Was xp loss in pvp a good idea?

[oldfish]

I dont see alot of threads about this, so im guessing people are content with it.

But making this poll, im curious.

I stopped leveling for 4 hours to pvp and the loss i got in pve was bad. Now try to imagine me stopping for a week to pvp (Cuz EQpvp is why i rolled on this server, surprise, surprise).
Ive tried to imagine it and the resulting pve grind made me come to this next conclusion:

Now imagine me quitting a server with 200ish mostly blubies who dont give a fuck about pvping and are doing big things in pve.

[Slave]

Voted yes. Unfortunately, the implementation was not effective, and in practice, there really is no significant XP loss in PvP. That is a big problem when the consensus of both staff and players was for XP loss.

[oldfish]

Voted yes. Unfortunately, the implementation was not effective, and in practice, there really is no significant XP loss in PvP. That is a big problem when the consensus of both staff and players was for XP loss.

Perfect example of why im outta here, these people never played on Rallos and i think the devs didnt either, this is nothing like the pvp fest that Rallos was. People run from pvp because the death penalty is too harsh. Its just a way for blubie poopsockers to control PVE. Boring.

[Snukie]

Yes, you loose you pay play smart and if you loose dont whine and honor Loot n Scoot

[Greenkrak]

when you talking about these 'people' its obvious u talkin bout urself


losing a blue bub from pvp death gunna make u cry then u shuld gtfo

PEACE

[Slave]

Perfect example of why im outta here, these people never played on Rallos and i think the devs didnt either, this is nothing like the pvp fest that Rallos was. People run from pvp because the death penalty is too harsh.

There is not as much PvP going on because there is no purpose to it. Insignificant XP loss. Bound 1 zone away. Respawning with mana. Worthless and usually miniscule coin loot. There is no reward, and no risk. It's like World of Warcraft right now, and seriously needs to be looked at. This is not the EverQuest PvP that we remember.

[oldfish]

There is not as much PvP going on because there is no purpose to it. Insignificant XP loss. Bound 1 zone away. Respawning with mana. Worthless and usually miniscule coin loot. There is no reward, and no risk. It's like World of Warcraft right now, and seriously needs to be looked at. This is not the EverQuest PvP that we remember.

LOL EQ pvp you remember?

You pvpd on Rallos because you had fun. The purpose was to have fun. Im not having fun because people are not pvping because of xp loss. Get it?

Face it, its a 12 year old game, it will never be anything else than it was. The only thing i was wishing for was a box where i could pvp with other folks for fun like i did 9 years ago. Im not getting that.

[Softcore PK]

I think Nilbog played on Rallos.

[Authority]

LOL EQ pvp you remember?

You pvpd on Rallos because you had fun. The purpose was to have fun. Im not having fun because people are not pvping because of xp loss. Get it?

Face it, its a 12 year old game, it will never be anything else than it was. The only thing i was wishing for was a box where i could pvp with other folks for fun like i did 9 years ago. Im not getting that.

Xp loss from pvp is literally a solo db mob's worth of xp. It's nothing.

[gloinz]

Xp loss from pvp is literally a solo db mob's worth of xp. It's nothing.

[oldfish]

Xp loss from pvp is literally a solo db mob's worth of xp. It's nothing.

Its nothing for people who dont actually try or want to pvp all day

If you try that, and dont care about the extra pve grind, then you need to go outside more.

[Doors]

XP loss in pvp will matter a lot more 50+ in Kunark.

[Slave]

Its nothing for people who dont actually try or want to pvp all day

If you try that, and dont care about the extra pve grind, then you need to go outside more.

"If I ever die in PvP, the fact that I have to kill 1 blue mob = TOO GRINDY!!"

If you think that is bad, you're going to be really surprised how much exp it takes to make level 6.

