No need to face opponent for hitting in melee?

[oldfish]

Is this correct?

This was one of the major things you had to do back in pvp classic when casting, attempting to hit someone in melee, to make sure you were facing opponent.

If you remove this, you remove alot of the tacticity of moving around, in fact i dont think theres a point in trying to move under that system, just stand in front of each other and let the game play...

[Kain]

"You can not see your target"

The melee part seems to still be there but now that you mentioned I remember this too.

If you started casting and the guy went behind you, well too bad you got a casting cooldown and have to cast again.

If /face was removed for some "keep it classic" reason,then might as well do this to all casters too. Either that or let melees attack 360 just like casters.

Although it appeared that I only swung my sword forward in reality my blade went full circle. The hand is quicker than the eye >.>

I'm hoping that they just put /face back in though...

[oldfish]

"You can not see your target"

The melee part seems to still be there but now that you mentioned this I recall this too.

If you started casting and the guy went behind you well too bad you got a casting cooldown and have to cast again.

Im fighting in innothule right now testing it. I can stand with my back to someone and hit him in melee. Not classic and not good at all IMO. It cheapens the whole combat system, dodging people with direction was a huge part of combat back on classic.

[Darwoth]

yeah i mentioned this a while ago, cant remember why it was changed but that was one of the things that balanced out small race melees vs ogres etc and just general jousting/strafing skill in melee vs melee combat.

[oldfish]

yeah i mentioned this a while ago, cant remember why it was changed but that was one of the things that balanced out small race melees vs ogres etc and just general jousting/strafing skill in melee vs melee combat.

I dont see how thats balancing jousting at all though, theres just no jousting anymore now.

I was fighting a SK in innothule and at some point it dawned on me that i was forced to tank him or run because there was no way for me to try to get a hit in without him hitting me. Theres no jousting, you either stand there and let the game play for you or kite someone. Its gonna make melees vs melees boring IMO, although they will probably like that its easy mode to hit casters since they cant dodge you like they did on classic.

[Kain]

So I'm not gonna see /face
Joust Fix
Caster Fix

Damn you! Damn you all to hell! Arghg25#gg*(fjumbledmesshere)(grrr

[purest]

wow this kid is still crying about the /face thing?

[Kain]

Purest, can you let me have my fun and get off my nut sack? Kthx

[Darwoth]

I dont see how thats balancing jousting at all though, theres just no jousting anymore now.

I was fighting a SK in innothule and at some point it dawned on me that i was forced to tank him or run because there was no way for me to try to get a hit in without him hitting me. Theres no jousting, you either stand there and let the game play for you or kite someone. Its gonna make melees vs melees boring IMO, although they will probably like that its easy mode to hit casters since they cant dodge you like they did on classic.


i was agreeing with you

[Nune]

can tell you for a factoid ive been casted on without the caster facing me in beta

[Rogean]

Isn't /face a macroquest command? I never remember that being a legitimate EQ Mechanic...

[dogbarf]

No no hes talking about customizing his characters face in between jousts so his opponents forget who he is.

[Danger]

either way this 360 shits gotta go

[Kain]

Isn't /face a macroquest command? I never remember that being a legitimate EQ Mechanic...

I didn't even know people cheated in EQ beyond pathing issues until 5 years or so after I quit live.

but yeah I'd like it if /face was implemented and we fixed 360 melee ;)

[Lovely]

WTF is this shit. I just tested it myself. This definitely gotta get fixed asap. Ill provde a screenshot of it if someone doesn't understand how it works

[Lovely]

http://imageshack.dk/imagesfree/VtK27844.jpg

Both are hitting each other from this position. You can basically hit other players from any angles in a HUUUGE area.

Man melee attacks should cost mana in a system like this, it's almost like nuking players..

[DarthPeon]

This was an intended change and it is in the patch notes from Oct 23rd.

Rogean: PvP Attacks no longer require the attacker to be facing their target.

The reason this change was made was because it was classic. (corrected by Rogean below) It was also needed to resolve the hitbox issue on these servers. The client does not update the position fast enough and minor warping makes it practically impossible to hit moving targets.

And /face was never a classic command.

[oldfish]

This was an intended change and it is in the patch notes from Oct 23rd.

Rogean: PvP Attacks no longer require the attacker to be facing their target.

The reason this change was needed was to resolve the hitbox issue on these servers. The client does not update the position fast enough and minor warping makes it practically impossible to hit moving targets.

And /face was never a classic command.

How "impossible" is it?

