Remember how people referred to VZTZ as "caster's paradise"?

[Nuk3Afr1ca]

VZTZ - CC spam was everywhere but nukes fully resisted a lot against 120ish FR during classic on this server. The server was referred to as "Caster's paradise".

New P1999 PvP non-legit resists - the resist abomination setup on here has 100ish resists doing basically nothing and the same amount of CC spam as VZTZ. So casters have been upgraded from the server already known as "caster's paradise".

Way to make playing pure melee completely pointless unless you walk around in a zerg guild? On EQ live during this era, casters were already better at ganking, now they receive damage and crowd control upgrades on top of that?

The reason I say this, is because wizard PvP is pathetic. You can be the worst player on earth like that girl "Stormy" (I guess it was a girl), on VZTZ and still get kills on people just by showing up and spamming ice comet.

Can you kill lots of people by being a horrible player and playing a warrior, rogue, or monk? No, you can't. Better players will out joust you, you'll die, and they'll be at 100% hp.

It seems like people have gone out of their way to make the most primitive, least fun, and least skilled forms of PvP the most viable option on this server. If Lovely played a melee instead of a wizard, he would probably have only 1 kill against an AFK player instead of dozens of free, welfare, ice comet kills.

[gloinz]

thats boxlife pal us paladins never get the kills but we sure as hell never die naw mean

[Combobreaker]

Gloinz is a paladin...?

[lethdar]

VZTZ - casters paradise*!!!!!!!!

*except that casters were decimated by the greatly more overpowered melee and melee hit code, predetermining almost any battle to be won by the side with an excess of melee, even in classic, across all versions of the box.

[minakto]

pro players still come out on top regardless of curve, if shitty wiz like lovely gets 10 kills a pro will get 100

[Zalaerian]

http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/8022/15ow60w.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/577/15ow60w.jpg/)

[Nuk3Afr1ca]

VZTZ - casters paradise*!!!!!!!!

*except that casters were decimated by the greatly more overpowered melee and melee hit code, predetermining almost any battle to be won by the side with an excess of melee, even in class, across all versions of the box.

All you're doing is describing large, guild vs guild fights in tiny indoor areas like the entrance to permafrost for contesting Vox. Of course melee are better at fighting in small inside areas while defending a fixed position. Contesting Fear is the exact opposite. Casters are still better at getting easy, free kills all other times.

Melee damage is also going to be even less than VZTZ. Strength didn't do anything on VZTZ and everyone did the equivalent of having permanent 200 strength (I did the math for it when I played there). Then in Kunark, they did higher than normal damage there. So it will be less damage during both eras.

Bottom line is, casters are being upgraded from their "caster's paradise" status on VZTZ, and melee are actually going to be worse.

[Lasher]

Sounds like you are getting your excuses lined up

[Mardur]

Wehrmacht is setting himself up for when he sucks on this box he can just blame Null's resist system and not take any blame for being terrible.

"YOU PKED ME BECAUSE NULL SABOTAGED THE BOX!!!11"

[Amuk]

I don't understand the logic that people can just show up and ice comet, it should be doing damage... and just showing up and casting lures in kunark etc etc just showing up and e-bolting.

Melee arn't that hard to play and having an easier chance to snare/root people effects all classes.

I agree that root/snare should be like 95% but you just go off on these retard rants about melee vs casters and shit it's pretty funny.

[Nuk3Afr1ca]

Sounds like you are getting your excuses lined up

Just pointing out how the server is being designed around the least skilled, and worst forms of PvP. Having zergs of noobs spamming ice comet then posting screen shots.

I'm sure someone will whine until mages are made equally as powerful or more so than wizards, then we can have the exact same crap as VZTZ again. Groups of 6 mages walking around and all other classes redundant except for contesting Vox/Hate/whatever.