[Muaar]

WHAT THE FUCK YOU PEIC EOF SHIT I LOST HALF MY LEVEL MOTHER FUCKER

[Snukie]

There is not as much PvP going on because there is no purpose to it. Insignificant XP loss. Bound 1 zone away. Respawning with mana. Worthless and usually miniscule coin loot. There is no reward, and no risk. It's like World of Warcraft right now, and seriously needs to be looked at. This is not the EverQuest PvP that we remember.


You sir have never encounterd EQ PvP before then and have yet to fight your way deep into a dungeon with your group to camp a spot or an item and then see another group sneaking up on you and attack. Try it, when you loose there and you need to make the corpse run you better agree to LnS if not be assured the other group will make your CR a very very bad expierence.

[Slave]

You sir have never encounterd EQ PvP before then and have yet to fight your way deep into a dungeon with your group to camp a spot or an item and then see another group sneaking up on you and attack. Try it, when you loose there and you need to make the corpse run you better agree to LnS if not be assured the other group will make your CR a very very bad expierence.

I'm not saying it's Blue, man. Nobody sane would still be over there with R99 up. Just listing the things that are holding the server back. A lot.

[Daefuin]

I've been posting on the bug report forum about exp loss being insignificant and respawning with mana, but they don't seem to be receiving much attention. Meanwhile you have morons like this oldfish character complaining that losing exp is too harsh right now when you only lose 1 notch of a blue. What a shiteater.

[Lovely]

It should be same as a PVE death. Then we talking!

[Mardur]

It should be same as a PVE death. Then we talking!

[Neach]

Item loot would make pvp worth it. Jump someone grinding and loot a manastone or w/e! XP loss is trivial, coin loot is trivial and yes even in beta people were running away and there was no real fun.

No item loot..., It would of made for a good capture the flag but instead capture the manastone or other items, but w/e.

everyone has their own idea of fun. Take some advice, just don't play on it instead of raising a stink. That's what others did.

[Kastro]

It's working as intended. When pvp is about seb or fear 1 blue bub unrezable is about right. Full exp is dumbshit and will lead to griefing and if it is rezable will give an advantage to those on top.

[Slave]

It's working as intended. When pvp is about seb or fear 1 blue bub unrezable is about right.

These two statements are mutually exclusive. The exp loss is currently less than half of this.


Full exp loss is awesome and will lead to PvP and it is only rezable within a 7 minute period.

Fixed.

[Potus]

Exp loss just means more grinding. It's a bad idea and discourages pvp.

[gloinz]

Exp loss just means more grinding. It's a bad idea and discourages pvp.

discourages bind rushing you'd have to die like 10 times for it to be noticeable that you lost any xp

[oldfish]

discourages bind rushing you'd have to die like 10 times for it to be noticeable that you lost any xp

its about a blue bar each death

[Potus]

discourages bind rushing you'd have to die like 10 times for it to be noticeable that you lost any xp

If the exp loss is negligible then it is not a deterrent to bind rushing. Bind rushing in general is overblown; as the server matures it becomes obvious who is an infamous bind rusher, they're perpetually corpse camped. As people become better geared, naked casters become laughable in pvp.

No resist/hp gear? How ever will I deal with this person!

[Zigfreed]

I like it and as has been said the xp loss from pvp is equal to about 1.5 blue mobs of xp.

[Morninx]

NOT CLASSIC

Haven't I heard that before???

[oldfish]

NOT CLASSIC

Haven't I heard that before???

It doesnt really matter to me if its classic or not, what matters to me is that the majority of players on this server seem to not want nor enjoy long drawn out fights for spots which is classic Rallos and fun (to me).

This reply was mostly to ask you if you were morning wood from Rallos? First time i lol'd at a player name evading filter.

[mostbitter]

exp loss is stupid. my friends and I have already essentially quit playing because of the exp grind being unreasonable for people who work a 9-5 because as we had hit 5 people where hitting 30. I can't imagine making the grind that much slower would have enticed us to stay.

[oldfish]

exp loss is stupid. my friends and I have already essentially quit playing because of the exp grind being unreasonable for people who work a 9-5 because as we had hit 5 people where hitting 30. I can't imagine making the grind that much slower would have enticed us to stay.