Because i think this is bad, as a wiz i would walk around all the time to try to get behind melees, like run behind a tree, and walk 180 right by the guy, root him, shit like that.

If this is really the best we can get then whatever ill settle for it, but if hitting moving people is only harder, not impossible, id choose that in a heartbeat over this 360 stuff.

Im still testing, well at least it looks like Bigs cant slam like this

Not trying to stir shit at the last minute, just noticed this

[DarthPeon]

How "impossible" is it?

Because i think this is really bad, as a wiz i would walk around all the time to try to get behind melees, like run behind a tree, and walk right by the guy, root him, shit like that.

If this is really the best we can get then whatever ill settle for it, but if hitting moving people is only harder, not impossible, id choose that in a heartbeat over this 360 stuff.

Impossible to the point that you could not land a hit and it was needed. Use the search function next time.

[Rogean]

The reason this change was needed was to resolve the hitbox issue on these servers.

No.

It was implemented because it is classic. It's how it worked on Live. It was tested on the mac server.

[Pudge]

Rogean. ETA on server please? even just a rough estimate - like when you get home from work and how long after the server might go up?

[DarthPeon]

No.

It was implemented because it is classic. It's how it worked on Live. It was tested on the mac server.

My apologies then,

Prior to the change we also tested that it was not possible to hit moving targets. Same results achieved - different reasoning for the change.

[oldfish]

No.

It was implemented because it is classic. It's how it worked on Live. It was tested on the mac server.

Yeah actually i havent played until Velious, i always mix that up, i say "But its classic/not classic" but didnt play in 99.

Xp loss and other tweaks arent classic either then, if we arent super rigid on making it pure classic i think this is pretty bad, if its easy for you to switch it, i think you should ditch it. (wait... was xp loss classic?)

My apologies then,

Prior to the change we also tested that it was not possible to hit moving targets. Same results achieved - different reasoning for the change. Unless this is correct and it isnt just this guys shitty internet connection.

I changed my mind about rolling a caster, but if i hadnt, knowing what i know now, i wouldnt roll one, they are going to get fk'd up by melees. I mean in a big battle its allrite, but small groups they are going to get hurt.

[Lovely]

No.

It was implemented because it is classic. It's how it worked on Live. It was tested on the mac server.

Well that is fine. But was the hitbox really this huge back in the Everquest days? It's definitely not from what I can remember.

[Rogean]

We have code support for increasing the range of pvp hitbox, however it is currently set to 1.0 modifier (no change).

PvP:PvPHitboxMod | 1.0

[Rogean]

Rogean. ETA on server please? even just a rough estimate - like when you get home from work and how long after the server might go up?

Evening, like the announcement said.

I'm not working this week. Flew back from vacation early to make sure server is ready.

[gnomishfirework]

Evening, like the announcement said.

I'm not working this week. Flew back from vacation early to make sure server is ready.

Wow, that's really nice. I hope you had a great vacation.

[Pfap]

Evening, like the announcement said.

I'm not working this week. Flew back from vacation early to make sure server is ready.

I approve of your awesome dedication to get this server up and running.

[oldfish]

Right, thanks for all this effort you put in !

I may sound complainy sometimes but its just I want the server to rock.

[Lovely]

Our hero Rogean!

[Smedy]

I'm not working this week. Flew back from vacation early to make sure server is ready.

http://files.sharenator.com/Youre_Awesome_Vehement_Picdump_3_w_story-s470x376-260177-580.jpg

im ready, lets do this 1 more day

[lethdar]

hitbox here is bigger than on live actually, search the forums for the test thread we did on it, was one of the first things we checked on beta release.

[Lovely]

Meleeeeee OPness. It's crazy how easy it is to hit people on beta atm as a melee. Live wasn't even close.. Not that I care since ill be melee main later on anyway :D

[lethdar]

The difference is less than 1 loc for hitbox range, the only reason its different here than live is due to the lack of dial up connections that we had in 99.

[Doors]

Thanks Rogean.

[Crenshinabon]

Melee is OP
Casters are OP
Seems balanced.
Also this shit IS classic.

[gloinz]

pvp champs can still joust btw

[pickled_heretic]

pretty sure this wasn't classic. the run-through backstab joust that you all remember involved running through the other person while still standing inside of their hitbox. pretty sure that being outside of someone's hitbox and facing away while autoattacking is not classic. it's cool though cause i was thinking of rolling a warrior anyway. Thanks rogean!

