Hyrbid Mana Pools

[Not_Kazowi]

are they still stupid high or did they get fixed? what should they be like in classic?

[Nuk3Afr1ca]

I think that's a titanium client issue that can't be changed. That's why they have 5000 hp during kunark on the new EQ live progression server.

Seeing as how shadowknights only lifetap for 45 damage, and the only really powerful spell is paladin Gheal, it doesn't seem like that big of a deal.

[Lovely]

Since when do Shadow Knights only lifetap for 45 damage.

[Authority]

Since always. highest lifetap hits for 200ish, but has a two min recast time. also costs a fuck ton of mana. not really a big deal. second best lifetap hits for i think 40 or so.


edit: lovely, you really have no clue about any other classes do you...

[Not_Kazowi]

its a big deal when a paladin can heal 20 times, i just remember it being really bad on vztz. was just curious as to what the deal was

[minakto]

If their mana pool is wrong and it cant be fixed then make their spells cost 5% more then they should to compensate for their innaccurate manapool

[Tarwine]

Nothing to see here, move along.

[Darwoth]

yeah on live didnt seem like a paladin could cast a heal more than 3 or 4 times without going out of mana, will be pretty lame if they have the same manapool as priest classes. the difference between being able to heal 3 - 4 times vs 15 is a huge difference and will completely reposition them in terms of pvp strength.

this issue will be even worse with the expansions as they get stronger heals.

[Null]

If their mana pool is wrong and it cant be fixed then make their spells cost 5% more then they should to compensate for their innaccurate manapool

We have code in place to do this, but I don't think its actually active.

[Tumdumm]

1k mana with gear at 50 is too much? brb checkin some stuff

[Lovely]

I vote on the way it was in Classic.

[Tumdumm]

1 big tap takes 1/3rd of mana bar on red, seems classic to me

[Knuckle]

I think that's a titanium client issue that can't be changed. That's why they have 5000 hp during kunark on the new EQ live progression server.

Seeing as how shadowknights only lifetap for 45 damage, and the only really powerful spell is paladin Gheal, it doesn't seem like that big of a deal.

sounds like someone is playing a hybrid

[gloinz]

sounds like someone is playing a hybrid

https://encrypted-tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQei_eDKcwyypG-6CkEjR0zsYqdo_GcbB4N0v7C89Fsi-EH8OZvug

[Hovis]

Nothing to see here, move along.

hahaha =P

[Smedy]

Would be cool if this was fixed asap if the code is already there.

The question is how much more each spell should take in mana to make up for the hybrid class.

About +20%? i honestly have no idea.

[Danien]

We have code in place to do this, but I don't think its actually active.

Did you take into account that the solution as it is currently stated nerfs +mana items for hybrids?

[Palemoon]

I remember my troll SK back in 1999 not being able to cast his lvl 9 pet untill level 10 or 11. Mana was so low.

edit: and to add insult to injury, most of those SK lifetap spells were added in after launch AND in the name of "balance" they had special mana cost multipliers to them.

[Nuk3Afr1ca]

I remember my troll SK back in 1999 not being able to cast his lvl 9 pet untill level 10 or 11. Mana was so low.

Sounds like bullshit to me. A level 4 necro casting his pet would probably take 40-50% of his mana bar or something. If your statement was true, a level 9 SK would have 3/8th's to 1/3rd the mana of a level 4 necro.
I could see hybrids having 1/2 the mana of an equal level caster, but not like 1/4th the mana of a caster 1/2 your level.

[tsaC]

i like how wehrmacht says its not that big of a deal

im not here to educate you bro, but you have no fucking clue lol

[Nuk3Afr1ca]

i like how wehrmacht says its not that big of a deal

im not here to educate you bro, but you have no fucking clue lol

People are trying to compare trolls with like 60int to DE necros with 130int as a basis for hybrid mana.

Dump points into INT on a DE SK and I'm sure you would see very different results in mana pool differences.

[Doors]

Wormcheck LOLOL

[Nuk3Afr1ca]

I played a human paladin pre-kunark for a while. I think I remember each heal spell taking 1 bubble of mana around level 20-30 (out of 5 total). At higher levels, it was probably similar for Gheal. You could probably get off at least 6 with 0 wisdom gear.

