Which Class to play on P99

[gargonauts]

Hi all,

My first post here. I am going to make a new toon on the P99 server once it re launches this friday and I was wondering what classes are being overplayed / underplayed. I am debating whether or not i want to play a bard (only class i haven't gotten past 30). Would a bard be painful to level to 50, or are groups readily available on this server?

Any information would be appreciated and if i really like what u say u may get a kiss :p

Thanks,

[JayFiveAlive]

Bards aren't overplayed, that's for sure. You can easily find groups on the server as long as you don't mind occasionally traveling.

Bards are hybrids and get -40% exp, so keep that in mind.

[gargonauts]

Bards are hybrids and get -40% exp

Wow. That's pretty severe. Are any of the Bard races (wood elf, half elf, human) succeptable to xp penalties as well?

[Pikle]

No, bard races have no penalty that I'm aware of. And honestly lvling a bard isn't that bad except from 15-25ish. Once you get the healing song it makes lvling a bit easier for a while. Then when you realize you don't get double attack like all the rest of the melees, then it's get a bit slow unless you constantly get good groups. My tip is to group as much as possible(If you can't find one make one) and one great thing about a bard is they can group/duo with anyone. They will fit into almost any role.

But for the record, bards rock. They are very versatile and are very powerful if played right. The bard nerds out there claim bards are the best class around, which I can't argue with too much any more.

[Budah]

Bards are my "unicorn" I guess you could say. I have always wanted one, and they seem so powerful and awesome! But I am afraid that if I got my hands on one, I would be disappointed - or disappoint myself... I wish you luck!

[Dangergirl]

Server needs tanks

[Budah]

I was just about to make a new thread with a poll on which class players play to serve as a visual representation; but then I got to thinking that we only ever see about 30ish people posting on these forums. That proves to be a problem because there are ~ 600+ players in P1999.

Personally, I have always been one to go the road less traveled. With that being said, I would suggest either:

Enchanter
Ranger
Warrior

Enchanters are few and far between from my experience, rangers are growing but their average level is quite low, and Warriors are hugely outnumbered by Paladins & SK's


On the other hand, if you were more for a versatile kind of person, you might want a class with more utility. For that I would suggest the following:

Necromancer
Paladin
Shadowknight
Bard
Ranger(ish)

Each of these have a multitude of utility abilities such as DPS, Tanking, & Healing (to an extent), as well as CC abilities.

If you are afraid of low populations, and would prefer something that can hold it's own, perhaps a more solo friendly class:

Necromancer
Druid
Shaman
Magician

Pets, &/or Heal/DPS abilities help single these out as solo friendly classes

Finally, if you are the opposite of the above, and would like to be guaranteed a group, then melee is the best bet (currently) but any of the following are vital in a group (In the correct order).

Warrior
Cleric
Druid
Paladin / Shadowknight
Rogue / Wizard

As stated above, the Warrior role is being filled by off-tanks, full tanks are still better. Cleric > Druid as far as heals go if done correctly. Pal & SK can fill many roles, and when a tank isn't available, there are many of these that are. Finally solid DPS can make or break a group; Rogue & Wiz can mean the difference between taking 1hr per lvl instead of 2.


(DISCLAIMER: The above is all opinion, and while readers have the right to disagree, please don't claim that I am "wrong". I have reasons for why I placed each in those categories)

[Sadface]

I am going brigand or swashbuckler

[oldhead]

I was just about to make a new thread with a poll on which class players play to serve as a visual representation; but then I got to thinking that we only ever see about 30ish people posting on these forums. That proves to be a problem because there are ~ 600+ players in P1999.

Personally, I have always been one to go the road less traveled. With that being said, I would suggest either:

Enchanter
Ranger
Warrior
Wizard

Enchanters are few and far between from my experience, rangers are growing but their average level is quite low, and Warriors are hugely outnumbered by Paladins & SK's


On the other hand, if you were more for a versatile kind of person, you might want a class with more utility. For that I would suggest the following:

Necromancer
Paladin
Shadowknight
Bard
Ranger(ish)

Each of these have a multitude of utility abilities such as DPS, Tanking, & Healing (to an extent), as well as CC abilities.

If you are afraid of low populations, and would prefer something that can hold it's own, perhaps a more solo friendly class:

Necromancer
Druid
Shaman
Magician

Pets, &/or Heal/DPS abilities help single these out as solo friendly classes

Finally, if you are the opposite of the above, and would like to be guaranteed a group, then melee is the best bet (currently) but any of the following are vital in a group (In the correct order).

Warrior
Cleric / Enchanter
Druid / Shaman
Paladin / Shadowknight
Rogue / Monk

As stated above, the Warrior role is being filled by off-tanks, full tanks are still better. Cleric > Druid as far as heals go if done correctly. Pal & SK can fill many roles, and when a tank isn't available, there are many of these that are. Finally solid DPS can make or break a group; Rogue & Wiz can mean the difference between taking 1hr per lvl instead of 2.


(DISCLAIMER: The above is all opinion, and while readers have the right to disagree, please don't claim that I am "wrong". I have reasons for why I placed each in those categories)

agree but changed three things.

[Elendae]

the bard is the class that you play until level 20 or so and then give up because it takes too much work.

[Eastwood]

That's what I notice as well Elendae,

Lots of bard twinks running around, they don't last long and then in the mid levels I find almost no bards.

[JaVeDK]

Server needs tanks

I agree. At least at lvl's <50

[Dangergirl]

Again let me get in here and try to clear up a bunch of mush and get to the truth of the matter.

I have played EQ since 99 then WoW, I feel im a very good player, and personable so when I wouldn't get grps with certain classes I began to really think on the matter and here are the results.

If you plan to solo alot Druid is gonna be the safest, necro 2nd safe but faster lvling, mage least safe but fastest lvler. Mages are prob the best dps in the game, necro 2nd. Pets summon up very strong in p99, stronger than on live at least thru the mid 20's.

