What could make the PVP better?

[Boogeyman]

Hi All,

This is my first post on these boards, and I just joined the P1999 family for the new Red server. I played on Rallos for about 4 years (1999-2003) and never actually leveled a character past 29 because the PVP was so much fun.

In the interest of making the server even better, it would be nice to see how the PVP could be adjusted to further enhance the PVP experience.

*Please do not flame others ideas, the goal is to put out stuff for the devs to get extra ideas and offer constructive criticism. If you don't think it will work, give a logical reason*

My idea is simple: Limited Item Loot

Now before everyone says Item loot hurts server population, and we already had the discussion before the server went live let me explain my idea and thinking.

I agree Item Loot carte blanche will hurt the population. There is nothing worse than losing that item you just camped for 9 hours. I'd wanna kill myself too. But, in classic era, most of those items are for people level 40+. So low level item loot removes the concern of griefing to get great gear from somebody who spent alot of time camping spawns in Guk and Sol B etc. But if you camped those areas long enough to have extra gear for alts, then you really don't need those items, so losing one in PVP would be the end of the world.

What I would love to see is item loot for characters 1-40 and here is why:
1. Most toons in these ranges are not super geared, so losing an item would not be devistating, but the joy of taking one would be fantastic.
2. Creates a market for alternate character pvp rather than just main PVP. If history follows a similar path, eventually the main body of players will hit end game level and pvp will only be between the top few players as they will be the ones with the gear to compete. With limited item loot for lower characters, you would see items like 55+hp rings on lower level characters which are fantastic to loot.
3. Limited loot could even be to jewlery only. Earings/Rings/Neck?

I mention all this for one reason. I have a sweet level 5 rogue right now, and I totally pwned some newb named Good (lvl 2) yesterday.:) Caught him with his pants down medding with 30% health. It felt great to get that sweet kill and loot his 700 copper. But could you imagine if I had the chance to take his nice patchwork hat. That would be epic. I would donate to the server if some sort of early level 1-20, 1-30 item loot could be trialed.

Just my input, still curious to see what others would like to see.

[oldfish]

A voluntary item loot system.

You turn in some item at the tome of discord guy, he "turns on" item loot.

You can now loot and be looted by others who have also been turned on by the priest of discord.

[Szeth]

The whole idea behind "if you do this I'll donate" is why we have conspiracy theories about the GM's being involved in RMT.

Do not try to bribe Rogean, if you enjoy his server donate. If you want to throw out demands and a hiss fit -- don't.

[Boogeyman]

The whole idea behind "if you do this I'll donate" is why we have conspiracy theories about the GM's being involved in RMT.

Do not try to bribe Rogean, if you enjoy his server donate. If you want to throw out demands and a hiss fit -- don't.

This was not a hey, do this and I will pay you comment. It was a shit if we had item loot, that is something I would pay for it. It has been so long since I have seen it. I like the server alot already, would just like it more with loot.

[Truth]

server needs item loot

[xblade724]

Item loot is what really prevents spawn rushes. Exp deaths is doing the opposite and provoking hardcore corpse camping -- come back and you are god damn defenseless to someone to kill you while naked while on a corpse run!

And guess what happens when you spawn, you are OUT OF MANA! How the hell can anyone bind rush with no spells memmed and out of mana, and if pet class you're screwed again .. "What about the classes without mana!" Guess what, the classes without mana are NAKED and cannot do shit to you. They gonna punch you to death? Even monks are not that great completely naked. At least they stand a slight tiny tingle of a chance from corpse camping.

So far, every exp death i've seen is generally from a 2nd kill. That's pretty common, a single corpse camp then disperse. That's 2 exp deaths, where the 2nd is completely defenseless and this server made this possible.

Bring back RZ loot and turn off this idiotic exp deaths idea

[Fists]

Rallos Zek was an amazing server. I get sad everytime I kill someone here and just get their damn coin. Unfortunately I don't think the switch will ever just turn on and we'll have item loot, although making the tome of discord enable item loot could work (although I have no idea how the coding for that would work).

