Brusco`s Boastful Bellow Broken!

[xblade724]

Brusco`s Boastful Bellow (lvl 12 bard DD) is supposed to offer significant knockback! There is NO knockback at all!

This is the main reason this was useful in pvp -- in fact, probably our only useful pvp song until higher lvls ..

Please fix this ASAP, it's very important. It used to knockback enough to interrupt spells 100% from the movement it knocks you

EDIT: LUCY SOURCE BELOW!!
\/
\/

http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=704&setcookie=1
"Knockback: 1 [ft]"

^
^

[Darksinga]

I think the knockback is still there but it's so insignificant that it won't make a difference in pvp.

I was on a ZL and a bard casted the dd on me and I zoned. So literally it moves you .1 feet... I remember it being a lot bigger on live, but my "iirc's" dont really matter much, I just know the knockback on this is very very small atm.

[xblade724]

Yes -- the knockback on live classic was very dramatic. It's the entire reason I've been looking forward to 12 since it interrupts spells and doesnt allow people to hide behind the bank with me around in kelethin. Sorta destroyed my hopes and dreams. Please fix the knockback that was in classic eq

[Avatarcat]

Would love to see this fixed as well...I have a feeling there are going to be all kinds of little things that are going to effect pvp negatively. We just havn't found em yet=(

[xblade724]

Bump for great justice! This is the soul of a pvp bard! Should be an easy fix (I hope)

[Slave]

I can't believe I'm about to say this:

This song did have about a .5'-1' knockback component. However, it did not unfailingly interrupt spells in PvP, at least by Kunark.

What we have on Blue99, anyway, is a huge knockback-interrupting-spells component. I'm fairly certain that code is also on R99, meaning that if this song was updated to act in a Classic manner, the code that was put in for knockback-interrupts would make it OVERpowered, because it would do so every time.

What we need is for this song to have a base chance to interrupt spells of around 50%.

[xblade724]

Absolutely not -- bards are underpowered as hell at lower lvls when it's actually useful. It's really all we got.

Yes, it's significant knockback ... and the chance to interrupt spells should be the same as any knockback spell. You can easily avoid this by standing against a wall, especially in a corner. Or if you just resist the spell in general. There are countless alternatives to preventing this.

While you guys have pets stronger than warriors with constant root + dd's, we have our little 6 dmg DD with some knockback.

It was classic and should be 100% as intended. Bump for knockback fix.

To clarify, it is not a stun spell interrupt, it is merely a movement interrupt

Edit:

I am a level 12 bard and you know what I can do ? I can't use my only damage song because it's an AE and hits extra mobs, group members .. oh wait! I have my lvl 12 that does..... oh what, 6 dmg in pvp if they don't resist? Oh wait! Let me use my haste song for my weapon that does not nearly as much dmg as any other class .. hrm..

This is classic. We need this.

[xblade724]

SOURCE:
http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=704&setcookie=1
"Knockback: 1 [ft]"

Found the source on Lucy! Added this to OP

[Truth]

there is a knockback on this, but good luck getting it to interrupt shit with these generous channelling rules fails off around ~15 and completely worthless after ~20 id reckon

[xblade724]

There seems to be a lot of nerfs for bards while keeping the OP classes remaining OP. Bards were powerful on RZ classic, but not OP -- simply, balanced. Now we can't do anything because of all these random nerfs which are hopefully unintended bugs! Everyone keeps saying "not classic", so why are bards constantly getting the non-classic nerf bat? Keep this thread bumped for great justice!

Well, boastful bellow used to do enough push to generally interrupt spells most of the time unless they are standing against a corner

[Lazortag]

I seem to be doing just fine as a Bard.

bards were the shit even solo pk's. here, they are shit.

...I can still easily kill people solo, and have. A couple of small bugs doesn't make them "shit". Think of how much worse Bards are on every other emu server. My hunch is that you just don't know how to play a Bard. Here's a hint: if you get rooted, use the spell you got at level 22. Oh, you're not level 22 yet? Big surprise there.

There seems to be a lot of nerfs for bards while keeping the OP classes remaining OP.

A "nerf" implies that it's intentional. Find me another server where Bards work the way you expect them to. You don't control what the devs do with their time, stop flinging accusations at them when they don't fix minor bugs.

