Resist observations

[socialist]

I've made the following observations:

1) 90+ mr is enough to resist a fair majority of root and other CC-like effects, but they still land some.

2) resists up to 120ish appear to do virtually nothing against nukes. Haven't had more than 120 to test with yet. At 90ish mr, clerics can nuke me for full damage repeatedly back to back. I've never managed a partial resist against any fire/cold nuke, having about 50 in each.

3) root rarely lands, but when it does, it seems to last its full duration very often. I can be fighting people and resist 6 roots, then one lands and lasts 30 seconds. The early break ticks appear to work poorly or missing entirely.

4) there's something weird about resists in PvE, it feels like they do very little. I've been repeatedly nuked for full damage by green mobs despite having 50-80ish in that resist, I've been kept rooted for minutes by a green charmed ghoul, etc.

5) enchanter nukes seem extremely easy to resist, on par with CC effects. I heard they intended to do some custom code to make these nukes land better as the stun component would otherwise make them resist as easily as a regular stun, but this doesn't seem to work.

Predictions:

- If the resist system is such that you can get enough mr to resist most CC but never the near-immunity of classic EQ, and roots typically last for a long time, then by far the best PvP strategy is to get a couple of casters to spam root on the kill target until one of them sticks and he autodies. By far the most of my deaths have been from one root landing and lasting from 100% hp to death when my mr is otherwise high enough to shrug off most CC attempts.

- If resists really don't do very much against nukes until extreme levels, it's probably not worth trying to get fr/cr at all and people will instead gear for 100mr and then hp. Most classes can only barely break 100 fr unbuffed, for example, or they could have several hundred extra hp instead. If that's how resists end up working, it may create an insane PvP environment where nukes just typically land for full damage all the time and nobody will try to use anything else.

[Darwoth]

was fighting a mage today and only half of his whatever of swords did near full damage to me, that was with 77 mr.

if you look at the beta resist thread and assuming nothing has been changed 100 is where you start to see a difference for elemental based nukes with it rapidly scaling after that.

[socialist]

My biggest concern is with root consistently lasting its full duration against high-ish mr. I remember Null mentioning that he removed the heartbeat ticks from root, and I assumed that was the thing where it could break .1 second after landing. Could he have broken something and removed the 6-second tick checks as well? It seems absurd to intentionally implement such a high degree of randomization, because a full-duration root equals guaranteed death and should generally not happen against players with enough mr to straight up resist root 80% of the time.

[Truth]

Bard mez is pretty messed up in pve. I manually spam the pulses and still get early breaks (within 3 seconds recast) fairly often. Should be able to literally afk with AE mez and the pulses should keep train under control.

[Darwoth]

think the tradeoff with root was that a percentage of the melee damage taken while rooted would convert to chance to break, dont think this applies with spells though.

[socialist]

think the tradeoff with root was that a percentage of the melee damage taken while rooted would convert to chance to break, dont think this applies with spells though.

Not sure how well this works. Earlier I had yet another instance of one root landing and sticking until a group of melees beat me from full to dead. Happens fairly routinely. The feature certainly doesn't translate into a reasonable compensation for removing periodic checks for early root breaks. If root is actually coded to always last its full duration when it lands, that is broken beyond all reason and anyone who knows their PvP can see why. The semi-custom resist system on this server seems to lean towards CC spells always having a tangible chance to land, even when mr is high enough to resist most attempts. That's alright by itself, but adding always-full-duration roots on top of that is just way too much. One or the other, not both. If the goal of the altered resist system is to make PvP more fair and skill-based, the result does the exact opposite.

[Darwoth]

i would have preferred classic resists, not all this adjusted stuff.

i am just glad my nukes dont do 30 damage anymore like they did for the great majority of the beta.

[socialist]

i would have preferred classic resists, not all this adjusted stuff.

Me too.

[Amuk]

Root/snares shouldn't be landing on 100+ MR, ohwell - hard to implement a resist system where half the people troll for their own advantage.

Lovely/Darwoth campaigning to keep red wands in so they can aoe guards down and recharge with the plat from guards for example. I wouldn't blame Null if he didn't change a god damn thing and just said fuck yourselves.

[socialist]

Null: Removed heart beat ticks from Root in PvP.
Null: Removed Partials from Root and Snare.

There's the problem. Any PvP veteran can vouch for the fact that guaranteed full-duration root is retarded. There's a reason the original developers coded a tick check for early breaks and made it so people in resist gear never had to sit through full roots.

If you want spells to land more often than they did on live (which is obviously the intention here) then you can't also make those spells stronger than they were on live. Currently, the resist system does the following:

- CC lands more often
- Roots always last their full duration
- Nukes are harder to resist
- Various defensive spells are too effective, such as shadowstep

It all translates into a bunch of advantages for casters while melees get nothing, and are in fact a little worse off since the server has even more trouble calculating positioning and hitboxes than on live. For results, see the server's class distribution: 95% casters.

[Doors]

Gate is literally impossible to interupt without multiple people either slamming or landing stun line spells.

[Greenkrak]

lotta ppl whinin in this thread

[Melveny]

For those unaware,

This thread was created because Socalist went 1v6 (by choice) and didn't think we would or could root him. Well we did and he died.

Insert QQ about resists thread

[Verdu]

Gate is literally impossible to interupt without multiple people either slamming or landing stun line spells.

That element is actually classic. If someone had max channeling, you needed a chanter to stop the gate or someone to properly time a slam/bash.

[Palemoon]

Channeling is way too strong. I've watched people gate with full trains beating on them. Casters are just gateing out of dungeons with 15+ mob trains on them instead of running 300 yards to the zone line, they know gate will go off.