It's unfortunate for those people who never experienced item loot. The OP is correct in the sense that if you're leveling your new character and are broke, its both pretty meaningless to lose a piece, as well as unbelievably rewarding to gain something. 1-40 could be a reasonable idea in the sense that if you do have a twink in those levels it's definitely more exciting to be able to reap the rewards of that too. High level pvp consists of half of your armor being no drop, and if you suck bad enough to not bag your bcg then you deserve to lose it.

[Tassador]

fuck it! lets do Item Loot (including your bags so don't hide your shit and be naked), Corpse Camping, Train on purpose, Remove guards, dots death should count as PVE so you lose more exp, remove "/petition" thats for children and everything else that makes you feel somewhat safe in this game. Its a game lets do it like hardcore diablo2 if YOU DIE ONCE REROLL!

[Knuckle]

I dont know what would be better than coin + xp loss. System is fine.

[Truth]

fuck it! lets do Item Loot (including your bags so don't hide your shit and be naked), Corpse Camping, Train on purpose, Remove guards, dots death should count as PVE so you lose more exp, remove "/petition" thats for children and everything else that makes you feel somewhat safe in this game. Its a game lets do it like hardcore diablo2 if YOU DIE ONCE REROLL!

I realize you just wnated to argue a slippery slope but great ideas overall

[Lovely]

Item loot is bad, not enough bank space ;/

[SearyxTZ]

I actually agree that the exp loss pvp system sucks, and I don't think a lot of deep thought went into it tbh.


A lot of game design philosophy is centered around "Is this fun for the player?".

So when you die in PvP, it's going to suck no matter what - that's a given. There's a penalty for dying, and there should be.

The important thing here is does the player who won feel good about his reward? Is it fun and satisfying for him?

Coin loot always worked because it was a little satisfying to get it (icing on the cake, if you will), but it also wasn't too harsh on the player who died.

What does EXP loss do though? The player who killed you doesn't care. He's not getting anything there. I don't care if you lose exp when I killed you. I do care if I get some new item - that's awesome. I care if I get coin.

I think it's poor design and I doubt many players would defend it because everybody hates it when it happens to them, and nobody cares when they cause it to others.

[pickled_heretic]

I actually agree that the exp loss pvp system sucks, and I don't think a lot of deep thought went into it tbh.


A lot of game design philosophy is centered around "Is this fun for the player?".

So when you die in PvP, it's going to suck no matter what - that's a given. There's a penalty for dying, and there should be.

The important thing here is does the player who won feel good about his reward? Is it fun and satisfying for him?

Coin loot always worked because it was a little satisfying to get it (icing on the cake, if you will), but it also wasn't too harsh on the player who died.

What does EXP loss do though? The player who killed you doesn't care. He's not getting anything there. I don't care if you lose exp when I killed you. I do care if I get some new item - that's awesome. I care if I get coin.

I think it's poor design and I doubt many players would defend it because everybody hates it when it happens to them, and nobody cares when they cause it to others.

that's why i really don't like the exp loss. pvp should be, at worst, a zero sum game: for everything lost someone should gain something. the pvp system here is a negative sum game: over time, with enough encounters, people will only lose without gaining anything.

it's lame, it discourages pvp. the time sink of dying and looting and medding up is already substantial in eq, there's no reason for the exp loss. if the winner gained the experience the loser lost it would make more sense to me.

[Boogeyman]

I'd like to hear if the dev's could actually implement a level 1-40 item loot, not item loot above concept or if the coding would be nuts.

[xblade724]

In terms of item loot, I think many people don't understand how item loot really works. It's so much less costly than exp death. You realize how many exceptions there are ?

* If you are wearing no drop gear, guess what, they can't take it!
* Your beloved sword, shield, bows and expensive arrows? Can't take it!
* Containers and anything inside of them - can't take it!

So what ends up happening is people mostly have 2 sets of gear: pvp gear and prestige gear (or cocky bastard gear, is another name).

You wear your no drop gear when in a dangerous place, simply, and your prestige gear when you are sure you will not die, too rich to care, or sometimes..dumb.