Bards are easily one of the most powerful classes on this server even with them not being 100% classic. You realize that some of the bard-related bugs favor Bards too, right? Like our invis song giving See Invis also. Or like our ae mez being ridiculously overpowered and not having a secondary resist check. Stop bitching and start being helpful.

[tsaC]

Minor bugs, yep not being able to interrupt casters with a song. No worries just use your L22 dispell song?? what.

I think you just like typing out that you think you're a fantastic bard or that you know all this crazy hidden knowledge in a 13 year old game. I personally don't waste my time bugging anything here, but was complaining about this POS song on the first day fighting people in WK/NK. There's no rhyme or reason to it, its just buggy as fuck.

I'd recommend just stop posting but it seems you're incapable of that, 2000+ post guy.

[xblade724]

Here's a hint: if you get rooted, use the spell you got at level 22. Oh, you're not level 22 yet? Big surprise there.


Yeah... level 22.. I'm level 12 - I prefer to be able to do *something* in pvp before then..



A "nerf" implies that it's intentional. Find me another server where Bards work the way you expect them to. You don't control what the devs do with their time, stop flinging accusations at them when they don't fix minor bugs.



Way to troll without even reading the next line, I clearly said only 1 line down, "Now we can't do anything because of all these random nerfs which are hopefully unintended bugs!" - I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt, sir. I'm waiting for a dev response on this thread.

[Lazortag]

Yeah... level 22.. I'm level 12 - I prefer to be able to do *something* in pvp before then..

Sorry, I was responding to Naez, who for some reason edited his post afterwards. Most of the meaner parts of my post were directed towards him. Sorry.

My problem is that this thread, like many bug threads, is less about the bug and more whining about how underpowered Bards are. Like I already said:

You realize that some of the bard-related bugs favor Bards too, right? ...

Bards are not unique in having some aspects of their class being less powerful than they were in classic, while other aspects are more powerful. The devs have a finite amount of time with which they can fix bugs, and won't always get to the bug you reported right away. Until it gets fixed, you just have to learn to adapt to it.

edit: here's a link from early 2001 about the knockback feature:

BELLOW MAKES CASTERS CRY IN DUELS, By Rokenn swiftsong - karana server (1/28/2001)

Bellow is a song that really shines in PvP/Duels vs casters. This song, in my experience, will always interrupt player character spell casting (due to the knockback effect of the song). I have successfully bellowed & interrupted casters 14 levels higher then me (30th lvl bard vs 44th lvl wizard). If you time it right they will never get a spell off :)

http://web.archive.org/web/20010911114300/http://eq.castersrealm.com/spells/spelldescriptions.asp?Id=1035&Page=2

and one from 2000 that heavily implies that the song had a knockback:

Submited by: Lukkydan On: 11/2/2000 3:06:25 PM Rank: worst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 best
I see how cool this song can be, and it's really a great way to get loads of xp when soloing. But I think Crayzie is kind of barking up the wrong tree. When you can brag about what a great PvP you are WITHOUT twinking your bard, then it's time to talk. You shouldn't trash talk about how well you can beat casters in PvP when you're twinked out. Not very fair, now is it?

http://web.archive.org/web/20010711212301/http://everlore.com/magic/Magic.asp?ID=166&mode=details&spname=Brusco%60s+Boastful+Bellow&type=

(the post he was responding to isn't available on the wayback machine)

[Truth]

My credentials warrant not a response, but I am an internet troll and the lure is too strong.

I seem to be doing just fine as a Bard. ...I can still easily kill people solo, and have. A couple of small bugs doesn't make them "shit". Think of how much worse Bards are on every other emu server. My hunch is that you just don't know how to play a Bard. Here's a hint: if you get rooted, use the spell you got at level 22. Oh, you're not level 22 yet? Big surprise there.

Could have fooled me.

I've played bards on "other emu servers", as well as live. Empires II, bards did not work at all. cohpvp1.0, bloods vs crips, VZ/TZ, et all they worked pretty much as they do here.

Boastful bellow should very reliably interrupt, it was basically bards version of slam (remember slam can miss). Here the tiny hiccup stops working at effective 80 caster channelling.

