The Dot Stack Thread *TM

[valithteezee]

Hello folks,

I just wanted to voice my concern for what I think is a crucial part of playing one of the DOT classes effectively.

Currently the server is setup so that same dot lines cannot stack. For instance:

Plague does not stack with scourge
Drifting death does not stack with stinging swarm
Ignite blood does not stack with boil blood

Traditionally these spells all stacked. It made PVP more interesting because you could throw junk dots on first and bury the stronger dots deeper. You could also duo with the same class and both use the same lines effectively.

Discuss.

*edit*

Stinging swarm lines confirmed does not stack. http://web.archive.org/web/200008221...ds.com/dot.htm

Shaman disease lines confirmed stacks http://www.notacult.com/guide_trollshaman.html

Necro boil series confirmed Does not stack

[gloinz]

well hell naw if ya'll aint letting ol noble paladins cure plague from wounded confederates then double stacking on the wounded vets seems like overkill naw mean

[Vile]

not classic?

[Wawaka]

Plague does not stack with scourge
Drifting death does not stack with stinging swarm
Ignite blood does not stack with boil blood

NOT CLASSIC

[Castle]

Badly worded question. You lump in shamans with other classes.

I'm gonna have to say let's keep it classic. I am 100% sure all Shaman dots stacked, as I played a shaman in classic (but if you don't believe me, click below for proof.) They were unique in that respect IIRC. I don't remember the "blood line" stacking. Maybe it did. I just remember shamans didn't have "lines" of DoTs like other classes where the stronger one overwrote the weaker one; they had two "types:" poison and disease.

Whatever it was in classic, let's do it that way. All DoT a shaman had stacked with every other DoT that shaman could cast.

FOR SHAMANS, IT IS CLASSIC. CLICK FOR PROOF.
http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=54537

[PhantomRogue]

NOT CLASSIC

This change is bad. Makes DoT centric classes crap in PvP. Druids, Shaman, Necros all focused on stacking dots. This effectively negates most of their PvP prowess.

[Verdu]

NOT CLASSIC

I thought Dots stacked in classic, or did that come with Kunark?

[Castle]

In regards to Shaman DoTs I took a ride in the Way Back Machine (waybackmachine.org) on Casters Realm..

http://web.archive.org/web/20020305003108/http://eq.castersrealm.com/spells/spell.asp?Id=1175
MY OPINION, By Ugol (1/28/2001)

I would remove the bit about this spell being good for use in groups. It is in my experience of limited value in groups, because MOBs rarely last long enough for this to do full damage. Better to use the mem space for something else. I use the L39 poison and L49 poison together and they often lasts for full damage in a group, so they are fast enough.
Having said that, I would say that disease DOTs are great for soloing.

And now for my rant (feel free to ignore). I have grouped with shamans that disease MOBs when in a full group and the MOB dies two seconds later from nukes and melee attacks.Sheesh.

http://web.archive.org/web/20010724061058/http://eq.castersrealm.com/spells/spell.asp?Id=1141
THIS SPELL IS NOT USELESS AS OTHERS MAY TRY TO TELL YOU, By Warwulfe (1/28/2001)

In group fighting, it is most assuredly useless. Solo, it is invaluable. You need every edge you can get, especially when solo'ing Hill Giants and high hit-point count mobs. If nothing else, simply pull with the spell. Assuming it takes 30 seconds to get back, it is going to take another minute or two for you and your pet to finish it. 500+ damage, even in 2 minutes, is nothing to shake a stick at. Consider that Drifting Death, a 34 druid spell, does about 350 damage in a minute. This gets you 250-280 damage a minute for two minutes, and one cast. I'll stack it with a poison spell or three any day of the week. FYI - Scourge used to do nearly, if not more than 1000 damage over the course of 7 minutes. Now THAT is useless, especially to a Shaman, a class that does not need to kite to kill mobs effectively.

http://web.archive.org/web/20020113123314/http://eq.castersrealm.com/spells/spelldescriptions.asp?Id=1141&Page=2
WHY EB TILL 49???, By Nuuk warchyld (the sacred) rodcet nife (1/28/2001)

Mobs that are level 35 or so like, Dorfs, Ein, Guards etc.. have roughly 1700 hit points. Therefore after level 39 (Venom of Snake) an efficient mana way of killing these mobs is as follows: Lure with Scourge (550dmg), VoS(460dmg), EB(220dmg), ROOT, VoS(460dmg) after 42 seconds. Root to keep mob still to get full dmg from dots in. With out EB you would come up short about 150 dmg therefore having to waste mana on a blast that could get resisted or VoS which takes more mana than EB. With this series of spells you can get right till level 48 killing those mobs with minimal mana loss and downtime. and dont forget to med while waiting for mobs to die. I have used this method on dorfs and lose only 1 bubble of mana per mob i kill. I keep just ahead of 5 dorfs at a time. thats roughly a dorf ever 4 mins with almost no down time since i med between dots not fights. Try it it works great!

[valithteezee]

For druids, http://web.archive.org/web/20000822125319/www.eqdruids.com/dot.htm

"Note that 2 druids casting a stinging series DOES NOT STACK. The way for 2 druids to stack is for one to cast Immolate and the other to cast a stinging series".

[Lovely]

Druids, Shaman and Necro's are overpowered enough without dot stackings, no ty.

[valithteezee]

I could be foggy on the necro lines but shamans/druids could stack. Can any old school necro's confirm?

[Castle]

Druids, Shaman and Necro's are overpowered enough without dot stackings, no ty.

It's classic. But hey, while we're at it we can make a "Cure DD" potion that negates all the damage a wiz/mag nuke would do. Sound good, lovely?

[Verdu]

For druids, http://web.archive.org/web/20000822125319/www.eqdruids.com/dot.htm

That's good info. Thanks.

I remembered Druids being able to stack at least some spells, and that list makes sense.

[Castle]

http://web.archive.org/web/20000822125319/www.eqdruids.com/dot.htm

After extensive research from multiple classes, EQDruids has decided that we are most DoT friendly with other classes.

Druids can stack with themselves ONE of each section
Stinging Series: Stinging Swarm, Creeping Crud, Drones of Doom, Drifting Death
Flamelick Series :Flamelick, Immolate
(ie Immolate and Crud stack - Stinging and Crud DO NOT)
So far the Stinging Swarm, etc series stack 100% with all the Necromancer, Enchanter, and Shaman lines of all levels.
If you find a stack combination that DOES NOT work please email us.

Breath of Ro stacks with Stinging Series and Immolate Series

Winged Death stacks with Breath of Ro, Stinging Series, and Immolate Series

At Level 53, Immolate, Drifting Death, Breath of Ro, and Winged Death Stack.

