Shaman soloing at 50 pre-Kunark, soloability feedback please

[oldfish]

What are the soloability of a shaman at 50 on classic pre-kunark?

Ive read they are pretty good at 60 with torpor, but what about earlier?

Im debating wether to roll one on Red, but i kind of want to be able to solo stuff at 50 and not wait for Kunark for that.

Thanks for any input you can provide, i know i wont get much on the red forums ;)

[quido]

Shamans at 50 aren't proportionately as powerful as they are at 60, but they definitely are effective soloers. Your slow is nearly as good as the kunark one, and your pet is almost as powerful as the 55 pet.

[oldfish]

Shamans at 50 aren't proportionately as powerful as they are at 60, but they definitely are effective soloers. Your slow is nearly as good as the kunark one, and your pet is almost as powerful as the 55 pet.

Thank you.

How would they compare to necros? In terms of camps they can take? Im not that used to EQ endgame. Can they take most camps that necros can take, just gonna take more of a beating? Or part of the camps will be off limits?

[quido]

I'd say the pre-kunark necro overall is a better soloer across the board. A necro's superior camp-taking ability is generally due to the fact that necros (understandably) like to stick to undead camps. It really comes down to your style, though. I personally like getting a little down and dirty and taking some hits, but some people prefer the cleanliness of a necro (as far as melee contact goes). Overall I'd say the classes are comparably effective pre-kunark with necros edging out shamans by a relatively small margin. Most other classes don't hold a candle to necros and shamans soloing camps pre-kunark. Enchanters used to, and mages used to be able to drop a lot of mobs in non-room-camp sort of situations (like Seafuries), but the necro and the shaman are undeniably the best at getting you some loot, in my opinion. This of course flipflops bigtime in Kunark, especially at level 60. In a given hour, a necro generates less than half the mana that an industrious shaman does, and shamans have the best dots in the game. Today I dual-invised into the skeletal warlord room east of LCY in KC, rooted both the mobs in there, slowed, dotted and jbbed the warlord, and gated out 70 seconds later with a t-staff. Granted a necro could do the same thing, but if that root breaks, you're in a much more hairy situation. I know there are plenty of situations where the opposite is true. No one will deny how fucking badass necros are. FD is such a sweet trump card, and combined with baller pets and a wicked array of spells, this makes for a badass motherfucking class. I really enjoy the power of the shaman slow in his arsenal - the pre-kunark slow is only 5% not as slow as Turgur's. Since they adjusted how slow recalculates delay a few months ago, slow has been super effective. If you are dealing with melee-type mobs, slow is easy street to experience and loot.

So I don't know really, both are really sweet and really fun, at least I think a necro would be. Both also have some great utility group- and raid-wise.

[Mayhem2]

With the recent pet xp nerfs. (Player has to do 50% dmg in order to get 100% xp).

I am willing to bet that a Shammy can now rake in xp faster than a necro, until the mid to later 50's.

[jerok88]

With the recent pet xp nerfs. (Player has to do 50% dmg in order to get 100% xp).

I am willing to bet that a Shammy can now rake in xp faster than a necro, until the mid to later 50's.

How does this work in a group or a duo

[Goobles]

The first level 50 on P99 was a Shaman.

[baub]

Jeremy summed it up quite nicely.

The only camps I never really bothered with pre-kunark were AM and Lord because in theory ice comets suck dick and I didn't want to deal with it. Stuff like Frenzy was a breeze in my mid/late 40s while still rocking banded though.

[quido]

To mention a few particular camps, also:

Lguk Lord: Necro and enchanter are the only class that have a shot at legit killing the named in an unbroken camp. It is very dangerous for both to do so. A shaman could come close if he managed to strategically root all the adds, but definitely couldn't handle Lord solo, especially if he's holding a SSoY.

Lguk AM: Both Shamans and Necros can kill AM. *edit2* Killing AM might be a little tough now as a 50 shaman. I did it a few times, but not only did I have the broken Rage, a large race's Slam ability was at least five times as effective as it is now. Back in the day I'd wager that about 50% of my Slams landed against AM, much more against trash mobs. Nowadays as a 60, I'd bet that 15% of my Slams would land against AM. I used to keep myself hasted just to get more Slams per unit time, but since the huge melee nerfs (including Slam, Bash) a couple months into kunark (which are probably implemented from the beginning now), it's probably not worth it unless you need to get lucky occasionally on a bunch of healers. Similarly, though, charm reliability has further been nerfed and consequently 50 necros won't be as effective on lguk deadside as we remember them.