Rooted? Bro the only time I die rooted is when I have a train of mobs, which would not happen if selo pulses functioned correctly. Not too mention the level 22 dispell hits your entire group and requires you to equip a lute. Get real bro. Also I still reccomend having pumice hotkeyed post-22, not fun to miss notes when you are blinded.

A "nerf" implies that it's intentional. Find me another server where Bards work the way you expect them to. You don't control what the devs do with their time, stop flinging accusations at them when they don't fix minor bugs.

Bards are easily one of the most powerful classes on this server even with them not being 100% classic. You realize that some of the bard-related bugs favor Bards too, right? Like our invis song giving See Invis also. Or like our ae mez being ridiculously overpowered and not having a secondary resist check. Stop bitching and start being helpful.

um Invis song always gave see invis?? And AE Mez breaks way too early here, I'm talking in between spammed 3 second pulses, to even be considered useable, especially in any standard group situation with pets. I'd hate to see it have a "secondary resist check"

[xblade724]

Yes, invis song always gave see invis ...

Anyways, the point being, there's proof beyond anything -- obvious posts, lucy spell data, etc. Please fix this bug. I prefer to be useful BEFORE level 40+ (I like the lower level pvp because battles last longer).

Devs? Any comments?

[Truth]

AE mez is supposed to be 42 second mez. here youre lucky for 2s

level 22 doesnt make your worthwhile, giegue is just trolling and knows 22 group cancel magic is worthless in 80% of situations

[xblade724]

wow 42 seconds ?? What happened here

[Obeyance]

It seems like its functioning like the live version (single target + resist check during channeling[3s]). Honestly, in classic it was OP, then they broke it... denied it was broken till proven wrong, then they changed the spell all together at Luclin.

I mean, guys... Sometimes the updating things is needed. I love classic and all, but some of the stuff is tarded in pvp... PBAE mez on pvp? Mez your enemy/mob + your group/friends. IMHO, it was not intended for pvp, but the newer version is perfect for pvp. Devs, if your listening... I can deal with it being PBAE w/ resist check every 3 sec but at least make it so it doesnt hit party members please?

Also, lvl 12 nuke is supposed to have Knockback, that thread is correct w/ proof to boot. Should fix that. All this crying about bards being underpowered is right... What are we to do to the majority of players? Im happy with being Utility but throw us a bone here! Currently im not very helpful to anyone other than tappin tha boot and heal song...

[xblade724]

It seems like its functioning like the live version (single target + resist check during channeling[3s]). Honestly, in classic it was OP, then they broke it... denied it was broken till proven wrong, then they changed the spell all together at Luclin.

I mean, guys... Sometimes the updating things is needed. I love classic and all, but some of the stuff is tarded in pvp... PBAE mez on pvp? Mez your enemy/mob + your group/friends. IMHO, it was not intended for pvp, but the newer version is perfect for pvp. Devs, if your listening... I can deal with it being PBAE w/ resist check every 3 sec but at least make it so it doesnt hit party members please?

Also, lvl 12 nuke is supposed to have Knockback, that thread is correct w/ proof to boot. Should fix that. All this crying about bards being underpowered is right... What are we to do to the majority of players? Im happy with being Utility but throw us a bone here! Currently im not very helpful to anyone other than tappin tha boot and heal song...

I'd be happy with that too. What Live on RZ eventually did (when was it? Kunark era or velious era?) was made it so that pbaoe (NOT the 4 target AE's like invoke lightning-type spells) songs/spells do NOT effect your group members ... which makes this actually useful.

My only damage is this little AE, but can't even use it for pvp because I don't want to hit my allies. So I bust out my 6 dmg DD that's supposed to knockback .. nada. Hell, our dps as bards is so low anyways if they finally do get low, most of the time they can get away easily and just plug. Q_Q

[Dexter]

Bump for justice/response. I can confirm mes only last 2 secs or so if it lands at all. I have resisted one root since starting on the server. My mes get resisted 2 out of first 5 times i used it and when it did land it landed for 2 secs at most.

[Uthgaard]

It's a small push effect, not an interrupt or stun. There are separate effects in place for that if that effect is intended. As players level up, their channeling will go up, making it harder to be interrupted by push. There's nothing wrong with this song.

I see a lot of you swearing that things should be a certain way despite evidence that it should not. Insisting that you remember things a certain way in spite of the evidence to the contrary doesn't carry weight.