This is part of what is making me quit also. That the top plateau of population was reached when we were hitting 350 at peak.

Nobody but the most rare of masochist will deal with the pve grind PLUS losing exp vs twinks against which he has barely any chance to win over. Thats what any new blood to the server will have to deal soon, if not now.

So not only is the lack of pvp is making it suck for me, its knowing that unless the ruleset changes, this is the best that its going to get.

I doubt it will change, so im quitting while im ahead and didnt invest alot of time in a server im not going to enjoy in the short and long run.

Why bother racing to 50 when i know most people dont enjoy pvp (whatever the fuck they say) and they will be the core pop staying for the long run and can be expected to flee at the first death on my alt?

[Silikten]

blue

[gloinz]

This is part of what is making me quit also. That the top plateau of population was reached when we were hitting 350 at peak.

Nobody but the most rare of masochist will deal with the pve grind PLUS losing exp vs twinks against which he has barely any chance to win over. Thats what any new blood to the server will have to deal soon, if not now.

So not only is the lack of pvp is making it suck for me, its knowing that unless the ruleset changes, this is the best that its going to get.

I doubt it will change, so im quitting while im ahead and didnt invest alot of time in a server im not going to enjoy in the short and long run.

Why bother racing to 50 when i know most people dont enjoy pvp (whatever the fuck they say) and they will be the core pop staying for the long run and can be expected to flee at the first death on my alt?

tbo a twink hybrid (as we are seeing now) is still 1000x easier than a level 4 mage, if ya couldnt take the lvl 4 mages at beginning then you sure as fuck cant take the twink hybrids

[Aesop]

hey no worries some of us will be making the anti-twinks.

[Potus]

The exp gain rate on this server is pretty bad. Of all the things to be "classic" I don't understand why the horrible grind was left in.

[georgie]

yes because there is a lot of qq. if you cant take the grind then don't play.

[Potus]

yes because there is a lot of qq. if you cant take the grind then don't play.

Server pop right now is 246, on a Saturday night, in late December, when a lot of people are on break from school.

Sucks your server is a graveyard, maybe you should get rid of terrible bluebie grind that no real pvper wants.

[gnomishfirework]

this servers are legit, potus. you wont see increased exp like on other emus.

[Softcore PK]

Oldfish, aren't you in Angry Wolves? Bindrushing may be fun for you, but your guild does not condone that sort of griefing :/

[Potus]

this servers are legit, potus. you wont see increased exp like on other emus.

That's fine, there's always going to be some people that want to play the original grindfest of EQ, but it doesn't really make sense to make a pvp server and have not only the grinding, but also race+class exp penalties and exp loss on pvp deaths.

It's just bizarre, it's a combination of classic and new things that create perhaps the most bluebie of pvp servers ever -- one that requires an incredible amount of pve just to do anything.That really turns off a lot of people as the server population has shown.

[Lazortag]

That's fine, there's always going to be some people that want to play the original grindfest of EQ, but it doesn't really make sense to make a pvp server and have not only the grinding, but also race+class exp penalties and exp loss on pvp deaths.

It's just bizarre, it's a combination of classic and new things that create perhaps the most bluebie of pvp servers ever -- one that requires an incredible amount of pve just to do anything.That really turns off a lot of people as the server population has shown.

But you're wrong though. Slow exp actually contributes to a higher population, because it means more possibilities for people to group (because people stay in their level range for longer), and so the non-solo classes don't quit. Also the people that do play stay logged in longer than on other pvp servers since there's more they have to do. When you can get to level 50 in a week, you have less reason to log in.

Just look at every past pvp server on eqemulator - they've all been ghost towns. Part of the reason is that they were horribly coded, but I'm sure the fast exp contributed to their failure.