[Lasher]

Time for wehrmact to make a new account

[Cymbal]

heh i agree with the poster

server gonna flop

good fights will be few and far between

but we shall see i guess

[Truth]

Casters had it much easier on VZTZ than here. Right clicking spell gems and such, things that add convenience and make the game more enjoyable, get removed by whiners because it takes so much "skill" to organize a spellbook pals. Cast times are also retardedly longer here compared to the spellfile from VZTZ, my necros dots are like 4/6+ seconds instead of 3s. My shadowstep definitely has a longer recast. Also being unable to duck casts is another big one that comes to mind.

It's classic, set in stone, we cant pick and choose, yadda yadda just pointing out some differences.

The resist system however is extremely generous for casters atm and everyones a critic and it changes by the hour. But when the first thing people are casting as openers on me is root and snare and shit, when they see me sporting GM summoned beta gears I'm never going to acquire on live, there is something wrong. Being chain snared by bads isn't fun in group pvps where its not always easily pellable and often a death sentence. Then you get unfullresistable nukes and partial lifetaps, it really is an abomination :(...

VZTZ - casters paradise*!!!!!!!!

*except that casters were decimated by the greatly more overpowered melee and melee hit code, predetermining almost any battle to be won by the side with an excess of melee, even in classic, across all versions of the box.

Bit of a hyperbole there I think. Didn't play 3.0 but casters definitely dominated the first two at least pre-kunark. The leaderboard on 2.0 was pretty much all mages. Maybe the melee code made their pets leeter too, but I mean the only non-casters on the thing were people in zerg guilds good at KS'ing YT glory from the mages like Xantille.

[Darwoth]

the resists in terms of damage are near identical to classic.

with the latest patch bumping up stun resists and what not those appear to be a lot closer as well, don't really see the issue at this point.

seems like the majority of the bitching is coming from people who have either never played classic eq (or eq at all outside of a random emulator with who knows what changes) and wanted to play a melee or people who played a melee with the support of a large guild in the velious timeframe and expected to be as powerful in classic.

[Lasher]

Every class has its area to shine, melee is usually indoor and that just happens to be where most of the good stuff is. Caster is outdoor with hills where almost nothing important is

[Nuk3Afr1ca]

the resists in terms of damage are near identical to classic.

I'm not going into the damage of the spells that do land, but 99% of the people on this forum remember the full resist rate increasing exponentially with higher resists and not being a static 5%.

That's what was mentioned on the Graffe wizard post from 2000 that I dug up too about PvP on TZ also.

I'm not on a crusade to nerf caster damage, I think CC spells are 10x worse no matter what their damage is. It's just that these factors all add together to make a giant flop.

[Dfn]

Having played a Wizard, Necro, Monk (daefuin), and Rogue (Whyte) across most variations of the VZTZ box, I can confirm that it was indeed NOT a caster's paradise. Melee's did absolutely retarded damage with non-existant miss rates.

The only time casters were ever on top was early boxes in classic - and even then it was shortlived. During all the kunark and velioua boxes melee dominance was completely out of hand - even in outdoor zones. Sure, casters could hit and run some - but group fights and even small skirmishes were decided by geared melee. Ever get 1 rounded by a warrior?

Please stop posting.

[Nuk3Afr1ca]

Having played a Wizard, Necro, Monk, and Rogue across most variations of the VZTZ box, I can confirm that it was indeed NOT a caster's paradise. Melee's did absolutely retarded damage with non-existant miss rates.

The only time casters were ever on top was early boxes in classic - and even then it was shortlived. During all the kunark and velioua boxes melee dominance was completely out of hand - even in outdoor zones.

Please stop posting.

Nobody here is talking about Kunark and Velious. VZTZ was a poorly put together server where rogues double backstabbed for 1000 damage EVERY round during Kunark.

If you're new to the server and weren't a high end PvP figure pre-kunark on VZTZ, you should not be posting here. The server was completely different in other eras. It had different people working on it then too.

[Dfn]

Nobody here is talking about Kunark and Velious. VZTZ was a poorly put together server where rogues double backstabbed for 1000 damage EVERY round during Kunark.

If you're new to the server and weren't a high end PvP figure pre-kunark on VZTZ, you should not be posting here. The server was completely different in other eras. It had different people working on it then too.