Note that 2 druids casting a stinging series DOES NOT STACK. The way for 2 druids to stack is for one to cast Immolate and the other to cast a stinging series. Druids apparently couldn't stack dots from the same "line." Stinging Swarm and Creeping Crud were the same line and as mentioned above did not stack. Sure you can stack from different lines just like necros could do darkness, blood, lifetap dot, etc. But not the same line.

[pewpeat]

if everyone is just gonna come here and feking cry big tears for an IWIN button. then I propose rogues get quadruple backstab from the front. and no spells of the same line did not stack! were you born on the emu? jesus fuck lets get some real work done here

[valithteezee]

http://web.archive.org/web/20000822125319/www.eqdruids.com/dot.htm

Druids apparently couldn't stack dots from the same "line." Stinging Swarm and Creeping Crud were the same line and as mentioned above did not stack. Sure you can stack from different lines just like necros could do darkness, blood, lifetap dot, etc. But not the same line.

Yeah, I'm a little foggy was getting WD confused as a stinging line. I just remember getting WD and stinging swarm at the same time. Link clarifies things.

[DarthPeon]

This is in response to the OPs original post about inferior dots not stacking with superior dots of the same line, same class. Not to be confused with any edits they make to claim something else


You're wrong and I suggest you spend time to research what you think does not work as intended in the future.

The issue was addressed and rescinded from p99 by Uthgaard.


Uthgaard
03-07-2011, 08:32 AM
Working as intended.

What you had before, where every dot stacked with any other dot, was the bug.

http://www.project1999.org/forums/archive/index.php/t-28855.html

And here are the patch notes from July 24, 2002 - When they allowed multiple classes the ability to cast the same dot and exceed the 15 stack limit. However as mentioned in the patch notes - that still not to mean inferior versions of the same dot stacking.


We've made two changes to the way spells stack.

Damage Over Time (DoT) spells are spells that linger on the target
doing damage. Until today two different characters could not have the
same DoT spell on the same target. As long as one copy of the spell was
active any new version of the spell would not take hold. After today
the same DoT spell cast by different casters can affect the same target
at the same time. Also, if you cast a DoT spell on a target and you
already have that spell active on it, the spell will refresh. (Note: It
will not be possible to stack Lifeburn).

This does not allow for inferior spells to stack along with superior
spells. (Example: Two Necromancers can both land Boil Blood on the same
target. However, Heat Blood, being an inferior spell, will still not
stack.)

Full patch notes below

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/history/patches-2002-2.html

[Castle]

Pewpeat, true, but shamans didn't have "lines" of spells, they had two types. Shaman DoTs stacked. If you disagree brah, L2Read (http://www.project1999.org/forums/showpost.php?p=464946&postcount=8)

DarthPeon, is correct, but that doesn't refer to Shaman DoTs since Shamans didn't have "lines" of DoTs. This is proven by the links I provided to sworn testimonies in early 2001. That means the Necro blood line or darkness line, and the different druid lines don't stack with themselves.

Druids and Necros, don't cry it's classic, that's the way it was intended.

[DarthPeon]

L2Read

I suggest you learn to comprehend.

The retards you quoted did not understand they were overwriting their weaker dots with the stronger dot. And yes it does refer to all dots, it just so happens the example was made with the necro line by the original dev.

[Darwoth]

dots did not stack in classic, some new additions to the various lines did in kunark (winged death stacked with drifting death, splurt with whatever necro magic dot and so on)

[Castle]

DarthPeon, you're quoting 2002. I am quoting 2001. Their DoTs did stack. If your DoT wore off you would get a message, and getting the message of your old DoT wearing off when you cast a new one is pretty obvious kthx. If you got proof from 2001 or earlier, bring it. Your speculation doesn't change the truth; other Shamans and necros that shared shaman DoTs can attest to this.

L2Read.

PS You can easily notice changes in HP when you got 2 DoTs on versus 1, even without DoT messages.

[Lovely]

dots did not stack in classic, some new additions to the various lines did in kunark (winged death stacked with drifting death, splurt with whatever necro magic dot and so on)

[DarthPeon]

DarthPeon, you're quoting 2002. I am quoting 2001. Their DoTs did stack. If your DoT wore off you would get a message, and getting the message of your old DoT wearing off when you cast a new one is pretty obvious kthx. If you got proof from 2001 or earlier, bring it. Your speculation doesn't change the truth; other Shamans and necros that shared shaman DoTs can attest to this.

L2Read.

I am quoting original everquest developers stating that the multi class dot patch of 2002 still did not include inferior dots stacking with superior dots. You are merely taking fault with their choice of example. Do you expect them to spell out every dot and class to drive the point home? Those people you are quoting are confused. If you re-read my first response, the top link included also settled the matter on these servers through a bug submission.

Cheers

[Castle]

Quote the developers saying Shaman DoTs didn't stack. You're extending their quote to include something it doesn't say *shrug* The statements made by the devs and the statements made by multiple players during the era are not contradictory. Sorry brah, I played a shaman, I know.

[Nirgon]

Hello folks,

same dot lines cannot stack.


K sounds like it is working correctly, moving on now.

Insidious malady and plague should stack tho.

[valithteezee]

K sounds like it is working correctly, moving on now.

Insidious malady and plague should stack tho.

Lol, way to quote out of context. I posted this thread because I was unsure of the specifics, never stated anything in stone. What I've gathered so far is that druid and necro spells of the same line, DO NOT STACK. However, shaman spells, which are an exception to the general rule SHOULD be stacking. Several people who have played shamans have supported this statement. This is important because disease based dots are typically more mana efficient than our poison based dots and it would be beneficial to stack them, as originally intended.

Unless people can otherwise disprove my claim that same line shaman spells did not stack, I will continue to support my claim.

Saying that Shamans are OP already is completely irrelevant to the discussion and has no basis in this debate.

Although this server is not 100% classic it is intended to come as close as possible.

[Booglie]

my castered memory is that you couldnt stack dots from the same line back in the day, but as time moved on to late kunark and beyond it was irrelevant with most necro spells due to the damage differences, so it really is trying to think back a ways.
i definitely remember figuring out which necro was going to cast which dot when more than one was around because we couldnt land the same one on one target.