Lguk Frenzy: Both Shamans and Necros can clear Frenzy.

Lguk King: The only class that has a shot at clearing this solo is an enchanter.

Lguk Keep: This is one of those camps where a shaman probably outperforms a necro since it is all live.

Lguk Tower: Both classes are extremely effective at clearing the tower area (Ass/Sup/Sav/Cav/Sage/Exe).

SolB Efreeti: The only class with a shot at soloing this camp is Enchanters; this, of course, is extremely dangerous. I only managed to do it twice on my enchanter at 50 after the LoS nerf (where mobs could land spells with broken LoS - just have to be in sight when they start casting). Also, at 60, I think shamans are the only class that can effectively solo Efreeti. I've tanked and spanked him a few times with a dog pet and dots - no charm clickies!

SolB FGs: A 50 shaman can solo a fire giant warrior easy =) *edit* This probably isn't possible any more since they fixed the Rage line of spells. I'd be curious to try. It feels like it would require too heavy a balance of healing and dps.

The rest of the real SolB camps: I don't think anyone really solos here except the occasional enchanter or whatever

Outdoor Giant-Type Shit (Seafuries, HGs, etc): Both classes are extremely effective, though overall necros will drop more mobs pre-kunark.

Kedge crap - Shamans and Necros don't really solo the badass stuff here. It takes a skilled (and lucky) enchanter to drop the high-value nameds in Kedge.

[oldfish]

Thanks again for the input, very useful info.

[quido]

How does this work in a group or a duo

Yeah I'd be curious myself to get some cold and hard facts on this topic. I know there is a huge thread or two out there but I don't have time for that nonsense. Can someone who has tested it out and messed around tell us assuredly how the experience works in a group situation involving one or more pets and possible reclaiming?

[quido]

while still rocking banded though.

Baub brings up a good point. Shamans are still super effective at mid-high levels even with crap gear or naked. Sometimes when I die on a raid, I'll show up at my bind outside KC and zone in and kill a few dogs before getting rezzed. Yeah there is less leeway of course, but I can still get a regen on myself, start cannying, cast a pet if I desire, and start pushing out some damage. I bet a naked shaman, 50 or 60, outperforms most classes of the same level, haha! A naked necro can't cast a pet without scoring a bone chip or two.

This is sort of an aside really, but there have been many CRs where I'm thankful that I maintain 80% (or something) of my power. A naked warrior is completely fucking worthless. A naked necro is still rather effective too, but not like a shaman is.

[Thoughtseize]

The first level 50 on P99 was a Shaman.

When Affliction was doing 3x the damage and Rage was acting like Torpor...

[Ryba]

A naked necro is almost exactly as powerful offensively as a geared necro unless you are forcing him to tank, in which case necro and shaman are both DOA. Bone chips are everywhere and half the mobs in the game are undead.

It is just funny to hear someone say shaman is on par with necro soloing. I guess this is true if you consider time spent on CR when root fails "soloing". Necro can mez pull to pet and FD to break a camp, insta invis/root rot without pet (kunark), kite, has a pet that can soak up several rounds when needed, and maybe most importantly, a necro almost never has to run for the zone line. And with taps and allure line necros spend much less time at full health, low health, full mana or low mana than any other class. Any combination of full or low bars means there is or was an interruption to your solo flow.

If you are trying to max for dungeon soloing and you don't roll nec or enc then you're doing it wrong. Shaman is a solid third place.

[quido]

If you are trying to max for dungeon soloing and you don't roll nec or enc then you're doing it wrong. Shaman is a solid third place.

I'd be really curious to see how a necro handles a camp like Frenzy now that charm will break way more often than it used to.

[pickled_heretic]

Yeah I'd be curious myself to get some cold and hard facts on this topic. I know there is a huge thread or two out there but I don't have time for that nonsense. Can someone who has tested it out and messed around tell us assuredly how the experience works in a group situation involving one or more pets and possible reclaiming?

Agreed. There has been a LOT of speculation. No sufficient evidence has come up either way. And honestly, the patch notes can be interpreted a couple of different ways.

