Sell me on ranger

[Zykdous]

Fairly new here, haven't had a character over 25 yet. I keep considering ranger, as the theme seems fun. However, I keep fearing that I'll be useless or unwanted as I level higher and higher. I think about it in terms of roles to fill in a group.

Tank: Paladin, Warrior, and SK all tank better than a ranger can, so I don't see me getting select for this role, esp with rangers lower defense skill cap.

DPS: Wizards, Monks, Rogues do better here, and there's plenty of them around.

Puller: Monk and bard here. Monk with their fd (plus better dps), and bards are faster and offer cc.

CC: Bard, Enchanter, mezzes > roots.

Maybe there's something coming with Velious that makes rangers fill a role better? Maybe I'm overlooking something? If anyone could sell me on ranger, I'd appreciate it, but I fear that I'm hitting a dead end.

[Lucidus]

Rolling ranger will cure you of your heterosexuality.

[knottyb0y]

Ranger is not a bad class, the problem is they do not specialize in much of anything. Play a Ranger if you want to play EQ on hard mode and have a sense of accomplishment when you kick ass and break the preconceptions that make rangers less desirable.

With that said they can solo some, they aren't terrible in groups, but like druids you have to really understand all your roles and how you can best help the group based on it's makeup.

[pickled_heretic]

ranger dps is a lot better than a wizard. for what it's worth, your dps in the grand scheme of things will be pretty good. monks and rogues, some warriors will beat you. you'll be better than everyone else. also, in outdoor zones, you will be the best puller in the game (maybe competing with bards, but they don't have harmony). indoors, your extra utility is basically limited to snare and root. before you get jolt, it can be very difficult to manage aggro, since root and snare both cause a lot of it. if you WANT aggro, on the other hand, it is very easy to acquire it.

ultimately it comes down to this: you have to play 100% better than most people to overcome the 40% exp stigma.

[Atmas]

Play the class you have fun with. That is what is really the most important.

I'm not really big on Rangers and imo they don't really start to rock out until SoL, so it's up in the air if you will ever see their real potential. However I can think of some good points: They have good versatility and a good ranger can make a difference in a group. Their class specific weapons are pretty cheap. Perhaps most importantly, gear drops are random so regardless of how heavy guilds recruit Rangers their gear will drop. Ranger drops aren't in high competition.

[Cyclone]

Not sure if your asking someone to sell you a account right out or want someone to convince you to roll a ranger. If you want someone to sell you a account your in the wrong Thread section and highly doubt you could afford a account if you have never gone past 25.

If you are asking someone to convince you to roll a ranger, no one can do that, roll one and stick with it to find out if you like it. Seems to me you have not taken any type of class very far to see if you are comfortable with it so I suggest you pick just one and stick with it to at least 50.

Ranger do have some skills that are majorly useful in end game from what I have seen, one being Track. Yes I know others have track as well but from what I am told ranger track is far more effective than any other class. Low levels rangers make ideal tanks, when a group can not find one.

As I said, you must play them to find out what you like, and I do not suggest buying one because if you do you will be useless due to not having the experience in that class.

[Atmas]

ranger dps is a lot better than a wizard. for what it's worth, your dps in the grand scheme of things will be pretty good. monks and rogues, some warriors will beat you. you'll be better than everyone else. also, in outdoor zones, you will be the best puller in the game (maybe competing with bards, but they don't have harmony). indoors, your extra utility is basically limited to snare and root. before you get jolt, it can be very difficult to manage aggro, since root and snare both cause a lot of it. if you WANT aggro, on the other hand, it is very easy to acquire it.

ultimately it comes down to this: you have to play 100% better than most people to overcome the 40% exp stigma.

Ranger group dps is better than Wizards. Definitely not the case for boss dps. On the other stuff I agree.

[Fazlazen]

- ranger tracking is amazing. best to pull roaming dragons in large outdoor zones imho.

- rangers are great outdoor pullers with harmony

- ranger dps is comparable to that of a warrior, but well behind rogues and monks. (talking melee DPS)

- ranger tanking is Ok in group situation usually if you can have a shaman or an enchanter slowing.

- ranger get very good DPS for a short amount of time in velious when they get the discipline trueshot (long refresh on this discipline, so saved for boss fight)

- If the server never incorporates Luclin aspects, you will never get Endless quiver, which made rangers pretty awesome at that point, often topping melee DPS charts or if not right behind rogues.

[Vondra]

While I can't recommend rangers, in my experience they're probably the best fit in the tank slot actually (in single group content of course).

In the dps slot, well they're not terrible at dps but it's just bringing the group a hybrid penalty...and in exchange the group gets someone not quite as good at dps as the standard dps classes.