[Castle]

Final word on Shamans' DoTs.

http://web.archive.org/web/20020305002513/http://eq.castersrealm.com/spells/spell.asp?Id=1184
STACKING, By Falkar the everwalker (1/28/2001)

Yes, this spell will stack with others. All DOT spells of the same type do stack. Can it get any clearer?

http://web.archive.org/web/20020305002513/http://eq.castersrealm.com/spells/spell.asp?Id=1184
DOTS, By Scratchen (1/28/2001)

When I started EQ I played an Enchanter and use to cast thier DOT (Damage over Time) spell over and over thinking that it worked like a DD (Direct Damage). Now EQ has a message that indicates when the spell wears off, but along with these messages came a nerf. DOTS require that the subject be still in order to have the full effect. So dont be fooled by old messages about casting this awesome dot and then running around with SOW or something. You wont get the damage out of this spell unless the critter is holding still, and this includes when they start walking away from you. Make sure you cast this spell toward the beginning and dont recast it like I did. ID Use Blind or the Frosty spell to pull a critter, and then once you have it in front of you, this spell casts fast enough to get it in between punches. So everyone in the other posts who said they were stacking all received messages when DoTs wore off meaning if they overwrote the DoT they would know. This was the same time you got "did not take hold" message as well. This means whether they casted a higher or lower level spell they'd get a "wore off" or "did not take hold" message. It's highly unlikely all of these people could be that absentminded to grind 100s and 100s of mobs (with slow classic xp) and not notice these messages they receive every fight...

http://web.archive.org/web/20020811061322/http://eq.castersrealm.com/spells/spell.asp?Id=1114

ALL SHAMAN DOTS DO STACK
Posted: Sunday, May 05, 2002i have a lvl 20 shaman and my main is a 54 cleric. i have tried stacking all my dots onto myslef and the DO stack on myself other players and mobs. it is great at this lvl to stack all 3 of your dis dots you get. Hmmm... pretty clear.

http://web.archive.org/web/20020811061322/http://eq.castersrealm.com/spells/spell.asp?Id=1114


SPELL STACKING
Posted: Friday, March 01, 2002All Shaman spells Stack. Period. so in theory, Sickness, Tainted Breath, Affliction, Evenomed Breath,Scourge,Venom of the Snake,Evenomed Bolt, Plauge,Bane of Nife,and Pox of Bertoxxulous can ALL BE ON ONE MOB AT THE SAME TIME. every spell wills tack, poison, disease, AE, WHATEVER. try stuff before you post stuff. I can guarantee you you have not played a shaman to 19, or have not tried stacking 3 DoTs at ONCE!!! Sorry, got a little hot headed... but I hate it when people say things they dont know, have not tried, and care not to try. The more things change.. the more they stay the same, and history repeats itself. Dru, nec, enc telling us Shamans our DoTs don't stack lolz...

http://web.archive.org/web/20020811061322/http://eq.castersrealm.com/spells/spell.asp?Id=1114
BLAH
Posted: Friday, March 15, 2002All of your different poison DoTs will stack as well as all of your different disease DoTs. But if you're grouped with another shaman both of your tainted breath's won't stack. Word.

This case (in regards to Shaman DoTs) is closed.

[Melveny]

Dot stacking did not work in classic regardless of class, shamans wereno exception. Those links you post date 2001, that is 2 expansions later which sounds about right when this feature was added.

You obviously do not understand how much dps dot stacking can do, or you do Which is why you are fighting to have it implemented.

Allakazham patch notes should have a detail about "lesser dots of the same line now stack". I remember this specifically at raids, dot classes were mad not being able to dot raid targets if someone else already did as same line ds not stack even with other players ( or 2 shm can't poison same target) I'll find the reference later.

Same line dot stacking is not classic and would overpower 3 classes.

[Booglie]

Melveny's memory fits mine of the originial situation with dots, as a necro anyways.
all the quotes i see from patches or from old posts are all post expansion.
can't someone who cares way more than i do find anything from pre-kunark?

[Castle]

Melveny


The patch they quoted is July 2002.
My quotes are from January 2001, when Velious was only 1 month old.
There is no other patch from 1999-2002 that addresses any DoT changes in regards to stacking
Thus, the only logical explanation is that it was always this way.
Unless you can provide evidence earlier than Jan 01 that says otherwise.


Necros were mad and to a lesser extend druids. Shamans spent their time slowing and spot healing, they sometimes had time for DoTs. They were mad you can infinitely add mages/wiz for DPS, but 1-3 shamans could land all the shamans DoTs. Necros were mad their lines didn't stack and only 1 necro was needed. Wizards can constantly cast IC til OOM. Once Plague/Ebolts lands you could only stack weaker DoTs. It doesn't do as much damage as you would think.

Wizard nukes 1.2k per blast for 400 mana. With 2K mana he can drop 6k dmg in less than 45 seconds. A shaman's damage is over time. His top 2 DoTs do 2k. One takes over 2 minutes, 1 takes 42 seconds. You're blowing DoT'stacking as being imba way out of proportion.

Unless someone finds some new and contradictory info between end of '99 and beginning of '01 my conclusion still stands. Once again I am not arguing for Necros/Druids because the evidence is clear they had lines of DoTs that didn't stack. I have only proven Shamans DoTs all stacked since the beginning.

[Lovely]

Melveny


The patch they quoted is July 2002.
My quotes are from January 2001, when Velious was only 1 month old.
There is no other patch from 1999-2002 that addresses any DoT changes in regards to stacking
Thus, the only logical explanation is that it was always this way.
Unless you can provide evidence earlier than Jan 01 that says otherwise.


Necros were mad and to a lesser extend druids. Shamans spent their time slowing and spot healing, they sometimes had time for DoTs. They were mad you can infinitely add mages/wiz for DPS, but 1-3 shamans could land all the shamans DoTs. Necros were mad their lines didn't stack and only 1 necro was needed. Wizards can constantly cast IC til OOM. Once Plague/Ebolts lands you could only stack weaker DoTs. It doesn't do as much damage as you would think.

Wizard nukes 1.2k per blast for 400 mana. With 2K mana he can drop 6k dmg in less than 45 seconds. A shaman's damage is over time. His top 2 DoTs do 2k. One takes over 2 minutes, 1 takes 42 seconds. You're blowing DoT'stacking as being imba way out of proportion.

Unless someone finds some new and contradictory info between end of '99 and beginning of '01 my conclusion still stands. Once again I am not arguing for Necros/Druids because the evidence is clear they had lines of DoTs that didn't stack. I have only proven Shamans DoTs all stacked since the beginning.

This post makes no sense what so ever. Why are you even comparing a Wizard to a Healer/support/buff/dot class? Jesus you're stupid. Half the information you posted is even wrong.

You can throw 10 different nerfs to Shamans and they would still be the most fkin overpowered class in both PVE and PVP.

I don't even understand why people mention Wizard so much on this forum, most likely because of me. But it's like the most underpowered class in both PVE and PVP. Wizard can do 1 thing and that's nuke hard and go oom fast. Nothing else. It's a shit class especially in Classic when stuns or shock of lightning don't even work. A rogue is more powerful overall. There is a reason why Wizard is the least played class on Blue99 by MILES.

[dusk883]

Ex-necro and ex-enchanter reporting in with back in the day story time:

Necro dots same line didn't stack ever on TZ back in the day.

But if it does here, let's let Bard selos stack IMO

[valithteezee]

This post makes no sense what so ever. Why are you even comparing a Wizard to a Healer/support/buff/dot class? Jesus you're stupid. Half the information you posted is even wrong.

You can throw 10 different nerfs to Shamans and they would still be the most fkin overpowered class in both PVE and PVP.