You were a nobody on VZTZ. I played on most incarnations of the box, and if you feel the need to check hop over to the vztz forums (if they're still up) and see my Oct. 2007 registration.

And considering the server used the same address, the same name, and had much of the same staff - then it would be appropriate to indicate the era of the server instead of saying "VZTZ" and claiming one short time period as how the server was operated through its entirety.

[Lasher]

Casters raped in 1v1-3v3, bigger battles was decided by melee even in classic. 2.0 fisnbait was mostly casters that had success at first but lost in the long run. Remember FB failing on vox 3 times uncontested because they had no bashers

[Darwoth]

I'm not going into the damage of the spells that do land, but 99% of the people on this forum remember the full resist rate increasing exponentially with higher resists and not being a static 5%.

That's what was mentioned on the Graffe wizard post from 2000 that I dug up too about PvP on TZ also.

I'm not on a crusade to nerf caster damage, I think CC spells are 10x worse no matter what their damage is. It's just that these factors all add together to make a giant flop.

cc spells from what i can tell are not that far off from classic at this juncture from the last patch, instead of 100 mr shitcanning almost everything it just needs 120 - 130, you could snare people at 120ish mr on classic eq also, just took a shitload of tries and as such nobody bothered. i think the tactics of gimps spamming snares and so on here is more of an evolution of zerg tactics than the resist system itself as you still resist the majority albeit less than classic, main difference is back in the day people did not run around 6 deep lameing everyone with a pair of dedicated snare spammers, as such nobody ever got snared.

as for damage i remember lots of full resists to, i am just able to differentiate between the different spells. druid, mage, shaman and wizard nukes simply did not red out beyond the default. all mr nukes did, all dual effect nukes did (all or nothing), all cc did (all or nothing), all dots that were not unresistable (all or nothing) the handful of people disputing my recollection are generally the biggest idiots on these boards that i would not trust if they told me water was wet, the others are simply mistaken and dont know what their talking about. particularly those that chime in with "yeah man, my rogue totally resisted shit all the time bro" ie someone that does not know their ass from a hole in the ground in terms of what spells did what.

anyhow prior to the last patch stuns were retarded, seems that has been addressed and brought in line with root/snare now so what everybody was asking for was done and yet the lamentations continue. go figure.

[Mrcurtloco]

melee was the best ive ever seen on a emu that was geard for "classic pvp"

hit box: huge

miss rate: didnt happen

bash/kick stun always hit

to say "casters paradise" was vztz isnt even close

[Nuk3Afr1ca]

melee was the best ive ever seen on a emu that was geard for "classic pvp"

hit box: huge

miss rate: didnt happen

bash/kick stun always hit

to say "casters paradise" was vztz isnt even close

You do realize you're listing things you say made melee "not bad" as things that won't even be on this server? lol

Caster damage is also higher than VZTZ and the same CC spam is still there.

[Mrcurtloco]

You do realize you're listing things you say made melee "not bad" as things that won't even be on this server? lol

Caster damage is also higher than VZTZ and the same CC spam is still there.

well my cc testing hasnt been good at all and this is at lvl 13 druid agaisnt less than 40 mr

I hear partials are better, but I havnt seen it yet

my point was vztz was "casters paradise"..........not even close broham

[Booglie]

did you even play on vztz?
you do realise that for most of 1.0 box there were more monks or warriors logged in at any given time than all the int casters put together? and it was only close because of all the boxed enchanters...
it was such a caster's paradise that there were give or take a half dozen players who actually played an int caster as their main toon...

[Lovely]

Nukeafrica why are you even posting? Last patch is in you're suppose to quit now.

Also big thanks for mentioning Wizards a class not even close to be considered top tier and my name. I must have left a big impression with my amazing skillz that killz

[Nuk3Afr1ca]

you do realise that for most of 1.0 box there were more monks or warriors logged in at any given time

Dude, don't even tell me some retarded stories about box 1.0. That's when Daxum ran the server and put in all this custom garbage like warriors doing crippling blows for 1000 damage with 30dmg 2handers plus giving them vastly increased crit rate. Monks flying kicked for what? 300+ damage?

