My Idea to Keep the Server Up

[choklo]

We have over 3000 people registered to this forum. I'd guess at least half of them are playing the emulater. If we all contributed a mere $10 tomorrow, we'd have more than enough money to buy DDOS attack prevention equipment. You know this type of thing won't go away anytime soon. There will be countless angry, banned, copycats, antisocial (etc.) people out there that will want to do this again.
I'm personally donating $25 tonight. It's more then worth it to keep our game up. How long are you willing to let the server stay down due to some sad nerd, who is keeping us all from the game we love?

Anyone disagree?

[VincentVolaju]

Even though I am only like level 9, I wouldn't mind donating to the server if in fact donating would fix the problem. But really, how is there anyway to tell how much this "DDOS prevention equipment" would cost, and if it would even really work or not?

[choklo]

Not everybody can or will donate. But $10 is not alot individually. How much do you spend on pizza, coffee, eating out, other games or entertainment? You can't buy much with $10 today. It's probably not a great sacrafice for most of us for unlimited free EQ classic that can't be found anywhere else.

I'd also like to know how much the equipment would cost. I'm sure it works, as all the current MMO's are able to withstand this type of attack generally.

[url0st]

id donate too, be great if we had an idea of how much is needed to prevent this, then people could see the exact dollar amount to when they get to start playing. Could use one of those donation goal meter things.

[choklo]

id donate too, be great if we had an idea of how much is needed to prevent this, then people could see the exact dollar amount to when they get to start playing. Could use one of those donation goal meter things.

I'd bet that would work well. People are so freekin addicted to this game, I could see that meter filling up as quickly as the exp bar in lower guk.

[VincentVolaju]

Yeah it be nice if a dev. could comment on this and let us know if this is even an option for them.

[url0st]

Yes dev response would be awesome. If this is a nominal amount for this size of a community we should get donations going asap.

[choklo]

I have a ton of respect and gratitude to the devs for doing the project, but I fear that they are reluctant to give us monetary numbers. I think the whole idea of discussing money in detail is a touchy subject.

Personally I wish they would tell us at least an idea how much they need. Somebody could then make an EQ exp bar that needs to be filled up to satisfy the cost. I'd love that and surely donate.

[url0st]

I have a ton of respect and gratitude to the devs for doing the project, but I fear that they are reluctant to give us monetary numbers. I think the whole idea of discussing money in detail is a touchy subject.

Personally I wish they would tell us at least an idea how much they need. Somebody could then make an EQ exp bar that needs to be filled up to satisfy the cost. I'd love that and surely donate.

I can understand, if it is the case, the devs not wanting to give a number for the standard donations, but this is more like an emergency fundraiser!

[Treehorn]

Answer seems simple, allow a one-time option to buy plat or gear for whatever price ($10-$40?), or even just a cool-looking item to serve as a status symbol (rawr I'm better than you), or something fun like a rod with ten charges of turn your target into a Froglok. Incentivize.

[VincentVolaju]

I think even they were to even just say like, "Hey, were not gona ask for money but yes it is possible if enough people donate we could get some kind of anti-ddos thing and the servers would be up again" I think even if they just said something like that, without giving a #, people would still donate. I would if I knew it would bring the servers back up and prevent this from happening again.

[xorbier]

I'll donate $100. $500 if fixed by Friday.

[url0st]

Answer seems simple, allow a one-time option to buy plat or gear for whatever price ($10-$40?), or even just a cool-looking item to serve as a status symbol (rawr I'm better than you), or something fun like a rod with ten charges of turn your target into a Froglok. Incentivize.

I think even they were to even just say like, "Hey, were not gona ask for money but yes it is possible if enough people donate we could get some kind of anti-ddos thing and the servers would be up again" I think even if they just said something like that, without giving a #, people would still donate. I would if I knew it would bring the servers back up and prevent this from happening again.

No exchanging real life money for items, your playing this for free, if you want that to continue you may have to donate.

I agree a number isn't neccessary, just an idea that if we reached number x servers would work again, or if its not a problem that can be resolved quickly by cash.

[PearlJammzz]

Hosting companies usually have a guaranteed against ddos package. Typically they are lots more expensive though. In the end it's going to come down to hosting options/pricing. If the person has big enough pipes they will almost always win sadly.

[xorbier]

exchanging rl money for items in game.... Brilliant. That would RUIN the game!

Paying for a valid solution. Priceless.

[url0st]

Paying for a valid solution. Priceless.