If you plan to grp alot you have to think of how grps form, specially on P99. A grp is going to start with a tank a healer and cc. Most peeps that plan to be on for many hours in a row and form grps will chose to go with 2 healers and 2 tanks and 1 cc then dps as the 6th slot. If any one of these 5 members comes with a friend, there most likely will not be a 6th slot available. (Every grp I've had from lvl 30-45 has used this 2+2 + cc formula and stuck with it as peeps are replaced.)

I love chanters, and I came to p99 as a chanter, but I couldn't find a grp casue there were soo many bards and chanters at that time 2/20/10. I think alot of peeps that come back for the old glory days go back to chanters because they are the one class that if well played, can make the impossible possible. Bards and chanters are excellent classes, but I feel at the time they are overrepresented on p99.

In my grps on p99 we have had many times where a monk or bard is tanking because we can not find a tank for hours, so that is why I posted earlier that the server needs tanks. Palis, SK and wars are tanks, don't listen to the guy who says SK and Pali are not. If most peeps use the 2+2+cc grp mentality that I described, you can see how a tank will give u a much more solid chance of getting a grp than lets say a ranger (dps).

A word on Palis. At 39 a pali can heal as well as a druid or shammy at 50, thou he may have a smaller mana pool. With root and lull and LOH, a flexible Pali should be able to find a role in almost any grp, as a puller, main tank, back up heals, root CC and can even solo a bit with a good weapon.

[mitic]

I am debating whether or not i want to play a bard (only class i haven't gotten past 30).

easy once you reach lvl 27

[gargonauts]

Thanks for all the help/advice. I think im going to give the bard a try. Now if anyone had an extra mino axe laying around... i'd be set :p

Kisses for all

:p :p :p

[Skaff]

Hey all! I recently was pointed in the p1999 direction and and have been very excited to dig in once it's back up. Personally it has probably been best for the server to be down for this time. I am pretty much in finals week for this semester and I know I would have messed some things up!

Though this has given me some time to think about the class I would play on p1999. On live I played a monk and got to enjoy a lot of the pulling game though the velious and luclin era. After that I took some time off and eventually continued to play as my wizard but the game had changed a lot past that. I had a brief return last winter on the Mayong server as a bard. My general feelings on the characters were the following...

Monk: One of my favorite all time classes. I could take hits, pull, do damage, lay on the ground? I was good at pulling so that made me desired in groups.
Wizard: I enjoyed the utility and the damage I could offer. Though I felt my skill was underused.
Bard: I enjoyed the class but the current version of the bard basically makes you a bot.

Upon coming to project1999 I have considered the following classes...

Monk: That blind human with the sweet moustache might exit the gates of Qeynos once more! Since I am familiar with the class and have enjoyed it... it has to be on the list.
Enchanter: I've always thought the class has attracted some talented players with the tricks they can pull. Obviously the buffs make them desired and loved by all.
Warrior: Even though the EQ warrior is no rocket science, people always like good warriors.

I'm still throwing around potentials though. I considered the shaman a bit because I know the power they can wield with group buffs and debuffs. The bard is still cool but I dunno if the two extremes of the class of me can mesh. Currently on live the /melody makes everything a joke but the absence of it is basically dooming yourself to carpel tunnel! :) I'm open to any bits of advice for the server.

[Helnam]

If you like to relax at all while playing don't play a bard, or people will call you bad. It's the one class in the game where you have to be actively playing pretty much 100% of the time. I understand you're playing the game to play(durp de durp) but some people like to watch tv or masturbate(I blame hasbin for being too sexy and causing this) while playing now and again. If so, are bard is not for you.

[VincentVolaju]

How hard is it to play a Warrior/Tank? I mean, is there alot of threat management in EQ that the warrior has to deal with?

Also I heard its kind of pointless to make any Warrior that is NOT a Ogre, because of the stun immunity. Is that true, how much of nerfed Warrior are you if you dont have that stun immune? I was thinking of maybe doing a Halfing or Dwarf Warrior.

ps: Sorry for hijacking your thread op, just looked like there were alot of people in here that new what they were talking about lol =P

[Duffman]

Hello everyone, I am also new to the server and very excited to play. That being said, thank for you the information in this thread!

Not only am I new to the server, but I have a few friends that are coming as well, player list includes: Warrior, druid, enchanter, and some others that have not decided yet. Hope to see you all in a few days when the server comes back!

[jilena]

Well ogres also have by far the best starting stats for a warrior. People can wax on about agi and dex and other lame stuff but ogres have the highest str and stam with zero points in either at creation, so they are best there. Whether the frontal stun is worthwhile or not I dunno, it doesn't apply to casted stuns, only being stunned from melee so I'm not sure it makes that big of a diff. Like troll and barb you also get slam which means you don't have to wait til 55 or whatever when kick starts interrupting as well. Also something to consider.

Good monk and bard pullers are hard to come by until you get to 40+ on this server. I find that most players of either class don't want to pull in most groups and will only do so reluctantly. Paladins nullify this some by being able to lull pull. SK can also FD a really nasty pull 30+. Warrior you are either training your group or dying or maybe both.

If you are a good monk puller or good bard puller/cc you will probably have a pretty good chance of regular groups once people get to know you. Keep in mind though that P99 seems to have more monks than every single live server in the history of ever combined. They are everywhere. Almost as bad as druids! That said it hardly hurts to have more than one sexy monk for deeps. They can even tank okay in a pinch.

So since I am all over the place rambling here... Recap:

SK/Paladin - People will love you.
Warrior - People will love you slightly less.
Monk - If you pull people will love you and you probably will not have to fellate anyone for a group.
Bard - If you don't mind being on your toes and occupied constantly in your group people will love you though you may have to throw in a handjob to get a group slot.
Cleric - Easy enough to find groups.
Druid - You WILL end up with someone's junk in your mouth if you don't wanna be LFG 24/7.
Shaman - Prolly about the same as bards, more popular than druids but people aren't sitting around doing nothing waiting to find a shaman either.
Enchanter - P easy to find a group prolly same as a monk in terms of desirability.
Mage/Necro - You can bring the deeps. People will love you if you do anything more than just sit there semi-afk telling your pet to attack every other mob.
Wizard - A lot of bad wizards who afk for long periods of time abusing the fact that they do need a bit of medding, prolly gonna have a bit tougher time finding groups because of this.
Rogue - You will be LFG for a while.
Ranger - You will be LFG for a while though since there are like 2 rangers on the whole server you might find groups easily for novelty's sake.