Just because Daxum was high on drugs and made a bunch of illogical changes for a small period of time and all the kiddies flocked to those classes, means absolutely nothing in the big picture.

The Heresy vs Fish Bait time period, pre-kunark, is really the only thing valid in comparing VZTZ to this server. None of that Daxum stuff was in game then.

Your post was one of the most misleading posts of all time in relation to class balance.

[Silikten]

did you even play on vztz?
you do realise that for most of 1.0 box there were more monks or warriors logged in at any given time than all the int casters put together? and it was only close because of all the boxed enchanters...
it was such a caster's paradise that there were give or take a half dozen players who actually played an int caster as their main toon...

Friedchicken and Booglie for life <3 cdok 4tw

[Lovely]

After the reading the comments here the thread should be changed to Remember how people referred to VZTZ as "Melee's paradise"?

[Lovely]

Nukeafrica you always spam how you want it to b 100% Classic, you realize that nukes did 100% damage back then rite?

[Nuk3Afr1ca]

Nukeafrica you always spam how you want it to b 100% Classic, you realize that nukes did 100% damage back then rite?

If you want to make all the resists classic then that's fine with me. I don't think many people would be happy with ice comet landing for 1120 damage every time against 100CR.

[Lovely]

If you want to make all the resists classic then that's fine with me. I don't think many people would be happy with ice comet landing for 1120 damage every time against 100CR.

Exactly and that's why we have a modified system. I rest my case. Now stop crying about it.

[Nuk3Afr1ca]

Exactly and that's why we have a modified system. I rest my case. Now stop crying about it.

No, you can't backtrack now, classic resists, no CC spells, and 100% damage it is.

[Mrcurtloco]

No, you can't backtrack now, classic resists, no CC spells, and 100% damage it is.

you now have a new name: negro Jones

[Booglie]

Dude, don't even tell me some retarded stories about box 1.0. That's when Daxum ran the server and put in all this custom garbage like warriors doing crippling blows for 1000 damage with 30dmg 2handers plus giving them vastly increased crit rate. Monks flying kicked for what? 300+ damage?

Just because Daxum was high on drugs and made a bunch of illogical changes for a small period of time and all the kiddies flocked to those classes, means absolutely nothing in the big picture.

The Heresy vs Fish Bait time period, pre-kunark, is really the only thing valid in comparing VZTZ to this server. None of that Daxum stuff was in game then.

Your post was one of the most misleading posts of all time in relation to class balance.


So wait a minute... my post was misleading because it refers to long periods of the boxes life, but really you only want to discuss about a 2 month period of the garage boxes history post a server wipe... now i get it... how could i have been so confused...

and post the first major wipe, when the server was pdm vs heresy, pre most hacking and item duping, before voidd took over was the best times on the box imo. Little daxum content at that point, and lots of good times.
It also featured me, Nova, Sanlaven, and... ummm... maybe knox and jabober as regular int casters? A bit later friedchicken joined in the anti-melee fun :)
Good times.

[Mrcurtloco]

So wait a minute... my post was misleading because it refers to long periods of the boxes life, but really you only want to discuss about a 2 month period of the garage boxes history post a server wipe... now i get it... how could i have been so confused...

and post the first major wipe, when the server was pdm vs heresy, pre most hacking and item duping, before voidd took over was the best times on the box imo. Little daxum content at that point, and lots of good times.
It also featured me, Nova, Sanlaven, and... ummm... maybe knox and jabober as regular int casters? A bit later friedchicken joined in the anti-melee fun :)
Good times.


The best geard necro on the server of vztz has no idea what he is talkin about

.....oh wait he does

[Booglie]

The best geard necro on the server of vztz has no idea what he is talkin about

.....oh wait he does

best geared necro was like being the smartest retard on vztz.

can you think of another necro main who stuck around for more than a few weeks back in that era? tricky came and went... ummm.... ya, thats about the end of my list.

caster's paradise ya'll!