[Hangerbaby]

This was definitely part of classic. I remember getting pissed when I would hide behind walls and the guy I was hiding from would start hitting me from the otherside of a wall. It was eventually patched.

[pickled_heretic]

This was definitely part of classic. I remember getting pissed when I would hide behind walls and the guy I was hiding from would start hitting me from the otherside of a wall. It was eventually patched.

how does hitting through walls have anything to do with hitting people that are standing behind you?

[gloinz]

how does hitting through walls have anything to do with hitting people that are standing behind you?

"You can not see your target"

[Hangerbaby]

how does hitting through walls have anything to do with hitting people that are standing behind you?

I've played with the attack code on VZTZ. There is no differentiation between what direction you are facing in the early code IIRC.. There is a hitbox and a distance in which you must be within in order to hit someone. Early emu servers reduced hitbox to the point of impossibility because it starts from the front of your character.

Right now the hitbox is set at what classic was. It was not until later when they fixed directional hitboxes. I believe they just added in a sophisticated sensory system similar to the one used for backstab (which you'll find works in a huge radius 'behind' a person)

[pickled_heretic]

I've played with the attack code on VZTZ. There is no differentiation between what direction you are facing in the early code IIRC.. There is a hitbox and a distance in which you must be within in order to hit someone. Early emu servers reduced hitbox to the point of impossibility because it starts from the front of your character.

Right now the hitbox is set at what classic was. It was not until later when they fixed directional hitboxes. I believe they just added in a sophisticated sensory system similar to the one used for backstab (which you'll find works in a huge radius 'behind' a person)

how does any of this make any sense at all, given that you have to be standing BEHIND your target to backstab? Obviously there have been directional hitboxes of some sort since the inception of everquest.

[Hangerbaby]

I believe they just added in a sophisticated sensory system similar to the one used for backstab

[pickled_heretic]

I believe they just added in a sophisticated sensory system similar to the one used for backstab

Oh, so you mean there was already directional hitboxes at the inception of everquest. Thank you for agreeing with me. Why are we arguing again?

[Softcore PK]

You could always attack 360º around you in EQ, at least in pvp. To backstab you have to be at your target's back/side, but they don't have to be in front of you.

[pickled_heretic]

Since we're on the topic, why does anyone care what is classic and what isn't? Aren't practically all of the PvP related rules and resists on this server a custom fabrication?

[Hangerbaby]

Oh, so you mean there was already directional hitboxes at the inception of everquest. Thank you for agreeing with me. Why are we arguing again?

It wasn't implemented for standard auto attack, sorry.

[pickled_heretic]

It wasn't implemented for standard auto attack, sorry.

Ahh, but that's different than what you were just saying. You said it was impossible for this to exist because directional hitboxes existed. Now you're saying it was possible but was not implemented (but only for PvP, of course). Which is it? I certainly don't remember being able to face away from someone and autoattack them. Several others in this thread post along the same line. Furthermore, I recall it being somewhat difficult to pull off the run-through backstab, though I didn't have a very high-level rogue, you had to time it right against a moving target and be at just the right distance. With this new system it seems almost trivial.

[Hangerbaby]

Ahh, but that's different than what you were just saying. You said it was impossible for this to exist because directional hitboxes existed. Now you're saying it was possible but was not implemented (but only for PvP, of course). Which is it? I certainly don't remember being able to face away from someone and autoattack them. Several others in this thread post along the same line. Furthermore, I recall it being somewhat difficult to pull off the run-through backstab, though I didn't have a very high-level rogue, you had to time it right against a moving target and be at just the right distance. With this new system it seems almost trivial.

That's not what I said, nor what I intended you to take from that. Stop screwing around. It is not my fault you have not seen the code. I do not have server code on my PC anymore, but I can assure you that the backstab code was explicitly different from auto-attack code, assuring that you must be behind the target in order for it to work.

It's not as simple as saying a hitbox is a hitbox is a hitbox. It's quite different than that, actually.

[pickled_heretic]

That's not what I said, nor what I intended you to take from that. Stop screwing around. It is not my fault you have not seen the code. I do not have server code on my PC anymore, but I can assure you that the backstab code was explicitly different from auto-attack code, assuring that you must be behind the target in order for it to work.

It's not as simple as saying a hitbox is a hitbox is a hitbox. It's quite different than that, actually.

I don't care who you are. I don't care what you've seen. You contradicted yourself within the breadth of a few posts. You are an unreliable witness and cannot be trusted as an authority on anything.

[Danger]

back from vacation early to make sure server is ready.

my *****. thx brew.

and.

z0mg rogues OP now. nerf me and the 1 or 2 other ppl playing them in classic from launch.