This is what I perceived being someone levelling from 1-50 from late feb to late march and grouping for 95% of my exp (as a cleric). I could be wrong in some cases feel free to correct me. Just how my groups seemed to form.

[mitic]

warrior: hard to hold aggro till highendweapons/fast procing weaps are acquired, will be easier with kunark.
monk: dps, puller, can tank in low/midlvls
bard: puller, can tank in low/midlvls, cc,
rng: dps (some sort of), can pull if outdoors, can tank in low/midlvls (monk/bard better)
shk/pal: puller, tank
rog: dps
shm: buffs, backup-heals, dps (some sort of)
druid: buffs, backup-heals, dps (some sort of)
clr: heals, dps in undead zones,
wiz: dps (check mana once in a while on them to see if they r afk)
chanter: buffs, cc
necro/mage: dps

easy to find groups
hard to find groups

this is how it goes when iam leading groups and searching for others to fill spots.

but still, there is no golden rule on how a group should be formed. i had a group last week in unrest/fp of 5 casters and me as a bard being the puller, tank and cc killing stuff nonstop

[Volga]

Even back in EQ Classic Rangers had a heck of a time getting work.. When I first started to play I thought LFG was some kinda exclusive Ranger only guild.

[yage]

Hi all

Brand new here and tbh I've been waiting for something like this server since about 2005 -_-
I played mainly a monk, ranger and partially bard in EQ. I'm curious as to when Kunark will be unlocked? I will most likely save my monk until then.

In the mean time what is the population like? I'm in Australia so my play times would be off-peak for most of you. I was tossing up between a bard (songs, support class) and a shadow knight (tanking). Are bards or shadow knights in higher demand? Maybe a warrior?

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Hi all

Brand new here and tbh I've been waiting for something like this server since about 2005 -_-
I played mainly a monk, ranger and partially bard in EQ. I'm curious as to when Kunark will be unlocked? I will most likely save my monk until then.

In the mean time what is the population like? I'm in Australia so my play times would be off-peak for most of you. I was tossing up between a bard (songs, support class) and a shadow knight (tanking). Are bards or shadow knights in higher demand? Maybe a warrior?

Well, procrates on this server are fucknuts, so, once you have yaks on a 37+ warrior you're golden. Before that you're just bad dps unless it's a pet group ~_~ (rogues being your bane :P)

Everyone loves SK's on this server--sans raidguilds, of course--but I guess that's always been the case for hybrids. I know in IB it's funny--some nights we don't have a single paladin / sk / necro and...well, no one seems to notice because the wizards/mages/rogues/chanters showed up :P

To all making new characters here: Realize that 50 groups RAAAARELY happen, due to the loot camps being soloable by classes (enchanters, mages, and necros in lguk). If you have some pre-requisite skill and can stand being scum til 29, people love 29+ enchanters ;P--otherwise, go mage if you want to farm at 50.

[loganhxh]

warrior: hard to hold aggro till highendweapons/fast procing weaps are acquired, will be easier with kunark.
monk: dps, puller, can tank in low/midlvls
bard: puller, can tank in low/midlvls, cc,
rng: dps (some sort of), can pull if outdoors, can tank in low/midlvls (monk/bard better)
shk/pal: puller, tank
rog: dps
shm: buffs, backup-heals, dps (some sort of)
druid: buffs, backup-heals, dps (some sort of)
clr: heals, dps in undead zones,
wiz: dps (check mana once in a while on them to see if they r afk)
chanter: buffs, cc
necro/mage: dps

easy to find groups
hard to find groups

this is how it goes when iam leading groups and searching for others to fill spots.

but still, there is no golden rule on how a group should be formed. i had a group last week in unrest/fp of 5 casters and me as a bard being the puller, tank and cc killing stuff nonstop

check mana? was a mana bar added? :confused:

[Examino]

check mana? was a mana bar added? :confused:

I think he means asking in group "Mana check?"

[IAmFansy]

I think he means asking in group "Mana check?"

This kind of assuming-the-worst playstyle is ultimately counterproductive. If you start treating your wizards like villains they're gonna start to get pissed off and eventually ragequit.

[Eastwood]

I think that Jilena's class break down and group desirability factor at the end of page 2 was about perfect in my experience with EQ.

Like spot on, even including the stereotypical reasons people hesitate on certain classes.

[Bhutt]

I have not found getting a group (Rogue) to be all that hard. In off peak times, usually it's difficult because everyone is a solo class. I've just made it a point to stick around areas that group dynamics are needed/wanted.

[Scrubby McGee]

I disagree with the needing tanks. I mainly play a tank during 'peak' hours. While, I can imagine that people will need tanks during daytime hours when not many people are on, I often find is that people generally will only take 1 tank per group. What this means is that during peak hours, there's too many tanks. I've often found that I'm not the only tank looking for a group then either and most of the time, I have to put the group together.

When filling out groups myself, the things I have the most trouble finding are CC and dps (most of the mage/necs are soloing).

[YendorLootmonkey]

I have not found getting a group (Rogue) to be all that hard. In off peak times, usually it's difficult because everyone is a solo class. I've just made it a point to stick around areas that group dynamics are needed/wanted.

Bhutt's not very effective DPS in my groups when I tank, because I like to rotate around the mob so he never has a clean backstab shot and has to keep re-positioning, just to piss him off. :)

[Bhutt]

Bhutt's not very effective DPS in my groups when I tank, because I like to rotate around the mob so he never has a clean backstab shot and has to keep re-positioning, just to piss him off. :)

True story. But, thankfully Yendor only wears cloth armor (if you consider a leopard skin g-string and a sailor hat armor) so he tends to go down faster then a prom queen in Texas. :D

[Dangergirl]

I think alot of you would be surprised to know that at lvl 48 and under, Druid and Wizard Damage:Mana ratio on DD is exactly the same! Only at 49 is it Wiz 2.8 Dru 2.45. BTW Druids get the 2nd biggest nukes in the game!