[Ryba]

I'd be really curious to see how a necro handles a camp like Frenzy now that charm will break way more often than it used to.

Diamondskin, charm a room mob, root another and burn it down, then feign death. Just keep doing it til it works and keep FD and harmshield ready. If it costs you 10 peridots, who cares.

There are lots of camps that shaman can do better than necro but I would much rather be a necro in lguk.

[Galacticus]

Not sure if this has been said but I will give my experience soloing from 1-50 pre kunark and 1-60 in kunark, one barbarian one ogre.

Shaman can solo but isnt very good at it until they really unlock what it means to be a shaman, around 29. This is when you are getting powerful dots and have a pet and a slow that all works well. Its when you get canni and regen when you start being able to solo well.

Solo leveling from 1-29 is not easy at all and if your doing it with no gear its even harder. You will have a low mana pool and alot of the time it wont be worth it to spend mana on a slow that is only 15% when you can just nuke it down or something like that.

Necros and shamans get the same posion and disease spells leveling. The difference is that the necro gets the better posion one and the shaman gets the better disease one when both classes are at the same level. I would say thats what gives the necro the real edge on dots, posion is faster and you can do more damage quicker with it. Also necros have their magic based dots too which shamans dont get.

So Shaman before 29 I would say would level as effectively as a ranger or shadowknight or paladin where they can kind of heal up vs how much dmg they put out solo. But once you get those key spells you are in the category with wizards druid and necros.

[Galacticus]

Yeah I'd be curious myself to get some cold and hard facts on this topic. I know there is a huge thread or two out there but I don't have time for that nonsense. Can someone who has tested it out and messed around tell us assuredly how the experience works in a group situation involving one or more pets and possible reclaiming?

The duo is really good, though in classic dots would not stack, so they would be doing less damage then if with maybe a wizard or a druid with the shaman or even a melee.

The real power comes from the ability to regen mana quickly and stay alive long. They would just wear anything down really.

[Hamahakki]

Lguk King: The only class that has a shot at clearing this solo is an enchanter.

On Live, I did my high 50s soloing at King as a Druid. (Early Kunark)

[quido]

The duo is really good, though in classic dots would not stack, so they would be doing less damage then if with maybe a wizard or a druid with the shaman or even a melee.

The real power comes from the ability to regen mana quickly and stay alive long. They would just wear anything down really.

You completely missed the point of that. We're wondering how the experience breaks down within the new implementation where pets sometimes steal a chunk of your experience dependent on damage.

On Live, I did my high 50s soloing at King as a Druid. (Early Kunark)

Yeah we're talking about prekunark here mostly, at 50... read the rest of the thread before commenting. Any of the camps where I listed just a few of the classes being able to handle them would obviously be different in Kunark. A 60 shaman can easily kill Lguk Lord, for example.

[Awwalike]

On Live, I did my high 50s soloing at King as a Druid. (Early Kunark)

you dare defy Jeremy?

[oldfish]

One more question. Is it overkill to dump all starting points in STA for an Ogre shaman?

That would make me start at 150 STA

I say that because i read that was a good template since you can convert easy to mana with canni. Just dont wanna waste points if im just going to max out STA too easy and i couldve had more mana.

[Slave]

Shaman can solo but isnt very good at it until they really unlock what it means to be a shaman, around 29. This is when you are getting powerful dots and have a pet and a slow that all works well.

I believe level 34 is when shamans get their pet.

[Slave]

One more question. Is it overkill to dump all starting points in STA for an Ogre shaman?

That would make me start at 150 STA

I say that because i read that was a good template since you can convert easy to mana with canni. Just dont wanna waste points if im just going to max out STA too easy and i couldve had more mana.

I went with full stamina and LOVED IT but then I had a fungi tunic, fbss, granite face grinder, and jaundiced bone bracer. It would be considerably easier to solo with a slightly larger mana pool, especially if you choose one of the less-wise races to start, in my opinion.

What will that do for the shaman endgame? In Classic there are probably far fewer wisdom items that are great for the slot and especially in PvP your mana bar is what is going to save you or take down that other player respectively.

I'd say that Wisdom is far more important in level 50 and pvp play than it is on a blue server in Kunark.