And what happens when you get attacked? You put your items in a bag!! What happens at higher lvls? MOST YOUR ITEMS ARE NO DROP!!! So where are the complaints? When I played on rallos, i barely lost anything if you play smart. What sucks tho is being perma-blind ... if item loot, really need to resist blind more :P or have to do x% of dmg - sucks when they just hit you once and you die without enough time to prepare

"Item loot is bad - not enough bank space"

Errr...this..is VERY true.. :/

[Rust1d?]

I like the population 300+. Item loot probably kills the server. It killed every other server.

[Fists]

It killed every other server? Rallos zek was merged with other pvp servers on live into Zek because Tallon had a significantly lower population and sullons was slightly lower. Come on now, Rallos zek was actually the 2nd most populated server until LDON as well, quit posting shit you know nothing about.

[gloinz]

that's why i really don't like the exp loss. pvp should be, at worst, a zero sum game: for everything lost someone should gain something. the pvp system here is a negative sum game: over time, with enough encounters, people will only lose without gaining anything.

it's lame, it discourages pvp. the time sink of dying and looting and medding up is already substantial in eq, there's no reason for the exp loss. if the winner gained the experience the loser lost it would make more sense to me.

the exp loss is .5 % its 20 pvp deaths = 1 pve death

its so small its pretty irrelevant duno why ya'll crying

servers already mega bluebie in terms of penalty's for dying/rules lets not bluebify it some more

[gloinz]

It killed every other server? Rallos zek was merged with other pvp servers on live into Zek because Tallon had a significantly lower population and sullons was slightly lower. Come on now, Rallos zek was actually the 2nd most populated server until LDON as well, quit posting shit you know nothing about.

not that there was item loot at that point everyone had no drop so whats your point

[Doodle]

Stop ye bitchin', yes a swords man through ye heart is gunna hurt if he does it more than once. Put on ye man britches and deal with it.

PVP be fine!

[Fists]

Gloinz you give me the impression that you either cannot read, or choose not to. I'll let you re-read what I said and correct your own mistake though.

[racist]

item loot!!!

[gloinz]

Gloinz you give me the impression that you either cannot read, or choose not to. I'll let you re-read what I said and correct your own mistake though.

my point for you mr slow man was that there was no item loot thus no penalty for dying thus its as good as a blue server

especially considering if you pvped on rallos you were gang fucked by bluebie "antis" lol

[Lovely]

PVP would be a lot better if Holocaust actually PVP'd on this server. They boosted themselves so damn hard but I'm not seeing shit in game sadly. WRU PVPZ??

[gloinz]

PVP would be a lot better if Holocaust actually PVP'd on this server. They boosted themselves so damn hard but I'm not seeing shit in game sadly. WRU PVPZ??

ya pvp aint gunna happen for a long while xp so slow

[pickled_heretic]

the exp loss is .5 % its 20 pvp deaths = 1 pve death

its so small its pretty irrelevant duno why ya'll crying

servers already mega bluebie in terms of penalty's for dying/rules lets not bluebify it some more

you didn't bother to read my post either apparently.

[oldfish]

the exp loss is .5 % its 20 pvp deaths = 1 pve death

its so small its pretty irrelevant duno why ya'll crying

servers already mega bluebie in terms of penalty's for dying/rules lets not bluebify it some more

I havent tested this but im pretty sure this is wrong, like totally wrong. Its something like 1/5 - 1/8 of a pve death.

Xp loss is a bad idea cuz it makes people run from pvp in general.

PVP would be a lot better if Holocaust actually PVP'd on this server. They boosted themselves so damn hard but I'm not seeing shit in game sadly. WRU PVPZ??

We took Guk a bunch of us and instead of fighting they all logged or plugged. Im 100% sure this isnt related to xp loss.

[SearyxTZ]

the exp loss is .5 % its 20 pvp deaths = 1 pve death

its so small its pretty irrelevant


So why is it in?

You can make a pretty good argument for item loot, but the pvp exp loss thing is dumb + nobody likes it.

[gloinz]

you didn't bother to read my post either apparently.

like i said theres virtually no xp loss so stop crying kthx

[gloinz]

So why is it in?