If fire/cold nukes are going to hit for max most of the time untill 100+ resists are reached, why was the pvp percentage reduction changed from 66 percent to 80 percent? We should be seeing more partials at 50, 60, 70 fire/cold resists if nukes have been "unnerfed" to hit for 80 percent of max in pvp.

[gloinz]

There's the problem. Any PvP veteran can vouch for the fact that guaranteed full-duration root is retarded. There's a reason the original developers coded a tick check for early breaks and made it so people in resist gear never had to sit through full roots.

If you want spells to land more often than they did on live (which is obviously the intention here) then you can't also make those spells stronger than they were on live. Currently, the resist system does the following:

- CC lands more often
- Roots always last their full duration
- Nukes are harder to resist
- Various defensive spells are too effective, such as shadowstep

It all translates into a bunch of advantages for casters while melees get nothing, and are in fact a little worse off since the server has even more trouble calculating positioning and hitboxes than on live. For results, see the server's class distribution: 95% casters.

they made it so with 100 mr root never stuck bc... once ur rooted its over johnny ITS OVER
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_xdoDM26fOPM/S98EYEgRhVI/AAAAAAAAANg/4UFk09BCe7o/s1600/rambo.jpg

[Knuckle]

Disease DoTs need work. I can resist them 50% of the time and I havent even equipped my thex dagger from my level 3 halfling boss mesothorny.

[socialist]

For those unaware,

This thread was created because Socalist went 1v6 (by choice) and didn't think we would or could root him. Well we did and he died.

Insert QQ about resists thread

No, but if you wanna keep believing that, go right ahead. Unlike Holocaust, I just want the best for the server. Noticing a root stick for 30 seconds through 5 melees beating me from 100% to dead is something worth bringing up, and not because it happened yesterday but because it happens fairly regularly (usually I'm on the other end).

Mostly I just wanted to inspect Stasis.

[Albane]

Root lasting full duration once it lands, with no chance to break early, is huge bullshit. But, as stated, most of the server casters and so the majority of the server will enjoy this.

For those of us who want PvP to be fun, challenging, and balanced, we understand why root had resist checks periodically.

So no instant pumices and no chance to break out of root early. What do you do as a melee against a caster?

[jrwriter]

You guys cry about 1 root let's meles kill you when 95% server is casters lol

[Melveny]

No, but if you wanna keep believing that, go right ahead. Unlike Holocaust, I just want the best for the server. Noticing a root stick for 30 seconds through 5 melees beating me from 100% to dead is something worth bringing up, and not because it happened yesterday but because it happens fairly regularly (usually I'm on the other end).

Mostly I just wanted to inspect Stasis.

Except root did break, were you not able to zone into guk top? Sucks that root landed at the same time you were zoning, resulting in being rooted on the other side over halfway dead.

If your intentions are to say resists need adjustments, you should provide as much detail as possible.

Example: I castes 9 roots, 1 landed long enough for u to go to 70% to below 50%. at this point you took the opportunity to zone, root landed as you were zoning thus rooted on re other side.

The big part your neglecting to mention was TASH. So what was you mr again exactly?

[Darwoth]

We should be seeing more partials at 50, 60, 70 fire/cold resists

lol

[socialist]

The big part your neglecting to mention was TASH. So what was you mr again exactly?

90 buffed after tash.

Keep denying the problem because you benefit from it. It's right in line with your guild's habits. Remember when we met in Unrest and letsjoe's green charmed ghoul kept me rooted for like 3 minutes? Or maybe you weren't there. I'm trying to change that shit. You're trying to keep it in the game so you can use it as a crutch because your PvP accomplishments are utterly unimpressive.

Root broke because I took a DD of some kind. That's apparently the only way it can break on this server, and that's shit.

[fiegi]

Which Holocaust member pissed in this guy's wheaties - he's holding a big time grudge.

[Melveny]

90 buffed after tash.

Keep denying the problem because you benefit from it. It's right in line with your guild's habits. Remember when we met in Unrest and letsjoe's green charmed ghoul kept me rooted for like 3 minutes? Or maybe you weren't there. I'm trying to change that shit. You're trying to keep it in the game so you can use it as a crutch because your PvP accomplishments are utterly unimpressive.

Root broke because I took a DD of some kind. That's apparently the only way it can break on this server, and that's shit.

Do you even know whom you are talking to? I would suggest consulting with your guildmates before trying to comment on my "PvP accomplishments". You are not on my level and probably won't ever be.

Roll a cleric to 50 turn it a pvp class and toe to toe any and all classes and out joust all melee with devastating cleric DPS, then get back to me.

Let's not forget single handedly forcing entire raids of 30-40+ to LnS from 1 cleric.

Protip: don't engage 1v6 that has 3 people whom can root

[Fapinshower]

It all translates into a bunch of advantages for casters while melees get nothing, and are in fact a little worse off since the server has even more trouble calculating positioning and hitboxes than on live. For results, see the server's class distribution: 95% casters.

wahhh melees suck in classic wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. what the hell did you expect rolling a melee in classic? you know it's going to be brutal trying to fight people solo as a rogue. so basically you are crying because you think you should be able to attack a 1v6 group and get away/survive. you shoulda just pulled the plug like the rest of your guild does anytime we attack them. you probably would have had you noticed the root htat landed on you right as you zoned.


who is this socialist scrub anyway? you're a fucking melee in classic bro get used to it. once you're 50 shit will change. I was also chain rooting you on the other side so it wasn't just one root. Melee dmg also definitely breaks root often and you're a ruhtard if you think otherwise.

[Nirgon]

Which Holocaust member pissed in this guy's wheaties - he's holding a big time grudge.

When people don't have a strong guild roof over their head, they get pretty salty out in the rain.