I don't even understand why people mention Wizard so much on this forum, most likely because of me. But it's like the most underpowered class in both PVE and PVP. Wizard can do 1 thing and that's nuke hard and go oom fast. Nothing else. It's a shit class especially in Classic when stuns or shock of lightning don't even work. A rogue is more powerful overall. There is a reason why Wizard is the least played class on Blue99 by MILES.

His post is well thought out and articulate. You are not adding anything constructive to the argument. I would prefer if you stop shitting up my post with OP flames. Castle mentions several times that shamans are the only exception to the rule of dot stacking. Whether this was a bug or intentional by the DEV's to have all shaman buffs stack is a different argument.

[Lovely]

His post is well thought out and articulate. You are not adding anything constructive to the argument. I would prefer if you stop shitting up my post with OP flames. Castle mentions several times that shamans are the only exception to the rule of dot stacking. Whether this was a bug or intentional by the DEV's to have all shaman buffs stack is a different argument.

I would have if he didn't make some Shaman/Wizard comparison that made no sense at all and had nothing to do with the point he was trying to make.

[Castle]

I was making the point that DoT stacking like it did in classic wouldn't be OP, as someone here claimed. The comparison is perfectly fitting because shamans are DoT champs and wizards are nuke champs, so comparing DoTs vs nukes, shamans vs wiz is a suitable comparison. I'll post my comparison in a few minutes.

[Lovely]

Let me do it for you. Both Ebolt and Plague do more damage then an Ice comet, has less cast time, PR/DR resist items are lacking so everyone will ignore those resist and aim for high MR/FR/CR. On top of that Shaman got the best buffs in the game, heals, cures, pet and an answer for everything any class can do. That's the PVP comparison for you

[keto]

Please clarify please... You are quoting posts from 2001 on how DoTs behaved in 1999? Find quotes from 1999 instead of one month before Velious.

[Castle]

Keto, the Devs are basing their system on a vague patch message from 2002. I am 1.5 years earlier than them. The burden of proof isn't on me to prove myself wrong. If there exists earlier posts that's great. I can't prove something doesn't exist though. I can say there are no patch messages prior to Jan of 2001 (1 month after velious release) that address DoT stacking for Shamans or any class. Which means the evidence I provided is the most accurate we have. The burden of proof rests on those who believe such earlier evidence exists.

Lovely, a wiz can blow 6k of damage via IC in 45 seconds or less with 2k of mana about ~133 DPS
A shaman can do 6.5k of dmg with Plague and Scourge once and Ebolt and VoS 3 times each somewhere around 2 minutes and 45 seconds, or ~40 DPS with 2k of mana. Wiz dump almost the same amount of dmg and it can't be cured....

And you do realize classic IC 1.2k is more damage than Ebolt, right?

Lovely, QQ less about Shamans being OP.

[keto]

Keto, the Devs are basing their system on a vague patch message from 2002. I am 1.5 years earlier than them. The burden of proof isn't on me to prove myself wrong. If there exists earlier posts that's great. I can't prove something doesn't exist though. I can say there are no patch messages prior to Jan of 2001 (1 month after velious release) that address DoT stacking for Shamans or any class. Which means the evidence I provided is the most accurate we have. The burden of proof rests on those who believe such earlier evidence exists.

This isn't a court room. Devs don't have to prove anything to you. Claiming the Devs are wrong by pointing out forum posts from a different era than the server is intended to exist makes for a very weak argument. Especially when it is in direct conflict with how the majority of this forum remembers classic. I would say that if you want to prove the issue decisively than find posts which are dated pre-Kunark and try again.

[Lovely]

I give up, you're doing retarded comparisons again that makes no sense at all. A DPS class VS A SUPPORT CLASS.

The way you compare things is if we're raiding a fkin Dragon on a PVE server. You're even using PVE damage and not PVP damage and finally I don't know how 1120 Ice comet is 1.2k and not 1.1k. Maybe that's how you round up things in the US i dunno.

Finally you still haven't proved anything at all that Shaman dots stacked in Classic.

[Jotok]

Shaman DoTs did stack in classic

[Salty]

Druid dots not stacking is annoying as fuck.

Druid stuns being outdoor only is annoying as fuck too.

[Jotok]

Here is Blart from classic RZ talking about PvP during the early days. He talks about stacking dots on people.

http://www.notacult.com/guide_trollshaman.html

If there are people out looking for you, it should be assumed they are prepared with generic magic/fire/cold resistances. When attacking prepared opponents, go with disease debuffs, disease spells and direct damage. If they are resisting the disease spell, keep slamming away at the disease debuff – it’s fast casting and will eventually stick on even the most resistant players. Below level 40, few players have good poison resist, so you may want to give poison a shot as well. At level 50, I like to stack two disease dots on them (scourge + plague).

[Salty]

Here is Blart from classic RZ talking about PvP during the early days. He talks about stacking dots on people.

http://www.notacult.com/guide_trollshaman.html

If there are people out looking for you, it should be assumed they are prepared with generic magic/fire/cold resistances. When attacking prepared opponents, go with disease debuffs, disease spells and direct damage. If they are resisting the disease spell, keep slamming away at the disease debuff – it’s fast casting and will eventually stick on even the most resistant players. Below level 40, few players have good poison resist, so you may want to give poison a shot as well. At level 50, I like to stack two disease dots on them (scourge + plague).

confirmed

[Lovely]

It's a guide made several years after Classic. He even states so himself in the guide

[XiakenjaTZ]

I think the general consensus is that on live in classic:

Shamans could stake poison with poison and disease with disease.
Necros and Druids could not.

[Salty]

It's a guide made several years after Classic. He even states so himself in the guide

not confirmed

[Castle]

Keto keto.. where do I start.

This isn't a court room. Devs don't have to prove anything to you. Claiming the Devs are wrong by pointing out forum posts from a different era than the server is intended to exist makes for a very weak argument. It's their server they can do what they want, no doubt. I'm glad they have taken charge and made an awesome server. I won't be quiet though if it's clear as day. So my evidence from 1 month after velious' release (which will be part of the era this server was intended for) is less relevant than the patch they cite that is 1.5 years after my source sometime in Luclin (an era we will never reach.) The point is multiple sources, from an earlier date say one thing. The patch they cite does not contradict this; only their vague application of what the patch says to something it doesn't mention. If the patch or some other EQ Dev source clearly said Shaman DoTs didn't stack, fine. That's not the case.

I would say that if you want to prove the issue decisively than find posts which are dated pre-Kunark and try again. Once again, the burden of proof is on YOU. I'm showing you the earliest posts we have, thus far. To contradict these, you must find later posts that note a change that clearly indicate in prior to the time of the posts I found things were different, or find an earlier post that clearly state things were different. I won't prove your point for you. Coming at this subject unbiasly, you go to the most accurate and earliest evidence. That is the evidence I have provided.