[Mrcurtloco]

best geared necro was like being the smartest retard on vztz.

can you think of another necro main who stuck around for more than a few weeks back in that era? tricky came and went... ummm.... ya, thats about the end of my list.

caster's paradise ya'll!

truth not alot of necros, even though they laid fools down

my point was negro Jones has alot less idea of what happend in vztz then either of us

[Truth]

page 4 sniper

[Booglie]

aye, he doesn't seem to have much of a clue.
though to be fair i didnt play post the duping wipe, in that small post wipe pre kunark era he is talking about. maybe for a brief period it was a radically different server and for some reason in that brief window they reworked all of the server's mechanics for shits and giggles... or maybe its just because it was post wipe and everyone was naked again which is when casters as a group tend to be most dangerous... who knows...

[Truth]

You're all wrong.

Top 30 Classes Breakdown

17 Casters (7 Mages, 3 Clerics, 2 Necros, 2 Wiz, 1 Shaman, 2 Druid) [11int+6wis]
6 Hybrids (3 SKs, 2 Rangers, 1 Paladin)
6 Melees (3 Monks, 3 Warriors, 0 Rogues)

(Source: VZ/TZ 2.0 Leaderboard Pre-Kunark http://www.project1999.org/forums/showpost.php?p=299339&postcount=77)

Real melee paradise there bros. Mages make up 50% of the top10 btw.

PS Somewhere I counted wrong and missed 1 and am lazy but this is still an accurate representation margin of error +/- 1.

[Mrcurtloco]

page 4 sniper

from 4.0 classic? mage time frame?

[Nuk3Afr1ca]

Told you this Booglie guy was smoking crack. The only pure melee that even made the list were perma grouped 24/7 with healer servants like Lasher following them around. They never soloed. Most of their kills were from 30vs30 guild fights or attacking perma-immobilized targets 6vs1 too. It was caster's paradise.

As a side note, there's another snapshot of leaderboard where I'm beating Knuckle and in 7th place or so, so this leaderboard list sucks.

[Booglie]

i suppose it doesnt matter how often and explicitly i lay it out, but what you're refering to is a small portion of the garage boxes life, and i have no idea what that leader board is based on. was it points based on group based kills? must have been with the clerics on the list. until epics came out, there were virtually no mages on the box... and with the epic pet that could run at selos speed after a target while the mages ran in the opposite direction, mages pwned with those server mechanics. the pet used the same melee mechanics as the rest of the server, which made it some what like a live warrior on steroids with npc ability to follow you around...

[Darwoth]

the more i hear about vztz the more glad i am i never wasted time on it, selo mage pets, warriors hitting for 1800, rangers shooting arrows for 400+, rogues double backstabbing for 1k and on and on.

probably the most retarded shitheap i have ever heard of, no wonder there are so many dumbshits from that server making stupid suggestions.

[Truth]

For that leaderboard, points were distributed between the group. Each player dropped a static 6 points. If melees were the big bad powerhouses, they would have definitely made a larger portion of the final results.

@Darwoth: those numbers are hyperbole, it was never that crazy. My rogue did like 2-300s and doubled maybe half the time. Wars did get big cripplings though but I don't have parses for accurate figures.

[Mrcurtloco]

Told you this Booglie guy was smoking crack. The only pure melee that even made the list were perma grouped 24/7 with healer servants like Lasher following them around. They never soloed. Most of their kills were from 30vs30 guild fights or attacking perma-immobilized targets 6vs1 too. It was caster's paradise.

As a side note, there's another snapshot of leaderboard where I'm beating Knuckle and in 7th place or so, so this leaderboard list sucks.

negro Jones non of holo or heresy ever ran solo they are way to pussy to do that the hole leader board is people that ran in packs kill shot means nothing, yes mages get kill shots in group pvp pets, nukes double odds

[Mrcurtloco]

For that leaderboard, points were distributed between the group. Each player dropped 6 points. If melees were the big bad powerhouses, they would have definitely made a larger portion of the final results.

naez stop trollin

[Darwoth]

from an objective point of view does not make much sense to base a "whos class is stronger" argument off of a leaderboard consisting of zergs running around shitting on people.