In the tank slot though, they have the means to keep agro with various spells, but are dealing a bit more damage than the other tanks with snap agro spells. Long as your group has competent CC and your targets are slowed, the survivability is fine.

Isn't optimum, but I think the ranger brings the group down less by subbing as the tank than subbing as dps.


In reality though, end result is you have a melee class that has problems finding groups...but without the means to solo well while LFG which is no good. Rangers CAN solo xp, but it isn't something you'll want to rely on, to be sure.

[loopholbrook]

- ranger tracking is amazing. best to pull roaming dragons in large outdoor zones imho.

- rangers are great outdoor pullers with harmony

- ranger dps is comparable to that of a warrior, but well behind rogues and monks. (talking melee DPS)

- ranger tanking is Ok in group situation usually if you can have a shaman or an enchanter slowing.

- ranger get very good DPS for a short amount of time in velious when they get the discipline trueshot (long refresh on this discipline, so saved for boss fight)

- If the server never incorporates Luclin aspects, you will never get Endless quiver, which made rangers pretty awesome at that point, often topping melee DPS charts or if not right behind rogues.

This is perfect.

[pickled_heretic]

In the dps slot, well they're not terrible at dps but it's just bringing the group a hybrid penalty...and in exchange the group gets someone not quite as good at dps as the standard dps classes.


standard dps classes? there are only two, three really if you count warriors. wizards, mages, druids etc are all subpar pure dps when compared to rangers. is everyone eating a 6-7% added penalty spread out to everyone worth it? i don't know, probably not, but to say they are supar dps is pretty lame considering only two classes really beat them.

[Vondra]

standard dps classes? there are only two, three really if you count warriors. wizards, mages, druids etc are all subpar pure dps when compared to rangers. is everyone eating a 6-7% added penalty spread out to everyone worth it? i don't know, probably not, but to say they are supar dps is pretty lame considering only two classes really beat them.

This is true, however there's enough rogues and monks floating around (esp monks) that the fact it's only 2 classes doesn't really hinder things much.

[pickled_heretic]

This is true, however there's enough rogues and monks floating around (esp monks) that the fact it's only 2 classes doesn't really hinder things much.

have you tried to lvl a new character at all recently? in most groups 1-50 you take what you can get. if i could run every exp group with 3 rogues and a sk i would. but that never happens.

[Vondra]

have you tried to lvl a new character at all recently? in most groups 1-50 you take what you can get. if i could run every exp group with 3 rogues and a sk i would. but that never happens.

Yep, a ranger can always be a warm body. Of course that doesn't really speak well for the class though. Their LFG tag basically reads "Are you desperate enough for me yet?"

At any rate, feel free to put them in the dps slot if no monks or rogues are around. My intent was just to illustrate that I think they are a better fit in the tank slot than the dps slot.

[Lucidus]

have you tried to lvl a new character at all recently? in most groups 1-50 you take what you can get.

This is exactly what I thought every time I've invited a ranger to join a pickup group.

Snark-free advice: before leveling a Ranger past 20, try out Shaman and on of the tanking hybrids (SK/Pal). Shaman has as much utility as a ranger, can solo successfully, and is highly desirable for leveling. The hybrid tanks lose some utility compared to the ranger, but are much more successful in the tank role.

If you decide that Ranger is your thing, get to it. But prepare to be underwhelmed at the end game.

[Zykdous]

Thanks for the replies.
End game thinking is always my problem sticking with a class, "Will I be useful at level 60?". As for playing the class I enjoy, I won't enjoy any class if I cant' find a group. And based on the replies of rangers LFG, finding that group doesn't seem likely to happen :/

[Diggles]

Rangers aren't worth it until AAs. but OH MY GOD HEADSHOT AND ENDLESS QUIVER

[Xanthias]

Ranger is not a bad class, the problem is they do not specialize in much of anything. Play a Ranger if you want to play EQ on hard mode and have a sense of accomplishment when you kick ass and break the preconceptions that make rangers less desirable.

Very true.

- ranger tracking is amazing. best to pull roaming dragons in large outdoor zones imho.

- rangers are great outdoor pullers with harmony

- ranger dps is comparable to that of a warrior, but well behind rogues and monks. (talking melee DPS)

- ranger tanking is Ok in group situation usually if you can have a shaman or an enchanter slowing.

- ranger get very good DPS for a short amount of time in velious when they get the discipline trueshot (long refresh on this discipline, so saved for boss fight)

- If the server never incorporates Luclin aspects, you will never get Endless quiver, which made rangers pretty awesome at that point, often topping melee DPS charts or if not right behind rogues.

Accurate...

In the dps slot, well they're not terrible at dps but it's just bringing the group a hybrid penalty...and in exchange the group gets someone not quite as good at dps as the standard dps classes.