Especially when it is in direct conflict with how the majority of this forum remembers classic. ??? Real posts from the era > our memories. I will leave you with an Uthgaard (Dev) quote.

No one posted a single thing about the dots stacking when they shouldn't have. No one posts about anything that gives them an advantage. But when it's a disadvantage, the forums get spammed with 'but I remember this!'

Lovely, sure overall Shamans are beefy. I am simply stating their DPS doesn't come close to Wizards.

Jotok, ace. How many final nails do we gotta hammer in this cofin? Shit...

[keto]

Lets be clear here, I'm not arguing AGAINST Shaman DoT stacking nor trying to attack you. I am merely trying to coach you into making a better argument to the Dev team. Jotok definitely wins for the being the first person to provide some meaningful information from classic, kudos.

[Lovely]

Shaman actually have a lot higher DPS then a Wizard overtime so that information is very false.

If a GM put a static mob with 100k hp in front of a Shaman and a Wizard the Shaman would probably kill it when the Wizard got over 50% of the hp left. Using buffs/pet/dots/cannibalize/Melee

[Lovely]

I don't even care of Shaman dots stack or not. But there is still no proof about it and if you want it changed then you better find some.

I just attack when people spread false Wizard information!

[Castle]

Keto, it is very convincing. Earliest Archive is 2002, it's sometime between Vanilla and Velious, but you might of missed my post with several sources from January 2001, only 1 month after Velious' release.

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showpost.php?p=465110&postcount=28

Lovely, once again, whoever has the earliest clear evidence has the strongest case. If that's how it was in Velious and we can't find anything in patch messages or posts between Vanilla and Velious.. why should we believe otherwise? The earliest evidence says they stacked. What proves otherwise?

Wizards have better burst DPS, but yes DoTs are slightly more efficient and Shamans will kill 100k mobs faster than a wizard.

News flash The most HP something in Vanilla had was 32k hp, of which well geared wizard's could theoretically drop 19% with 2k mana... and no wiz or shaman could solo it; and for DPS wizard are always preferable. Your example has no bearing on the issue.

[Doors]

It's in the Prima Strategy guide for Kunark that shaman can stack poison and disease dots. They can't however stack multiple poison or disease.

[Castle]

http://www.amazon.com/EverQuest-Kunark-Primas-Official-Strategy/dp/0761522840/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top
Let's look at 13 of 30 Amazon.com reviews from different individuals of the guide.
By the way, the guide's average Amazon rating of is 1 star


"Apocryphal, or at Least Wildly Inaccurate"
"At first I thought this book was awesome... until I realized how many mistakes (in spelling, missing sections, inaccurate information, incomplete information, etc.) there were."
"Can't compete with the FREE EverQuest web sites!"
"It not half as bad that a lot of people have posted here on the online reviews. That said, there are far too many mistakes in the book to recommend it to new players of the game."
"The maps are inaccurate, and the item tables are VERY incomplete with some magical items listed, but none of the usefull stats on those items are listed. Spells are listed, but casting times and damage amounts are wrong for many of them. The class iformation is wrong, in at least one case listing the wrong prime statistics for a class, which can seriously hurt you later later in the game."
"Most of the information is not even correct. I was extremely dissapointed. Verant should make the publisher recall this book."
"This is not a strategy guide... it is an attempt by Prima to reach into your wallet and remove [the amount of money] for nothing more than a pretty colored cover with the name EverQuest®, and Kunark."
"You know it's a bad sign when the game publisher releases a statement denying any responsibility for the accuracy of the "official" strategy guide before the book publisher even has the guide on store shelves as was the case this time."
"This book has several MAJOR flaws which make it not worth your money at all. First, a good portion of the information is downright wrong. Typoes abound, and zones have been switched from continent to continent." ((Lol, this one made me laugh))
"Full of incorrect information that was obvious had the writers *ever* played the game at all. This is the *official* strategy guide backed by the publisher!"
"If you can use your browser to read this review......then you can also use it to search for websites that have up to date and A-C-C-U-R-A-T-E information on the game of Everquest. To bad the folks who put this book together didn't try that first."
"The facts are wrong. So why buy it?"
"Please, for the sake of your sanity, run FAR away from this book. Save your money, buy 2 more months of EQ instead. Surf and search the web, byou will find more and better (and MORE ACCURATE) information."


Maybe the last reader might of found http://www.notacult.com/guide_trollshaman.html more useful? :D

[Lovely]

It's in the Prima Strategy guide for Kunark that shaman can stack poison and disease dots. They can't however stack multiple poison or disease.

Prima Strategy guide in the lead!

[valithteezee]

Here is Blart from classic RZ talking about PvP during the early days. He talks about stacking dots on people.

http://www.notacult.com/guide_trollshaman.html

If there are people out looking for you, it should be assumed they are prepared with generic magic/fire/cold resistances. When attacking prepared opponents, go with disease debuffs, disease spells and direct damage. If they are resisting the disease spell, keep slamming away at the disease debuff – it’s fast casting and will eventually stick on even the most resistant players. Below level 40, few players have good poison resist, so you may want to give poison a shot as well. At level 50, I like to stack two disease dots on them (scourge + plague).

http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2010/4/1/129145900545959724.jpg

[Truth]

Here is Blart from classic RZ talking about PvP during the early days. He talks about stacking dots on people.

http://www.notacult.com/guide_trollshaman.html

If there are people out looking for you, it should be assumed they are prepared with generic magic/fire/cold resistances. When attacking prepared opponents, go with disease debuffs, disease spells and direct damage. If they are resisting the disease spell, keep slamming away at the disease debuff – it’s fast casting and will eventually stick on even the most resistant players. Below level 40, few players have good poison resist, so you may want to give poison a shot as well. At level 50, I like to stack two disease dots on them (scourge + plague).

You can't argue against Blart. He was best PvP shaman of the era.

http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2010/4/1/129145900545959724.jpg

[Castle]

Today, 03:49 PM: Prima Strategy guide in the lead!
It's okay, you musta just missed my post, brah.
Today, 03:49 PM: http://www.project1999.org/forums/showpost.php?p=465255&postcount=55

Or as one person who reviewed the guide said...

This book is horrible. It isn't filled with "errata," and it's not rife with mere typographical errors. Simply put, it's atrociously misinformative and is so incorrect on fundamental game issues that I can't believe Verant actually read it. It is wrong--just blatantly WRONG

[gloinz]

not confirmed

flip flopper

[Castle]

Don't forget bros..

One of the downsides of being a halfling is the experience penalty. (http://www.amazon.com/review/R2UJSPED72MPTY/ref=cm_cr_pr_perm?ie=UTF8&ASIN=0761522840&nodeID=&tag=&linkCode=)

And Gnomes start in Misty Thicket (http://www.amazon.com/review/R14NSCON4DSPEK/ref=cm_cr_pr_perm?ie=UTF8&ASIN=0761522840&nodeID=&tag=&linkCode=).. in case you forgot.