[mitic]

if u can't take the 'grindfest', then eq wasn't made for u first place. go try wow or some random Asian mmo

[Diggles]

mitic is a pro at this because he's rerolled each class twice

[Potus]

But you're wrong though. Slow exp actually contributes to a higher population, because it means more possibilities for people to group (because people stay in their level range for longer), and so the non-solo classes don't quit. Also the people that do play stay logged in longer than on other pvp servers since there's more they have to do. When you can get to level 50 in a week, you have less reason to log in.

Just look at every past pvp server on eqemulator - they've all been ghost towns. Part of the reason is that they were horribly coded, but I'm sure the fast exp contributed to their failure.

That doesn't make any sense at all. Rate of experience gain has nothing to do with people staying in range of each other, since everyone is subjected to the same experience rate.

But you bring up a good point, because this server is abandoned the group-required classes are absolutely screwed, leaving only soloers. It's bad that there's only 4 people in Greater Faydark.

[SearyxTZ]

actually the slow exp rate is a big reason why a good chunk of TZT'ers aren't playing here

it's going to become even more of a problem when the early adopters hit level 50 so new players get to play in ghost town newbie zones for the first 100'ish hours of their everquesting career

also exp loss on pvp death is retarded, unless the goal was to take classic pvp and make it worse. I don't care if I cause it, and I do care when i get hit with it. What, exactly, are we accomplishing there?

[SearyxTZ]

also I realize the importance of not having a cakewalk exp grind to 50, but the early grind here is too absurd


30-50? Fine. Have it be slow as fuck, hell levels and all - at least those levels are interesting and that's where most players will be.

1-30 needs a serious look and I'd like to hear someone tell me with a straight face that it should take about a hundred hours to get through.


exp loss in pvp was a horrible design decision and if you want proof go look at the qeynos area where people will pvp once or twice and then realize it isn't worth it after dying and seeing their exp disappear. 90% of the players don't even bother with pvp because it has a negative impact on the already-brutal exp grind.

I don't get it. I rly don't.

[Potus]

What, exactly, are we accomplishing there?

More PvE. Bluebies rejoice, a pvp server for you!

[xblade724]

I like how everyone says the exp rate is fine, but yet 90% of level 1 to 15+ is from belts , scalps, and mail runs. I think that alone says something about the exp rate enjoyment, but hey..

Personally? I think the lower lvl exp should be bumped up slightly, but I know it's not gonna happen unless everyone randomly agrees which doesn't happen here

[Softcore PK]

actually the slow exp rate is a big reason why a good chunk of TZT'ers aren't playing here

it's going to become even more of a problem when the early adopters hit level 50 so new players get to play in ghost town newbie zones for the first 100'ish hours of their everquesting career

also exp loss on pvp death is retarded, unless the goal was to take classic pvp and make it worse. I don't care if I cause it, and I do care when i get hit with it. What, exactly, are we accomplishing there?

Can't be any worse than VZTZ. I boxed a cleric and warrior to level 20 before I quit playing because everyone but my two characters was max level.

[Potus]

I like how everyone says the exp rate is fine, but yet 90% of level 1 to 15+ is from belts , scalps, and mail runs. I think that alone says something about the exp rate enjoyment, but hey..

Personally? I think the lower lvl exp should be bumped up slightly, but I know it's not gonna happen unless everyone randomly agrees which doesn't happen here

Don't forget Gnoll Fangs. It was awesome to see level 15s killing a ton of green gnolls for that precious fang exp.

[Shaakglith12194]

Server pop right now is 246, on a Saturday night, in late December, when a lot of people are on break from school.

Sucks your server is a graveyard, maybe you should get rid of terrible bluebie grind that no real pvper wants.

School? Were you like 9 years old when you used to play classic eq or are you getting ready to graduate medical school? I, for one, think the exp loss is right on the money. Not enough to be ridiculous, but enough to hurt a little bit.