/cheer
/agree
/thank

/dance
/dance
/dance

[choklo]

Any Dev input would be much appreciated.

[Poww]

Whether its a Co-Lo or a managed server the provider they use offers DDoS protection at the lowest package levels.

[Beor]

id donate a few hundred to get this thing up and running

[xorbier]

Oh developers. Sounds like we have the money. Let's do this! :D

Apparently I'm addicted after finding this server a mere two weeks ago. I want back in!!

[Axion]

I got $100 on it

[choklo]

This is how I see things happening:

The devs are checking into what equipment might work and how much it will cost. They will then decide if they can afford a solution that is likely to work. If they can't afford it, then we'll all have to convince them that donations will pay for it. Otherwise, I'm afraid they'll have to shut down the server for good.

[Treehorn]

No exchanging real life money for items, your playing this for free, if you want that to continue you may have to donate.
I'm wondering if you realize the dilemma in this line of reasoning.

exchanging rl money for items in game.... Brilliant. That would RUIN the game!
"Gold-buying" ruins MMOs because the people doing it lose the imperative to make rational economic choices, and end up paying any price to have an item immediately, thereby causing inflation. I think this happens more from the knowledge that they can just buy more gold, rather than the actual possession of the gold they have which was not "earned".

If this theory is correct, the idea I posited wouldn't have any significant effect on the in-game economy, negative or otherwise. You may disagree with the theory in regard to gold-buying, but I also offered the idea of Froglok rods, which I would be interested in seeing a rebuttal to.

Now, if enough people are donating or are going to donate, obviously such a measure would be unnecessary and undesirable. If not, as seems likely, it's a viable option, and one that strikes me as preferable to an alternative of shutting the server down.

[Webwolf]

Great idea on how to ruin the server Treehorn.

[Poww]

Assuming they are using burst.net (hostnoc) their lowest plans come with DDoS prevention methods included in the hosting.. They also can add additional firewall packages or specific DDoS prevention for $50 a month. But it would be good to get a GM response.

It really depends on the nature of the DDoS as well, I suppose if this was a simple attack there are simple enough solutions. If indeed the attack is taking up the pipe, they have to talk to the providers themselves to stop the attack at their access switches (unlikely to do, lots of issues with this) or just purchase the firewall/firewall service and toss it infront of their server, which again should already be provided unless its a more intelligent DDoS..

Choklo is greatly exaggerating when he says they will have to shut down the server.. they have at least a few options that aren't bank breaking and I would be happy to donate a bit.

[choklo]

Choklo is greatly exaggerating when he says they will have to shut down the server.. they have at least a few options that aren't bank breaking and I would be happy to donate a bit.

I didn't mean to spread any false information. I have no inside info about the problem.

I am just concerned that if people don't step up and donate-and I feel that they will- that some expensive solution may put the server in jeopardy. I'd hate for that to happen, since I am as addicted to this great game as ever.

[Swindle]

I'll be happy to throw in a $100 or two.

[Dac321]

I would donate some cash

[VincentVolaju]

With all of these players offering to donate hundreds of dollar's, I cant see how we would not be able to bring the server back up very soon. Unless of course money cant fix our problem.

[choklo]

If the devs would make some mention that the problem could helped by donations SOON, it would be great. If the server stays down for weeks or more, we would lose momentum and donations. People would check out the game, see it's "still down," and move on to another game.
People are just waiting to help now, so we should take advantage of it.

[VincentVolaju]

If the devs would make some mention that the problem could helped by donations SOON, it would be great. If the server stays down for weeks or more, we would lose momentum and donations. People would check out the game, see it's "still down," and move on to another game.
People are just waiting to help now, so we should take advantage of it.

Agreed

[url0st]

If the devs would make some mention that the problem could helped by donations SOON, it would be great. If the server stays down for weeks or more, we would lose momentum and donations. People would check out the game, see it's "still down," and move on to another game.
People are just waiting to help now, so we should take advantage of it.

Exactly.

[Eastwood]

I think the scary thing about accepting large donations is also the potential lawsuits that could come from SOE.

What if we pitched in thousands to protect and keep the server up only to see a lawsuit hit the server days later and waste all our money?

[Fraud]

...Unless of course money cant fix our problem.

Hahahahahaha, money not fixing problems.

[url0st]

I think the scary thing about accepting large donations is also the potential lawsuits that could come from SOE.

What if we pitched in thousands to protect and keep the server up only to see a lawsuit hit the server days later and waste all our money?

were not paying to access the content tho, we would be donating to protect the content.