If you add in the small amount of + damage from strength buffs + the damage from damage shields (Yes wizzies get a damage shield but it is far inferior) It could be argued that Druids out DPS wizzies in grps! Add in the druid dot that is irresistible to anything within 8 levels (live) and has a 3.2 D:M at lvl 44 and you have a convincing argument!

If wizzies have harvest (self mana regen) on p99 that is a factor but If I remember on live it was like a bub of mana every 10 minutes and took a spell slot (I am probably wrong on these numbers), not sure that would outdo thorns.

So when I see peeps post Druids as sort of DPS and Wizzies as DPS, I have to chuckle.

Lets not even get to the fact that Druids have heals!

In my opinion the 4 best spells on P99 are Clarity, CHeal, SoW and Pack Regen, of which druids get 2.

Which class to play on p99? C'MON MAN!

[Malrubius]

I love druids too - great soloing capability and good in groups. But I think this is kind of stretching it...

In my opinion the 4 best spells on P99 are Clarity, CHeal, SoW and Pack Regen, of which druids get 2.

Clarity isn't even in the top 5 of an Enchanter's "best spells", much less one of the best spells in the game. Sure, we can argue about what "best spell" even means, but I don't think any of the 4 you listed would be in most people's top 10 (with the possible exception of complete heal).

Just my 2 cents.

[Daviss34]

I think alot of you would be surprised to know that at lvl 48 and under, Druid and Wizard Damage:Mana ratio on DD is exactly the same! Only at 49 is it Wiz 2.8 Dru 2.45. BTW Druids get the 2nd biggest nukes in the game!

If you add in the small amount of + damage from strength buffs + the damage from damage shields (Yes wizzies get a damage shield but it is far inferior) It could be argued that Druids out DPS wizzies in grps! Add in the druid dot that is irresistible to anything within 8 levels (live) and has a 3.2 D:M at lvl 44 and you have a convincing argument!

If wizzies have harvest (self mana regen) on p99 that is a factor but If I remember on live it was like a bub of mana every 10 minutes and took a spell slot (I am probably wrong on these numbers), not sure that would outdo thorns.

So when I see peeps post Druids as sort of DPS and Wizzies as DPS, I have to chuckle.

Lets not even get to the fact that Druids have heals!

In my opinion the 4 best spells on P99 are Clarity, CHeal, SoW and Pack Regen, of which druids get 2.

Which class to play on p99? C'MON MAN!

Ok,I am going to compare a few levels of spells between druids and wizards just to show this is complete horseshit. I would start at level 24 because that is when new spell levels sync up, but druids don't get a new single DD every level. So I will begin at 29.
Level 29
Druid- Combust Fire based DD (171-182 damage) 110
182/110=1.6545
Wiz- Inferno Shock Fire based DD (237-250 damage) 135
250/135=1.8518
Ok so already wrong.....

Level 39
Druid- Firestrike Fire based DD (282-302 damage) 155
302/155=1.9483
Wiz- Lightning Shock Magic based DD (381-405 damage) 180
405/180= 2.25
Wronger.....

Level 44
Druid- Calefaction Fire based DD (444-450 damage) 250
450/250=1.8
Wiz- Confaguration Fire based DD (606-625 damage) 250
625/250=2.5
Wrongest
Theory debunked, thanks for playing though. Research is kind of important.

[stormlord]

Even back in EQ Classic Rangers had a heck of a time getting work.. When I first started to play I thought LFG was some kinda exclusive Ranger only guild.

I was a ranger. I played between march and june 1999. I always found someone to group with.

Maybe when the servers get top heavy, but until then it's fine.

Debating which class to play now is kind of premature imho.

I think you're all just bored.

I just shaved. Stub of hair on my neck that i'm fingering. I'm going to go grab the shaver.

[mitic]

and lets not forget the casting time between druids < wizards on DD-spells

[Rael]

I love druids too - great soloing capability and good in groups. But I think this is kind of stretching it...



Clarity isn't even in the top 5 of an Enchanter's "best spells", much less one of the best spells in the game. Sure, we can argue about what "best spell" even means, but I don't think any of the 4 you listed would be in most people's top 10 (with the possible exception of complete heal).

Just my 2 cents.

Clarity and chloro are essential for raids to cut downtime.

I was a ranger. I played between march and june 1999. I always found someone to group with.

In 1999 people barely knew the game, let alone the "rangers are gimped" meme.

[Examino]

and lets not forget the casting time between druids < wizards on DD-spells

can you explain?

all this talk about druid and wiz is making me consider a different main. are wizzies really that useless?

my wiz is 23.

mage/nec solo better than wiz

now people are saying druids are on par with wizards? wtf is my wiz going to be good for then :confused:

[Dangergirl]

Ok,I am going to compare a few levels of spells between druids and wizards just to show this is complete horseshit. I would start at level 24 because that is when new spell levels sync up, but druids don't get a new single DD every level. So I will begin at 29.
Level 29
Druid- Combust Fire based DD (171-182 damage) 110
182/110=1.6545
Wiz- Inferno Shock Fire based DD (237-250 damage) 135
250/135=1.8518
Ok so already wrong.....

Level 39
Druid- Firestrike Fire based DD (282-302 damage) 155
302/155=1.9483
Wiz- Lightning Shock Magic based DD (381-405 damage) 180
405/180= 2.25
Wronger.....

Level 44
Druid- Calefaction Fire based DD (444-450 damage) 250
450/250=1.8
Wiz- Confaguration Fire based DD (606-625 damage) 250
625/250=2.5
Wrongest
Theory debunked, thanks for playing though. Research is kind of important.

You have a very good point, so For all the heals and sow and regen Druids get, our spells are about 12% less mana efficient throughout.

Califaction is not a fair compare, it is a specialty quick cast, but hey you know it all right?

My theory is that the damage sheild and Str outweigh this 12% so calm down bunkie, you aint disproved a thing.