In the tank slot though, they have the means to keep agro with various spells, but are dealing a bit more damage than the other tanks with snap agro spells. Long as your group has competent CC and your targets are slowed, the survivability is fine.

Isn't optimum, but I think the ranger brings the group down less by subbing as the tank than subbing as dps.


In reality though, end result is you have a melee class that has problems finding groups...but without the means to solo well while LFG which is no good. Rangers CAN solo xp, but it isn't something you'll want to rely on, to be sure.

Here is the issue... the omg 40% xp penalty... if you have a group that is constantly killing and xp is rolling it doesn't matter. Get a solid group of people and you are golden... the other thing is, if you are in a group and having fun, because I know this is scary what I'm bout to say... EQ is a GAME, and games are supposed to be fun, does that penalty matter?

Now negative, does sitting for an hour or more, with LFG on suck, yes it does. The preconception that rangers are worthless until SoL etc bites, will I play another class. Nope. Simply because for all its faults, rangers for me are the most fun to play.

[Diggles]

Yeah, just stick to the most fun class. As much as I insult and make fun of rangers, I mained one for about 5 years and it was fun as hell.

[Vondra]

Very true.



Accurate...



Here is the issue... the omg 40% xp penalty... if you have a group that is constantly killing and xp is rolling it doesn't matter. Get a solid group of people and you are golden... the other thing is, if you are in a group and having fun, because I know this is scary what I'm bout to say... EQ is a GAME, and games are supposed to be fun, does that penalty matter?

Now negative, does sitting for an hour or more, with LFG on suck, yes it does. The preconception that rangers are worthless until SoL etc bites, will I play another class. Nope. Simply because for all its faults, rangers for me are the most fun to play.

Might be fun for the ranger, isn't fun for the rest of the group.

Here's something to consider: If it was fun for the group to have a ranger and not perform as well, people would invite them often.

[Diggles]

Might be fun for the ranger, isn't fun for the rest of the group.

Here's something to consider: If it was fun for the group to have a ranger and not perform as well, people would invite them often.

Here's something else to consider: People who don't have fun on their character probably aren't going to be very efficient or caring. I'll take a ranger that has fun over an enchanter who wants to commit suicide and does nothing

[Vondra]

Here's something else to consider: People who don't have fun on their character probably aren't going to be very efficient or caring. I'll take a ranger that has fun over an enchanter who wants to commit suicide and does nothing

So would I. I'd take anyone over someone that's not at least reasonably efficient. That's outside the scope of rangers though and isn't really a defense of the class.

On a neutral level, there isn't extra fun added to the group by putting a ranger in. Can you play and have fun with a ranger in the group? Naturally. If your buddy is a ranger and you like grouping with him, by all means bring him along.

Presumably though, you can have fun playing with all sorts of different people, such as all your non ranger friends as well. Thus when there's a few people around that a person is neutral on (the players themselves, not the class), there's no real incentive to take a ranger.

It isn't as though all rangers instantly make great social groupmates you love having around, while all the people that get invited instead are the scum of the earth that you can't stand but are grouping with to get slightly more exp.

It's a design flaw by the creators, they should have given rangers more. But they didn't.

[YendorLootmonkey]

If you want to play it safe, wait until Velious to start a ranger... particularly after the patch where they get Panic Animal at level 22. Then, if you can't get a group, you can go wherever and fear/snare/melee animals solo and it's not so bad.

At 60, weaponshield disc can be a raid-saver, and some tank transition strats might heavily rely on it for solid aggro to give time for CH rotations to start landing on the MT without immediately getting clerics wiped, but other than that... it's a fun class to play due to versatility that isn't necessarily appreciated by a group just looking to min-max.

[Awwalike]

wasn't weaponshield wayyyyyyy later? thought rangers here would never see it.

[YendorLootmonkey]

wasn't weaponshield wayyyyyyy later? thought rangers here would never see it.

Hybrids get disciplines in Velious.

[Rusl]

nope, we get it and trueshot plus a few other random bs discs in velious

[Awwalike]

that's what's up!

[Pringles]

Rangers get the most convincing Feign Death, reason enough to roll one.

[Diggles]

So convincing the server is fooled and sends them to bind!

[Rusl]

Here's a how to video on raiding as a Ranger. Highlight around the 1:40 mark.

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also straight from the TR manual on how to maximize your potential as a Ranger
Step 1. Take DT
Step 2. Consent & ask for res
Step 3. ...
Step 4. Go back to Step 1

at least until Velious then maybe Perun will appreciate me...

[Pringles]

This is exactly what we required of our rangers on live, they were indeed useless until endless quiver :(

[Muchew]

Why does everyone keep saying Endless Quiver? It's not like you can't just summon up a bunch of arrows before hand.