[tsaC]

I played a human paladin pre-kunark for a while. I think I remember each heal spell taking 1 bubble of mana around level 20-30 (out of 5 total). At higher levels, it was probably similar for Gheal. You could probably get off at least 6 with 0 wisdom gear.

thanks for this great insight

shut the fuck up.

[Bkab]

thanks for this great insight

shut the fuck up.

[Tarwine]

We have code in place to do this, but I don't think its actually active.

Yeah the problem with this approach is when you are low on mana, the client lets you start casting the heal even if you don't have the mana for it. Then it tells you you got interupted or something, which sucks. Also, it means you have to meditate a lot more.

I heard a good solution awhile back where you nerf the mana pool with an invisible charm slot that's always equipped on hybrids. Not sure how hard that would be to code.

[Palemoon]

Sounds like bullshit to me. A level 4 necro casting his pet would probably take 40-50% of his mana bar or something. If your statement was true, a level 9 SK would have 3/8th's to 1/3rd the mana of a level 4 necro.
I could see hybrids having 1/2 the mana of an equal level caster, but not like 1/4th the mana of a caster 1/2 your level.

Sorry, but I don't post BS.

You on the other hand...

[Null]

I played a human paladin pre-kunark for a while. I think I remember each heal spell taking 1 bubble of mana around level 20-30 (out of 5 total). At higher levels, it was probably similar for Gheal. You could probably get off at least 6 with 0 wisdom gear.

Was this on the progression server?

[Authority]

Definitely bigger fish to fry than to bitch about this, and I don't mean <FB> Already looking at xp penalties.

[Pudge]

wow this mana thing really isnt that big of a deal.. in kunark sk/pal/ranger all get just as much mana from int as casters do..

Rangers, Paladins, and SKs now have mana equivalent to that of a pure caster with the same stats. This will give those hybrids a good deal more mana, regardless of their stats.

http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20000809.html

[Truth]

fuck your kunark bro the beginning of the end we keep it classic thx

[Pudge]

bards on the other hand, never get increased mana...

[Nuk3Afr1ca]

Was this on the progression server?

No, was EQ live, 1999. Unless someone else remembers differently, pretty sure paladins could get off between 5-6 "Healing" during levels 20-30 and probably 5-6 Gheals at 50.

[Nuk3Afr1ca]

How Cast see's himself:

http://oi42.tinypic.com/6olifk.jpg

How others see cast:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StlMdNcvCJo

[Lasher]

No, was EQ live, 1999. Unless someone else remembers differently, pretty sure paladins could get off between 5-6 "Healing" during levels 20-30 and probably 5-6 Gheals at 50.

Nah dude no chance in hell anyone remembering differently. Your 5-6 is exactly spot on

[Tenudil]

They probably have too many hp's and their spells are too cheap to begin with too :P

http://www.thesteelwarrior.org/forum/showthread.php?t=3400

Here's the list of major boosts to knight abilities since December of 99, as least as well as I can remember them. It's been a long time, so my order and timing compared to expansions is no longer reliable, but I'll try anyway.

Pre-Kunark:
-Knight HP is given a boost to bring us to a level between that of rogues/rangers and warriors. Previously, a naked level 50 rogue would have more HP than a knight. He still out tanks us, though.

Kunark:
-SK Lifetap progression is altered, so that the level 60 tap is 338 HP, rather than 150.

-Harm touch is given a damage boost post 40, and moved to the lifetap resist table. HT has ever since remained in relatively close
proximity to a high end wizard nuke.

-LOH is given a serious boost in damage healed, approximately doubling it.

-Hybrid mana pools are -greatly- enhanced. First, our mana-per-stat-per-level is set equal to casters, removing the nine level penalty. Second, our spells are set to cost the listed mana cost, not twice it, and in the case of the SK's lifetaps, three times it.

Velious:

-Hybrid /discs are introduced. Rangers and bards win big. Knights don't get much.

-Knight defensive caps are raised from 225 to 252. We can finally out mitigate, but not out dodge, a rogue. Warriors still out dodge, out parry, out riposte, and flat out out avoid and out mitigate us. This is as it should be.

-The Great Two Hander Change. This is described above, but the -real- bonus is a seperate, nearly concurrent change.