Dont get so angry, you can still re roll druid and get 25% bonus for a week :)

[Healthcare]

One other thing to keep in mind are how many other people are playing the class. I personally have a hard time sometimes playing something that there's A LOT of so take that into consideration with druids, which there's a lot of. That may also be a problem when you try to find groups and find a bunch of other druids ahead of you, unless of course they're all out soloing.

[Dangergirl]

I love druids too - great soloing capability and good in groups. But I think this is kind of stretching it...



Clarity isn't even in the top 5 of an Enchanter's "best spells", much less one of the best spells in the game. Sure, we can argue about what "best spell" even means, but I don't think any of the 4 you listed would be in most people's top 10 (with the possible exception of complete heal).

Just my 2 cents.

If there are 5 better chanter spells than Clarity then name them. (this is P99 remember). Lets be fair and count Mezmorize once not every new mezz spell a chanter gets, and ill give u aoe mezz as a 2nd.

[Spud]

CHARM
MEZ
uh... illusion: dwarf
uh, HASTE

[Daviss34]

I think alot of you would be surprised to know that at lvl 48 and under, Druid and Wizard Damage:Mana ratio on DD is exactly the same! Only at 49 is it Wiz 2.8 Dru 2.45. BTW Druids get the 2nd biggest nukes in the game!


Clearly, I was speaking towards your original assertion that Wizzy and Druid damage to mana ratios on DD's are Exactly the same. Now if you had asserted that the extra utility makes up for the difference I would have said that's your prerogative to do so. However you did not say that in your original post, you said the ratio's are exactly the same so why roll a wiz! I was simply saying that's a completely false statement, the ratio's are not the remotely the same.
You stated "My theory is that the damage sheild and Str outweigh this 12% so calm down bunkie, you aint disproved a thing." Please show me where you stated that was your theory in the previous post. Acting like what you were saying all along was the utility makes up for the ratio difference is untrue. You stated There was NO difference. Now you have confused a level 23 wizard into thinking that a druid can do exactly the same dps as a wizard but also gets a bunch of utility, and that's simply untrue. This is why your misinformation is harmful, please do a little research before you post broad statements and back it up with some numbers, not just random assertions. Once again your theory was straight up debunked.

[Malrubius]

can you explain?

all this talk about druid and wiz is making me consider a different main. are wizzies really that useless?

my wiz is 23.

mage/nec solo better than wiz

now people are saying druids are on par with wizards? wtf is my wiz going to be good for then :confused:

Play what you want to play. A lot of the above is the "my class is better than your class" crap that was pretty common back in the classic EQ days. I haven't seen much of it here though.

Druids are good at stuff. Wizzies are good at stuff. Mages and Necros? Yep, them too. Actually, every class (well, except Rangers ;) ) are good at stuff. They're all fun to play, and all very different (unlike other mmorpgs where such differences are watered down).

[Dangergirl]

CHARM
MEZ
uh... illusion: dwarf
uh, HASTE

Are you insane? Everyone knows illusion: gnome > illusion:dwarf!

Except, of course, for that rare occasion when your female toon has a beard in dwarf from, then the tables are turned and I stand corrected.

[Malrubius]

CHARM
MEZ
uh... illusion: dwarf
uh, HASTE

lol - Illusion: Dwarf for the flips!

Okay...
SLOW
STUN
gravity flux!

[Dangergirl]

Clearly, I was speaking towards your original assertion that Wizzy and Druid damage to mana ratios on DD's are Exactly the same. Now if you had asserted that the extra utility makes up for the difference I would have said that's your prerogative to do so. However you did not say that in your original post, you said the ratio's are exactly the same so why roll a wiz! I was simply saying that's a completely false statement, the ratio's are not the remotely the same.
You stated "My theory is that the damage sheild and Str outweigh this 12% so calm down bunkie, you aint disproved a thing." Please show me where you stated that was your theory in the previous post. Acting like what you were saying all along was the utility makes up for the ratio difference is untrue. You stated There was NO difference. Now you have confused a level 23 wizard into thinking that a druid can do exactly the same dps as a wizard but also gets a bunch of utility, and that's simply untrue. This is why your misinformation is harmful, please do a little research before you post broad statements and back it up with some numbers, not just random assertions. Once again your theory was straight up debunked.

I made an incorrect statement of fact about mana ratios as a pillar of my theory because I compared mana ratios of equal damage spells , which admittedly was unfair to the wizzie argument. That was just the opening statement before I stated my theory. I'm sorry you are so poorly educated but that was a FACT that I stated incorrectly not a theory. My theory was the next paragraph.

"If you add in the small amount of + damage from strength buffs + the damage from damage shields (Yes wizzies get a damage shield but it is far inferior) It could be argued that Druids out DPS wizzies in grps! Add in the druid dot that is irresistible to anything within 8 levels (live) and has a 3.2 D:M at lvl 44 and you have a convincing argument!"

Don't get upset because you don't know the diff tween a Fact and theory, I admit I got the facts wrong pre 48, but I have them right post 49, and it doesn't matter anyways, 80+% of peeps reading this will roll druids over wizzies.

Also, If you quoted my whole statement, you best off read it, and if you read it and forgot what I said in it so quickly, then we know your mental capacity.

Go shoot up the post office you work at then take my advice on your new druid...115 points in wisdom :P

[Malrubius]

I think I'm starting to form a theory too.

[Dangergirl]

And the winner is.....

Play the class you will enjoy most!

I have a friend who loves to nuke for big numbers, he takes screenshots n prints them out and puts them in Christmas cards! The guy is nuts, but for him, anything but a wizzie is a poor choice.

I have another friend who talks about damage mitigation on his warrior all the time, he loves to go to places where lower lvl mobs hit him for hours without him dying and he takes screen shots of that crap, so for him, there is no other choice but a warrior.

Decide what you enjoy doing most and pick a class that does it well, if every person on here agreed that Druids were best, but you rip your hair out every time someone asks for a sow or port...

[Tallenn]

The problem is that in people's minds, druids are far inferior to almost every other DPS class in DPS, and in people's minds is the only place that matters, since that is what they will use to decide who to ask to join the group.