[mostbitter]

i certainly don't remember it being kind to casters at all. I do remember that EVERY class could land critical hits and that I often took melee hits for over 200 damage and i remember rangers bowing me down before i could get in range to cast spells but i guess thats all biased towards casters? If anything mages where pretty over powered because the melee hit rate was fubar and the pets could quad hit but again that is a melee thing

[Lovely]

LOL did the two top guilds on that server merge for a guild here on red99? Wow, they really are scared little bitches. Wow I'm so amused by this LOLOLOL. I can never take anything a Holocaust member say serious again.

HAHAHA wow.. really wow. So afraid of competition and real PVP that they are trying to recruit half the server. They keep saying they are good yet they try to recruit everyone that's a threat to them LOL.

Holocaust = Most pathetic guild on red99. Also known cheaters, doesn't get better then that.

I'm still amazed LOL

[Truth]

from an objective point of view does not make much sense to base a "whos class is stronger" argument off of a leaderboard consisting of zergs running around shitting on people.

It was more everyone arguing that melee groups completely shut shit down in group/zerg PvP. If it were true, the results wouldn't be as skewed in favour of casters.

[Mrcurtloco]

It was more everyone arguing that melee groups completely shut shit down in group/zerg PvP. If it were true, the results wouldn't be as skewed in favour of casters.

naez stop trollin you didnt play when kaz was clickin uber war mode and hitting for 800 for 1 min and never missing, ask him

[Truth]

Yea but that's in Kunark, henceforth Melee's Revenge.

[mostbitter]

hey he posted a leader board posted by solid from some random time which probably doesnt even coexist with any time frame being discussed here show some respect solid and naez are both trust worthy fellows

[Truth]

People with functioning brains can figure it out.

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/71/miami_heat-haters_gonna_hate.jpg

[mostbitter]

fibbers gon fib

[Mrcurtloco]

Yea but that's in Kunark, henceforth Melee's Revenge.

hit box is all you have to say and naez you never ever ever ever played a melee

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmwVcIFrgw8

I could hit you from qeynos when your at your gram mamas house hit box for the win

[Truth]

hit box is all you have to say and naez you never ever ever ever played a melee

I played a melee in Kunark. Rogue was supposedly OP but I didn't like it. Re-rolled at like level 57 to SK then box got zonecmd'd.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTZQCQxJC5o

Highlights:

Lasher running away from the main action for 2 hours before stopping to heal and eating my dagger
I get rooted with 174MR and fail to channel pumice before dying, partly the cause of my rage-reroll

[Nuk3Afr1ca]

LOL did the two top guilds on that server merge for a guild here on red99?

This part confused me as much as you.

Then you got all these little coat tail riders like Bkab from Pandemonium and others trying to join the zerg as well because they have no hope of surviving on the server without being in a full group 24/7 fighting people 6vs1.

The people attempting to join the zerg after they already merged are worse than whoever put this idea together of merging in the first place.

[Mrcurtloco]

nice naez you only hit 86% of the time

and you didnt toggle atk on and off, bad form or it would of been better but thanx

for proving me right

[Truth]

nice naez you only hit 86% of the time

and you didnt toggle atk on and off, bad form or it would of been better but thanx

for proving me right

I did too. You're taking 30 seconds in the middle out of context, sometimes I get distracted by Titanuk's sexy voice.

I was probably tunnel visioned into landing backstabs.

[Mrcurtloco]

Tity's voice: you a bad motha , shut yo mouth!

it is sexy

[Nirgon]

VZTZ - casters paradise*!!!!!!!!

*except that casters were decimated by the greatly more overpowered melee and melee hit code, predetermining almost any battle to be won by the side with an excess of melee, even in classic, across all versions of the box.

Lethdar makes post -> vztz newbs stfu.

[Nirgon]

Casters raped in 1v1-3v3, bigger battles was decided by melee even in classic. 2.0 fisnbait was mostly casters that had success at first but lost in the long run. Remember FB failing on vox 3 times uncontested because they had no bashers

99% sure you shouldn't be able to bash Lady Vox?