Isn't Archery Mastery 3 what really increased the DPS?

[socialist]

Well, Endless Quiver allowed you to use the best arrows in the game rather than shitty summoned arrows, and it let you actually use archery as your primary source of DPS without requiring you to spend 30% of your time summoning new arrows. AM3 provided the bulk of the damage increase while EQ made it realistic to DPS with a bow, considering the fact that you'd otherwise burn through a stack of arrows in sometimes as little as 20-30 seconds depending on your gear and buffs.

[Diggles]

I want a monk cleric hybrid.

[oldhead]

This is exactly what we required of our rangers on live, they were indeed useless until endless quiver :(


To me a ranger aint a ranger until AA's come out.

I'd roll a ranger so quick if I could be a bow ranger with EQ.

[briare]

1. complete aggro control. at lvl fifty-five acquire aggro from anyone at any time with lvl 9 snare and fast casting lvl 9 flame lick...then decrease and step out of aggro at any time with lvl fifty-five jolt, or velious cinder jolt. warriors and paladins who see a ranger successfully do this will lose their shit and cry imbalance.

2. velious discaplines become raid useful:

- trueshot is a x2 max bow damage with significantly raised hit potential and lots of crits, it outscored rogue damage for the minute it was alive, which is the minute you need it on a boss kill. i remember raids where a bank of rangers stood at range and destroyed the target..crits between 500 - 1000 spamming the screen. sickness.

- weaponshield is 15 seconds of invulnerability (patched to 20 seconds sometime later) and it would become a great raid mob pulling method. ranger pulls, weap shield up, main tank agenerates aggro while clerics begin ch chain...weap sheild drops and ranger either drops aggro with jolt, or just dies, your loot share will be the same. YendorLootmonkey already stated this. one widely used classic example is on statue of rallos zek. he was famous for destroying clerics as they began their ch chain, until the weap shield strat took off. it was also a fantastic utility for any group that get a chance at a higher level spawn. ranger pull then weap shield up while slowers and debuffers did their work.

3. tracking is like crack. it's better than TV. look up pyzjn in the phone book and give her a call. also has a practical application for raid guilds looking for a target. ranger with 200 skill in tracking pairs with a porter and rapidly hit zone after zone. a few rangers hitting zone like this can quickly surmise what spawns are up and the guild can decide on a target, mobilize, get loot.

4. lastly, a group with a shaman as main healer is special, their skills and your skills are a perfect compliment.
- skin like nature stacks with their HP buffs.
- ranger damage shield and shaman potion damage shields stack for a wicked 30+ damage shield.
- shaman and ranger dots stack nicely.
- shaman will cann like a boss and ranger finally has a use for their whimpy heals, lvl fifty-seven greater healing is like turbo regen for a shaman. you won't be using mana for anything else, so every few pulls you can dump it on the shaman.
- skin like nature has a 2hp regen, regen is crack for shaman.
-ranger can pull with snare and sham has time to drop magic debuffs and slow before it reaches the group...and since ranger is the complete aggro control...the shaman doesn't get the shit wacked out of himself with slows and dots like they will with warrior or pally tanks.
- multiple pulls are managible without a chanter. ranger maintains snare and root while shaman slows and dots. poor mans crowd control that has legit advantages over mez. one legitimacy being that the ranger can actually move mobs around and that sham dots will have them softened up by the time it's their turn for the group to liquidate it.

other things worth note

kunark era ranger only silver swiftblade which is a 16/24 2hs, sells for 300pp and is completely over powered for classic content at lower levels. power level yourself.

fun and rewarding spells to use at higher levels: wolf form at forty-nine, greater wolf at fifty-six, chloroplast, lvl fifty-nine skin like nature is a no joke lvl forty-nine druid buff.

calm animal and enduring breath makes rangers the best kedge pullers.

good alingment combined with cammo and sneak skill make rangers able to pretty much go anywhere.

i rolled ranger in back in '99 by pretty much just cluelessly reading descriptions and choosing the class that i felt i identified with the most. didn't know anything about hybrid penaltys, weap skill caps, that chain armor sucked, or about mandatory death touches on pof raids, lol. but on this restart here in proj 99 a couple weeks ago guess what...re-rolled ranger again. love it, having fun doing it all over again. lvl 11 atm. shooting for 60 before velious.





edit for punctuation

[Lucidus]

1. complete aggro control.

2. velious discaplines become raid useful:

3. tracking is like crack. it's better than TV.

4. lastly, a group with a shaman as main healer is special, their skills and your skills are a perfect compliment.

other things worth note



edit for punctuation

This guide has granted me a new-found understanding of the struggle that all Rangers face.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Briare... look me up on your ranger in EC for buffs