[socialist]

They're more or less as powerful at 50 as they are 51-59 except for lacking the luxury of JBB. Besides Torpor and unresistable Malo, shamans don't really get anything new in Kunark. Those two spells are extremely rare and both are level 60, so it's not exactly a core part of the class experience. A level 50 shaman is a great soloer, fully capable of doing anything soloable pre-Kunark except for the things that require charm. That'd be the main thing to consider when comparing them to necros, because undead charm is the key to soloing lord in Guk and I'm pretty sure only necros and enchanters can do it. Anything else worthwhile that can be soloed in classic can be soloed by a shaman. Maybe there's some obscure shit in Kedge that also requires charm, but outside of charm-reliant encounters, a shaman is right up there with the other soloers and probably ranks just after enchanter in terms of the most powerful mobs they can solo, and I'd say equal to necros outside of undead charm scenarios. A buffed high-level shaman pet isn't too far behind a high-level necro pet, their dots and mana tools are comparable, and the shaman's tanking ability and heals compare adequately to the necro's feign death except when this is used to actually avoid dying when things go wrong (which should happen less easily for a shaman due to their vastly superior raw survivability, and anyway the shaman can get a gate off much more reliably.) While ogre is generally the best shaman race, a barbarian shaman with the spiritist hammer can put out considerable damage without spending mana, and this becomes a viable soloing method in itself which isn't available to the other races.

[gnomishfirework]

One more question. Is it overkill to dump all starting points in STA for an Ogre shaman?

That would make me start at 150 STA

I say that because i read that was a good template since you can convert easy to mana with canni. Just dont wanna waste points if im just going to max out STA too easy and i couldve had more mana.

I would do wis if not twinking. Ogres already start out with incredible stamina. Wis is extremely easy to raise, but it really sucks ot have such shitty wisdom until canni.

[Extunarian]

They're more or less as powerful at 50 as they are 51-59 except for lacking the luxury of JBB. Besides Torpor and unresistable Malo, shamans don't really get anything new in Kunark.

Turgur's is a much better slow than Togor's.
Regrwoth is 2x the regen as Chloroplast.
Superior Healing actually kind of makes you a healer again.

Add in a JBB and I would say the level 53 kunark shaman is a far different experience than a level 50 classic shammy.

[Taminy]

Turgur's is a much better slow than Togor's.
Regrwoth is 1.5x the regen as Chloroplast.
Superior Healing actually kind of makes you a healer again.
.

Small correction.

[Taminy]

Shaman is a good soloer in classic/kunark

But pairing a shaman with a monk, warrior, sk... or necro or mage is crazy. A level 60 shaman duoing with one of those classes is absolutely devastating.

[socialist]

Turgur's is a much better slow than Togor's.
Regrwoth is 2x the regen as Chloroplast.
Superior Healing actually kind of makes you a healer again.

They're all upgrades to existing spell lines, not new abilities that change your playstyle. And Turgur's is 5% better than Togor's.

[Extunarian]

Turgurs is 70% slow I believe. Togor's is 50%. You're not looking at the classic values.

Regen is +5, Chloroplast is +10, and Regrowth is +20 hp/tick. Doubles in value every tier.


And yes, Turgur's/SupHeal/Regrowth are indeed upgrades, but they are significant upgrades that, in my experience, changed immensely what I could do as a shaman. You/your pet can tank things you couldn't thanks to Turgurs. You can actually heal a good portion of your health in an emergency. And going from +10 to +20 hp/tick is like adding an FT5 item for a shaman. And as I said before the addition of a JBB on top of all of this makes a level 53 shaman (or hell, even 52 w/o sup heal), vastly superior to a 50 shaman.

[Taminy]

Turgurs is 70% slow I believe. Togor's is 50%. You're not looking at the classic values.

Regen is +5, Chloroplast is +10, and Regrowth is +20 hp/tick. Doubles in value every tier.


It's not SUPPOSED to be 20/tick. It was 15/tick until 2004. Honestly I haven't paid enough attention but if it's 20 get ready for the nerf bat.

http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spellhistory.html?id=1568&source=Live

Togor's is 70% at 60, Turgur's is 75% at 60. Togor's at 45 is obviously not 70% though. It changes like 1% per level.

Turgur's does last twice as long though and there is actually a significant difference in slow reduction. 50% slow = half speed, 75% = quarter speed.