[pickled_heretic]

my *****. thx brew.

and.

z0mg rogues OP now. nerf me and the 1 or 2 other ppl playing them in classic from launch.

this was never about rogues. frankly, rogues need all the help they can get (until they get their epic!) but this change affects ALL melee classes, as well as jousting. if you somehow got that this thread is about rogues your reading comprehension is very poor.

[Hangerbaby]

I don't care who you are. I don't care what you've seen. You contradicted yourself within the breadth of a few posts. You are an unreliable witness and cannot be trusted as an authority on anything.

You need to come up with something more convincing than "la-la-la-la i can't hear you" if you want to convince people that the claims you are making about the attack system are legitimate. There was only direction clauses for backstab and similar attacks. Not for auto attack. Therefore it is normal for two players facing back to back to be hitting eachother IN CLASSIC everquest. Deal with it, stop QQing

[pickled_heretic]

You need to come up with something more convincing than "la-la-la-la i can't hear you" if you want to convince people that the claims you are making about the attack system are legitimate. There was only direction clauses for backstab and similar attacks. Not for auto attack. Therefore it is normal for two players facing back to back to be hitting eachother IN CLASSIC everquest. Deal with it, stop QQing

Nobody's QQ'ing. I even said I'm probably going to be rolling a warrior (or maybe a paladin? bard? can't make up my mind), this change directly benefits me.

Either way, I don't know who you are, and I'm pretty sure you can't logic your way through a high school debate based on the last few posts you have made, so I don't really care what your input is.

[Hangerbaby]

Nobody's QQ'ing. I even said I'm probably going to be rolling a warrior (or maybe a paladin? bard? can't make up my mind), this change directly benefits me.

Either way, I don't know who you are, and I'm pretty sure you can't logic your way through a high school debate based on the last few posts you have made, so I don't really care what your input is.

The only absence of logic here is your own. You're literally basing what you are saying on nothing. I'm sorry you cannot see that. You're not intelligent enough to have this conversation, so please just admit you were wrong and confused (as you normally are, I'm sure), and move on with your life.

[pickled_heretic]

The only absence of logic here is your own. You're literally basing what you are saying on nothing. I'm sorry you cannot see that. You're not intelligent enough to have this conversation, so please just admit you were wrong and confused (as you normally are, I'm sure), and move on with your life.

I'm basing it on my own perception of how things were on classic. I could be wrong, but there's at least a few people here, in this thread, that agree with me. It's our word against yours, I suppose, with the principal difference being that you're demonstrably inconsistent and incapable of being trusted.

[pickled_heretic]

Just to catch everyone else up:
There is no differentiation between what direction you are facing in the early code IIRC.
I believe they just added in a sophisticated sensory system similar to the one used for backstab
First Hangerbaby says that there were no "directional hitboxes" in the early code. He knew this, because he has "played with the TZVZ code." When I point out that backstab has always been only capable of being used when standing behind a player or NPC, he backtracked and said that there WERE hitboxes, but they weren't implemented for autoattack. *shrug* Looks like inconsistency for me. You would be a lot more credible, Hangerbaby, if you just admitted you were wrong. Concede the point and move on to something else - it's an easy way to not look like a complete idiot.

[oldfish]

You need to come up with something more convincing than "la-la-la-la i can't hear you" if you want to convince people that the claims you are making about the attack system are legitimate. There was only direction clauses for backstab and similar attacks. Not for auto attack. Therefore it is normal for two players facing back to back to be hitting eachother IN CLASSIC everquest. Deal with it, stop QQing

Pickled Heretic's point was that why are we caring if something is not classic if we are not sticking to a pure classic server if it suits a gameplay improvement?

And removing 360 hitboxes most assuredly improves gameplay. Its easy mode to hit casters, shaman blind 1v1 is pretty much useless unless the guy wants to run and a melee fight is essentially standing next to one another and waiting for someone to die.

[Hangerbaby]

I'm not arguing that it doesn't improve gameplay to remove 360 hitboxes, and I was talking strictly about autoattack in the first quote ph decided to pull out of context.

I would prefer you have to face your opponent to hit them. My assumption is that since mobs tended to overstep when you moved so much (pulling with melee, attacking while walking backwards) it was likely impossible to implement this right away(rushed?) - especially with the age of the dial up connection. Even backstab didn't work correctly. I think I never used bs as a rogue because it'd always say "you need to be behind your target" regardless of where I was.