[choklo]

That's a good question. I think the important thing to do is:
1) to verify that donations can help them fix the problem.
2) to NOT donate more than you can afford to lose.

I doubt sony is going to care about donations, especially when we only have about 2-3k people playing. I'm no lawyer though.

[alreadyhome]

I am sure they will be on soon to make some sort of comment of what's going on, everyone be patient and perhaps try to keep your thoughts to this thread so everything is centralized for them.

[dacduster]

Put me down for a good donation, if this is possible.

[harojaro91]

I would donate at least $50. Probably a good bit more if I knew it were going to make a difference.

[Drubu]

They should definitely take emergency donation sooner rather than later, since average mmo player will "move on" in 2+ weeks of downtime. Some might come back but 5-6 out of 10 will find something else. With a month of downtime it gets even worse...maybe 1-3 out of 10 would come back..

At least right now morale is high and people are willing to pay to get it fixed, some are even willing to pay alot to get it done fast.

[choklo]

I completely agree. This server is great and I'd come here first. That being said, some people are going to try other games and other emulaters-they say so at least. I've got the day off tomorrow and I'll probably start a toon on peq just to satisfy my addiction.

Oh, I just donated $25 via paypal. It took one minute.

[SVentura]

Rather than say you would be down to donate the money just go ahead and donate the money. The server doesn't wait for disasters to strike in order to need money to pay them bills.

Of course if you're putting down less than you can afford to lose then...what have you got to lose?

~Olly~
32 Druid

[Fraud]

Another big concern is right now is a prime time to have the servers up, we will be seeing an influx of new players after the article from TTH and if they see the servers are down, they might say pass and never even think to come back.

We might miss out on a lot of new players.

[Isildur]

Problem is SVentura, some people are willing to make relatively LARGE donations, but don't want to blindly do it. If they know it will go directly towards DDoS protection (or whatever is required), and will help bring the server back up, then they will donate larger figures because they WANT IT NOW(sh). I'm sure you can understand this.

[Goobles]

I remember a time when we had a DDoS protected server. Or at least a message that DDoS was incoming.

[mrgoochio]

What if they use all your donations on "DDoS mitigation" hardware/services and its simply not enough and fails? There goes all your hundreds of dollars on what you thought was a promised solution. An Angry P99 Mob INC

[KingKoopa]

i would donate 100 bucks and like somone said before me 500..if the server was up this week

[predator160]

Personally I wish they would tell us at least an idea how much they need. Somebody could then make an EQ exp bar that needs to be filled up to satisfy the cost. I'd love that and surely donate.

i like this EQ exp bar idea...i would definitely donate to see a DING! :)

[bionicbadger]

they can't say, because there is no guarantee and it depends on the resources of the DDoSer and how many bots they have available. DDoS can be huge and take out on-line poker sites that have millions of dollars at their disposal. Your donations can't stand up to that. You do the best you can with the money you have.

[SVentura]

Any money donated will help server stability. I can understand not wanting to donate blindly, but the idea was to not donate more than you can afford to lose. If you love the server and are vocal and proactive about donating to solve the problem then just go ahead and donate. If you have doubts about the GMs using your money for something OTHER than server stability then maybe you should rethink donating in general?

Waiting until after the fact is just trying to make yourself look better. You think people weren't hungry and homeless in Haiti BEFORE the earthquake?

~Olly~

[rsynweap84]

As sad as all them hobo's in Haiti dyin' was, this server going up is more important, please continue with the donations, lets protect our server. :o

[trolleleet]

If this is the end, it sure is a good way to go out with some few thousand dollars. In 2 weeks time you could be livin la vida loca by then.

I aint giving money away for nothing, atleast let me play with lag.

[Kyronix]

I feel so bad, because I just found this server and honestly had planned already on making this my gaming home for the next... however many years its operational. The economy sucks here in Socal and with a failed attempt at starting my own business I'm in the hole a LOT. I would donate the 500 if I had it, believe me and I would be proud. It makes me happy, not only that ive found this great server, but that the people on it are as dedicated and awesome as the concept that founded it.

Godspeed and hopefully ill be able to donate soon (start a new job on the 27th :) )

[xorbier]

"Answer seems simple, allow a one-time option to buy plat or gear for whatever price ($10-$40?), or even just a cool-looking item to serve as a status symbol (rawr I'm better than you), or something fun like a rod with ten charges of turn your target into a Froglok. Incentivize.".

damn liberals

[Zordana]

atleast let me play with lag.


this!