You can make a pretty good argument for item loot, but the pvp exp loss thing is dumb + nobody likes it.

so we dont have a total wow environment currently ingame where you just run back to your corpse in ghostform and resume pvp until the other person gets bored of destroying you and goes somewhere else

[SearyxTZ]

I TOTALLY JUST CAUSED THAT GUY TO LOSE SOME EXP, YESSSS THEY MIGHT HAVE TO KILL AN EXTRA 5 BATS NOW *fist pump*

KEEP UR COIN AND ITEMS THIS IS THE REAL DEAL

[SearyxTZ]

so we dont have a total wow environment currently ingame where you just run back to your corpse in ghostform and resume pvp until the other person gets bored of destroying you and goes somewhere else

Fortunately this isn't WoW where you can ghost to your corpse in 30 seconds.

[gloinz]

Fortunately this isn't WoW where you can ghost to your corpse in 30 seconds.

ya its eq where u can bind anywhere as a caster (90% of server probably) and b back at your corpse in 15 secounds

[Truth]

i just warp to mine

[oldfish]

so we dont have a total wow environment currently ingame where you just run back to your corpse in ghostform and resume pvp until the other person gets bored of destroying you and goes somewhere else

Instead of having a ghost server environment where you dont get to pvp cuz everyone left except the "im so hardc0rz"?

Cuz pvp isnt happening?

ya its eq where u can bind anywhere as a caster (90% of server probably) and b back at your corpse in 15 secounds

Right like anybody is going to keep doing that after getting tracked and bind fucked for an hour or 2

[Knuckle]

WoW clearly has solved these issues for you, I'd suggest trying one of their private servers for like minded players.

[racist]

I just wanna hurt people.

[john_savage1982]

I just wanna hurt people.

Basically. I would suspect people would WANT to play EQ Classic PvP because of how hardcore it is. I really don't understand why GMs care to establish rules to intervene in player disputes when the sort of issues they would be addressing have been solved in modern MMORPGs via the game mechanics themselves. If you want care-bear features so badly then why do you choose to play Classic Everquest? Nostalgia? Sorry...you can't have your cake and eat it too.

I say implement item loot, coin loot, remove pvp xp loss, and remove all rules governing character behavior. Classic PvP Everquest. Nothing more. Nothing less.

[xblade724]

"ya its eq where u can bind anywhere as a caster (90% of server probably) and b back at your corpse in 15 secounds"

You are nub as hell, what are you going to do once you get back to your corpse in 15 seconds as a caster and you are flat OOM? You are bound to die again if you don't spend 10 minutes getting mana back.

For anyone QQing about "Oh gawd they are gonna bind rush me!", the concern is more about getting corpse camped! Item loot would prevent corpse camping because there's nothing to get, just running oom and back to corpse which is grief enough. YOU GO OOM WHEN YOU DIE lol what are they gonna do? If melee, they gonna come fist you (pun intended)? If a monk, ehh, there are monks on this server? :P

[Smilkers]

ITEM LOOT.
PLEASE.
This is a PVP server, right???

Such a great way to encourage player combat... it makes no sense to me why this aspect of the game is not included. Looting an item off a player you just killed is BADASS. What better incentive is there to attack someone?

I couldn't give two craps about sending their XP back 1% or w/e minute amount it is.

As others have mentioned, you just have to be smart or keep no-drop gear on... not that tough...

PLEASE !
ITEM LOOT !

[SearyxTZ]

Straight item loot is too hardcore for a lot of the players here


I really liked the idea that one of the staff people put forth (Rogean?) which was item loot for bagged/inventory items only

[Lovely]

I love item loot, but I don't wanna make half the server quit so I rather not have it.

[Boogeyman]

That is why I am for a Limited Item loot structure. Loot up to a certain level, or certain items (jewlery would be fair) leave visible armour. But something.

[Dfn]

Straight item loot is too hardcore for a lot of the players here


I really liked the idea that one of the staff people put forth (Rogean?) which was item loot for bagged/inventory items only

I like this.

[georgie]

this is what happens when you give a bluebie a kill...