Can bards charm kite?

[Xarthos]

I'm currently waiting for the server to come up and this is the main question I have that will pretty much make my choice if I go bard or not. I enjoyed being able to solo for a time in live so I am curious and doing a search I didn't actually find the answer. This is one of the things that I remember as classic eq.

Thanks in advance.

[Humerox]

Why, yes. Yes, they can. Jete has a good video up about it somewhere...main thing is the pet taking XP...but Jete explains that issue too...

Edit: Found the thread.

http://project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=4980

[Xarthos]

Awesome thanks. In that case it looks like I am going bard.

[Humerox]

Welcome. Be aware that the mobs move differently here than on live...will make things a little more difficult at lower levels, but learning radius and things aren't that bad.

I tried playing a bard but I just don't twist well enough. :(

[guineapig]

Actually some of his tequniques are no longer valid.

One example includes using the pet go away command (has been removed for charmed pets).

Also he blatantly mentions using the Y axis in a way that mobs are unable to hit him which is a bannable exploit as posted in the rules of the server.

Finally, J-boots no longer drop in Najena so you'll have to find a druid to SoW you untill you're high enough level to do the quest (you can't MQ it).

[Humerox]

Valid points Chic.

He does say in the vid that he was clicking the "pet go away" command out of habit, lol.
SoW pots are an option too...but expensive for a new player.

[guineapig]

I'm also a little fuzzy on how this mob pausing trick works for bards.

When a chanter attempts to charm a mob when he/she already has a pet you get the message that you can't charm it but you also aggro the mob you were attempting to charm. I've never heard of the mob just sitting there doing nothing. Sounds to me like a emu bug, not a game feature.

[Jify]

Although it can be very efficient, I found it much easier to just start dot kiting mobs.

Magic, Fire, Frost chant + snare. Walk in a circle playing those for 50 seconds. Rinse and repeat with other blue mobs.

But to be honest, I always felt that Jete was a very experienced charmer. I don`t think I could touch his ability when it comes down to charm tactics. :)

[Jete]

Hey Guinea, I asked Rogean about every technique used in that video, and if you trace back a few patches you will see he patched up some of the "exploits" that were on the server for charm ( that I pointed out to him.) The Y-Axis thing isn't in the server rules, the mobs still can hit you, they just have a harder time and it's easier for the bard to move around.

Anyways, as response to the thread, charm kiting does work, but they messed it up a little with the whole "you cant get xp unless you do 1 dmg" thing. To remedy this you can either group with someone ( afk mages could do this too.. surprised they don't.. ) or just get the mob to a low percent and dot / DD it down. I am waiting for Kunark to release to make an AoE kite video, but it is possible in Rathe Mtns. currently, but its overly complicated and I don't think a lot of people would understand it. The reason I bring this up is I was able to rush from 35-50 AoE kiting I think in 3 days or so. As stated before, getting to lvl 27 is probably your hardest challenge as a bard, the rest is pretty easy. If you do choose to charm kite, make a few cleric friends and prepare to spend tons on rezzes.

Welcome to the server and if you do make a bard, great! Send me a tell in game or a message on the forums if you ever need anything!

[guineapig]

Thanks for the clarification Jete.

Could you tell me a little bit about the double charming tequnique where you cast a charm that doesn't land if you already have a pet?
I'm not sure how that works for bards.

[guineapig]

^^^
BUMP!

Can anyone fill me in on how this is supposed to work?

[Jify]

Haven't tested it, but awhile back it would go like this.

1) Charm a pet.
2) Attempt to charm second pet, pet gets mem-blurred, causing it to lose agro on you.
3) If you do this while it is near your pet, it will attack your pet.
4) Rinse, repeat. For multiple mobs. (generally no more than 4-5)

By doing this you get closer, but by no means close, to what bard swarm kiting is suppose to be. This method is probably about x2-x3 as efficient as regular solo charm kiting on P99, and about only 1% as efficient as classic bard swarm kiting.

Hope that helps Chic!

[guineapig]

Danke!

Yes, makes more sense now. It was the memblur factor that I wasn't taking into account.

[mitic]

charmkite works, somehow and harder than on live

charmkited hillgiants at lvl 27 alraedy (15minutes per kill). you will have to use your snare song, else it wont work that good.

might be easier with the next upgrade...still have to lvl for it

[Jify]

charmkite works, somehow and harder than on live

Kind of like live, but no where close.