[Ceridain]

fight the good fight!

[stormlord]

I think the scary thing about accepting large donations is also the potential lawsuits that could come from SOE.

What if we pitched in thousands to protect and keep the server up only to see a lawsuit hit the server days later and waste all our money?

One thing is for sure, they're aware of us. The toptenhammer article writer spoke with Smed about it and Smed voiced his thoughts. They know. The question is whether they feel threatened by all this or not. I hope not.

I for one have played on live servers for a long time. Current EQ is a different game compared to what we have here on project1999. I don't think we threaten them for that reason. It's Apples and Oranges. Now, PEQ is another matter. That's supposed to be just like live. That's more risky.

[stormlord]

They should definitely take emergency donation sooner rather than later, since average mmo player will "move on" in 2+ weeks of downtime. Some might come back but 5-6 out of 10 will find something else. With a month of downtime it gets even worse...maybe 1-3 out of 10 would come back..

At least right now morale is high and people are willing to pay to get it fixed, some are even willing to pay alot to get it done fast.

I agree. Some people will pass the time by going somewhere else... and get caught up in whatever they're doing and be gone for a couple months or more. Some won't even come back.

They'll forget why it was fun and when they come back they'll think about all the wrong things.

My Case. I just got back from a long break. I was like "Why is this fun? 1-50, simple mechanics. Why play here?" I had a lot of reasons. But once I started to make progress on my druid, I remembered why it was fun: helping others and surviving the hell of leveling with others. I'd have to say my primary reason is to enrich the homecity areas. I don't twink any of my alts. I want to be there for people when they need help.

We play here because of others. At least, that's what I think.

[Omnimorph]

I agree. Some people will pass the time by going somewhere else... and get caught up in whatever they're doing and be gone for a couple months or more. Some won't even come back.

They'll forget why it was fun and when they come back they'll think about all the wrong things.

My Case. I just got back from a long break. I was like "Why is this fun? 1-50, simple mechanics. Why play here?" I had a lot of reasons. But once I started to make progress on my druid, I remembered why it was fun: helping others and surviving the hell of leveling with others. I'd have to say my primary reason is to enrich the homecity areas. I don't twink any of my alts. I want to be there for people when they need help.

We play here because of others. At least, that's what I think.


how poignant :p this is a server built on love <3

*breaks into song*

[choklo]

Since DDoS attacks are illegal and violate IP policies, internet policies etc, what about legal action? Donations could be directed for that as well. I'm serious. This person(s) is violating rules and laws and should be held accountable.

We have more resources than the hacker may think.

[Lonedrahon25]

The odds, however, of the FBI using any resources on project1999 is slim. We do not "make money" so when our servers go down we aren't losing money---like real businesses do who go to the FBI. We aren't a government agency, nor do we provide some essential service for our clients.

We are a free game server. This puts us about as far down the food chain in terms of criminal activity as you can get. Our attacker, therefore, has no real fear of being caught...no matter how often or how uncleanly he launches the ddos.


Read this, that summs it up.

[choklo]

Read this, that summs it up.

That is the whole point of this thread. If keeping the server up is largely about money, we can fix that. When did the dev make that comment?

We have 3400+ people on this forum. $10 each, and we donate 34K to the sever. $1500 should be easy to manage. Some people will donate a few hundred, they say.

Some dev input would be extremely helpful. If we had some number to shoot for, we'd do it easily. If people were told, "We are about 10k short to make security upgrades," that would help tremendously.

[LittleSorcerer7]

I'm wondering if you realize the dilemma in this line of reasoning.


"Gold-buying" ruins MMOs because the people doing it lose the imperative to make rational economic choices, and end up paying any price to have an item immediately, thereby causing inflation. I think this happens more from the knowledge that they can just buy more gold, rather than the actual possession of the gold they have which was not "earned".

If this theory is correct, the idea I posited wouldn't have any significant effect on the in-game economy, negative or otherwise. You may disagree with the theory in regard to gold-buying, but I also offered the idea of Froglok rods, which I would be interested in seeing a rebuttal to.

Now, if enough people are donating or are going to donate, obviously such a measure would be unnecessary and undesirable. If not, as seems likely, it's a viable option, and one that strikes me as preferable to an alternative of shutting the server down.
There will never be purchasing of items for real life money, in other threads this has been discussed Even for keeping the server alive. It wont happen and I would personally stop playing if they gave items for "Donations".