Don't forget that a druid in the group also makes it much safer. When the shit hits the fan, and the cleric is chain CHing the tank, the druid can still keep both the cleric and the chanter alive. There is also always evac, but honestly? In all my years as a druid, I remember using evac exactly TWICE to avoid a wipe. Note that this doesn't include the AA Exodus, which actually DOES often save groups, since it is instant cast.

[Daviss34]

I made an incorrect statement of fact about mana ratios as a pillar of my theory because I compared mana ratios of equal damage spells , which admittedly was unfair to the wizzie argument. That was just the opening statement before I stated my theory. I'm sorry you are so poorly educated but that was a FACT that I stated incorrectly not a theory. My theory was the next paragraph.

"If you add in the small amount of + damage from strength buffs + the damage from damage shields (Yes wizzies get a damage shield but it is far inferior) It could be argued that Druids out DPS wizzies in grps! Add in the druid dot that is irresistible to anything within 8 levels (live) and has a 3.2 D:M at lvl 44 and you have a convincing argument!"

Don't get upset because you don't know the diff tween a Fact and theory, I admit I got the facts wrong pre 48, but I have them right post 49, and it doesn't matter anyways, 80+% of peeps reading this will roll druids over wizzies.

Also, If you quoted my whole statement, you best off read it, and if you read it and forgot what I said in it so quickly, then we know your mental capacity.

Go shoot up the post office you work at then take my advice on your new druid...115 points in wisdom :P

So you are saying that the fact you used as a pillar of your theory was incorrect. Well if you base a theory on a fact that is incorrect it's probably going to make that theory wrong. Now if you look at my statement from my earlier post:
"Clearly, I was speaking towards your original assertion that Wizzy and Druid damage to mana ratios on DD's are Exactly the same. Now if you had asserted that the extra utility makes up for the difference I would have said that's your prerogative to do so."
So this time in lament terms since you have trouble reading; remove the incorrect fact that the ratio's are the same as a basis for your theory. Instead start a new theory saying "if you state the difference in DPS from DD for Wizards versus DD and utility for druids, it may be close enough to be considered negligible" in your opinion. I would have considered this a personal preference and reasonable to state. The only place where I had a problem is your incorrect fact, and since we have come to the conclusion that you didn't know what you were talking about in terms of pure data, and have now been informed, feel free to use your new and reasonable theory to state why you think Druids are superior to Wizards as DPS. Ya herrrrr me?

[mitic]

, but I have them right post 49,

post 49 is where wizards shine with their nukes, fastest cast timers, lures..

[KilyenaMage]

Well, procrates on this server are fucknuts, so, once you have yaks on a 37+ warrior you're golden. Before that you're just bad dps unless it's a pet group ~_~ (rogues being your bane :P)


Keep in mind that a new player is VVERRRRYYY unlikely to get their hands on an SSOY (yaks - Short Sword of the Ykesha - for any REALLY new players) until they are at least 40+. And probably not until theyre 45+.

Keep in mind that Warriors, generally, WILL get decked out in Raid Gear as soon as they are 46+. This is basically true of ANY/ALL tanks who prove to a Guild that they are worth gearing up.

Once Kunark opens, Warriors will be the tank of choice for raids, hands-down with their Defensive Discipline. I would still give the edge to SKs in terms of a XP GROUP tank (for their greater ability to hold aggro.) And I'd give an even bigger edge to PALADINS as an XP GROUP tank because they bring so much more to a group than just aggro.

Bottom line though, you WILL have a rough go if you play a Warrior -- until you reach lvl 40 or so and have some decent aggro weapons.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Wizards are VERY under-represented on this server.....as has already been stated, they suffer from the need to med more frequently than just about any class. Unfortunately when a Wizzy goes OOM, he no longer offers ANYTHING to the group. Unlike a Mage or Necro who's pet will still be DPSing after they've gone OOM.

THAT being said Wizzies DO offer the fastest burst DPS available -- and with a good tank, this can literally be a GROUP-SAVER on a bad pull, or when the healers are OOM etc.
A well-played Wizzy is ALWAYS welcome in any of my groups.

The release of the KUNARK EXPANSION is also a huge boost to Wizards...in fact Wizzies begin to outshine Necros/Mages at this point (IMO.) On raids pets will be unreliable at best -- many guilds wont even allow for the use of pets on raids due to this fact. Additionally, Necro/Mage nukes and DOTs become very ineffective on raids starting in Kunark. The same is true of Enchanter nukes starting during the classic era.

Wizzies however, get their low-resist Lure line of spells....which will land on just about any raid target in Kunark (and most in Velious as well.) At this point you won't have to worry about going OOM either -- those useless Mages will be summoning you mana-rods, and you should always have clarity on during raids.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As for all the Druid hate I don't really understand it. Druids are the game's TRUE hybrids afterall. A Druid is welcome in any of my groups thats for sure -- no other class can match their ability to be a DPSer one second, a healer the next second AND STILL offer the group some minor CC with roots / snares.
Sure there are TONS of them on the server currently, so bear that in mind. The large number of Druids means that getting raid gear will take substantially longer than many other classes. THIS IS ALSO TRUE OF MAGICIANS, NECROMANCERS AND ENCHANTERS.


IF you'

[Dangergirl]

So this time in lament terms since you have trouble reading

I apologize for calling you uneducated. I cry for the uneducated.

And I think my theory is clearly stated and restated: I feel thorns + str bonus in grp = the same or more dps as a wizzie, even with wizzie DD being more efficient.

It's a no brainer that + utility the druid is superior. Pack chloroplast is a potential 27 hp per mana. Sow alone might be worth 12% Heals for sure are worth 12%!

[CronosZ]

How bout this............

Find a lvl 24 Wizard, and a 24 Druid similarly equiped based on level. both join the same group. PARSE ?

and then in the end play what you like.

[Dangergirl]

post 49 is where wizards shine with their nukes, fastest cast timers, lures..

Find me a Wiz who can cast a lure on p99 and you win!