[Truth]

Not worth the toilet paper its printed on

[Lovely]

Once you're in the lead someone have to pass you to get in front.

[gloinz]

Once you're in the lead someone have to pass you to get in front.

or ram you in the back









































chicka chicka bow wow

[Silikten]

Stupid poll. It has already been discussed, classic = dots do not stack, deal with it.

[Castle]

Silikten,
L2Read
Sincerely,
Castle

[Bazia]

Castle sounding desperate while also rolling the most OP PvP class, pretty sad lol.

[Castle]

Spot on bro, super desperation mode right now... lol, hope you keep that name for live cutie ;) Actually I am contemplating Ranger.. so.. ya.. not Op.. bro.. ya...

[Bkab]

I could have sworn that shaman disease Dots always stacked. I played one from 99-02, and in blart's shaman guide, not sure when it was posted, sometime right after kunark came out maybe? he is saying under the what spells should i use in pvp

If they are resisting the disease spell, keep slamming away at the disease debuff – it’s fast casting and will eventually stick on even the most resistant players. Below level 40, few players have good poison resist, so you may want to give poison a shot as well. At level 50, I like to stack two disease dots on them (scourge + plague)

and this is how i always thought it was. i could be wrong tho but i specifically remember stacking scourge and plague on people all the time when ebolt wasn't landing.

[Dfn]

Shaman could dot stack in classic. Others couldnt. Deal with it.

[Amuk]

or ram you in the back
chicka chicka bow wow

that shit cracked me up

[Melveny]

Regarding dot's 66% reduction on moving targets

DoT Changes:
- If the monster is in melee with you, there is no change to how a DoT
spell works.
- If the monster is running away from you (fear, wounded, etc.), there
is no change to how a DoT spell works.
- If the monster is moving when the damage from the DoT is applied
(happens every few seconds), it will take 66% of the damage that it
would have taken.
- DoT spells have all had their duration slightly increased. If the
monster moves for 18 seconds during a fight, it will take as much
damage from the DoT as it would before the patch. If the monster moves
for less then 18 seconds during a fight, your DoT will do more damage
then it would have done before the patch. If the monster moves more
then 18 seconds during the fight, it will take less damage then it
would have before the patch.

Source: http://everquest.allakhazam.com/history/patches-1999.html



** Spell Stacking Changes **

We've made two changes to the way spells stack.

Damage Over Time (DoT) spells are spells that linger on the target
doing damage. Until today two different characters could not have the
same DoT spell on the same target. As long as one copy of the spell was
active any new version of the spell would not take hold. After today
the same DoT spell cast by different casters can affect the same target
at the same time. Also, if you cast a DoT spell on a target and you
already have that spell active on it, the spell will refresh. (Note: It
will not be possible to stack Lifeburn).

This does not allow for inferior spells to stack along with superior
spells. (Example: Two Necromancers can both land Boil Blood on the same
target. However, Heat Blood, being an inferior spell, will still not
stack.)

Reference: http://everquest.allakhazam.com/history/patches-2002-2.html

[Toehammer]

Quite bluntly... shamans were unique in classic EQ because they could stack DoTs from the same line... whereas necros and druids could not. (although I think at some point winged death and the other stacked). I know this because I played a shaman in classic up to late 30s, and my 2 best friends played necro and druid. I remember stacking affliction and scourge... all the god damn time. I also have vivid memories of in-game and real-life discussions about how even though necros got some of the SAME DoTs as shamans, that they could not stack DoTs from the same line. SHAMANS WERE UNIQUE in classic. Period... anyone who says otherwise is very misinformed and never played one or has such a bad memory they don't remember one of the key strategies for the class.

Everything I am saying is backed up by other shaman players in classic, Sephin and Slambooie (a mod):

http://www.eqclassic.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=312&p=24126

Lovely... I don't know why you are putting up such resistance; it is clear you never played a shaman in classic, or knew the class well. I understand and sympathize with you that shamans are a bit OP in classic, but hey... this server is classic :)

Castle... it is counterproductive to bring up wizards, especially against someone with a vested interest in them. It derails the thread and diminishes your point... which is 100% true, SHAMANS COULD STACK DOTS IN CLASSIC.

[Bkab]

Lovely puts up furious resistance against any change which does not directly benefit her in some way. He has absolutely no idea if they stacked or not, he is just raging because in his mind wizards should also get ebolt on top of ice comet and have the same hp as a warrior. They should also get selos as well.

[Melveny]

I have a forum post from your exact same page, eqclassics dating 2002 with ten discussing the recently implemented dot stacking, and specifically mention shamans.

I figured eq patch notes were Sufficient and not random Joe's on a forum, I will post later.

[Lovely]

Lovely puts up furious resistance against any change which does not directly benefit her in some way. He has absolutely no idea if they stacked or not, he is just raging because in his mind wizards should also get ebolt on top of ice comet and have the same hp as a warrior. They should also get selos as well.

Okay stupid. I've already stated that I don't give a flying fuck if dots stack or not. Let them stack I really don't care. I only responded to the retard who kept making some Shaman/Wizard comparisons that made no sense at all. But I'll be sure to put up a resistance against anything you're for since you're a dumbass.

[Amuk]

Another thread clueless Lovely is spamming how nice.

I played sham in classic, named Gaanon on TZ. Dots would stack for shamans because I would often stack plague/scourge on necros with DMF, and stay out of range for lifetaps.

Whatever my memories worth, I know Null most likely won't change shit without proof

[Lovely]

Another thread where Amuk stalks Lovely. The obsession is getting stronger by the day. Starting to think that my forum profile is on your favorite bookmarks.

[Doors]

You idiots can argue all you want that prima's kunark strategy guide sucks as a reference for information but whenever it came to game mechanics it was correct.

Shaman could stack poison and disease dots but not multiple poison or disease dots.

[Amuk]

You shit up 95% of the threads here, it'd be more amazing if I posted in a thread where you didn't have some retarded rage spam in it.

[Amuk]

Meh not reading this prima guide, and don't really give a fuck about shamans~

[Castle]

You idiots can argue all you want that prima's kunark strategy guide sucks as a reference for information but whenever it came to game mechanics it was correct.

Shaman could stack poison and disease dots but not multiple poison or disease dots. Sure brah, in the same Norrath where Gnomes begin in Misty Thicket and Halflings have an exp penalty... Real accurate. Sounds like someone is tryna confirm their bias without doing any legwork. Next.

I have a forum post from your exact same page, eqclassics dating 2002 with ten discussing the recently implemented dot stacking, and specifically mention shamans.

I figured eq patch notes were Sufficient and not random Joe's on a forum, I will post later. It's not about authority, brah, it's about accuracy. A quote from Einstein about candy bars means jack shit if we're talking specific special relativity. Devs never said Shamans can't stack all their DoTs. I've provided a slew of evidence in the Bugs thread. It's overwhelming and clear from multiple sources, even ran tests in game proving it. Here's a snippet from the other thread...

