the above mentioned patch.

Could this please be rectified?

Thank you!

Slozem