[KilyenaMage]

IMPORTANT -- PLAY THE CLASS YOU TRULY DESIRE TO PLAY, REGARDLESS OF THE POSTS IN THIS THREAD. IT'S A LONG ROAD TO LEVEL 50, ONLY TO REALIZE YOU DONT EVEN ENJOY PLAYING YOUR TOON ANYMORE.

I comment only on those classes above because those are the classes I know the most about.

[KilyenaMage]

Find me a Wiz who can cast a lure on p99 and you win!

I'm about 99% sure that wizzies get lures during Kunark -- at which pont they become an asset to any Guild.

No other class will be providing the burst DPS they can offer against Raid targets. (except maybe rogues !?!?)

PS -- NO OVER-NUKING PLEASE !!!

[mitic]

I'm about 99% sure that wizzies get lures during Kunark -- at which pont they become an asset to any Guild.

No other class will be providing the burst DPS they can offer against Raid targets. (except maybe rogues !?!?)

PS -- NO OVER-NUKING PLEASE !!!

rogues for sure with duelist and their ez epic...bet we will see most of them highlvls with epics the first week kunark is out...most things of their epic is already farmable now

[Skope]

play whatever class you want, but keep in mind the issues of timezones/playtimes. groups are quite frequent here during late afternoon/evening EST.

But if you want a class that'll shine in kunark don't make a mage... despite what people here think they really do stink in kunark compared to necros/monks/shaman. they do make a fantastic first class in classic though, and because you're an int caster that doesn't/can't quad you have no real need for int really. level about the same with no int gear as you would with int gear, so buying gear isn't a priority (other than a shovel and torch).

I went with necro and have grouped maybe once in 42 levels and don't plan on grouping till i start raiding. if played correctly solo you can level faster than you would have if you were grouping. It's not that I have an aversion or distaste of groups, but because as a necro i can go afk whenever the hell i want and come back and fear-quad kite when im FM :P my point is EQ isn't hard, and if you pick the right class and you're smart and clever enough you can get by quite easily.

[Dangergirl]

play whatever class you want, but keep in mind the issues of timezones/playtimes. groups are quite frequent here during late afternoon/evening EST.

But if you want a class that'll shine in kunark don't make a mage... despite what people here think they really do stink in kunark compared to necros/monks/shaman. they do make a fantastic first class in classic though, and because you're an int caster that doesn't/can't quad you have no real need for int really. level about the same with no int gear as you would with int gear, so buying gear isn't a priority (other than a shovel and torch).

I went with necro and have grouped maybe once in 42 levels and don't plan on grouping till i start raiding. if played correctly solo you can level faster than you would have if you were grouping. It's not that I have an aversion or distaste of groups, but because as a necro i can go afk whenever the hell i want and come back and fear-quad kite when im FM :P my point is EQ isn't hard, and if you pick the right class and you're smart and clever enough you can get by quite easily.

Good point but you didn't spell it out as to why, and that is most mobs have crazy high Fire resistance in Kunark.

[choklo]

But if you want a class that'll shine in kunark don't make a mage... despite what people here think they really do stink in kunark compared to necros/monks/shaman.

Would you care to explain this a little more? Why to they "stink" in kunark compared to those other classes?

Is mob fire resistance in kunark a problem? I don't use my fire pet in groups anyway. I use an air pet for the stuns. Is raiding a problem for mage pets? I read that mage sustained dps is better than wizards in raids.

Do mages still "stink" in velous?

My main is a mage right now, but I'm only lvl 17.

[Finawin]

Lol I played a mage through Kunark and I still laugh.

You just have to tweak your tactics 50+. You can't tank and spank with a focused fire pet like you did all through classic.

The tactic is relatively the same, but pet chaining is still > necro efficiency and speed, period. I've done both extensively and the mage is faster, and easier.

Necro is simply safer because of the escape mechanics of FD.

[Skope]

not quite sure what world you live on, Finawin, but i'd love to join you! it seems a magical place with wondrous plains and beautiful mountains!

mage pets just aren't the same in kunark as they are in classic. The DPS, iirc, was decent (pet DPS), the nukes on the other hand are weaker and don't match up with wizzies as well as they do in classic. The pets can't quite take the hits that kunark mobs dish out, even the earth pet. because the mobs hit harder and have more hp than your pets can handle, you're ultimately you're left with no other option but to chaincast your pet if you plan to solo, which despite what finawin thinks, is nowhere near as efficient as a necro. they still make excellent group DPS and will always be the best class to farm lower lvl dungeons with, thus a great moneymaker as well.

[choklo]

How do mages do in velous? Chain casting pets doesn't sound like fun, but if it's only for soloing, I guess it's not too bad.

[loganhxh]

im with skope on the mage vs nec solo ability. but i am still at a toss up between the two for which to play. part of me see's a chance to finally... finally... get the mage epic that i always wanted :cool:

how are mages/necros accepted group-wise on this server? are there too many bad ones that people consider their pets liabilities in dungeons?

[Finawin]

Watch how long and how much mana it takes a necro to kite Allizewsaur and how fast and how much mana it takes a mage to do the same.

I will gladly show you how shit is done when the time comes in Kunark. (Assuming I bother playing my Mage as much as my Paladin or Cleric by then)

[Skope]

how are mages/necros accepted group-wise on this server? are there too many bad ones that people consider their pets liabilities in dungeons?

group-wise they're awesome. both have fantastic DPS in classic (arguably highest DPS). Pick what you want, but as a fair warning you must realize that your mage will not be played at all come high end velious, unless you get off on mod rod duty. Necros, on the other hand, have the highest DPS in the game by that point (probably earlier). the mage is by far the easiest to level on p99 and still is the prime choice for a first character if you're deciding on leveling an alt/melee and twinking to get it as high as possible before kunark comes out.

it's a matter of what you want. if you plan on leveling fast and putting the char on the backburner while your alt takes the stage, then mage is the best first class for you. if you want a bit more fun/utility then necro is great :D chanters are awesome as well, probably the best "pocket" class to have, surpassing druids. let somebody else port ;P