As for there not being much coin loot, there are plenty of pics in the forums that show otherwise. Seen several 300+ plat loots and even scored a 50+ plat loot myself when I was like level 19. That's HUGE at that level. If I could, I would play all the time, but with RL stuff, I play when I can. The server is going to be around for a while, so take it easy if you don't hit max level in a month. I'm not even close to 50, but having a great time and getting into LOTS of pvp. Saying that people are afraid to pvp is ridiculous. Hell, I can barely exp cuz of all the pvp I get into. I love it.

[oldfish]

Once again, i think the xp rate is fine. Its slow... but its allrite. Why deter pvp though? Like Seary, i just dont get it. I wanted to have fun on this box so bad, but its not happening. Dweed and others layed it all out for the devs to see and they decided to stick with the poopsockers, im convinced that we would have had 500+ for a long time if it hadnt been for xp loss. We explained this many times when the server started and before:



exp loss in pvp was a horrible design decision and if you want proof go look at the qeynos area where people will pvp once or twice and then realize it isn't worth it after dying and seeing their exp disappear. 90% of the players don't even bother with pvp because it has a negative impact on the already-brutal exp grind.

I don't get it. I rly don't.


Stop thinking that its about the exp loss by itself, its about anything that deters pvp by such a large degree.

In one world I see brawls and fights that go on for hours just for the fun of it.
In the other I see people leaving/logging after 2 deaths because the exp loss will cost them too much time.

If you want it to be killing people to get them out of a zone entirely because the risks, then that is absolutely fine and has many of its own merits.

However, some of us here think the idea of no exp loss promoting enemies to return for round 3, 4 and 5+ sounds like way more fun.

But i guess its the pve poopsockers and the lolzovergriefto11 people who won this. See them brag about people logging off, its obvious. Wait till half the server logs off, then proclaim victory? Fun times.

[Softcore PK]

The xp loss is sooo minor. It really only stings if you get killed a bunch of times in a row.. like if you bindrush, or if someone is camping your bindpoint. If the blah grind of EQ isn't bad, why does a tiny tiny amount of xp loss from pvp upset you so much?

[VanEyck]

Pvp server with penalty for pvp is a contradiction.

If bind rushing is the reason then mana = 0 on respawn.

[Lazortag]

I sometimes wonder what would happen if you guys tried to put yourselves in the devs' shoes for a day. Here we have a thread where a lot of people say there should be no exp loss in pvp. Yet here (http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=57567) we have a thread where everyone says that the exp loss in pvp isn't enough. So basically the exp loss is right between where most of the community wants it, a happy middle ground. Who do you expect the devs to agree with exactly? It's easier to just keep things how they are.

[Softcore PK]

Pvp server with penalty for pvp is a contradiction.

If bind rushing is the reason then mana = 0 on respawn.

There's no penalty for partaking in pvp, there's a penalty for dying. As there always has been :P

[oldfish]

I sometimes wonder what would happen if you guys tried to put yourselves in the devs' shoes for a day. Here we have a thread where a lot of people say there should be no exp loss in pvp. Yet here (http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=57567) we have a thread where everyone says that the exp loss in pvp isn't enough. So basically the exp loss is right between where most of the community wants it, a happy middle ground. Who do you expect the devs to agree with exactly? It's easier to just keep things how they are.

Or you make the correct decision, the one that will make the server grow vs the one that the niche of soopergriefers and pve poopsockers want that makes a population stagnate.

Anyway im throwing the towel, dont think it will ever change, time to move on.

The xp loss is sooo minor. It really only stings if you get killed a bunch of times in a row.. like if you bindrush, or if someone is camping your bindpoint. If the blah grind of EQ isn't bad, why does a tiny tiny amount of xp loss from pvp upset you so much?

God softcore... you know, like when youre pvping? This is the problem right there, the devs are listening to these people, who dont like to pvp, and want a purple server so they can fight over whos gonna sit on a camp for 12 hours after 20mins of pvp.

[VanEyck]

There's no penalty for partaking in pvp, there's a penalty for dying. As there always has been :P

Classic RZ, VZ, and TZ had no pvp experience loss. Am I wrong?