-Hybrids are flat out given detrimental spell haste on all dots, stuns, DDs, taps, snares, etc with a casting time of 3.1 seconds or greater, not including items. Further, the act of casting a spell no longer causes 'next melee attack' timer to restart. Previously, wielding a 45 delay weapon meant I would swing 4.5 seconds after my last swing, or 4.5 seconds after finishing my last cast. Now, it means I will swing 4.5 seconds after my last swing, unless I am casting at this time, in which case I will swing immediately after the cast is complete. The timer then starts again at 4.5 seconds. This means that I can cast 'between' melee attacks.

[Toomuch]

Is this to say that "joust-casting" isn't classic, and wasn't introduced until Velious?

[Pudge]

-Hybrids are flat out given detrimental spell haste on all dots, stuns, DDs, taps, snares, etc with a casting time of 3.1 seconds or greater, not including items. Further, the act of casting a spell no longer causes 'next melee attack' timer to restart. Previously, wielding a 45 delay weapon meant I would swing 4.5 seconds after my last swing, or 4.5 seconds after finishing my last cast. Now, it means I will swing 4.5 seconds after my last swing, unless I am casting at this time, in which case I will swing immediately after the cast is complete. The timer then starts again at 4.5 seconds. This means that I can cast 'between' melee attacks.

this is wrong. that change just allowed you to keep auto-attack on while you were casting a spell. your "swing" would attempt while you were casting, if the timer was up. (ex: swing, begin casting 5 sec spell, 4.5 seconds later attempt to swing while casting spell so nothing happens, spell casts, 4.0 seconds later swing again)

the change just made it so if you left auto-attack on, then you would "save" your next swing attempt till the casting was finished

[Palemoon]

-Hybrid mana pools are -greatly- enhanced. First, our mana-per-stat-per-level is set equal to casters, removing the nine level penalty. Second, our spells are set to cost the listed mana cost, not twice it, and in the case of the SK's lifetaps, three times it.


Looks like my memory with my troll SK back in 1999 was crystal clear.

[Tenudil]

this is wrong. that change just allowed you to keep auto-attack on while you were casting a spell. your "swing" would attempt while you were casting, if the timer was up. (ex: swing, begin casting 5 sec spell, 4.5 seconds later attempt to swing while casting spell so nothing happens, spell casts, 4.0 seconds later swing again)

the change just made it so if you left auto-attack on, then you would "save" your next swing attempt till the casting was finished

I didn't play a hybrid then so i can't verify either way, I could see how you might be correct but even so it would still be a significant buff not having to time every spell and turn attack on and off, and the patch notes say differently.

http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20010109.html

Melee attack timers will no longer be reset when a SK, Paladin, or Ranger cast a spell. Previously these classes had to wait a full attack delay after casting before they would attack via melee again.

[Knuckle]

Rangers, Paladins, and SKs now have mana equivalent to that of a pure caster with the same stats. This will give those hybrids a good deal more mana, regardless of their stats.
If this wasnt in untill kunark lets make it right.

[Truth]

server shouldn't be coded for pre-kunark

[gloinz]

server shouldn't be coded for pre-kunark

ya to much work to change it back when we are gonna b in kunark in like 3 months

everyone get off pallys nuts

[Knuckle]

Agreed. Give all warrior races stun kick

[juicedsixfo]

Agreed. Give all warrior races stun kick

I don't think anyone objects to this

[Smedy]

lets give all races hide to.

fucking idiots

NOT CLASSIC

[Peppers]

Rangers, Paladins, and SKs now have mana equivalent to that of a pure caster with the same stats.

So? Obama a commie and you are worried about this?

[Envious]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StlMdNcvCJo

I still cant understand 90% of this fucking song.

[Lovely]

THAT'S IT IM ROLLING OGRE PALADIN

[Envious]

And just because.

http://youtu.be/7ADgCeYJMN4

[Not_Kazowi]

Just make hybrid mana pools right, that's all. Everyone calm your dicks

[Lulz Sect]

http://i.imgur.com/TqpSx.jpg

[Smedy]

http://i.imgur.com/TqpSx.jpg

brilliant

[gloinz]

Just make hybrid mana pools right, that's all. Everyone calm your dicks

no u

[Valthar]

The mana pool on vztz was just insane. Fun times.

I remember being out of mana all the damn time back during classic. Hell i was a human sk that put all his points into int(lol) Seemed like I had a good bit more mana than most of the ogres/trolls I spoke with though.

[Greenkrak]

http://i.imgur.com/TqpSx.jpg

hahahaha