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On the Beta server I tested and validated the numbers from a source I linked. It is shockingly accurate. I show through simple observation at the end he was clearly stacking DoTs, or he would have had different numbers. In other words, INC Haymaker 2.0.. 1.0 was already a knockout, 2.0 is just for show.

web.archive.org/web/20020113123314/http://eq.castersrealm.com/spells/spelldescriptions.asp?Id=1141&Page=2


WHY EB TILL 49???, By Nuuk warchyld (the sacred) rodcet nife (1/28/2001)

Mobs that are level 35 or so like, Dorfs, Ein, Guards etc.. have roughly 1700 hit points. Therefore after level 39 (Venom of Snake) an efficient mana way of killing these mobs is as follows: Lure with Scourge (550dmg), VoS(460dmg), EB(220dmg), ROOT, VoS(460dmg) after 42 seconds. Root to keep mob still to get full dmg from dots in. With out EB you would come up short about 150 dmg therefore having to waste mana on a blast that could get resisted or VoS which takes more mana than EB. With this series of spells you can get right till level 48 killing those mobs with minimal mana loss and downtime. and dont forget to med while waiting for mobs to die. I have used this method on dorfs and lose only 1 bubble of mana per mob i kill. I keep just ahead of 5 dorfs at a time. thats roughly a dorf ever 4 mins with almost no down time since i med between dots not fights. Try it it works great!

I tested these numbers and here is what I found.

First, I checked the spell damage. His spell damage numbers are exact except you can tell he rounded the 1s place so his numbers above have 0s (ex: 219=220.)

Secondly, and more importantly I tested (on the Beta server) his exact strategy on the exact mobs he camped. I had to wait between DoTs because they aren't stacking correctly currently, so it took longer, but damage was the same.

Test 1 -- Target: Balen Kalgun -- Location: BB Docks
Pull with Scourge. Root. With with VoS. Waited for VoS. Hit with Ebreath. Waited for Ebreath to wear off. His with Final VoS. Mob just barely died I think on the last tic of VoS. Exactly as he predicted.
Pictures one (http://i43.tinypic.com/aw2ogn.jpg), two (http://oi40.tinypic.com/242hni9.jpg), three (http://i40.tinypic.com/242hni9.jpg) & four (http://i41.tinypic.com/2il0niq.jpg)

Test 2 -- Target: Thar Kelgand -- Location: BB Docks
Same strategy as above. Same result as above. This dude knew his stuff. Changed UI to make it clearer and got it in 2 screenshots: one (http://i43.tinypic.com/rt2lx5.jpg) & two (http://i42.tinypic.com/1zzn0o.jpg)

Test 3: -- Target: Magnus Boran -- Location: BB Docks
Since he said "With out EB you would come up short about 150 dmg" I tested it without EB to see how much the mob had left. 8% and it took 2 DDs for 82 dmg (162dmg) to kill the mob... The guy was dead on.
Pictures: one (http://i39.tinypic.com/m2alv.jpg) & two (http://i44.tinypic.com/5d70x3.jpg)

Proof is in the pudding lads. On my 2nd 80dmg blast to finish off the final 150 dmg this guy mentions.

http://i42.tinypic.com/2z5nklw.jpg

If you're a little slow you may be thinking at this point "so what, what does that prove besides he knew their HP?" Well, he only knew their HP because he stacked the DoTs. If the EBreath didn't stack with VoS the mobs would still have 150hp left whether he decided to cast it while VoS was active or to not cast it all. However, as he states, that was not the case. The mobs only had 150hp left if he didn't stack Ebreath with VoS. In classic and even now IIRC these mobs were always level 35, they always spawned with the same hp; it's the perfect constant for an experiment like this.

In my test I used the spells he said and they had the same result, except I couldn't stack them because the Devs haven't fixed it yet. He's obviously stacking multiple poison DoTs according to his description. He makes no mention of waiting inbetween Scourge and VoS, or VoS and Ebreath, only to wait 42 seconds for the 2nd VoS (which is how long the 1st VoS takes to run its course.) Once again if that Ebreath didn't stack.. there'd still be about 150hp left on the mobs. Life mob versus dead mob = pretty easy to discern the difference, bros.

It's quite simple, but I recommend slow people read that again. There you have it, another proof justified.

It's overwhelmingly clear. When you fixing this, Devs?

[DarthPeon]

Castle's selective testing moved me to a response. For those interested, you can find it in the bug submission thread.

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showpost.php?p=466101&postcount=35

He preaches with a religious fervor second only to Harold Camping (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/01/harold-camping-apologizes-rapture-predictions_n_1069520.html)

Praise Jesus!

[dogbarf]

This resist system already makes shaman dots retarded op. They used to have a very high resist rate. 70+pr meant it was probably going to take a few casts.

Unlike nukes dots arent partialed as far as I know. Shamans don't need any more help, two dots will already kill pretty much any non healer.

[Melveny]

I wonder how many threads used your exact same argument for blue99.

It's not happening.

You keep shooting down others argument strictly based of the word shaman not beig used. All dot changes refer to "Dots" catagory, not "Shaman Dots" "Necromancer Dots" or "Druid Dots".

Sorry if you consider this unacceptable. Provide actual Sony / verant information stating it's classic and not people's opinion, then we'll talk.

[gloinz]

This resist system already makes shaman dots retarded op. They used to have a very high resist rate. 70+pr meant it was probably going to take a few casts.

Unlike nukes dots arent partialed as far as I know. Shamans don't need any more help, two dots will already kill pretty much any non healer.

and some healers without cures for disease (noble paladins)

[Truth]

Who cares if shamans are OP. They're supposed to fucking be

There may never be another mass-market RPG that is so PvP imbalanced ever again, so enjoy it now.

[...]

Before kunark, level 49-50 shaman were the most powerful PvP class in the game.

[gloinz]

Who cares if shamans are OP. They're supposed to fucking be

not not classic

[Toehammer]

I wonder how many threads used your exact same argument for blue99.

It's not happening.

You keep shooting down others argument strictly based of the word shaman not beig used. All dot changes refer to "Dots" catagory, not "Shaman Dots" "Necromancer Dots" or "Druid Dots".

Sorry if you consider this unacceptable. Provide actual Sony / verant information stating it's classic and not people's opinion, then we'll talk.

tl;dr DUDE THE EARTH IS FLAT... YOU NEED TO PROVIDE ME WITH EVIDENCE BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW ANY BETTER

Castle... you now understand how it feels to know the truth and others are just hiding behind the "derp derp must provide concrete evidence that anything before Arpil 12th 2000 at 7:42:34.55559595943s is not sufficient, because I say so"

Clearly none of these trolls know a shaman from their... well, ya

Best of luck trying to convince the morons! You are on your own now... no time for me to waste on these fools; keep fighting the good fight!