[Skope]

group-wise they're awesome. both have fantastic DPS in classic (arguably highest DPS). Pick what you want, but as a fair warning you must realize that your mage will not be played at all come high end velious, unless you get off on mod rod duty. Necros, on the other hand, have the highest DPS in the game by that point (probably earlier). the mage is by far the easiest to level on p99 and still is the prime choice for a first character if you're deciding on leveling an alt/melee and twinking to get it as high as possible before kunark comes out.

it's a matter of what you want. if you plan on leveling fast and putting the char on the backburner while your alt takes the stage, then mage is the best first class for you. if you want a bit more fun/utility then necro is great :D chanters are awesome as well, probably the best "pocket" class to have, surpassing druids. let somebody else port ;P

Finawin, perhaps you don't get it, so let me reiterate. I never stated mages stink in classic. in fact i know they're the closest thing to an OP class p99 has atm. They're fantastic at making money, by far the easiest to level, and you don't even have to buy them any gear other than a torch and shovel. but when kunark comes out this necro will be camping some of the best loot in the game in the depths of sebilis with maybe an AoE wizzy group and a few shaman, whereas your mage will be chain-casting pets trying to down dino. Finawin, the point is the mage bandwagon will not take you for a lengthy ride so enjoy it while it lasts.

[choklo]

I really enjoyed playing my necro alt on live 9 years ago. I only got to the low 30's before I quit though. I had a level 62 sk ogre too.
I have a lvl 7 chanter now on the back burner since starting my mage. The chanter was slow to level and a little dull and the mage was so much easier/faster to level.
When does the chanter start to get more interesting? Also, what is a "pocket" class? I've always wanted to try a chanter. When can you start to solo with them?

[Finawin]

I just explained to you that I've played a mage through Kunark and know that is complete bullshit lol

[Tallenn]

I really enjoyed playing my necro alt on live 9 years ago. I only got to the low 30's before I quit though. I had a level 62 sk ogre too.
I have a lvl 7 chanter now on the back burner since starting my mage. The chanter was slow to level and a little dull and the mage was so much easier/faster to level.
When does the chanter start to get more interesting? Also, what is a "pocket" class? I've always wanted to try a chanter. When can you start to solo with them?

Chanters can solo from 1 on up. I solo'd mine to 16 so far (not because I wanted to- I just couldn't find groups) probably as easily or easier than soloing my druid to 14. Of course, the druid soloing will probably start to far outpace at this level, and especially at 19, but up to now, the chanter has been easier. I haven't even done any charming yet. That's just using wussy summoned pet.

[Blackbilly]

if you don't mind ruining some of your factions, enchanters using charm can level very fast in some spots. at lower levels i remember charming tiny miller and taking him around WK and clearing the zone.

[KilyenaMage]

Lol I played a mage through Kunark and I still laugh.

You just have to tweak your tactics 50+. You can't tank and spank with a focused fire pet like you did all through classic.

The tactic is relatively the same, but pet chaining is still > necro efficiency and speed, period. I've done both extensively and the mage is faster, and easier.

Necro is simply safer because of the escape mechanics of FD.


Yeah....I have seen lvl 60s Necros easily soloing named mobs in Howling Stones though. Very profitable.

[KilyenaMage]

not quite sure what world you live on, Finawin, but i'd love to join you! it seems a magical place with wondrous plains and beautiful mountains!

mage pets just aren't the same in kunark as they are in classic. The DPS, iirc, was decent (pet DPS), the nukes on the other hand are weaker and don't match up with wizzies as well as they do in classic. The pets can't quite take the hits that kunark mobs dish out, even the earth pet. because the mobs hit harder and have more hp than your pets can handle, you're ultimately you're left with no other option but to chaincast your pet if you plan to solo, which despite what finawin thinks, is nowhere near as efficient as a necro. they still make excellent group DPS and will always be the best class to farm lower lvl dungeons with, thus a great moneymaker as well.

This was all true and VERY intentional. Mages were OVERPOWERED DURING CLASSIC....it's a simple fact. Their nukes were nearly as strong as wizzy nukes, short of Ice Comet - and their pets allowed for steady DPS between nukes.

THIS is exactly one of the reasons why Kunark mobs have much higher spells resists....and thusly Wizards get Lures, while NO other classes do. Additionally as has been stated, Kunark mobs not only hit alot harder but they have a LOT more HP. Burning them down like classic mobs is far from mana efficient.

EDIT -- Of course the MAGE EPIC should get honorable mention here. Once epicced any Mage was set until Luclin as being one of the highest-DPS toons in the game, period. I remember playing my Dwarf Warrior on Tallon Zek and dueling a Guildee Mage of mine - this was during velious, and my warrior was in full Kael Armor / NTOV gear. Wielding a Claw of Lightning (14/18 - 41% haste) and a Primal 1HB. Even with the Avatar buff constantly on my Warrior, the Mage Epic pet was significantly more powerful than him in a toe-to-toe fight (with the Mage casting ZERO spells.)

[Lickum]

I made an incorrect statement of fact about mana ratios as a pillar of my theory because I compared mana ratios of equal damage spells , which admittedly was unfair to the wizzie argument. That was just the opening statement before I stated my theory. I'm sorry you are so poorly educated but that was a FACT that I stated incorrectly not a theory. My theory was the next paragraph.

"If you add in the small amount of + damage from strength buffs + the damage from damage shields (Yes wizzies get a damage shield but it is far inferior) It could be argued that Druids out DPS wizzies in grps! Add in the druid dot that is irresistible to anything within 8 levels (live) and has a 3.2 D:M at lvl 44 and you have a convincing argument!"

Don't get upset because you don't know the diff tween a Fact and theory, I admit I got the facts wrong pre 48, but I have them right post 49, and it doesn't matter anyways, 80+% of peeps reading this will roll druids over wizzies.

Also, If you quoted my whole statement, you best off read it, and if you read it and forgot what I said in it so quickly, then we know your mental capacity.

Go shoot up the post office you work at then take my advice on your new druid...115 points in wisdom :P

Wisdom is easy to get, go STA!

[nalkin]

Wisdom is easy to get, go STA!

casters get shit for stam. ~1-2 hp per stam at 50. Believe you me that whopping 40 hp isn't gonna make a difference considering the mobs do 200 damage per round.