Giegue posted the patch notes about the see invis component, that's just about irrefutable. Bards never had a 42 second mez in classic, the pbaoe mez was in fact that short. It also had a secondary resist check bug keeping it from working very well, so if you can't mez anything with it, that sounds like it's working as intended. And a push value of 1 is on a lot of spells, without a stun component, none of which are guaranteed (or even likely) interrupts.

So all of the complaints here sound suitably appropriate.

[Lazortag]

Pretty much everything uthgaard said is correct. It's very telling that so many of you swear things like, "it ALWAYS gave see invis!!!" yet I've already shown this to be incorrect. Maybe you shouldn't rely so much on your memories; here is a very good example of when they aren't accurate.

But just to clarify about the mez..:

It also had a secondary resist check bug keeping it from working very well, so if you can't mez anything with it, that sounds like it's working as intended.

Anyone saying they "can't mez anything with it" is crazy; it's far more powerful now than it was in classic. The song works way too well against higher level mobs. At higher levels in classic it resisted frequently even on greens, whereas here you can reliably mez large amounts of level 40+ mobs with it. The duration of the mez is accurate I think (I'm pretty sure uthgaard got it from the kunark spdat), if you manually cast it over and over it never breaks early. Anyways, this is tangential to the topic.

[xblade724]

Make a new topic about mez. As for bellow, it DID give significant knockback! Yea there's channeling, but channeling does not always work. Especially before specialization levels+, this applies very much so. I enjoy lower end pvp and hope this is changed before I'm too high for it to matter. I level slow anyways (lvl 13 now) because of job/school.

ANYWAYS, the point, 1ft knockback that at lower lvls generously interrupts spells because of the movement - it definitely did on RZ. Also the fun stuff you can do with it, like knock people off bridges/into water if strategically used when close to an edge. \

Devs?

[Albane]

I seem to be doing just fine as a Bard.



...I can still easily kill people solo, and have. A couple of small bugs doesn't make them "shit". Think of how much worse Bards are on every other emu server. My hunch is that you just don't know how to play a Bard. Here's a hint: if you get rooted, use the spell you got at level 22. Oh, you're not level 22 yet? Big surprise there.


Wolfram, what strat are you using to "easily" solo people? Last time I saw you, you were blue to me, which means you don't have any of the useful PvP songs yet for dealing damage or interrupting casting.

If you get rooted, you can use your self dispel and make sure you remove every other buff you have going. But more than likely, the person who rooted you is going to cast root again. If you are kiting, they probably won't cast anything but root. If you have up your MR buffs, you better click them off, because they will be removed before the root. So now you have no buffs going and you spent 3 seconds removing root. Root is a 2 second casting time and you currently have no speed to escape and they have SoW.

EDIT: I now get what you mean by "easily kill people solo". You run around with a few other players to do all the damage, and the people you kill are solo.

[xblade724]

bump for staff reply

[Softcore PK]

Is there no knockback effect? It was always very slight and evil halfling druids would often channel heals and gates through it with ease.

[xblade724]

not always with ease. it was 1ft knockback. it was significant enough. Especially before specialization levels

[Albane]

Please add this knock back effect back into this spell. Bards have really been screwed on this PvP server, and we need some loving.

[Slave]

I feel this has been extremely well documented and should certainly be on the short list to be fixed, pending update.

[Uthgaard]

The knockback already is part of the spell.

[Softcore PK]

I haven't played a bard here so idk, but if it's not interrupting anything maybe there's an issue with channeling being too good?

[Uthgaard]

Wait for Kanras' edit to knockback effects to go live before saying for certain.

[xblade724]

Wait for Kanras' edit to knockback effects to go live before saying for certain.

OH! Possibly live next patch?! <3

[xblade724]

BUMP for bellow still not fixed! Please sirs

[Cast]

bards, r99, EHEHE

[xblade724]

STILL Broken!! PLEASE fix.. Disappointed not in the last 3 patches D:

If it was ninja fixed (haven't tested yet, but wasn't in patch notes), then <3

[xblade724]

Bump for dev reply

[Cast]

bards, LOL - r99

[Uthgaard]

Other people have posted that the knockback effect is working.

[Rust1d?]

I played a bard on live back in 1999 and his song always interupted casters