[Melveny]

tl;dr DUDE THE EARTH IS FLAT... YOU NEED TO PROVIDE ME WITH EVIDENCE BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW ANY BETTER

Castle... you now understand how it feels to know the truth and others are just hiding behind the "derp derp must provide concrete evidence that anything before Arpil 12th 2000 at 7:42:34.55559595943s is not sufficient, because I say so"

Clearly none of these trolls know a shaman from their... well, ya

Best of luck trying to convince the morons! You are on your own now... no time for me to waste on these fools; keep fighting the good fight!

With a response like this, I don't have to say much.

Derp. Derp.

[pickled_heretic]

seriously, prima guides are notoriously terrible. i don't really care about the stacking dots or whatever but if someone is trying to use a prima guide as a source for how everquest i just have this to say:

L O L

[gloinz]

seriously, prima guides are notoriously terrible. i don't really care about the stacking dots or whatever but if someone is trying to use a prima guide as a source for how everquest i just have this to say:

L O L

gotta use 2 book sources and 2 web sources for the works cited bro

[Castle]

You keep shooting down others argument strictly based of the word shaman not beig used. All dot changes refer to "Dots" catagory, not "Shaman Dots" "Necromancer Dots" or "Druid Dots".

Sorry if you consider this unacceptable. Provide actual Sony / verant information stating it's classic and not people's opinion, then we'll talk. Not true. People (here) who weren't shamans using personal anecdotes are obviously less weighty than shamans, but my argument stands completely on unbiased classic observations, not today's players' opinions.

One vague reference that doesn't specifically mention Shamans, nor would since they are the exception, does not refute an overwhelming Tsunami of unbiased eye witness accounts. Quoting, Stroustrap on C++ pointers may have a lot of weight, unless your using it to prove something about loops. Authority means nothing if the quote isn't specific enough. I provided evidence of someone clearly stacking DoTs and using it to calculate mobs HPs and I calculated it myself on Beta. If the spells didn't stack and he didn't realize it, his numbers would be wrong. Not opinion. Fact.

Fix, please.

[Hangerbaby]

Not true. People (here) who weren't shamans using personal anecdotes are obviously less weighty than shamans, but my argument stands completely on unbiased classic observations, not today's players' opinions.

One vague reference that doesn't specifically mention Shamans, nor would since they are the exception, does not refute an overwhelming Tsunami of unbiased eye witness accounts. Quoting, Stroustrap on C++ pointers may have a lot of weight, unless your using it to prove something about loops. Authority means nothing if the quote isn't specific enough. I provided evidence of someone clearly stacking DoTs and using it to calculate mobs HPs and I calculated it myself on Beta. If the spells didn't stack and he didn't realize it, his numbers would be wrong. Not opinion. Fact.

Fix, please.
This has got to be the worst attempt at concluding an argument that I've ever seen.

Look, it is well documented that there was a patch that allowed for multiple dots per line to be applied. It is not documented at all that it was in the game beforehand by any figure of authority. The burden of proof is on you. Calculating HP with dots hasn't the least to do with changing server code to please you.

[Castle]

This has got to be the worst attempt at concluding an argument that I've ever seen.

Look, it is well documented that there was a patch that allowed for multiple dots per line to be applied. It is not documented at all that it was in the game beforehand by any figure of authority. The burden of proof is on you. Calculating HP with dots hasn't the least to do with changing server code to please you. You missed it bro. Even DarthPeon agreed with me on this one. The 2002 patch does not say that it allowed for multiple DoTs to stack per line. It says now that EXACT same DoT from 2 different necros or druids, etc.

You read wrong.

[Tassador]

IGNITE BLOOD IS SO SICK.. Also i zoned with ignite blood and about 13% health and i took a fall for 32000 dmg and lost pve exp... Love it just like classic!!!!!!

[valithteezee]

At this point it seems pretty clear that shaman dot's were able to stack. It's up to the dev's to determine if they think this was a bug all along or something that was done on purpose and is a unique aspect of the class. Bottom line.

The dev's need to decide if they want to keep the integrity of the classic experience or change it to the way they see fit. That's really what is important here.

Honestly, I could care less either way, this will not make or break the defining role of the Shaman.

[Lovely]

Prima guide is the n1 source for all relevant Everquest information

[Melveny]

At this point it seems pretty clear that shaman dot's were able to stack. It's up to the dev's to determine if they think this was a bug all along or something that was done on purpose and is a unique aspect of the class. Bottom line.

The dev's need to decide if they want to keep the integrity of the classic experience or change it to the way they see fit. That's really what is important here.

Honestly, I could care less either way, this will not make or break the defining role of the Shaman.

What are you talking about??? You use nice words but the "bottom line" is all evidence provided has NOT been concrete enough to back up your statements to make 1 class have a game breaking advantage.

Are we reading the same thread or are you delusional?

[Dfn]

What are you talking about??? You use nice words but the "bottom line" is all evidence provided has NOT been concrete enough to back up your statements to make 1 class have a game breaking advantage.

Are we reading the same thread or are you delusional?


Read the thread in the bug forums or do your own research. How many more sources do we need to cite for you to be convinced? Is it not enough to have direct quotes from multiple PvP Shamans from classic, citations from credible sources such as Shaman's Crucible, and dozens of references to Shaman dot stacking on various player-driven sites.

What is YOUR proof? You are relying on ONE vaguely written patch note that mentions neither Shaman nor Shaman DoTs. Druids and Necros are both specifically talked about in multiple locations whereas Shaman have never been mentioned. Why? Because it was common fucking knowledge to everyone that played a Shaman. Pick any website commonly used back in ~2000 and try to not find any posts that say Shaman dots stack. Think of it like a challenge.

[Knuckle]

Were talking away, I don't know what I'm to say, I'll say it anyway.
Todays another day to find you shying away. I'll be coming for you love, okay?

[Melveny]

Read the thread in the bug forums or do your own research. How many more sources do we need to cite for you to be convinced? Is it not enough to have direct quotes from multiple PvP Shamans from classic, citations from credible sources such as Shaman's Crucible, and dozens of references to Shaman dot stacking on various player-driven sites.

What is YOUR proof? You are relying on ONE vaguely written patch note that mentions neither Shaman nor Shaman DoTs. Druids and Necros are both specifically talked about in multiple locations whereas Shaman have never been mentioned. Why? Because it was common fucking knowledge to everyone that played a Shaman. Pick any website commonly used back in ~2000 and try to not find any posts that say Shaman dots stack. Think of it like a challenge.

You guys finally got your heads out of eachothers asses and provided VALID information from castersrealm a publically known good source. About time, what took so long? Do REAL research the first time and you won't need two 7 page threads.

Thanks for finally taking the time to do actual research that matters, from a source that matters, and not quoting leveling guide 101.

Just sayin.