[stormlord]

Remove it. Add a pvp points system instead and post it on the website. Show the top 50/100/etc. Do like EQLive did and show all of hte deahts on the server every day. Allow for us to filter by guild/name/zone/god/etc. That will do the server far, far more good than this badly thought exp loss (upon pvp death).

People who kill somebody close to their level (or above) get more points than peolpe who kill those who're lower level than them. People get their score lowered if they do multiple kills of hte same person.

The only function of the pvp points is to be a scoring system. It offers no other rewards than the fame you get from being on the top 50 or top 100 or top 200 lists. No more reward is needed.

I'm willing to bet that in a server-wide vote most would agree with me.

The time/point-loss people get from dying in PvP is more than enough grief. Additionally, EQ is always punching us in the gut when we fail. Now players are cutting our throats in PvP. Lay off on the masochism.

I do not know my programming all that well IN THIS regard, but my guess is that a output text file can be saved (periodically) by the server and a PHP page can read it. Alternatively (this is outside anything i've done), there might be a way to directly communicate the statistics without having to open/save a file (on the game server). This would mean that any saving can be done elsewhere and the game server can just work in memory.

I don't think there're THAT many deaths per minute though that a little bit of saving overhead cannot be afforded. Then ti's just a matter of a php page loading and parsing for output to the browser. MySQL or something similar may be related. But my expertise in this area is very distant and flaky.

[Potus]

The xp loss is sooo minor. It really only stings if you get killed a bunch of times in a row..

Like...in a typical pvp setting? You know large guild battles have lots of deaths right?

[Softcore PK]

God softcore... you know, like when youre pvping? This is the problem right there, the devs are listening to these people, who dont like to pvp, and want a purple server so they can fight over whos gonna sit on a camp for 12 hours after 20mins of pvp.

Well hang on, let's discuss this calmly and not resort to thinly veiled personal attacks. Wolfram brought up a good point: you can't please everyone!

What you're saying is that this xp loss discourages pvp, and I'm sure to some extent you're right. But for a lot of us, pvp was not dying to the same person/people over and over and over again just to be a bother. On live, when I died I lnsed. Dying wasn't something that happened several times a day, even as an elf purist who attacked everyone and everything in sight. And there did seem to be a lot of pvp happening.

My fear is that without this xp loss, pvp will lose a lot of its meaning and laughable griefer guilds like Holocaust will bindrush nonstop when they know they're beat, just to disrupt whatever their betters are doing. PvE is a huge part of this game whether you want it to be or not, and this xp loss seems almost necessary. Didn't VZTZ eventually have to have GM enforced lns because none of the guilds were able to accomplish anything due to bindrushng?

Classic RZ, VZ, and TZ had no pvp experience loss. Am I wrong?

This isn't classic, though. This community does have a lot of the mean players, and not many of the nice ones. On VZ, there were player enforced rules that everyone followed. Here, the community at large could care less about the niceties we all used to abide. In a way we kind of ruined it for ourselves, and now we're being penalized for not making efforts to play nice and respect one another.

You of all people should like the exp loss, it encourages lns and honorable play.

Like...in a typical pvp setting? You know large guild battles have lots of deaths right?

Right, the more players involved the more deaths there will be. But people should understand that once they are dead, they are dead and they should leave the fight. Since people don't understand or agree with this, we are forced into a system where we all have to hurt more for our deaths. And it's a very smart idea, like a sliding scale.

Die once and lns? Small penalty. Die and bindrush a couple times? Bigger penalty. Become well-known as a bindrusher that refuses to lns everytime and are CCed without a second thought by everyone that kills you? Huge penalty.

[stormlord]

Another thing to keep in mind is that PvP MMORPGs have ALWAYS had trouble. They're always struggling. This server is slowly losing people, but I doubt that's because of this experience loss. But on the other hand, I spare no time in saying that SOME people DO leave the server because of the experience loss when you die in pvp.