On live you could pull 20 mobs, charm one, send it to attack the other 19. Those 19 would get your pet down to 5-10% HP in a few seconds. You'd then invis, cast a single DOT, get exp, and move on to the next mob.

That does not happen here, agro is different. :(

[Weekapaug]

I am waiting for Kunark to release to make an AoE kite video, but it is possible in Rathe Mtns. currently, but its overly complicated and I don't think a lot of people would understand it.

I'm just starting here but have pretty much settled on playing a bard, at least to start while my GF gets her feet wet with a druid....

AoE kiting got nerfed on live ages ago....Is it back on this server?

If so, why wait till Rathe Mtns? I'm pretty sure I was aoe kiting with my live bard around level 6 or 7. Is it different here? Or are we talking about the same thing? lol I forget the levels of the low level lizzies and whatnot out there...I always think "giants" in RM.

[Weekapaug]

Kind of like live, but no where close.

On live you could pull 20 mobs, charm one, send it to attack the other 19. Those 19 would get your pet down to 5-10% HP in a few seconds. You'd then invis, cast a single DOT, get exp, and move on to the next mob.

That does not happen here, agro is different. :(

What do they do that's different?

[Barkingturtle]

What do they do that's different?

Only thing I can imagine making swarm-kiting unviable would be having the mobs count pet damage as yours, so when that first pet dies you have aggro instead of the recently deceased pet clearing the list.

[Jify]

Only thing I can imagine making swarm-kiting unviable would be having the mobs count pet damage as yours, so when that first pet dies you have aggro instead of the recently deceased pet clearing the list.

Almost, but very Correct.

Sending a pet against an unagro'd mob will cause social agro from those around it. Lets use the Spectres as an example.

Charm Spectre A, you can now run Spectre A "through" spectre B,C,D.
Spectre B,C,D will agro Spectre A (if they do not agro on you first)
Your pet is now fighting 3 targets, and losing HP quickly.
Charm breaks, you reapply charm to your pet.
Send Spectre A (pet) against Spectre B.
**THIS IS WHERE THINGS ARE DIFFERENT**
Spectre B will ONLY stop and attack Spectre A if it is hit by Spectre A.
Spectre C & D will continue to chase the bard, and will not socially agro Spectre A.
On live, if you did not personally do any damage or spells to any of the mobs, they would more or less instantly reagro your pet social, because they essentially have the very minimum agro on you.


Does that help?

Note: This is the same reason you can not train undead or giants on people on this server. Sure, training is bad, and as it stands it's 100% impossible to train unless you pull mobs past someone and then Zone, die or FD. Perhaps if there was a "proximity" agro check that would add +1 agro when a NPC is run very close to a PC. That would make training possible & bard charm kiting as well. I suck at code, but maybe something along the lines (logically) of:

if NPC_Melee_Radius contains PC;
if NPC=KOS;
if NPC_Train_Agro=False
NPC_Agro towards PC=(PC_Hate+1);
NPC_Train_Agro=(True for 15 seconds)
else;
else;
else;

It's obviously not this simple. But would something along those lines add a very very small amount of hate and allow for trains, training, and bard swarm kiting. The 15seconds repeating would allow it to happen continuously for something like charm kiting, but +1 hate every 15 seconds would have basically no effect on grouping, etc.

:D

[Jify]

I'm just starting here but have pretty much settled on playing a bard, at least to start while my GF gets her feet wet with a druid....

AoE kiting got nerfed on live ages ago....Is it back on this server?

If so, why wait till Rathe Mtns? I'm pretty sure I was aoe kiting with my live bard around level 6 or 7. Is it different here? Or are we talking about the same thing? lol I forget the levels of the low level lizzies and whatnot out there...I always think "giants" in RM.

AoE kiting is on this server. However, hit boxes are larger and NPC movement speed is quicker. It is very hard, almost impossible (unless you're a bard god like Jete) to AoE kite at the moment.

[Weekapaug]

AoE kiting is on this server. However, hit boxes are larger and NPC movement speed is quicker. It is very hard, almost impossible (unless you're a bard god like Jete) to AoE kite at the moment.

Well, the "drive by" was always more fun than the autocircle anyway. :P

Ever eat it 40 mins into a kite just as mobs are starting to die because you sneezed? lol

Looking forward to checking it out. :)