Look at Eve-Online. If PvP really was IN then it would have millions of active players, not 100-200,000. PvP is a hardcore mechanic. Without severe restrictions on how PvP happens in a game, you will cripple your population. WoW, for example, has quite a few restrictions. One of my friends plays it and has only once or twice took part - and has played for several months. That should tell you that it's not PvP that makes WoW good. Because if it were, I'd be hearing stories from my friend about how he was griefed on his way to the land of milk and honey.

[Lovely]

Went way to fast to 50. -100% exp modifier on the next server please

[Softcore PK]

If they leave because of the pvp death penalty, why would they play EQ in the first place?

I'm sure with all my pve deaths tallied up, I've eaten over 2 levels worth of exp loss. And the pvp deaths have probably resulted in like 20% of one level or less.

[Potus]

This isn't classic, though.

Sweet, get rid of the stupid grinding then. I look forward to 2x current exp rate and a removal of stupid crap like race/class exp penalties which never made sense and were always brought up in community discussions involving Abashi.



Right, the more players involved the more deaths there will be. But people should understand that once they are dead, they are dead and they should leave the fight. Since people don't understand or agree with this, we are forced into a system where we all have to hurt more for our deaths. And it's a very smart idea, like a sliding scale.

Die once and lns? Small penalty. Die and bindrush a couple times? Bigger penalty. Become well-known as a bindrusher that refuses to lns everytime and are CCed without a second thought by everyone that kills you? Huge penalty.

"Sorry guys, I'm dead, can't help us contest Trakanon, don't want to lose hours of exp and delevel to 59!" <---this is seriously what you're advocating on a PVP SERVER.

[VanEyck]

You of all people should like the exp loss, it encourages lns and honorable play.


Thank you for that compliment. I have the same issues with bind rushing that you do. Discouraging bind rushing is a good idea, but I don't see why it has to involve my precious hybrid exp bar. If someone dies in PVP, they should be forced to take a time out to med before they can attack again. This is a better deterrent to bind rushing than exp loss, because in a raid or camp situation exp always takes a back seat to winning control of the content. Time wasted now in a clutch battle is always more significant than time wasted later. Once the upper hand has been achieved it will be easier to hold on to if you are allowed the same recovery time as your opponents are.

Went way to fast to 50. -100% exp modifier on the next server please

Nice. Have anything to add regarding the topic of this thread?

[oldfish]

"Sorry guys, I'm dead, can't help us contest Trakanon, don't want to lose hours of exp and delevel to 59!" <---this is seriously what you're advocating on a PVP SERVER.

Yes, thats exactly what softcore PK and the rest are advocating, the means to poopsock in peace on a pvp server.

Dont have the zerg to poopsock? Stay home.

That reminds me of some server, it starts with P and ends with 99blue.

[Softcore PK]

Thank you for that compliment. I have the same issues with bind rushing that you do. Discouraging bind rushing is a good idea, but I don't see why it has to involve my precious hybrid exp bar. If someone dies in PVP, they should be forced to take a time out to med before they can attack again. This is a better deterrent to bind rushing than exp loss, because in a raid or camp situation exp always takes a back seat to winning control of the content. Time wasted now in a clutch battle is always more significant than time wasted later. Once the upper hand has been achieved it will be easier to hold on to if you are allowed the same recovery time as your opponents are.

I have a lot of respect for you and yours :)

It really is unfair that players such as yourself have to suffer because of the actions of others. But without this xp loss, there would be a lot more bindrushing. This thread, and the other players that are pushing for no exp loss, are proof enough of that. And your solution of making them respawn at bind with no mana would help things, but 5-10 minutes of recovery time between each bindrush is not enough to stop these people from griefing. Even with the xp penalty in place it is a problem, but after 2-3 attempts they all seem to stop.

When you're at a camp with a fast respawn time that needs to be kept clear and timed, it does not take much at all for a player to disrupt a group. Even with the advantages of them being naked and needing to med, they will keep coming back. And with no deterrent to them for doing so, a lot of them WILL keep coming back until they manage a "win" by catching you at a very bad time.

Really it comes down to deciding if you want to put up with slight exp loss, or more wiped groups from more griefers. I feel that the xp loss is preferable, as this approach penalizes the bad guys more than it does the rest of us. Bindrushers will (and do, just ask Holocaust) lose more xp in pvp than people who honor lns. Without the xp loss, the griefers are given an advantage over the honorable players. Since they don't lose anything for dying over and over, they will do it until you lose. And since you're the good guys, you won't do the same to their camps in return.

Or even worse, you do end up going after them with the same tactics they use on you. Then everyone loses.

[oldfish]

When you're at a camp with a fast respawn time that needs to be kept clear and timed, it does not take much at all for a player to disrupt a group. Even with the advantages of them being naked and needing to med, they will keep coming back. And with no deterrent to them for doing so, a lot of them WILL keep coming back until they manage a "win" by catching you at a very bad time.


Some pvp might disrupt his PVE. Certainly that is self-evident why this is bad?

Also check out softcorepk's slick use of words like "bindrushing" and "griefers" to describe pvp and pvpers.

[Slave]

It really is unfair that players such as yourself have to suffer because of the actions of others. But without this xp loss, there would be a lot more bindrushing. This thread, and the other players that are pushing for no exp loss, are proof enough of that. And your solution of making them respawn at bind with no mana would help things, but 5-10 minutes of recovery time between each bindrush is not enough to stop these people from griefing. Even with the xp penalty in place it is a problem, but after 2-3 attempts they all seem to stop.

When you're at a camp with a fast respawn time that needs to be kept clear and timed, it does not take much at all for a player to disrupt a group. Even with the advantages of them being naked and needing to med, they will keep coming back. And with no deterrent to them for doing so, a lot of them WILL keep coming back until they manage a "win" by catching you at a very bad time.

Really it comes down to deciding if you want to put up with slight exp loss, or more wiped groups from more griefers. I feel that the xp loss is preferable, as this approach penalizes the bad guys more than it does the rest of us. Bindrushers will (and do, just ask Holocaust) lose more xp in pvp than people who honor lns. Without the xp loss, the griefers are given an advantage over the honorable players. Since they don't lose anything for dying over and over, they will do it until you lose. And since you're the good guys, you won't do the same to their camps in return.

Or even worse, you do end up going after them with the same tactics they use on you. Then everyone loses.

This is just all true.

Without consequences and rewards, PvP is not fun nor even tenable. If you increase even one side of the equation, it has a significant positive impact on PvP, both in quantity and quality.

We have a weak consequence and basically zero reward system in place here. To remove the few little parts of this "Equation of Fun" that we are clinging to now would instantly tip the fragile balance into oblivion.

[Softcore PK]

Some pvp might disrupt his PVE. Certainly that is self-evident why this is bad?

Also check out softcorepk's slick use of words like "bindrushing" and "griefers" to describe pvp and pvpers.

im blue, babe. no argument there xD

[Aesop]

I wouldn't be opposed to upped exp rates for 1-20 or 30. It wouldn't be fair to the people who already grinded their way to 30 but hey life ain't fair.

[pointyhat]

I think Seary is right on the money. I'd be way more inclined to log in and play if 1-30 (or some similar range) were accelerated xp. The higher stuff can be slower, that's fine. But the entire grind is just to long for someone who has a finite amount of time they can game each week, and several games to split it between. I want to play at a level range where I can actually jump into some fun dungeons and I actually have some skills/spells I can use in PvP.

[Albane]

I think Seary is right on the money. I'd be way more inclined to log in and play if 1-30 (or some similar range) were accelerated xp. The higher stuff can be slower, that's fine. But the entire grind is just to long for someone who has a finite amount of time they can game each week, and several games to split it between. I want to play at a level range where I can actually jump into some fun dungeons and I actually have some skills/spells I can use in PvP.

I have already made it into my 30's, and I would have no problem with them increasing the xp rate from 1-30. Anything to increase the server population and get more people doing the level 30+ content.